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Revision as of 14:44, 11 December 2013

Sängerfest is currently a Music good article nominee. Nominated by — Maile (talk) at 21:14, 18 October 2013 (UTC) An editor has indicated a willingness to review the article in accordance with the good article criteria and will decide whether or not to list it as a good article. Comments are welcome from any editor who has not nominated or contributed significantly to this article. This review will be closed by the first reviewer. To add comments to this review, click discuss review and edit the page. Note: This was partially reviewed, but the reviewer stopped abruptly and the first review was never finished. North8000 is finishing it.

	Sängerfest was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result November 11, 2013 Good article nominee Not listed

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Title

Right next to the image which says Sängerfest, I would prefer that version, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:08, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Please clarify. "Right next to the image" differs from browser to browser. Are you suggesting you would prefer the article be moved to Sängerfest? I don't have a problem with that, if it adheres to WP guidelines. I did not initially create the article, so I'm neutral about that issue. I just don't want to trigger a move-and-move back war.— Maile (talk) 13:31, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

I also want to avoid moving back and forth. The first image that I see, File:Concertprogramm Berliner Saengerbund 1902.jpg, has "Sänger". The times that an umlaut wasn't shown properly are over, I believe, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:21, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

ps: see also Nord-Amerikanischer Sängerbund --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:24, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Then perhaps you would like to move the page. I have no objections.— Maile (talk) 15:16, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

I will wait a week and see if there are objections, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:51, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Week is more than over, but I changed my mind and will not move it while under review, and not if I am the only one who is irritated ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:15, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Gerda, I think you are correct in not moving this during GA Review. If you are waiting for more talk page feedback, I don't think it's going to happen. To clarify, August 1, 2010 is the last edit before I expanded it in Dec 2010. Others have tweaked it since that date, but nothing significant before I decided to reformat the citation style and nominate it for GA. Henrik's stats show few views. This will be your call. — Maile (talk) 18:49, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

• If it help you decides on the potential move, I have just added the category of Sängerfest to Commons, and am giving consideration to nominating this article at DYK after it passes GA. — Maile (talk) 14:01, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

If you also think it should be moved, you could do it yourself at the best time ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:21, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Saengerfest/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: North8000 (talk · contribs) 15:39, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

I am starting a review of this article. The previous review was dropped in progress. It appears that the best way to handle it is to start a new one as it is listed as not being under review. North8000 (talk) 15:39, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

But I plan to generally utilize or finish the previous review, not start over. North8000 (talk) 17:32, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Review discussions

First, regarding the larger amount of North American material, I think that the question was discussed and resolved in the previous partial review. In essence, the article is following what's in reasonably available sources. On top of that, it's quite plausible that festivals defined as being about a particular nationality/culture would occur more in places outside of the country that it is about. Just as in the USA we do not have festivals defined as being about "American music".

Next, my next question is more of an exploration than a critique. As possibly the most active editor in Misplaced Pages on folk music topics, I have a particular curiosity. The start of the main body of the article starts the type of music, at least at it's roots. The the article pretty quickly moves away from covering the music itself. If Saengerfest (back then / and or now) is substantially about particular types of music, (more specific than the broader "anything that involves singing in German") then that topic seems tantalizingly under-covered in the article. If the opposite is true (that they were and are mainly defined as a cultural event rather than specific types of music) than I would say that my "tantalizingly under-covered" comment doesn't apply. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 14:10, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

"tantalizingly under-covered". Well, if by that you mean the sangerfest as a cultural and musical heritage is something vastly under-covered in the English WP, I would agree. In particular, the specifics on the music itself. If someone had the sources and the time, the subject matter is worthy of FA (IMO). However, again, I dealt with on-line English-language sourcing, and no sources available to me at local libraries. Sourcing was rare-as-hen's-teeth you might say. I found it disappointing to find a teaser in that the sangerfest spread to other countries, but zero sourcing for activities anywhere but the early German events and the North American events. As stated in the article, it began as a tradition of German culture. When it hopped to pond to North America, it evolved, fused itself with the new culture, and became a form of civic entertainment. — Maile (talk) 14:37, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. BTW I meant to say tantalizingly under-covered and changed it. Resolved. North8000 (talk) 16:05, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

• Gallery of images added to the article. FYI — Maile (talk) 21:41, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

• Question for North8000 - It has been suggested on this talk page that the article eventually be moved to the more correct/common spelling of Sängerfest. I think that is probably a good idea. Would you suggest if it would be better to move it now before the GA review is done, or to wait until after the review? Or does it even make a difference? I plan to nominate this for DYK under Sängerfest. — Maile (talk) 22:32, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Based on the review work I did, the large amount of work in the previous review, and the quality of the article, I've already decided that this article is to pass. I've only been delaying it until I get the 15 minutes or so it will take to do all of the homework and leave some thoughts. I'll have it passed by tomorrow. I'd suggest waiting until then just to be safe against complications. North8000 (talk) 22:43, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

GA criteria final checklist

Well-written

• Meets this criteria. North8000 (talk) 13:39, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Factually accurate and verifiable

• Meets this criteria. North8000 (talk) 13:28, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Broad in its coverage

• Meets this criteria. North8000 (talk) 16:10, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without bias, giving due weight to each

• Meets this criteria. North8000 (talk)

Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute

• Meets this criteria North8000 (talk) 13:26, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Illustrated, if possible, by images

• Meets this requirement. Has 3 images. No non-free images, so no article-specific use rationales are required. North8000 (talk) 20:20, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
• (Update) Meets this requirement. Has 9 images. No non-free images, so no article-specific use rationales are required. North8000 (talk) 01:11, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Result

This passes as a Misplaced Pages Good Article. What a well written, informative article! If I had any advice for future development, it might be to expand on the type and role of it's early music. It looks like you may already have the sources to enable that. As possibly the most active Misplaced Pages editor on Folk Music, the "music to promote social change" mentioned in te article,, and of what we would now call in English folk music, has many parallels throughout history, and I had a frustrated please tell me more feeling when you just mentioned it without going into it. Ditto for more coverage of the music itself during it's beginnings. And so expansions there might be nice.

Congratulations! Nice work! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 01:20, 12 December 2013 (UTC) Reviewer

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