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<Announcement> Motion adopting new Discretionary sanctions procedure_Motion_adopting_new_Discretionary_sanctions_procedure-2014-05-03T21:46:00.000Z">

The Arbitration Committee has resolved by motion:

That the updated Discretionary sanctions procedure supersedes and replaces all prior discretionary sanction provisions with immediate effect.

The updated Discretionary sanctions procedure can be read at the Motions page and at the DS information page.

For the Arbitration Committee, AGK 21:46, 3 May 2014 (UTC)_Motion_adopting_new_Discretionary_sanctions_procedure"> _Motion_adopting_new_Discretionary_sanctions_procedure">

Discuss this

Heracletus

Mallexikon

76.107.171.90 and Barney the barney barney

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning 76.107.171.90 and Barney the barney barney

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Askahrc (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 06:53, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

• 76.107.171.90 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

  Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

• Barney the barney barney (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

  Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

(Please forgive the slightly unusual format; these two editors both have a history of the same style of NPA toward me, often support one another, have been warned in the same AE previously and recently began attacking me at the same time, so it made sense to include them both)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Pseudoscience#Discretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

76.107.171.90

1. May 5, 2014 76.107.171.90 posted “Cap’n McDouche” on Guy's Talk page, containing the vulgarity in the title, an attempt to insult me with a homophobic profanity and many aspersions against myself and other editors (Littleolive oil & Liz), all while suggesting to other editors plans to get me blocked. He also suggests accusing me of violating a community block that does not exist, a tactic which has wasted the time of admins in the past (see further comments). WP:CIVIL, WP:NPA, WP:ASPERSIONS.

Barney the barney barney

1. May 4, 2014 Barney states that I am incompetent, likely due to a severe mental impairment that he links to.
2. May 4, 2014 Barney clarifies his remarks to state that regardless of what illness I do/don't possess, I am too grossly incompetent in every way to be aware of my own ignorance.
3. May 4, 2014 When Littleolive oil informed Barney that it was unacceptable to imply other editors have mental illnesses, Barney called her ignorant.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. April 3, 2014 AE Results discussion in which both Barney and 76 are judged to be violating NPA. The admin wished to block Barney completely, but settled for another warning.
2. April 3, 2014 76's 2 day blocking for WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA while proclaiming that I was involved in a conspiracy to damage WP.
3. February 23, 2014 I noticed that an archived ANI had been tampered with by Barney, so I reverted the edit and reminded Barney that editing ANI Archives was frowned upon. Barney then told me that I was too incompetent to understand WP and insisted on reediting the archive. He was then sanctioned for edit-warring the archive.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked. (76, Barney)
• Barney placed on Pseudoscience Sanction Log for incivility and aspersion. (Barney, Barney)
• Both Barney and 76 participated in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on April 3, 2014.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

76.107.171.90 (talk) and Barney the barney barney have been sanctioned and repeatedly warned respectively for violating WP:CIVIL & WP:NPA toward me in the past. I have not pursued any interaction with either of them since then, but recently they have both begun making personal attacks and casting aspersions about my integrity, sexuality and mental health.

• 76.107.171.90 posted “Cap’n McDouche” on Guy's Talk page, accusing me of writing on an off-wiki page (the content was lifted from months-old postings on my Talk page and I had no involvement or input in their posting on the website, which the website openly states). 76 then attempted to insult me with unacceptably homophobic profanity:

"He has now posted another polemic on Tumbleman’s website in which he indicates that he is “investigating dicks” on Misplaced Pages. And while I have no doubt that Askahrc has an extreme interest in dicks, I think it’s high time that this situation be rectified."

This reflects the vulgarity 76 used with me previously and when he called someone a "diehard retard." 76 then bragged they've intentionally been trying to provoke me

"When I first goaded Askahrc into providing evidence against himself at his own sock puppet investigation more than two months ago I figured that Askahrc would be a self-rectifying problem once I got the ball rolling.")

and refers to me as a "hardcore bully" (I've never interacted with 76 except to get him to stop harassing me). 76 denounces Littleolive oil as "harassing" and Liz as "the consort of every major fringe pusher".

Finally, 76 proposes various ideas on how to get me blocked,

"I can think of several strategies, but I think the most obvious is to get him for being a meat puppet. Alternately, I could dust off the old community block (it’s still “on the books”)."

I presume the block's status is in quotes because both Barney and 76 have been falsely stating I have a community block even after admins have told them that I have none. This continuing falsehood has led to wasted time on an AN by an admin fooled into thinking there was an actual block on me.

• Barney posted on an AN board that I was too incompetent to contribute to sourcing a page, explaining that

"This may be due to the Dunning–Kruger effect."

The Dunning-Kruger effect states that grossly incompetent people are too ignorant to recognize their own mental disability, and compares its effect to severe brain injury. Barney further explains

"I do not really care what illnesses askahrc (talk · contribs) has. What I do accuse askahrc (talk · contribs) of is rank incompetence, contrary to WP:COMPETENCE, and lacking even the basic competence to understand that he's not competent." 1

then insists he has proof of my ignorance & incompetence without sharing it.

After referring to Dunning-Kruger as an illness himself, Barney then calls Littleolive oil ignorant for decrying his calling another editor mentally ill. This violates WP:CIVIL (and logic...).

76 and Barney each have a history of personal attacks, vulgarity and casting aspersions. They've been directly warned/sanctioned about this numerous times and yet continue to attack myself and others. The Cap'n (talk) 06:53, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Please note that I acknowledge Sandstein's request that any future AE's (let's hope not) be divided into separate filings for each involved editor for convenience. The Cap'n (talk) 08:41, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

@76, this falls under ARBPSEUDO discretionary sanctions because A) Every single person you reference in your rant has been connected to WP:ARBPSEUDO in one way or another B) it's where you were warned to avoid this exact behavior (ie. accusing me of conspiring with someone associated with Pseudoscience), C) you specifically refer to wanting to stop "fringe pushers" in your rant.

Also, please note (as I mentioned on Guy's Talk and again here) that I did not write anything on that website. I only wrote what was on my talk page, which was entitled "Case Files," included no profanity, personal attacks or even the names of people I supposedly disagree with. The owner of the website edited and renamed it himself without my input. Please stop asserting that I added that material to the website or named it. The Cap'n (talk) 08:41, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

@Sandstein Thank you.

@Barney, aside from the PA nature of constantly referring to my supposedly debilitating incompetency (with no diffs of any such incompetent acts), the condition of Dunning-Kruger that you link to describes the condition "Dunning has since drawn an analogy ("the anosognosia of everyday life") with a condition in which a person who suffers a physical disability because of brain injury..." I don't care whether it's technically a mental illness or a mental condition, it's inappropriate to claim an editor is mentally impaired for disagreeing with you, especially without evidence.

Your references to Vzaak's repeated accusations make no sense and have no bearing on your conduct here. Despite my arguments to the contrary, Vzaak got admins to determine it was "Fairly Likely" that I was linked to inappropriate IP activity; I was warned and respect the system enough to accept the admins' decision. Are you referring to that settled matter from last year, or to the failed attempts since then by Vzaak to get me blocked, which included an AE set aside due to a complete lack of evidence (sound familiar?) and another SPI accusation (this one rightfully dismissed) that claimed I was issuing death threats and committing crimes under an IP? Neither a settled case nor a slew of dismissed accusations makes your position any stronger, or your personal attacks any less offensive. The Cap'n (talk) 12:26, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

@Liz & Sandstein, I am of the same opinion as Liz that these back and forths are wasting the community's time and not improving behavior. I have no desire to find excuses to get editors blocked, whether they dislike me or not, but I've tried ignoring these personal attacks and they only escalate and turn into canvassing efforts to get me banned. If I don't respond then my name, reputation and record get misrepresented, I get AN's pushed against me on the basis of easily falsifiable claims and risk getting banned from WP from PA's run amok. I am all for Liz & Sandstein's suggestion of interaction bans for those involved (76, Barney, plus possibly JzG and Vzaak). I honestly have no interest in harassing these editors, and if I knew they weren't actively trying to get me banned I'd never again have to spend an admin's time on these things. As I recommended in my AR, I think IBANs would dramatically decrease hostility, frivolous accusations and timewasting. The Cap'n (talk) 18:49, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

@Hipocrite, the "screed" that is clearly in my name from several months back was a statement I provided to the owner of that site, of which I promptly posted notice on my Talk page for transparency (that's how most people know about it). In it I neither named or attacked any editors, but said that WP should not be about finding excuses to ban editors we disagree with. I reiterated throughout that I believed WP was better than POV hostility and would rise above this kind of squabbling. Not exactly the 95 Theses. Every one of the few other interactions I've had with that person was logged on my Talk page to demonstrate that I was not collaborating or endorsing him. After going through all that trouble to be overly transparent every step of the way, why would I then post materials on his site, not mention it, then deny involvement after the fact despite the fact it's obviously my content? Use a little logic, here. The Cap'n (talk) 19:02, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

@Hipocrite, do not misrepresent what I've said, please. I've never initiated a conflict or sought to ban editors for disagreeing with me, I've only asked admins to step in when editors ignore my attempts to be civil and make personal attacks, lie about me having TBANs, use profanity ("douche, dick-hole, shit-on-a-stick, troll, diehard retard," to name a few) and make homophobic slurs. Are you really defending those practices?

Also, how do you turn "I've made ONE statement to this person months ago and I was open about when and why" into "you're not denying you regularly supply content"? Either you're not listening or you're intentionally misrepresenting what I said, but either way I urge you to be more conscientious. In the same vein, I've said I had no connection to the Chopra death threat (that was before I ever edited there), Checkusers have said I had no connection to the death threat and admins have said I have no connection to the death threat. You've been informed of this on Talk pages and in this AE, so continuing Vzaak's implication that I was involved in the death threat incident is venturing into WP:ASPERSIONS. Considering how many names I've been called in the past couple days in response to asking editors to be civil, I think it's a little odd that people are claiming I'm being unreasonable. The Cap'n (talk) 20:54, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

• 76.107.171.90
• Barney the barney barney
• Littleolive oil
• Liz
• Guy

Discussion concerning 76.107.171.90

Discussion concerning Barney the barney barney

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Barney the barney barney

This is entirely frivolous complaint by Askahrc (talk · contribs) who has a history of filing such frivolous cases to the authorities.

I stand by every comment I have made about Askahrc (talk · contribs) - but not those he has now repeatedly lied about, even after being corrected.

To clarify for a second time: I do not believe that Askahrc (talk · contribs) is basically WP:COMPETENT to edit articles related to WP:FRINGE material, and in this assessment most users probably agree with me. Askahrc apparently believes he is competent, despite generally being in a minority of one. I suggest that this self-assessment is due to the Dunning–Kruger effect. This is not a mental illness. What is says is that those who are not competent to do something also tend to overestimate their competence to do that thing.

I'd also like to clarify my opinion that Askahrc (talk · contribs) is only not capable of editing WP:FRINGE-related articles. It is important to note that these articles require more competence to edit than non-controversial articles. My statement about his lack of competence is specifically with this area in which a great deal of competence is indeed required.

I'm not quite sure how Misplaced Pages can proceed if an assessment of a user's competence is now to be construed as a personal attack.

Ironically, given this attempt at enforcement, my opinion was intended to prevent askahrc (talk · contribs) from trying to implement what he'd regard as "mediation" between those who are sceptical of WP:FRINGE theories (in line with the WP:MAINSTREAM point of view) and those who are very much in favour of them. From my experience with Rupert Sheldrake, he'd be extremely arrogant and patronising, selectively ignore Misplaced Pages policy, try to impose his own views, and generally create entirely unnecessary WP:DRAMA.

In my opinion, Askahrc (talk · contribs) is basically a troll, who like others is anti-WP:FRINGE and anti-Misplaced Pages. WP:NOTHERE is appropriate. Vzaak (talk · contribs) has shown his attempts to use sockpuppets to troll.

I suggest that no clearer case of WP:BOOMERANG exists. Barney the barney barney (talk) 11:12, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Statement by JzG

Prior discussions involving the filing party:

• Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Askahrc/Archive
• Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Pseudoscience: "Askahrc warned"
• Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Pseudoscience: "Askahrc (talk · contribs) is strongly admonished for using an IP address to harass other users and waste the community's time (see the SPI). Askahrc is warned that any attempt to harass other users, waste the community's time or edit logged out or with another account in contravention of WP:SOCK will result in an extended block. Askahrc is also restricted to using the Askahrc account only when editing pseudoscience or fringe science related topics and is banned from notifying any user of pseudoscience or fringe science discretionary sanctions. See the warning for further information."
• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive147#Askahrc: "Tabled for now, with the understanding that there is a low bar for reporting newer disruption."
• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive143#Barleybannocks, advocating for a user who was topic banned as a result of the discussion.

That's not bad for a user with fewer than 300 mainspace edits in over five years as a registered user.

The filing party also neglected to mention the fact that he was found using sockpuppets to attack Barney the barney barney, one of the two accounts against whom he requests sanctions. (Note: Taken on trust from prior discussions, I'm digging for diffs; false claims have also been made against Askahrc in the past).

I find this user's behaviour vexing. As Barney suggests, he is engaging himself in complex and difficult disputes around an area where he shows a clear lack of understanding (or perhaps outright rejection) of Misplaced Pages policy. Having been involved at the Rupert Sheldrake (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) article, Askahrc then presents himself as a neutral mediator at Deepak Chopra (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). Chopra is a prominent supporter of Sheldrake, and vice-versa. Tim Farley analysed his editing pattern and found him to be one of a small group of people engaged in this area, whose involvement is heavily skewed towards meta-debate not content editing: . The other partisans included Alfonzo Green (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), Barleybannocks (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and Tumbleman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). This seems to me to be a group of editors who have decided to Right Great Wrongs by redressing the "balance" against fringe and pseudoscientific claims, primarily related to Sheldrake, IMO.

What we do not need is editors with virtually no article editing experience, asserting themselves to be mediators in contentious biographies. The Chopra article at the moment is subject to long walls of text from a user representing the Chopra media office, now is not a good time for the well intentioned but seriously inexperienced (the most charitable interpretation, the Dunning-Kruger effect), and it's a terrible time for a troll, which is what I am afraid I think Askahrc is.

Lack of competence, lack of experience, deliberate mischief, failure to accept Misplaced Pages policy - whatever the problem, I think this is a user who needs ot keep away form biographies related to fringe topics, and possibly from all fringe and pseudoscience. Guy (Help!) 12:03, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

@Sandstein: feel free to point out what is insulting about this, I am merely pointing out the facts as I see them. This is a user who presents himself as a potential mediator, with fewer than 300 mainspace edits and a history of dispute on contentious articles. He does not understand Misplaced Pages well enough to understand why this is a problem, does not understand why involvement on the Sheldrake article is equivalent to involvement in the Chopra article (i.e. WP:COMPETENCE) and the sockpuppetry speaks for itself. I find his behaviour, as I say, vexing. In what way is that not a civil way of stating the issue? As I say, I am open to the possibility that this is well-intentioned, but it must be said that there is an appearance of trolling, in the classic sense of the term. This user has stated an agenda against WP:FRINGE and in favour of a more sympathetic treatment of an advocate of fringe science (and in the process a rather banned user) , now removed from the original. If that's OK by everyone then I will forget about it, no problem. What I see is someone who was marginally active for a long time then became very active in talk space just when Sheldrake started pressing for more sympathetic (and less NPOV) coverage. It sets the spidey-senses tingling. And yes, it's easy to misjudge in these cases, but it's also easy to AGF to excess. Is there a difference between a lengthy description of behaviour that may justly be represented as, at the very least, a red flag, accompanied by a very brief and clearly identified expression of personal opinion, and a blatant attack? I think there might be. Remember: we are talking about articles here that have, for a long time, seen a steady stream of newly interested and/or new users all advancing the same POV. Those of us who bother to watch them would appreciate more eyes, it would materially improve the burnout rate. Guy (Help!) 16:47, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Nomoskedasticity

Sandstein is grossly mistaken in believing that it is a "personal attack" (and therefore prohibited) to observe that another editor is incompetent or even grossly incompetent. Some editors are indeed incompetent and cause no end of trouble at Misplaced Pages. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 12:43, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Roxy the dog

Although the sanctions imposed by Sandstein on 76.107.171.90 may well be covered by a liberal interpretation of the policies and guidelines of wikipedia, they are way outside the spirit of them, and should be reconsidered. It is the worst, most unjustified, admin action I have seen, in my admittedly limited experience here. -Roxy the dog (resonate) 15:13, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Liz

I have also been attacked by Barney, right in an arbitration request and elsewhere, but I'm not filing a complaint or adding it to this one. It is Barney's habit to treat those he doesn't respect with caustic disdain. I'm not sure if a block will change this kind of attitude.

What is more troubling is to see all of the claims and counterclaims between @76, Vzaak, The Cap'n, Barney and sometimes Guy on AN/I, AN and A/R/E. It's ridiculous for editors to look for reasons to get other editors blocked and then the second editor to file a similar complaint against the first editor another week later for harassment. I know it must be tiresome for admins to see these same parties mentioned in a complaint, in a tit-for-tat series. This needs to stop and it shouldn't be stopped by trying to get other users indefinitely blocked from Misplaced Pages.

It would be preferable for all editors working on topics that fall under the pseudoscience area to not "track" each other's edits and give each other a wide berth. If that is not possible because of similar interests, it is important to remember civility even when an editor questions another's competence. To repeat the fourth pillar of Misplaced Pages:

"Fourth pillar: Editors should treat each other with respect and civility: Respect your fellow Wikipedians, even when you disagree. Apply Misplaced Pages etiquette, and don't engage in personal attacks. Seek consensus, avoid edit wars, and never disrupt Misplaced Pages to illustrate a point. Act in good faith, and assume good faith on the part of others. Be open and welcoming to newcomers. If a conflict arises, discuss it calmly on the nearest talk pages, follow dispute resolution, and remember that there are 4,508,769 articles on the English Misplaced Pages to work on and discuss."

I know that every editor is aware of these words but they speak directly to the issue of respecting other editors, whether or not you agree with their position. The fourth pillar doesn't allow for exceptions for pseudoscience or Eastern Europe or Israel/Palestine, in fact, one can make a good argument that in these contentious topics, civility is even more important than in areas where there is less conflict. Liz 13:29, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

@Roxy, how, specifically, does a block for harassment go against "the spirit" of the policy and guidelines of Misplaced Pages? What makes @76's and @Barney's behavior justified? Are there specific exceptions to civility policy based on the type of articles one chooses to edit? Liz 15:30, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

@Hipocrite, as far as I understand it, Tumbleman lifted the content he used for that blog post (which doesn't mention any editor by name) from TheCap'n's user pages. There is also a page composed of quotes of mine, taken from discussions on talk pages, AN/I and ARBCOM, which I was neither informed of nor was my permission asked. But no one is accusing me of "collaborating" with a blocked user.

As for the SPI in November, an IP was posting discretionary sanction notices on user talk pages, an activity several of the editors commenting here have also done. The investigation concluded there was a likely a connection between the two accounts, TheCap'n was given a block admonished and the incident has not reoccurred. Six months later, I assume if there was newer evidence of sockpuppeting, there is a variety of editors who would not hesitate to share it. But suggesting that editors should be "waiting for him to make a mistake large enough (like sockpuppeting again) that you can civilly report", is not a helpful attitude to foster collaboration. And that should be the goal here. Liz 17:21, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

@Hipocrite, all I know is that TheCap'n has shared his thoughts about the Sheldrake talk page conflict, at length, on his user pages. Truthfully, I don't know where that blog post originally came from and I think it has actually been removed from the website. I can't say anything about its creation with any certainty but as far as I'm concerned, the material discussed the unfriendly climate on Misplaced Pages, it didn't mention any editors by name, it's gone now and, most importantly, it's off-wiki behavior so there is no verification of its origins or authorship. If it is accepted as evidence at ARBCOM, so must every comment on Wikipediocracy or other sites like that. For the record, I would feel completely differently if there had been outing involved but the post contained nothing like that. Liz 19:11, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Statement by User:Hipocrite

Barney, don't you get it? Misplaced Pages doesn't care if you are collaborating off wiki with a banned user to insult and harass editors here . It doesn't care if you are creating strawman sockpuppeets to try to further your side in a dispute by making your opposition look weird . It cares ONLY, and I repeat this ONLY that you do not, under any circumstances, make anyone feel even a little bad - unless, of course, you are a complete fringe lunatic - then you can make people who have spent countless hours trying to make an encyclopedia useful and accurate waste countless hours because we wouldn't dare get rid of someone who was new! Now, apologize for saying that Askahrc was generally incompetent, and proceed on with ignoring everything he says while waiting for him to make a mistake large enough (like sockpuppeting again) that you can civilly report his completely disruptive actions. Thanks! Hipocrite (talk) 16:33, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Hey, Liz, do you think he lifted the text on "Next steps: The Capn," linked via cache above from Misplaced Pages - because we both know he certainly did not - that was written specifically for the site by The Capn himself. "Fostering collaboration" takes everyone, not just people you disagree with doing something. How does writing screeds for tumbleman's blog foster collaboration, exactly? Hipocrite (talk) 17:51, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Askahrc: "WP should not be about finding excuses to ban editors we disagree with." Askahrc: "Please ban these editors I disagree with." At least you're not denying you regularly supply content to Tumbleman offwiki. Are you the one who told Chopra about the vandalistic death threats? Hipocrite (talk) 19:17, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Barney the barney barney

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

The request has merit. While the comments by Barney the barney barney at issue and on this page do not allege a mental illness on the part of Askahrc, they are noneless insulting, in that they call Askahrc "a troll", "anti-Misplaced Pages" and grossly incompetent. Such conduct is prohibited, see WP:NPA. Editors are expected to avoid personalizing disputes and to focus discussions on article content and sources, rather than on the persons of others. Barney the barney barney did the opposite here. I recall that Barney the barney barney has twice been warned against similar misconduct, in December 2013 by me and in April 2014 by Callanecc. The edits are within the scope of the Pseudoscience discretionary sanctions because they were made in a WP:ANI discussion about conduct regarding the article Deepak Chopra, which is concerned with issues related to pseudo- or fringe science. I am of the view that Barney the barney barney should be banned from interacting with Askahrc. Because the statement by JzG above is similar in (insulting) substance to that of Barney the barney barney, if somewhat more moderate in tone, I am also considering whether a similar sanction would be appropriate with regard to JzG. What do others think?

As to the allegations by Barney the barney barney and JzG regarding misconduct by Askahrc, they are merely assertions without evidence, and are therefore, in my view, disruptive rather than useful.  Sandstein  12:15, 7 May 2014 (UTC)