Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 14:43, 28 September 2014

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Slavs article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7Auto-archiving period: 2 months

Template:Vital article

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Ethnic groups Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ethnic groupsWikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groupsTemplate:WikiProject Ethnic groupsEthnic groups Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. WikiProject Ethnic groups open tasks: Here are some open WikiProject Ethnic groups tasks: Meta-tasks: Place the {{Ethnic groups}} template on the talk page of articles within the scope of this project. Resolve the disparity in importance rankings among different ethnic groups Articles about ethnic groups that currently have issues needing resolution: Category:Unassessed Ethnic groups articles Category:Ethnic groups articles needing merge action Category:Ethnic groups articles needing infoboxes Category:Ethnic groups articles needing reassessment Category:Ethnic groups articles needing attention Iyer Peruvian people Start an article: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Article requests Feel free to edit this list or discuss these tasks. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Yugoslavia High‑importance Slavs is within the scope of WikiProject Yugoslavia, a collaborative effort to improve the Misplaced Pages coverage of articles related to Yugoslavia and its nations. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.YugoslaviaWikipedia:WikiProject YugoslaviaTemplate:WikiProject YugoslaviaYugoslavia High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Belarus High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Belarus, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Belarus on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BelarusWikipedia:WikiProject BelarusTemplate:WikiProject BelarusBelarus High This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Bosnia and Herzegovina High‑importance Slavs is part of the WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Bosnia and Herzegovina on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.Bosnia and HerzegovinaWikipedia:WikiProject Bosnia and HerzegovinaTemplate:WikiProject Bosnia and HerzegovinaBosnia and Herzegovina High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Bulgaria High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Bulgaria, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Bulgaria on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BulgariaWikipedia:WikiProject BulgariaTemplate:WikiProject BulgariaBulgaria High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Croatia High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Croatia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Croatia on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CroatiaWikipedia:WikiProject CroatiaTemplate:WikiProject CroatiaCroatia High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Czech Republic High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Czech Republic, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Czech Republic on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Czech RepublicWikipedia:WikiProject Czech RepublicTemplate:WikiProject Czech RepublicCzech Republic High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. [REDACTED] North Macedonia High‑importance [REDACTED] This article is within the scope of WikiProject North Macedonia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of North Macedonia on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.North MacedoniaWikipedia:WikiProject North MacedoniaTemplate:WikiProject North MacedoniaNorth Macedonia High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Montenegro High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Montenegro, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Montenegro on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MontenegroWikipedia:WikiProject MontenegroTemplate:WikiProject MontenegroMontenegro High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Poland High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Poland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Poland on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PolandWikipedia:WikiProject PolandTemplate:WikiProject PolandPoland High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Russia: History / Demographics & ethnography Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Misplaced Pages. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by the history of Russia task force. This article is supported by the demographics and ethnography of Russia task force. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Serbia High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Serbia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Serbia on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SerbiaWikipedia:WikiProject SerbiaTemplate:WikiProject SerbiaSerbia High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Slovakia High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Slovakia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Slovakia on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SlovakiaWikipedia:WikiProject SlovakiaTemplate:WikiProject SlovakiaSlovakia High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Slovenia High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Slovenia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Slovenia on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SloveniaWikipedia:WikiProject SloveniaTemplate:WikiProject SloveniaSlovenia High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. WikiProject Slovenia to-do list: edit history watch purge Here are some tasks you can do (watch): Requests: , Protestant Reformation in the Slovene Lands (sl), Metlika black (sl) Wikify: Russia–Slovenia relations Unreferenced: Inner Carniola, Litostroj, Pavel Golia, Predjama Castle Cleanup: Edvard Ravnikar, Škofja Loka, Inex-Adria Aviopromet Flight 1308 Expand: Education in Slovenia Stubs: Ajdovi žganci, Čop Street, Radenska NPOV: Gregorij Rožman, Siddharta (band) Portal maintenance: Update News, Did you know, announcements, and suggest Selected article and picture Help assess the quality of 36 unassessed articles Take/Add requested photographs Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Ukraine High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ukraine, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ukraine on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.UkraineWikipedia:WikiProject UkraineTemplate:WikiProject UkraineUkraine High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Mosaic in infobox

Hallo! I created a mosaic with 30 famous persons from different slavic countries, aranged chronologically by date of birth. It will seems good if added this picture in infobox, by me.--Stolichanin (talk) 21:15, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

It is a great idea, by me. The images are clearly and tidy. In addition, there are more non-Russians and more women than current infobox photos, which is great. --151.237.102.118 (talk) 05:55, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Thank you very much! It seems has no other opinions and I added this picture in infobox.--Stolichanin (talk) 06:28, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Would be better if it does include captions with names. For non-slavic people could be these persons unknown. Could you add it there? Jirka.h23 (talk) 09:02, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

The captions with names are include in infobox under the picture.--Stolichanin (talk) 09:29, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

The issue of images in the infobox comes up pretty often; I'm sure someone else will come along in several months and replace this one with their own. I'd much rather see no collage at all in the infobox. This one in particular seems to have a disproportionate amount of Bulgarians. --Local hero 18:08, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

What disproportionate amount of Bulgarians? Look at carefully! Bulgarians - 6, Poles - 6, Russians - 7. The Russians remain a majority in the picture. In the previous version they was 11, which was too much. I think you need to reduce the number of Russians to 6. --151.237.102.118 (talk) 06:43, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Yes, the number of Russians was too much in the previous version, so I reduce it to 7. But the faces in the photo are known and important people for the Slavs and the world as a whole. Their nationality is of secondary importance. However, the Russians are majority in the picture, because Russia is the largest Slavic country and has a many popular and significant people with international importance. Nobody of slavists and the people, who are interesting of history and culture of Slavs will agree with the views of Local hero that Bulgarians are too many. They are the same number as Poles. Bulgaria is the first Slavic state (681) and is one of the most influential countries in the history of the Slavs and Europe (the creation and spreading of the Cyrillic alphabet, the influence of Old Bulgarian culture and art over whole Slavic world, etc. Read First Bulgarian Empire,Second Bulgarian Empire and related articles - the first two persons in picture - Kliment Ohridski and Simeon the Great are representing this) and the fact that Bulgarians have also many world famous and significant people like a Vazov, Boris Christoff and Irina Bokova, who are proposed in the article. The same things are valid about Poland, which was other powerful and influential Slavic state (Read Rzecz Pospolita and related articles) and about Sienkiewicz, Chopin, Pope John Paul II, etc. As about the other countries, but these 3 states were comment by you. I mean the images are aranged chronologically, because these people representing different moments in the history of Slavs. The fact that one nation has 7 images, while others has 6 or 5 images is not relevant and it mean nothing. It is just one image with Slavic people. If we separate the persons by Slavic groups - the South Slavs have 11 persons, the West Slavs - 10, East Slavs - 9. But the Southern Slavic states are 7, while Eastern are 3 and Western are 3. But it is not so important. Moreover the nationality of some people (especially from former Yugoslavia) is controversial - Ivo Andric is thinking like Serbian, Bosnian and Croatian. But he is there as one of the greatest Slavic writers of 20th century. In addition these 3 countries are Slavic. And finally the number of women grow to 5--Stolichanin (talk) 08:08, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Would you mind logging in for all of your comments? Some might be mistaken and think that you and the IP are separate users.

Yes, I do believe there too many Bulgarians; One-fifth of the images are of Bulgarians while they only make up less than 3% of Slavs. Russians are by far the largest so, proportionally, they should have by far the most.

However, I think it should be based simply on who the most well-known individuals are. I've never heard of Bokova. That alone, of course, does not make her insignificant, but I do know that Peter the Great is far better known and does not appear in your collage. Novak Djokovic is one of the greatest tennis players of all time and didn't make it either.

I think your collage is flawed. I also think it may be tough to create an acceptable one. Thus, I'd rather we get rid of it altogether. --Local hero 15:19, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Kournikova is more greatest and popular than Djokovic. Local hero, for the first time your focus over Bulgarians surprise me, but I visited your page and now I understand what is the reason. You are our Macedonian brother, but pro-Yugoslavian Macedonian nationalist. Понеже и двамата сме българи, и произхождаме от един край (моята баба е от Скопие и аз имам лично отношение по този въпрос) дай да си пишем на български. Драги ми локален херой, няма да те убеждавам, че си българин, защото ти знаеш, че си българин. Ти си македонец, а аз съм половин македонец и половин софиянец. Общото е, че и двамата сме българи. Няма да ти обяснявам, че македонската нация е изкуствено създаден отвратителен проект на Коминтерна в лицето на Георги Димитров и Тито, защото ти го знаеш. Ако не го знаеш питай баба ти защо преди 1945 всички македонци са се смятали за българи. Не ме интересува кой югославски комунист от епохата Тито ти е промил мозъка, но в съвременния свят човек е свободен да се определя както си иска, дори като марсианец, така че аз уважавам твоя избор. Искам да те помоля да престанеш с тази омраза към българите. Не е нормално да мразиш собствения си народ. Откачено е. Не забравяй, че България беше първата държава, която призна Македония като отделна държава. Никой българин няма териториални претенции към Македония. Искаме просто вашата страна да спре да краде чужда история и да я фалшифицира (най-вече наша история, но и гръцка - пример: Александър Македонски). Благодаря!

P.S. тия 30 люде на сликата не са словени. Tия сите са македонци!--Stolichanin (talk) 16:34, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

The opinion of Local hero against Bulgarians may be was influenced by this. If it is just a individual opinion, which is not related to this, I apologize to User:Local hero. --Stolichanin (talk) 16:42, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Don't make this weird. Despite being a 'pro-Yugoslav Macedonian nationalist', I made no complaints at the lack of ethnic Macedonians in your collage. Clearly, the only bias visible here is yours. The current infobox personalities have been stable for at least a year or so. Thus, you'd need a consensus to change it, as Al Khazar states below. And apparently the style you've used goes against standards as well. --Local hero 18:15, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Who "ethnic Macedonian" is missing in the collage? Alexander the Great? Gotse Delchev? Tsar Samuil? Will Smith? The truth is never against standards. --Stolichanin (talk) 18:40, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Strongly Oppose: This proposition of yours is completely irrational. The style used is obsolete and not encouraged by Misplaced Pages's standards so keep that in mind. I expect a properly made consensus. Not one were you gain support from IP addresses. Khazar (talk) 18:02, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Khazar, if you want a properly made consensus, tell me what is your opinion (especially when you delete my contribs). Mosaics like this are using in many articles in Misplaced Pages - look at Germans, French people, Dutch people, Italians and many others. I think that it is the best way to representing the significant people of different nations and people.--Stolichanin (talk) 18:20, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Their common usage doesn't mean that it's acceptable. Just as Flags are discouraged from being used in infoboxes, so are the mosaics that are frequently used. However, most infoboxes contain both. Khazar (talk) 21:14, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

The new Mosaic is very bad, are all Slavs men and only one woman? that very funny — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.200.61.126 (talk) 22:22, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Adding another photo to the Photo Panel

I think that it would be fair if photos of Tchaikovsky, Chopin, and Dvorak, as the greatest Slavic composers, were added to the photo panel. They deserve to be there. 77.77.248.195 (talk) 16:17, 6 September 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.77.248.195 (talk) 16:15, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Deleting informations

Franek K., what's your intention to delete informations? "Too detailed data" is not a reason to revert.--92.224.147.19 (talk) 17:46, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

No, your new changes are reverted because:

1. other population groups also have mixed nationalities (Polish-German, Czech-German, Polish-Belarusians etc), why only two ethnic minorities in Poland and Czech: Silesians and Kashubians have detailed descriptions? This is POV.
2. we well know that you want to lessen the number of Silesians and Kashubs in Poland according to Polish saying "Poland only for Poles" ("Polska tylko dla Polaków") and Silesians and Kashubians are Poles. Yes, million Silesians and Kashubians who consider themselves a nationality have a collective hallucination ;) Sorry but Polish nationalism and nazism not be tolerated in Misplaced Pages.
3. you change delete source by The Institute for European Studies, Ethnological Institute of UW about numbers of Silesians and Kashubians in Poland. you do not have permission to remove sources.
4. your change is too detailed data to infobox, this is infobox to simple data, not detailed. You break standards of Misplaced Pages. Detailed data there is separate articles, these are not delete from Misplaced Pages.

Your changes break three core rules of Misplaced Pages and some other. Franek K. (talk) 18:19, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately you're wrong. 1. If there are informations about other groups, you are free to add them. I added this informations about Moravians, Kashubians and Silesians, because this informations exist. 2. I don't know what you want to say about it. I want to add the right informations and don't want to make a group smaller or greater like you do. And I am not even Polish or Czech or something. If you want to know, I am German. 3. This is not a reliable source. There is no information where they did get that numbers. It seems to be a wild guess before there was any census before. So, the census from the EU in 2011 are sources are the best sources which can be added together (from Czech Republic, Poland and Slovakia). 4. The details were in the section Notes at the end of this article and not in the infobox.--92.224.147.19 (talk) 18:58, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately you're wrong. "If there are informations about other groups"? No, this article is not about the very details, numbers of Silesians-Polish, Polish-German, Czech-German, Polish-Belarusians etc. This information is nonsense in this article, this is not place for these informations. Besides, do not pretend that you have only census data for Silesians or Kashubians, these same source (census) show data about other groups, for example Polish-German, Polish-Belarusians etc, so please do not cheat. Third case: Poles, German, Czech (Bohemian) - no difference for this case, these three nations occupied these areas for centuries, so your opinions are not neutral. Franek K. (talk) 19:15, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Are you serious? This is an encyclopedia. All informations can be added which are available. Especially if this is just a note at the end. You're right about Poles, Czechs and Slovaks. I added this informations and corrected the exorbitant numbers to this groups.--92.224.147.19 (talk) 20:41, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I'm very serious. Yes, this is an encyclopedia but this is article about Slavs, not about result of censuses about relation Silesians-Poles or Poles-Belarusians. This is not place for these informations. Secondly: not all Silesians who lives in Germany are Germans, why you falsify the number of Silesians? >800,000 is number only for Silesian nationality in Poland and Czech Republic, only nationality, not all Slavic Silesians. Franek K. (talk) 21:08, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

The most people coming from Silesia to Germany were Aussiedler. They were and are Germans. Maybe there were some vanishingly low of Slavic immigrants, too. But it doesn't matter as far as there aren't any sources about such a supposition.--92.230.251.197 (talk) 10:50, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

1. One source show 847,000 (published in 2013), other source show 817,000 (published in 2011), both by stat.gov.pl. In Czech Republic - 21,556, so total number of Silesian nationality is 868,556 or 838,556.
2. About German Silesians - this is your opinion. Please give sources showing that Silesians living in Germany are Germans and not Slavs. This is your OR. Knowledge of the German language has nothing to do with ethnic things.
3. your changes are reverted because must to be consensus. You delete sources with the exception of censuses, for this must to be consensus. Necessarily.

Franek K. (talk) 14:43, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

please give sources show Silesians

• All unassessed articles
• C-Class Ethnic groups articles
• Top-importance Ethnic groups articles
• WikiProject Ethnic groups articles
• C-Class Yugoslavia articles
• High-importance Yugoslavia articles
• WikiProject Yugoslavia articles
• C-Class Belarus articles
• High-importance Belarus articles
• C-Class Bosnia and Herzegovina articles
• High-importance Bosnia and Herzegovina articles
• All WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina pages
• C-Class Bulgaria articles
• High-importance Bulgaria articles
• WikiProject Bulgaria articles
• C-Class Croatia articles
• High-importance Croatia articles
• All WikiProject Croatia pages
• C-Class Czech Republic articles
• High-importance Czech Republic articles
• All WikiProject Czech Republic pages
• C-Class North Macedonia articles
• High-importance North Macedonia articles
• WikiProject North Macedonia articles
• C-Class Montenegro articles
• High-importance Montenegro articles
• C-Class Poland articles
• High-importance Poland articles
• WikiProject Poland articles
• C-Class Russia articles
• Top-importance Russia articles
• Top-importance C-Class Russia articles
• C-Class Russia (history) articles
• History of Russia task force articles
• C-Class Russia (demographics and ethnography) articles
• Demographics and ethnography of Russia task force articles
• WikiProject Russia articles
• C-Class Serbia articles
• High-importance Serbia articles
• WikiProject Serbia articles
• C-Class Slovakia articles
• High-importance Slovakia articles
• All WikiProject Slovakia pages
• C-Class Slovenia articles
• High-importance Slovenia articles
• All WikiProject Slovenia pages
• C-Class Ukraine articles
• High-importance Ukraine articles
• WikiProject Ukraine articles