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Revision as of 02:29, 10 December 2013 editTuckerresearch (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users8,137 edits →Re Senate gerrymandering quote: add a smidge← Previous edit Revision as of 02:29, 10 December 2013 edit undoTuckerresearch (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users8,137 editsm →Re Senate gerrymandering quote: moveNext edit →
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:But what I find much more disconcerting is your attitude and you're reasoning. Now, don't get me wrong, I think what you're doing ], but your condescension: "Can we not do this?" Or your POV judgment: "This is frankly ridiculous." Your dismissal of an error: "The man made a trivial misstatement." (You justify by asking: "Maybe he just said 'Senate' when he meant 'House'" tells me you didn't even look at what he said, because he ''meant'' Senate.) I ask, do you (and our fellow editors) jump to give the benefit of the doubt to Sarah Palin or George W. Bush or Glenn Beck when they "misspeak"? (I doubt it.) Their pages and subpages are riddled with references to such "trivial misstatement." Then, the fact you've never heard of ] ("a web-based publication and a print magazine with a conservative viewpoint") is discomfiting. I'm a conservative, but I've heard of ], '']'', '']'', ], and the like. Articles and entries from these opinion sites are usually considered reliable sources, while similar citations to conservative sites like Townhall.com, ], or ] are usually attacked and removed. (For instance, Media Matters and the Media Research Center both do essentially the same thing, critique media coverage, from the left and the right respectively. Guess which one is mentioned more and cited on Misplaced Pages....) :But what I find much more disconcerting is your attitude and you're reasoning. Now, don't get me wrong, I think what you're doing ], but your condescension: "Can we not do this?" Or your POV judgment: "This is frankly ridiculous." Your dismissal of an error: "The man made a trivial misstatement." (You justify by asking: "Maybe he just said 'Senate' when he meant 'House'" tells me you didn't even look at what he said, because he ''meant'' Senate.) I ask, do you (and our fellow editors) jump to give the benefit of the doubt to Sarah Palin or George W. Bush or Glenn Beck when they "misspeak"? (I doubt it.) Their pages and subpages are riddled with references to such "trivial misstatement." Then, the fact you've never heard of ] ("a web-based publication and a print magazine with a conservative viewpoint") is discomfiting. I'm a conservative, but I've heard of ], '']'', '']'', ], and the like. Articles and entries from these opinion sites are usually considered reliable sources, while similar citations to conservative sites like Townhall.com, ], or ] are usually attacked and removed. (For instance, Media Matters and the Media Research Center both do essentially the same thing, critique media coverage, from the left and the right respectively. Guess which one is mentioned more and cited on Misplaced Pages....)


:So, kudos for removing the offending sentence. Leave it out. But your condescension, derisiveness, and dismissive attitude I think we can do without. (And, yes, yes, I freely admit my statements here are the perfect example of ]... I plead guilty. And, I promise this isn't an attack on ''you'', it's pent up mental torment that Misplaced Pages, an institution I love, has an inherent institutional bias towards liberalism. I try so hard to see all sides—and edit accordingly—of issues and it pains me when I believe others don't.) ] (]) 02:15, 10 December 2013 (UTC) :So, kudos for removing the offending sentence. Leave it out. But your condescension, derisiveness, and dismissive attitude I think we can do without. (And, yes, yes, I freely admit my statements here are the perfect example of ]... I plead guilty. And, I promise this isn't an attack on ''you'', it's pent up mental torment that Misplaced Pages, an institution I love, has an inherent institutional bias towards liberalism. I try so hard to see all sides of issues—and edit accordingly—and it pains me when I believe others don't.) ] (]) 02:15, 10 December 2013 (UTC)


::Oh, and PS: (1) I remember your name from the "should we mention Touré's real name" battle royale! And (2) I've never seen {{ xt }} before. Thanks for showing me a new one. ] (]) 02:23, 10 December 2013 (UTC) ::Oh, and PS: (1) I remember your name from the "should we mention Touré's real name" battle royale! And (2) I've never seen {{ xt }} before. Thanks for showing me a new one. ] (]) 02:23, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

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Re Senate gerrymandering quote

At some point, an editor had added this material:

On November 14, 2013, Touré mistakenly remarked that United States Senate seats were influenced by gerrymandering.

and it's ref'd here: Pavlich, Katie (2013-11-15). "MSNBC Host Explains the Non-Existent Gerrymandering of Senate Seats". Townhall.com. Retrieved 2013-11-17. An anon IP removed it (quite properly in my view), but another editor restored it, so here we are.

Can we not do this? This is frankly ridiculous. The man made a trivial misstatement. The article is on Townhall.com which I've never heard of and which I doubt is a highly reliable source; the article starts off "MSNBC's genius of a host" which indicates an attack piece, which is their right to do and maybe they're right but does not improve my inclination to view them as a highly reliable neutral source able and willing to report the quote properly and in context. Maybe he just said "Senate" when he meant "House", who knows. I know I don't trust Townhall.com to give him a reasonable break if that's what happened.

Its derogatory trivia and the only reason to include the material is to make the subject look stupid. I'm entirely agnostic on the matter of whether he is stupid or not (I know very little about him), but even if he is it's not our job to push points like this. This is a BLP violation so I've reverted again on those grounds. Editors who want to include the material are invite to make their case here. Herostratus (talk) 23:37, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

¡Hola Herostratus! If you look at the revision history for Touré you'll note my edit of Nov. 17 has the history of "added source for removed bit - but it might be a tad trivial (but, I've seen similar things on other pages)." So I'm fine with your removal of the sentence and its source. I think it is far more a violation of WP:NOTRIVIA than WP:BLP. I mean, flattering or not, he did say it, and it was incorrect. So I agree when you call it "trivia," but I disagree when you call it "derogatory trivia" and "a BLP violation." (Mere derogatoriness—if I may coin a word—doesn't violate BLP.)
But what I find much more disconcerting is your attitude and you're reasoning. Now, don't get me wrong, I think what you're doing is in good faith, but your condescension: "Can we not do this?" Or your POV judgment: "This is frankly ridiculous." Your dismissal of an error: "The man made a trivial misstatement." (You justify by asking: "Maybe he just said 'Senate' when he meant 'House'" tells me you didn't even look at what he said, because he meant Senate.) I ask, do you (and our fellow editors) jump to give the benefit of the doubt to Sarah Palin or George W. Bush or Glenn Beck when they "misspeak"? (I doubt it.) Their pages and subpages are riddled with references to such "trivial misstatement." Then, the fact you've never heard of Townhall.com ("a web-based publication and a print magazine with a conservative viewpoint") is discomfiting. I'm a conservative, but I've heard of ThinkProgress, The Huffington Post, Daily Kos, Media Matters, and the like. Articles and entries from these opinion sites are usually considered reliable sources, while similar citations to conservative sites like Townhall.com, Breitbart.com, or Media Research Center are usually attacked and removed. (For instance, Media Matters and the Media Research Center both do essentially the same thing, critique media coverage, from the left and the right respectively. Guess which one is mentioned more and cited on Misplaced Pages....)
So, kudos for removing the offending sentence. Leave it out. But your condescension, derisiveness, and dismissive attitude I think we can do without. (And, yes, yes, I freely admit my statements here are the perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black... I plead guilty. And, I promise this isn't an attack on you, it's pent up mental torment that Misplaced Pages, an institution I love, has an inherent institutional bias towards liberalism. I try so hard to see all sides of issues—and edit accordingly—and it pains me when I believe others don't.) TuckerResearch (talk) 02:15, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
Oh, and PS: (1) I remember your name from the "should we mention Touré's real name" battle royale! And (2) I've never seen Example text before. Thanks for showing me a new one. TuckerResearch (talk) 02:23, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
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