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While the RFC is persuasive, why have you not attempted mediation? ] 07:40, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC) While the RFC is persuasive, why have you not attempted mediation? ] 07:40, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

:Because I'm unable to figure out how to assume good faith at this point. He calls me a fuck privately and then moans publicly about how he's tried to discuss this reasonably but I just wouldn't listen and blew him off. I'm not sure how to mediate with a liar like that. ] 14:20, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)


==== Comments and votes by Arbitrators (0/0/1/0) ==== ==== Comments and votes by Arbitrators (0/0/1/0) ====

Revision as of 14:20, 28 September 2004

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The last step of Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution is Arbitration, (see arbitration for a general overview of the topic). If, and only if, all other steps have failed, and you see no reasonable chance that the matter can be resolved in another manner, you may request that it be decided by the Arbitration Committee.

See Misplaced Pages:Arbitration policy, Misplaced Pages:Arbitrators, /Admin enforcement requested


Arbitration Committee proceedings Case requests

Currently, there are no requests for arbitration.

Open cases
Case name Links Evidence due Prop. Dec. due
Palestine-Israel articles 5 (t) (ev / t) (ws / t) (pd / t) 21 Dec 2024 11 Jan 2025
Recently closed cases (Past cases)

No cases have recently been closed (view all closed cases).

Clarification and Amendment requests

Currently, no requests for clarification or amendment are open.

Arbitrator motions
Motion name Date posted
Arbitrator workflow motions 1 December 2024

Earlier Steps

Please review Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution for other avenues you should take before requesting Arbitration. If you do not follow any of these routes, it is highly likely that your request for Arbitration will be rejected.

What belongs in Requests for Arbitration

  • The Complaint including enough links to evidence that an Arbitrator considering the matter can find examples of what is being complained of. Include links to any policy which applies.
  • The Response which should address the matters raised by the Complaint. Again, links to edits or other evidence are useful.
  • Any Complaint by the defendant against the user who made the original Complaint as well as against other users who have seconded the Complaint or were intimately involved in the events complained of.
  • Information regarding what steps of the Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution procedures were followed. Not the details, especially not what happened during any mediation.
  • Users may join in the Complaint by seconding the Complaint or elaborating on it, but by doing so they implicitly respresent that they wish to be a party to the case and are thus subject to counterclaims which they may have to respond to.

What doesn't belong in Requests for Arbitration

  • Comments regarding the viability of the Complaint by persons not involved in the matter.
  • Comments regarding how the matter is to be titled or the effect of choosing one title or another.
  • Any posting by anyone who is not involved in the case. These are welcome on the talk page.

Structure of this page

The procedure for accepting requests is described in the Arbitration policy. Important points:

  • Be brief - put a quick list of the nature of the complaints. Link to detailed evidence elsewhere if you need to.
  • You are required to place a notice on the user talk page of each person you lodge a complaint against.
  • Please sign and date at least your original submission with '~~~~'.
  • New requests to the top, please.

The numbers in the ====Comments and votes by Arbitrators (0/0/0/0)==== sections correspond to (Accept/Reject/Recuse/Other).

Current requests for Arbitration

User:VeryVerily

VeryVerily is endlessly reverting a controversial passage of the PNAC page. His version demolishes a strawman of the opposing side of the discussion, and falsely paints the issue as being resolved in favour of his own interpretations when in fact it's a matter of much debate even in mainstream media sources.

He also accuses me of just reverting everything he does, which I feel is a bit unfair because he was the first to revert (04:44 on the 25th of September). My version presents both sides of the issue, his presents only his own and the strawman.

I've tried to be reasonable but he just doesn't seem interested in any opinion but his own. He seems determined to make the article conform to his own worldview.

VeryVerily "rejects" mediation on the grounds it will be a waste of time and that the discussion isn't complete (when in fact, as a glance at the discussion page will reveal, it's just going around in circles). Is there anything that can be done? I'm a new Wikipedian and this annoying dispute is completely ruining my enjoyment of this place. Thanks. CK 13:10, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

User:Rex071404 3

I've titled this request with a "3" to distinguish it from the two pending arbitrations concerning this user.

Complaint: Rex has abused the Misplaced Pages:Vandalism in progress page by listing good-faith editing disputes. In related and unrelated instances, he has made personal attacks on other users by calling them "vandals" for nothing worse than disagreeing with him.

Evidence. There was a content dispute at the Stolen Honor article, in the course of which Rex reverted other editors twenty times in one day (by SWAdair's count -- see ). The article is about a video that criticizes John Kerry, and the dispute concerned whether to include certain information about the video's producer. Rex's edit summaries included multiple reiterations of such phrases as "remove once again the tag-team POV vandalism" (see, e.g., ); "restore page which is under attack by POV edit vandal" (see, e.g., ); and "restore page which is under attack by POV sockpuppet vandal" (see, e.g., ). In addition to these uncivil summaries, Rex added three listings to Misplaced Pages:Vandalism in progress, publicizing to the whole community his personal attacks on two of the editors who disagreed with him about the content of the article. See (against Antaeus Feldspar); (charging Sahara with being a "sockpuppet reincarnation of Antaeus Feldspar" and with vandalism); and (listing Sahara again 24 minutes later). Rex's attack on Sahara came on the latter's first day as a logged-in contributor to Misplaced Pages. Aside from the Stolen Honor dispute that prompted the improper ViP listings, Rex has made other accusations of vandalism in cases of editing disagreements; see, e.g., ("rv - Feldspar appears to be a sockpuppet or vandal") and ("restore again after JamesMLane's umpteenth POV vandalism").

Why mediation not attempted: Rex has previously engaged in such conduct and has been warned to desist. He listed an edit dispute as vandalism. . His improper addition to ViP was soon deleted by an uninvolved admin, —No-One Jones, who commented, "editing disputes are not vandalism; please do not bring them here". He also took the trouble to explain the point at greater length on Rex's talk page. Of course, he shouldn't have needed to do so. Just a few weeks earlier, Rex himself, in complaining to the Arbitration Committee about Neutrality, had quoted a warning left for Neutrality by Guanaco, stating that disputed edits to the John Kerry article were not vandalism. Mediation is not sought because Rex has already been advised of the policy, and has even referred to it himself when he finds it convenient. He simply refuses to follow it. Mediation can't tell him anything he doesn't already know, and the Mediation Committee and the parties to a mediation don't have the authority to change the existing policy.

Policies violated:

  • Substantive editing disagreements are not vandalism; this rule applies even if one editor contends that another has violated the NPOV policy. Misplaced Pages:Vandalism#What vandalism is not
  • Stating or implying that another user doesn't sincerely believe in the merits of a challenged edit violates the policy of assuming good faith.
  • The "Vandalism in progress" page is to be used "only ... for repeated malicious vandalism". Misplaced Pages:Vandalism in progress
  • Accusing other users of being sockpuppets or vandals violates the no personal attacks policy.
  • Attacking Sahara on his or her first day violated the policy of "don't bite the newbies". (Incidentally, when Rex's attack prompted Sahara to reciprocate with personal attacks, several of us explained to Sahara why this was improper -- and Sahara apologized. One might think that Rex was a newcomer and that Sahara had been here more than two months, instead of the other way around.)

Proposed remedy: Some of the information above has been presented to the committee in the earlier of the pending arbitration proceedings, as background to the discussion of Rex's having threatened an anonymous newcomer with a ViP listing . That proceeding concerns many other issues, however. This complaint asks that, for the specific offense of repeated improper listings on Misplaced Pages:Vandalism in progress, Rex be banned for 24 hours. The points addressed in the two pending proceedings would not be covered by this one-time limited ban.

I am authorized to state that Antaeus Feldspar joins in this complaint. JamesMLane 06:23, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Comments and votes by Arbitrators (0/1/0/0)

  1. Reject, with a caveat - drop this summary into the evidence page for the (already extant) Rex case. →Raul654 07:39, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)
  2. Reject. Please add this to the existing case. Fred Bauder 11:47, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

User:Netoholic

Netoholic’s propensity for conflict has gone on for some time now. Much of it is well-documented at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Netoholic. The RfC, however, was largely ineffective due to his assertion that, because no one certifying it had been involved with all of the disputes, its certification was invalid. Although I find the irony of the idea that Netoholic had done too many bad things to be actionable on RfC amusing, I find this disturbing, to say the least. To my knowledge, there are four central concerns with him.

  1. His edit war with JamesF and others, which culminated in him accusing JamesF and others of running a bot, and listing them on Vandalism in Progress with no meaningful cause.
  2. His edit war with Mintguy, in which he repeatedly removed a poll and reinstated an expired poll, demanding an extension of the poll until it gathered consensus. The poll, having majority opposition, was clearly never going to do this.
  3. His refactoring of comments, often removing informative information. One example is at , though really, you just want to look at the entire edit history of that page.
  4. Delisting of articles on VfD ( and .

His refactoring is, in many ways, the most severe problem, as he has continued it, most recently on my talk page at . As is often the case, what he is removing is not a personal attack.

Finally, and possibly not actionably, Netoholic opposed my request to run a bot to handle Templates for Deletion at Misplaced Pages Talk:Bots in the section titled Snowbot. The manner of his objection, particularly with its links to my edits, makes it clear that his only objection was that I had previously objected to his running a bot. Aggravating this was that he PMed me in IRC repeatedly while objecting to inform me that I was a “fuck.” A sample exchange follows:

<NetAway> lmao SnowBot. so if I object....
<Snowspinner> If you object, I'll ask you what you object to about me running a bot.
<NetAway> no, my objection should be enough, ya fuck.
<NetAway> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Guanaco&diff=6173231&oldid=6172763
<NetAway> How do I phrase "you're a fuck" in a nice way, to allow me to reply....

At one point, this spilled into the #wikipedia IRC channel:

<Snowspinner> Hey, I'm curious - someone just told me that there was a consensus that I was a fuck. Now, I'd probably vote neutral on a poll as to whether I'm a fuck, but I'm just curious - is there in fact consensus that I'm a fuck? Straw poll.
<cimon> Well, we can all improve.
<ugen64> i would support that argument, as you are a member of teh sekret cebal
--> Cantus (~Cantus@CM-lcon5-181-160.cm.vtr.net) has joined #wikipedia
<ugen64> hi cantus
<Netoholic> I would say you are a fuck, but you're also a channel op.
<bumm13> hi cactus
<-- Cantus (~Cantus@CM-lcon5-181-160.cm.vtr.net) has left #wikipedia
<Netoholic> so i guess i can't say that

I know IRC is not presently actionable, but I contend that his vote against my bot was clearly meant to be construed by me as a claim that I am a fuck, and is thus a personal attack.

Mediation, in this case, will not prove fruitful, simply because I am not inclined to mediate with someone who has repeatedly called me a fuck. Snowspinner 19:02, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)

My last comment there is perhaps more flippant than it needs to be. Let me clarify. I repeatedly told Netoholic that, if he would simply avoid any fracases like the ones listed above for a month, I would drop my objection to his bot and even apologize. I pointed him towards situations that I thought he'd handled badly.

Every time I did this, I was called a fuck.

Netoholic's continued abuse of me has driven me away from active editing on Misplaced Pages. This is not a situation that can be mediated. This is persistant harassment of the same level of ferocity and malice that characterized Kenneth Allen, Mr. Natural Health, Irismeister, and others, coupled with the cleverness to do it through unregulated channels. There is a level of abuse at which mediation is no longer useful or possible. Netoholic has passed that level. It is not reasonable to ask me to go into any negotiation that assumes good faith with a user who has reiterated, again and again, that he considers me to be a fuck. That level of contempt poisons the well far beyond what any negotiation based process can salvage. Snowspinner 21:29, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)

While the RFC is persuasive, why have you not attempted mediation? →Raul654 07:40, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

Because I'm unable to figure out how to assume good faith at this point. He calls me a fuck privately and then moans publicly about how he's tried to discuss this reasonably but I just wouldn't listen and blew him off. I'm not sure how to mediate with a liar like that. Snowspinner 14:20, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

Comments and votes by Arbitrators (0/0/1/0)

  1. Recuse (obviously). James F. (talk) 20:19, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  2. Reject, try mediation Fred Bauder 20:57, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)

User:Orthogonal

Orthogonal has engaged in a persistant campaign of harassment against me, beginning with his objection to my arbitration request against Avala, and continuing to the present day. This harassment has largely taken the form of personal attacks against me, many of which can be found on his userpage at User:Orthogonal. Note particularly the section in which he compares me to the Gestapo, his accusations of sysop abuse, and his link at the top about a “farewell” gift, the text of which contains his claim made in IRC that I am a kiddie fascist with training wheels on my jackboots. Less severe, but still troubling, is the entire rest of his page, which is, at this point, mostly about his criticism and dislike of me. Indeed, this seems to summarize his entire Misplaced Pages interaction these days. Virtually all he does is attack me and make votes on RFA in which he sarcastically remarks that it's so easy to remove sysops, so why not promote people.

Although his userpage indicates that he has departed, this appears to be complete fiction. Less than 24 hours after his announced departure, he resurfaced to argue against my using a bot to automate tedious aspects of managing Misplaced Pages:Templates for deletion, making claims that are misleading at best, and lies at worst, such as that I have removed votes opposing my own vote. In defending these claims, he called me “incompetent to run a bot – or to make any other important decisions for Misplaced Pages.”

An RFC has been attempted at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/orthogonal. Mediation was also attempted, but he withdrew from mediation as part of his “departure.” To date, despite his accusations of persistent abuse on my part, he has made no efforts whatsoever to settle his dispute with me, and has repeatedly refused suggestions from multiple people that he should start an RfC, or request arbitration if I’m such a systematically abusive sysop. Instead, he directs all attention to his user subpage User:Orthogonal/Snowspinner Time-line, which contains exactly one accusation of abuse, that I blocked User:Robert Brookes for personal attacks. This, apparently, is my pattern of persistant sysop abuse.

Orthogonal’s campaign against me has, with his refusal to allow me to run a bot to automate a simple and tedious task, effectively forced me into indefinite wikibreak, simply because I cannot handle this level of abuse. I request action against this user so that I can get back to work on the project. Snowspinner 15:44, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)

Note: this case was accepted for mediation, but has been archived after the mediation was inactive due to lack of action by the disputants and the case was listed here. see Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_mediation/Archive_10#User:Snowspinner_and_User:orthogonal for more information.
BCorr, Chair of the Mediation Committee, 16:53, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  • Given that much of Snowspinner's official actions of that I object to, Snowspinner has justified by quoting Raul654 , , and given that Snowspinner, after announcing that my "harassment" had caused him to leave Misplaced Pages , may have conferred with Raul654 , and given that Raul654 is a member of the Arbitration Committee, I wonder if Raul654 might consider it in the best interests of Misplaced Pages to avoid any appearance of impropriety (not that I think there is any collusion) by recusing himself from this matter? -- orthogonal 17:39, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Comments and votes by Arbitrators (3/0/2/0)

  1. Accept. Previous steps in the dispute process have clearly not resolved the dispute. →Raul654 17:02, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC) - Recuse. I think orgthogonal makes a good point, although I still strongly encourage other members of the arbcom to take the case. →Raul654 20:28, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
  2. Fred Bauder 17:24, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
  3. Accept. James F. (talk) 18:16, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  4. Recuse, owing to prior attempts to settle the dispute outside my role as arbitrator. Jwrosenzweig 20:09, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  5. Accept. Nohat 20:21, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

User:Mintguy

User:Mintguy has violated the blocking policy repeatedly by his actions of blocking users over edit conflicts which he is part of, particularly regarding User:Kenneth Alan. His actions violate the Unpopular opinions policy, among others, and the behavior constitutes abuse of Admin privileges. I request that appropriate action be taken against Mintguy. This request comes after Jimbo Wales stated on the Misplaced Pages mailing list (WikiEN-l) on Tue Sep 21 19:11:25 UTC 2004 :

Absolutely it is not a valid option for someone who is involved in editing the article. The first and foremost cardinal rule of ethics for sysop powers is that you must never ever use them to win a dispute about content. If we allowed that, it would be the end of NPOV and the beginning of SPOV (sysop point of view). --Jimbo

Subsequent other replies to the Zero0000-related email thread give further support for this position.

Most of the evidence for this can already be found in the archived RFC located at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Mintguy, along with other abuses such as "Three revert" and ad hominem roll-back reverts of all Kenneth Alan's contributions. I believe this constitutes enough evidence to re-evaluate his status. -- Netoholic @ 05:37, 2004 Sep 22 (UTC)

I also find a massive problem with Mintguy's thuglike tactics in which he responds to his friends' talk pages with something like a sentence but that doesn't convey an open message, in reference to myself or Netoholic. I fear that they are coordinating a conspiracy about both myself and Netoholic and Mintguy is doing the chief brokering of this issue between them. He has taken it upon himself to bullying and the several circumstances I have seen him leave a blurp on his allies' talk pages really do concern me when they are absolutely in reference to what has been going on with the campaign to remove myself and Netoholic. Køn Olsen 22:34, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

A similar arbitration (regarding User:Zero0000 was recently accepted based solely on a block done in the "heat" of an edit dispute. I feel the recent block of myself (documented in the RFC also) is sufficient cause for acceptance of this matter, the same as the previous one. -- Netoholic @ 23:39, 2004 Sep 23 (UTC)

Two comments. First, I am not sure where mediation would help here - this is a complaint from multiple users about one admin's use of those powers. If this were a simple editorial dispute, I would agree and would have pursued that. Perhaps an Arbitrator could explain. Second point, if it looks like this is going to be rejected, I would ask the Arbitrators to run it by Jimbo, since I don't see any difference between this and the Zero0000 matter - except that further abuses have been voiced against Mintguy than blocking against policy. Again, I hope the Arbitrators can be more verbose as to their reasons. -- Netoholic @ 01:38, 2004 Sep 26 (UTC)

Jwrosenzweig -- I think you mis-read my request. While the minor items in the RFC were not met with support, the new charge (in which he blocked me personally) was only recently added, for "record-keeping". Overall, I did not expect to have to present all my evidence here in the first request. On it's face, though, Mintguy and I were both editing the same page, disagree on its content, and he blocked me as a direct result of that -- clearly not a course of action which should be supported by refusing this matter. There are other examples (perhaps minor) which show use of admin-only privileges to settle editorial disputes, on such things as spelling. Almost no effort was made by him in any instances todiscuss the concerns, rather than take these actions.
I have to raise concern as to your impartiality in this matter. You've contacted Mintguy directly to offer advice to him and other comments ("I like you, Mintguy, and I know you have Misplaced Pages's best interests at heart."), so I would now ask you to consider recusing yourself from this. -- Netoholic @ 07:24, 2004 Sep 28 (UTC)

Current system time is: 2025-01-10 21:01 UTC

Comments and votes by Arbitrators (0/5/1/0)

  1. Reject -- the RFC does not show sufficient cause for arbitration. Jwrosenzweig 22:28, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
    • In response to Netoholic's request for further explanation, I would say that, though Mintguy is being accused of a similar action to Zero's, the evidence is different -- the block is far less clearly for personal content reasons, and unlike Zero, Mintguy's actions do not seem to be taken in open defiance of policy (which is a clear signal to arbitrate, in my personal opinion). I consider the other charges against Mintguy to be almost universally without merit -- they are extraordinarily minor charges that have the weight of community consensus strongly opposed, and in the absence of a clear policy violation, I'd say consensus is a reasonable guide. Jwrosenzweig 20:34, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  2. Refer to mediation. Accept if Mintguy refuses to accept mediation. Martin 15:27, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  3. Reject. Mediate first. --the Epopt 22:24, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  4. Reject. Recommend mediation. →Raul654 22:30, Sep 25, 2004 (UTC)
  5. Reject, no prima facia case, Fred Bauder 14:41, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
  6. Recuse, though it makes no odds. James F. (talk) 18:16, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Matters currently in Arbitration

/Template

Rejected requests

  • Avala vs various users - Rejected - try other forms of dispute resolution first, please. Discussion moved to User talk:Avala
  • Wheeler vs 172 - Rejected - please try mediation first. Discussion moved to user talk:WHEELER
  • Cheng v. Anonymous and others - Rejected - refer to wikipedia:username for name change policy. For content dispute, try other forms of dispute resolution first, please. Discussion moved to User talk:Nathan w cheng.
  • WikiUser vs. unspecified others - Rejected due to lack of a specific request.
  • Simonides vs. "everyone" - Rejected - referred to the Mediation Committee.
  • Sam Spade vs. Danny - Withdrawn
  • Sam Spade vs. AndyL - Withdrawn
  • Raul654 vs Anthony DiPierro - Withdrawn after agreement of both parties (see standing order).
  • RickK - Rejected - referred to the Mediation Committee.
  • Mike Storm - Rejected - please try earlier steps in the dispute resolution process.
  • Lir (IRC blocking claims) - Rejected due to either a lack of jurisdiction (the IRC channels are not official), or a failure to follow earlier steps.
  • Sam Spade vs. 172 - Rejected - please try earlier steps in the dispute resolution process.
  • User:JRR Trollkien 2 - Inconclusive deadlock: 3 votes to reject, none to accept. Archived at User talk:JRR Trollkien
  • Tim Starling - Rejected.
  • VeryVerily - Rejected - please try earlier steps in the dispute resolution process.
  • Xed vs. Jimbo Wales - Rejected - lack of jurisidiction over Jimbo, private email, lack of initial litigant's involvment, and various other reasons.
  • Emsworth vs. Xed - Rejected
  • Gene Poole vs. Gzornenplatz - Rejected - please try earlier steps in the dispute resolution process.

Completed requests

  • /Theresa knott vs. Mr-Natural-Health - Decided on 11th Februry 2004 that Mr-Natural-Health would be banned from editing for 30 days (i.e., until 12 Mar 2004). The vote was 6-2 in favor of banning, with 2 explicit and 1 de-facto abstention.
  • /Plautus satire vs Raul654 - Decided on 11th March 2004 that Plautus satire is to be banned for one year, up to and including March 11 2005. The vote was unanimous with 8 votes in favour and 1 de-facto abstention; a further vote in favour of extending the ban indefinitely was held but not met.
  • /Wik - Decided on 15th March 2004 that Wik would have a three month probation during which he may be temp-banned in certain circumstances. There were six votes in favour, three opposed, and one de-facto abstention. Further decisions and minority opinions can be read at /Wik.
  • /Anthony DiPierro - Decided on 25th April 2004 to instruct Anthony with regards to his VfD edits, and refer other issues to mediation. The vote was unanimous with 6 votes in favour and 4 de-facto abstentions. Note that the case was accepted solely to investigate use of VfD.
  • /Mav v. 168 - Closed on 03 July 2004 with an open verdict.
  • /Cantus - Decided on 01 Aug 2004, apply a revert parole to Cantus and other remedies.
  • /Lir - Decided on 23 Aug 2004, blocked for 15 days, revert parole applied, and other remedies.
  • /Mr-Natural-Health - Decided on 26 Aug 2004. There was an earlier partial decision on 25 June.
  • /Lyndon LaRouche (Herschelkrustofsky, Adam_Carr, John_Kenney, and AndyL) - Decided on 12 Sep 2004.
  • /User:PolishPoliticians - Decided on 18 Sep 2004, personal attack parole applied to PolishPoliticians and all new accounts on affected pages.
  • /ChrisO and Levzur Closed on 20 Sep 2004 with an open verdict; no ruling necessary, as Levzur has ceased contributing to Misplaced Pages.
  • /K1 - Closed on 28 Sep 2004 with an open verdict; no ruling necessary, as K1 has ceased contributing to Misplaced Pages.
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