Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 13:41, 8 April 2014 editFram (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, IP block exemptions, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers, Template editors247,761 edits →Rich Farmbrough: Editor notified← Previous edit		Revision as of 18:10, 8 April 2014 edit undoSandstein (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators188,568 edits →Result concerning Rich Farmbrough: +Next edit →
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	<!-- Use {{hat\|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->		<!-- Use {{hat\|Result}} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed.-->
	<small>''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''</small>		<small>''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''</small>

			*The request has merit. The edits submitted as evidence can only be the result of an (apparently malformed) search-and-replace command. Search-and-replace is a form of prohibited automation under the terms of the Committee's motion of 6 June 2012, which provides that Rich Farmbrough "is directed ... to make only completely manual edits (i.e. by selecting the button and typing changes into the editing window)". The of this restriction, also for search-and-replace edits, resulted in a one-year block, the maximum allowed under the enforcement provision. Without objection by another admin, I will impose another one-year block. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 18:10, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Revision as of 18:10, 8 April 2014

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request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator,
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Lvivske

The appeal was unsuccessful. Sandstein 06:59, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Appealing user Lvivske (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Sanction being appealed The other participants (Galassi (talk · contribs), Bandurist (talk · contribs) and Lvivske (talk · contribs)), all of whom have had prior sanctions and/or warnings under the "Digwuren" Arbcom rules, are placed under an indefinite revert limitation on all Ukraine-related edits: not more than 1 revert per 48 hours per article, with the extra slowdown condition that before they make any content revert (obvious vandalism excepted as usual), they are required to first open a discussion on talk, provide an explanation of their intended revert and then wait 6 hours before actually making it to allow time for discussion" Topic bound 1RR per 48hrs with extra slowdown on Ukraine related articles. Sanctions were applied on this talk page on 30 October 2011. Editor who imposed or found consensus to impose the sanction Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) / Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Notification of that editor diff Statement by User:Lvivske My primary area of editing is on Ukraine or Europe, be it in politics or sports, and having a topic bound sanction that limits my ability to engage in WP:CYCLE indefinitely is a major hindrance. The sanctions were applied in 2011, and really should have been limited to just the page where the edit war at the time was occurring, in order to slow down the conflict that happened that 1 day...which was over 2 years ago. I wasn't even a prime mover in that particular conflict, and in a way got dragged in, but I wasn't an instigator. After the sanctions were applied, a user who was opposing me on the discussions stated: User:Greyhood: I also think that user Lvivske's conduct wasn't really problematic here, at least for me, and I'd like to kindly ask the involved admins to reconsider the restrictions on him. Also, the sanctions were predicated on having "prior sanctions and/or warnings under the Digwuren Arbcom rules". I had no prior sanctions under DIG. Also,my warning on DIG was made by Cailil. This warning was related to a block Cailil made on me, the discussion related to which is here. Commenting users found that the admin was too involved. It was overturned. Here are some comments by neutral users who chimed in: User:Lothar von Richthofen: Cailil's DIGWUREN warning to Lvivske was handed out for the same "reasons" as the block. After much discussion, these "reasons" were found to be spurious at best. As a result, the block was summarily overturned. Shouldn't this mean that the warning also be rescinded? User:Lysy: Having looked through the edits in question it seems clear that this block should not be held. Additionally, the content disagreement between the blocking admin and Liviske regading whether Mila Kunis is Ukrainian or not, not only does not warrant a block but on the contrary, should make the admin more cautious, and refrain from using his admin priviliges User:Djsasso: I almost unblocked immediately this block was a very bad block by someone clearly involved and biased. User:Piotrus: it would be helpful if the blocking admin would apologize to the victim (Lvivske). User:Volunteer Marek: It should also give you two pause that folks who have had disagreements with Lvivske in the past are coming here to defend him. It's pretty clear that this was a horrible block, that it was abusive and that now just a whole bunch of excuses are being made. There's nothing uncivil about stating this fact The admin's (Calil) conduct actually inspired another 3rd party user to file an AE report on him and cite many of the things that happened in my oreal here. The block itself in the end was overturned by Future Perfect at Sunrise. (which I guess is ironic that something overturned was later used against me) I am thus asking for 2 things: a) That my sanctions be lifted - they were harsh at first but after 2 years passing, I think I've learned my lesson. It's also debatable as to how involved I was in the first place. b) That my warning on WP:DIG be removed from my record (or reworded) since it was based on a very questionable dispute and a block that was overturned and opposed by a slew of uninvolved users who thought I was unfairly treated. Something like this shouldn't be ammo to use against me in the future. ---Further comments--- @Callanecc: For the record, the dispute you're citing was resolved on the talk page. / Yes, I may have overstepped my bounds and lost track of my edits in that particular instance a few weeks ago. Nonetheless, I feel that I should be treated under the same 3RR rules as anyone else. I'm a very active user on talk pages, the sanctions imposed are more fitting for someone who reverts continually and/or ignores discussion while I do operate in good faith and try to engage as well as provide rationale behind my edits if disputes arise. --Львівське (говорити) 03:32, 31 March 2014 (UTC) @DangerousPanda: I believe my track record does show greatly positive editing considering the volume I deal with, and positive interactions with other users far outweigh the few negative relationships (seeing as users I clash with come to my defense in, I would assume this is a rarity on wiki). Maybe my methods are a necessary evil? I'm not a bad guy.--Львівське (говорити) 16:32, 31 March 2014 (UTC) @My very best wishes: This request is entirely unrelated to Stephen Sharpe's 3RR complaint. He had been after me for a while. I had been meaning to write this for a long time but just had no clue where to file this. I guess his harassment was a catalyst but not the sole cause.--Львівське (говорити) 18:55, 31 March 2014 (UTC) @Stephen J Sharpe: Insinuating you were going to 'cut my balls off' and proceeding to 'nail' me for sanctions on the 23rd (dismissed) and then unprovoked again on the 30th for edits made on the 10th can indeed be seen as harassment. --Львівське (говорити) 20:30, 31 March 2014 (UTC) @Stephen J Sharpe: If you truly wanted to avoid the noiceboard you wouldn't have filed a complaint 2 weeks after the fact when I was no longer engaged on the article. It seems, rather, than you went back in the logs to 'hunt' for a sequence of edits you could report me for; that is, not an active dispute. I don't know if you have better things to do, I can only go by your actions.--Львівське (говорити) 22:13, 31 March 2014 (UTC) Just want to point out that Epeefleche is not a neutral party here as he was engaged in an edit war with myself and several other WP:HOCKEY folks dating back to June over a BLP issue. He's currently arguing with me on my talk page at the moment. I should also point out that his diffs indicating I'm reverting are actually links to me talking on talk pages...so...glean his motivations as you will. --Львівське (говорити) 04:03, 1 April 2014 (UTC) @Epeefleche: Since context is key , I was accused of, and was replying to a direct quote insinuating that I held an ‘’“apparent belief that being Jewish & Ukrainian is not possible”’’. I stand by this being a fabrication, as I never stated nor insinuated such a belief. It was probably a misunderstanding, but doesn’t make my defense of it any less staunch. Epeefleche, however, seems to be persistent in his vendetta against me, hounding me, and coming up with imaginary conspiracy theories about “patterns” in my editing; cherry picking select content disputes years apart. ‘’’It reminds me of Chief Wiggum trying to catch the cat burglar’’’. I should also point out that none of this has anything to do with the appeal/enforcement of sanctions nor my editing, so it seems this user is just trying to pile on me for his own enjoyment, which fits his MO thus far.--Львівське (говорити) 23:10, 1 April 2014 (UTC) Amendment I think we should look at the log & sanctions section On the 28th (October, 2011) I made one revert after a user (Voyevoda) engaged in disruptive activity (blanking, name calling another user in edit summaries). The user Voyevoda was blocked indefinitely for his conduct. From these edit logs, it displays I never broke 3RR or even really got into an edit war in the first place. I tried to intervene in an ongoing dispute and made a single revert on a user who was so over the line he was blocked forever, and am still paying the price today. I was also heavily engaged with other users on the talk page. I wasn't a disruptive user but was punished as one. If the question, as posed by Sandstein, is why the sanctions are no longer necessary, I would still argue that they weren’t really necessary in the first place. You guys are obviously looking at my block log and seeing that I’ve been without issue for over a year, and if we’re ignoring the couple hour timeout I got in Feb 2013 my last issue here was in March 2012. The issue in March 2012 was filed by Volunteer Marek, a guy who is standing up for me here. I think that says something. As others have noted, my conduct has been on the up as I’ve gotten more settled in here. I think this is a very good explanation as to why the topic sanction is no longer necessary. If I need to show positive editing and positive user interactions, just look at my record. I used the quotes in my appeal to show that even users who I’m not always in agreement with support my being a contributor. Yes I've gotten into arguments, we all do at some point, but by and large I think that my editing is an asset to the community and this topic area, not a hindrance. Sanctions like this should be in effect for repeat offenders who need to stop breaking policy without dialogue, not people who engage honestly and actively who can go year(s) without issue.--Львівське (говорити) 17:49, 2 April 2014 (UTC) Statement by User:Future Perfect at Sunrise Comments by others about the appeal by User:Lvivske Statement of Alex Bakharev (talk) I have a long history of interaction with Lvivske and quite often we were on opposing sides of numerous editorial disputes and I cannot help but notice that his behavior significantly changed to the better. He is much more civil and stricter follows the rules than three-five years ago. This is of course my own opinion, but there is a fact: most people subjected to 1RR remedy would become banned from the site in a year - usually if somebody is unable to follow general 3RR rules then they certainly could not obey 1RR - Lvivske on the other hand not only survived on 1RR remedy without being banned for more than two years, he was not even blocked for a single time since then. Now there is a series of very important events occurring in Ukraine since 2014 Ukrainian revolution and 2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine. The whole world is now looking on Ukraine, a lot of new events and a lot of editorial activities attracts many new users. Some of new users are not aware of Misplaced Pages policies, some are very opinionated, some might be trolls. Ukraine is the main topic for Lvivske and he is trying his best to keep the related articles in shape doing a lot of usable work. His ability to do this work is strongly affected by this 1RR ban: if an important article has dozens of edits per day and many are done by new or biased editors or people with poor command of English then it is easy to formally violate 1RR restriction by just doing noncontroversial edits like fixing BLP issues, removing repeated info, fixing grammar, etc. I think we should give Lvivske a chance to work without interference from the 1RR restriction. If he started to edit problematically when it is just a few minutes from any uninvolved administrator to put him on the restriction again. Alex Bakharev (talk) 06:50, 31 March 2014 (UTC) Statement by Volunteer Marek Actually, I don't have much to add that Alex above hasn't said already. Same thing. I often disagree/dispute with Lvivske (I think I got him blocked once long time ago). I think that over the last three years his behavior has gotten much better. And... oh, ok, I do have a bit to add: I don't think his behavior was all that bad to begin with. Just some usual minor stuff that happens in any sufficiently contentious topic area, but I've always found that if you actually approach Lvivske in a reasonable and respectful manner then... you get a reasonable and respectful conversation (which is A LOT, both on Misplaced Pages and in this topic area). I also agree with Alex that right now we really do need knowledgeable editors about Ukraine and Lvivske has a lot to contribute. The appeal is timely and well justified. Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:05, 31 March 2014 (UTC) @User:Toddy1. Correlation is not causation. And anyway, by that logic we should slap some sanctions on anyone anywhere because "fear of sanctions will have a moderating effect on their behavior". You know, prevention, not punishment. You ready to volunteer to be first in line Toddy1? Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:28, 31 March 2014 (UTC) Statement of User:Toddy1 What Alex Bakharev says is all the more reason to maintain the current sanctions. The fear of sanctions has had a moderating effect on Lvivske's behaviour.--Toddy1 (talk) 07:17, 31 March 2014 (UTC) @User:Mishae. The reason the wise admins put in the sanctions, was to preserve the benefits of Lvivske's enthusiasm, whilst trying to contain the bad effects of his/her behaviour. If I had been the admin I would have done an indefinite topic ban on any article to do with Jews or Ukraine. What you say, suggests that maybe the admins are wiser than me.--Toddy1 (talk) 08:18, 1 April 2014 (UTC) Statement of User:Cailil Regarding Callanecc's note on rewording warnings. I would have no problem with my warning being reworded if its considered helpful by the admins here. But given that this sanction (Future Perfect's) has stood for years. And seemed to be well understood I think changing my warning is quite pointless at this point - but if it helps I will not stand in the way of the log being undiffed and reworded (but linked to this thread) - but only in the case that is considered necessary by a consensus of sysops here. Also if I remember correctly Shell Kinney notified Lvivske of the RFAR in 2009 as well--Cailil 10:36, 31 March 2014 (UTC) Also for the record Future Perfect granted Lviviske's unblock appeal of 72 hour block after 51 hours. he did not overturn or rescind my warning. He used his discretion in what was a normal non-AE block that any sysop could unblock without prejudice. Lviviske is confusing this non-AE action (the unblock) with overturning his notification of the existence of AC/DS (something that is impossible). Yes Volunteer Marek did file an AE thread against me. It was closed with "no action" (see here)--Cailil 10:56, 31 March 2014 (UTC) As a constructive proposal if sysops want a reworded log at WP:DIGWUREN might I suggest: Lviviske is notified of WP:DIGWUREN and the discretionary sanctions in place in that topic area --Cailil 11:46, 31 March 2014 (UTC) @Epeefleche For clarity Epeefleche the text you quote is from my block of Lviviske NOT the sanction he is appealing. Lviviske was not given an AE sanction by me. The sanction was applied by Future Perfect & his rationale is here--Cailil 11:12, 1 April 2014 (UTC) Could someone please have a word with the relatively new users using this page to cast vague aspersions about groups of people they see as being "the other side™" & general soapboxing--Cailil 10:04, 4 April 2014 (UTC) Statement of User:Stephen J Sharpe Lvivske has already been operating for some time as if these sanctions do not apply. I recently cited 3RR violations and edit warring over on the noticeboard. The edit warring in question appear to be very similar in nature to the edit warring that brought about the original sanctions. Namely, Lvivske reverted multiple editors despite there being an ongoing conversation on the talk page where the emerging consensus supported the original text. Further, Lvivske has a history of attacking those who criticize him with personal attacks including repeated allegations that I am "headhunting" him, calling me "a nut", and yesterday accusing User:Solntsa90 of libeling him here. Clearly the status quo is not working - either the sanctions should be enforced or they should be removed. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 15:20, 31 March 2014 (UTC) As if to prove my point, Lvivske characterizes my 3RR report as harassment above instead of assuming good faith. As I understand, this is the same uncooperative attitude that brought about these sanctions in the first place. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 19:43, 31 March 2014 (UTC) @My very best wishes: A perceived "information war" is not a good reason to hold long-term contributors to a lower standard "against the rules". If anything, it seems to me that long-term editors should be held to a higher' standard because they should be expected to have a better understanding of Misplaced Pages rules. For example, Lvivske's misinterpretation of WP:CYCLE, as User:Callanecc points out below, is all the more troubling given that he's been editing for 6 years. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 16:51, 31 March 2014 (UTC) @Lvivske: You misread it. I wrote that you had "cut off my balls" referencing our conversation where you called me "a nut" and removed it as soon as you complained. Why is 'nail' me in quotes? - I never used that language. So reporting you twice is harassment? I was active on both article when you made reverts that appeared to be a breach of your sanctions. I even tried to avoid the noticeboard for the 3RR violations by requesting help from User:Alex Bakharev but he didn't respond for a week. You could've assumed good faith; you could've asked me for an explanation; instead you accused me of "headhunting" multiple times as if I don't have better things to do. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 22:01, 31 March 2014 (UTC) @Lvivske: The latest 3RR violations were committed on the 18th and I notified User:Alex Bakharev on the 24th so that's 6 days. I didn't report it at the time because I didn't know what 3RR was until User:My very best wishes explained it to me on the 22nd in this discussion. I waited a week without a response from User:Alex Bakharev about the 3RR reverts and only then reported it on the noticeboard. The fact that I waited 7 days should be seen by you as evidence that I'm not terribly interested in your affairs but instead you somehow saw as further evidence of headhunting. Again - you could've just asked me this on my talk page but instead you just assumed bad intentions and have prefaced every conversation involving us and a third party with the same claims of harassment. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 22:50, 31 March 2014 (UTC) @My very best wishes: Disclosure of personal information? You mean that Lvivske is Ukrainian and from Lviv? That's proudly stated on his user page. Why are you suggesting I'm a sockpuppet and how is this relevant to what's being discussed? Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 22:07, 31 March 2014 (UTC) @My very best wishes: Please don't remove your previous comments from the talk page if others have already responded to them. It's also considered bad form per WP:REDACT. You're over-analyzing what I wrote - it was a joke, perhaps in bad taste and I removed it as soon as Lvivske complained. I'm still learning Misplaced Pages etiquette so I thank you for your explanation. You and Lvivske are welcome to discuss any other concerns you have on my talk page but lets not get distracted from the issue at hand here. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 00:41, 1 April 2014 (UTC) @Stephen J Sharpe: I know you might disagree with me but 3RR rule is sometimes being overused here to the point of it being a harassment to some users. Lets face it: As someone mentioned here that majority of users get blocked indefinitely within a year because of this rule and lets not forget, some users don't even know of the rule existence until its too late. If so, that's how we lose many good faith editors (Lvivske included).--Mishae (talk) 02:56, 1 April 2014 (UTC) @Mishae: I can't agree or disagree as I've only been here 2 months. What I can say is this - I also didn't fully understand 3RR until User:My very best wishes kindly explained it to me in this discussion on March 22. My point being that I was editing for 48 days before I became aware of 3RR; Lvivske has been editing for 6 years but just a couple of weeks ago ran afoul of 3RR multiple times (while on 1RR restriction) as I reported on the noticeboard the day before he launched this appeal. For that reason, I am opposed to the sanctions being lifted. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 14:46, 1 April 2014 (UTC) @Stephen J Sharpe: I think we need to give him another chance, considering that all of us are still learning the nook and crannies of this project, and we are learning every day, and it doesn't matter if we are newbies or level 4 editors. I think in some cases users still need to be reminded here that Misplaced Pages is not a dictatorship, and that's why WP:IAR still exists. On a side note, in my opinion, Lvivske just have spring fever, it will pass by April, I hope. --Mishae (talk) 15:30, 1 April 2014 (UTC) Comment of User:My very best wishes I think that editing restrictions to experienced editors (such as all three people sanctioned by FPS) should never be given for a period of time longer than six months because this gives unfair advantage to SPA accounts who are engaged in WP:BATTLE. This is the reason I agree with Alex and Marek that restriction must be lifted - per WP:IAR. My very best wishes (talk) 23:34, 31 March 2014 (UTC) After looking at atrociously POV editing by SPA/sleepers in this subject area, I now believe my first judgement was correct. My very best wishes (talk) 20:51, 2 April 2014 (UTC) @S.J. Sharpe. This is current version of userpage of Lvivske. No, it does NOT claim that he is a "Ukrainian" . Neither it claims he is from Lviv (he comes from Ontario) as you asserted in your comment, which I believe was completely inappropriate and an obvious violation of WP:NPA while editing in the area of discretionary sanctions you was warned about. I also did not call you "sockpuppet". I did suggest that an SP investigation might be helpful. Sorry! I agree with one of admins that such suggestions should only be made after a preliminary investigation and with diffs on appropriate (SPI) noticeboard. My very best wishes (talk) 23:54, 31 March 2014 (UTC) Let me clarify. In my opinion, what happens is not pro-Ukrainian users versus pro-Russian users. What happens is Misplaced Pages being successfully subverted to deliver political propaganda under disguise of NPOV. Here is just one of many examples. This page tells: "The leadership in Crimea and Sevastopol considered the ousting of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych in the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, which was supported by the United States and EU, as a coup ..." and so on. No, there was no any leadership of Crimea. From the moment the building of their parliament was taken over by Russian special forces (in the beginning of the operation, and very much like during Soviet war in Afghanistan, but only without killings), there was only Russian occupation administration in Crimea. I personally do not want to be any part of the project that delivers political propaganda. My very best wishes (talk) 09:52, 4 April 2014 (UTC) Statement of User:Paavo273 From my reading this appeal & the original blocking & reversal discussion, this vestigial sanction's status is analogous to fruit of the poisonous tree (lingering penalty from an overturned bad decision by an administrator the "fruit"). In real world, sanctions don't last ad infinitum, and in any case these IMO R clearly punitive, contrary to stated purpose4 sanctions. Parole & even probation expire. Kindalike judgment was overturned but judge neglected to vacate the sentence. Lvivske appears IME to be one of few mainstays in building Ukraine-related content in the encyclopaedia, e.g., and . The few times our paths have crossed (he edits a lot more articles and creates a lot more content than I or most editors), Lvivske has been very helpful, e.g., I was working on an article when the founder of this site himself one day edited it. I mentioned this fact on the talk page and asked generally for some info. The very next day, Lvivske provided THIS. Another time I and some other editors were frustrated an article was so out of date it hardly even mentioned the reality on the ground in Ukraine. I posted this talk comment and Lvivske was the first to respond with a helpful link, which likely was a catalyst for transforming the article. I could cite many other examples where Lvivske is both a major sourced-content contributor and a help to less involved, less knowledgeable editors. I’ve seen last few months exactly what Alex Bakharev (par2) & Volunteer Marek are talking about. Someone who knows how & cares must take time to write quality content & volume in order 4 the subject area 2B covered in something approaching encyclopaedic format and detail. New comment 1 April (UTC): I agree mostly w/ the now deleted remarks of User:My very best wishes rel the state of "administrating" on Misplaced Pages. Well stated! I detect wikilawyering--esp. disregard for the core purpose of Misplaced Pages here. In admin. Callanec's 1st diff, he points to Lvivske's UNcontroversial correction of obvious error ('Never heard it any differently from what Lvivske corrected it to, EXCEPT ON WIKIPEDIA. I even saw RT report it correctly.) ‘Seems more interested in sticking it to Lvivske than having a factually accurate encyclopaedia to "administrate." Hamstring your core editors in their subject areas and see what happens to the quality of your encyclopaedia … It ‘BE happening & BEEN happening. I see wikilawyering in admin. Sandstein's & DP's remarks, too. I haven't seen a WP statute of limitations for correcting neglected reversible error (in the form of this per se punitive and unfair-to-start-with action). Paavo273 (talk) 01:33, 1 April 2014 (UTC) Additional comment 2 April (UTC): To respond to User:Epeefleche's "analysis" of Lvivske's "deletions of RS-supported material and RSs from the bio of a Jewish Ukrainian," the facts are not on Epeefleche's side. There is an ongoing dispute about the article subject's alleged Jewish ethnicity, the quality of evidence, it needing to meet BLP standards, and the subject himself scrupulously not self-identifying as of Jewish ethnicity. Lvivske got caught in the crossfire of an emerging edit-war between another user and myself. This is yet another hatchet job on Lvivske, although I am not questioning Epeefleche's GF; he may genuinely believe what he says, lacking in substance though it is. Paavo273 (talk) 00:06, 2 April 2014 (UTC) THANK YOU, User:My very best wishes, for your IMO excellent analysis. This is IMO a systemic problem that is destroying the integrity and credibility of Misplaced Pages. Paavo273 (talk) 18:02, 4 April 2014 (UTC) Statement of Epeefleche I believe that the sanctions should stay in place. I'm a neutral editor as to the initial matter for which Lvivske was sanctioned, as I was not involved in it. Note that when the sanction Lviske is appealing from was applied, part of the explanation for the sanction was that: "The fact that you are now edit-warring over your apparent belief that being Jewish & Ukrainian is not possible is pointy, incorrect, and contrary to the core policies of this site (source based, neutral point of view edits). You should be in no doubt User:Lvivske that further behaviour like this will be prevented by block if necessary." But Lviske asserts that "after 2 years passing, I think I've learned my lesson." I find that statement astounding. The very day he posted that, he was involved in this discussion relating to Jews on Ukraine-related articles. I believe his actions alluded to there and, his statements there (especially as to his deletions of RS-supported material and RSs from the bio of a Jewish Ukrainian, evidence precisely the opposite. He did so asserting faslely, among other things, that it is wp:OR to maintain the RS-supported text. (?!) And his assertions in that discussion are amazing in that they reflect either an utter lack of understanding, or an intentional bald effort to disrupt. No lesson has been learned, from what I can see. Also during the pendency of his request, he is on a totally unrelated (but, also Ukraine-related) article again accusing Sage of OR for ... reflecting what the RS does in fact say. He seems to believe that it is OK for him to revert editors by using the phrase "OR", when the text he is deleting is just the opposite of OR. The above matters in which he has taken these positions remain unresolved, so his tendentious but unsupportable positions have led to deletions of appropriate material. Similarly, these problems on Jewish/Ukrainian articles are long-standing, from even before the incident that led to his above-discussed sanctions, as can be seen in the discussion initiated of his edits by Jayjg here. Furthermore, I believe the warning should stay in place. He wants it removed so that it won't "be ammo to use against me in the future." But it is precisely the sort of thing that we should have as background, when seeking to understand and weigh his editing and his comments in the afore-mentioned discussion, in which he "explains" his deletions. Without that background, we might fail to understand that this is part of an ongoing practice of his.--Epeefleche (talk) 03:27, 1 April 2014 (UTC) In a post Lvivske left just today he accused sysop Cailil of -- in Cailil's Block and Warning post to Lvivske -- having "completely fabricated" facts, and made "false statements". This may perhaps further call into question whether Lvivske has not, as he maintains he has, "learned" his "lesson." Epeefleche (talk) 20:44, 1 April 2014 (UTC) Statement of User:Mishae I know Lvivske since Euromaidan article was written here in early 2014. I must also add that I don't know Lvivske who was here 2, 5 or 6 years ago. I however need to point out that if anyone likes Lvivske as an editor here (me and Alex included), then they should at least lessen the sanctions. Otherwise we have a chance of losing a very knowledgeable editor. Besides, not many people know where Ukraine is and what its like, so this topic which Alex, Lvivske, @Yulia Romero:, (and sometimes me), try to expand upon is very important. We also need to keep in mind that Misplaced Pages is not a dictatorship (I am surprised that such rule wasn't included in what Misplaced Pages is not), and that's why we have WP:IAR which was ignored by admins and users who issued concern about Lvivske. Keep in mind, no one is perfect and Lvivske is as equal as everyone else, just because he violated 3RR rule doesn't mean he should be sanctioned. Now I wanna know the admins response to my comment above (I bet their talkpages aren't clean from block either, and if they are, then there are some hiding in their archives). Feel free to throw NPA rule if you please, but I tried to be civil.--Mishae (talk) 03:36, 1 April 2014 (UTC) Statement by User:Aleksandr Grigoryev I know Lvivske for quite a bit. Frankly, he is very stiff in arguments and does like to press his point of view quite hard. Nonetheless, I cannot say that one may not find some common ground with Lvivske if he or she wishes. In general Lvivske might be a difficult to argue, but his civility and courtesy proves that he could be compromised and reasoned with. It would be a great loss for the Misplaced Pages community to have Lvivske locked out completely as he is a major editor on number of subjects that no one else edits. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 01:37, 3 April 2014 (UTC) Result of the appeal by User:Lvivske This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. These (from March 2014) seem like a violation of the 1RR/48hr restriction 1, 2 & 3 plus another 1 & 2. Lvivske explanation of the reverts as WP:CYCLE in progress (which it isn't as there is only one R in BRD) shows me that they don't understand the reason the restrictions were imposed (to make them discuss rather than revert) or what they actually mean. Given this I don't see a strong argument to remove or lessen the sanctions unless either the sanctioning admin wants to remove them or there are other arguments presented. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 03:30, 31 March 2014 (UTC) I saw that it was resolved on the talk page but that still doesn't excuse the reverts in violation of your edit restriction. Also regarding the warning, there have been a (lot) of discussions about removing warnings from log pages and the agreement is that you can't un-notify or un-warn someone that discretionary sanctions are in effect so warnings therefore shouldn't be removed from the log page. Though they can be reworded, and I'm very open to considering that pending the logging admin's comments on the matter. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 03:40, 31 March 2014 (UTC) After all this time, I would have expected to support this. However, the appellant's argument TODAY is that the original sanctions were wrong, and beats us up using random quotes to support that. This is not at all what I would have expected as a appeal. Any form of topic ban appeal, whether AE-imposed or community-imposed needs to show a) positive editing b) positive user interactions. There seems to be violations just RECENTLY of the imposed restrictions. As such, there's no possible way to vacate this as of yet. D P 12:16, 31 March 2014 (UTC) As DangerousPanda says, it is not helpful to appeal a three-year old sanction with the argument that it ought not to have been imposed at that time. Rather, the appellant should tell us why the sanction is no longer necessary. As Callanecc shows above, Lvivske has recently violated the sanction and engaged in edit warring. The sanction seems therefore still to be necessary. Accordingly, I'd decline the appeal. Log entries are not to be removed. Sandstein 16:48, 31 March 2014 (UTC) I personally feel that 1RR/48hr doesn't help currently. That being said, if a violation as recently occurred then it's not beneficial to remove it altogether. I would suggest the sanctions be altered to the standard 1RR per 24 hours on the same articles. I do not know whether the extra slowdown clause should be modified if the sanction is indeed altered. Penwhale (nonsecure) 19:03, 2 April 2014 (UTC) Given that the sanction has recently been broken I don't see why we should be lessening it. Plus given that it has been shown to be necessary (as shown by Lvivske recently breaking and edit warring) I am very hesitant to lessen it without first hearing from the sanctioning admin (@Future Perfect at Sunrise:). Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 22:35, 2 April 2014 (UTC) I think I'll declare neutral on this. Don't currently have the time to dig sufficiently deeply into Lvivske's recent editing to see if there are signs of continued tendentiousness or unconstructive conduct in disputes. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:22, 3 April 2014 (UTC) Discussion seems to have mostly stopped, and there is not the required clear consensus to undo or change the sanction. Without objection, I will (or perhaps somebody else will) close this appeal as unsuccessful tomorrow. Sandstein 16:18, 4 April 2014 (UTC) I agree there isn't consensus at this time. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 22:19, 4 April 2014 (UTC) So closed. Sandstein 06:57, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

The appeal was unsuccessful. Sandstein 06:59, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Appealing user: Lvivske (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction being appealed: The other participants (Galassi (talk · contribs), Bandurist (talk · contribs) and Lvivske (talk · contribs)), all of whom have had prior sanctions and/or warnings under the "Digwuren" Arbcom rules, are placed under an indefinite revert limitation on all Ukraine-related edits: not more than 1 revert per 48 hours per article, with the extra slowdown condition that before they make any content revert (obvious vandalism excepted as usual), they are required to first open a discussion on talk, provide an explanation of their intended revert and then wait 6 hours before actually making it to allow time for discussion"

Topic bound 1RR per 48hrs with extra slowdown on Ukraine related articles. Sanctions were applied on this talk page on 30 October 2011.

Editor who imposed or found consensus to impose the sanction: Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) / Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Notification of that editor: diff

Statement by User:Lvivske

My primary area of editing is on Ukraine or Europe, be it in politics or sports, and having a topic bound sanction that limits my ability to engage in WP:CYCLE indefinitely is a major hindrance. The sanctions were applied in 2011, and really should have been limited to just the page where the edit war at the time was occurring, in order to slow down the conflict that happened that 1 day...which was over 2 years ago.

I wasn't even a prime mover in that particular conflict, and in a way got dragged in, but I wasn't an instigator. After the sanctions were applied, a user who was opposing me on the discussions stated:

User:Greyhood: I also think that user Lvivske's conduct wasn't really problematic here, at least for me, and I'd like to kindly ask the involved admins to reconsider the restrictions on him.

Also, the sanctions were predicated on having "prior sanctions and/or warnings under the Digwuren Arbcom rules". I had no prior sanctions under DIG. Also,my warning on DIG was made by Cailil.

This warning was related to a block Cailil made on me, the discussion related to which is here. Commenting users found that the admin was too involved. It was overturned.

Here are some comments by neutral users who chimed in:

User:Lothar von Richthofen: Cailil's DIGWUREN warning to Lvivske was handed out for the same "reasons" as the block. After much discussion, these "reasons" were found to be spurious at best. As a result, the block was summarily overturned. Shouldn't this mean that the warning also be rescinded?

User:Lysy: Having looked through the edits in question it seems clear that this block should not be held. Additionally, the content disagreement between the blocking admin and Liviske regading whether Mila Kunis is Ukrainian or not, not only does not warrant a block but on the contrary, should make the admin more cautious, and refrain from using his admin priviliges

User:Djsasso: I almost unblocked immediately this block was a very bad block by someone clearly involved and biased.

User:Piotrus: it would be helpful if the blocking admin would apologize to the victim (Lvivske).

User:Volunteer Marek: It should also give you two pause that folks who have had disagreements with Lvivske in the past are coming here to defend him. It's pretty clear that this was a horrible block, that it was abusive and that now just a whole bunch of excuses are being made. There's nothing uncivil about stating this fact

The admin's (Calil) conduct actually inspired another 3rd party user to file an AE report on him and cite many of the things that happened in my oreal here. The block itself in the end was overturned by Future Perfect at Sunrise. (which I guess is ironic that something overturned was later used against me)

I am thus asking for 2 things:

a) That my sanctions be lifted - they were harsh at first but after 2 years passing, I think I've learned my lesson. It's also debatable as to how involved I was in the first place.
b) That my warning on WP:DIG be removed from my record (or reworded) since it was based on a very questionable dispute and a block that was overturned and opposed by a slew of uninvolved users who thought I was unfairly treated. Something like this shouldn't be ammo to use against me in the future.

---Further comments---

@Callanecc: For the record, the dispute you're citing was resolved on the talk page. / Yes, I may have overstepped my bounds and lost track of my edits in that particular instance a few weeks ago. Nonetheless, I feel that I should be treated under the same 3RR rules as anyone else. I'm a very active user on talk pages, the sanctions imposed are more fitting for someone who reverts continually and/or ignores discussion while I do operate in good faith and try to engage as well as provide rationale behind my edits if disputes arise. --Львівське (говорити) 03:32, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

@DangerousPanda: I believe my track record does show greatly positive editing considering the volume I deal with, and positive interactions with other users far outweigh the few negative relationships (seeing as users I clash with come to my defense in, I would assume this is a rarity on wiki). Maybe my methods are a necessary evil? I'm not a bad guy.--Львівське (говорити) 16:32, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

@My very best wishes: This request is entirely unrelated to Stephen Sharpe's 3RR complaint. He had been after me for a while. I had been meaning to write this for a long time but just had no clue where to file this. I guess his harassment was a catalyst but not the sole cause.--Львівське (говорити) 18:55, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

@Stephen J Sharpe: Insinuating you were going to 'cut my balls off' and proceeding to 'nail' me for sanctions on the 23rd (dismissed) and then unprovoked again on the 30th for edits made on the 10th can indeed be seen as harassment. --Львівське (говорити) 20:30, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

@Stephen J Sharpe: If you truly wanted to avoid the noiceboard you wouldn't have filed a complaint 2 weeks after the fact when I was no longer engaged on the article. It seems, rather, than you went back in the logs to 'hunt' for a sequence of edits you could report me for; that is, not an active dispute. I don't know if you have better things to do, I can only go by your actions.--Львівське (говорити) 22:13, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Just want to point out that Epeefleche is not a neutral party here as he was engaged in an edit war with myself and several other WP:HOCKEY folks dating back to June over a BLP issue. He's currently arguing with me on my talk page at the moment. I should also point out that his diffs indicating I'm reverting are actually links to me talking on talk pages...so...glean his motivations as you will. --Львівське (говорити) 04:03, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

@Epeefleche: Since context is key , I was accused of, and was replying to a direct quote insinuating that I held an ‘’“apparent belief that being Jewish & Ukrainian is not possible”’’. I stand by this being a fabrication, as I never stated nor insinuated such a belief. It was probably a misunderstanding, but doesn’t make my defense of it any less staunch. Epeefleche, however, seems to be persistent in his vendetta against me, hounding me, and coming up with imaginary conspiracy theories about “patterns” in my editing; cherry picking select content disputes years apart. ‘’’It reminds me of Chief Wiggum trying to catch the cat burglar’’’. I should also point out that none of this has anything to do with the appeal/enforcement of sanctions nor my editing, so it seems this user is just trying to pile on me for his own enjoyment, which fits his MO thus far.--Львівське (говорити) 23:10, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Amendment

I think we should look at the log & sanctions section

On the 28th (October, 2011) I made one revert after a user (Voyevoda) engaged in disruptive activity (blanking, name calling another user in edit summaries). The user Voyevoda was blocked indefinitely for his conduct.

From these edit logs, it displays I never broke 3RR or even really got into an edit war in the first place. I tried to intervene in an ongoing dispute and made a single revert on a user who was so over the line he was blocked forever, and am still paying the price today. I was also heavily engaged with other users on the talk page. I wasn't a disruptive user but was punished as one.

If the question, as posed by Sandstein, is why the sanctions are no longer necessary, I would still argue that they weren’t really necessary in the first place. You guys are obviously looking at my block log and seeing that I’ve been without issue for over a year, and if we’re ignoring the couple hour timeout I got in Feb 2013 my last issue here was in March 2012. The issue in March 2012 was filed by Volunteer Marek, a guy who is standing up for me here. I think that says something. As others have noted, my conduct has been on the up as I’ve gotten more settled in here. I think this is a very good explanation as to why the topic sanction is no longer necessary.

If I need to show positive editing and positive user interactions, just look at my record. I used the quotes in my appeal to show that even users who I’m not always in agreement with support my being a contributor. Yes I've gotten into arguments, we all do at some point, but by and large I think that my editing is an asset to the community and this topic area, not a hindrance. Sanctions like this should be in effect for repeat offenders who need to stop breaking policy without dialogue, not people who engage honestly and actively who can go year(s) without issue.--Львівське (говорити) 17:49, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Statement by User:Future Perfect at Sunrise

Comments by others about the appeal by User:Lvivske

Statement of Alex Bakharev (talk)

I have a long history of interaction with Lvivske and quite often we were on opposing sides of numerous editorial disputes and I cannot help but notice that his behavior significantly changed to the better. He is much more civil and stricter follows the rules than three-five years ago. This is of course my own opinion, but there is a fact: most people subjected to 1RR remedy would become banned from the site in a year - usually if somebody is unable to follow general 3RR rules then they certainly could not obey 1RR - Lvivske on the other hand not only survived on 1RR remedy without being banned for more than two years, he was not even blocked for a single time since then.

Now there is a series of very important events occurring in Ukraine since 2014 Ukrainian revolution and 2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine. The whole world is now looking on Ukraine, a lot of new events and a lot of editorial activities attracts many new users. Some of new users are not aware of Misplaced Pages policies, some are very opinionated, some might be trolls. Ukraine is the main topic for Lvivske and he is trying his best to keep the related articles in shape doing a lot of usable work. His ability to do this work is strongly affected by this 1RR ban: if an important article has dozens of edits per day and many are done by new or biased editors or people with poor command of English then it is easy to formally violate 1RR restriction by just doing noncontroversial edits like fixing BLP issues, removing repeated info, fixing grammar, etc. I think we should give Lvivske a chance to work without interference from the 1RR restriction. If he started to edit problematically when it is just a few minutes from any uninvolved administrator to put him on the restriction again. Alex Bakharev (talk) 06:50, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Volunteer Marek

Actually, I don't have much to add that Alex above hasn't said already. Same thing. I often disagree/dispute with Lvivske (I think I got him blocked once long time ago). I think that over the last three years his behavior has gotten much better. And... oh, ok, I do have a bit to add: I don't think his behavior was all that bad to begin with. Just some usual minor stuff that happens in any sufficiently contentious topic area, but I've always found that if you actually approach Lvivske in a reasonable and respectful manner then... you get a reasonable and respectful conversation (which is A LOT, both on Misplaced Pages and in this topic area). I also agree with Alex that right now we really do need knowledgeable editors about Ukraine and Lvivske has a lot to contribute. The appeal is timely and well justified. Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:05, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

@User:Toddy1. Correlation is not causation. And anyway, by that logic we should slap some sanctions on anyone anywhere because "fear of sanctions will have a moderating effect on their behavior". You know, prevention, not punishment. You ready to volunteer to be first in line Toddy1? Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:28, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Statement of User:Toddy1

What Alex Bakharev says is all the more reason to maintain the current sanctions. The fear of sanctions has had a moderating effect on Lvivske's behaviour.--Toddy1 (talk) 07:17, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

@User:Mishae. The reason the wise admins put in the sanctions, was to preserve the benefits of Lvivske's enthusiasm, whilst trying to contain the bad effects of his/her behaviour. If I had been the admin I would have done an indefinite topic ban on any article to do with Jews or Ukraine. What you say, suggests that maybe the admins are wiser than me.--Toddy1 (talk) 08:18, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Statement of User:Cailil

Regarding Callanecc's note on rewording warnings. I would have no problem with my warning being reworded if its considered helpful by the admins here.
But given that this sanction (Future Perfect's) has stood for years. And seemed to be well understood I think changing my warning is quite pointless at this point - but if it helps I will not stand in the way of the log being undiffed and reworded (but linked to this thread) - but only in the case that is considered necessary by a consensus of sysops here.
Also if I remember correctly Shell Kinney notified Lvivske of the RFAR in 2009 as well--Cailil 10:36, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Also for the record Future Perfect granted Lviviske's unblock appeal of 72 hour block after 51 hours. he did not overturn or rescind my warning. He used his discretion in what was a normal non-AE block that any sysop could unblock without prejudice. Lviviske is confusing this non-AE action (the unblock) with overturning his notification of the existence of AC/DS (something that is impossible). Yes Volunteer Marek did file an AE thread against me. It was closed with "no action" (see here)--Cailil 10:56, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

As a constructive proposal if sysops want a reworded log at WP:DIGWUREN might I suggest:

Lviviske is notified of WP:DIGWUREN and the discretionary sanctions in place in that topic area

--Cailil 11:46, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

@Epeefleche For clarity Epeefleche the text you quote is from my block of Lviviske NOT the sanction he is appealing. Lviviske was not given an AE sanction by me. The sanction was applied by Future Perfect & his rationale is here--Cailil 11:12, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Could someone please have a word with the relatively new users using this page to cast vague aspersions about groups of people they see as being "the other side™" & general soapboxing--Cailil 10:04, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Statement of User:Stephen J Sharpe

Lvivske has already been operating for some time as if these sanctions do not apply. I recently cited 3RR violations and edit warring over on the noticeboard. The edit warring in question appear to be very similar in nature to the edit warring that brought about the original sanctions. Namely, Lvivske reverted multiple editors despite there being an ongoing conversation on the talk page where the emerging consensus supported the original text. Further, Lvivske has a history of attacking those who criticize him with personal attacks including repeated allegations that I am "headhunting" him, calling me "a nut", and yesterday accusing User:Solntsa90 of libeling him here. Clearly the status quo is not working - either the sanctions should be enforced or they should be removed. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 15:20, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

As if to prove my point, Lvivske characterizes my 3RR report as harassment above instead of assuming good faith. As I understand, this is the same uncooperative attitude that brought about these sanctions in the first place. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 19:43, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

@My very best wishes: A perceived "information war" is not a good reason to hold long-term contributors to a lower standard "against the rules". If anything, it seems to me that long-term editors should be held to a higher' standard because they should be expected to have a better understanding of Misplaced Pages rules. For example, Lvivske's misinterpretation of WP:CYCLE, as User:Callanecc points out below, is all the more troubling given that he's been editing for 6 years. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 16:51, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

@Lvivske: You misread it. I wrote that you had "cut off my balls" referencing our conversation where you called me "a nut" and removed it as soon as you complained. Why is 'nail' me in quotes? - I never used that language. So reporting you twice is harassment? I was active on both article when you made reverts that appeared to be a breach of your sanctions. I even tried to avoid the noticeboard for the 3RR violations by requesting help from User:Alex Bakharev but he didn't respond for a week. You could've assumed good faith; you could've asked me for an explanation; instead you accused me of "headhunting" multiple times as if I don't have better things to do. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 22:01, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

@Lvivske: The latest 3RR violations were committed on the 18th and I notified User:Alex Bakharev on the 24th so that's 6 days. I didn't report it at the time because I didn't know what 3RR was until User:My very best wishes explained it to me on the 22nd in this discussion. I waited a week without a response from User:Alex Bakharev about the 3RR reverts and only then reported it on the noticeboard. The fact that I waited 7 days should be seen by you as evidence that I'm not terribly interested in your affairs but instead you somehow saw as further evidence of headhunting. Again - you could've just asked me this on my talk page but instead you just assumed bad intentions and have prefaced every conversation involving us and a third party with the same claims of harassment. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 22:50, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

@My very best wishes: Disclosure of personal information? You mean that Lvivske is Ukrainian and from Lviv? That's proudly stated on his user page. Why are you suggesting I'm a sockpuppet and how is this relevant to what's being discussed? Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 22:07, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

@My very best wishes: Please don't remove your previous comments from the talk page if others have already responded to them. It's also considered bad form per WP:REDACT. You're over-analyzing what I wrote - it was a joke, perhaps in bad taste and I removed it as soon as Lvivske complained. I'm still learning Misplaced Pages etiquette so I thank you for your explanation. You and Lvivske are welcome to discuss any other concerns you have on my talk page but lets not get distracted from the issue at hand here. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 00:41, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

@Stephen J Sharpe: I know you might disagree with me but 3RR rule is sometimes being overused here to the point of it being a harassment to some users. Lets face it: As someone mentioned here that majority of users get blocked indefinitely within a year because of this rule and lets not forget, some users don't even know of the rule existence until its too late. If so, that's how we lose many good faith editors (Lvivske included).--Mishae (talk) 02:56, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

@Mishae: I can't agree or disagree as I've only been here 2 months. What I can say is this - I also didn't fully understand 3RR until User:My very best wishes kindly explained it to me in this discussion on March 22. My point being that I was editing for 48 days before I became aware of 3RR; Lvivske has been editing for 6 years but just a couple of weeks ago ran afoul of 3RR multiple times (while on 1RR restriction) as I reported on the noticeboard the day before he launched this appeal. For that reason, I am opposed to the sanctions being lifted. Stephen J Sharpe (talk) 14:46, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

@Stephen J Sharpe: I think we need to give him another chance, considering that all of us are still learning the nook and crannies of this project, and we are learning every day, and it doesn't matter if we are newbies or level 4 editors. I think in some cases users still need to be reminded here that Misplaced Pages is not a dictatorship, and that's why WP:IAR still exists. On a side note, in my opinion, Lvivske just have spring fever, it will pass by April, I hope. --Mishae (talk) 15:30, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Comment of User:My very best wishes

I think that editing restrictions to experienced editors (such as all three people sanctioned by FPS) should never be given for a period of time longer than six months because this gives unfair advantage to SPA accounts who are engaged in WP:BATTLE. This is the reason I agree with Alex and Marek that restriction must be lifted - per WP:IAR. My very best wishes (talk) 23:34, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

After looking at atrociously POV editing by SPA/sleepers in this subject area, I now believe my first judgement was correct. My very best wishes (talk) 20:51, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

@S.J. Sharpe. This is current version of userpage of Lvivske. No, it does NOT claim that he is a "Ukrainian" . Neither it claims he is from Lviv (he comes from Ontario) as you asserted in your comment, which I believe was completely inappropriate and an obvious violation of WP:NPA while editing in the area of discretionary sanctions you was warned about. I also did not call you "sockpuppet". I did suggest that an SP investigation might be helpful. Sorry! I agree with one of admins that such suggestions should only be made after a preliminary investigation and with diffs on appropriate (SPI) noticeboard. My very best wishes (talk) 23:54, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Let me clarify. In my opinion, what happens is not pro-Ukrainian users versus pro-Russian users. What happens is Misplaced Pages being successfully subverted to deliver political propaganda under disguise of NPOV. Here is just one of many examples. This page tells: "The leadership in Crimea and Sevastopol considered the ousting of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych in the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, which was supported by the United States and EU, as a coup ..." and so on. No, there was no any leadership of Crimea. From the moment the building of their parliament was taken over by Russian special forces (in the beginning of the operation, and very much like during Soviet war in Afghanistan, but only without killings), there was only Russian occupation administration in Crimea. I personally do not want to be any part of the project that delivers political propaganda. My very best wishes (talk) 09:52, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Statement of User:Paavo273

From my reading this appeal & the original blocking & reversal discussion, this vestigial sanction's status is analogous to fruit of the poisonous tree (lingering penalty from an overturned bad decision by an administrator the "fruit"). In real world, sanctions don't last ad infinitum, and in any case these IMO R clearly punitive, contrary to stated purpose4 sanctions. Parole & even probation expire. Kindalike judgment was overturned but judge neglected to vacate the sentence.

Lvivske appears IME to be one of few mainstays in building Ukraine-related content in the encyclopaedia, e.g., and . The few times our paths have crossed (he edits a lot more articles and creates a lot more content than I or most editors), Lvivske has been very helpful, e.g., I was working on an article when the founder of this site himself one day edited it. I mentioned this fact on the talk page and asked generally for some info. The very next day, Lvivske provided THIS. Another time I and some other editors were frustrated an article was so out of date it hardly even mentioned the reality on the ground in Ukraine. I posted this talk comment and Lvivske was the first to respond with a helpful link, which likely was a catalyst for transforming the article. I could cite many other examples where Lvivske is both a major sourced-content contributor and a help to less involved, less knowledgeable editors.

I’ve seen last few months exactly what Alex Bakharev (par2) & Volunteer Marek are talking about. Someone who knows how & cares must take time to write quality content & volume in order 4 the subject area 2B covered in something approaching encyclopaedic format and detail.

New comment 1 April (UTC): I agree mostly w/ the now deleted remarks of User:My very best wishes rel the state of "administrating" on Misplaced Pages. Well stated! I detect wikilawyering--esp. disregard for the core purpose of Misplaced Pages here. In admin. Callanec's 1st diff, he points to Lvivske's UNcontroversial correction of obvious error ('Never heard it any differently from what Lvivske corrected it to, EXCEPT ON WIKIPEDIA. I even saw RT report it correctly.) ‘Seems more interested in sticking it to Lvivske than having a factually accurate encyclopaedia to "administrate." Hamstring your core editors in their subject areas and see what happens to the quality of your encyclopaedia … It ‘BE happening & BEEN happening. I see wikilawyering in admin. Sandstein's & DP's remarks, too. I haven't seen a WP statute of limitations for correcting neglected reversible error (in the form of this per se punitive and unfair-to-start-with action). Paavo273 (talk) 01:33, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Additional comment 2 April (UTC): To respond to User:Epeefleche's "analysis" of Lvivske's "deletions of RS-supported material and RSs from the bio of a Jewish Ukrainian," the facts are not on Epeefleche's side. There is an ongoing dispute about the article subject's alleged Jewish ethnicity, the quality of evidence, it needing to meet BLP standards, and the subject himself scrupulously not self-identifying as of Jewish ethnicity. Lvivske got caught in the crossfire of an emerging edit-war between another user and myself. This is yet another hatchet job on Lvivske, although I am not questioning Epeefleche's GF; he may genuinely believe what he says, lacking in substance though it is. Paavo273 (talk) 00:06, 2 April 2014 (UTC) THANK YOU, User:My very best wishes, for your IMO excellent analysis. This is IMO a systemic problem that is destroying the integrity and credibility of Misplaced Pages. Paavo273 (talk) 18:02, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Statement of Epeefleche

I believe that the sanctions should stay in place.

I'm a neutral editor as to the initial matter for which Lvivske was sanctioned, as I was not involved in it.

Note that when the sanction Lviske is appealing from was applied, part of the explanation for the sanction was that:

"The fact that you are now edit-warring over your apparent belief that being Jewish & Ukrainian is not possible is pointy, incorrect, and contrary to the core policies of this site (source based, neutral point of view edits). You should be in no doubt User:Lvivske that further behaviour like this will be prevented by block if necessary."

But Lviske asserts that "after 2 years passing, I think I've learned my lesson." I find that statement astounding.

The very day he posted that, he was involved in this discussion relating to Jews on Ukraine-related articles. I believe his actions alluded to there and, his statements there (especially as to his deletions of RS-supported material and RSs from the bio of a Jewish Ukrainian, evidence precisely the opposite. He did so asserting faslely, among other things, that it is wp:OR to maintain the RS-supported text. (?!) And his assertions in that discussion are amazing in that they reflect either an utter lack of understanding, or an intentional bald effort to disrupt. No lesson has been learned, from what I can see.

Also during the pendency of his request, he is on a totally unrelated (but, also Ukraine-related) article again accusing Sage of OR for ... reflecting what the RS does in fact say. He seems to believe that it is OK for him to revert editors by using the phrase "OR", when the text he is deleting is just the opposite of OR.

The above matters in which he has taken these positions remain unresolved, so his tendentious but unsupportable positions have led to deletions of appropriate material.

Similarly, these problems on Jewish/Ukrainian articles are long-standing, from even before the incident that led to his above-discussed sanctions, as can be seen in the discussion initiated of his edits by Jayjg here.

Furthermore, I believe the warning should stay in place.

He wants it removed so that it won't "be ammo to use against me in the future." But it is precisely the sort of thing that we should have as background, when seeking to understand and weigh his editing and his comments in the afore-mentioned discussion, in which he "explains" his deletions. Without that background, we might fail to understand that this is part of an ongoing practice of his.--Epeefleche (talk) 03:27, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

In a post Lvivske left just today he accused sysop Cailil of -- in Cailil's Block and Warning post to Lvivske -- having "completely fabricated" facts, and made "false statements". This may perhaps further call into question whether Lvivske has not, as he maintains he has, "learned" his "lesson." Epeefleche (talk) 20:44, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Statement of User:Mishae

I know Lvivske since Euromaidan article was written here in early 2014. I must also add that I don't know Lvivske who was here 2, 5 or 6 years ago. I however need to point out that if anyone likes Lvivske as an editor here (me and Alex included), then they should at least lessen the sanctions. Otherwise we have a chance of losing a very knowledgeable editor. Besides, not many people know where Ukraine is and what its like, so this topic which Alex, Lvivske, @Yulia Romero:, (and sometimes me), try to expand upon is very important. We also need to keep in mind that Misplaced Pages is not a dictatorship (I am surprised that such rule wasn't included in what Misplaced Pages is not), and that's why we have WP:IAR which was ignored by admins and users who issued concern about Lvivske. Keep in mind, no one is perfect and Lvivske is as equal as everyone else, just because he violated 3RR rule doesn't mean he should be sanctioned. Now I wanna know the admins response to my comment above (I bet their talkpages aren't clean from block either, and if they are, then there are some hiding in their archives). Feel free to throw NPA rule if you please, but I tried to be civil.--Mishae (talk) 03:36, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Statement by User:Aleksandr Grigoryev

I know Lvivske for quite a bit. Frankly, he is very stiff in arguments and does like to press his point of view quite hard. Nonetheless, I cannot say that one may not find some common ground with Lvivske if he or she wishes. In general Lvivske might be a difficult to argue, but his civility and courtesy proves that he could be compromised and reasoned with. It would be a great loss for the Misplaced Pages community to have Lvivske locked out completely as he is a major editor on number of subjects that no one else edits. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 01:37, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Result of the appeal by User:Lvivske

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

These (from March 2014) seem like a violation of the 1RR/48hr restriction 1, 2 & 3 plus another 1 & 2. Lvivske explanation of the reverts as WP:CYCLE in progress (which it isn't as there is only one R in BRD) shows me that they don't understand the reason the restrictions were imposed (to make them discuss rather than revert) or what they actually mean. Given this I don't see a strong argument to remove or lessen the sanctions unless either the sanctioning admin wants to remove them or there are other arguments presented. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 03:30, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

I saw that it was resolved on the talk page but that still doesn't excuse the reverts in violation of your edit restriction. Also regarding the warning, there have been a (lot) of discussions about removing warnings from log pages and the agreement is that you can't un-notify or un-warn someone that discretionary sanctions are in effect so warnings therefore shouldn't be removed from the log page. Though they can be reworded, and I'm very open to considering that pending the logging admin's comments on the matter. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 03:40, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

After all this time, I would have expected to support this. However, the appellant's argument TODAY is that the original sanctions were wrong, and beats us up using random quotes to support that. This is not at all what I would have expected as a appeal. Any form of topic ban appeal, whether AE-imposed or community-imposed needs to show a) positive editing b) positive user interactions. There seems to be violations just RECENTLY of the imposed restrictions. As such, there's no possible way to vacate this as of yet. D P 12:16, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

As DangerousPanda says, it is not helpful to appeal a three-year old sanction with the argument that it ought not to have been imposed at that time. Rather, the appellant should tell us why the sanction is no longer necessary. As Callanecc shows above, Lvivske has recently violated the sanction and engaged in edit warring. The sanction seems therefore still to be necessary. Accordingly, I'd decline the appeal. Log entries are not to be removed. Sandstein 16:48, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

I personally feel that 1RR/48hr doesn't help currently. That being said, if a violation as recently occurred then it's not beneficial to remove it altogether. I would suggest the sanctions be altered to the standard 1RR per 24 hours on the same articles. I do not know whether the extra slowdown clause should be modified if the sanction is indeed altered. Penwhale (nonsecure) 19:03, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Given that the sanction has recently been broken I don't see why we should be lessening it. Plus given that it has been shown to be necessary (as shown by Lvivske recently breaking and edit warring) I am very hesitant to lessen it without first hearing from the sanctioning admin (@Future Perfect at Sunrise:). Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 22:35, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
- I think I'll declare neutral on this. Don't currently have the time to dig sufficiently deeply into Lvivske's recent editing to see if there are signs of continued tendentiousness or unconstructive conduct in disputes. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:22, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Discussion seems to have mostly stopped, and there is not the required clear consensus to undo or change the sanction. Without objection, I will (or perhaps somebody else will) close this appeal as unsuccessful tomorrow. Sandstein 16:18, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
- I agree there isn't consensus at this time. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 22:19, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
  - So closed. Sandstein 06:57, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Urartu TH

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Urartu TH

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Grandmaster (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 08:32, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Urartu TH (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:AA2

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Warned on February 21, 2014 by Grandmaster (talk · contribs)
Warned on March 15, 2014 by Sandstein (talk · contribs)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Urartu TH violated 3RR on an arbitration covered page Khojaly Massacre. Despite objections of other editors, he persistently adds his personal interpretation of a source into the lead of the article in violation of WP:OR, and edit wars to keep it there. I have already reported the 3RR violation, but since this is an arbitration area, this forum might be more appropriate for this violation. This user has been in Misplaced Pages for less than 2 months, but he already has one block for incivility. In addition, he makes questionable edits to Ukraine related articles, such as a BLP article Ihor Tenyukh, which as I understand is also an arbitration covered area, in particular calling him a member of a "neo-fascist" party: It appears that this user fails to understand the core WP policies such as WP:NPOV, WP:OR and WP:BLP. Grandmaster 08:32, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

As result of the report at WP:AN3, Urartu TH was blocked for 72 hrs: , in escalation of the previous block. As the enforcing admin noted, it is a second block in 3 weeks, and it is a result of continuing battleground approach. As the problematic editing of Urartu TH appears to be unlikely to stop, I believe it might be appropriate to consider placing him on an editing restriction in arbitration covered areas. Grandmaster 13:10, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

I would like to add the following in response to comments. First, the term "reprisal" is not found in any of the sources used in the article, and in particular in HRW report that Urartu TH was referring to. Neither are the terms "retaliation", "counterattack" or other words with similar meaning, nor do the sources imply that the massacre could have been a "reprisal", which as was noted here has quite a specific meaning. In fact, HRW explicitly places blame on the Armenian side, as do other third party sources that conducted their own investigations. So the edit was in a clear violation of WP:OR, which holds that "Source material should be carefully summarized or rephrased without changing its meaning or implication". Yet Urartu TH was introducing the term "reprisal" not found in any source, and as was also mentioned here was removing every instance of mentioning "Armenian forces" or "Armenian attack", so after his edits it was unclear who attacked whom. Me and other editors found his edit to be unacceptable, and made that clear to him both in edit summaries and at the talk of the article, which did not stop him from restoring that edit 4 times. And when Urartu TH says that I reverted without discussion, it is not true. It is enough to take a look at the talk of the article to see the proof of the contrary. Every time that he posted at talk in support of his edit, he was responded by either me or another editor, and despite there being a clear opposition to his edit, he proceeded to restore it every time he left a comment at talk. Judging from comments he left at his own talk page, where he says that his comments were "ignored", he believes that posting a comment entitles him to rv the page as many times as he likes, even if other editors disagree with his proposed edit, and if they disagree, they "ignore" his arguments, which of course is not so. I think this is where we have a problem. Grandmaster 10:31, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Urartu TH

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Urartu TH

Please note that Grandmaster (talk · contribs) has been asked to mind WP:HOUND in the past.

As to the issue at hand, any time I have attempted cited edits on Khojaly tragedy, the user has either deleted or modified the edits.

Please see for attempts at resolution in civil manner:

The user has been warned not to start an WP:EDITWAR various times in the article's edit page.

I have not added a single bit of interpretation to any edit. I merely used the word "reprisal" to define an attack by Armenian forces during the battle of Khojaly which relates to the article. I was opposed by the user in regards to this word. I explained that the chronology of the events clearly show that this was a reprisal attack but that a different term may be used. The user proceeded to simply begin reverting the page back to the previous form without discussion; they ignored my statements regarding the chronology of the events. I believe this is a violation of WP:CIV, WP:NPOV and goes against the spirit and reasons for WP:TP's.

Grandmaster (talk · contribs)'s attempt to have me sanctioned for an unrelated matter was deemed "not actionable" by Sandstein (talk · contribs) and Penwhale (talk · contribs).

As far the the Ukraine edits, the terms "neo-fascist" or "neo-nazi" were taken from a cited source .

I don't see evidence of wrongdoing on my part and would like to further discuss this with a third-party. Please let me know if any other proofs are required and I will gladly provide them.--Urartu TH (talk) 09:22, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Statement by NE Ent

I think ya'll can DS individual editors but I don't think you can 1RR the entire article NE Ent 20:03, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Urartu TH

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I see a quite clear 3RR violation (4 reverts in quick succession, within a single hour, against three different users on the other side); combined with an ongoing pattern of aggressive editing and reverting during the previous days; combined with previous warnings and blocks for misbehaviour in the same topic domain, combined with an overall editing profile almost exclusively focussed on national POV issues. That's a case for a topic ban in my book. I notice somebody else blocked him for 72 hours in the meantime, evidently in response to the AN3 report, but I see no reason why that should stop us from considering the longterm side of the matter here too. Fut.Perf. ☼, 16:45, 5 April 2014‎ (UTC)
The thing is, I believe Grandmaster's 2 reverts also makes him run afoul of the AA2 DS (and Grandmaster was previously sanctioned under ARBAA2 in 2008). And the word reprisal's primary meaning according to many dictionaries is counterattack, and if I'm reading the events chronologically, it is a counteroffensive (though may not be the best choice of word, it shouldn't have been reverted war over anyway). I would sanction both Grandmaster and Urartu TH for this. - Penwhale | 17:12, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
- We are probably going down a dangerous road when we here as admins try to re-debate the merits of the dispute, but since you brought up a possible content legitimization regarding the term "reprisal", then no, "reprisal" doesn't simply mean "counter-attack". It has a very specific meaning in the law of war, and that meaning carries a very strong and obvious POV implication: a reprisal is a measure that, while normally forbidden, can be seen as legitimate in a particular situation. Calling the massacre a "reprisal" is making the definite claim that the massacre was legally justified. The immediate rejection of that edit as illegitimate OR by three other editors was thus understandable and clearly legitimate. Coupled with the other change of wording that served to de-emphasize Armenian agency in the events, we have all the marks of a POV-driven edit on Urartu's part. As for the two reverts, I'm extremely hesitant to hand out sanctions for 2R as long as we haven't formally put the thing under an explicit 1RR rule. If you think that a general 1RR would be beneficial to the article, let's by all means place it under one (I assume that's possible under the current version of disc.sanctions, isn't it?) but as long as that's not in place, I believe editors are entitled to a certain measure of reliability of rules, and suddenly placing the sanctions threshold that low would smack of arbitrariness. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:52, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

You are right. Also, based on the discussions at the article talk page, this article already needs specific sanctions set down. 1RR and a binding move discussion for a specific period of time (if a RM is requested) would be a good start. - Penwhale | 02:41, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
Addendum: Also, my AGF-ness still leads me to believe that the block placed on Urartu TH is due to violation of the 3RR rule and not specific to the ARBAA2 sanction, in case anyone's wondering my position on that. - Penwhale | 02:42, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Comment: Yes, my block was based on the 3RR report - I was unaware of the existence of this filing at that time D P 10:40, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Rich Farmbrough

Request concerning Rich Farmbrough

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Fram (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 13:39, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Rich Farmbrough (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Rich Farmbrough#Rich Farmbrough prohibited from using automation :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

04:49 8 April 2014: whether the original page was created using automation may be hard to prove (although everything points in that direction as well). But this subsequent edit is clearly not manually made. Every instance of " (*" (an opening bracket preceded by a space, plus every character after that on the same line) has been removed, no matter if that was wanted or not. The result is that you get changes like:

Albategnius (al-Battani) (1333*) to [[Albategnius
Alhazen (al-Haitam) (2490*) to [[Alhazen
Alicia (344*) Boole (340*) to [[Alicia
Julia (1945*) Bowman (1924*) to [[Julia
ibn Sina (1984*) (1965*) to [[ibn Sina
Anna (530*) Johnson (516*) to [[Anna
Lord (2752*) Kelvin (2702*) to [[Lord
Leonardo of Pisa (2250*) (2223*) to [[Leonardo of Pisa

And about ten further instances of the same pattern. Perhap others will see this as a manual edit nevertheless, but to me it certainly matches "For the purposes of this remedy, any edits that reasonably appear to be automated shall be assumed to be so.".

06:27 6 April 2014 This one is taken from the end of this document, pages 104-105 (or from a different site with the same information and formatting, his page lists no source); note how, in Rich's article, four companies have a name ending in (a); 79 TOTAL Deutschland GmbH(a), Germany, 191 TOTAL Petrochemicals & Refining S.A. / NV(a), Belgium, 192 TOTAL Petrochemicals & Refining USA Inc. (a), United States, and 207 TOTAL UK Limited (a), United Kingdom. These just happen to be the same four companies that have a "*" after their name in the original document, indicating a footnote for "multi-segment entities". It seems unlikely that Rich Farmbroug made the same typo four times, matching exactly these four "starred" companies, the only ones to have that extra bit.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

While the first (and most obvious) violation is in userspace (which falls under the restriction but is of course less critical than the mainspace), I don't think it makes sense to wait until it goes really, badly wrong again; that was the reason the restriction was implemented, to prevent further problems. Not following the restriction, so soon after coming back from a year-long block for the same, seems a clear case of having no intention to follow the restriction at all.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Rich Farmbrough

Statement by Rich Farmbrough

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Rich Farmbrough

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

The request has merit. The edits submitted as evidence can only be the result of an (apparently malformed) search-and-replace command. Search-and-replace is a form of prohibited automation under the terms of the Committee's motion of 6 June 2012, which provides that Rich Farmbrough "is directed ... to make only completely manual edits (i.e. by selecting the button and typing changes into the editing window)". The previous violation of this restriction, also for search-and-replace edits, resulted in a one-year block, the maximum allowed under the enforcement provision. Without objection by another admin, I will impose another one-year block. Sandstein 18:10, 8 April 2014 (UTC)