Revision as of 22:31, 20 March 2014 view sourceSphilbrick (talk | contribs)Administrators178,668 edits Removing request for arbitration: declined by the Committee← Previous edit | Revision as of 23:21, 20 March 2014 view source Sphilbrick (talk | contribs)Administrators178,668 edits →Requests for arbitration: Removing request for arbitration: declined by the Committee <0,8,1,0>Next edit → | ||
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<noinclude>{{ArbComOpenTasks|acotstyle=float:right}}</noinclude>{{NOINDEX}} | <noinclude>{{ArbComOpenTasks|acotstyle=float:right}}</noinclude>{{NOINDEX}} | ||
{{Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Header<noinclude>|width=53%</noinclude>}} | {{Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Header<noinclude>|width=53%</noinclude>}} | ||
== Debian == | |||
'''Initiated by ''' ] (]) '''at''' 19:01, 18 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
=== Involved parties === | |||
<!-- use {{admin|username}} if the party is an administrator --> | |||
*{{userlinks|84.127.80.114}}, ''filing party'' | |||
*{{userlinks|Flamingspinach}} | |||
*{{userlinks|Guy Macon}} | |||
*{{userlinks|Mthinkcpp}} | |||
*{{userlinks|Rwxrwxrwx}} | |||
<!-- The editor filing the case should be included as a party for purposes of notifications. --> | |||
;Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request | |||
<!-- All parties must be notified that the request has been filed, immediately after it is posted, and confirmation posted here. --> | |||
*{{Diff2|600202974}} | |||
*{{Diff2|600203225}} | |||
*{{Diff2|600203440}} | |||
*{{Diff2|600203635}} | |||
;Confirmation that other steps in ] have been tried | |||
<!-- Identify prior attempts at dispute resolution here, with links/diffs to the page where the resolution took place. If prior dispute resolution has not been attempted, the reasons for this should be explained in the request for arbitration --> | |||
*{{oldid2|599952903|Debian private practices and Debian Women activities|}} | |||
*{{Diff2|596611349}} | |||
*{{oldid2|598037793|User:Mthinkcpp reported by User:84.127.80.114 (Result: IP warned)|}} | |||
*{{oldid2|599556598|User:84.127.80.114 and Debian edit war|}} | |||
*{{oldid2|599556598|User:Mthinkcpp and Debian edit war|}} | |||
*{{oldid2|599947951|Debian|}} | |||
*{{oldid2|599556598|User:84.127.80.114 and possible Debian edit war|}} | |||
=== Statement by 84.127.80.114 === | |||
Misplaced Pages policies are well written and administrators are generally trustworthy. The Misplaced Pages method works... except for one kind of articles: Debian, Ubuntu and the like. Misplaced Pages is full of Debian references.{{oldid2|579832368|Examples|}} Wikimedia chooses Ubuntu for all of its servers. We can see it on every page, X-Powered-By: PHP/5.3.10-1ubuntu3.10+wmf1 | |||
This is our stage and it will not change. It would make no sense to recuse ] for being affiliated with Ubuntu and Debian. This profile is all over the community. These users are the ones maintaining Misplaced Pages. | |||
This encyclopedia will not reach the unbiased status until it is able to accept real criticism for these articles; grounded criticism, of course. But I am also talking about facts that are perceived as pejorative. | |||
I believe I can help with this goal by adding some proposed changes to the Debian article. I repeat my good faith stance: I am trying to improve a Misplaced Pages article. I do not try to defame Debian. I do not try to praise Debian. I simply describe what is noticeably missing about Debian. By doing that, I improve the article and this encyclopedia. | |||
When I first introduced my changes, the initial reaction was denial and hostility: claims of vandalism,{{Diff2|595630941}} campaign,{{Diff2|595858175}} unreliable sources...{{Diff2|595999665}} I offered discussion from the very first revert.{{Diff2|595686031}} Unable to disprove the material, administrator help was requested.{{Diff2|596159667}} Ignoring my discussion efforts, administrator activity led to my block.{{oldid2|599815420|Edit warring|}} | |||
Refusal to discuss is a conduct issue. Nevertheless, my requests at the administrators' noticeboards have failed. I even tried a content venue, but the problem is obviously a refusal to discuss the material. This is a recent and noticeable example: I contacted a random arbitrator and, without being asked about content, she stated "the content that you are attempting to add to the article is not appropriate for Misplaced Pages"{{Diff2|599603187}} without further explanation. | |||
I am offered to file RfC processes but "Before using the RfC process , it always helps to first discuss the matter".{{oldid2|598765596}} The community is denying the necessary initial discussion. If the Arbitration Committee allows this situation, it will prove that Misplaced Pages is unable to discuss such material. | |||
Therefore, I hope that this arbitration case will be accepted. ] (]) 19:34, 18 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
=== Statement by Rwxrwxrwx === | |||
This is ridiculous. The bulk of ] clearly violate ], ], ]. This has been explained to him many times by many people, including others not named here. ] (]) 23:18, 18 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
=== Statement by Guy Macon === | |||
I became involved in this when it came to ], where I volunteer to try to help people to resolve content disputes. The case is at ]. | |||
I quickly became clear that this is a content dispute where 84.127.80.114 wished to insert a large amount of material regarding the internal politics of the Debian project that violated ], was of questionable relevance, and was poorly sourced. It also became clear that consensus was strongly against the changes. I attempted to get 84.127.80.114 to bring up any sourcing questions at the ] and to post a ] and argue his case to determine whether the wider community has a different consensus than the editors who have been working on the Debian page. This advice was rejected. | |||
As for the oft-repeated claim that there is a failure-to-discuss behavioral issue on the part of those who oppose the edits in question (which appears to be the only claim that is within the scope of the arbitration committee), the reality is that multiple editors have told 84.127.80.114 that his edits are unsuitable, first in edit summaries, then in comments on the article talk page, on his talk page by administrator JamesBWatson, on the dispute resolution noticeboard, and at other venues, including the talk page of arbcom member GorillaWarfare. | |||
This is a simple case of a user who doesn't like the consensus and is ] in the hope of getting a different answer. --] (]) 03:29, 19 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
=== Statement by JamesBWatson === | |||
My very first thought on starting to read the opening statement by 84.127.80.114 was word-for word what I later found that Rwxrwxrwx has written: "This is ridiculous". The IP editor must have a rather limited experience of disputes on English Misplaced Pages if he or she thinks that this sort of disagreement is limited to "Debian, Ubuntu and the like": it happens all the time, on any subject where there is one person who comes here determined to use Misplaced Pages to publicise particular "facts" that they believe are not well enough known, finds that consensus is against them, and instead of accepting that, decides that there is an evil conspiracy to suppress THE TRUTH about the particular issue in question. It is also absurd to suggest that Misplaced Pages administrators have some sort of interest in suppressing negative coverage of Debian because that is what the Wikimedia servers run. Misplaced Pages administrators, like most Misplaced Pages editors, are ordinary members of the public who choose to volunteer, and most of us have no connection whatever to the Wikimedia foundation. I for one didn't even know that the servers run Debian until I read the statement above from the IP editor, and now that I know I don't care. I would be willing to bet that the same applies to over 99% of administrators. | |||
The claim that there is a failure to discuss the issues is utter nonsense, as has been shown by diffs provided by other editors above. A number of editors have attempted to discuss the issues, in several places, but the IP editor simply does not recognise discussion as being discussion if that discussion does not support his/her view. The fact of the matter is that we have an editor who is firmly attached to his/her opinion that certain facts are THE TRUTH and need to be made publicly known by any means whatever, and switches into ] mode whenever he/she encounters anything that does not fit in with that view, resulting in a probably sincere but erroneous perception that there has been refusal to discuss. As is often the case with editors here with a mission to reveal THE TRUTH, "a lot of people agreeing with me" = consensus, while "a lot of people disagreeing with me" = an evil conspiracy. Unable to accept that consensus is against him/her, the editor is desperately ] to try to get support for his/her stance. <small>''The editor who uses the pseudonym''</small> "]" (]) 09:36, 19 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
=== Statement by Mthinkcpp === | |||
Unacceptable content being proposed for the Debian page by 84.127.80.114. The reasons for rejection have been given at the ] case, on the talk page, edit summaries and on 84.127.80.114's talk page - in detail, by more than one user. 84.127.80.114 has rejected the explanations (by pretending they don't exist), and has since being attempting to ] via various techniques, including two incident reports (], ]) against me (both which were rejected), in an attempt to force the content onto the page, the ] case and misusing a policy to get the content on the page (], ]). | |||
I agree with Rwxrwxrwx and JamesBWatson, it is ridiculous. | |||
=== Outside View by ] === | |||
The quality of requested ArbCom cases has been deterioriating recently and is becoming ridiculous. It is clear that there hasn't been any adequate attempt to resolve the content dispute, and the filing part hasn't presented evidence of a conduct dispute other than vague hints at a conspiracy suppressing the truth. Either the case should be declined, or the case should be declined and the filing party admonished. By the way, I suggest that the filing party register an account; it will provide various privileges. ] (]) 11:58, 20 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
=== Clerk notes === | |||
:''This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).'' | |||
=== Debian: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <0/8/1/0> === | |||
{{anchor|1=Debian: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter}}<small>Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse/other)</small> | |||
*Awaiting further statements, but leaning decline based on what I've read so far. ] (]) 07:47, 19 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
**'''Decline''' per the statements above in response to the request and per the comments by other arbitrators below. ] (]) 02:01, 20 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
*'''Decline'''. This is a good-faith content dispute among editors and those are outside of our purview (see, among many, ]). 84.127.80.114, your only possible course of action, now, is to start an RFC and accept that, sometimes, consensus may be against you/your proposal. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;" class="texhtml"> ''']'''</span> ] 10:30, 19 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
*'''Decline''' for the reasons given by Salvio. This would also be a good spot to thank the editors who have volunteered to help resolve content disputes at DRN. ] (]) 15:15, 19 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
*'''Decline''', I see no indication that normal dispute resolution processes have failed to handle this matter. The fact that the outcome of those processes was not to someone's liking is not grounds for arbitration. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 16:09, 19 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
* '''Decline''', as I've already said I would. This is not an issue for the Arbitration Committee to handle. As a side note, your suggestion that our articles on Linux distributions cannot be unbiased because Misplaced Pages is hosted on servers running Ubuntu makes me question if you extend that all judgment to all computing- and even electricity-related articles, as those are used to serve Misplaced Pages as well. I trust that the Misplaced Pages community can work to create unbiased articles on these subjects, despite the operating system used on the Wikimedia servers, and without the Arbitration Committee stepping in. ] <small>]</small> 01:55, 20 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
* '''Decline'''. ] (]) 03:41, 20 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
* '''Decline'''. I have less faith than some other Arbs about whether this is a "good faith" content dispute, but the community can handle it if the disruption continues. And on another note, NYB is right about a hat tip being appropriate to those who help out at ]. --] (]) 14:06, 20 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
*'''Decline''' per all the above. ] (]) 19:29, 20 March 2014 (UTC) | |||
*'''Recuse'''. ''']<font color="darkgreen">]</font>''' 20:33, 20 March 2014 (UTC) |
Revision as of 23:21, 20 March 2014
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