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Category:Non-talk pages that are automatically signed

June 16

Kegs vs. Cans

While having dinner with some friends last night, someone said that an unopened can of beer would float. This led us into a short conversation about the difference between kegs and cans of beer. Not the taste but the physical differences. I've done some Googling and have found some information about the taste and the difference in pasteurization (kegs aren't while cans are, unless you read our article on draught beer which contradicts everything else I've read thus far).

The question remains though, is there a physical difference as far as the way they are filled and sealed, more specifically with how they are pressurized. This is what I understand thus far. Please correct me if I'm wrong and let me know if I'm right about any of it, please.

• Cans have CO2 (and possibly nitrogen) in them under pressure.
• Kegs have the same CO2/nitrogen in them but they also have a pump to keep the pressure up in order to be able to get the beer out.

So, essentially, there is no difference between the two, right?

BTW, the first sentence of the second paragraph of Draught beer#Keg beer is a fragment. Thanks, Dismas| 13:51, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

I suspect that the reason unopened beer cans float is because they aren't filled to the top with beer. If they were, they would spill when you opened them. The gas at the top makes them float. If they were completely full, then the beer would have about the same density as water, and the aluminum in the can would make it sink. StuRat (talk) 15:17, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Keg beer would normally be pasteurised in the UK, one of the reasons that the Campaign for Real Ale was successful in winning people away from it, and I'm pretty sure that keg lager all over Europe would be pasteurised, except perhaps for some microbrewery beers. Itsmejudith (talk) 15:46, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Agreed: in British terms, "keg beer" generally means pasteurised and carbonated, whereas "cask conditioned" means unpasteurised with the internal pressure being provided by the ongoing fermentation ("real ale"), even though the actual container is usually the same. Note that alcohol is less dense than water so it adds to the overall buoyancy, but I suspect that the main agent is the carbon dioxide which is in suspension until you open the can. Some canned ales and stouts have a widget which makes the texture more like draught beer (and that floats too). Alansplodge (talk) 12:23, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Why don't hotels abolish checkout and take the money from credit cards using CNP transactions?

When I stayed in a hotel a few weeks ago, I did a checkout using CNP because I had forgotten the PIN of the card I wanted to use. That was possible, you just give the card to the front desk employee and he/she will type the card number in the machine and proceed with the usual CNP transaction. I asked about that a few days earlier and they checked that someone who is authorized to charge cards this way would be present.

I then wondered why hotels in general have a checkout routine when they can always charge cards using the CNP procedure later using the card that was used to reserve the hotel with? That would save a lot of time for the front desk employees and the guests who can just pack their bags and leave without having to stand in line at the front desk. Count Iblis (talk) 14:32, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Since I don't work in the hotel or credit card industry, I'm going to guess from my Googling that CNP means "Card Not Present". That said, this is the way it's been done in quite a few hotels that I've stayed in over the last 5 years or so. When I wake up on the day of my checkout, there is a bill that has been slid under the door. On it somewhere it explains that these charges are going to be made to the credit card on file and that I can just leave the card keys on the nightstand. In the same time frame, I haven't gone to the front desk to check out except in a handful of cases. Dismas| 14:40, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

1) One obvious problem is that if you don't check-out they don't know when you are gone. They could just wait until check out time, knock on the door, and enter if you don't answer, but this has some problems. You might not hear them if you decided to stay another day or check out late, and are asleep, or in the shower, or on the toilet. Also, if you leave early they would like to know this, so they can clean the room early and have in ready for early check-ins. They could have some type of switch you flip in the room to indicate you have checked out (maybe dial some code on the phone).

2) And check-out is a good time to resolve any disputed charges. Let's say you were charged for a bottle of champagne you didn't get. They can send down the person who delivered it and he can say "No, that's not the person I delivered it to, I must have put down the wrong room number". Hard to do this once you have left. And when you do sign that credit card receipt, that makes it much harder to dispute the bill later, which they like.

3) Check-out is a good time to get guest feedback. Yes, they can have cards to fill out in the room, but many people won't bother with those, who will give an opinion in person. I just did so when checking out a couple weeks ago. Now they know their freezer doesn't freeze, phone doesn't work, and they have bugs in the bathroom, so they can fix this for the next guest. StuRat (talk) 15:09, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Some hotel chains don't have checkouts, typically in the budget ranges. The Accor group, one of the world's largest, would have checkouts in their mid market hotels like Mercure but none in Ibis Budget or Formule 1. It would be the same with some of their competitors in Europe. Itsmejudith (talk) 15:34, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

This might work in the US, but in Europe, where most people are sensible and use debit cards or cash, you'd still have to be there to put in you PIN. Having said that, most hotels I stay in these days I prepay anyway. 82.21.7.184 (talk) 08:30, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Debit cards are "sensible"? Since when? You're just begging to be hacked and have your bank account drained. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 08:55, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Debit cards are no less secure than credit cards. You still have to know the PIN to use them. --Viennese Waltz 08:57, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Getting the pin is child's play for either kind. The difference is that your own money is more vulnerable with a debit card. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 09:05, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Erm what on Earth are you talking about? Credit card fraud is rife here, whereas debit card fraud is very rare. It is by no means 'child's play' to get a PIN, how do you propose to do this? Your money is pretty much utterly safe with a debit card unless you're a complete numpty. Guess the rules may be different in the US. Besides, I just buy things when I have to money to do so, credit just seems like a waste of money to me. It's called financial prudence. Fgf10 (talk) 17:42, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Typically the PIN is embedded in the card's magnetic stripe, right? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 08:15, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

No. --Viennese Waltz 08:29, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

That's a strange intervention. I'm in Europe and I use credit cards all the time. If your belief that use of credit cards is not sensible is because you think people should not be running up credit, well I usually pay my cc bill off in full each month, and besides a credit card is a useful way of spreading the cost of large items of expenditure. Plus, I frequently travel abroad on business, where my debit card is useless and I have no wish to carry around great bundles of cash. --Viennese Waltz 08:53, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

In Britain the point about credit cards is that if the merchant with whom you contracted lets you down you can get your money back from the credit card company. 5.150.92.19 (talk) 08:49, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

12 volt wiring. How to do a T join.

Are there any decent guides or videos out there on how to wire a T. I can't seem to find many. The semantics are difficult, but I dont want to join two wire ends. I want to join one wire end on to an existing unbroken wire.

Mind you I dont have a solder, so some type of connector or clever wiring would be ideal.

This appears to be how it's done manually: T-splice. (They omitted covering all the exposed wiring afterwards with electrical tape (they just said the connection), but that seems like a reasonable precaution.) They said to solder it together, but I've done splices with just braiding and tape. It's important to have a long length of braiding, to increase the contact area. Otherwise poor contact can lead to sparking and heating. StuRat (talk) 19:33, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

There are splice-crimp connectors, such as this one (the first I found on a web search; I have no options on the manufacturer nor retailer). They allow two wires to be electrically spliced together, with only a pair of pliers, and a steady pair of hands. Simply place the connector over the middle of one wire, and the end of the other. You will need to buy the appropriate sized connector for the diameter of the wire you are splicing. LongHairedFop (talk) 20:20, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

They're called "Scotchlok" connectors in the UK (a genericized trademark - the original Scotchlok™ connectors are made by 3M). However, Scotchlok redirects to Twist-on wire connector, without being mentioned on that page - the redirect may be wrong (Insulation-displacement connector might be a better target, in default of an article on this specific type of connector), or "Scotchlok" may be used somewhere else in the world for a brand of twist-on connectors; asking for a "Scotchlok connector" in the USA may therefore not prove successful. Tevildo (talk) 22:35, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

A generic name would be I.e. "Quick Splice Terminal"; or search auto part stores for "wire connector" and you'll find them.--TMCk (talk) 00:29, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

"T-tap" is another common term, that's what I found them as when I was doing a wiring project on my car to splice one wire onto another without actually cutting the second one. See here for example. All you do is strip off a bit of the wire you need to tap into, jam that into the metal tab, close the plastic case, then crimp the connector it comes with on the end of the other wire and hook it up. Works great. RegistryKey 08:54, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Don't strip off any insulation as it will weaken the tensile strength of the wire.--TMCk (talk) 00:53, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

@--TMCk The bit of wire that the T-tap wraps around needs to have insulation stripped, otherwise there's no metal-to-metal contact to complete the circuit. See here and here. Those shown claim they automatically strip the needed insulation around the contact to expose the bare wire, but in my experience that didn't happen and I had to strip some insulation off then clamp on the connector to make my circuit work. As to tensile strength, this is an electrical connection, why would you be putting physical loads or moving stresses that would change tension on a piece of electrical wire to begin with? RegistryKey 06:26, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

@RegistryKey: Yes, they're meant to work w/o stripping and if they don't work well they are of low quality, the wire is the wrong size or kind, or a combination of these. If that's the case, you should only shave off part of the insulation on the two sides where the V-slice will cut in. There are "moving stresses" on vehicle wiring, most damaging are vibrations and driving thru bumps in the road. There is a reason why automotive wiring is not the same as your common house wiring (even in low voltage applications) and is not limited to being oil resistent: Your house is (usually) not moving ;) --TMCk (talk) 22:34, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
BTW, pinging is not working when you add it after you already signed your post.--TMCk (talk) 22:34, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Also note that electrical tape provides support for the wires, too, just as the original insulation did. StuRat (talk) 17:08, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

What tape???? There is no tape!!! You don't use tape with them!!!!--TMCk (talk) 22:34, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

June 17

Pregnancy by deception?

Is it a crime anywhere to mislead someone in to pregnancy. For example, a partner sabotaging contraceptives. Is it like an assault? If the guy does it, then obviously the woman can get the thing aborted. But if it's a woman who does it to a man, where does he stand. He obviously can't get her chained by the cops and have the foetus extracted because he didn't want it.

Seems like guys get a rough deal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.49.113.235 (talk • contribs) 13:31, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

I'd think in some jurisdictions "violation of an oral contract" would be the charge, which is civil, not criminal (so would have a fine, not jail). However, proving the case would be quite difficult. They'd need a "smoking gun", like a text to a friend where the woman reveals the plan.

There is also "criminal fraud", but that charge would likely only be used if it could be proven a woman intentionally got pregnant by some rich guy, while telling him she was on birth control, in order to get access to his money. StuRat (talk) 13:41, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

It can be a rough deal going both ways. In some of the United States, a rapist can get custody to the child of his victim. Dismas| 14:38, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

The only way to avoid this danger is to avoid heterosexual intercourse outside of marriage. Note that I don't advocate limiting sex to marriage, but extramarital sex does come with risks (as, to a lesser degree, does marital sex). Women face risks, too, if they become pregnant. Abortion itself involves risks to health and can take a psychological toll. It is also true that relations between the sexes are not symmetrical. For example, heterosexual women face a higher risk of death or injury from a violent partner than heterosexual men. Marco polo (talk) 15:18, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Your comment seems to assume that such a case couldn't happen when people are married, or that married = wanting (more) children, neither of which seems true on the face of it. Better to avoid sex altogether unless you want a kid then MChesterMC (talk) 08:00, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

I think it's difficult for a convicted sexual offender to win custody. Chasing links from that blog post, it appears the real issue is men accused of rape, but not convicted, filing for custody. It's not clear that anything can or should be done about that. The presumption of innocence is pretty important. At most you could require a lower standard of proof for denial of custody than for a felony conviction, which seems to be what some of the proposed legislation is about. -- BenRG (talk) 01:52, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

An ancient example involved the woman Tamar, who deceived her father-in-law Judah. The account is recorded in Genesis 38. Jehovah's Witnesses have published a discussion about it at http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2004047.

—Wavelength (talk) 15:36, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

• Yes, there is precedent for requiring men who used condoms, even just for oral sex, to pay support if the women impregnates herself with the sperm, see Louisiana v. Frissard. Searching google news isn't very helpful, but you can look at other cases on the search terms "man forced to pay child support woman sabotage condom". The basic reasoning is twofold. The act of sex itself is voluntary and always has a finite risk of pregnancy, whether the woman sabotages the birth control or it fails on its own. The second issue is that the purpose of child support is to support the child, who is an innocent party in the circumstances, and the state has an interest in protecting his rights and preventing him from becoming a burden on the public. μηδείς (talk) 17:56, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Saudi sewage

What happens to Saudi sewage waste water? Where does it get discharged? 78.146.97.42 (talk) 20:47, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

We have an Water supply and sanitation in Saudi Arabia article, which mentions dumping of raw sewage in various places and a recent move towards treatment and reuse. If someone has updated info, please update the article. DMacks (talk) 21:02, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

June 18

Opposite of a Black Swan?

Is there a term for the cognitive bias that's effectively the opposite of the black swan theory? That is, the black swan theory expresses the concept that humans underestimate the frequency of rare events that don't have existing precedent (i.e. that haven't happened yet). I'm looking for the name for a cognitive bias where humans overestimate the frequency of rare events which have happened. For example, hearing about someone winning the lottery makes it so you believe winning the lottery is much more likely than it actually may be. Or learning about a shooting or a terrorism attack makes it seem like shootings/terrorism attacks happen more frequently than they actually do. -- 160.129.138.186 (talk) 23:07, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

The general term would seem to be Cognitive bias. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 01:35, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Specifically List_of_cognitive_biases#Frequency_illusion is probably most appropriate, though the term "salience bias" is also used, especially if it's not something that is especially recent that makes the item stand out. SemanticMantis (talk) 01:49, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

The frequency illusion is not quite what I'm after - with it you don't necessarily believe that encountering the term in the future will be anymore likely than it was before, just that you've coincidentally encountered a current increase in mentions. "Saliency bias" seems much closer, with actually mentioning increased perception of violence due to hearing about it on TV, and this New Yorker article uses it in connection with the 9/11 terrorism attacks. Neutrality's fallacy of dramatic instance also sounds like it could work, though I'm unclear what distinction, if any, there is between the saliency bias and the fallacy of dramatic instance. -- 160.129.138.186 (talk) 20:07, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

See "Woozle effect".—Wavelength (talk) 02:06, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

An argumentum ad populum relies on that effect to convince people that more people think something than actually do, but isn't the effect itself. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:21, June 19, 2015 (UTC)

This sounds like the fallacy of dramatic instance - we have no article on it, but see here. Neutrality 05:19, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Note that overestimating rare events is almost exclusively due to excessive media coverage of those events. Take the recent shark attacks. Before mass media, only those on the beach involved would have heard of such attacks, by word of mouth or witnessing the events in persons. Those people might avoid that beach for a period of time, which is probably a sensible precaution. But now, with mass media, we hear about those attacks all over the world, and people who live far away are afraid of beaches, too, even though that particular shark isn't a threat there. StuRat (talk) 14:13, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

June 19

Advantages of reading

What are some advantages of reading? I know that reading allows you to be more imaginative, frees you from stress, but I don't know very many others.--AM Talk/Contribs 20:09, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Learning new things? AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:10, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

See The 26 Major Advantages to Reading More Books and Why 3 in 4 People Are Being Shut Out of Success.

—Wavelength (talk) 20:34, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

@Wavelength: My computer won't let me access it, Microsoft's Parental Controls blocks it. Is there a way that you can get the information in the article to me?--AM Talk/Contribs 20:42, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Here is my summary: (1) mental exercise, (2) skill development, (3) vocabulary, (4) knowledge of cultures and places, (5) development of concentration, (6) self-esteem, (7) development of memory, (8) improved discipline, (9) portability of books, (10) improved creativity, (11) conversation topics, (12) low cost, (13) flexibility of pace, (14) mental connections, (15) improved reasoning, (16) increased expertise, (17) money-saving skills, (18) mistake reduction, (19) surprising tangents, (20) reduced boredom, (21) life changes, (22) slump solution, (23) reduced stress, (24) relief from digital competition, (25) increased income, (26) a better alternative to movies.

—Wavelength (talk) 21:24, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

@Wavelength: Could you expand on 5, 6, 7 and 15?--AM Talk/Contribs 21:38, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

(5) Reading books requires concentration for extended periods of time. (6) Being more informed and more of an expert increases self-esteem. (7) Reading involves remembering details and making connections. (15) Writers make arguments for their claims, and readers can learn how to make arguments and even counter-arguments.

—Wavelength (talk) 23:16, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Comment @Airplane Maniac (talk · contribs) I would also suggest strongly that you ask whoever invoked the parental controls to configure it properly for you and not leave it on the default setting. If they don't know how to do it ask a trusted neighbor. You can even have your own parental account set up incase you have younger siblings using the same computer.--Aspro (talk) 23:54, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Shouldn't fun be high on the list? Enjoyment, distraction, because even reading a sad book can be a pleasure in some sense. Itsmejudith (talk) 11:01, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

See the 12th item listed on the page to which I linked. I could have summarized it better as "low-cost entertainment".

—Wavelength (talk) 15:17, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

DC input interfering with RF cable?

I've been trying to nail some inconsistent signal / reception problems with my basic TV.

Seems that when the DC power cable gets too close to the RF cable, signal quality drops off substantially. Moving the wires further apart seems to improve the problem. Ideally, I'd prefer to keep the cables close to enable tidy routing....So my question is whether or not this is due to a faulty / leaking DC power lead. Or is it a poorly shielded RF cable. Is there anything I can do to mitigate.

Well, there are shielded power cords: . (BTW, why does your TV have a D/C power cord instead of A/C ? I've only seen those on portable models that plug into car cigar lighters.) StuRat (talk) 23:36, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

• Also, see this about what happens when you wrap cords. μηδείς (talk) 00:05, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Just a thought. Has the screen of the RF cable been earthed properly?--Aspro (talk) 00:10, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

US English translation: "Has it been grounded properly ?" StuRat (talk) 00:15, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

If you have a switched mode power supply on the end of it, then this can make plenty of RF interference, especially if there is no ferrite rings or beads on the cord. Inadequate filter capacitors can also lead to the problem. If it has valid CE marks or the like then it should have passed tests for putting out RF trash. As Aspro suggests, if it is a coax cable, any noise should travel on the outer surface and not get onto the inside. But usually you would have the cheapest cable with open braid, and the braid may not connect to the plug all around, thus leaving a gap for interfering signal to come from the outside of the cable to the inside. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:10, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Question re UK tax laws

June 20

June 21

Countries with a  10-year preuniversity cycle

How many countries do have  10-year preuniversity cycle? --112.198.82.19 (talk) 07:41, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Really gross smelly poo

Does the human gut use fermentation as part of its digestive process. Or is this activity only restricted to certain types of diets. It's hard to imagine a diet high in KFC and beef jerky. Whereas, what about someone who eats a copious amount of chickpeas and beans in their diet.

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