User talk:Jimbo Wales: Difference between revisions

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	] 05:33, 17 July 2006 (UTC)		] 05:33, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


	*This kind of stuff is common. It should go in Arbcom where they will tell you 100% of the time, the admin is right no matter what. ] 08:12, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

	== stuff copied to my talk page ==		== stuff copied to my talk page ==

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Please help me

This person: user:improv keeps on changing my atricle on Samrat Upadhyay. Is he an editor? Please tell me how can I improve and maintain the wiki standard. I want to be a proper contributor. Give me an idea about what to include and what not to.--Nepal avish 01:46, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello Jimbo, I have a suggestion

While on Misplaced Pages, I have noticed, due to technical resctrictions, that articles starting with lowercase letters must be changed to start with capitals. Now, I am sure someone else has suggested this, can't you simply have that word not the beggining of the title? For example, you may IPod to Apple iPod, and Imac to Apple iMac. You can have EBay as WWW.eBay.COM, or something even. -Ravi 15:05, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Hm...why not change the Wikimedia Software so it lets you have lowercase titles? Wouldn't that be a better solution? --67.142.130.46 17:30, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Greetings Earthling, Jimbo:

I do apologize for calling you on your cell phone while you were eating dinner with your parents. I promise not to call you again. I didn't know you had a talk page. I didn't know I had a talk page. I would just like to make five suggestions.

1. There should be a Misplaced Pages FAQ that new Misplaced Pages users can't miss. In other words there should be a flashing hypertext link to it in a very large font all in a box on Misplaced Pages's home page. This FAQ should explain everything about Misplaced Pages. It should explain the Misplaced Pages process. It should tell users about advocates, mediators, and arbitrators. This would save everyone a lot of grief.

2. Some editors revert anything a new contributor adds to an entry. They do this unceremoniously without comment. They do this even if the contributor substantiates their claims on the article talk page. This appears to be against stated Misplaced Pages policy. New editors are often patronized, berated, insulted and sanctioned simply because they do not understand the Misplaced Pages process. New editors should have some simple recourse to hostile treatment, and this information should be included in the FAQ.

3. No one should be allowed to edit an article unless they have registered with Misplaced Pages and sign in with a password. Their email address should be confirmed. This would lessen vandalism and free up administrators to do more constructive things.

4. Misplaced Pages would greatly benefit from a web site map. Misplaced Pages is a labyrinth.

5. I am sure there is a fifth suggestion I would like to make, but I just can't think of one now.

Warmest and kindest regards, Michael D. Wolok

PS. If you ever find yourself in Miami and need any kind assistance please feel free to call on me.

croatia again?

u have in plans 2 visit croatia or other near countries in the near future?
btw, r u the only person who created wikipedia or there were some other people included 2?
Respond soon, m8.
West Brom 4ever

My article

Why did you delete all Bobby's articles? Sorry, if I made funny articles. I made those up because I made a story about Math Genius who lived in Math (state). I created Math (state) article. Did I put that Math Genius lived in Math (state)? If you can, could you recreate it?

smile dude

RainbowSprinkles has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Smile to others by adding {{subst:smile}}, {{subst:smile2}} or {{subst:smile3}} to their talk page with a friendly message. Happy editing!

Thanks for all u do

Sockpuppets and their Masters

Hello, this is Armando341. I have placed some blocks on users who I know are definitely vandals, including sockpuppets of user:1028 and user:guns'nroseslover. These two, however, are not in any way related. Hope you don't mind.-Armando341

Maybe it's a good idea

Ste4k wrote: Hi Jimbo! I had an idea that is useless to me but might be something for you, let's see. I've only been around here for about a week, so if it sounds silly, please just ignore it. I think that television shows should not be considered factually worth an article until they have actually completed the season written about. This would reduce the edit warring caused by particular people whom are actually only acting as newscasters and producing O.R. It would end the bickering between them, end the sensationalism they add, end the problems with writing one day in future tense and the next day in past. And when it's all said and done for that season, they ignore those articles leaving a big mess for everyone else to clean up. If only completed programs were considered facts, then the only people writing about them would be the people interested. :) BTW, this is not a request. It's just an idea that's useless to me. :(

nice touch

http://en.wikipedia.org/WP:AN#User:Prometheuspan

he even used an ad hominem AS THE JUSTIFICATION for the block.

above stuff unsigned and likely done by Prome-something

Brians Peppers

Why did you delete all the pages on Brian Peppers? -— Preceding unsigned comment added by Sheepdog tx (talk • contribs) 15:06, July 4, 2006

His family requested it. They were upset by the satyrical fame their son had achieved on the internet.--The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 15:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

No, that is not the reason. The reason is that the page was properly deleted by a proper AfD, and then brought back multiple times, resulting in what looked to me like a brewing war over it. I decided that it was really quite unimportant as a topic, and that the principle that AfD should be respected was more important. --Jimbo Wales 16:16, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Jimmy, that makes sence in itself, but the sentiment of respecting Brian Peppers family is a much more important one as far as humanitarianism is concerned. Old friend 06:00, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I suggest you make it into a links page to Brian Peppers articles on other wikis. DyslexicEditor 17:11, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I suggest you leave it the way it is: {{deletedpage}}. --Lord Deskana (talk) 17:12, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

There's images like this Image:Toby-peppers.png on wikipedia. This one looks 9 months old. DyslexicEditor 23:20, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Until quite recently, unfortunately, the Peppers thing was kept alive on the talk page. I deleted the talk page and this was then taken to Deletion review. The deletion was supported in the review. So we really do as a community agree with Jimbo's action. --Tony Sidaway 23:48, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I was unaware of the article's AfD, I only knew of its most recent deletion. Sorry about the incorrect response.--The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 00:56, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages, WP:NOT, and Real time strategy games

Hello Jimbo. I feel funny barging in here like this, but I have a question about WP:NOT and its implications to some pages I wrote as they pertain to gaming. On Misplaced Pages it is not uncommon to find article dealing with games, and most games have extra pages covering characters and equipment and such. Overall, the pages do not seem to bump up against policy here, so I decided to be bold and overhauled a bunch of paes relating to the real-time strategy game Command & Conquer and one of its off shoots, Command & Conquer: Generals. Among other things I created a listing of all the units that appeared in the games, but I was careful to omit the cost, prerequists, and specific uses of the units so that anyone reading up on the material would have to go elsewhere to find that information (its usually presented in a game guide, which we are not allowed to have here). Since then however admins have listed the material on AFD, claiming that the info presented is a violation of WP:NOT by presenting a game manual and a how to guide. I take offense to that for two reasons: first, I have not told anybody how to do anything. There are no strategy guides, no walkthroughs, nothing of that nature on the pages. Secondly, the information is encyclopedic, as it cover the evolution of the units and strucutres throughout the series. In the case of the units other contributers have even added real to life inspirations for such vehicals.

Ordinarly I would not bother you about this, but I do feel that the pages have encyclopedic value here. I am also concerned about the presedent that this raises, as the admins have vowed to begin a mass deletion campaign against article in the Warcraft and StarCraft universe when these article are finished. I am not asking you to vote on the AFD (although if you want to that would be awesome), but I would like your two cents on the matter. Since you founded the site, I figure that you understand better than anyone what should and should not be allowed here. TomStar81 05:09, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

The real standard in question here concerns the inclusion of minutia from fictional worlds. It seems to me that many people have a bias against the kinds of fictional worlds found in most games, where characters, places, and objects have a kind of auto-generated feel to them rather than a human touch (take World of Warcraft for an example). The fact is that lots of this stuff -- for very complex reasons contemplated only by bleeding-edge literary critics and their ilk -- develops meaning for thousands of not millions of people, whether or not they exhibit much authorial care in their origins. It is almost certainly material of concern to only a subculture, but it would be injudicious to hold that against games and not other subjects. --Apantomimehorse 03:02, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages talk:Delete unused username after 90 days

Hi just a note to say that it has reached 200 in favour (with just 14 opposing) which seems to be a good time to implement for most people. Just wondering if you could find out how as you have a position on the board (and if it is allowed) Lcarsdata 17:49, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Xed

Since you've twice unblocked this user ("he asked nicely") I was wondering whether you had any objection to an indefinite block in light of his (recently removed) trolling on this very page. Thanks. — Jul. 7, '06 <freak|talk>

I would prefer that if this were to be done, it be done through the ArbCom rather than unilaterally. I don't need protection from him. In my opinion, his rhetoric is transparently trolling and therefore it is best to let him speak as much as he likes... he proves a better point left free to harass me than if blocked. If he is abusing other people, then that is a different matter of course. But I am not concerned about Xed.

I am also a hopeless romantic. I imagine that someday he will realize that there is a better way to address some of his legitimate concerns (systemic bias, etc.) than to go around making preposterous and transparently silly arguments about my alleged corruption. --Jimbo Wales 19:38, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Well it looked like this Xed chap just gets too carried away with what he describes as legitimate critisim and comments. It's a wiki and there's no tolerance for trollish behavior such as that. I recommend forebearance and, if the block log gets too cluttered with such offenses, just quietly block them indefinitely with an summary such as "Exhausted the communities patience through idiotic trolling and is obviously not here to build an encyclopedia." -Randall Brackett 19:48, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, he has already exhausted the patience of everyone except for me, I am afraid. This has been going on for years. I do not think it really makes sense to call his behavior "just getting too carried away". He posts things which are really outrageous and based on falsehood, things that he knows (or has had every opportunity to know) are falsehoods, with the express purpose, as far as I can tell, of getting himself banned so that he can cry about the injustive of it all. Of late, he has been repeating the same tired story over and over, a story which is not true. Here is my summary of the situation: --Jimbo Wales 20:38, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, according to the blocking policy, "There have been situations where a user has exhausted the community's patience to the point where he or she finds themselves blocked. Administrators who block in these cases should be sure that there is community support for the block, and should note the block on WP:ANI as part of the review process." I'm sure you're aware of this. The growing support for this community block is located here. Just thought you should know, if you already didn't. --LV 21:32, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I support this block. This editor states blatent lies, defamation of character and consistently violates his arbcom ruling. We should not have to tolerate this nonsense. He's an obvious indefinite block canidate. This is a good block.-Randall Brackett 21:42, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I would just say that Xed is a annoying personality with delusions of grandeur. I do not think he will ever contribute positively to the encyclopedia, he is just a strange person that seems to get pleasure by attempting to push other people's button and then accuse them of being a part of a grand conspiracy against him. I understand that Jimbo unblocked him to underscore the silliness of Xed's accusations against him in particular, but I think it was the wrong thing to do on Jimbo's part since Xed's "campaign" against Mr. Wales was only one miniscule part of the years of negative behavior.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 05:16, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Hasn't he already contributed positively? Everyking 08:59, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Maybe he has made a couple of okay contributions, but this is canceled out many fold by his other actions.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 12:16, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Comment that was originally placed '

There is a cabal, the blocks issued by admins are often punitive, not preventive, and are not issued for disruptions of the main article space, but merely for offensive behavior in talkpages, which is only subjectively perceived and could easily be ignored. The blocks are usually not reverted because the admins stick together. Either the ArbCom shloud work better, or the community should be given the rights to desysop the admin and the policy for desysopping should be more strict. This concept of community where all are equal doesn't work, because you have the cops here (admins), who are more equal, they have their own "admin" community, but you have no functioning "internal investigation department" i.e. cophunters, who would pursue the admins for misuse of their powers, and the editors are not able to deal with the admin cabal. 85.70.5.66 21:11, 7 July 2006 (UTC) P.S.: Please don't consider this vandalism. I have placed an argument here, I know it will be deleted, but the owner of the page already stated that we may edit his page.

Dear 85.70.5.66, Here Here! You are 100% right on, totally correct. Excellent observation. If only Misplaced Pages had a transparent government with no bullshit going on. If only this really was the encyclopedia that 'anyone can edit'. The internet might be a better place for it. Then it would be something that does make the internet not suck. But as it is, it only adds to the suckiness of the internet. It only adds to the tons of propagandistic, demeaning, mind controlling advertisement-oriented crap that the world wide web has become.

And if we don't fight against it..

It will only get worse. And worse. And worse. 66.218.22.10 06:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

ps This is also a constructive criticism made by a person who once loved Misplaced Pages and would like to be able to love it again. 66.218.22.10 06:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Silly anons! Everybody knows there's a cabal! You can find it here and here. --Banana04131 23:10, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Self-governing community based on consensus

.. doesn't work Jimbo. In my comment above, I noted that there are no effective measures that would prevent the admins from misusing their powers, no "internal investigation". Moreover, you cannot expect the community to stick toghether, if there is a sub-group that has more power. This sub-group will stick together, it would in any environment. This doesn't get to its extremes here, because it is a virtual community and most people don't see the sense of their lifes in wikipedia, and the effects of "fighting for power" are therefore mitigated. In a real community based on this model, disputes would lead to estabilishment of parties, which would fight for power and the leaders of the winning party would eventually become dictators of this previously consensus-driven community. My point is, consensus might be a good way to resolve content disputes of the articles, it is, however, not a good way to govern a community. 85.70.5.66 08:23, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I'm thinking of Lord of the Flies. Or as Yeats said

Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world.

--Eggman64 09:30, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Or as Leonard Cohen said,

There is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in...

— Jul. 8, '06 <freak|talk>

Lord of the flies it ain't. More like Skull and Bones, Adolf Hitler's takeover of the German Nazi party or Joseph Stalin all rolled into one. Anarchy, real anarchy or at least a transparant government is what we need here. 66.218.22.4 07:50, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Spoiler warnings

At the moment there is a debate on whether spoiler warnings in articles about works of fiction should be deleted, on basis that they are not present in Britannica and other general encyclopedias, or kept, on basis they extend selection of readers to include ones intending to read, watch or play the work.

As arguments regularly involve interpretations of your ideas, I'd like to know what your actual opinion on this subject is, at least in a yes/no way. --CP/M 16:13, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

To my knowledge, I have never commented on this specific issue, but as a general rule, I think that almost any argument, on any topic, which has premises beginning with "Jimbo said..." is a pretty weak argument. Surely the merits of the proposal should be primary, not what I happen to think.--Jimbo Wales 17:00, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I believe the misunderstanding originated from your quote noting: "Our goal is to get to Britannica quality, or better." ---Jimbo Wales December 2005

I would conclude the intent of the quote was in reference to Britannica's quality to research, compose and generally view all their material as equivilent in value to the view of an encyclopedia. I really think Britannica's habbit to forgo spoiler tags is not merely based upon the content they posess, but the fact that its a silly ideal obtained from that of social networking websites and the like that do not consider themselves or their data encyclopediac. Its simply nonsense to warn readers of content when an encyclopedia operates with the intent to share all of its subjects as equal and knowledgeable as any other.

I endorse this paticular quote as I feel it describes our goal to keep the spirit of an excellent encyclopedia intact while expanding the amount of subjects not usually located in an encyclopedia. I don't see why, as an encyclopedia, simply because of our acceptance of various media articles we should treat them any differently than our mainstream subjects. All information at wikipedia is shared with the intent to inform those who seek it. It is utterly ridculous to allow those who endorse the concept of ignorance to operate the construction of an encyclopedia. -Randall Brackett 17:34, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is a new and different thing. Britannica did not publish detailed articles on movies while they were still in theatres. Get used to the idea that Misplaced Pages is redefining the word "encyclopedia". The issue is not how can we be like Britannica. The issue is how we can be the best Misplaced Pages we can be. Further, Misplaced Pages is changing, so what works best at one point in time may not be best at another. The encyclopedia that improves at the speed of technology. It's enough to make you dizzy. WAS 4.250 21:12, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

You have totally bypased the point of my comment. My view doesn't endorse the similarities we share with Britannica. It adresses the view that we are an encyclopedia and I don't paticularly care how much we break the mold, the definition and our goals haven't changed. I don't think we're redefining the definition of an encyclopedia and I do percieve, from my time as an editor that we are using the capcity and resources of the internet to expand upon what an original encyclopedia could hold.

In this, I don't see how any of that would be relevant. Spoiler tags were once useful, I think, when wikipedia was still growing as a website and we had not expanded our base of material yet. We've passed this point and its time to throw away the pacificer for the consumerist readers who are acustomed to usenet and other social networking sites. We're here to build an encyclopedia and provide knowledge to those who seek it. Not play silly games with people who wish to introduce their fictional fears of learning something new. Such actions go against the encyclopedia and the point of wikipedia. -Randall Brackett 21:56, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

As a consumer of information, I find spoiler warnings very useful. I like know that if I am reading ArticleA and I follow a link to a book or movie or the like, I'll get enough informaiton tounderstand why that book or movie was mentioned in ArticleA, but not so much as to spoil my experience if I ever read/watch the book/movie. If you don't like them or don't care, then they are easy enough to skip over as you read. Johntex\ 22:05, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I support the use of warning people about spoilers. To anyone who believes we should remove the spoiler warnings, how about once we know the secret to the next Harry Potter book (or whatever spoiler), let's put the spoiler at the top of the article (with no warning) and feature that article on the front of wikipedia so everyone gets spoiled by it? Would anyone really be okay with it? DyslexicEditor 22:38, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm just now noticing this discussion here, unfortunately. I think there's a common misconception at work here that courtesies regarding hypothetical scenarios (whether they really occur or not) are more important than the site's policies, integrity and the concept of making an encyclopedia, which is built on a few core concepts, including neutrality and no censorship. We don't censor images of naked women, we dno't censor images of humans being tortured and we shouldn't warn people away form spoiler information either when it's all considered as relevant as the other information and is supposed to be treated the same.

It's really a horrible double-standard that Misplaced Pages's been allowing ever since the spoiler tag was implemented, and this matter isn't about how it looks or some such thing, so you can't just "gloss over them" as you look at the pages. This is about the integrity of the project itself, which has been diminishing more and more as time has gone on, with events such as a template that would warn people of images of human torture being rejected on the grounds of Misplaced Pages not being censored, while this blasphemous spoiler template has held free reign on the grounds that it's "useful."

There are many useful things in existance, but we don't include them here. Warnings about pornography or images of torture would probably be useful too, as would a phone book listing every phone number in the world, but they have no place here, and -- in principle -- neither should the spoiler tags. They're a warning to readers to dissuade them from learning some specifically selected information on the basis of an editor's own opinions and assumptions about what's best for the readers, things which should not be allowed to influence an article or a readers' absorption of its contents.

In any event, of late it's been proposed that we see if it's possible to set the default presentation of the encyclopedia to "spoiler tags: off," while allowing an option to users to turn them on at their own discretion, in which case they will be choosing to censor themselves rather than editors choosing to do so. While I still find this compromise unsavory, given that it's likely to be the only thing that will allow us to get the unobjective spoiler warnings (and, really, the concept of a warning itself implies that someone's passed their own personal judgement on something and passed that on to who is reading the warning) off of the default presentation of the site without inciting a riot, I'm inclined to support it reluctantly but wisely, I think. Now very strongly opposed to this concept. For the reasons, please see below or this discussion.

It's still baffling to me how a template warning people of images of humans torturing one another gets shot down soundly on the basis of no censorship, but that a template that serves as an intellectual (the concept of warning someone) and visual (it displaces text by an inch) obstacle to information that's supposed to be treated as impartially as the information around it gets endorsed on the basis that it "helps preserve the quality of media products for people." I still believe -- and always will, I imagine -- that the concept and princicples of an encyclopedia should come before subjective courtesies, but if these recent developments can get spoiler warnings off of the default version of the site, then we can at least be making a move to preserve the encyclopedia's integrity. At least until people begin asking for measures for a "pornography free" and "torture free" version, in which case we'll have to comply to prevent holding to a double-standard once again.

Honestly, I think these things should be gone~~, but I can live with them being here so long as they're only seen if the readers force themselves to see them by clicking on a "Show me the spoiler tags!" link or something.~~ Ryu Kaze 23:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm on the fence for this one. I think that a lack of spoiler tags will display that this is not a fictional trivia site (and thus keep excess details away) and put emphasis on the fact that we're here to describe the works. Spoiler tags do show that we are fine with displaying "spoilers" in plot synopses, but at the same time, we're encouraging people to include every detail. Honestly, I think having a heading called "plot synopsis" or "story" (like most articles already have) should be warning enough....— Deckill e r 23:58, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

How about wrapping lots of things (like spoilers/nudity/etc) in some span/div, and provide client-side scripting to hide undesirable elements? People who don't want nudity don't have to see it; poeple could hide spoiler warnings; or hide the spoiler content itself. I know Misplaced Pages isn't censored, but we could at least give people the tools to hide things they don't want to see without removing content and features that others want. (It would make me feel more comfortable browsing Misplaced Pages with my parents in the room.) --Chris (talk) 05:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

It's not a terrible suggestion, but I'm not sure if we should make that decision now, or just ask that the new technical tool be designed so that further content could be added in the future. In any event, it's something we'll need to consider. Now very strongly opposed to this concept. For the reasons, please see below or this discussion. Ryu Kaze 13:27, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm now retracting all previous support for the proposed compromise mentioned earlier. I'm doing so on the grounds that it would not only create grounds for others to ask for similar masks for pornography and images of human torture, but that it would create the opportunity for people to attempt hiding some information behind cleverly-placed spoiler tags. While these would probably be caught by other editors, the fact of the matter is, we shouldn't be allowing such a possibility in the first place. Furthermore, we're an encyclopedia. We shouldn't even ever stop to think about ways to censor information. Ryu Kaze 01:21, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

As I said, we would not be censoring Misplaced Pages, but we would allow each individual to censor his own view of the information. (It would default to hiding nothing, of course.) Censoring Misplaced Pages, and providing people with an option to hide objectionable information are two entirely different things. Misplaced Pages is not paper, and as such can be dynamic. (Editors would be strongly encouraged to leave all filters off, only engaging them when browsing.) --Chris (talk) 01:46, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I also did specifically note "nudity" as a potential category of filterable material. --Chris (talk) 01:50, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

There's too much room for potential misuse of this and too much that would have to also be implemented in order to prevent double-standards from taking place once again. I should never have even suggested this and apologize to everyone for doing so. Creating a means of censorship (whether chosen or not) isn't part of our purpose here. The Misplaced Pages policies page says that our one and only goal is to be an encyclopedia and nothing more. We're not here to babysit or protect people from information. In my quest to establish a compromise on this matter, I created a hole in that and left room for people to actually begin trying to censor things that they simply wanted hidden as much as possible.

Our purpose is to be an encyclopedia. That's it. As Jimbo himself said, if people are scared of plot details, they shouldn't be coming to an encyclopedia. And to quote AMHR285 as I have done so often of late, "Misplaced Pages shouldn't attempt to be a slightly less disruptive version of everyforum.com. It should attempt to be an encyclopedia, and everything else be damned." That's what we're here to do, even as the policies say. We're not here to even consider censorship, self-imiposed or otherwise. We're here to provide information, not mask it from people who are afraid of knowledge. Hypothetical courtesies are not more important than this project's goal and the principles on which that goal is based. Our goal is to build an encyclopedia. Everything else be damned. Ryu Kaze 02:06, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the use of the word "censorship" is way out of place here. First of all, that word generally (not always) applies to some authority forcing someone to do something. Even in the case of nude images, if we decide to take them all out it would be our decision, not some censorship issue. With respect to a spoiler tag, information is not even be removed. To call that "censorship" is very inaccurate. Johntex\ 01:55, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

No, it isn't. Censorship is the unstandarized regulation of information, which can be imposed by an authority (but doesn't have to be) and may include outright exclusion of information (but doesn't need to). Spoiler warnings have been a violation of our policies of neutrality (their purpose is to warn people away from information on the basis of an editor having passed their judgement on that information, and then passing it on to the readers in an attempt to impede their straightforward learning process) and no censorship (this unstandardized regulation is -- obviously -- targed to specific information selected at the editors' discretion, and is then obstructed by way of the intellectual barrier of the warning and the visual impediment of the 1-inch displacement of the text; all intentionally) since day one. They don't contribute to our purpose. They don't aid it in any way. They're just there to suggest that we're not 100% devoted to the neutral, comprehensive sharing of information, and this new concept that I regrettably conceived would involve us actively seeking to find a means to aid in censorship. I truly regret having thought of it and suggested it. I'm sorry to the whole of Misplaced Pages for doing so. May the concept go to hell. Ryu Kaze 02:06, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I can't follow most of what you have written. But your suggestion that somehow having to scroll a few lines down the page constitutes censorship is just a perversion of the definition of censorship. Johntex\ 19:39, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

If that were the entire foundation of my argument, I'd have to agree with you. Given that that was merely an add-on to the rest (the intellectual persuasion, the fact that an editor is passing their own personal judgement and sending it on to the readers in a deliberate attempt to persuade them from reading specifically selected information chosen by the editor theirself based on that editor's opinion of what might be unsuitable for the readers and the fact that other such tags for pornography and images of torture have been shot down on the basis of our policies), I can't see why you're suggesting it's the crux of the matter. Ryu Kaze 21:31, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Disguating

After 2 month of deliberation anyone looking for Apartheid in Misplaced Pages is refred to this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/Apartheid_%28disambiguation%29

This page still refer people to various accusations that are used by political propeganda distributors who took advantage of Misplaced Pages popularity to propegante their message of political terms such as "Islamic Apartheid" and "Israeli Apartheid".

Misplaced Pages is not a dictionary and the only apartheid known so far is the one in South Africa. Zeq 12:39, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

The terms you mention are used by people in the world and therefore are legitimate (short) articles, e.g. "Israeli Apartheid is a term used by critics of Israel to refer to the situation of the Palestinian-Israeli Conflict." Maybe the terms don't justify the length of even a short article, though. Still, if I entered 'Israeli Apartheid' into Misplaced Pages search, I'd want to find out what it means. --Apantomimehorse 03:48, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

There is a big difference between explaning "what it is" and "who use it for what" and the blant turning of wikipedia to what it is wp:not. The violation of wp:not is what disgusting. Zeq 09:46, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Administrators abusing with article Angel Rada

Many venezuelans and Southamerican knew the work of the ethnosonics and electronic musicians, vanguard musicians doesn`t work at the normal celebrity of music , they art is another sphere or atges , please do a revision of Angel Rada Bio , try to do with neutrality it you want some data write me to transmillenium@gmx.net or avrmusic@yahoo.com his record label --200.8.35.108 15:26, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Anittas

Thanks for taking the time to fully explain this situation on my usertalk page. All I said in my comment on User:Xed's page was that I thought something weird was going on... meaning something needing further explanation. Like I said above, thanks for taking the time to exlain it. Whatever problems I think Misplaced Pages might have, I deffinitely do agree with your overall goals, and obviously think thet you have wikipedia's best interest at heart. Easter rising 16:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

The Psychology Wiki

Hi Jim,

I started using Misplaced Pages about 18 months ago, mainly because I am a poor Psychology Student and couldn't afford all the textbooks for my course. I've since started editing wikipedia and am now an Admin on the Psychology Wiki. I don't know if you are aware of us or not, we are the 5th largest Wikia by size/content, but we really need more contributors. Was hoping you could check us out, see what you think, and maybe mention us.

I completely agree with your vision of free knowledge, as does the founder of the Psychology Wiki: Lifeartist. Spreading the knowledge of Psychology and making it an integrated science, for free, to improve society is our goal.

Here is the post I put on the featured wikia nominations page today:

I feel that the Psychology Wiki is in need of some promotion. We are a large wiki in terms of content but small in terms of contributors. We have various plans to promote ourselves through wikipedia, and through psychology on and off the internet, but some more promotion amongst people already familiar with Wiki editing would be very advantageous.

I think that we are perhaps a more serious and knowledge orientated Wiki in comparison with the many fan based Wikis here. Not that I'm knocking those wikis though; the Muppet Wiki rocks!

The Psychology Wiki differs from Misplaced Pages psychology articles in that:

1) It is intended to contain all of the discipline of psychology, like a giant meta-textbook, rather than an Encyclopedia.
2) It will therefore go into much greater technical detail than one would have in an encyclopedia. It will have full academic referencing.
3) It will have user experiences relating to psychology issues on seperate user pages, protected by admins, allowing POV to be expressed on these pages only. The rest of the wiki is NPOV, but expression of personal experience is nessesary and desireable on our wiki.
4) It will have course content pages from academic and clinical courses with links to internal wiki articles.
5) It will be a place for researchers to discuss latest papers etc...

We just need more contributors to make it work! Mostly Zen 21:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

PS All wiki editors should be aware of the psychological phenomena of Social Loafing. It effects new Wikis with few contributors especially.

Wikia.com should not be spammed on Misplaced Pages. Wikia is for profit. Misplaced Pages is not for profit. Please don't compromise the legal standing of Misplaced Pages as a nonprofit charity organization. WAS 4.250 03:17, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

As the a few of the posts here demonstrate...

The current 'entry points' for new readers/editors are in disarray. In particular, the necessary materials for learning mediawiki (beyond the basics, at least) is scattered across media.wikimedia.org, www.mediawiki.org, and the various wikis. I think some executive butt-kicking (or massaging, perhaps) is needed in this area. For starters, I would say there needs to be a clear seperation between learning:

policy, guildlines, practices, organization
mediawiki wikitext

In particular, these two sections need to be both distinctly split into material for new/casual editors and for dedicated editors. While lots of material already reflects this division, there's too many random entry and exit points to and from these materials. What's really needed is more narrative cohesion for (and delineation between) these use cases:

'I want to learn just enough to get started and make heads and tails of this thing.'
'I want to get involved in the community and make contact; how do Wikipedeans communicate?'
'I want to read and discuss the community guildlines, policies, and practices.'
'I want to learn everything about mediawiki so I understand everything I look at, and so I can use best-practices, markup-wise.'

(Perhaps you can think of another.) As it is, the help material is too ad hoc.

Currently, I'm working on a video which teaches complete mediwiki because I think video an easier to digest medium compared to text. Still, I'd also like to work on the Help pages myself, except the root Help materials are edit blocked. Whom should I talk to about these intro materials? Thanks. --Apantomimehorse 03:41, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Find a page that you think is relevant to your concerns and discuss your concerns on its talk page. WAS 4.250 04:31, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

I suppose Help Talk is more appropriate than here (and seems I was wrong about Help being protected), so I'll take this up there, but my general point is that the whole of the Help system is quite out of whack, and I think it needs special executive-level (or perhaps cabal-level) attention, for the learning curve of mediawiki and the wikipedia has steepened. Spiderweb graphs of information are a fine way to present the whole of everything (as an encylopedia does), but they're not fun to encounter for people trying to learn a whole subject matter. Such information needs to be quite rigoursly hierarchical with a strong avoidance of redundancies. --Apantomimehorse 05:14, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Censorship

User:Nandesuka keeps removing the URL http://digg.com/linux_unix/Richard_Stallman_supports_voluntary_pedophilia Richard_Stallman_supports_voluntary_pedophilia as vandalism without consensus. 65.95.60.170 13:19, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Someone's running a smear campaign. No need to link to it. --Carnildo 18:01, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Don't need to censor it just cause you don't like it. Nemoser 03:44, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

The bottom line is, the more outrageous the claim, the better the source needs to be. The claim is pretty far out there in terms of outrageousness, and the source is a random blog. So no, it's not censorship, it's not being idiotic about sources and claims about living people who could be harmed by libel. Mak (talk) 03:46, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

ha ha, actully the source is Richard Stallman's own blog. He's just quoting Richard Stallman. Here's Richard Stallman's exact words "I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children." Nemoser 19:51, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Is 67.119.194.1 your IP Address?

I just saw in the history section of Jimmy Wales that 67.119.194.1 was appearing the most. Is that your IP when you're not logged in? --Pronoun 21:01, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

That's really funny. No, of course that is not me. That is the ip number of a banned user who has been harassing me.--Jimbo Wales 21:37, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Questionable username

Just came across an account by the name of Nropsevolselawobmij (i.e. 'Jimbo Wales loves porn', spelled backwards); this looks to me to be against the username policy, but seeing as it's your name I'll leave it to you to decide whether to act on that. --Calair 04:46, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

How Can I Find OUt If An Article I Started Got Deleted?

The heading says it all? Can anyone help me . . . if so could you post it on my user talk page . . ? Thanks! --Josh, user:POLLUX 15:54, 12 July 2006 (UTC) -reply on talk page --Banana04131 22:13, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Angus

hello,

I believe that you are the owner of wikipedia no. I have understood that your you can clear an administrator of its functions, then this user I want that you see what puts:

http://es.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Votaciones/2006/Sobre_el_n%C3%BAmero_m%C3%ADnimo_de_ediciones_necesarias_para_tener_derecho_a_voto#Propuesta_7_.28angus.29

the author of this message is:es:Usuario:Rossoneri 100%

SMS.ac

You wrote "The site allows members to easily send spam SMS and email messages." That is an extremely bold claim which, if false, could subject you to legal action for libel. You may want to consider making a claim that you know 100% to be true and defensible in court. I would recommend something like "The site allows members to easily send SMS and email messages that some ciritics have characterized as 'spam'. (exact reference, exact reference, etc.)"--Jimbo Wales 16:01, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Wow, Jimbo left me a message. Stifle (talk) 22:43, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Err... anyway, yes, it was not exactly safe. How's this? Stifle (talk) 23:07, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Stifle,

This edit is one I would like you to study, and then discuss with me. I went to the source article to try to find direct textual support for the claim that "Phone users are often billed for supposedly 'free' services that they say they never ordered." I did not find that evidence, because the article nowhere makes that claim. I did find evidence that the edit by the SMS.ac ip number was accurate and fair, i.e., it was a direct quote of the core negative statement on that matter in the article.

This is exactly the sort of sloppiness that I think Wikipedians should avoid. (The edit in question is someone else reverting to your version, but if I read the history correctly, you are the one who wrote it in the first place.) --Jimbo Wales 20:10, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

The quote I took the line from was "At least a handful of consumers, however, have complained on the Internet and in the mainstream press that SMS.ac has charged them for services they never asked for, making that billing relationship into potentially its greatest liability", which is in the cited article, and I added the statement "Phone users are often billed for supposedly 'free' services that they say they never ordered." Perhaps the words "supposedly 'free'" were not the best choice here; if some other part of my edit was what you are referring to, please tell me.

The current wording (revision 63682487) is better still. As you know, it is only by working on the article that we will get it to the best version. However, as I have already erred enough to provoke two callings-on-the-carpet from yourself, as of now I will cease to edit that article entirely. Stifle (talk) 22:47, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

you might want to check this edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=SMS.ac%2C_Inc.&diff=64233174&oldid=64215584 It does not appear to meet your guidance.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.231.54.18 (talk • contribs)

Was removed as "unsourced vitriol". Cheers!--Kchase T 07:33, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

A compliment

I think I have just been paid a compliment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User:Ste4k&diff=prev&oldid=63508109

Ste4k 00:35, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Jimbo Power

When you made the notice about the SMS.ac article. There was a frenzy to improve it. You must be a pretty well know Wikipedian :) Nookdog 03:04, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, and I should be nicer to the people doing it. I am on a bit of a tear lately about improving the quality of such articles.--Jimbo Wales 03:07, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes you don't want a powerful company to get "Upset" ;) Nookdog 03:11, 13 July 2006 (UTC) (wow I got to talk with Jimbo:)

What powerful company?--Jimbo Wales 03:20, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, SMS.ac Inc. Nookdog 03:23, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh by the way, I just joined Campaigns Wikia. It seems to suite my interests very nicely, and I hope to be a part of it. Nookdog 03:27, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I am not worried about SMS.ac. What I care about is quality. I treat all complaints the same way.--Jimbo Wales 03:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Good point. Nookdog 13:08, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello Jimbo Wales! Kind of new here so i'm just dropping by.--ThanosMadTitan23 06:17, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

was this comment on my talk page directed towards me?

Is this comment directed towards me? If so, I'm confused. I've made maximum effort to source all new material added to the article SMS.ac. Themindset 07:29, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I will pay closer attention. Since this IP is commonly making white-wash edits (as well as blanking pages, adding bad-faith speedy tags, etc.) I have not always given its edits the fullest attention. I apologize for my sloppiness. Themindset 20:29, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

If I haven't been clear, I was reverting the IPs edits, I did not write the content you were asking me about (but I reaffirm my intention to pay closer attention when I perform such actions). Themindset 21:04, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

User Themindset trying to corrupt SMS.ac page again.

Themindset is reverting from actual quotes out of the source material to biased NPOV violating rhetoric which is not contained in the text of the source article.

See Talk page for details.

Brandy Alexandre real name and edit

I understand your point, and won't contest it. I'll plead we had good intentions, but know what road is paved with those. :-) I apologize, and will try to be more careful in the future.

However, if you will take a look at the diff of your revert edit, I think you will see that you didn't do what you probably wanted. The edit did 4 things:

restored a now out-of-context comment
removed her date of birth from the box (while leaving it in the article text, and, as far as I understand, it is not controversial)
removed her Forest Lawn experience (which is reported in several of the cited reference sources)
restored a now out-of-context link to Amazon policy

All this did not affect her real name, which, presumably you wanted to remove. The name wasn't on the page when you edited; when it became an issue, it was not put back.

I'm asking to avoid getting in more trouble. Am I correct that you did not intend to do those things? AnonEMouse 13:17, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Right, I just went back to her last version, which I assumed was fine with hers... I did not study it closely. Probably you can do a much better job that I did. :) --Jimbo Wales 18:20, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, fixed. Will try to avoid further trouble for at least the next five minutes. :-) AnonEMouse 18:43, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Portal approval process counter to Misplaced Pages's aims?

Misplaced Pages:Village pump (policy)#Portal approval process counter to Misplaced Pages's aims?

You may want to be aware that some editors are now selecting portals for possible deletion on the grounds that a portal has not been given prior approval: Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Thinking. Concern has been raised that this portal approval process does not have the wide consensus it appears to claim. The self-appointed group make users wait a week for their approval. SilkTork 15:52, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Reeves Guy

I am Reeves Guy and Wales has been more understanding than anybody else, the point now is, to make him believe it was makemi, herostratus and few other administrative vandals who made things worse, not me and worse... releasing names of my former club, people who have nothing to do with this, great detectives you all are, when I improved paul bern site with correct bio, same for rocky, corrected links, that was reversed, then it was reversed again after I was prooven right, but nobody said anything... as usual!

Anti-Credentialism

Mr. Wales: I have read about your ideas about anti-credentialism, and how you feel that anyone should be able to contribute knowledge, etc. I agree that Misplaced Pages is a wonderful idea. It is commendable to want to allow everyone access to the sum of all human knowledge. However, until the words of certified experts are acknowledged and encouraged, I don't know if this great experiment will be truly successful. To often I see people with the correct knowledge have their edits reverted because of a clique didn't want the article to say it or it didn't follow "consensus." Sometimes the group is simply wrong. I really enjoy the site and participating, but until these issues are addressed, I refuse to use this site for anything besides keeping up whats happening on my favorite TV shows and Comic Books. If I am incorrect about any aspect of your philsophy regarding Misplaced Pages, please correct me. Thanks.--Wakefencer 23:55, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Stifle's unilateral indef block

Jimbo,

I need your opinion. The result of Arbcom's examination into Jason Gastrich's behavior was a 1 year ban. However, User:Stifle has taken it upon himself to extend that to an indef block. I find this very odd and even inappropriate.

Here is the link that he cited, in his defense: http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive39#Jason_Gastrich . Please examine the situation and give your input. An indef block is VERY serious and it seems that Stifle has taken it upon himself to perform one, after Arbcom made an alternate ruling.

Regards, Martian Man4 08:02, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Stifle put his indef block up for review on AN/I, where it was unanimously endorsed. Powers 15:57, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Admins love idefinite blocks. Not 10 years, not 100, not 10000000000000000, but for eternity!!! An indefinite block is like saying to a user, "Make a new account," and they do. DyslexicEditor 20:05, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Urgent - For Your Eyes, Sir

Dear Jimbo Wales. I think that “this” Proposed Guidelines for Editing Freemasonry Related Articles must come direct to you – as Admin seen unwilling to look objectively at it. If you want to “Block” me as a “Sock” as well, then go ahead, but I think the issue stands on its own. Thanks for your time, in good faith for the Wiki project, My 42 is in (Base 13) 22:24, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Request for help from 14 year old user

I think this goes beyond admin responsibility and needs to be looked at by OFFICE. The following is copied from Administrators Noticeboard. Tyrenius 03:01, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Really need to look into.

I got a message from 24.192.44.141 which really scared me. I believe that this user is a predater and needs to be blocked immediately. Karrmann 07:11, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Blocked IP for a month, left an abuse report for investigation Misplaced Pages:Abuse_reports#24.192.44.141 abakharev 07:41, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Forgive me if I'm being clueless, but unless 'edsel' is a euphemism for 'penis' or something (and as far as I can see he's referring to the picture of the Ford Edsel car on Karrmann's user page), I don't see how this qualifies as stalking. He didn't say "I know where you live and I'm coming to see you". --Sam Blanning 15:15, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
- I was probably an over-reaction from my side, the user sent me E-mail explaining the situation. He really owns the vintage car and seems to act with the best intentions. I have unblocked him and removed my abuse report abakharev 04:50, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

The best of intentions in asking to meet a fourteen year old boy? A case of AGF gone awry - air on the side of caution, here. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 04:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

It is irresponsible to ignore a request for protection from a 14 year old who has received an inappropriate message. It is not usual for blatant requests for meetings to to be posted on wikipedia. 24.192.44.141 could see that Karrmann was 14 as it states it on his user page, where the message was also posted, not on the talk page. At the bottom of the message was the request "Please delete after you read this." The user did say, "I know where you live", to be precise: "I live near you (Detroit area)". It is no wonder that Karrmann is frightened. The user who posted this message either has untoward intentions or is incredibly naive. Whichever way round, such a message is inappropriate, and would be interpreted with great suspicion by most people. It would certainly not look good if it got wider publicity (which is not unlikely with wiki watching sites) and could be very damaging for wikipedia. I suggest the block is reinstated and also the abuse report. This has to be taken seriously. The euphemism mention does not help, and, if Karrmann's (understandable) fears that he has been contacted by a predator are true, it is hardly likely that a predator would announce his intentions blatantly. The edit summary for this invitation to meet is "Vandal hunting". It is also the user's only edit. Tyrenius 02:47, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

"Vandal hunting" is the name of the section that he edited. --Chris (talk) 05:23, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I've heard complaints in the past that pedophiles like to edit articles to make them pro-pedophilia and it's a problem. I haven't looked into it so I don't know how accurate it is, but the pedo problem doesn't seem as bad on wikipedia as most of the internet (especially anime posting boards). DyslexicEditor 17:34, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm starting to think I'm alone in seeing the concern over this as a rather panicky overreaction. For the record, I'll state that I'm uninvolved in this situation, other than as an observer & commentator. Alex Bakharev has already acted immediately to block the user until the situation could be investigated. After he gathered the facts, he unblocked the user, even before I finished inquiring about the block. The user said nothing other than that they lived in the same metro area (them and about 1 million other people) and that his car, pictured on Karrmann's userpage, was available if Karrman wanted to see it. On that page, Karrman states once that his age is 14, and several times that he drives one car or another. At the least, Karrman's talkpage gave mutiple messages about his age. However, without there having been a specifically inappropriate message, I'm not sure how much the age matters. The comment could be interpreted badly, but I really see this as a classic example of the need to assume good faith not only in article edits.

The discussion of this issue has bounced from WP:AN to WP:AR to Alex Bakharev with a sidetrip into User talk:24.192.44.141. We are building a fear-fueled Chinese wall between adults & youth, both here in the project & in society as a whole. Growing up, I knew nearly every adult in my neighborhood, spent time with some of them, even visited their houses unescorted. I emerged unscarred & unmolested. Karrman & Alex Bakharev both exercised extreme caution in this situation. However, the situation has been considered in several fora, investigated by the blocking admin, and resolved. Where is the remaining issue? And why isn't it an issue of dispute resolution, if there is some dispute with respect to this action, rather than (another) discussion in Jimbo Wales' talk page? --Ssbohio 14:26, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

The first thing Karrmann says on his user page extremely prominently is that he is 14. It is at best a bad lapse of judgement for an adult to contact a 14 year old in this way and to suggest meeting. At the very least he should have asked Karrmann to let his parents know. Instead the user ends the message "Please delete after you read this." It is the first and only edit from that IP address, and the user has not come forward to offer a public explanation to reassure us or Karrmann. Karrmann has obviously been badly frightened by this, and it is a duty of care towards him to show that we are taking this seriously. I don't think this is something that admins were chosen to deal with and it at least needs to be known about at a higher level of the Foundation. This is not building a fear-fuelled wall between adults and youth. That already exists in society when an adult stranger suggests meeting a youth in this way, and also wishing to hide evidence of that suggestion. The fact is that Karrmann is seeking the help of adults he trusts, in order to protect him and make him feel safe over one he doesn't. He is entitled to know that he can do this, and it will be taken seriously, not trivialised as "a rather panicky overreaction". I'm not panicking: I am exercising caution and due diligence. Tyrenius 01:20, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I would like to thank you all for your concern. REblock the user, and that will be good. I also have my page protected. I am also with assuming good faith, because to see the Edsel userbox, he would have missed where I told my age. Karrmann 01:48, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

A short little question

Hey Jimbo. Before I say I say anything, this is one fine website you got here. :) Okay, the question. Well, on your infobox, you have three userboxes. I thought it would be a good idea to put some userboxes in my infobox. However, when I did get around to doing it, all of my ID box content was shifted up, so it wasn't centered, and it created a thick grey line between the info and ID content. Can you tell me why? And, if it's not to much trouble, can you tell me how to fix it so the ID content is centered? Because right now, it looks less than fabulous. Check out my userpage so you can see what I'm talking about. Thanx for reading, Jimbo. Scrumshus 18:10, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Sanyo MM7500

I'm impressed with the quality of the photos you've been able to get out of a 1.3 megapixel camera phone. I have a similar camera on my HTC Apache, but the quality that I'm getting is nowhere near what you've posted on your flickr site. What's your secret? :-) —Viriditas | Talk 09:23, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

First, I try to delete the crappy ones. Second, light light light. The camera performs poorly in the dark. For example. My phone has a little "flash" on it... really just a sort of bright LED that somewhat sucks but is better than nothing. I use this pretty much all the time unless I am really in broad daylight or the subject is too far away for it to matter.--Jimbo Wales 16:13, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the tips. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your photos. Your comment about broad daylight seems to have hit home, as that is the main problem that I'm having. —Viriditas | Talk 03:07, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I am sorry

I am sorry if I have seemed harsh.

Notice how very different the two lines are. "A handful of customers" complaining becomes "Phone users are often billed"... this makes at least two errors... one of numbers, and one of accepting the allegations of a few customers as fact. Another major error, which you have identified yourself, is that somehow "charged for services they never asked for" becomes an implication that the services were "supposedly free". It is this kind of reaching beyond what the source tells us, in order to reach a POV conclusion, that should never happen.--Jimbo Wales 20:21, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I've stopped editing the article because I am unable to maintain neutrality on it due to my own strong POV, and this is preferable to any other outcome. Stifle (talk) 13:02, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

You know

.. you should actually sometimes create some other nick, try editing some pages with a newbie/not so NPOV style and you will see how you'll get bitten. After you get bitten, go to some WP talkpage and propose a new, maybe a little bit stupid policy, for instance, strip admins of some of their priviledges. You will be lucky if you don't get blocked. Azmoc 14:00, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Anyone can edit

It appears not. At least one of your administrators, ChrisO, categorically rejects the opinions of those who edit under an IP code only, as though they're second class users (regardless of the fact that most 'registered' users are entirely anonymous to us all).

In fact I support the comment up this page that you have anarchy here, largely because editors/administrators on the broad Left have an extremely clear agenda, however much they try to dress it up.

Look at the catalogue of well-known UK traditional conservatives who have been deleted in a concerted campaign: Dr.Mark Mayall, Andrew V R Smith, Stuart Millson, Sam Swerling, Anthony Murphy, to name but a few. Every imaginable excuse has been raised by 'the gang' in this campaign. What hope for a balanced set of biograpies right across the political spectrum on Misplaced Pages. I think the very least you could do is to place a template on the Misplaced Pages Home Page telling editors not to waste their time researching and writing articles which The Left are opposed to because they will he deleted. Is there any real control or is Misplaced Pages firmly in the hands of The Left? 81.131.11.32 19:59, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is not controlled by any single point of view. The information it contains is based on the knowledge and interests of those who are motivated to contribute. Some might be motivated from "leftist" type motivations like those Christ promoted - love, share, forgive. Others might be paid by sponsors (CIA, GM, anyone with money who sees wikipedia as just another propaganda opportunity). This might provide a rightwing slant as the rightwing is the group with money. Some might just like to show off what they know. Some might get an emotional high from sharing knowledge. Some might get off pushing others around. Some might be here to find friends (but we are not myspace). We are simply too open to be controlled by any one faction. WAS 4.250 23:02, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

But small spaces can be controlled by a group of "meat puppets". I think that is the accusation here. --Blue Tie 00:44, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

C-class bios

Well, you may want to contact WikiProject Biography, as they're the ones who made the assessment. Also, it was assessed by the WikiProject using this scale, which uses a distributed rating system to help push things along for the mythical 1.0... Tito xd 20:08, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Userboxes/Beliefs

I noticed that you recently PROD'd Misplaced Pages:Userboxes/Beliefs. I ask this as a straightforward and not as a rhetorical question: what is the best location to collect and organize all userboxes, if not Misplaced Pages:Userboxes? My understanding of GUS was that now that we're not cluttering template space, those of us who think that userboxes are necessary to NPOV would be allowed to maintain an organized userbox library, as we were before. (P.S. If Cyde or someone other than Jimbo who knows what (s)he's talking about wants to reply, that's fine. I don't need an answer from Jimbo per se, I just need an official answer so that I can go about my business knowing that the debate is over and done with).--M @r ē ino 20:27, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

"Userboxes are necessary to NPOV"? That's an extremely bizarre notion. More like "Userboxes are a very strong indicator that the person wearing them as badges of pride have no interest in, nor understanding of, NPOV." Well, that is a matter for a different argument.

The main thing is that these absurdities have to be removed as soon as is peacefully possible completely out of any and all official namespaces. The most important thing is to send a strong signal that this kind of divisive, factionalistic behavior is tolerated in the name of diversity and kindness, but in no way approved of or encouraged by the real community of Wikipedians, as opposed to random "myspacers".--Jimbo Wales 21:27, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. I appreciate getting the official opinion from you, and I'll respect it.

I am quite aware that my views on userboxes are out of the mainstream, so to explain (without really hoping to convince anyone; that ship has sailed): I believe that a person can only be neutral and dispassionate after first accepting and admitting his biases and passions. Failing to flag my biases would, in my mind, be fooling myself. For example, I get very hotheaded when discussing race, so I keep the "racial equality" userbox on my page to remind myself (and others) that most people don't take these matters as personally as I do. Hopefully, it reminds me to calm down and accept others, and warns others that they might be dealing with a passionate person. I also have opinions on, say, sports teams and foreign languages, but I usually don't post those userboxes because my views on those matters are trivial and don't affect my work on articles.

On the other hand, I'm quite aware that some Wikipedians have been abusing userboxes as a way to encourage divisiveness, as well as do silly things like use Misplaced Pages as a free webhost. So if the Misplaced Pages:Userboxes/Beliefs page is going to die as a result, I understand that the debate on that one is over. If it's OK, though, I might create a page like User:Mareino/Userboxes/Beliefs so that I or anyone else who's interested can keep a organized library of all userboxes of a given genre, rather than just listing only the userboxes that match my own beliefs.--M @r ē ino 22:10, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Foodsnacks

I've got some extra foodsnacks, and I was wondering if they'd be any use to WikiMedia foundation. Take it easy! --Steve-o 22:33, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Fan Mail

I think wikipedia is great and I thank you for creating it and holding well to the standards. It is sort of a miracle and makes me pleased to acknowledge that I am in the same species as so many other human beings -- even those I do not agree with. Thanks again. --Blue Tie 00:42, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

9th archive

Hi Jimbo! I created a 9th archive for your talk page. Just letting you know. —this is messedrocker (talk) 03:00, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Dear Sir

Dear Sir,

I would like to bring to your attention what I consider heavy handedness on the part of an administrator. Please reference the discussion in relationship to myself and SCEhard T The dispute relates to my uploading an image, a mistake I admit but as I explained to the administrator a light-hearted yet admittedly misguided attempt to add some levity to a topic others were becoming too serious and combative about. In response I received an aggressive message on my talk page threatening me with blocking and the direction not to remove said message. I went ahead and did so as I believed a more civil response was approriate and made this clear to said admin. But again I received an even more aggressive uncivil message. It is unacceptable for Administrators to act in this way. Their intentions may be good but their arrogant attitude is ridiculous. I do not want to be blocked merely on the whim of an administrator who decided to take an overly aggressive response to my actions. Thank-you for your time.

AntonioBu 05:33, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

stuff copied to my talk page

Thx, I had already read it over on Nagle's page. Was there something you wanted me to come away with? I invite you to watch the ongoing article over at SMS.AC, basically all the wikipedians are contributing, but the IP address is rephrasing absolutely everything to suit his/her own desires. I'm doing my best to write absolutely sourced neutral info, but the IP is constantly distorting the criticism section so it doesn't even seem like criticism at all... it's frustrating. Themindset 07:35, 17 July 2006 (UTC)