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July 2014

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• ]| (1738–1800), Irish politician, MP for Cavan County]] 1761–66, Postmasters General of Ireland 1789–97

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• of the Peace, Micheline Kearney Walsh, R&S Printers, Monaghan, Ireland, 1986</ref> ({{circa|1550}–1616) attainted 1608, attainder confirmed by Irish Parliament 1614.

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Ref error

On Edward Henry Cooper, it seems pretty uncertain, when I tried on my sandbox it wasn't showing any error. Have a recheck? OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 13:33, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Still under construction. I am using the refs as I go, and it will all sort out in the end :) --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:38, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

@OccultZone: I was sorry to see that you simply deleted the discussion on your userpage, without archiving it.

My point still stands. You edited a page which was clearly tagged as {{inuse}}, within 60 seconds of the last edit by its creator and sole editor, to "fix" an error message generated because it was a work-in-progress. Any work-in-progress will have many glitches: grammatical, semantic, typographical, gaps in coverage, and possibly some technical glitches such as broken refs or malformed template usage. These are all things which should be cleaned up -- but the whole point of an {{inuse}} is to indicate that an editor is already actively at work on them. Once the inuse notice is stale or removed, by all means be WP:SOFIXIT, but not while the inuse notice is merely 60 seconds old.

Your final reply to me before you deleted our conversation shows no understanding of how your impatience to remove an error message disrupted aative content creation, let alone any sign of an intent to desist from that sort of disruption in future.

That's a decidedly uncollaborative approach, which impedes the creation and development of content, in pursuit of what?

I had hoped that your response might be to acknowledge that you had learnt from a good faith error, but instead it seems to be a determination to both continue this form of disruption, and remove the evidence of it from your talk page. Sooner or later, that sort of conduct will be challenged more firmly than I have done on this occasion. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:14, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

I was only telling what I had experienced before. I archive conversations but later. I know I had bothered and it was not my intention, I really had no idea about the consequence, so I am sorry for that and I won't do it again with just anyone. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 16:19, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, OccultZone. That's very reassuring, and helps ease my feeling that content creation was being made into an obstacle course. Matter resolved :) --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:25, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I feel like I've learned a lot today. Thanks too. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 17:06, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Not keeping it too big, but I had agreed about not changing dates anymore, I did it on some 160 pages, while 145 were correct(related to american subject). I knew how to rectify from start, if any of my change was bigger than 60 bytes. Because it would mostly remove the engvar and dmy tag or even adding comma can be reflected on any edit that has added more bytes to it. That was about few hours ago. Since then I haven't used AWB for dating. All of my later 500 edits were manually done. I have added dmy dates tag to your article so that anyone with similar scrip may won't change, or if they did it will specifically explicit. Thanks OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 02:16, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Categorization of user sandbox

Hi BrownHairedGirl! When you have a chance, could you please comment out the article categories on your user sandbox page User:BrownHairedGirl/Edward Henry Cooper per WP:USERNOCAT? (My bot and I are respecting your {{inuse}} tag on the page.) Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 19:38, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

@GoingBatty: I had hope that this article would be a fairly-quickly-completed effort in mainspace, but sadly it got driven out of mainpsace by a meddler who ignored the prominent {{inuse}} banner (see above). I intended it to be back in mainspace within an hour, but some research has taken a little longer than planned, so I guess it may be in userspace for up another 24 hours. No big deal, I thought.

You did ask very nicely, and were kind enough to respect the {{inuse}} tag, but I wonder whether this was really needed? I have done it now to avoid hassle, but my faith in the content creation process has been dimmed a little further :(

I see 4 article creations by you in the last year, which I am sure are valuable additions to Misplaced Pages, and there is no requirement to be a content-creator at all. But I wonder whether if you did a little more creation you might be a little more inclined to to recall that there is WP:NODEADLINE? Just a thought. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:18, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your quick reply! I understand the belief that there is no deadline to create or update articles, and therefore some users keep drafts in their user sandboxes for days, weeks, or months. One way to keep other users away from your drafts is to make sure users can't find them on article category pages. Thank you for reminding me about my article creations - I had forgotten that I created a few of those. It's nice to see that some stubs I've started have been greatly improved by other editors. You're right - if I were to spend more time creating articles, I would spend less time on wikignomic activities. However, I like those activities, especially recently trying to find little niches where I can create a bot that can carry out repetitive and mundane tasks. For this specific task of uncategorizing user drafts, after my bot cleans up as many user pages as it can, I've been investigating those pages it skips and doing some detective work to find out why. Yours was easy to figure out, and I appreciate you taking care of it so quickly!

If you would like, I would be happy to do some minor tweaking to the article once you have completed your work and moved it to articlespace. Good luck with your work on the article! GoingBatty (talk) 02:29, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi GoingBatty, and sorry for the slow reply.

FYI, Edward Henry Cooper is back in mainspace. I am reasonably pleased with how far I was able to take the article. Probably not someone I would have liked, but definitely a notable life.

I take your point about gnoming being what you enjoy, and that's great. It's valuable work, and if enjoy it, everyone wins. My point is that I think greater experience of developing an article from scratch to a way-beyond-stub might change your perspective on a bit on the impact of gnoming. My gripe here is that in the early stages of a draft, I was twice interrupted by gnomes, which I don't think is a good thing.

In this case, you encountered a newly-created draft under construction, with mainspace categories. If a draft is stale or long-standing, then you are right to seek its removal from mainspace categories ... but I think that a little less urgency would have been nice for a fresh draft. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:46, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Sorry that you found my request to be an interruption, and sorry for whatever I did that led you to believe that there would be some "hassle" from me if you didn't honor my request. Thank you for your feedback, and congratulations on your article! GoingBatty (talk) 22:45, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

DYK for John Johnstone (East India Company)

On 19 July 2014, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article John Johnstone (East India Company), which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that in 1765, Scottish nabob John Johnstone, aged 31, returned from India with a fortune equivalent to £25 million in 2014? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/John Johnstone (East India Company). You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, live views, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Gatoclass (talk) 05:41, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Hmm. 3400 page views. I think that's a record for my DYKs. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:32, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Congratulations! Shipsview (talk) 17:39, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Suggestions for the additions in Arthur Richardson (politician) page

Please mention the name of Mr Arthur Richardson's younger son, Captain Donald Richardson, who got Military cross medal for showing velour at the height of the Battle of Passchendaele,August 22 1917.

The fact that Captain Donald Richardson was a son of Mr Arthur Richardson is mentioned in newspaper Nottingham Post in 1918.

1. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-one/10358335/WW1-The-siege-of-Fray-Bentos-at-the-Battle-of-Passchendaele.html
2. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2445626/Incredible-bravery-WWI-tank-crew-survived-72-hours-bombarded-Germans-side.html

-- — Preceding unsigned comment added by NAgnihotri (talk • contribs) 05:03, 20 July 2014‎

Hi NAgnihotri, and thanks for your message.

I have a better idea: why don't you add the info? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:30, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Harlon Carter

Hello,

Could you please take a look at Template:Did you know nominations/Harlon Carter? Thanks, GabrielF (talk) 18:55, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi GabrielF.

Good to go. Sorry I missed the ping. For some reason it never showed up in my notifications, so I am gonna make a bug report. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:42, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the review! GabrielF (talk) 22:24, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Armonía

Sorry for the negative experience with the Armonía Somers nom. Rosiestep (talk) 20:43, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Rosiestep. That's very kind of you.

It's a pity, because it wouldn't have taken much work on the article to wrap up Template:Did you know nominations/Armonía Somers. But I can't do a review if the review process is mistaken as some form of persecution :(

There is no deadline for completing a DYK review (e.g. John Johnstone (East India Company) hung around for a month), so I'm just sorry that you co-editor mistook it as a form of pressure :(

I haven't closed the review, so if you want to change your mind about withdrawing the nom, another reviewer may want to take it over. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 21:01, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

I'll think about it but I'm inclined to just let it go. Some of it is 'lost steam'; and I don't want to offend the co-editor by trimming what he added, even if the refs aren't spot-on. On the other hand, self-removing a woman's biography from the DYK nom process is disheartening as I'm mindful that women's biographies are a minority (compared to men's) at DYK (except in March, Women's History Month). --Rosiestep (talk) 03:31, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Edward Henry Cooper

Hello! Your submission of Edward Henry Cooper at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Warofdreams talk 18:04, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Abt Nepal Bhasa

Hi there, I was wondering if you could moderate the discussion of the article and watch over the page. A few editors and I have been working on the page, on and off, since 2006. Recently, another user has started moving the page (without citing reasons), deleting sources and creating a hostile, polarized environment there. I would greatly appreciate some moderation there. Thank you--Eukesh (talk) 14:35, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi Eukesh

I do not want to become directly involved in the dispute. However, I have fully protected the page for one month, and I have left an explanatory note on the article's talk page.

Good luck in achieving consensus on how to develop the article. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:08, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your intervention. Is it possible to have some degree of moderation from an admin there?

Also, I have noticed that the environment in English wiki, in general, is becoming more hostile and bureaucratic. I have volunteered as an admin in more than 10 language edition wikipedias and have helped communities grow in smaller wikis. It is really disheartening to see more experienced users involved in hostile takeovers and edit conflicts in English wiki. I think that the experienced users should rather be focusing on community development and building cordial environment. I sincerely hope that, you people, who are really active in this chapter, do something about improving the atmosphere here. Thanks again!--Eukesh (talk) 18:28, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi again, Eukesh.

The general expectation at en.wp is that discussions will be moderated by the participants themselves. Uninvolved moderators are brought in only to big, intractable disputes, such as the various discussions at WP:IECOLL about the title of the article Republic of Ireland. The disagreements over this language are at a much lower level.

As to the problems of bureaucracy and conflict, I'm afraid that those are large systemic problems which are very hard to turn around. English Misplaced Pages is huge, and structural flaws in the Misplaced Pages model which don't show up in a smaller project become serious here. I have my own views on how to change things, but it would be a long essay ... so I just concentrate on creating content, helping fight the odd fire, and trying to conduct myself in the way I would like others to behave. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:35, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Newari language

Hi,

If you're going to protect Newari language, please mark it as disputed. BTW, there's the same issue at Classical Newari. — kwami (talk) 22:55, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi kwami

If you want the page tagged, you can make an {{edit protected}} request. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:59, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

CIR problem

Hi. I wanted to get your input on a problematic user – Pawan Bariaar. They edit primarily cricket (the sport, not the critter) articles. A lot of the edits are to add/update statistics, but they also write prose describing individual matches. The problem is, they don't know how to conjugate verbs, use articles, spell, punctuate, etc. Until I pointed it out, they Capitalized Every Word In A Sentence, and they still over-capitalize routinely.

It's unreasonable to think this person's grammar could suddenly improve, so the alternative other than blocking would seem to be that they need a partner to edit their submissions before posting, if there are such editors willing to do so. Is there such a solution, other than asking for a block?

Thanks for your help. —— 06:03, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi AlanM1, and thanks for the msg.

The direct answer is the Guild of Copy Editors, who may be able to help.

However, I have have taken a quick look at this editor's most recent contributions, which consist of a series of edits to Clint McKay. That's a lot of poorly-written, and wholly unsourced, additions to a BLP.

Why copy-edit unsourced additions to a BLP rather than reverting them?

I am all in favour helping editors improve, but the bottom line is that competence is required. I don't see any reason so far to believe that this editor has the necessary competence to edit an encyclopedia. Do you? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 08:46, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Not by themselves, no. It just felt a little different than the average kiddie-spew, like they could overcome all but the grammar with an editor behind them to clean that up. I don't value all the up-to-the-second sports stats that seem to be acceptable, though, to be that editor. —— 08:55, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

AlanM1, I guess I tend to be more hardline on this than most, but my concern is that Misplaced Pages simply does not have the resources to handle editors who need a permanent cleanup-team at their service.

As the number of active editors declines, all sorts of community processes are becoming hollowed out. Tumbleweed blows through the empty halls of scores of WikiProjects, while most of the others are barely alive. Processes such as XFD are increasingly shaky due to lack of participation, and some important ones such as editor review are moribund. There is no mechanism for deposing rotten admins, so the community will appoint new admins only after they have survived such appallingly intense scrutiny that hardly anyone applies.

There are many competently-written, workmanlike articles which would benefit immensely from a polish, but we have only a fraction of the number of active copy-editors which would be needed to do so at a rate which would maintain quality, let alone improve it.

It just doesn't make sense to me to stretch that limited cleanup team any further by bending over backwards to accommodate incompetents.

As ever, YMMV :) --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:26, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

...survived such appallingly intense scrutiny that hardly anyone applies You've got that right. At the start, I said "bring it on". Now, I'm wondering why I'm wasting my time, particularly when getting picked at over things I don't want to be involved in, following guidelines for service awards as written, and a single syntax "error" in a place without a defined syntax

As to the problem at hand, where do we go from here? Should I bring it to AN (or ANI) or what? —— 09:46, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

AlanM1, I hope that you don't take the RFA saga personally. It's a ritual everyone has to go through these days :(

As I noted above, adminship comes with no time limit and is near impossible to remove, so editors are displaying inevitable hyper-caution in looking for unattainable certainty in their scrutiny of candidates.

I find myself driven to exactly the same near-paranoia in reviewing your RFA. Everything I have seen of you suggests that you are civil, articulate, open to other views, and slow to get defensive. Those are core qualities in an admin, so I would love to be able to support your RFA.

However, I don't see much evidence of you handling policy decisions, or brokering disputes. In most other contexts, I'd say fine; those are things which mostly apply once you have the job. You look like a decent person, so we will give you the mop and see how you do with this particular challenge. That's who I'd do it in an election, or when appointing someone for a job: the ingredients mostly look right, so we'll live with a few reservations and try the recipe. That what happened at my own RFA, back in 2006. I'm v grateful to have had the chance then, and to have mostly retained the confidence of the community since.

I'd like to do the same for you, but what I know now is that what RFA would be doing, is giving you the mop for life unless you go absolutely totally disastrously wrong. If you just turned to be middling bad as an admin, we would be stuck with you. There is now way to say, "sorry, this admin thing isn't working out as brilliantly as we hoped, so please go back to being a great editor". The only options are either to crucify you, or leave you to carry on.

So I dunno what to with your RFA. I think that a not-yet oppose is the best reflection of how I have to assess against the insane structures, a neutral is as nice as I can do ... and since I hate doing either, I will probably refrain from any comment at RFA.

As to this dude, I suggest a gentle pointer to the problems, a little dialogue, and encourage him to seek a mentor. I don't think there would be support for admin action at this stage. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:07, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Just for the record, I wasn't canvassing, just venting a little because you mentioned the issue, without which I would not have said anything I chose you because of your comments in a similar ANI case.

The fact that it's hard to remove an admin is clearly the problem. I've never hired someone under those conditions in real life – I don't know why Misplaced Pages should be any different. Clearly, an initial probationary period (say, 90 days), during which an expedited recall process is in place, makes sense. Longer-term, I don't know what the process is, but to me, if someone routinely screws up and doesn't want to fix or stop it, it makes sense to de-admin them.

Another thing that seems out-of-balance is that "gentleman's agreement" sanctions are often used for refrain-from-doing-something bans against users that have demonstrated an inability to do something properly, relying on the sanctioned user to obey (or else...). Why isn't an admin applicant, who has not done something wrong, given the same courtesy, especially when they state up front, before the issue is even raised, that they will not do something without seeking help if they are not experienced or sure of policy (rhetorically)? That's pretty twisted.

Back to the cricket guy... I did point out the issues to them here, to which they did not respond, and initially ignored. I get that – nobody likes to be told they're incompetent – and I tried to soften it as much as possible while still retaining the needed strength. I warned again here when they ignored it. At some point, they stopped The Gratuitous Capitalizing, but there's still a fundamental problem with English that can't likely be fixed soon. They also didn't seem interested in fixing (or were not able to fix) their previous contributions as I had asked.

Miniapolis shows as "available" at GCE, so I'll contact them and see if they're interested.

Thanks for your support. —— 21:34, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

AlanM1, I didn't for a moment think you were canvassing in any sense, and I hope that my post didn't imply an suggestion that you were. It was me who brought up the topic of RFA! Sorry if my thinking out loud at an inopportune moment caused any embarassment.

Good call on seeking out a mentor for Pawan Bariaar. I dunno if it will do any good, but it's worth a try. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:45, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for July 24

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Edward Joshua Cooper, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Shooting star. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Hi!Choi hyun44 (talk) 02:01, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Hostile environment

Hallo BHG, do you find this message acceptable? It's one of the most aggressive things I've come across on WP but apparently it's considered to be quite OK because it's a quote from some film. What do you think? PamD 12:21, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi PamD, pls can you give me a diff? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:25, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, not clear: it's the "welcome message" at the top of the talk page. I'm fairly sure I raised it at ANI or somewhere, years ago, and was laughed out of court. It still makes me cringe any time I have cause to look at that page. PamD 12:27, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) It's from the film Full Metal Jacket. A good movie. Doc talk 12:30, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Trying to find that old discussion, I've found an interesting entry at Wikiquette assistance: a complaint against that same editor which was closed as "Resolved: OP retired". Not an ideal resolution. PamD 12:35, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

And? You're allowed to have film quotes on your user page, "aggressive" or not. The message is "acceptable". Doc talk 12:39, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

If it was labelled as a quote from a film, then fine: it's not. It just looks like pure aggression. PamD 12:44, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, just wandering by after the brouhaha at Jimbo's talk, but I don't get the "it's a quote from a film so it's ok" argument. Can I put quotes from 70's porn movies (I'm sure there's some dialog somewhere) ? Or the Silence of the Lambs c-word scene when Clarice first meets Dr. Lecter? I dunno, I like Lugnuts, he's done a lot of good work over the years in alt music articles. But if I was a new user going to drop a note on his talk page about something, I'd feel a bit hesitant about he environment after reading that. Tarc (talk) 12:55, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Do we need only flowery, happy movie quotes on user pages? Who decides what is "aggressive" or not when it comes to movie quotes? This is a slippery slope. Doc talk 12:58, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

My own opinion is that the owner of the talk page should be advised to add the film attribution at the bottom of the quote, or at least, to enclose the quote in quotes. (I would illustrate quotes here, but in wiki markup, that is just too much work.) (At least it isn't insulting to any subgroup of humanity, but to humans in general.) Robert McClenon (talk) 13:05, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

I agree with that for sure. It is a direct quote from a copyrighted work, and it must be properly attributed. Doc talk 13:07, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Doc, I probably had a fair bit of a hand in making this place somewhat incivil over the years, something which I regret these days, and do what I can to see if things can be changed going forwards. No one's asking for flowers and bunnies everywhere, but at the the same time, the Misplaced Pages isn't a man-cave; the Bro code (if that turns out to be a redlink, it shouldn't be) isn't the rule of law here. That this and other tech/gaming/etc places on the internet are rather hostile towards a certain segment of our society is really undeniable, any more than global warming is deniable. The quibble comes in how to fix with it, or even getting people to want to fix with it. Tarc (talk) 13:14, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Let's just focus on this small issue of the film quote for now. Lugnuts needs to put an attribution to the quote. I do not see it as an "aggressive" quote, and I shudder to think that someone can decide that only a "friendly" quote is acceptable on a user's page. Doc talk 13:24, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Pam that this looks like pure aggression, and with Tarc that it would be discouraging to any user.

The fact that it is quote from something is irrelevant. A quotation is relevant in a discussion of the work from which it came, or of its author of the genre; but an editor who splats it across the top of their talk page has taken on the words as their own. Attribution would resolve any copyright issues, but it does not alter the inappropriateness of their use as the first words seen by an editor visiting that talk page.

I'm sure that if any of us were to scour the appropriate set of films or books, we could unearth a wide selection of aggressive, racist, misogynist or otherwise nasty comments. Their availability in print is no justification for repeating them out-of-context, and they should be removed. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:33, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is not censored. Doc talk 13:37, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

I would like to register my complete agreement with BHG. There is no end to the aggressive and insulting quotes that could be plucked out of context from media sources and used in a hostile manner. "Misplaced Pages is not censored" applies to our topical coverage, but is meaningless with respect to our internal discussion and displays. bd2412 T 13:39, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

(ec) @Doc9871, the encyclopedia is not censored, but this is not a discussion about encyclopedic content. It is a discussion about editorial interaction, where have a policy which requires editors to be civil to each other and to create a collaborative working environment. Similar rules exist in workplaces, in sports and social clubs, and even in elected assemblies such a parliament or congress. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:45, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

You think this is my first day here?! I desperately want to correct your misspellings in the above post, but I will let you do it. Doc talk 13:51, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

@Doc9871: I had assumed that it was not your first day here, and that you would be aware of WP:USERPAGE which says {{tqWhile considerable leeway is allowed in personalizing and managing your user pages, they are community project pages, not a personal website, blog, or social networking medium. They should be used to better participate in the community, and not used to excess for unrelated purposes nor to bring the project into disrepute.}}

A gratuitously aggressive message at the top of a talk page doe snot help an editor to better participate in the community.

As to my typos (due to a computer slowed by having too many tabs open), I point you to WP:TPG which says that it is not necessary to bring talk pages to publishing standards. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:17, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Nice of Pam to notify me of this. Oh wait, she did it in a sneaky clandestine way because she has cried about my edits before. This is basically Pam still complaining about my use of stub tagging which then lead to this, which was quickly closed as Pam hadn't a leg to stand on. Carry on with your quite sad vendetta. Lugnuts 14:01, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

And for the record, is the full quote. There's a bit missing from my talkpage... Lugnuts 14:04, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

"You will not laugh! You will not cry! You will learn by the numbers! I will teach you!" Doc talk 14:17, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Lugnuts, regardless of whether there is any other dispute between you and Pam, please will remove that quote from your talk page? It does nothing to foster a collaboration, which is the purpose of talk pages. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:19, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps you think I should remove my quote from Shakespeare's Macbeth on my user page because it doesn't "foster collaboration"? "Be bloody, bold and resolute." Nope. You should just drop it. Doc talk 14:28, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diplomacy
	For particularly insightful comments about the need for the WMF to address the separate but related problems of incivility and the gender gap, and to address the failing fifth pillar of civility. Robert McClenon (talk) 13:00, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Robert! I think it's really you who deserves a barnstar for trying to focus attention on the policy issue behind the ugly spat. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:36, 29 July 2014 (UTC)