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Archived discussions

• Archive 1: June 2005 to December 2005
• Archive 2: December 2005 to March 2006
• Archive 3: March 2006 to May 2006
• Archive 4: May 2006 to June 2006

References for Maharaja Ranjit Singh's Ancestry (Mahan/Sandhu edits)

Hey Sukh!

The references on Maharaja Ranjit Singh's page are not consistent with the sources and external links listed on the page.

Since the town of Gujranwala was founded by Sansi's its easy to see why this has been a cause for confusion. By the way I've read some of the material that you're overlooking and think you're doing a great job.

Here are the references, the bibliography is usually listed at the bottom of each page: http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/warriors/charat.html http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/warriors/ranjit1.html

Some other references with Bibliographies and references to Sandhu Heritage: http://www.4dw.net/royalark/India4/lahore2.htm (look for Naudh Singh Sandhu) http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE2-3/bajwa.html http://www.uq.net.au/~zzhsoszy/ips/l/lahore.html http://www.punjabilok.com/misc/freedom/freedom_index.htm

Hope this helps to simplify things for you,

Thanks!

Sorry about the delay. I'll look into this shortly. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 00:17, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Sikhism FA

Yo Sukhbhai - I'm back. What is your thinking on the FA drive? Is there anything I can help on? By a brief examination, you've done a fantastic job. I think poignant criticism will only now be obtained on FAC, so I'd like to know where you stand. Rama's Arrow 06:32, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Welcome back Nirav! The Sikhism article has come a long way. I've been extremely busy recently (which is really bizarre, because I don't think I've done anything particularly productive the last week!) and so haven't been able to concentrate on WP as much as hoped. There is a couple of things I'd like to do first before a FA drive. In this order:

• Correct errors in decision making section as pointed out by Hardeep on talk.
• Remove ISO transliterations for people's names and places (there is a general consensus that they're a bit overwhelming)
• Add a line or two about Sikh sects and groups
• Copyedit
• FAC!

It's been good to note that a few more Sikhs have contributed to talking about the article on the talk page. Some of their feedback has been very constructive! Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 00:17, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Sure, I'll begin addressing the problems tomorrow. The overall article looks good - especially creating the Sikh fork, as it should be religion-specific. Rama's Arrow 02:04, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Question

I'm beginning to think that the "Independent India" section in history is not relevant to the discussion of the Sikh religion. What do you think? Rama's Arrow 23:34, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe it's more suited to the article Sikh? A quick mention is all that is required on the Sikhism article I think. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 23:36, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Right, I'll suitably compress it. Rama's Arrow 23:37, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

FAC

If you feel generally comfortable, I think you should launch the FAC. Poignant criticism will only be obtained there, so no point in waiting. I'll continue to copyedit and keep a close eye on things. Rama's Arrow 23:55, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey - you haven't setup completely. You must write a nomin on the "leave comments" and list it on WP:FAC. Rama's Arrow 00:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, sorry! Rama's Arrow 00:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

It's now done ;) I was thinking of a nice intro...! Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 00:09, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Hahahaha....Sweet dreams! Rama's Arrow 01:49, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

congrats!

Whether or not the FAC succeeds, you should sleep deep and peacefully in the knowledge of the fantastic work you've done. Btw, if you're thinking about going for RfA again, I'd strongly suggest that you diversify your work on admin-related tasks, and beyond Sikhism-related articles. I think it is necessary to showcase more growth in contributions. Rama's Arrow 06:04, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I think I'll put off the RFA - I've just not got the time at the moment, and administrative tasks are not something that especially appeal to me at the moment :)

I totally forgot that this barnstar was here, it's time to add it to my trophy cabinet - barnstar number three! Thanks! Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 20:16, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi Sukh - many thanks! The day was especially important for personal reasons. Also, Happy Birthday to you, whether upcoming or belated! Rama's Arrow 16:31, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Belated - but thanks still :) Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 20:20, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Btw, user:Anwar saadat has some "issues" - consistently opposes all Indian topic FACs, and RfAs. Good that you replied on technical points he raised, but don't expect much from him. And don't worry about the FAC, it will pass inspite of him. Rama's Arrow 16:34, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I've seen some of his votes on other issues and I know what you mean. However, in this case at least I think his criticsms are valid. I'll try and address them when I get time. I do agree with both Anwar saadat and zafiroblue05 that the article may be a bit difficult to read. Again, I'll try and address that soon! Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 20:20, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Kartarpur

Greetings, Mr. Sukh.

I see that you have made a short stub on Kartarpur, in which it is said that 'Kartarpur is a small town near Jalandhar established by Guru Nanak Dev.'

I knew this was coming. I think, we have to make a disambiguation page for Kartarpur. If I am not wrong, you have an edition of 'The Illustrated History of the Sikhs'. It must be having a map showing two different Kartarpurs in the Punjab; the Kartarpur in the Jullundur Doab, which was founded by Arjan and the one founded by Nanak. Arjan also founded the towns of Taran Taran(Majha) and Sri Hargobindpur (on the Beas), although I have read at some places that Har Gobind founded Sri Hargobindpur, which I think is wrong for he founded Kiratpur, which again according to some was founded by Har Rai. The list is long.

However, I think the disambiguation page should have links to pages entitled as Kartarpur(Nanak), for the town founded by the first Guru on the banks of the Ravi between present-day Kalanaur and Basohli along the course of the Ravi as it descends from Chamba and flows towards Lahore, and Kartarpur(Arjan), for the town founded by the fifth Guru.

By the way, we even need a disambiguation page for Shahadara linking to the one on the left bank of the Ravi facing Lahore and the one on the eastern bank of the Yamuna in Delhi.

Regards. Rajatjghai 18:49, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey Rajatghai,

Unfortunately, the book does not have a map that shows either Kartarpur. Yes, I agree with you that we need a disambig page. Maybe instead of having Kartarpur (Guru's Name) it should be Kartarpur (District)?

I'm quite astonished by your knowledge of Punjabi clans, culture and geography. Are you studying/have studied a degree related to such a subject? It'd be good to know your background on all this stuff! Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 20:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, sir. No, I don't have any degree as such in "Punjab Studies" so to speak. In fact, I am ashamed to say that I can't even write my mother tongue in either script:Gurmukhi/Shahmukhi. But I am passionate about the Punjab and hence try to gather info from wherever I can:Print, electronic, web etc.

Coming to Kartarpur, I agree on your suggestion about making two articles entitled Kartarpur(Districtname). It is very much acceptable to me.

Ah yes! I have made a slight but important change to the Sikh article. Please have a look. I hope you like it.

One last thing. I want to upload a suitable image of the Durgiana Mandir on the Hinduism in Punjab page. But I don't know how to. Can you help?

Thanks. Rajatjghai 01:23, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I can teach you Gurmukhi if you like. I know Devanagari too, so I can teach you via that. Very little difference between Devanagari and Gurmukhi in terms of how the script works.

I'm not sure about the change to the Sikh article. Is it wise to lump all Sikhs together as a single ethnic group? Especially when there are plenty of Sikhs that aren't Punjabis?

You can upload pictures using the 'Upload File' link in the toolbox on the left hand side. Make sure you've got appropriate licensing permission from the copyright holder! Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 01:33, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree that today there are plenty of Sikhs from non-Punjabi backgrounds and diverse racial groups. I have two solutions for this issue:

• In the 'Related groups' section, something could be added such as "Converts from various racial groups."
• It could be put to a discussion and vote, the likes of which we saw in the article on the Harimandir.

Rajatjghai 03:56, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

How about doing both? :) Sorry about the delay in replying, totally forgot! Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 00:04, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Re:Sikhism

Hi - yeah I've been keeping an eye on. I think you should report both Aryan818 and Elven on WP:ANI as WP:TROLLs. Rama's Arrow 00:00, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Especially Aryan818, who's been removing refactoring other people's edits. Rama's Arrow 00:01, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah I know. I've been trying to keep the comments under check on the talk page, but some of the edits are so wild and ruin the indentation so badly that I often get confused about who said what! Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 00:03, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Read my comment on Aryan's talk page! :) Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 00:03, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Btw, don't be discouraged over Zafirblue not changing his object vote. Raul654 doesn't promote based on vote count, and now that you've addressed his objections, its moot. This Fire Burns 04:33, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Howdy

How have you been Sukh! Thanks for your message yesterday on the Sikhi talk board! I have been away from Misplaced Pages for a while. Hope all is well with you. 138.49.98.53 09:10, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi. Are you sure that was me? I don't remember posting on any talk board... Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 09:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I know what you mean. The Sikh talk page ;) Yes all is good for me, we've turned the Sikhism article around so it looks pretty good now. Leave any comments you have about it on the talk page! Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 09:24, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Sukh, I don't have my laptop with me so I was not signed in before. What's the deal with the Khalistan page? I can see a lot of communal intent with the edits and reverts. I tried to introduce a few things on the page with comments on the talk page and 61.17.232.118 and 61.246.20.56 (possibly the same user) keeps reverting it. I need your feedback on how to handle it. Zafarnamah 20:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

To be honest, I've lost all interest in that page. It's just not really worth my time to handle. There are complaints from all sides and nobody is happy with the state of the page. I will see if I can add balance to the debate over the coming days. Please don't get sucked into a revert war (just let things settle down for a bit)! Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 20:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Sukh. I noticed that the user AnvarA had completed removed all accounts of Operation Bluestar and replaced them with the GOI version provided by Brar. He has been slowly trying to change the entire article in this manner and I see that you have tried to revert his changes on July 2. Since he was blocked once for a revert war, now he may be reverting using different IP addresses without logging in. I can be wrong, of course! Thanks for the update. All the best, Zafarnamah 05:25, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I have to say I definately approve of some of Anvar's edits. I've recently got Sikhism to FA status and will be concentrating on Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions (Indic) next. After that I can concentrate on the Khalistan article. I think the best course of action is to simply leave the page for the moment. Let Anvar do all the edits he wants, and then we can address individual points on the talk page. We need to sort out this page once and for all. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 12:41, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Reporting

You have taken enough abuse. I've reported our friends: . This Fire Burns 15:53, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! Normally I can't be bothered with doing stuff like that.  :) Sikhism should be FA soon! Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 20:08, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Could you please add Muhammad Iqbal to your watchlist for a bit? I'm having some trouble with POV-pushing anons. This Fire Burns....Always 20:13, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Already have. I've been kinda watching the events from afar... I'll see where I can help. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 20:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations!

Your first FA! Great reward for a month of hard, patient work. Btw, if you start another FA drive for a Sikhism subject, jus lemme know. Will love to help. This Fire Burns....Always 03:42, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm thinking about concentrating on Guru Granth Sahib after I've finished doing the Naming Conventions proposal and sorting out the Khalistan page. Feel free to contribute in the mean time! Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 12:37, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Sikhism

Congrats on FA! -- Samir धर्म 03:52, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

From me too. Good work! -- thunderboltz04:51, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Congrats Sukh... Lots of hard work on the FA -- Lost 06:55, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks everyone! I think it is likely to be the hardest of Sikhism-related pages to get to FA. From here on in, hopefully it'll get easier! Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 12:38, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

FAC of Fundamental Rights...

Okay, I looked through the Act, and found (on page 5, 7B(2)) that only one right is not accorded to OCIs (see changes). So now that point is also taken care of. Please reply on the FAC page.--May the Force be with you! Shreshth91 04:59, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

PS. good work on getting Sikhism up to FA status! --May the Force be with you! Shreshth91 04:59, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 12:38, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi Sukh

There has been a massive edit war going-on the Khalistan article. Both editors have been blocked but there has been lot of neutral United nations and stats removed. Please have look at it and rectify by taking or adding any information that has been removed. Try and make neutral as possible.--Sikh scholar 14:23, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Sukh

Sukh, if you need any detailed information on the Khalsa, I can provide it ALL, as all my family are, order of the Khalsa e.g. dad, mum, aunts, uncles and grandparents. Moreoever, we have close links to some of the most respected Sikh leaders in Sikhism, who are greatly involved in promoting and educating the Sikh diaspora about Sikhism, around the world. Moreoever, that goes for Philosophy, Sikhism commmon sense, interpretation, historical records and pretty much anything else. However, the only problem is I'm very busy (working on my PhD in CS) for the time being so when I have slighty less work load (hopefully 2 months) I can help significantly then P.S. Give me reply when recieve this.--Sikh scholar 02:36, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I would like detailed information on the function and history of the decision making structure in Sikhism. What was decreed by the gurus and what has been a development since. And also, how the SGPC relates to all this. The internet has been contradictory and fruitless and I haven't had chance to get any books yet.

Basically if you can contribute anything then it's appreciated. It takes a *lot* of work to get even a single article up to standard on Misplaced Pages. I contributed several days worth of constant work on Sikhism as did others to make it a featured article. If you have a web site with all this sort of information on, you can copy it straight to Misplaced Pages (provided you are the copyright holder of the material). Is there any specific topic that interests you?

Also, if you have pictures of manuscripts, Sikh monuments and buildings or pictures of old (very old so they're in the public domain) paintings then please upload them! We suffer from a distinct lack of multimedia content related to Sikhism (I've tried my best to fill some of the void with good content). Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 15:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

No problem Sukh. However, the reason why you've had these problems finding the information. Is because Sikhism is a very beautiful but complex religion that takes many years of study to under the full depth, richness and scope. Compared to other world-religion we also have comparatively low number of highly educated Scholars, which has made the lack of information, context and interpretation worse. Guru Gobind Singh was quoted on many occasions saying he wanted all of his Sikhs to be highly educated, to be able to understand the religion correctly. One of the Gurus (I can't remember which) used to say that education was a person's 'third eye'. What he meant was it allowed you to see things in a different correct way, instead of simple and stupidly. Therefore, don't worry I can help you with everything, however, it takes time, which I'm currently short of at the moment. However, don't worry, we'll make all the articles world-class and beautiful in time. With regard to pictures we have many. Question: Is the copyright with me if I took a pictures of holy Sikh manuscript, monuments, temples and etc. I've visted all the major temples in Punjab e.g. +50. The only ones left are Patna Sahib, Hemkund Sahib, Hazur Sahib and Nankana Sahib and then I've visted and payed my repsects to all the major temples in Sikhism and Sikh history- that would be a nice feeling. Far as I'm aware of copyright Law is if you take a Photograph, the copyright remains with photographer so if photographer is me then the copyright holder is me. --Sikh scholar 16:33, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

If the manuscript is suitably old (you're safe with anything before the 1930s ish I think) then yes. Just state the rough date it was made and where you got the picture (Own picture in this case). Please upload high quality images to and add them to Category:Sikhism. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 16:10, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the photographs of the temples are your property. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 16:44, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Singh

Hi. I have made a number of changes to the Singh article. Please have a look and tell me about rectifications needed.Rajatjghai 06:59, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Looks good! Although, I thought the Sanskrit root of Singh was Sinha (सिंह) and not Simha? Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 20:51, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

India and Indian

Hi - I've had some detailed talks with user:Spasage on the sensitive issue of national identity between India, Bangladesh and Pakistan. We've come up with some ideas on how to resolve the problem, through a disambiguation page for both "India" and "Indian." Obviously its a big move, so please weigh in here. This Fire Burns.....Always 08:42, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Your report to WP:AIV

Hi Sukh. I took a look at your report to WP:AIV about 86.7.132.163. I have decided not to take action against this user at this time. There are two reasons for this:

1. He has not been warned since June 8. In order to block a user for vandalism, he must have been appropriately warned in the last 24 hours.

2. This appears to be a content dispute. I examined the contributions from 86.7.132.163 and none that I could find fall under Wikipedi'a definition of vandalism.

If you can provide me specific diffs of recent vandalism, I am willing to reconsider this. Also, you might consider Misplaced Pages's other avenues of dispute resolution as they are more appropriate to a content dispute. In particular one of the mediation mechanisms is probably the most appropriate way to try to resolve this. Good luck, Gwernol 14:47, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

On closer inspection I agree that his changing of other user's comments on the Talk page is unacceptable. I have endorsed your warning on his talk page. If it happens again, let me know and I will block him from editing. Thanks, Gwernol 14:59, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll investigate content dispute resolution later. This really *isn't* a content dispute (some of the user's addition are actually ridiculous if you look closely - and none of it is sourced) and the user refuses to engage in any dialogue. I'm no fan of Bhindranwale, but I realise when the additions are frankly a joke :) Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 15:06, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Mujibur Rahman

Hi Sukh - I hope you'll be able to check this article and its FAC. This Fire Burns.....Always 00:35, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I will have a look at it soon (probably tomorrow cause it's late over here!). Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 00:41, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I've just had a quick glance: why do the cited web pages show PHP as the format? Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 00:42, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi - I've fixed that issue, and many others. Please take a look. This Fire Burns Always 20:22, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about the delay. I will try and look properly when I have a moment spare ;) Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 20:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Sikhiwiki character coding

Hi Sukh,

Thanks for the message. I have emailed Gurumustuk Singh a few times over the last several weeks and unfortunately the problem has not been totally resolved. It is possible that he has been very busy or may be he is not an expert at Wiki-technology - I don't really know!!

Any suggestion on how we can fix the problem? Or better still - do you know a wiki expert who could liaise with Gurumustuk! Yours suggestion will be most welcomed.

Congrats on getting the Sikhism article a FA status. Well done. What next for Sikhism on Misplaced Pages? The Sikhism Portal needs improvements???

Sorry I should have put this on my User talk page!!! Unfortunately, did not read the top of your user talk page. --Hari Singh 00:35, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Not to worry, people do that all the time! :)

It appears as if the original database was in ISO-8859-1 format (that is standard Latin script) but stored Unicode text in UTF-8 format. Then it seems as if the database was updated to UTF-8 format thinking that the stored text was in ISO-8859-1 format. So now it serves UTF-8 data encoded again in UTF-8 format. This sounds quite complicated, but it's an easy mistake to make. Please ask Gurumustuk if he has changed the database recently. I've never set up a wiki so I'm not exactly sure about the problem.

Thanks for your kind words about the Sikhism article! I'm not sure the portal is where we should concentrate on next. My thinking is maybe make either the Guru Nanak article featured or the article on the Guru Granth Sahib? Both could be both fascinating for us to research and have plenty of differing opinions :) Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 00:40, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I will pass on the section on the database format to GMS - I think that the Wikimedia or SQL engine was recently updated in connection with the 'rate my turban' system and this has somehow resulted in the 'mess'. As you say, if you don't have experience in setting up a wiki from scratch then it's not easy to know where the problem may be.

However, when using the system, it works OK in preview even with Gurmukhi text, but as soon as the page is saved, the data appears "lost" as "uncodeable" - ie question marks appearing, characters in the 128 to 255 ascii range replacing special character like -, ", ' (dash, double quote, single quote) and so on.

Also the quotation and other such templates do not work at all. It is irritating but I hope we will get it resolved soon as it has slowed progress on new articles and new input.

On the matter of the next step in the area of Sikhism at Misplaced Pages, whatever you decide, you have my support. Due to time constrains, I do not like to take any long term undertaking but you have my support and moral backing. I hope you don't mind me dabbing in every few days just to add my two pence's worth!! Guru Nanak will be an easier task at present as there is huge amount of information available and it will easier to make the article more user friendly and attractive - more pictures, more Sakhis to relate, etc. You decide and we will follow!! --Hari Singh 01:07, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Sukh, GMS appears to have solved the problem. I have not tested it fully but Gurmukhi appears Ok now. --Hari Singh 01:21, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

About Questions from 86.7.132.163: Page: http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Prohibitions_in_Sikhism

These questions have a touch of racism to them - possibly by a islamic religious body. I recommend dissociation of this discussion to a different place. The religion might be discussed but not with taking rubbish analogies like '....wearing ...sleeve'.

jujhar.tronics@gmail.com

Jujharsingh on Misplaced Pages

I was merely humouring the user. I know the user who made the comments has been a pain. They've been temporarily blocked already for a short period. More serious measures can be taken if the user continues to be a nuisance. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 20:43, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

New para

Hi - I'm responding here so as to keep out our noisy friends. I don't think you should keep this para, because apart from dealing with generalities, it pollutes the structure which got this article to FA status.

You should add data on Sikhism-Hinduism connection no doubt, but in appropriate places. And only meaningful data - i.e., the RSS/1984 riots mention should be taken out, becoz it is too much about politics and will demand details of its own that have nothing to do with Sikhism. We want to talk about Sikhism, not religious politics in India. The para you added violates NPOV becoz it gives unnecessary importance to a particular group of people making assertions about two broad religious systems. The RSS is also not credible source, becoz it doesn't get to decide what is Hinduism, much less what is Sikhism. I mean so many people talk of all religions as one, so why don't we add that line to every religion article here?

Thus, theological/philosophical connections of Hinduism should be added in "Philosophy and teachings." If the Gurus had particular opinions, teachings or actions relevant to this question, it should be in "Ten gurus" section. And you should add in "Sikh people" - about Hindu-Sikh relations, and that Sikhs visit and pray in Hindu temples and to Sufi shrines/saints in "Observances." Its hard to ignore the relevance of Sant Kabir, Nanak's mentor, to modern Sikh observances.

On the basic claim that Hinduism and Sikhism are perhaps one - this sentence should be included in "History" - the latter in relevance to the ideas of Sikh and Hindu authorities (not RSS) - and/or "Philosophy and teachings."

I hope this is helpful. I'm otherwise fine with however you deal with this, as you should ask some other contributors on what they feel. This Fire Burns Always 21:30, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

To add, this present para protudes as an obvious political question/influence on this article, and you'll find many people objecting to it. This Fire Burns Always 21:34, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I definately agree with some of your points. However, I will see how other users respond to it and then get back to you! Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 21:36, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to make some of the changes you mentioned - however please leave the paragraph in one place for the moment. Once we get the actual content up to scratch, we can mix it into the page ;) Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 21:38, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Hinduization of Sikhism

Hi - do check this article out. It has obvious problems, but I'm not sure if it merits an AfD. This Fire Burns Always 14:29, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

This situation is now spiraling out of control. I've set the page up for speedy deletion because it's a copy vio. However, I agree with Elven that the issues need discussion. However, the article is a copyvio, POV and labelled very badly. It deals mainly with the RSS so it should be labelled accordingly.

I think we should sort out the para on the Sikhism page, and then let Aryan and Elven battle it out on *another* page. I have not got the time to get involved in these silly games with people who have no idea how to cite or discuss properly! Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 15:27, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok its up so check it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elven6 (talk • contribs)

Hi - I've shifted the article to VfD - speedy delete applies (I think) only if Elven himself nominates it. This Fire Burns Always 15:47, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't mind VfD, but because of the copyvio it's a candidate for speedy delete (see WP:SPEEDY) Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 15:50, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Omg I CITED WHAT WAS TAKEN, its like talking to children right now who refuse to listen.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Elven6 (talk • contribs) 

Linking to and Sikh Lionz is not appropriate citation. Look at the Sikhism article to find out what is proper citation: direct URLs and page numbers to books. And, look out how it's not acceptable to copy large chunks of text EVEN if it is cited! Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 15:56, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Large chuncks, most of the stuff isn't even a sentence, its Misplaced Pages, nothings stoping you from helping out is their. Fricking the 2 of you think you own the Sikhism articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elven6 (talk • contribs)

Please give your comments on the AFD and please be WP:CIVIL -- Lost 16:03, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I can help out. But I'd much rather start with a blank page than a copyright violation. If you want to add information about Hinduism's influences on Sikhism, you can do that already - there is an article at Hinduism and the Sikh Panth. You are welcome to add your *own* words there, with citations please. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 16:04, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Im not posting their, he never provided proof or anything why not give him hell!

July 14 2006 UTC