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Religious Beliefs

I was quite sickened by the chapter regarding Hitler's 'relgious beliefs'. The entire slant of the chapter amounts to, "Well, you see, because Hitler came from a Catholic upbringing it's the Catholics and their faith who are actually to blame for the Holocaust". There's no way around it - these various edits have been used in this section to portray Hitler's evils as the collective responsibility of christianity. Whereas of course the truth about the Bible is that all of the massacring takes place in the Old Testament and not the New Testament.

Adolf Hitler viewed the Christian faith only in political terms. Where it suited him to 'play christian' he would do so for a few extra votes or the confidence of the people. Next on the list after the murder of the jews were the clergy and lay faithful (as evidenced by the actions of the German army in Poland and all over Europe...even within Germany itself). There are no winners in this pathetic game of 'My God is bigger than your God' and I hope the players in it realise how malicious their actions appear. Heinrich Himmler once made a long reference to the intense rigour of the Jesuit Order and mentioned how he had based the hierarchy of the SS on the Jesuit example. I suppose this means that the Jesuits are all murderers too?!

Such puerile foolishness.

Grow up. Christianity didn't create the Holocaust. Nazism did. If you want to write a nice big long article about anti-semitism then I'm sure there is one you could add to elsewhere instead of trying to cunningly portray Adolf Hitler as having been influenced by his mother's faith in order to murder millions of innocent people. --Iamlondon 03:49, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

• "Adolf Hitler was brought up as a Roman Catholic by his Roman Catholic parents." Seems kind of redundant. ReverendG 16:17, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• Or perhaps the editor wasn't being specific enough? "Adolf Hitler was brought up as a Roman Catholic by his Roman Catholic parents who were Romish Papist Popish Romanist Papalists" ;) .

--GuyIncognito 07:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Good heavens, so to speak. I read this article and didn't see any indication that Catholicism was the root evil behind the Holocaust. As for "...brought up as a Roman Catholic by his Roman Catholic parents" being redundant, it's possible that his parents could have had different faiths, or that he was brought up by someone other than his parents, or the Catholic aspect of his upbringing could have been at the hand of another relative or family friend.

You have to understand that Catholics are on the defensive since it was announced that Pope Benedict was in the Hitler youth. The same thing applies for rumours that Hitler had a "thing" about the Jews since a Jewish doctor allegedly failed to treat his sick mother, who Hitler was very fond of.

I found that the religious section was fair. It accounted for all sides. The fact that his parent were catholic... is a fact. When we complain, we give examples, otherwise you look stupid lamlondonSomerset219 23:50, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Religious Beliefs, 'Part: The Second'

I've re-enterred the quote which was rudely removed by one of the contributors. If you wish to blank out the fact that Hitler's anti-semitism had nothing to do with his reiligious upbringing then I'll carry on pasting that quote back in each time. It's a deplorable abuse of Misplaced Pages to arrogantly remove material on no other grounds than that it doesn't fit the thesis of the 'editor'. I could make a pretty accurate guess as to the general demographic of the person who keeps removing this.

Ironically, if you want to whitewash the truth and skew history perhaps you might join the Nazi Party - they were quite good at lies and propaganda, you know. --Iamlondon 14:23, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Steigmann-Gall is an author cited in this controversy several times. He's also cited here, regarding Luther. Is he a serious source, or a journo?--Shtove 21:30, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Steigman-Gall is a serious source, an expert in the field. As a historian his studies into this period and of Hitler are highly respected by all. The passage above I removed as very poorly written, barely clear, and the points it tries to make are illogical. It does not follow from the quote the statments it makes, which amount to original research. Is there any serious claim that even in the first place that Hitler's youth was imbued with anti-Semitism? No. The influce comes during his adult hood with the influence of the Christian Social Party, Martin Luther, and other anti-semitic influences. The quote about the terror that Hitler recognized Christianity used is an observation that such terror is needed to forcefully reshape society, which he intended to do as well, in admiration of the early Catholic institutions. Ofcourse this is my own interpretation and unless I cite a reputable scholar who gives this opinion (even though its not relevant to Hitlers religious beliefs) would be original research to. But to jump into speculation about how this means Hitler planed to destroy Christainity is a great leap of logic, original research, use of weasle words, creates a straw-man, and is a non-sequitur to boot. That is why I removed it. Giovanni33 02:04, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Gio,

if you followed the reasons which you gave for removing London's addition consistently you would also have to delete your own Mein Kampf additions from the section. They are at least as "poorly written", "barely clear" and "illogical" in their introductions and selective in their presentation.

London's edits are no improvement to the section stylistically, but your removal of them is merely an instance of POV pushing. It contradicts your biases, so throw it out.

Str1977 15:01, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Why is the picture of Eva Braun named Eva Brown??

Atheists DESPERATE to cover up their sick history

They know FULL WELL they have NO sources pertaining to Hitler being a Christian other than public speeches or speeches to party officials. They are DESPERATE to cover up this part of their SICK history. Wetman has been hating christians for a hell of a long time on here. Mobilize the entire Atheists armed forces and see if we won't stop it here an now you fucking bastards! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.138.0.221 (talk • contribs)

FUCK YOU! You fucking Christians piss me off, I despise each and every one of you fucking christians and as an Atheist I am honour bound by my Atheistic faith to kill Theists in cold blood, I am an Atheist murderer and proud of it.

To what extent can Mein Kampf be considered a good source for Hitler's real views?

I mean, if anyone has ever read mein kampf, it's basically populist rhetoric and lies about his WW1 period. Is it really a good source from which to derive what Hitler believed in? It was always intended to be published by the way, Hitler isn't exactly going to say to a largely christian german public 'by the way I'm an atheist'.

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