Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 19:45, 10 July 2006

Template:WikiProject Politics of IndiaI removed the following from the article because it seems very POV to me:

Shiv Sena members have supported the massacre of Christians, Jews, Muslims, homosexuals, moderate Hindus, and Dravidians

It was added by User:jj frap, who has a history of POV disputes. --Whosyourjudas (talk) 00:16, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Libel and Slander

Libel and slander against a vital political party in India gets editors banned here. I have removed all the nonsense in the article. It was highly pejorative of Marathas and can be construed as racist and ethnocentric. Please refrain from using wikipedia as a sandbox for expressing anti-maratha and anti-Hindu hatred. Calling them 'terrorists' and such is uncalled for, since no indictments or formal charges have been made against them. Violence against Jews? Was that for effect of false accusations of anti-semitism? Please, Shiv Sena is an open supporter of Israel and Thackeray an avid admirer of Zionism. Again, baseless accusations without proof from a nutjob leftist with a typical low-class education.(Pusyamitra Sunga 14:10, 10 July 2006 (UTC))

Name of the party

I know that the name originally refers to Chhatrapati Shivaji, but from what I've understood is that SS has started implying that their name refers to the deity Shiva when they've started to start branches in other Indian states. --Soman 18:34, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Criminal Activites and Accusations

Shiv Sena is an Indian political party operating in a democratic country where the media and judiciary are vibrant. Accusations put up by a French source should not be featured in the main article let alone a reference link put up. If what has been said is true then the SS party leader would have been behind bars. This is as far away from a NPOV that we can get. The slant of the article is completely negative to the said political party and hence cannot be said to be NPOV. For instance, the article needs balance and does not present the Shiv Sena thinking behind any of its actions.

Soman's edits

The user Soman is hell bent on adding what is written in LMD. Mere accusations should not be taken as proof. The SS chief is routinely accused of such activities but then so are ALL the politicians in India. I suggest you remove POV even if it is LMD's pov and not your own. and please discuss before writing such imp things in the article

??? But they are not presented as proofs, are they? What is presented is criticism, and the source of criticism is clearly provided. If you can provide text material that provides another viewpoint, it can also be referred to. However, there is a differntiation betwen if an opinion is published in a major reputed international journal or on an individual fringy blog somewhere.

Also, when Thackerey brought Arun Gawli to the dais of their rallies, how do you from your personal pov analyze that? I have little faith in Indian politicians in general, but Thackerey's record cannot just be whitewashed with reference to the general political culture. --Soman, the left-centric hell-bender 12:03, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Very nice soman but its better if you ref the LMD article as an external link, LMD or Times doesnt constitute fact, in a section titled criminal activities you mention facts and convictions not opinions however "reputed" the journal. You can simply state Arun gawli was present on the stage with him in a rally and give the reference where it is stated, but you can blindly say the things you have said, it has been said that CPI(m) was involved in the kerala sex-scandal cover-up, and in a journal too but I dont see you adding that to the wiki as a fact......

I understand your point, LMD ref can stay there ,but 'Committee for the Protection of Democratic Rights' ??? how fringe is that, thats pure POV and you cannot deny that. The other refs were also vague it was said in 1998 by whom where, and what article were you ref to? Think carefully, dont push an agenda.

-The commie-pseudo-intellect seeker

First of all: Sign your posts. Secondly: I think that accusations, if properly referenced may be included in wikiarticles. Of course a great deal of caution is to be applied in this. Accusations mentioned in articles has to be significant for the party as an organization (and not just of individual members) and the inside the article the accusations has to be balanced to the rest of the content. For example, it would be both irrelevant and practically impossible to list every single Congress politician ever accused of corruption. However, it would be bizarre to leave out the Bofors scandal when talking about Congress or Rajiv Gandhi.

Now when it comes to SS it is highly relevant to mention the links to the underworld and the tendency of the party to engage in muscle-power politics. That doesn't make other politicians saints, but certainly Thackerey's leadership is markably different than that of mainstream politicians in India. SS once started its political activity by murders and fomenting communalism. Also concerning SS, its clear that criminal activities are not just coincidental or individual behaviour, its part and parcel of party strategy of constantly seeking confrontations. --Soman 07:33, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Agreed you cant leave out imp details like bofors or muscle power, but be accurate and reliable, mention SS demanded south indians out of maharashtra, mention the board blackening incidents,even fire or valentine incidents are fine...but 'Committee for the Protection of Democratic Rights accusations are hardly npov, give ref to the Samana articles urging such articles but the things you mentioned were pure "mirch masala". I hope you understand what I am trying to say.... and what signature?

While ome member of the shiv Sena can be a bit overzealous, why does this article focus exclusively on their flaws and none on their achievements as a legitimate political party. I'm sorry, but this article reeks of Islamist propaganda and anti-Hindu hatred. It still is POV.User:Subhash Bose

Template:Election box metadata

"The power of the Sena has come from its ability to create terror most of the times for the good and sometimes for the bad."

This sentence sucks. Even more so since all the examples that follow it are of the "bad" nature.

...In fact that whole section sucks.

Someone(preferably with a better grasp of the English language) really should rewrite this article.

Sources on "Statue desecration" riots

Makes very pretty pictures of Congress party's hypocrisy: Violent reaction towards Muslims protesting in Bhiwandi by even firing leading to two deaths; kid gloves for Shiv Sena terrorist attacking properties and lives! "Incestous bedfellows" leaps to the mind!

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41866000/jpg/_41866578_shivafp2_203.jpg http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5163288.stm http://www.tribuneindia.com/2006/20060710/nat1.jpg http://www.tribuneindia.com/2006/20060710/main2.htm http://www.mumbaimirror.com/nmirror/Mirror/2006/7/10/2/7920062313931279200622587203/images/imgn1city_09.jpg http://www.mumbaimirror.com/nmirror/mmpaper.asp?sectid=2&articleid=7920062313931279200622587203# http://www.zeenews.com/articles.asp?aid=307745&sid=REG&ssid= http://www.cybernoon.com/DisplayArticle.asp?section=fromthepress&subsection=inbombay&xfile=July2006_inbombay_standard10184 http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1722155.cms http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=133400 http://www.ndtv.com/homepage/gallery.asp?imgid=316&img=1 http://www.ndtv.com/images/APphotogallery/mumbairiots/1.jpg http://www.ndtv.com/images/APphotogallery/mumbairiots/2.jpg http://www.ndtv.com/images/APphotogallery/mumbairiots/3.jpg http://www.ndtv.com/images/APphotogallery/mumbairiots/4.jpg http://www.ndtv.com/images/APphotogallery/mumbairiots/5.jpg http://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_disp.asp?n_id=23830&n_tit=Mumbai%3A%20Defaced%20Statue%20of%20Thackeray's%20Wife%20Creates%20Tension

WikiSceptic 17:10, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. I'm glad to see that some Congress members have brains. The Shic Sainiks had every right to protest the desecration of an important symbol of their party. I find it amusing that you attack them for this minor spat, yet I'm sure you rooted for the muslims when they rioted worldwide over the Jylliands-Posden (prob'ly wrong spelling) cartoons of Mohamed. (Pusyamitra Sunga 17:31, 10 July 2006 (UTC))

Debate over Shiv Sena Article

All right. Now that the article has been protected. I am prepared to debate with anyone who wants to do so about Shiv Sena. I challenge WikiSceptic , Anwar_saadat or anyone to engage me in civilized debate over this decisive organization, although I am highly skeptical this will happen. There is only so much anti-India and anti-Hindu hatred that I can take.(Pusyamitra Sunga 17:31, 10 July 2006 (UTC))

Who is this fanatic

This article is definitely very pro-ShivSena. Why are fanatics editing this article? Misplaced Pages is not a repository for party progpoganda. Shiv Sainiks, leave Misplaced Pages alone!

--Wikindian 19:44, 10 July 2006 (UTC)