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	Circumcision has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones Date Process Result February 3, 2013 Peer review Reviewed February 12, 2013 Good article nominee Listed
Current status: Good article

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This article has been mentioned by a media organization: "Topics that spark Misplaced Pages 'edit wars' revealed". BBC News. 18 July 2013. Retrieved 18 July 2013.

Ideal sources for Misplaced Pages's health content are defined in the guideline Misplaced Pages:Identifying reliable sources (medicine) and are typically review articles. Here are links to possibly useful sources of information about Circumcision. PubMed provides review articles from the past five years (limit to free review articles) The TRIP database provides clinical publications about evidence-based medicine. Other potential sources include: Centre for Reviews and Dissemination and CDC

view · edit Frequently asked questions Page name Editors sometimes propose that the page should be renamed to male circumcision, male genital mutilation, or male genital cutting. Consensus has rejected these proposals, because they are used in only a small minority of reliable sources. Most reliable sources refer to circumcision as "circumcision"; thus, in accordance with WP:TITLE, Misplaced Pages does the same.

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Archive guide Sample PubMed

This page has archives. Sections older than 10 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 3 sections are present.

Should Have Section Detailing Possible Effects on Function and Sexual Function

Hi. I think that we should have a sections of this page detailing possible effects that this surgery could have on function and sexual function. This is because the penis is both an organ and is also used during sex. I think that this should be agreeable since with any surgery there are possible affects on the function of the organ operated on. With new research coming out from Sorrels, Morris in the British Journal of Urology and Frisch Morten and Linholm Morton in the International Journal of Epimiology indicating that this procedure may remove the most sensitive parts of the penis, well as make sex more painful and less pleasureful for women, I believe that evidence exists indicating that this could negatively affect pleasure and function. JohnPRsrcher (talk) 20:44, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

There's already a summary of the secondary sourcing regarding this topic in the article. The existing content is well-supported with many (I believe we're up to 6 now) WP:MEDRS-compliant secondary sources. All I am aware of from Sorrels and Morten are individual primary studies, and they've already been discussed. Per WP:MEDREV we do not use individual primary studies to counter multiple sources. What are the PMIDs of the sources you're mentioning, and which Morris are you talking about? Zad68 20:58, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

These aren't from PubMed they're from the British Journal of Urology, which has done much research over the past years regarding circumcision and its effects on function. Its Sorrells L. Morris . The article is fine touch pressure thresholds in the adult penis.

Also there is another article in the BJU on its affect on sexual function indicating that it is negative. See The Effect of Male circumcision on sexuality. Also see Male circumcision decreases penile sensitivity as measured in a large cohort. And see the article the Prepuce in the BJU that details its roles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnPRsrcher (talk • contribs)

You mean Morris Sorrells? That is not "new research", that is a 1997 primary study that is already taken into account by the secondary sources. Please look at WP:MEDRS for Misplaced Pages's sourcing standards for medical content, and WP:MEDREV which covers particular situation. Zad68 02:53, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

That is not my only source. That was only an example. I believe that adverse effects is not the proper term for a sub-section, as this procedure is a bodily modification that lasts a lifetime. Since this surgery is also a type of body modification, we should have an effects on function section. In addition, there should be an effect on sexuality section, as the penis is both an organ that is used for sex and is used for other bodily tasks.

JohnPRsrcher (talk) 20:27, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Those are all good points JohnPR. Both the content and "gerrymandered" layout of this article have been odiously and glaringly defective for a long time now. Some editors work hard to maintain this sorry state of affairs. Some do so by simply reverting any addition to the article that is not positive to Circumcision. Others feign interest in improving the article and then raise objections to proposed content on spurious grounds- by misrepresenting WP policy, or objecting to content which is younger than currently used pro-circumcision references as "too old". They baulk at other references as being "not medical enough" despite Circumcision being largely a cultural act.Abstracts and articles are selectively quoted omitting negatives and cautions. Conversly many references have been provided for the long acknowledged deadening effect of circumcision on penile sensitivity beginning with Maimonides who stated

"the main purpose of the act is to repress sexual pleasure, with the strongest reason being that it is difficult for a woman to separate from an uncircumcised man with whom she has had sex"

Other research has looked at diminished pleasure for women from the loss of the sliding action that a foreskin provides and for other reasons. There appears to be little chance of this group of editors permitting any mention of these in the english language WP at any rate at present. The German and French language WP articles on Circumcision are better at the wider picture. You might like to check them out -I think that there is a translator facility attached to them. The Effects section and Adverse Effects sections here in USA WP Circumcision article are particularly hilarious results of this agenda over time. While the embargo on change in this article has lasted for many years I think it is still important to draw attention to it on this page for many reasons, even if only for future editors and anthropologists !.--— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht /_Stalk 07:36, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Would you please respect Misplaced Pages's Talk page guidelines? Your comment in large part is talking about editors and not content. The Talk page guidelines say:

Comment on content, not on the contributor: Keep the discussions focused upon the topic of the talk page, rather than on the personalities of the editors contributing to the talk page.

(emphasis in original) Would you please be so kind as to stop using this article Talk page to make comments about editors.

Regarding the content, are you suggesting that we use a 12th-Century philosopher's findings on this subject over up-to-date WP:MEDRS-compliant sources based on modern large, multi-center RCTs? Please clarify your position regarding the sourcing here. Zad68 02:26, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Should Have Section on Pain

I think that this article should have a section describing the pain experienced by infants or persons undergoing this procedure. According to a recent review of the pain relief of circumcision from the cochraine organization, as well as any observer of the procedure, this procedure is painful as noted by loud crying, distorted facial expressions, and intense shaking or vibrating. I think that since we are describing a surgery we should have a section detailing the pain persons may go through as a side effect of this surgery. JohnPRsrcher (talk) 20:53, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

There is already a section on Pain management in the article. I reviewed the Cochrane database publications on this topic published in the last 5 years, which are you talking about exactly? Do you mean Cyna and Middleton, or Kassab et al.? Zad68 21:04, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

It is Brady-Fryer B, Wiebe N, Lander JA. Try going to BJU. This clearly states that it is painful regardless of intervention as indicated by facial expressions, salivation, loud crying, and many other factors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnPRsrcher (talk • contribs)

From 2004? I thought you said "recent review"? The article already states that the procedure causes pain, using more up-to-date sourcing, I don't see what the advantage is in using a 10-year-old review. Zad68 02:53, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

I agree with this proposal that there should be a separate and better section on pain. It should have sub sections on pain in infant, adolescent, adult and in forced and bush ciccumcisions. These should include information on pain during the act, in the recovery period, and the long term pain effects from loss of tissue, scarring, impaired penis function, and pain for penetrative sexual partners of the circumcised.--— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht /_Stalk 07:56, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

I don't see support for this in the sourcing. What sourcing are you referring to? For ease of reference provide PMIDs for medical sources. Zad68 02:26, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Summary Does not Properly Represent Circumcision, Please do not automatically delete edits

Saying that the foreskin is taken off after being inspected is not true. According to research it must be broken from the glans first and then cut off. This is not too descriptive as people reading the page should be able to know what a circumcision is.

In addition, saying that circumcision is non-painful in opening paragraph is not correct. It is painful as indicated by many different factors (loud crying for one.) This should not be looked over. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnPRsrcher (talk • contribs)

The article does state "separated from the glans", maybe you missed that. The article already summarizes the technique as detailed in a specialized surgical guide and a major technical report from the AAP both from 2012. According to the sourcing, many procedures are performed with a device that clamps the skin and causes separation, so specifying "a cut is made" doesn't cover the range of techniques adequately. Also please review WP:MEDDATE, we use up-to-date sources where available. Zad68 02:53, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Those who presently maintain this article in its present bizarrely unbalanced state are generally at pains to select the most convoluted euphemisms for "cut off' of the foreskin, breaking the adhesions to the penis head, and cutting off of the frenula.Words such as "open" and 'remove" are chosen instead They also selectively quote from article abstracts, and give undue emphasis to any article content, even when unmentioned in the abstract, if it has anything positive to say about circumcision. Consequently many aspects of Circumcision such as forced circumcision, the sale of circumcised foreskins, bush fatalities from circumcision, gender re-asssignment due to botched circumcisions, and fatal diseases transmitted in New York, Israel and and Austria from religious circumcisions of infants continue to go unmentioned here as well as the omissions you attempted to correct.We must investigate the mechanisms that WP has in place to try to curb this sort of hijacking of an important article on this form of cultural body modification. --— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht /_Stalk 17:18, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Agree with Zad68. We should be using non technical terms, especially for the lead, and using up to date sources. Yobol (talk) 19:27, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes this is true. I think that we agree that these words open and remove are biased and unrealistic when it comes to talking about this procedure. Rather, we should use words that properly represent the procedure, which involves the tearing of two structures as well as a cut of an organ.

JohnPRsrcher (talk) 19:21, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

See Yobol's comment on this above, also please review WP:MEDMOS, we write for the general reader. Zad68 20:55, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Should have a section on Effects on Function and Effects on Sexuality because Circumcision is both a Surgery and Body Modification

Circumcision is both a surgery and body modification, and professionals in the medical field have not come to consensus about whether it is medically necessary or not. Because it permanently alters ones body, and since we are unsure about whether it is medically important or not, I advocate that we add two sections titled "effects on function" and "effects on sexuality." The reasoning behind the naming of the functions is that the penis is a body part that provides a bodily role and a sexual role. For this reason we should divide its functions into its general functions, and those dependent on the act of intercourse. I believe that just one section titled "adverse effects" does not properly represent the effects of this procedure. This only applies to effects in the short term. Since this procedure is in the long term, additional sections are needed.

JohnPRsrcher (talk) 20:32, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

I do not see support for this suggestion in the sourcing. Zad68 20:53, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Proposed Expansion of Summary Paragraph 2

In paragraph 2 of the summary it is listed that ethical concerns have been raised over circumcision. I believe that we should expand this point. Recently, two large political decisions have been made that have caused widespread controversy over circumcision. One of these is the 2012 ruling by the German district court of Cologne that circumcision is an offense that can be prosecuted. The other is the 2013 resolution by the Parliamentary Assembly Council of Europe that determined that male circumcision is a violation of the physical integrity of a child, and asked states to adopt legal provisions to ensure that these practices are not carried out until the children are old enough to be consulted.

I think the best way to represent this is to either expand it in the summary or add another subsection titled circumcision and the law. Or circumcision and controversy.

JohnPRsrcher (talk) 20:58, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Both of these have been discussed here before. Neither of them panned out as particularly impactful: the Cologne ruling ended up with Germany voting overwhelmingly to make non-medical neonatal circumcision explicitly legal, under certain conditions; PACE is an advisory body only and its recommendations were never acted on, and checking the news archives I don't see any significant follow up since then. Regardless, these topics are already covered at Circumcision and law.

John could I ask you please: Before making more suggestions please do review the archives, just about every one of the suggestions you've brought up has already been discussed thoroughly, probably several times. Zad68 21:16, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Agree, with Zad68's comments above, and note that we should not give WP:UNDUE weight to recent political decisions just because they are recent. Yobol (talk) 05:15, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

JohnPR - Do not be intimidated by suggestions that any aspect of Circumcision has been "discussed thoroughly" What this can mean is simply that someone previously was fobbed off from making a useful change to this very poor article. Ditto for misreferencing WP policy - for example the UNDUE reference above addresses not whether one mentions an aspect of a subject but what weight one gives to it in proportion to others. Caveat Scriptor !--— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht /_Stalk 08:02, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Would you please respect Misplaced Pages's Talk page guidelines? A new editor shouldn't dismiss the archives. In fact, the Talk page guidelines say:

Read the archives: If you are a new editor to an article, be sure to read the archives. Not only are content disputes valuable examples of talk page behavior, but they contain a lot of expert knowledge surrounding the topic. You may quickly find your questions and/or objections have already been answered if you try searching all the archives for that article at once using the prefix parameter.

(emphasis in original) Zad68 02:26, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

--— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht /_Stalk 11:40, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

I hope Zad that you are not suggesting that new editors dismiss the archives.Amongst their many useful functions they record patterns of some group, individual and cabal behaviour.--— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht /_Stalk 11:40, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

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