User talk:Crisco 1492: Difference between revisions

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			== A barnstar for you! ==

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			\|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" \| '''The Original Barnstar'''
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			\|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" \| Thanks for your review on the RBS, but especially the work you did on the images: it is, as always, much appreciated! Cheers – ] (]) 18:19, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
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This user is willing to be contacted in Indonesian.

For me.

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Advice on avoiding an edit war

Crisco, there's a bit of an issue on the Back-up Plan and Old Dog New Tricks articles. Both are Glee episodes, and I've nominated both for DYK; the former just got off the main page, and the latter has just been promoted there.

The issue is with the episode and article titles. The naming has been inconsistent coming from "official" sources: the Fox press releases and publicity photo pages on foxflash.com used "Back-Up Plan" and "Old Dog New Tricks", so that's what I went with when I created the articles. (Note that I lowercased "up" because of MOS capitalization guidelines.) I also explained my reasoning at the time on both article's talk pages.

Some sources, including Amazon and the EP released with the episode's music, have included the article and a comma respectively—"The Back-Up Plan" and "Old Dog, New Tricks". Others, including the viewable episode on Hulu (Fox is a part owner) use neither. I think both versions are certainly possible, but haven't seen what I consider to be a definitive game-changer yet. Artmanha, another user, believes he has, and he has been changing the names and then posting his reasoning, which I haven't found convincing. I have, however, tried to engage him (much like BRD suggests), but he changes and explains, rather than explains and tries to come to a consensus.

He moved "Back-up Plan" to "The Back-Up Plan (Glee)" today while the article was on the main page as the former; I moved it back, explained that I thought it was inappropriate but in any event "Up" should be "up", and that we should discuss it on the article talk page and wait to move until consensus is achieved. He moved it again (and posted to the Talk page), though fortunately not until six minutes before it left the main page; it again uses the MOS-inappropriate "Up". I'd like to avoid any name changes to "Old Dog New Tricks" while the article's on the DYK section of the main page (another 11 hours), though it's less critical because the article name isn't directly stated in the hook.

This is my first disagreement verging on an edit war. I don't want to get even close to 3RR, so I was wondering what I should do at this point. Since you're uninvolved (and probably uninterested in Glee), I thought I'd ask your opinion of this state of affairs. Thank you very much; I appreciate your time. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:22, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

I'd just try and talk about it on the talk page (and make sure to link to the MOS which supports "up" being miniscule). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:26, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

So be the first to talk without reverting? I can try that. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:43, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Y'know, I'm damned if I can find that bit of MOS, though I was sure I'd run into it before, and when I look at outside authorities like The Chicago Manual of Style, I can't find it there, either. I also can't find any example here that supports it, and also could have sworn I'd run into this situation previously with words that are correct both hyphenated and closed (like "back-up" and "backup"). The odd thing is that the 2010 movie, "The Back-up Plan", uses lowercase for its publicity poster, and that may be where the lowercase "up" came from. So I may not be correct that "up" ought to be lowercase. You wouldn't happen to know for sure? BlueMoonset (talk) 15:49, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Try MOS:CT: "In hyphenated terms, capitalize each part according to the applicable rule": I think "up" should fall into the lower case categroy on that basis, for what it's worth. Hope that helps! - SchroCat (talk) 16:09, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

That raises the question of "Up" being used as a direction, or as something else. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:59, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

FAC notice

I'm notifying editors who commented at the Sgt. Pepper peer review to inform them that I've nomed the article at FAC. GabeMc 18:07, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
- Tomorrow, hopefully. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 18:08, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
  - Thanks, Crisco! GabeMc 18:11, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
	Despite a disagreement on content for the main page this week, I sincerely appreciate all of your efforts, your assumption of good faith, and persistent politeness despite the heated conversation. Thank you so much. :) SarahStierch (talk) 19:48, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, Sarah. My apologies if any of my comments seem sharper than they should, and for the drama (on both sides) which seems to have arisen out of this. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:15, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Setangan Berloemoer Darah

Hello! Your submission of Setangan Berloemoer Darah at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 23:16, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Please see new note on DYK nomination page. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 21:02, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Purnendu Dastidar

Crisco, this has been sitting for about a month and a half, seemingly at an impasse. Can I ask you to please break that impasse? Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:33, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

I've commented. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:04, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I hope that gets it moving again. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:12, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

One would hope. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:15, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Sebuah foto dari "Nieuwe Rotterdamsch Courant"

Pak Woodrich, ini sy ad foto dari koran itu ttg Karel Albert Rudolf Bosscha. Hmm, bagaimana kekuatan hukum atw lisensinya? Apakah bisa digunakan? Klo bisa, tlg pak, foto dari situ dipindahkan k Commons. Pagi, pak Woodrich. --~~Akbar~~ ini dari Kalbar 00:02, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Terbit pada tahun 1928, berarti paling cepat PD pada tahun 1998 di Belanda. Karena Commons sekarang kayaknya tidak hiraukan URAA, itu berarti mungkin bisa masuk. Akan tetapi, saya tidak setuju dengan pendirian Commons yang baru, dan karena itu tidak bersedia memindahkan gambar ini ke Commons. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:28, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Lalu, Pak Woodrich. Apa lisensi yg pas 'tuk itu gmbr? --~~Akbar~~ ini dari Kalbar 02:22, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

PD-70-anon dan {{Not-PD-US-URAA}}, sekarang. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:43, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

I think you boo-booed...

This doesn't look right. Ealdgyth - Talk 00:47, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Blasted connection. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:49, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

THe WHite

The zen garden of Tofuku-ji temple in Japan. The Shinto religion uses white sand or gravel to symbolize a sacred place, while Zen Buddhism uses it to stimulate calm and meditation.
Mute swans.
The Cathedral of Milan (1386-1965)
Taj Mahal 2002

Hafspajen (talk) 01:02, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Very nice. I rather like the wedding kimono (although the quality of the picture is lacking). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:04, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

For you

	Sunshine Award
	You are the sunshine of my lifeeee..... Hafspajen (talk) 01:30, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Hafs! I love that song. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:57, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Church of St John the Divine, Calder Grove

Crisco, I've never seen this before: a hook being approved based on a picture. I don't see any documentation that this is a scissors-truss roof, and the creator is maintaining that since the picture is of one—and we have to take his word for it, since there's no written documentation cited anywhere—that's all the citation needed. (Funnily enough, it's called a "cross truss" in the picture description.)

Is this true? I didn't want to promote it, but (if true) nor did I want to unapprove it. It's clear that the author took a great many pictures of this church, but that makes the descriptions attached to them as sourced as the picture in question: the creator's knowledge. That doesn't strike me as Misplaced Pages's idea of a reliable, independent source. Thoughts? BlueMoonset (talk) 16:06, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Written documentation only, considering what happened the last time we played with the roofs. (I forget exactly which hook it was). Interpreting an image is OR. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:13, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Consider nominating

Kota Kinabalu City Mosque
Aurelia aurita, Red Sea (nominated by Pine)
El Atazar Dam, Spain (nominated)
Solomon Northup

Go, go, go, Crisco!!Hafspajen (talk) 17:09, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

The only one which has been in its host article for a week is the Dam. I might try in the morning. Past midnight now. G'night. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 17:10, 16 May 2055 (UTC)
Sleep well. Hafspajen (talk) 17:14, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

You may nominate any of the above. Please. I don't care for the glory, really. Just wan't to skip seeing that horrible thing.The more new nom, the better. File:ToVictoryPoster.jpg Hafspajen (talk) 21:48, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Hafs, I think the one that stands the best chance is The Judgement of Paris, but considering the current climate I don't want to nominate any nudes just yet. I've been holding back on Olympia as well. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:57, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

PRRSSKKHGG. Grssst, eh. What is wrong with nudes? 300 year old nudes? There is nothing wrong with that woman either, all that is just silly. Hafspajen (talk) 01:59, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

I know, but I really don't want to strike up any more drama. Once the discussion's been closed down for a week or two, then I can schedule the Manet. Paris can follow (or you can nom, if you can get past the elephantitis image). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:02, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

No, I can't. Yuck. When will that disappear? Here trouble naked woman for you. File:Tepidarium Lawrence Alma-Tadema (1836-1912).jpg Hafspajen (talk) 02:04, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

That's rather shocking, I must say. Shame the painting is so dirty. Curious as to what a good scan would look like. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:26, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Ee, shocking?

Hafspajen (talk) 02:30, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

The coloration gives a rather gritty realism to it, making it more raw than a lot of the idealized nudes we've featured. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:32, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it is. Clever of you to notice it. Hafspajen (talk) 02:42, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

How is going? Good luck... Hafspajen (talk) 14:05, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

LOL. Shame that's oversharpened, a bit out of focus, and not used in any articles. That would be a fun FP. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:46, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Promote at DYK?

We have preps, no queues, and are two hours late. Anything you can do? Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:02, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

I've queued two preps (one of which has already been promoted to the template by the bot), but have to step out now. Sorry it took me a bit to respond; was having breakfast. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:34, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Many thanks. I've been off for even longer than you were. ;-) It looks like Casliber promoted the next set; it has one of the crime-related hooks I mentioned to you earlier in the week... BlueMoonset (talk) 06:14, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Shudder... (hides) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:39, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Featured picture candidates/In the Conservatory

I Need a Closer. Armbrust 02:50, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Looks like Sven already got it. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:34, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Some translation help please.

Hi Crisco- When you have a moment, would you mind translating these two image descriptions - 5 Gulden (1886) and 5 Gulden (1937) - into Indonesian please. I wanted to nominate one for FP. While I’m partial to the second note (the design is more interesting), the first seems to have greater EV for the Banknotes of the Rupiah article (at least the intro/history as it was the first year the bank began re-issuing in the region). Many thanks--Godot13 (talk) 04:05, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Done, good sir. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:39, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
- Many thanks!-Godot13 (talk) 18:02, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Soeara Berbisa

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Soeara Berbisa you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Zanimum -- Zanimum (talk) 15:41, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Photo question

Here's a photo of Red Skelton from Radio Mirror in 1948. One of his early "hobby" paintings is shown above. The magazine is PD-copyright not renewed. Do you think we could use this to illustrate the section on Skelton and his artwork--concern for me is de minimis, though I don't think he copyrighted his earlier paintings. Can look, though. :} Thanks, We hope (talk) 16:15, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

I'd get it just for the colour . You could probably claim de minimis on the painting, but to be safe I'd mark that explicitly on the file talk page. Do you know how to get the full size scan of the image? If not I can upload it. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:33, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Also, if you're 100% sure this was not renewed, I'll probably upload the rest of the images on Commons. Fanny Brice et al.... useful. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:35, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Just rolled through UPenn periodicals for 1975 and 1976--Macfadden didn't renew Radio Mirror. Right now, there's a link broken between the Internet Archive and U Wisconsin's Lantern, which normally serves larger PDF pages. The magazines are scans from the LOC made available via internet archive. I use these a lot for various performers and also for article refs. ;} Even though both UWisconsin and IA claim all online is PD, I always check it at either UPenn or copyright.gov to be sure. Haven't found any renewals from any of the material from here I've used. We hope (talk) 16:59, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Internet archive actually offers higher-resolution images as well, if you know where to look. Upload what you can get, and I'll upload the higher resolution image. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:42, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Went back to UPenn to look at copyrights filed for art work for the years 1943 (when Skelton said he began actively painting as a hobby) through 1948 (magazine is from 1948). The only thing pertaining to Red Skelton is a 1947 illustration done by artist Sam Berman for NBC Radio. NBC hired Berman to create illustrations for all of the radio shows on the network at the time. File:Como stafford supper club 1947.jpg This is one of them. NBC renewed some but not all of the illustrations; the Como/Stafford "Supper Club" wasn't renewed. So we are looking at a PD Skelton original. :) We hope (talk) 17:33, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Perfect! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:42, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

File:Red Skelton with artwork 1948.jpg OK-here it is along with a best-seller about why the painting's PD. :) We hope (talk) 01:27, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

K, the image is on its way. Should be available in 10 minutes maximum. How did I do it? See User_talk:Crisco_1492/Archive_48#Free. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:38, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Mr. S. has arrived, thank you!--and I think we should make him earn his "keep" in his article now. :) Thanks again! We hope (talk) 02:36, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

We hope, SchroCat, I just realized this: you can actually just download the scan data through a torrent. Click on All Files, Torrent, and in your torrent program select the one which ends as jp2 (it should be the largest). That gets you all of the original scans. If you just want the one file, you can use the method I explained before. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:57, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

lol - I have no idea what most of that means! I'm not sure I have a torrent programme... (although I may have, without knowing exactly what it is!) (We hope, I've just managed to get to PR with my current piece (Royal baccarat scandal), so I'll be free to start going over Skelton from tomorrow onwards. The very quick skim I had a week or so ago showed no real problems: it's a good-looking article). Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 13:13, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Right right. I doubt you'd use this much except for PD magazines or other things with many illustrations. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:16, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Got here a bit late today-trying to get some RL stuff done while there's still some weekend to do it in. (And to let the family and friends see my face without a computer screen glow on it from time to time.) Didn't put a torrent program in; many large ISPs here now have "caps" or limits on the amount of data you can use before paying extra for it. Don't think mine will start doing this, but who knows? SchroCat, thanks for your help on Skelton! He's an interesting fellow; Skelton once said Gene Fowler would write his biography, but after Fowler died in 1960, Skelton apparently wasn't interested in turning the project over to someone else. If I make it though Skelton, eventually I'd like to go further with Perry Como and do something about Ernie Kovacs. We hope (talk) 20:42, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Bandwidth caps? Greedy ****s. I hate those things. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:33, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 14 May 2014

Investigative report: Hong Kong's Wikimania 2013—failure to produce financial statement raises questions of probity

WikiProject report: Relaxing in Puerto Rico

News and notes: 'Ask a librarian'—connecting Wikimedians with the National Library of Australia

Featured content: On the rocks

Traffic report: Eurovision, Google Doodles, Mothers, and 5 May

Technology report: Technology report needs editor, Media Viewer offers a new look

Similar DYK issue?

Crisco, I just noticed that you reviewed the Template:Did you know nominations/Kidnapping in the United States article, and flunked it for a variety of reasons, one of which was the Notable cases section. The creator has an article on Child sexual abuse in Australia currently in Queue 4 and due to hit the main page in four hours, and it has a "Notable offenders" section—a list rather than a table, and each offender is wikilinked to an article. If this is problematic, it will require an admin, so I thought you'd want to check to make sure this article doesn't have similar issues to the one you reviewed. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:55, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

It looks a bit more reasonable than the one I refused, since referencing is considerably stronger. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:44, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Good to know, and glad you had a look at it before it went to the main page. Again, thank you. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:04, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Picture of the Day

Hi Crisco, I've got Matanaka Farm on my watchlist, and have thus seen that you are involved in picture of the day. I do a lot of uploading to Commons and I occasionally come across quite stunning photos. If you are interested, I can draw your attention to those if you wish. I don't really want to learn what's involved with featured pictures, and I am certainly not a brilliant photographer by any description. Hence my idea of a stunning photo may be a long way off from true FP candidates. But for what it's worth, the following photos have made an impression on me and if you think they are any good, feel free to put them forward:

If you want me to notify you when I see something that might be suitable, please let me know. Schwede66 03:13, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

If you want to drop off a couple, that would be great. The ones you've left here, however, have a couple of issues: several are highly skewed in regards to perspective, and the press building looks like poorly done HDR. The best for the English Misplaced Pages FP process is File:The old Civic Chambers.jpg, but it has the issue of cars blocking the view. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:11, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

See, that's how little I know of good photography. Anyway, I remembered and eventually found another photo that I quite fancied:

Schwede66 05:09, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Not how little you know of good photography (the view of the Cathedral of the Blessed Sacrament is certainly visually impressive) but what is expected of English Misplaced Pages's featured pictures. If you want, have a browse through Misplaced Pages:Featured_pictures/Places/Architecture to see what usually gets through. As for the geckos: sadly whoever took the photograph had too narrow focus. Check out the snout of the rear gecko: it goes from out of focus to in focus to out of focus. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:16, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Black genocide

Crisco, could you please take a look at this one and try to break the deadlock over the proposed hook and image of Davis? Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:05, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Replied there. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:12, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

PR request

Hi Crisco, After a hefty re-write, the royal baccarat scandal—or Tranby Croft affair, if you prefer—is up for peer review. If you have the time, or inclination, I'd be very grateful to hear any thoughts or comments you may have. Much obliged if you can, but entirely understandable if your hands are full elsewhere! – SchroCat (talk) 13:04, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

I'll try and have a looksy. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:06, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Request for CSD

Hi Crisco, please can you delete 2014–15 FA Cup so that User:Matty.007/sandbox/2014–15 FA Cup can be moved in? Thanks, Mat ty.007 13:05, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:07, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
- Wow, that was quick. Thank you very much! Best, Matty.007 13:09, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
  - I happened to be online. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:15, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
    - Crisco checks his watchlist every 10 seconds ;-) Ðiliff «» (Talk) 13:48, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
      - That would make panorama stitching considerably more difficult, I should say. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:49, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Hey, now. I found a picture of an American Cocker Spaniel, a dog that we need pictures of, in the co,mmons Category:Low quality dog pictures, and I figured we could do something with it if we are cropping it, not that bad.

Now the file is deleted and Phil got a template of a common admin, saying she violated copyright? Why? It looked like the persons own dog, or? She have just been accused of violating copyright by an admin over on Commons! when she only cropped it. I wan't that dog back, if possible.

Hafspajen (talk) 16:25, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Is there a deletion request? Or did Phil forget to add the original image as the source? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:27, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

I cropped it using the crop tool and then uploaded it as a new file, not over writing the original as the instructions tell you. I have asked the Commons Admin to rev/del it from my talk page as he/she appears to be admitting they hadn't looked at the original file. Do you think he/she will? SagaciousPhil - Chat 16:33, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Here's hoping... — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:44, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

And I wan't that dog back, if possible. This is not fair to Phil. And they deleted the original file too, what was wrong with that one? We need that picture. Hafspajen (talk) 16:37, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

What's the link to the original file? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:44, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

File:This is my male parti color American cocker I want to breed 2014-03-09 16-16.jpg

But, as you will notice, the original file is no good, needs cropping away the gras and stuff in front, top and to the left. Are we getting in trouble, or it again? (If the file can be saved...) Hafspajen (talk) 16:51, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

It would have been File:This is my male parti color American cocker I want to breed 2014-03-09 16-16.jpg - because I just cropped it, the same name was used but with (cropped) added. The link Lupo gave for it being a violation of was this one where a user with the same name as the commons uploader was looking for a mate for their dog, so it was probably their own picture! SagaciousPhil - Chat 16:53, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

And it looks like they are refusing to rev/del it - it was their error. SagaciousPhil - Chat 17:00, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

How silly. Extremely silly, we just want to make use of a picture that it is to no use, that is most probably uploaded by the owner, and everything is deleted, original and the cropped and Phil gets kicked in the but, for no reason at all. Hope somebody appologized for her, at least. Hafspajen (talk) 17:02, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

No, she got cold-shouldered, kind off. Hafspajen (talk) 22:42, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
Was this REALLY a copright issue? Hafspajen (talk) 23:51, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

That's... odd. I don't have access to the file (not a Commons admin) but it looks like it was uploaded in the same time frame as the hoobly image and, barring proof that these are the same people, the precautionary principle recommends deletion. No comment on the bit about rev deleting the template. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:31, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Hm, Phil said that it could be the same person. As she said: this one where a user with the same name as the commons uploader was looking for a mate for their dog, so it was probably their own picture. But I guess it is gone now. Hafspajen (talk) 01:40, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

It could be, but previous publication requires an explicit release. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:42, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Username on that webbsite was monkeyward, same as the uploader here. But I don't know where to find him/her. Oh, well, bad luck. Hafspajen (talk) 01:44, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

I'll put it this way; I could see someone with really good images on Flickr, register a Commons account using the same name, and upload his/her images as my own. That's probably not what happened here, but that's why Commons would need verification. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:47, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Yes. and it was a bad picture. Need cropping. Hafspajen (talk) 02:11, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

I am affraid she is not taking it well, and people down there are not exactly nice to her. Hafspajen (talk) 16:54, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2014-05-21/Featured content

Hey, Chris! Would you consider my summary of D. Djajakusuma accurate? If not, could you make whatever tweaks you feel would improve it? I'm not quite sure I summarised the most notable points. Adam Cuerden 23:40, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:27, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Copyright question...

Hi Crisco- I've stumbled upon a grouping of American Bank Note Company portrait proofs of notable people from all over the world. While the Bureau of Engraving and Printing is a government agency and therefore PD, ABNCo is a different story. While they enjoyed long contracts with the US government to produce currency, they were not a government agency and they designed and engraved currency for a significant number of foreign countries. The portraits are in a scrap book assembled by an ABNCo engraver and it is, for what it's worth, likely 70+ years old (if not more). Some of the images have the name of the engraver written in the book, most of them have a very fine and small engraved copyright symbol, but no date... Any thoughts?--Godot13 (talk) 00:25, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Would these count as published works? Because I believe that any American, published work with a malformed copyright from before a certain date counts as copyright ineligible. Adam Cuerden 00:53, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Can you determine when these were done? While looking up renewals of old photos at UPenn, I've come across the company's renewals under artwork many times. Here's what they renewed from 1931 in the first half of 1958. If you can put a date on these, you can then look at UPenn to see if the engraving was renewed or not. We hope (talk) 01:23, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

The main question is: did this have wide distribution or note? If this was distributed somewhat widely (say, 50 copies or something), then we could look into renewal. If it wasn't considered published in the US, then renewals and copyright notices are pretty much moot. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:25, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Well, regarding distribution, there are some impressions of U.S. statesmen (Lincoln, Grant) I've never seen used, they could have been trial engravings. This same impression of Pedro Álvares Cabral is among some of the others. On the other end of the distribution spectrum is the engraved logo for the American Express centurion... If the exact image was actually used on the circulating currency of a foreign country does that count toward distribution? Or is it only if the engraved portrait was distributed in the same state as in this scrapbook? And as mentioned above, this is a scrapbook, so I'm fairly certain there is no other identical copy, and it was never published.-Godot13 (talk) 02:05, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

You can cite previous publication as an indication that an image is PD, but not the whole scrapbook. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:07, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Editwarring over flatlists

Sorry to bug you, but is there something you can do about TheSickBehemoth (talk · contribs) persistently removing {{Flatlist}}s from the Megadeth article? Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 04:49, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

It's not edit warring (1 edit, 1 revert), and it's not following Template:Infobox musical artist. TheSickBehemoth (talk) 04:51, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Curly Turkey, that looks absolutely terrible (check out the bullet starting a line in front of Jan Panzer). I'd definitely try and reach a consensus at WikiProject Biography or the template talk page before starting something like that.

TheSickBehemoth: Agree that a single revert is not edit warring per our policy (it calls for repeated reverts to be edit warring). However, not following Template:Infobox musical artist is not breaking policy either, as template documentation is just that: documentation. We can include or exclude fields, or approach them as we want. In this case, however, I think the standard still looks better. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:35, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Flatlists are for accessibility, not aesthetic, purposes, creating a semantic list—if it displays in an unaesthetic way on your browser, that's unfortunate (it displays fine on mine, not that that's the point). I'll take this to TheSickBehemoth's talk page. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 06:22, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

I figured as much, but we've got to remember that aesthetics are also a part of the article. Wouldn't {{Plain list}} work fine as well? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:26, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
- It might indeed. I'll ask the article's authors what they prefer. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 07:31, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Right. But, come to think of it, WP:FLATLIST actually supports using commas as an alternative to the hlist bullets template... just realized we had this as part of the MOS. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:36, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
- What's part of the MOS? Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 07:43, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
  - WP:FLATLIST, which explicitly gives horizontal lists using commas as an example, is part of Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style/Lists. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:45, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
    - Sorry, I thought you were saying {{Flatlist}} could be used with commas specified as separator—which could be an issue, anyways: imagine it were a list of publishers, and one was Little, Brown. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 07:54, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
      - Oh, I didn't realize the ambiguity of "supports" in my statement above. Anywho, hope this helps a little. I might stop by Ukiyo-e some time this week (assuming my schedule permits). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:56, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
        That'd be swell—I've lost all perspective on the article. I'm leaving the lists up to Megadeth's nominator. That's an article that could use another pair of eyes, by the way... Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 08:26, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
        Has Gabe gotten there? Seems right up his alley. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:27, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
        So far I've been the only reviewer. Maybe I'll give him a ping. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 10:37, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
        Thanks. I'll consider dropping by as well, though after Babe Ruth the thought of another 60k article makes me kinda queezy. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:41, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
        That's okay, I understand you need the time to give ukiyo-e a review, copyedit, and thorough source check. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 11:38, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
        And an image review. For all 55 files. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 11:42, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Becchi

Thank you, but just tell me what AGF means. I can assure you I don't plagiarise other people's writing. Amandajm (talk) 12:10, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

@Amandajm: AGF is the full description for Assuming Good Faith. - SchroCat (talk) 12:24, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Right. And, in a DYK sense, it means "I am unable to check this, but I trust the nominator has not done anything against policy". It's standard for articles with offline and/or foreign language sources, as in many cases few editors would actually have access to said offline sources or the ability to read foreign-language ones.

Although for some reason I can't find this in any of the guideline pages related to DYK... sigh, those pages have been reshuffled so much... — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:31, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Is it

Can I use this one here on a talk page as an award? Or is it not fair use? start to get nervous about these picture uses. Also I feel bad, because I succeded to drag Phil into this circus on commons, because it was my idea about cropping that image. Hafspajen (talk) 17:17, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Sultante of Singora

Hi there. This is a message for CasLiber, HamiltonStone, SturmVogel and Crisco. Thanks for your help and feeback re: the Singora article. It achieved FA status on Saturday.

I got a message today saying the article will now appear on Misplaced Pages's home page on June 4. This surprised me. I read somewhere that it usually takes several months for featured articles to make it to the home page.

I've cleaned things up a bit. CasLiber and Crisco noted that the section about Persians in 17th century Siam looked out of place. I've deleted this paragraph.

I've also re-jigged the lead and added:

1. Alternative names / spellings to the Early History section.
2. An explanatory note re: the foundation of the city in 1605.
3. An explanatory note re: Sultan Sulaiman's declaration of independence in 1642.
4. A second paragraph to the The forts at Khao Daeng section.

If you have time to briefly glance through it again, please do. I still feel the article can be improved prior to June 4.

Thanks again for your help. I've enjoyed doing this. I finished Oxford University almost exactly 30 years ago, so this has been an opportunity to cast aside some of the rust and dust that's built up over the years. Perhaps I'm not as good as I was, but I think I'm still just about okay!

I'll login from time to time. If you'd like a review, do please feel free to let me know.

Singora (talk) 18:08, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Thanks for your review on the RBS, but especially the work you did on the images: it is, as always, much appreciated! Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 18:19, 19 May 2014 (UTC)