Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 18:22, 1 January 2015

Hello, Lipsquid and a belated welcome to Misplaced Pages! I see that you've already been around awhile and wanted to thank you for your contributions. Though you seem to have been successful in finding your way around, you may benefit from following some of the links below, which help one get the most out of Misplaced Pages. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are interested in learning more about contributing, you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Happy editing! zzz (talk) 19:34, 3 November 2014 (UTC) Getting Started Misplaced Pages Tutorial • The five pillars of Misplaced Pages How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Frequently Asked Questions Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Misplaced Pages is not • Biographies of living persons Simplified Manual of Style • Three-revert rule Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism • Sock puppetry Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The Community Community Portal • Adopt-a-user program Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • Resolving disputes Build consensus • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Pages needing attention • Peer review Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Categories • Disambiguity • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

Boko Haram

Hi. I completely understand your reservations about the section in question, however, the reference to the Iranian revolution is not only referenced, but the reference references several other references:

Other contributing factors were the rejection of the secular nature of the Nigerian society and the impact of the success of the 1979 Ayatollah Khomeini revolution in Iran (Hickey 1984: 251-256; Lubeck 1985: 369-390; Hiskett 1987: 209-223; Usman 1987: 11-25; Isichei 1987: 194-208; Clarke 1987: 93- 115; Kastfelt 1989: 83-90; Ibrahim 1997: 509-534; Albert 1997: 285-325; Falola 1998: 137-162; Albert 1999a: 274-309; 1999b: 19-36; Stock 2004: 415- 417).

zzz (talk) 19:35, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

None of the main factors are mentioned in the section and the other contributing factors are portrayed as the main contributing factors.

"The rejection of secular authority, and the increasingly radical nature of Islam, locally and internationally, beginning with the 1979 Ayatollah Khomeini revolution in Iran, "

does not reflect the views in the citation and I specifically have an issue with "beginning with"

https://en.wikipedia.org/Sayyid_Qutb https://en.wikipedia.org/Muslim_Brotherhood

Maybe I should spend the time later re-writing the paragraph to match the citation. I don't have any axe to grind, I don't make a lot of edits and only make efforts to correct things that are glaringly incorrect.

Lipsquid (talk) 19:54, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Note that the connection to the Iranian revolution is reliably referenced, as I mentioned above. zzz (talk) 19:58, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

"Beginning with" is not reliably referenced because it is not factually true nor is it in the cited reference.

The reference says: "and the impact of the success of the 1979 Ayatollah Khomeini revolution in Iran"

Lipsquid (talk) 20:05, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

How would you word it (without actually copy/pasting the source)? zzz (talk) 20:07, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

The rejection of secular authority, the increasingly radical nature of Islam, both locally and internationally, and the success of the 1979 Ayatollah Khomeini revolution in Iran contributed to the Maitatsine and the Boko Haram uprisings.

Acceptable?

Lipsquid (talk) 20:13, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm not averse to improving the wording, as I have already demonstrated. But the present wording is better than what you propose. The revolution marks a new Islamic radicalism, which your proposed wording obscures. I did not believe this to be controversial, so I omitted other sources which make precisely the same point. Note that uncontroversial claims such as this do not need to be specifically referenced. If there are reliable references asserting that it (ie, the phrase "beginning with") is wrong, you have not provided them. zzz (talk) 20:21, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

And for future reference, when you object to 2 words, it's not a good idea to delete the entire sentence and claim that it's unreferenced. Not every word or phrase needs to appear in a reference. Indeed, if it did, as in your wording proposed above, that would be properly rejected as "close paraphrasing". zzz (talk) 20:34, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Do you have a proposed sentence that does not include "beginning with" when referencing the Iranian revolution. I have already sent you Sayyid Qutb pages which contains many references to him being the father of radical islam and spefically so within the Salafi?wahhabi sects of which Boko Haram belong. Are you for some reason set on "beginning with" even though it is not in the cited reference? Lipsquid (talk) 20:48, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is not a reliable reference. Besides which, you have not indicated where the Misplaced Pages articles mention Nigeria. To say that the Iranian revolution marked a new upsurge in modern Islamic radicalism is in no way controversial, and is well-supported in the references provided. Naturally one could (hypothetically) mention earlier, as well as later, developments; reliable sources, however, do not connect other events with events in Nigeria. In summary, it's too early to say whether I'll come up with an equally satisfactory alternative. The point you seem to be making is that "the increasingly radical nature of Islam, locally and internationally, beginning with the Iranian revolution" implies that the revolution marked a significant upsurge in radicalism, in that period. I can't accept there is anything controversial about that, unless you provide reliable references refuting it. zzz (talk) 21:07, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

I suggest we enlist an article editor with an understanding of Islam. The section is poorly written and does not accurately portray the statements in the cited reference. I proposed a more neutral solution that in my view is still far from ideal and you seem to have some insistence that the 1979 Iranian revolution was the start of radical Islam, it was not; therefore we are at an impasse. Lipsquid (talk) 21:22, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

I've discussed this with you, and you're welcome to request other opinions. In the meantime, you are not entitled to make unilateral changes to the text of the article, which has been stable for several months in its present state, so as to agree more closely with your POV. zzz (talk) 21:32, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

WP:3RR

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Misplaced Pages's policy on edit warring. Thank you.zzz (talk) 21:44, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Edit warring at Boko Haram

You've been warned per the result of WP:AN3#User:Lipsquid reported by User:Signedzzz (Result: Both warned). Either of you may be blocked if you continue the war. If you get agreement on Talk, then there will be no problem. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 14:34, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

bokoharam

I changed the wording. If your still not satisfied please state your concerns (rather than deleting the paragraph), to avoid edit-warring. thanks zzz (talk) 11:43, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

But thanks for pointing out the problems. zzz (talk) 20:14, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I appreciate you efforts on a difficult subject, but we all let personal opinions slip into our writing at times. Do you have a referense that specifically ties the Arewa People's Congress or Arewa Consultative Forum to Boko Haram? The word "Boko Haram" is not in the reference you cited. When searching Google I found no articles that claimed Arewa People's Congress supported Boko Havam, theough the do support Muslims and Jihad. I will make updates as I feel appropriate as long as individuals place personal POV into articles rather than citing the POV of a referenced third party. The joint small efforts of massive numbers of people is what makes wikipedia an encyclopedia. Lipsquid (talk) 18:22, 1 January 2015 (UTC)