Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 14:08, 21 July 2006

I would like if this guy's name was mentioned in more pages, but perhaps he isn't that important? The only proper article page linking here is : Autism rights movement.

--Fred-Chess July 1, 2005 10:15 (UTC)

Lanced?

Should it say "launched" instead of "lanced"? It's not too clear from the context. To me, "lanced" would mean skewered, i.e. decisively defeated; this seems to be the opposite of what the article is saying, and is also the opposite of what I get out of his book on Asperger syndrome. If nothing else it's unencyclopedic, and the whole sentence in which it appears could be a great deal clearer.

(Speaking of Asperger's, the above person who complained about Gillberg not being mentioned enough will be pleased to know that he is prominently mentioned on Asperger's Syndrome in at least two different contexts.) PurplePlatypus 21:11, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

This change has (correctly) been made previously. "Lance" in English is here a faux ami to the Swedish word "lansera," which means to launch or introduce. --Tkynerd 19:20, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Intro

The article in BMJ doesn't support these claims at all. Gillberg was accused of fraud by a sociologist. The accusations were dismissed by the investigation committee as being without merit.

Did you read both the BMJ links? The investigation is still ongoing and Gillberg now has criminal convictions. Your approach to editing this article is ill-considered. I have again reverted your changes. Your way of acting is inappropriate for Misplaced Pages. —Daphne A 20:30, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes of course I've read these articles. The conviction had nothing to do with accusations of scientific misconduct. It was for refusing to comply with a court order. A lower administrative court had ordered Gillberg and his colleagues to hand over patient data to the sociologist and her friend (in their private capacities). (The decision was based on the Principle of Public Access.) Gillberg and the others refused to comply in order to protect the privacy of their patients. There is no ongoing investigation of misconduct. There has in fact never been any such investigation since the accusations were found to be without merit. Perhaps you should be a bit more careful with your own accusations?

Denis Diderot 21:02, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

The allegations of fraud were made by Eva Kärfve and Leif Elinder. While they have drawn a lot of attention to it, it must be stated that neither are educated neurologists -- Kärfve and Elinder critized Gillberg's research on the basis of their own theoretical and practical experience with children -- the associates of Gillberg did not bother greatly formulating a response, and Gillberg himself has not bothered at all.

It is now not possible, and it will never be possible, to research the scientific basis and the possibility of fraud of the research, as Gillberg's associates have destroyed all material of the study.

Fred-Chess 23:14, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

My previous comments were made in a hurry, so I'd like to clarify a bit. There was never any serious investigation into possible scientific misconduct, but there was of course some preliminary investigation to determine whether Elinder's and Kärfve's accusations deserved to be taken seriously. Among other things, the researchers and the research coordinator were interviewed. Gillberg and Rasmussen, the two researchers specifically accused by Kärfve, formulated a detailed response. After this preliminary investigation, the committee declared they they hadn't found any reason to suspect scientific misconduct.

Denis Diderot 13:19, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Recent changes with POV on integrity

Denis Diderot has been made changes to this article recently. Those changes included deleting relevant factual statements, then claiming that the statements were "false". I initially assumed that he had not read the references, but it now appears (from his remarks in other Talk), that this assumption was incorrect. In other words, he deleted statements that he knew to be true—so his claim that the statements were "false" must have been dishonest.

One such deletion, of an entire paragraph in the Introduction, was labelled "minor", when it obviously was not.

The article was previously included in the category "Scientific misconduct". Gillberg was formally accused of scientific misconduct; most of the evidence was then destroyed before it could be independently examined (bringing investigations to a halt); a Swedish court found Gillberg guilty of crimes for such destruction. It is obvious from this that people researching scientific misconduct might be interested in the Gillberg case. Yet Denis Diderot deleted the Gillberg article from the category.

All of this apparently stems from Denis Diderot have the POV that Gillberg is certain to be innocent of wrongdoing. This POV is far from being held by all people.

I have restored the factual statements to the article. I have tried to make the wording NPOV, but perhaps others might think that I have not succeeded. Denis Diderot, you (and anyone else) are welcome to reword the presentation of factual material. You may not, however, delete facts: continuing to do so will lead to mediation/arbitration.

I hope that we can find wordings of the statements that are mutually agreeable. If not, there are still ways of making the article have NPOV. For example, the article might state something like "Some people interpret these facts as indicating that ...; other people, however, believe that ....".

Please stick with the principles of Misplaced Pages. —Daphne A 06:54, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Daphne, you're probably right that my first edit shouldn't have been marked as "minor". I'm sorry about this mistake.

Here is a detailed reply to your comments above:

A. Please stop accusing me of various things, and please respect official Misplaced Pages policies.

B. There was never any "Gillberg case".

C. I don't know what you mean by "formally accused of scientific misconduct", but with any reasonable interpretation your statement is false.

D. No "evidence" was destroyed since there was no case. If there had been a case, the required evidence (the list of participants) would still be available.

E. The accusations had already been independently examined by the appropriate body. The accusations were dismissed as completely baseless.

F. The investigations were not brought to a halt since there were no investigations.

G. Your statements are clearly not "agreeable" since they are false, defamatory, and contradicted by the sources.

Denis Diderot 22:59, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

As stated above, I am requesting mediation/arbiration. This is in accordance with Misplaced Pages polices on Dispute resolution. Under those policies, mediation should be attempted first. Mediation, however, can only work if you are willing to take part, to be honest, and to be honourable. Please indicate whether or not you are willing to do that. If not, I will request arbitration. You might consider that in either case, you are taking up time from other people, as well as myself.
In the meantime, I will restore the article and add some detail. —Daphne A 14:08, 21 July 2006 (UTC)