Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 06:17, 22 July 2006

This user is unimaginably annoying and frustrating to even think about. I really don't want to post here. They are combative, unable to fathom that other entities have their own minds and viewpoints, and highly emotionally unstable. Misplaced Pages is WP:NOT a place to get therapy for oppositional defiant disorder. --mboverload@ 00:57, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

The summary of Ste4k's actions, while generally quite fair, does omit the fact that certain users have been rather provocative towards Ste4k as well. Like I said earlier , for example, Andrew Parodi seemed to have a knack for knowing how to irritate Ste4k. But that being said, there are two rules for functioning smoothly in civilization: do not offend, and do not be easily offended. Unfortunately, Ste4k seems to be extremely quick to take offense, and seems to take the worst interpretation of any ambiguities in others' statements, rather than asking for clarification or assuming good faith. Kickaha Ota 01:40, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Let me also say that I strongly object to the reference to WP:DICK in "Applicable policies and guidelines". First of all, it's neither a policy nor a guideline, as it very clearly says. Second, it implies that Ste4k's being intentionally provocative, and I'm not convinced that that's the case -- I think it may just be in Ste4k's nature to read the worst possible motive into people's written words and respond accordingly. Kickaha Ota 01:52, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Good points about the policy and guideline thing. However see the below section. Instead of just reverting and explaining why her talk page had to be unreadable to other editors (this was never referenced or explained), she went on a drama-rampage instead of just reverting it. It had an easy solution, but she had to be a WP:DICK --mboverload@ 01:55, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

• "Don't be a dick" is the fundamental rule of all social spaces.

In some respects, WP:DICK is the most important rule we have. -Will Beback 03:58, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Like most of you, I have no personal problem with Ste4k, although I endorse the basis here. The best outcome for Ste4k would be for her to not take any of this as a personal attack. It is not, but she certainly won't move beyond this RfC so long as she thinks it is (and she seems to). I think right editing at Misplaced Pages is using common sense before applying policy. "Will the content I'm adding help Misplaced Pages's readers?", "Will the content I'm removing help Misplaced Pages's readers?", "Why?", "What for?". Don't stop at Policy. Question. Policy means nothing without asking these questions. More accurately, Policy means nothing but furthering an alienating POV without asking these questions, which then means nothing. —Antireconciler ◊ talk 04:55, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Response

Ste4k doesn't have any claim about "distruptive edits to the talk page". She could have easily reverted and explained why instead of making it into a drama-thon. --mboverload@ 01:51, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Note on authorship

In her response Ste4k repeatedly addresses me directly as the author of this RfC. However four other editors also contributed. The edit history may be found at User:Will Beback/Sandbox. To some extent it is the expression of everyone who has signed on as a certifier. It would be wrong to view this as the perspective of only one person. -Will Beback 01:58, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Definitely. Her comments on the "Description" section, for example, reference several statements added by me. I agree that this RfC represents the views of all who've endorsed it. --Nscheffey 02:12, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Is this RfC formatted appropriately?

The RfC instructions seem to say that the people who certify an RfC must have tried to resolve the same dispute, not multiple disputes involving the same user. This RfC involves a number of distinct grievances, and it's not clear which dispute(s) each certifier is claiming involvement with. Kickaha Ota 02:01, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

It's more about the patern of behaviour and attitude, with multiple large examples of evidence. I think that's what it is anyway. --mboverload@ 02:06, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Should I annotate my endorsement with reference to my specific interaction? --MichaelZimmer (talk) 02:07, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree that since this is about her overall behavior it is appropriate to cite multiple examples of same. --Nscheffey 02:15, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the RfC is over Ste4k's behavior across the project. -Will Beback 03:42, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Gender

I finally got a chance to read this. The RfC says that Ste4k is a male, Rross, on the basis of the two names sharing an IP address, Rross's pattern of edits on Usenet, the reverts on Curse and other unspecified evidence. Ste4k claims this is her husband or teenage son. This would seem a reasonable explanation. Is there any evidence to contradict her explanation? If so, it should be provided. The RfC implies that Ste4k's identity as a male is well-established. JChap (talk • contribs) 02:51, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't say that Ste4k is a male. It states that Rrock is referred to as a male and has a masculine first name, and that Ste4k identifies as female. I don't think the point here is whether Ste4k is being forthright about her gender, but rather her reaction when other editors use a universal male pronoun. --MichaelZimmer (talk) 02:57, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I take that back. The RFC does make a claim as to Ste4k's gender:"To assume a different gender and then complain when mistaken for the actual gender is drama-queen behavior" Well, IMO the issue still should only be an editor's reaction to a good-faith usage of a universal pronoun. --MichaelZimmer (talk) 03:02, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

But the statement is still an accusation: either Ste4k is transgendered or is trying to perpetuate a hoax. (Or in the words of the RfC, "it seems unlikely that this is a good faith gender re-assignment. Combined with the edit warring over fraudulent material, it calls the user's good faith into question and appears to be another case of trolling.") This should either be proven or withdrawn. JChap (talk • contribs) 03:14, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

"Rrock" has a male name and uses 72.128.30.205. Ste4k identifies as a female and uses 72.128.30.205. Ste4k claims that Rrock is her husband. Even if that is all true, Ste4k has still perpetrated a fraud on Misplaced Pages, by edit warring over inappropriate material created by someone using her computer. The time difference between the Ste4k posting the info and Rrock announcing the material was 6 minutes.

As for the identity of Rrock/Ste4k, both people claim to have had 30-year careers in systems administration, both specializing in VMS. All of this adds up to a set of coincidences which exceed my credulity. On the other side, all we have is Ste4k's assertion, with no evidence. If there is any evidence to the contrary I'd be happy to review the situation. -Will Beback 03:39, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you about the insertion of material. As to identity, you are right that this is quite a string of coincidences (and let me emphasize that I have no way of knowing what happened) but to be fair to Ste4k, each of these is explainable. The diff on the first edit listed the IP address as the editor, not Ste4k, so it is possible that it was Rrock who made that edit. (This of course doesn't excuse/explain her subsequent edit-warring over the fraudulent material.) As for she and Rrock having 30-year careers in the same field: it is common for husband and wife to be about the same age and to work in the same field (although not necessarily in the same subspeciality). She did send me an e-mail a few days ago; her signature and her Road Runner e-mail address each contain the same female name. JChap (talk • contribs) 04:27, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Normally a user's real life identity would not be a concern, but Ste4k has discussed her gender, her profession, and her ailments, and antagonized other users over them. But the insertion of fraud, whether the source is herself or himself, is the most important issue, and one which she hasn't addressed. -Will Beback 05:20, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Maybe this could be streamlined. I agree that her over-reaction to people referring to her as "he" is evidence of trollish behavior, and that her edit war over Curse was unacceptable. Maybe we should move the over-reaction diffs to "Takes offense easily" under General problems, leave the Curse issue to the Curse section, and remove the gender section. Would this make things more straightforward? --Nscheffey 06:17, 22 July 2006 (UTC)