Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 15:39, 4 December 2014

Handy Hint

handy hint: to keep discussions in one place, if you leave a talk message I'll answer it here, though I may put a note on your page if getting your attention seems important. However, if I leave a talk message on your page, and you respond here, I will respond on your page for consistency. Apologies if I fail to notice changes on your page, must trim my watchlist.

Archives

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"The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars"

Hi Dave, I thought you did a nice job on adding reviews to Mann's book. Best, Pete Tillman (talk) 01:54, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Re Darwin plaque

Hi Dave. Your memory is excellent. The plaque is indeed on the rear wall of the National Museum of Scotland extension. This is about 20 or 30 yards west of the south-west corner of Old College. As the page already showed an image of Old College, completed (minus dome) in the year Darwin left, I thought it more appropriate to caption the plaque pic with a reference to its proximity to the University rather than mention the National Museum building. This, you probably know, occupies the site of the old college buildings before Old College was built. I've amended the Commons caption to make the location clearer. Kim Traynor | Talk 14:31, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Ha, didn't know that: for some reason I thought it was more from Adam House down to the Cowgate. Looking at a 1765 map, the college seems to have then occupied most of the Old College site, extending to Potterrow, with the site west of that, now occupied by the Chambers Street museum, the location of the Trades Hospital and Argyle Square. The site of Lothian Street was then the grounds of a large house, as is the case in 1780, but in the left side of Kirkwood & Son's 1817 map Lothian Street has been built, and street numbers are shown suggesting that no. 1 was nearest the college. From the position numbered 15 it seems from File:Royal Museum rear.JPG that the plaque is further east than the lodging house, but evidently they wanted it above the doorway of the (1950s?) extension, and it's not far out. All very interesting, thanks for bringing this up. . dave souza, talk 18:20, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

You're right. My description of the location of the old college buildings was far too sloppy. They terminated where the rear, i.e. west range of Old College now stands, and the Potterrow Port stood half way down West College Street where the Venetian-style footbridge crosses between Old College and the old Royal Museum building. Lothian Street was created as a direct route to Teviot Place to avoid the kink in the old town wall that turned northwards from South College Street and then westwards to the Bristo Port. I have an artist's view of the south-west corner of the old college buildings and South College Street as seen from Lothian Street, but can't upload it for you to see here because of copyright. Incidentally, it seems Thomas de Quincy also lodged in Lothian Street in the 1820s. The reason you probably thought the old college lay between Adam House and the Cowgate was the (now not so visible) presence of College Wynd which runs downhill just west of Adam House. It was so named because it was the main approach from the town to the college. Move your cursor over this image. Kim Traynor | Talk 00:09, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Many thanks, didn't know about the cursor trick. This has taught me a lot about old Edinburgh! . . dave souza, talk 16:35, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Scots Language Discussion

Dear Dave

I'm afraid our colleague Mutt Lunker gets so upset at any informamtion that contradicts his views that he automatically deletes anything I post on Wikipdia regarding the Scots Language. Neverthless you might like to read the following comment I made following your last post. Best wishes Cassandra.

"Following such examples, many well-off Scots took to learning English through the activities of those such as Thomas Sheridan, who in 1761 gave a series of lectures on English elocution. Charging a guinea at a time (about £100 in today's money,) they were attended by over 300 men, and he was made a freeman of the City of Edinburgh. Following this, some of the city's intellectuals formed the Select Society for Promoting the Reading and Speaking of the English Language in Scotland." − − 'Learning English' is misleading. It should correctly read 'learning standard English' or 'improving their English'. By the 1760s English had already been the vernacular language of lowland Scotland for a thousand years (albeit sometimes called 'Scots'). What was new, or relatively new (and to all of Britain, not just to Scotland), was the emergence of a standard form of English based upon the upper class Oxford/Cambridge/London nexus. − − By the 1760s anyone anywhere in Britain with an interest in self improvement wanted to speak and write in what they had begun to think of (incorrectly) as 'proper' or 'pure' English. In Scotland, as the following quote from Edinburgh's Select Society makes clear, there is no suggestion that they were proposing to teach a different language, just a 'pure' version of their own long-existing one. The idea that 'Scots' was ever thought of as a different language from English is wholly a product of 19th and, mostly, 20th century writers. Cassandra. − − Extracted from: THE LITERARY CLUBS AND SOCIETIES OF EIGHTEENTH CENTURY SCOTLAND.P.172 ,D. D. McElroy (available on-line) − − "In other countries, great and beneficiall effects have flowed from − the regular study of their own languages, and the art of public − speaking - under diligent and well-instructed masters. And in − proportion as the dialect of any province is corrupt or barbarous − the necessity of studying-purity in speech increases. − Even persons well advanced in life may be taught by skillful instructors, − to avoid many gross improprieties, in quantity, accent − the manner of sounding the vowels etc. which, at present, render − the Scotch dialect so offensive." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.5.13.238 (talk) 18:57, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Because I placed a watch on your page, Dave, to pick up any further comments on the Darwin plaque, I've been sent an automatic alert after someone posted the above comment. I can't tell who did, but the passage is well written and looks like it could be a valuable contribution to whichever page it was written for. It's good information and odd that it should be rejected unless a good reason was given. (I would, however, tweak it in a couple of places for even greater accuracy. For example, I'd take the bracketed "incorrectly" out of the third paragraph, as that reveals the contributor's POV, whereas the historical subjects held a genuine perception that there was a "proper English" to which they aspired.) Kim Traynor | Talk 20:28, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Kim, this relates to Talk:Scots language#Adam Smith's accent. Since the IP's comment there was deleted with an allegation of "multi-article POV-PUSH IP-sock" I'd be very cautious about accepting the suggested wording, but there may be some substance in the need for improvement to the article. I don't have access to good sources on this issue, but if you're interested it would be appreciated if you could look the article over and see what you think. Thanks, . dave souza, talk 21:06, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Hello Dave, and Kim, an extract of a discussion I had with another user last week regarding the previous target for this user, Talk:List of monarchs of Northumbria, may be helpful: "Cassandra...is an IP-hopping sockpuppet who has sustained a campaign of forum posting on the talk pages of a large variety of articles. These posts push POVs which are not necessarily evident to anyone unfamiliar with their long history. I and some other users have tried engaging with them over a long course of time to ask them to stop their activities, with great difficulty as they constantly hop IPs, but to no avail. It's also difficult to enact sanctions on them because of their IP-hopping. If you're interested, a summary of their latest activities and the difficulty in countering them is here and there are several links therein which expand on the history. The talk page of Scottish Gaelic is under semi-protection due to their continued posting there. I could give you chapter and verse on the full two years. The use of the terms "Scot-land" and "Eng-land" in this particular post are a common handle for their POV (I'd have difficulty outlinining what exactly they may mean by it though) and the real reason for the post, rather than a genuine concern for the article, which they could easily have amended themself. In the last few weeks I have given up trying to engage but, per advice, am largely simply following a pattern of "revert, ignore" if the post is POV-pushing. I hope that explains my removal of the post..."

If you re-read Cassandra's post, characteristically it doesn't actually address the existing thread's discussion: whether Smith "cooperated in preserving the Scottish language" per one source or whether he "went to great lengths to get rid of ilka Scotticism" per the other. As with the majority of Cassandra's posts, they are actually coatracking re their pet theses instead, a strand of which here is "The idea that 'Scots' was ever thought of as a different language from English" etc. (by extrapolation on to the current status of the relationship between the languages/dialects). I pass no comment on this or their other POVs but the continued forum pushing thereof and their almost standard misrepresentation and synthesis of sources (for an early illustration, see this ANI discussion).

Sorry for the long post but I hope this clarifies what may have appeared to be a harsh reversion. Mutt Lunker (talk) 23:42, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification, apart from anything else I wondered if the IP's wording was in part a copyvio. Apologies that this developed into a discussion here before I could archive it, but if it brings new knowledgeable editors to the article then that will be a useful outcome. Clearly we can't take anything the IP puts forward at face value, careful consideration of good quality sources is needed. . dave souza, talk 00:19, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Matt for taking the time and trouble to explain in detail. There is obviously more to this contribution than meets the eye. It explains why I couldn't find the edit and revert when I went to what I thought was the most obvious destination page for the posting (Scottish English). Without yet consulting the links you've provided, the above seems a great length to go to shed light on Adam Smith's accent! I realise from what you say, however, that ulterior motives are at work. Kim Traynor | Talk 00:58, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

The cited source is available here as a low quality pdf, it's a Phd thesis from 1952 so I doubt if it's a RS for Misplaced Pages use. Some interesting stuff on pp. 75–76 and 166–171 but the extended quote from the Scots Magazine from p. 172 on is an attempt to get Sheridan's lectures printed which had a shaky start and seems to have gone defunct within a couple of years. No mention of Adam Smith that I've found. Better RS needed for any addition to Wiki. . dave souza, talk 06:39, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for that direction. Meantime, I've chucked in my tuppence worth in the Adam Smith's accent section on the Scots Language Talkpage. Kim Traynor | Talk 12:00, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

I was sorry to read Mutt Lunker's comments above. He has been pursuing a rather vindictive campaign against me for the last couple of years. I am certainly not the sock puppet that he, and only he, repeatedly claims. Indeed a glance at M Lunker's wikipage will reveal that far worse is alleged against him by others - though not be me: not only sock puppet, but also nazi and nationalist. To which I would sadly add stalking and regular abuse of administrator privileges. The source of that intense hostility is simple: I prefer historical facts and he appears to suffer from an obsessive need to preserve and protect at all costs Wiki's romanticised version of the history of language in Scotland. Having spent more than two years investigating the subject in considerable depth, most importantly always checking original source documents wherever possible, it is very apparent that the Wiki pages are historicaly dubious and are most often drawn from sources with a highly politicised POV. Equally they are remarkable for what they omit. Rather than pushing my own POV however I would simply urge anyone with an interest in the subject to take nothing whatsover on trust and to do some checking for themselves: a most useful jumping off point for serious investigators is James Murray's The Dialect of the Southern Counties of Scotland (1873) available on line. Best wishes, Cassandra — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.12.109.24 (talk) 12:45, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

IP Cassandra: if you want to influence articles, present links to good sources instead of hinting at publication, represent them accurately without the original research you've shown above, and make sure they meet WP:RS which is very doubtful for a 1952 PhD paper. Getting a user account would make your contributions that much more credible, evidently you're not building a good reputation. . dave souza, talk 17:39, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

For info Dave: I am not an admin. I have already explained to Cassandra that userboxes on my page are added or created by me, i.e. the reductio ad hitlerum one and those regarding being called both a nat and a quisling. That I've been called the latter two hopefully indicates I may be getting something right. If Cassandra is not intentionally socking I, not for the first time, invite them to get and stick to a user account and see how long they last. Mutt Lunker (talk) 14:28, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

In this instance I'm somewhat involved so am not acting as an admin, and have neither the expertise nor time to decide if the IP is socking. The advice on getting an account is good, as I've just said above. . dave souza, talk 17:39, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Sure and thanks. Mutt Lunker (talk) 18:09, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

See

- I think the Dawkins article is relevant - being critical surely doesn't matter even in a BLP. Alternatively we can use it as a source and quote some of it. Dougweller (talk) 17:19, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

While agreeing in principle, the stuff about entropy and disorder is something of a misconception. Obviously evolution and thermodynamic entropy are entirely compatible, and McIntosh is wrong, but I don't think this explanation by Dawkins is very good. The most I can see us taking out of it is that Dawkins says McIntosh is out of step with the vast majority of scientists. . . dave souza, talk 17:45, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

That's the essence of it, I agree that the other stuff doesn't belong. Dougweller (talk) 19:02, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough, it's a reasonable source for Dawkin's published opinion, and having looked at the article the "debate" between McIntosh and Dawkins is only sourced to an interviewer blogging about the debate while passing on McIntosh's remarks, and McIntosh's own writing. So at least it's a start to showing how McI's remarks have been received by the mainstream. There's some coverage by the British Centre for Science Education but rather doubt if that's a RS. . dave souza, talk 19:30, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

GW point 24

On the Global Warming talk page you removed an edit, and I don't mind it being removed. Can you let me know if your complaint was that the reference did not show a prior consensus that had been changed, or that you do not want to say that Misplaced Pages's job is to report the consensus, not to guarantee that consensus equals truth. The challenge comes in that the means of establishing consensus is very squishy. For example the consensus can be shown that the 2007 report had universal consensus, and yet the 2007 report supported biofuel. I think it is messy to start to argue that part of the report had consensus and other parts did not. I think it is easier to apply common sense and say that Misplaced Pages reports consensus and not truth, and further we establish what is consensus by a consensus process. It is not controversial that consensus sometimes changes.

Thanks.

Bob the goodwin (talk) 00:18, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi Bob, a few issues here. Firstly, Misplaced Pages reports what the consensus is and gives it due weight, but also reports minority views and how they've been received by the mainstream. No guarantee that consensus equals The Truth for all time.

However, your source for claiming "Scientific consensus is often wrong, for example the 2007 IPCC report that represented the consensus view that Biofuels reduced global warming has now been reversed in the latest IPCC draft" is a news report that "A leaked draft of a UN report condemns the widespread use of biofuels made from crops as a replacement for petrol and diesel. It says that biofuels, rather than combating the effects of global warming, could make them worse." Commentary on a leaked draft is a very weak source for this claim, and use of biofuels is conditional on practical implementation, not simply on scientific consensus: see Issues relating to biofuels. We'd need close examination both of what caveats were shown in AR4, and what's to be shown in AR5 WGIII which still hasn't been issued. Hence my removal summary: speculation on leaked report, doesn't show previous WGII was scientific consensus.

The removal of the remainder was as sources make no mention of "previous consensus", and continental drift isn't plate tectonics: your statement was original research, you need to find a source commenting specifically on the issue of scientific consensus with relevance to scientific opinion on climate change.

Also, odd to add it as a new FAQ: the first two FAQs deal with consensus issues. As it was, I think you were giving undue weight to a shift of opinion on how best to achieve climate change mitigation, which not the same as the basic findings of recent warming as a result of human influence which the first FAQ discusses. . . dave souza, talk 10:20, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I was actually trying to help, and not change the consensus. I was coming from the point of view that Misplaced Pages does not report on the truth, it reports on the consensus. And the value of the FAQ is that it represents the current consensus. I have been researching the fields of controversy, and find this point is often misunderstood. I can find numerous areas in Misplaced Pages where there is factual error, but accurate reporting. This is how Misplaced Pages works, and it is helpful to be explicit in this. The global warming consensus is weakening, but still exists. Therefore there is no reason to report on its weakening. I also have found that going anywhere near any controversy raises peoples suspicion, and this is probably reason to avoid making this change. I agree that citations can be better, and am happy to iterate, but you can see that you have created a double edged sword here, but first saying consensus is defined by Misplaced Pages editors, and then saying I need a secondary source to show a changing consensus. Perhaps I can link to Misplaced Pages where it claims consensus exists/existed. Rarely is consensus 'declared' except in politicized debates.

In summary, I think you would like me to avoid the comments I was suggesting because the harm outweighs the good. (i.e. it actually won't discourage the dissenters, it will encourage them.) Is this correct? Bob the goodwin (talk) 02:51, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Last point first, my feeling is that your points gave unrealistic and undue credence to the idea that the central scientific consensus on global warming has been overturned: your idea that the "global warming consensus is weakening" doesn't look at all true of science. However, in political and social areas the idea of doing anything about it has been effectively contested by contrarians, and it's easy to find instances where reality is denied.

To reiterate, Misplaced Pages gives dues weight to expert consensus. It doesn't necessarily exclude minority or fringe views, but has to put them in the mainstream context, and can't accept unpublished Truth. In a discussion related to global warming, NYB goes some way towards agreeing with you: "Misplaced Pages policy is to report scientific consensus as it exists, rather than what one particular person, however expert he or she may or may not be, has concluded is the truth." Good quality publication is the key. . dave souza, talk 10:39, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks again. I do not think the consensus has been overturned, I think it is alive an well. When I said weakened, I meant in the sense that it has little political traction, and declining public support. If you thought I was advocated the absurd position that the consensus had been overturned, then I will not bother you anymore. I was trying merely making the point that consensus does not equal truth so that truth seekers would calm down. Thanks so much for replying. Bob the goodwin (talk) 19:08, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, I appreciate your aims but felt your wording would stir up the Truth seekers rather than calming them. No doubt we'll see how the political situation develops, dave souza, talk 19:17, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Re: Freedom_of_Information_requests_to_the_Climatic_Research_Unit

Hi, just leaving a note of thanks for you spending some time redoing the first part in response to my attempts at edits. I did notice a few typos which I will now edit (hopefully nothing needing a revert). I remain concerned about the lack of refs for the first part of the article, and get the overall impression that that part is too one-sided, but my memory of the incidents is not perfect(!) and I need to do more research. Could you give me info on the Pearce 2010 reference so I can track it down? It doesn't seem to lead anywhere. (edit)Is it perhaps "The Climate Files: The battle for the truth about global warming"?

Just to give you some background, as a molecular biologist I worry about impediments to the free exchange of scientific knowledge and researchers publishing work without publicly providing the underlying data, but I'm also concerned about vexatious requests. I know that in my field, there's pretty much no excuse for not handing over any data (as opposed to physical materials), even to people we don't like, which is why this incident drew my interest at the time. WikiMondoman (talk) 04:48, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for commenting, the Pearce reference was incomplete and I've added the missing detail. Pearce's book was developed from a series of articles which invited feedback. Some was rather critical of his reporting, but it's a reasonable reference for the points made in our article.

More broadly, contrarian demands for climate data and other information have been a recurring theme: in 2005 the Wall Street Journal published accusations from a semiretired Toronto minerals consultant who claimed to have had difficulty getting information about a 1999 scientific study, and this article was cited by U.S. Congressmen who issued letters to scientists demanding data and methods, personal information about their finances and careers, information about grants provided to the institutions they had worked for, and the exact computer codes used to generate their results. The data and methods had been published in 2000, the computer code had been more recently made available though this was going beyonds National Science Foundation requirements. The congressmen concerned turned down an official investigation (the North Report), and launched their own investigation: the Wegman Report which repeated the demands for sharing data and methods, but Wegman then prevaricated and failed to disclose his own data and methods.

Since then, freedom of information requests have extended to as yet unpublished research demanded by someone who openly admits having no expertise in the topic, and also demanded emails as he thought they could reveal a conspiracy to prevent him getting the data. Another case involved details of tobacco research which tobacco companies wanted. In your area, do you hand over research which is still being prepared, and disclose all your emails? . . dave souza, talk 14:59, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

The struggle for existence

Hi Dave, I just came across this article. I just don't see this as a standalone article it seems to me to be better covered in Charles Darwin and Natural selection. What do you think? --I am One of Many (talk) 05:45, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Will try to come back in more detail on this, I think it's legitimate as a specific issue that contributed to Darwin's thinking, but had been already published by others including Augustin Pyramus de Candolle. The title should probably be moved to struggle for existence which is currently a redirect. The article is only a start, but specific information on this topic would be useful to the other broader articles. . dave souza, talk 15:05, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

I agree that it is an important specific issue, but you do think that there is enough on the historiography of the idea for an article over and above its coverage in Charles Darwin and Natural selection? In any case, it doesn't hurt anything and could serve as a quick historical reference to the idea. It is a bit redundant and needs a little clean up as it stands. I'll fix it up a bit. I am One of Many (talk) 17:18, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I think there's plenty to be found in Desmond & Moore, Browne and Bowler plus van Wyhe's outline, though obviously these are in the context of Darwin.

The main issue needing picked up is that for Malthus it was an argument against utopianism which became the widely discussed cultural issue of Malthusianism in the early 19th century, for Lyell part of his rejection of Lamarckian evolution, and for Darwin the key to explaining how transmutation related to farmers breeding varieties.

Stauffer's footnote to Darwin's unpublished "big book" p. 569 says "" So we need to check these out, and try to find context of what the authors meant.

Note that the original reference by Darwin equates it to de Candolle's declaration that all nature is at war, one organism with another, or with external nature.. dave souza, talk 11:07, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

AL

Regarding this I think at this point it's probably better to just let it be. Let's just stop commenting altogether and wait for the bot to archive the section, no good will come out of responding to senseless accusations. Regards. Gaba 22:09, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Sigh so apparently AL is determined to have that his WP:PAs show in the TP for as long as possible Anyway... Cheers. Gaba 22:39, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Help!

The anonymous user who keeps changing the Charles Edward Stuart page has got me close to, and has him/herself passed 3RR. I'm not an admin, and have forgotten the process for reporting such behaviour. As you have contributed to this discussion I wondered whether you might be able to lend a hand? Best. Brendandh (talk) 07:39, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Unless the anon is using two IP addresses, which is perhaps possible, they're not past 3RR and so WP:AN/EW would be premature. More to the point, I've asked them for sources stating specifically that Chas was Italian. Without that, it's original research and should be removed, which I've done. As an involved editor I can't take admin action myself, but can help with the report to WP:AN/EW if it comes to that. . dave souza, talk 09:21, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Ta for that. Still fuming at it, short wikibreak (to monastic articles or somesuch) I think! Brendandh (talk) 21:42, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, sorry you bore the brunt of that. A Wikibreak is always a good idea, as is turning to something more peaceful. Though battles can break out unexpectedly, and it's best to regard such silliness with detached amusement as much as possible. Usually someone else will help out with removing such nonsense, . dave souza, talk 08:02, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

HENRIETTA DARWIN'S complete date OF DEATH

• It should read: 17 December, 1927; I don't know which to 'hate' the more: ODNB or Misplaced Pages!

2.27.113.193 (talk) 20:49, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

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Thanks, if anyone's watching these links are deliberate: they provide an index of species named to commemorate Darwin. . dave souza, talk 10:24, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

You have been mentioned on ...

You have been mentioned on a Misplaced Pages current climate change/global warming contributors discussion; of interest? (",) 141.218.35.19 (talk) 00:16, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Request for comment

Hello there, a proposal regarding pre-adminship review has been raised at Village pump by Anna Frodesiak. Your comments here is very much appreciated. Many thanks. Jim Carter through MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:46, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Flood geology

Hi, uncle Dave. I mean, grandpa Dave. There's more talk on Talk:Flood geology. Please consider giving some further views on the first sentence, in view of the latest posts. darwin 01:53, 27 June 2014 (UTC).

You're scared? How do you think I feel when the discussion turns to style! "Rhythm, panache, focus, you know". . will ponder it, but Yopienso seems to be doing pretty well. . dave souza, talk 06:03, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Bishonen hopeless, sorry! Occupational injury. Head permanently messed up from time spent scolding grad students about style and panache. Ignore her nonsense, Yopienso surely need support. Hope my sister don't turn up there and form consensus all on her own, leaving wasteland behind! darwin 09:28, 27 June 2014 (UTC).

Oh, just saw you did. Good, cancel Darwinbish alarm! darwin 09:32, 27 June 2014 (UTC).

Charles Darwin

"Elizabeth "Bessy" Darwin" is NOT a bona fide link to an article about her; please change it?

Darwin's children William Erasmus Darwin (27 December 1839 – 8 September 1914) Anne Elizabeth Darwin (2 March 1841 – 23 April 1851) Mary Eleanor Darwin (23 September 1842 – 16 October 1842) Henrietta Emma "Etty" Darwin (25 September 1843 – 17 December 1927) George Howard Darwin (9 July 1845 – 7 December 1912) Elizabeth "Bessy" Darwin (8 July 1847 – 8 June 1926) Francis Darwin (16 August 1848 – 19 September 1925) Leonard Darwin (15 January 1850 – 26 March 1943) Horace Darwin (13 May 1851 – 29 September 1928) Charles Waring Darwin (6 December 1856 – 28 June 1858)

Martin 2.27.131.233 (talk) 07:52, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Ok, think that's it done. . . dave souza, talk 08:41, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

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Have you seen

Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Allenroyboy. I should have paid more attention long ago. Dougweller (talk) 10:45, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, that's useful. I was looking at the article content, which was rubbish, will try to apply a quick patch. . dave souza, talk 10:54, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

What's going on?

I've seen your contributions to the global warming debates over the years. I thought you were pretty reasonable, so I'm taken aback at the attitude in your recent posts. Did I say something that set you off?

I also reviewed some of the recent posts, and realized there were some responses/implied questions to me that I missed. On the chance that you missed an important response to you, I take offense at being accused of making things up. I asked for a retraction (implied : if you have evidence, please supply it). Is that an unfair request?--S Philbrick(Talk) 11:39, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

I'd much the same impression of your comments, and so was surprised to see you appearing to accuse climatologists of trying to mislead the public. Since you've asked, I've added a retraction comment making it clear that I've no idea whether you made up these points or read them somewhere, indicating that sourcing would resolve the issue. At base, it's not my view that we should downgrade points made as a priority by the AR5 on a presumption of bad faith by scientists. . dave souza, talk 14:09, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

With regard to the Ocean warming, Uniformitarianism applies - so warming was already hiding in the oceans in all the last decades or we need good reasons why the process started when there was need for an explanation for the hiatus. You made a remark about the "misled and the ignorant" I would be more careful on that. Some Scientists may be good at explaining global warming on an average, but - fully in line with the IPCC findings - local climate changes may be tend in different directions. Therefore the "science" youre talking about doesnt mean a British mayor taking care about grit bins and rock salt now does a bad service to his citizens. Grundmann and others assume that this sort of science doesnt help much with actual policy needs. I fully agree with them. Serten (talk) 15:03, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

The Beagle

Hi Dave-- This may interest you. Scroll down just past the title. Regards, Kablammo (talk) 20:37, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Ha! Many thanks, that's nailed it. . dave souza, talk 21:36, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Methodological Naturalism Article

I and a few other contributors to the Philosophical Naturalism article believe that methodological naturalism is worthy of its own page. I've therefore started a draft you are free to edit before I submit after of few weeks. Cheers. https://en.wikipedia.org/User:Philocentric/methodological_naturalism Philocentric (talk) 10:00, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for tackling this, will try to contribute eventually. Unfortunately I've got limited time at present so can't promise any early edits. . dave souza, talk 20:03, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Religious views of Charles Darwin

Hi Dave, the article on the Religious views of Charles Darwin reads well and looks in relatively good shape but I notice that there is a sizable section on Downe parish that is entirely devoid of citations. The article history reveals that you added the text in a major edit on 24 May 2005‎. I wondered whether, if you still had access to the sources, you might be persuaded to revisit the article and add them. Aa77zz (talk) 12:33, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Ok, mostly it's Desmond and Moore so shouldn't take too long, dave souza, talk 20:05, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

It looks much better. Aa77zz (talk) 10:48, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

September 2014

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Interview for The Signpost

This message is being sent to you as a member of WikiProject Scotland

The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Scotland for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Thanks, Rcsprinter₁₂₃ (parlez) @ 16:36, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Precious

evolution
Thank you for quality articles on evolution, such as Darwin's Fertilisation of Orchids, for evolution in referencing, and for inviting new articles by red links, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:31, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Two years ago, you were the 265th recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize, - and in response to a year ago: singing Verdi's Requiem was a great experience. A different style is planned for February 2015 with the same three choirs (pictured): Karl Jenkins Te Deum and Gloria. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:11, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

ps: project Signpost interview was fun, and Scotland mentioned on my talk yesterday, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:16, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Thank you very much for this kind thought, your singing prowess is impressive and your town looks delightful. Had a look at your talk page for the reference to Scotland and at first thought Ave Maria might refer to "Ellen's Third Song", but apparently not. Got diverted by the Leoš Janáček reference into listening to a recording of the Glagolitic Mass and investigating recordings of The Makropulos Case which we saw at Scottish Opera many years ago. All of which took some time, then when I searched your page it was really about a countertenor in Scotland. Impressive stuff, don't know where you find the energy for it all! . . dave souza, talk 21:22, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

November 2014

Hello, I'm Materialscientist. I noticed that you made a change to an article, Timothy Ball, but you didn't provide a source. I’ve removed it for now, but if you’d like to include a citation to a reliable source and re-add it, please do so! If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. Materialscientist (talk) 07:46, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Wrong undo! You restored an edit made 07:43, 25 November 2014‎ by 76.168.163.209 in essentially a revert conflict, sorted out now. . dave souza, talk 08:01, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Nationality field in info box

Dave, I wonder could you maybe look into an issue of general importance. I would have assumed that a nationality field in an info box would always refer to the sovereign nationality, except in specialized cases such as where a person's ethnicity clashes with a ruling ethnicity in nations where boundaries have changed as a result of wars or other upheavals. Eg. I would refer to an ethnic Russian who lived in 19th century Donetsk, as being Russian, even though it is in modern day Ukraine, whereas I would refer to a 19th century Pole from Warsaw as being Polish, even though it was in the Russian Empire then. I would reverse the logic over those two cases on the basis of giving due consideration to how the subject themselves would wish to be portrayed. There seems to be some good faith editors at the James Clerk Maxwell article who wish to use the subordinate "Scottish nationality" in the info box. This is very misleading and serves only to promote the Scottish nationalist aspiration. I don't think this precedent should be allowed. If it's allowed, the floodgates will open. They'll be turning up arguing that Maxwell was a Northumbrian since Northumbria used to extent further north. 86.145.98.85 (talk) 18:23, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

I've commented there and think the "Scottish nationality" in the info box is inappropriate, but currently don't have the resources to go deeper into the point. Thanks for commenting, dave souza, talk 11:52, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Dave, OK. I noticed an editor called Martin Hogbin was battling against a guy who seems intent on banning the word 'British'. The guy in question edits on the main article against a consensus. There's nothing more I can do about it, but I have suggested that Martin Hogbin take the matter to some kind of opinion forum. Please take a look out for if and when that happens, because it will have general repercussions as regards allowing pressure groups to re-write history and to ban the word British altogether. Misplaced Pages needs to be on its guard about that kind of thing. 86.145.98.85 (talk) 15:39, 4 December 2014 (UTC)