| Revision as of 01:46, 20 May 2014 editLowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs)Bots, Template editors2,302,011 editsm Archiving 5 discussion(s) to Talk:List of Islamic terrorist attacks/Archive 1, Talk:List of Islamic terrorist attacks/Archive 2) (bot← Previous edit | Revision as of 05:36, 7 June 2014 edit undoRim sim (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users4,121 editsmNo edit summaryNext edit → | ||
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July 7, 1989
== Can we discuss inclusion criteria? == It occurred to me that we may want to limit inclusion on this list not only by requiring that an attack be (a) terrorist and (b) motivated by either perceived Islamic or political goals, but also by requiring that there be an existing Misplaced Pages article on the attack. This is a widely used criterion for inclusion on lists and I think it would be useful here. Many of the items on the list even now suffer from an extreme lack of sourcing. For instance, most of the recent Syrian ones are so routine that there's no continuing coverage of them and no investigation. Each of the 3-6 sides in the Syrian conflict may have an opinion on who did it and why, but no one really knows, and then the day after they drop it because there was another one. If we require the entries on this list to be independently notable to the point where they can support their own Misplaced Pages articles we will avoid a lot of discussion about incidents which lack sufficient sourcing to understand what happened. Thus I'm soliciting everyone's thoughts: Require entries to have a stand-alone article? No? Something else?— ] (]) 15:57, 19 April 2014 (UTC) :I think you are right that we should only include terrorist attacks, which have an article. But I think you should not delete terrorist attacks against ], because the terrorist groups ], ] and ] are islamic terrorists. Also I think you should look at ] and realise that there are many articles about islamic terrorist attacks!--] (]) 12:18, 21 April 2014 (UTC) ::So you disagree with criterion (b) above that the attack should be motivated by perceived Islamic religious or political goals? Or do you think all terrorist attacks against Israel by Islamists are motivated by Islamic religious or political goals even when roughly equivalent acts by, e.g. the PLO or Abu Nidal are not? What criterion would you use to decide which attacks on Israel by Palestinian groups are appropriate, and what effect would that have on the general inclusion criteria?— ] (]) 12:24, 21 April 2014 (UTC) :::I think that we have to include all attacks by this three groups because they cite islamic reasons for their attacks and the PLO does not! But I think the PLO should still have also a extra List with their attacks against Isreal on their article page.--] (]) 12:31, 21 April 2014 (UTC) ::::Can you give an example of such an attack against Israel where Islamic motives are cited? I'll leave you to work out your PLO list on your own if you don't mind.— ] (]) 12:51, 21 April 2014 (UTC) :::::Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/Hamas#Hamas_Charter_.281988.29 ] says it is antisemitic because of this statement of ]. Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/Islam_and_antisemitism#Hadith --] (]) 13:01, 21 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::Also you can still help me with the PLO List! I am only an IP.--] (]) 13:05, 21 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::@]: What you should do to improve this '''mess'''! ::::::::1. Include all islamic terrorist attacks in the List which have an article. Look at ], there are many articles still not in the List. ::::::::2. Include all attacks against Isreal by the 3 groups, which I mentioned ::::::::3. Create a List called '''PLO attacks against Israel''' --] (]) 13:38, 21 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::::--] (]) 13:44, 21 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::I understand that Hamas is an Islamist group, but that doesn't mean that every action they do is based on perceived Islamic religious or political goals. Since they participate in the governance of Gaza, a lot of what they do is more like state action for state purposes. Furthermore, many of their actions have been military in character rather than terrorist, so that it doesn't actually matter what their motives are for purposes of this list. That's why it's necessary to give specific examples rather than trying to argue by theory. It's not plausible that every action an Islamic group takes is for Islamic reasons. It's doubly not plausible that every attack against Israel by an Islamist group belongs on this list. Each must be considered on an individual basis. If you give one example, I'll show you what I mean. Also I don't want to work on a PLO list. This one is enough work already. You'll be able to figure it out eventually, I'm sure.— ] (]) 13:54, 21 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::I am '''shocked'''. You claim that this group has to give an islamic explanation for '''every''' terror attack they commit. Then ], also is no islamist organisation. They also do not explain every terror attack islamically. Then this whole List should be deleted. According to you there exists '''no''' islamic terrorism?--] (]) 14:12, 21 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::No, don't put words in my mouth. There is Islamic terrorism, but also read ]. We need to have sources saying that attacks are motivated by Islamic religious or political reasons in order to be able to include them on this list. Terrorist groups aren't usually shy about sharing their reasons. We can't just assume that everything they do is motivated by Islamic goals.— ] (]) 14:18, 21 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::I '''disagree'''. If groups like '''] or ] commit terrorist attacks''', which have their own article. This is enough to include them! This groups do not need an islamic statement for '''every''' terrorist attack.--] (]) 14:30, 21 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::::I don't think we need a statement from the group claiming Islamic motives, but I do think we need a statement from some reliable source attributing Islamic motives. One way to get this is by the group's making a statement. Another way is for historians or even journalists making declarative statements that the action had Islamist motives. This is really just basic ]. Not everything Islamists do has Islamic motives, so we need sources to tell us what their motives were in each case.— ] (]) 14:34, 21 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::::What you do is '''empowerment''' of islamic terrorism by denying the islamic connection! No attack is for you islamically '''enough'''!--] (]) 14:44, 21 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Well, if you're uninterested in following the basic principles of Misplaced Pages, perhaps you should start your own website and then you can make lists of whatever you want. Everything here has to be verifiable by citations to reliable sources.— ] (]) 14:48, 21 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::'''I added the ] to remind you that you still have to include many articles which fit every critera to be included. Or will you ever add a terrorist attack in this List?'''--] (]) 18:22, 21 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::'''P.S. You also forgot the ]!'''--] (]) 18:25, 21 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::Well, you violated the ] when you put it back in, so you ought to revert yourself and discuss it below.— ] (]) 18:30, 21 April 2014 (UTC) {{od}} Just because it involves Hamas doesn't mean it's an act of Islamic terrorism. ] does apply. I don't see an article written up about incidences of American Terroist events listing the Boston Tea Party. As the old saying goes, "One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter." Hamas like the PLO in their actions against Israel are to free themselves. Be careful to consider that when noting their Islamism and terrorist acts that are very similar to the American revolutionary war.] (]) 12:05, 22 April 2014 (UTC) :What kind of bullshit IS that?! Hamas's SELF-PROCLAIMED goal is not to "free themselves", but to destroy Israel and establish an Islamic state on its territory -- so this DOES make them an Islamic terrorist group! And which of the Founding Fathers had ever called for the destruction of Great Britain, may I ask?! ] (]) 05:35, 9 May 2014 (UTC) == Chechen separatism == This item was recently added: <blockquote> <nowiki> *{{flagicon|Russia}} September 1, 2004 – ] <ref>{{cite news|url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/world/04/russian_s/html/1.stm |title=Bbc News |publisher=BBC News |date=September 3, 2004 |accessdate=April 25, 2010}}</ref>
I don't believe it belongs on this list. This was an action by nationalist guerillas who happen to be Muslim. Their goal was to establish the independence of Chechnya. How is that an Islamic goal? The source given calls the terrorists "Chechen separatists," so certainly doesn't support the inclusion here. Thoughts?— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 18:22, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
- I have now reverted this edit. But I think this qualifies as islamic terrorism. These "Chechen separatists," want to be indepentend because Russia is Christian and they are Muslims!--79.192.63.219 (talk) 18:36, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
- Really? Is that a universally accepted opinion or just yours? Why doesn't the wikipedia article about it say more on the issue? Or do you have other sources? The one you used totally fails WP:V.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 18:54, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
- Russia is Christian? That's new. Are you saying that because an estimated 44% is Christian? The only law I'm familiar with is the 1997 law that stated that Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, and Judaism are important in Russian history. Should we impart your bias and ignore the struggle for independence that dates to the break up of the Soviet Union, IP?Serialjoepsycho (talk) 11:45, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
- Russia has traditionally been Christian, and Christianity (specifically, Eastern Orthodox Christianity) is still the biggest religion there -- so yeah, Russia IS still Christian in the same way that the USA is! 24.5.122.13 (talk) 05:31, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
The BBC pages do not call this an islamic or islamist attack.--TheJegos (talk) 16:29, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
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