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Alan Guth the atheist?

This appeared on my talk page, in defence of the claim that Guth is an atheist. It seems more appropriate here:

Here is a site map of the website; http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/index.htm .

It is even critical of Christianity.

Okay, it seems non-creationist.  :-) But the claim still seems ill-sourced, apparently being based on Guth's biography "The Inflationary Universe". I don't recall any atheist affirmation in it, although he does say something, somewhere (where?, I can't remember) about preferring beliefs to be empirically based. Guth sounds like an atheist to me, but I'm sure many religious people would disagree -- miracles are meant to be empirical, aren't they?

Just give us the page number from his bio. --Michael C. Price 01:29, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Whether or not he's an atheist, can we get some citation from a WP:RS that documents it? I'm going to go ahead and tag the whole article as needing to cite its sources. Wellspring (talk) 12:58, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

All I know is that he certainly is a practicing Jew. He is taking off this Thursday from MIT to celebrate Yon Kippur. Clark3934 (talk) 23:36, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

:-) --Michael C. Price 06:57, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

I had heard he was a non-practicing Jew. But that's what I've heard, so it's not realiable. He is critical of creationism and intelligent design, as are most scientists (hell, even most religious philosophers), regardless of thier views on religion. You have to remember he's a String Theory proponent, though, they have no view on God as they see it sould be entirely possible he (or it) exists, and it could be possible that he does not. It is not a question they generally like to concern themselves with. I guess that's Apatheism. 98.198.83.12 (talk) 08:45, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Entry needs editing

Hello. My first Misplaced Pages comment. I enjoyed reading this entry on Alan Guth, but feel I should point out that there are quite a few grammatical errors, missing words, and questionable word choices which a careful reading will reveal. I won't wield the hammer and nails myself because it's past my bedtime, and I'm not sure I know how to go about it anyway. I leave it in your capable hands. All the best. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.116.131.81 (talk) 07:24, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

NPOV

Seems to me like the article is written very colloquially and is far from satisfying the NPOV guidelines. Throughout, there is pretty much a judgement and/or and opinion interjected with every fact.

Example 1: "MIT was easier for him than high school because all his courses were science and math. One reason he did this was because he was worried about the draft. He certainly was not a big fan of the Vietnam War, because in 1970 he participated in some speeches at political activities"

--> What does this undocumented speculation have anything to do with anything?

Example 2: "Ironically, much of that theory had been developed by graduate students at Princeton, but Guth had been too wrapped up in his own ideas to notice what was going on around him. When Guth discovered this he felt embarrassed that he was paying no attention to what his colleagues were doing. Since his time at Princeton had been wasted, he had to find another postdoc job in any way that was available to him, such as reading notices on bulletin boards and called acquaintances who worked in physics departments."

--> This is downright meant to degrade Alan Guth. What is its relevance and significance in this article?

In agreement with the comment above, it is in need of serious work. Evilmathninja (talk) 18:34, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree the whole tone and style of the article is awful (the result of one editor's rewrite). The best thing would be to revert back. --Michael C. Price 21:39, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

not encyclopedic

As others have noted, this article needs serious work. One thing that really stuck out to me was all the phrases like "Alan Guth believes..." and "Alan Guth's main beliefs about the universe are..." This makes him sound like a guru rather than a scientist. The whole thing is written like some kind of junior high school fanboy paper.75.83.69.196 (talk) 14:36, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

I have tried to make the article sound more encyclopedic, removing much uncited material, which was probably based by somebody on interview(s) with the subject. Interviewers typically lard up their articles with attempts to make the subject sound like a guru; this is NOT the fault of the person being interviewed. If there are good reliable published sources out there, I hope somebody will use them to make the article even better. betsythedevine (talk) 01:33, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

I have made a start - for instance by removing all the material about confirming inflation, which was/is/will be the work of a much wide community.

Further work is still required. -- cheers, Michael C. Price 13:51, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Missing the context of the 70's Ph.d. Glut and the inability of Universities to recognize talent

The discussion of his early career fails to mention that when he graduated in 1971 it was during the Ph.d. Glut that hit in 1970 in Physics and other sciences. So the inability to get a tenure track job and the repeated postdoc positions was the most likely fate of the Physics graduate in that era. The key thing is that things switched from boom to bust very quickly, whereas today things have been pretty tough for Physics grads for 40 years (with some interludes of improvement). It also would help to contrast Guth's achievements as a postdoc with all those who got tenure track jobs before him, because it would illustrate the repeated pattern the failure to recognize scientific talent. Einstein being the most know example given that he could only get a job as a Swiss patent clerk, a job he continued to be employeed at even after the publication of his famous 1905 papers. 205.189.194.208 (talk) 17:10, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure it's that relevant - after all everybody was in the same boat. -- cheers, Michael C. Price 13:49, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Publications

My first kick didn't yield any sufficient list.
Any suggestions? (The current "one item" list is way incomplete.) Josh, linguist (talk) 07:44, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Guth's recanting of inflation theory

Hi all. I added a subsection on the latest interview by Linde to FT, where Linde is cited as saying Guth has recanted inflation. This is newsworthy as it indicates a dispute over the Nobel prize.

"According to Linde in his interview to the Financial Times, Guth has recanted inflation theory altogether, in a paper "more than 100 pages long"." Holybeef (talk) 16:45, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

FWIW - rv edit - there doesn't seem to be a recanting by Guth (or any one else?) - nor any mention of "100 pages" - in the reference cited => < ref>Andrei Linde on the Big Bang and the biggest discovery of all time, interview with Clive Cookson. The Financial Times, 11 April 2014.</ref> - *entirely* ok w/ me to rv/mv/ce if otherwise of course - in any case - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 17:09, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Sorry my bad, the entire interview is in audio format and the text is just an excerpt. You have to click on the mini player. Reverted. Thanks. Holybeef (talk) 18:04, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Brief Followup - Updated edit to following =>

Guth's recanting of "old inflation" theory

According to Linde in his audio interview (04/11/2014) (about 14-16/43:06 minute total), Guth has recanted his "old inflation" theory, in a paper "more than 100 pages long".< ref>Andrei Linde on the Big Bang and the biggest discovery of all time, interview with Clive Cookson. The Financial Times, 11 April 2014.</ref>

Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 18:41, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks but why "old inflation" and why the quotation marks? I didn't get an impression from listening to the audio that there was Guth's old v. Gut's new inflation. (In case you somehow missed it, my subsection is inside the Guth's inflation section only). Besides, see the section's end where it says Linde and Guth merely exchanged papers afterwords, and that's it. So I've just changed "old inflation" back to inflation. Holybeef (talk) 23:28, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you *very much* for your comments - no problem whatsoever re your recent edits - seems I heard Linde say that Guth referred to his 1980 "inflation scenario" thinking as "old inflation" (about 15:10 into the audio interview?) - hence, the quotation marks - for me, a transcript of the interview may help I would think - in any regards - thanks again for your comments - and - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 00:36, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Not a problem, you're "very welcome." With or without transcript, "inflation scenario" sounds more like colloquialism than referring to a notable (original or later) theory of Guth's. If such a later theory exists, I think the article would have discussed it by now. The way things seem to be at the moment, Linde has proposed his own "very simple idea" only after Guth had already recanted inflation as impossible -- a conclusion Guth felt so strongly about that it took him "over 100 pages" to write the recanting paper. Holybeef (talk) 06:08, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Just wondering - what exactly are the "100 pages"? - a publication somewhere? - a draft? - maybe find out from Linde himself (or even Guth himself) if possible? - seems there may be more to the story than what we may know (or think we know) at the moment - including perhaps what Guth really meant by his "inflation scenario" wording of course - in any case - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 13:18, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Linde speaks of "a paper" so I'm assuming it was a scientific paper or report. Not a newspaper mind you, as the sheer volume seems forbidding for that type of scenario ;) Holybeef (talk) 14:01, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Yes, might be interesting to know more about the paper(s) of course - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 15:45, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Having read this article for the first time today, it seems to me that the Andrei Linde interview provides an intriguing link, but I feel strongly opposed to creating a whole section titled “Guth’s recanting of inflation theory." As I understand it, almost nobody--including Guth--subscribes to the original “false vacuum” theory of inflation, but “slow roll inflation” is alive and well, and the deeper intuition behind both inflation theories remains intact in Guth’s original ideas. Indeed, it was Guth who originally coined the term. Thus, the statement “Guth has recanted his inflation theory," while perhaps technically correct, is misleading. Also, Guth hasn’t by any stretch of the imagination recanted all theories of inflation. See, for example, his most recent paper on the ArXiv (http://arxiv.org/abs/1312.7619) where he writes: "We conclude that cosmic inflation is on a stronger footing than ever before." I’m going to take a stab at rewriting the article to keep these views in perspective. A practicing cosmologist ought to take a look, though. My expertise is in condensed matter.

For general reference, here is my transcription of the section of the Andrei Linde interview in question:

“But then he found—and this was in 1980—but then he found that it does not quite work. Because later you need to get rid of this false vacuum, you need to get normal matter. And this false vacuum, when it starts decaying, it becomes nonuniform, ugly, and as a result we do not get the universe the way we see it. So this was a scenario which no is called ‘old inflation.’ And he had written in his paper that ‘sorry, it does not quite work. We should all try, maybe we will make it work.’ And then, he had written a long, long paper—100 pages—proving it was impossible to improve this scenario. But there was little communication between Russia and the U.S., so all communications from the U.S. were coming to Russia during several months. So I received this preprint after … already improved his scenario. And that is something which I called ’new inflationary scenario.’ This version of this theory did not quite work either, and a year later it was discarded. And then in '83 I proposed something which is called chaotic inflation, and it was very very simple. It was really simple. There was no vacuum-like space … you need some special kind of field of the type Higgs field, which was already discovered at LHC, and under certain conditions, even in very simple theories of that kind, you will have exponentially fast expansion of the universe, and then you solve all problems which you would not solve otherwise, and this is exactly the version of the theory which predicted gravitational waves with an amplitude which was discovered by Bicep2. That’s why for me personally, this was a day of celebration. That is assuming that the interpretation of the experimental data is right.

...and here is a link to what I think is likely to be the "100-page" paper Guth wrote in 1980 discarding the false-vacuum theory of inflation: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0550321383903073# The title is: Could the universe have recovered from a slow first-order phase transition? Csmallw (talk) 00:06, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Please no POV. Holybeef (talk) 15:27, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

@Csmallw - Thank you for your comments - and transcription - they're *very much* appreciated - I agree - an opinion from a cosmologist about all this might be worthy of course - in any regards - Thanks again for your comments - and - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 00:53, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Linde is a cosmologist, so only citing a reliable source reporting a statement by another cosmologist can be added to Linde's words, which cannot be replaced. We're not here to judge who's right or wrong so please stop deleting the highly newsworthy subsection that's based on Linde's audio interview to the Financial Times. Counter it with another reputable source if you like, but never delete news like it never happened. It did. Holybeef (talk) 15:27, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Glad I could be helpful :) Csmallw (talk) 01:06, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

• strongly opposed. Reverted your change(s). The "first incarnation" is your POV. Point #2: sorry but what's "although he technically did recant"? You can't be "half pregnant", can you? Your explanation is sheer nonsense. Please don't make up stuff and don't provide your own thoughts about "what Guth might have meant." Besides it was not a new section (as you tried to imply) but simply a properly referenced subsection on a newsworthy statement by a cosmologist Linde who couldn't be more precise: Guth has recanted his inflation. What's to discuss? What's all the fuss about, it's just stating the facts that counts, this is Misplaced Pages. Holybeef (talk) 13:06, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

As a reminder: Misplaced Pages includes newsworthy information from reputable sources and you can't imagine a more reputable source than the Financial Times and Andrei Linde as a world leading cosmologist, correct? So burden of proof in this case is on those who want to dispute Linde but that's going to be virtually impossible as he gave audio interview. But feel free to provide for example another reputable source that counters what he said. His interview is valid, so it stays in either case as newsworthy info. Besides, I see no point in soliciting opinion of "another cosmologist". Not only that Linde is a cosmologist but that's also not what Misplaced Pages does. It only reports from third-party reliable sources. Don't forget also: no POV please. Holybeef (talk) 15:17, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't have anything more to add to this discussion, except to say that I stand by my original edits and comments. Csmallw (talk) 17:25, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

@Csmallw - Thanks again for your comments, edits and efforts - I, for one, think they're *very* worthy - for some reason, there seems to be a bit of WP:OWN and WP:SPA at the moment - but thanks again for your own comments and all - they're all *very much* appreciated - and - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 18:32, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks but no WP:OWN here since I didn't edit the article so how could I be misbehaving like I "own it"? I just created the account and contributed one new reference on a topic that interests me. Implying WP:SPA is harsh; although my account is new, I am going to contribute, time permit. Very busy here, sorry if that's suspicious to you. Also, it took me awhile to learn rules (it wasn't that hard, actually). Hope we discuss the subject matter, as you suggested yourself and that you can assume good faith. Though in all honesty, the rules I cited are very clear and basic. So it seems only new outside sources can be added if someone wishes to counter the Linde's, but his reference must not be deleted as if it never existed. Thanks, I am enjoying this, wishing you the same! Holybeef (talk) 19:59, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments - I have no problem whatsoever with Linde's comments, esp those supported by WP:RS of course, remaining in the article - but balancing (ie, WP:BALANCE) such comments with alternative viewpoints and/or interpretations, such as those that may have been presented by Csmallw above (and in this recently reverted => article version), may be worthy as well, esp, again, if supported by WP:RS - this may provide a better sense, including WP:NPOV, to the article - incidently, WP:OWN may refer to any article content, including sections - or sentences - or even a word (see a very recent example => Talk:Voyager 1#Manmade vs. Humanmade), and not only to entire articles - in any case - Thanks again for your comments - and - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 20:47, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, balancing is needed of course, but it doesn't mean deleting the Linde reference which came from a highly reliable source. As you put it, if a countering WP:RS is found, let's include it too, but side-by-side with the Linde reference and not instead of it. From what I could tell, Csmallw has tried to reword the article a bit, but in his own interpretation of work by other cosmologists, that is, without reliable sources that would counterbalance the Linde's statement. So it appeared as an excuse for deleting of a newsworthy addition that came straight from Linde who is a world leading authority in cosmology, the inflation field in particular. Thanks for the WP:OWN useful pointer, I'll keep it in mind. Although, I don't think it applies in this case, since I was just protecting a newsworthy addition from being removed (instead of properly countered using another WP:RS), which in my reading of the rules was vandalism. Holybeef (talk) 06:12, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments - I generally agree with your comments re the Linde reference - and the need to WP:BALANCE the related section with an alternative interpretation - some of the text (worthy imo) added by Csmallw may be useful and merged into the article - you may like to try and merge the text added by Csmallw into the wording of the section - or conversely - you may try and merge your own material into the text that Csmallw has presented earlier - either way - you may solve your own problem with the material - and that of others - in any regards - please understand that =>

• Misplaced Pages is not a newspaper.
• Claiming a text/reference to be a "newsworthy addition" - even if from a "highly reliable source" - may not necessarily be a worthy addition to an encyclopedia article.
• "Additions" to articles - "newsworthy" or not (and even if from "highly reliable sources") - may be removed by Editorial Discretion (see WP:EDITDISC) - or by a WP:CONSENSUS of editors - for one reason or another (if interested, see => Example-1/manmade, Example-2/exoplanet, Example-3/big bang, Example-4/novel).

Hope this all helps in some way - Thanks again for your comments - and - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 12:15, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Looking at the examples you mention (which are often said to "confirm the rule", at least in theory), they seem rather remotely applicable in this case. Simply, they are related to special topics. Such editorial interventions seem harmless to the topic yet help raise the overall quality level of Misplaced Pages. Here on the other hand, we're talking a theory that's been in the focus of science news (agencies, if you like) all over the world for the past 3 months, since the news broke out. Holybeef (talk) 20:30, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

@Holybeef - YES, Guth's inflationary theory has been in the news and there are many cited references to support the news of his theory - however, more importantly for the present discussion, are there any clear references to support the so-called "recant" by Guth - if so, please add the citations - especially if from Guth himself (the most important citation - and clearest of all - I would think) - I know of only one cited reference at the moment - and that one cited reference is not from Guth himself - and - that one cited reference seems dubious and/or interpretable at best - as noted here by other editors (see comments posted in this talk section) - yes, more references, especially clearer ones, might help your position I would think - but, as it is at the moment, clear cited support from a WP:RS that Guth actually recanted the cosmic inflationary theory he's known for best today seems lacking - only one *very* interpretable reference? - in any case - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 22:08, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the good point. You are right, the Financial Times reference could perhaps be seen as interpretable as any audio. So here's a Linde's exact quotation from his Scientific American article: The Self-Reproducing Inflationary Universe, Andrei Linde, Scientific American, Volume 9, Issue 1 (1998) 98-104. As you know, the Scientific American is a highly reputable science magazine. In that article, Linde gives a complete account of the story behind the Guth's recanting, explicitly stating "Guth finally renounced (...) in a paper Guth co-authored with EJ Weinberg". I'm sure you can find the latter paper, and take Linde's word (as a world leading cosmologist's) that Guth himself did recant inflation (as Guth mis/understood it). Basically, this proves that Guth developed just one of many non-working versions of inflation out there, so it's incorrect to refer to some other person's (working) theory as "Guth's theory". So without further ado:

The first realistic version of the inflationary theory came in 1979 from Alexei A. Starobinsky of the L. D. Landau Institute of Theoretical Physics in Moscow. The Starobinsky model created a sensation among Russian astrophysicists, and for two years it remained the main topic of discussion at all conferences on cosmology in the Soviet Union. His model, however, was rather complicated (it was based on the theory of anomalies in quantum gravity) and did not say much about how inflation could actually start.

In 1981 Alan H. Guth of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology suggested that the hot universe at some intermediate stage could expand exponentially. His model derived from a theory that interpreted the development of the early universe as a series of phase transitions. This theory was proposed in 1972 by David A. Kirzhnits and me at the P. N. Lebedev Physics Institute in Moscow. According to this idea, as the universe expanded and cooled, it condensed into different forms. Water vapor undergoes such phase transitions. As it becomes cooler, the vapor condenses into water, which, if cooling continues, becomes ice.

Guth’s idea called for inflation to occur when the universe was in an unstable, super cooled state. Super cooling is common during phase transitions; for example, water under the right circumstances remains liquid below zero degrees Celsius. Of course, supercooled water eventually freezes. That event would correspond to the end of the inflationary period. The idea to use super cooling for solving many problems of the big bang theory was very attractive. Unfortunately, as Guth himself pointed out, the postinflation universe of his scenario becomes extremely inhomogeneous. After investigating his model for a year, he finally renounced it in a paper he co-authored with Erick J. Weinberg of Columbia University.

Hope this settles the issue of what Linde really meant, and that you can take Linde's word for it that Guth produced a sterile theory that led nowhere, which Guth himself admitted and subsequently recanted. Note: to renounce and to recant are synonyms: see below, link to Merriam-Webster's definition of recant where renounce is given as the first synonym. If you click on it, the following definition pops up: "renounce: to say especially in a formal or official way that you will no longer have or accept (something); to formally give up (something)". So that's it. I've just added this additional reference to the article, thanks for your help! Still waiting though for your response to my question in the below re the WP:SPA issue with that puzzling account by MGBirdsall that was used in this discussion for the first time ever in 5 years since created. Again, great discussing with you! Holybeef (talk) 18:47, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

@Holybeef - Several notes =>

• Re: Scientific American reference - Yes, your noted reference seems to be a better citation than the interpretable audio interview from the Financial Times you first presented - nonetheless, the best support would be a reference that Alan Guth himself (not someone else regardless of credentials) published that clearly states he renounced, not some "older" precursor theory, but the present cosmic inflation theory for which he has been recently honored - I don't believe that Guth has renounced the present version of the theory although your edit in the article implies that he has - unfairly imo - if true in fact, I would think you would have no problem whatsoever finding a clear supporting reference by Guth himself.
• Re: "Guth's Inflation Theory" - seems reasonable - after all, the lede in the Inflation (cosmology) article notes the following: "The inflationary hypothesis was proposed in 1980 by American physicist Alan Guth."< ref>Peebles, P. J. E. (1993). Principles of Physical Cosmology. Princeton University Press. Chapter 17. ISBN 0-691-01933-9.</ref>

Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 20:28, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm not following, what's the "precursor" v. "present" inflation theory? I've never heard of this. Or did you mean Guth's v. Linde's version, as apparently accepted in science? If so, then there's no such thing as "Guth's inflation theory" any longer since Guth himself recanted it: just read the paper Linde kindly pointed at. You do agree that Linde is the final authority on the subject, because it's his version that works? Besides, the above Linde's reference in SciAm, which you welcomed, came 5 years after your book reference that's therefore disqualified. Furthermore, note that Linde says it was Starobinsky who had invented inflation, and that Guth's version came later on as well as versions by others. But none of those versions worked until Linde came up with his, or as you call it, "the current version". Guth has nothing to do with "the current version" because he recanted his according to Linde. Occasional moral support in the media or at conferences that Guth extends on to Linde's version should not be confused for a Guth's scientific contribution to "the current version". I've never heard that Guth co-developed the Linde's version with Linde, have you? Linde (and thus his account of the events) is obviously the final authority on inflation, as it is his version alone that works or that has ever worked. It's the press that started renaming the Linde's version into the "Guth's inflation" largely in the recent months, since famous BICEP2 results came out. So there's obviously no scientific reason for such renaming; on the contrary: the BICEP experiment was designed solely in order to verify the Linde's, not the Guth's version. The term "Guth's inflation" is the result of a media-hype which is defined as "self-inflating media coverage". Be careful not to confuse a media-inflation (hype) for a scientific theory of inflation. This article is about scientific theory of inflation, and as you pointed it out correctly yourself, Misplaced Pages is not a newspaper. Hope you consider the issue settled now. I'm still eagerly (but patiently) awaiting your response on the WP:SPA issue with the MGBirdsall account. Thanks again, I'm really enjoying this. Holybeef (talk) 07:23, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

@Holybeef - Yes, but you have provided no reference at all that Alan Guth, himself, has recanted the inflation theory for which he has been honored in pioneering. Also, Please see WP:TALK => "The purpose of a Misplaced Pages talk page ... is to provide space for editors to discuss changes to its associated article or project page. Article talk pages should not be used by editors as platforms for their personal views on a subject." (also, WP:NOTFORUM, WP:NOTSOAPBOX, WP:WALLOFTEXT) - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 14:32, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Of course I did, it's Guth-Weinberg scientific paper referred to in the Linde's SciAm popular article. If you're a cosmologist you can understand the Guth-Weinberg paper in which Guth recanted, but editors need not be experts; see WP:EXPERTISE#Expertise_in_the_field, WP:POV. So thanks for pointers to general rules but we all know talk is about arguments, and Linde's word in a popular science article is good enough for Misplaced Pages. Most importantly: we can't vote on whether someone like Linde lied or not re his field of expertise, and your word or editors vote aren't good enough to counter Linde as per WP:NOT#DEMOCRACY, so I deleted your bogus "voting table". To counter Linde's references, now you must provide WP:RS references by other cosmologists or Guth himself stating (as explicitly as Linde): "did not recant/renounce"; see WP:Consensus#Level_of_consensus on why you can't change broad policies. Thanks for letting me know on Astrophysics Kavli prize: you probably failed to read the Kavli prize citation which actually corroborates Linde: "However, Guth’s simple and elegant model was flawed: as he himself recognized, it would lead to gross inhomogeneities in the distribution of matter on large scales". I just added that reference to the article - thanks! And do enjoy! Holybeef (talk) 15:34, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Looking at this article for the first time since this section was added, and was very intrigued by what it suggested. But having read the Financial Times article and listened to the interview with Linde, I don't see any hint that Guth recanted. I don't see or hear that word used, and I think it is a bad interpretation of Linde's words. It certainly isn't Linde's words that Guth has recanted.

Given disagreement over what Linde meant, why not go to the source? If Guth has recanted, report it in Guth's words? Linde is certainly not reporting private communications. The only reason to use Linde is because this isn't reported anywhere else, and the only reason it isn't reported anywhere else is because it is a misinterpretation of Linde's words.MGBirdsall (talk) 16:10, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Look far above for where Drbogdan states exact time of the applicable parts in the audio file. Besides, here are definitions of recant, according to Merriam-Webster's: "to withdraw or repudiate (a statement or belief) formally and publicly; to make an open confession of error". Therefore to say someone has recanted isn't an insult but shorthand that's been used in science. Also, please don't take edits personally and assume good faith of other editors. Thanks. Holybeef (talk) 20:30, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

@MGBirdsall - Thanks for your comments - yes, seems reasonable - my present position is flexible with the material at the moment - suggestions to update/improve the material in the article welcome of course - in any case - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 16:52, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

From the above definition, it follows that "to recant" isn't an insult, as MGBirdsall seems to see it, but shorthand. Besides, "to recant" has been used in science to describe that someone no longer holds his/her scientific belief or theory correct. So MGBirdsall seems to be taking the term as derogatory and approaches the discussion personally. By the way, this is his/her first contribution since the account was created back in 2009. I only mention this because you seemed concerned in the above with WP:SPA; indeed, why create an account to not use it for 5 years, unlike the rest of us who use our account right away? Or am I missing something, in which case I apologize. Holybeef (talk) 20:30, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

1. Andrei Linde on the Big Bang and the biggest discovery of all time, interview with Clive Cookson. The Financial Times, 11 April 2014.

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