Talk:Belle Knox: Difference between revisions

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	*I also disagree with using the name stated in the articles. The problem is that none of those places have really said how they identified her. Without Knox herself or one of her family members identifying her, all we have is an alleged name. Some of the stuff I've seen as far as evidence go is fairly convincing, but there have been a lot of people making fake accounts for her so we can't guarantee that this is her name because it could easily be someone who created a fake account based upon something someone else said. It's extremely likely that the media outlets are all using information taken from one of the various anonymous forums or websites that decided to try to find and dox Knox. Those sites are not infallible and there have been incidents where even the best internet sleuths and trolls have gotten information wrong. Basically, we can't automatically assume that because it was printed somewhere in the news, that an identity is automatically that person. For example, the media ran with the idea that Ryan Lanza was the identity of the Sandy Hook shooter... only for it to be that it was his brother Adam, who had stolen his ID card. There are a lot of ways as to how someone can be mistaken for someone else, so until we have a more official confirmation, we shouldn't add Knox's suspected real name. That's just not how it works here. That Knox has been exceedingly careful to NOT release her own name in the media is something that we should also respect on here. ]] 22:33, 7 March 2014 (UTC)		*I also disagree with using the name stated in the articles. The problem is that none of those places have really said how they identified her. Without Knox herself or one of her family members identifying her, all we have is an alleged name. Some of the stuff I've seen as far as evidence go is fairly convincing, but there have been a lot of people making fake accounts for her so we can't guarantee that this is her name because it could easily be someone who created a fake account based upon something someone else said. It's extremely likely that the media outlets are all using information taken from one of the various anonymous forums or websites that decided to try to find and dox Knox. Those sites are not infallible and there have been incidents where even the best internet sleuths and trolls have gotten information wrong. Basically, we can't automatically assume that because it was printed somewhere in the news, that an identity is automatically that person. For example, the media ran with the idea that Ryan Lanza was the identity of the Sandy Hook shooter... only for it to be that it was his brother Adam, who had stolen his ID card. There are a lot of ways as to how someone can be mistaken for someone else, so until we have a more official confirmation, we shouldn't add Knox's suspected real name. That's just not how it works here. That Knox has been exceedingly careful to NOT release her own name in the media is something that we should also respect on here. ]] 22:33, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
	*I've removed someone's post that gives what '''the media''' is reporting her IRL name to be. Please do not post any assumptions about who you believe it to be. The media has very, very frequently gotten things wrong and until Knox herself has reported her name, '''do not''' post anything that you believe to be the real name. We need more than just someone online claiming that she is Sally Smith of Everytown, USA and we cannot go by what the news is reporting because again- they have gotten identities wrong. ]] 13:51, 8 March 2014 (UTC)		*I've removed someone's post that gives what '''the media''' is reporting her IRL name to be. Please do not post any assumptions about who you believe it to be. The media has very, very frequently gotten things wrong and until Knox herself has reported her name, '''do not''' post anything that you believe to be the real name. We need more than just someone online claiming that she is Sally Smith of Everytown, USA and we cannot go by what the news is reporting because again- they have gotten identities wrong. ]] 13:51, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
			::The origin of all the stories proclaiming her real name seems to be . Incidentally, while I realize ] is important and everything, but it seems like special pleading to say that "Yes, reliable sources are saying her name, but they might be wrong because they've been wrong about this or that person's real name in the past." Additionally, since the BLPPRIVACY section itself says that "Misplaced Pages includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources," and since this is clearly the case here, I think that including Knox's real name is probably a good idea. However, just in case, I would like to offer a compromise by suggesting that we say that her name has been ''reported'' to be (real name withheld), rather than flat-out stating it as fact. ] ] 15:58, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

	==Removing names==		==Removing names==

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Do not post any personal information about who Knox might be in real life. Until she confirms her identity, any names or information is considered to be speculation and theory and violates our WP:BLP policy. Violations will be removed and repeated violations will run the risk of the editor getting blocked.

Real name?

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/542179/20140307/porn-star-belle-knox-reveals-identity.htm

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/wayne-k-spear/duke-porn-star_b_4905934.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/belle-knox-how-the-duke-university-law-student-became-one-of-the-most-searched-for-people-on-the-internet-9174254.html

http://hollywoodlife.com/2014/03/06/duke-porn-star-belle-knox-identity-revealed-who-is-she/

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/duke-porn-star-belle-knox-sex-workers-article-1.1712359

Her real name is mentioned in all of these articles. Please add it to the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.154.112.207 (talk) 10:56, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

I disagree. She clearly tried to keep her online and offline personas separate, and went public only because she was outed. At least for now I believe we should err on the side of privacy as the BLP says, and simply see how this matter develops. Bjelleklang - talk 21:28, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

I also disagree with using the name stated in the articles. The problem is that none of those places have really said how they identified her. Without Knox herself or one of her family members identifying her, all we have is an alleged name. Some of the stuff I've seen as far as evidence go is fairly convincing, but there have been a lot of people making fake accounts for her so we can't guarantee that this is her name because it could easily be someone who created a fake account based upon something someone else said. It's extremely likely that the media outlets are all using information taken from one of the various anonymous forums or websites that decided to try to find and dox Knox. Those sites are not infallible and there have been incidents where even the best internet sleuths and trolls have gotten information wrong. Basically, we can't automatically assume that because it was printed somewhere in the news, that an identity is automatically that person. For example, the media ran with the idea that Ryan Lanza was the identity of the Sandy Hook shooter... only for it to be that it was his brother Adam, who had stolen his ID card. There are a lot of ways as to how someone can be mistaken for someone else, so until we have a more official confirmation, we shouldn't add Knox's suspected real name. That's just not how it works here. That Knox has been exceedingly careful to NOT release her own name in the media is something that we should also respect on here. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 22:33, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
I've removed someone's post that gives what the media is reporting her IRL name to be. Please do not post any assumptions about who you believe it to be. The media has very, very frequently gotten things wrong and until Knox herself has reported her name, do not post anything that you believe to be the real name. We need more than just someone online claiming that she is Sally Smith of Everytown, USA and we cannot go by what the news is reporting because again- they have gotten identities wrong. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 13:51, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

The origin of all the stories proclaiming her real name seems to be this article in the Daily Mail. Incidentally, while I realize WP:BLPPRIVACY is important and everything, but it seems like special pleading to say that "Yes, reliable sources are saying her name, but they might be wrong because they've been wrong about this or that person's real name in the past." Additionally, since the BLPPRIVACY section itself says that "Misplaced Pages includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources," and since this is clearly the case here, I think that including Knox's real name is probably a good idea. However, just in case, I would like to offer a compromise by suggesting that we say that her name has been reported to be (real name withheld), rather than flat-out stating it as fact. Jinkinson talk to me 15:58, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Removing names

For the IP who posted, the reason we're removing the name is that it is a gross violation of our BLP policy. Please stop re-adding it or I will be forced to take further action. It is not censorship. It's following policy for the above listed reasons. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 17:38, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

No, WP:BLPNAME is not being grossly violated when multiple reliable sources report on her name. I would consider that being widely disseminated. Every other porn star article that has reliable sources verifying their real names includes them. Morbidthoughts (talk) 22:25, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes, but she also is not officially put out her name, so we would be violating her wishes by doing so, not to mention the process that got her name wasn't necessarily the same as just asking her. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 00:17, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

From a verifiability standpoint, we certainly have reliable sources for her real name. However, we might still keep it out for privacy reasons, per WP:BLPNAME. —Ashley Y 22:42, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

My concern is primarily that none of the newspapers have actually stated how they discovered Knox's name. Did they find this themselves or are they just taking what is getting passed around on the anonymous forums? Has anyone who knows Knox personally (friends, family, professors, etc) confirmed that this is her? So far all I'm seeing is that news outlets are claiming that Knox is so-and-so, yet never saying how they know. Given the whole Ryan and Adam Lanza thing and that internet people have been wrong in the past when it came to doxing people, it's not unreasonable to want to wait until we have something beyond someone listing Knox's name without actually confirming their sources. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 04:24, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

I mean, I do think that the name the media is giving is correct but I can't verify its validity because so far neither she nor anyone that personally knows her (even if in just an academic or casual setting) has confirmed that this is her identity. At least not in a setting that would be considered reliable per our guidelines. Because of this and because Knox herself has openly stated that she doesn't want her real name to be passed around, I don't think that it should be used anywhere on Misplaced Pages. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 04:30, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
We also have to ask if anything is gained by adding this to the article. To be honest... nothing is gained. That's not what people know her as and given that she has specifically said she wants her real name to remain private really does make me think we should respect that wish. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 04:38, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

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