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Revision as of 19:39, 28 June 2015 editWikinium (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users1,979 edits →Naziism & Holocaust troll edits← Previous edit Revision as of 19:46, 28 June 2015 edit undoWikinium (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users1,979 edits →Naziism & Holocaust troll editsNext edit →
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* https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=PC_Master_Race&diff=668896395&oldid=668895851 * https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=PC_Master_Race&diff=668896395&oldid=668895851
:Wikinium, please ]. These were not vandalism edits nor is ThePowerofX trolling. In fact source says quite clearly that "It began as a joke from Ben “Yahtzee” Croshaw, who was mocking our elitist attitude with the internet’s favorite analogy: the Nazi analogy" and "I obviously realize that no one is actually saying that PC gamers are the preferred people of Hitler." While I think that outright stating what the 'master race' was isn't something that should be in this article, I think it's worth making it clear that this is what 'master race' refers to. ] (]) 18:50, 28 June 2015 (UTC) :Wikinium, please ]. These were not vandalism edits nor is ThePowerofX trolling. In fact source says quite clearly that "It began as a joke from Ben “Yahtzee” Croshaw, who was mocking our elitist attitude with the internet’s favorite analogy: the Nazi analogy" and "I obviously realize that no one is actually saying that PC gamers are the preferred people of Hitler." While I think that outright stating what the 'master race' was isn't something that should be in this article, I think it's worth making it clear that this is what 'master race' refers to. ] (]) 18:50, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
::Assuming good faith stopped as soon as it became clear that he has a . The reference to the origins of the term "Master Race" may belong here, but that doesn't mean that a summary of Naziism and the holocaust should be shoved in right at the beginning. ] (]) 19:39, 28 June 2015 (UTC) ::Assuming good faith stopped as soon as it became clear that he has a . The reference to the origins of the term "Master Race" may belong here, but that doesn't mean that a summary of Naziism and the holocaust should be shoved in right at the beginning. Why not make a Misconceptions section and add the information there? A lot of people think that's what the term is about, which SHOULD BE DOCUMENTED. However, that's not what it's actually ever been about, so it should also be included that it's a misconception. ] (]) 19:39, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

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Origin and Growth

I don't believe this is necessary as the origin is covered in the opening paragraph and growth is covered in the notable dates section.

Teaearlgraycold (talk) 06:49, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Teaearlgraycold, keep in mind that intro paragraphs are supposed to summarize the article, not introduce new information that appears nowhere else. That's why intros don't need citations: the information's presumably cited where it crops up in the body text. Tezero (talk) 06:52, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
Tezero, fair enough Teaearlgraycold (talk) 06:55, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Someone attempted to move this page to "PC master race" and lower-cased everything

I moved it back. That was completely unwarranted as were the intentional lowercasing of words within the article. Everyone should keep an eye out for over-complication vandalism in the future.Wikinium (talk) 23:00, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Not sure if it was over-complication vandalism. I looked at the sources and about half of them use lowercase while half use uppercase so perhaps it could go either way. And the user who moved the page made the page much easier to edit (and vastly un-complicating things) by moving the references to the LDR format -- a cool thing to do -- maybe I'll learn how to use that tool too. Only one thing; about copyright rules about being careful not to over-quote, which is why I try only to use minimalist quotes, that is, just enough to make the point, without doing the whole quote which could be seen as violating the reporter's or magazine's rights to make $$ from the writing that they work hard to generate.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 23:41, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I suppose it just appeared that way at first. They were doing it in good faith, but it was wrong nonetheless. When I moved the page back, it kept all the good work they did on the edits and stuff. Wikinium (talk) 21:27, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Image for the article

What would make a good image? Would a screenshot of a community do it, or should it be a fair-use example of Croshaw's original drawing?

Reddits /r/pcmasterrace may make a good screenshot. I'd dare say taken at 4K resolution, as it befits the subject151.224.187.161 (talk) 16:58, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Screenshots (of websites) on Misplaced Pages don't need to be that big, especially if they contain copyrighted material (such as Reddit layout and logos). Dogman15 (talk) 08:11, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

"Reason for belief in superiority"

Could there be a short section explaining popular reason behind the belief of PC superiority? As someone who's an active reader of gaming news, there's no shortage of reasons to believe PC to be advantageous over consoles. I feel the article should have a small section *explaining* the belief behind the cause. Wikinium (talk) 21:19, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

If the sources explicitly stating the words PC Master Race go into specifics about why the PC platform is seen as superior, then it can be added, with each sentence sourced. Problem is, if the article veers too much from being about the concept, veers towards being a debate about whether PCs or consoles are a better gaming problem, then there is a risk of original research and also risks another deletion battle, if the article gets topheavy with unsourced claims.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 21:33, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
Indeed. Sources used in this article should be about the term, not the beliefs behind it. To include sources which speak generally of the merits of PC gaming would be synthesis and should be avoided. Sam Walton (talk) 22:49, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
Hi guys. The way you are writing seems like you don't know that PC actually is superior. Here is a source, that explains the superiority very detailed: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/guide 84.130.65.166 (talk) 11:22, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

De-orphanizing

Can anyone think of any relevant pages? Internet memes and related pages... maybe Console peasant if it existed, but that'd be better as a subsection of this page.

Wikinium (talk) 04:39, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

I've put it in a few "See also" sections, like that of PC gaming. It really doesn't fit in a whole lot of places, though. Tezero (talk) 05:42, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Why not point out that the entire PCMR community is satirical?

There has been controversy recently with an article from the magazine PC Gamer asking to the community to stop using the "Master Race" term due to the similarities with the Nazi ideology. As a member from the PC Master Race subreddit I can say that the entire community is satirical and I haven't met anyone who truly feels superior to other people. I think that my way to play games is superior to console gamer's way. I don't think I am superior to a console gamer. This should be clarified in my opinion.

--37.132.57.125 (talk) 10:59, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Please have a look at https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/guide On the right side there is a box with General Information where it says: This is not a satirical or circlejerk subreddit nor did it start as one. This is a normal subreddit with satirical & circlejerk humor elements. Why do you think it is satirical? It is a fact that PC is superior to consoles in any way imaginable. Have a look at https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/guide and you will see no satire, everything mentioned there is true. 84.130.65.166 (talk) 11:45, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
A lot of it is satirical, and I think that's reflected in our article, but there is also a sizeable number without a single humorous bone in their body. — TPX 13:38, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Adding a picture to this page?

http://i.imgur.com/PMXCKOZ.png

Is it possible to use this picture for the article? It is the original one generated by Yahtzee on PCMR. Can we go ahead and use this, or is there a process we need to go through? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Connstable (talk • contribs) 18:27, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Sure we can, but the image must be low res to comply with Misplaced Pages non-free content policy. Hakken (talk) 15:51, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Controversy / Offensiveness

Initial content discussion

I've added a section to this article mentioning the controversy around the term, and added some references to the concept of master race in the introduction. I suspect this will be a controversial edit, but I believe I've done a fairly good job of presenting the information in a neutral fashion. (I don't think *anyone* is suggesting that the majority of gamers or people using this term are racist, etc). If there are tone issues or anything of the sort, I of course welcome edits. However, please don't remove this content just because you think the term isn't offensive. Disagreeing is of course fine, but I don't think the fact that the topic is controversial is itself controversial. If you **do** feel inclined to remove this content, please at least follow the internal[REDACTED] links and references; I believe they provide enough context to explain that this content's inclusion is warranted. If you remove the content, please discuss your reasoning below. --Overand (talk) 17:56, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Other than PC Gamer, are the other citations to reliable sources? Sam Walton (talk) 18:17, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
Debatable. Of the three references I used, one was an existing reference in the article (twsLinusTechTips, which is a forum link, however it's quoting GameCrate, which is a site managed by Newegg. Reliable? I'd give that a "probably"). One was PC Gamer, which I think we can agree is reliable. The third , LazyGamer, seems at least noteworthy. It's tricky to get a 'reliable source' about a largely-internet-linked social issue, especially as it relates to gaming.
All this said, I think it's plainly apparent that it's controversial to name something (jokingly, of course) after the nazi belief that justified eugenics, the holocaust etc. Again, I'm not saying anyone has to agree that it's "wrong" or offensive or anything of the sort. Doesn't matter if someone thinks rape jokes are funny or not, Daniel Tosh's article still warranted a discussion of the controversy that blew up around him on that topic. Obviously this isn't as widely known or discussed, being an internet-related, gaming-related topic. Overand (talk) 19:30, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
To be honest, about the surest sign that a controversy is worth mentioning is febrile debate over whether it should be controversial. We're perfectly within our jurisdiction in mentioning it as long as we're not taking the position that people who use this term really are racist, or even insensitive. (Although I don't hold any particular affinity for PC gaming, I use "master race" as a general approval clause terminator all the time.) Tezero (talk) 03:19, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
We do need reliable sources though; if we're having a term about controversy there should be a strong indication that the controversy is important, and not just a few postings by random people, so we do need good RS coverage. I'm not sure that the other two sources are reliable, and then we're left with just the PC Gamer source, already mentioned in the lead, which I'm not convinced warrants its own section. Sam Walton (talk) 10:15, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Outside persuasion from /r/pcmasterrace

Editors who are attempting to erase historical information, and use this article as a soapbox to demonstrate how much greater PC gaming is, by coordinating their efforts with members of /r/pcmasterrace, need to stop immediately. The matter has been raised on WikiProject Video games#Outside canvassing. The next step is escalation, and to push for topic bans. — TPX 10:58, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Naziism & Holocaust troll edits

TPX has been attempting to vandalize (or troll) this page by including references to Naziism and The Holocaust ever since discovering that some month-old threads on /r/PCMasterRace pointed to various Misplaced Pages pages. I've witnessed several attempts over the course of the past week. Of course, when realizing I reverted his edits, he quickly stood behind a "three revert rule" and added it to my talk page in hopes of using it as a weapon to prevent me from interfering with his edits any further. Keep an eye out. I will admit that some of his edits are good, but he appears to have been obfuscating and burying some of his troll edits by rapidly submitting multiple small ones after them. This is not the first instance of them vandalizing this page. Wikinium (talk) 18:21, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

The term "PC Master Race" has absolutely nothing to do with Naziism, Aryans, Jews, death camps, or the Holocaust. It's a term coined by Ben Croshaw entirely within the context of gaming.

Wikinium, please assume good faith. These were not vandalism edits nor is ThePowerofX trolling. In fact this source says quite clearly that "It began as a joke from Ben “Yahtzee” Croshaw, who was mocking our elitist attitude with the internet’s favorite analogy: the Nazi analogy" and "I obviously realize that no one is actually saying that PC gamers are the preferred people of Hitler." While I think that outright stating what the 'master race' was isn't something that should be in this article, I think it's worth making it clear that this is what 'master race' refers to. Sam Walton (talk) 18:50, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
Assuming good faith stopped as soon as it became clear that he has a vendetta against the page. The reference to the origins of the term "Master Race" may belong here, but that doesn't mean that a summary of Naziism and the holocaust should be shoved in right at the beginning. Why not make a Misconceptions section and add the information there? A lot of people think that's what the term is about, which SHOULD BE DOCUMENTED. However, that's not what it's actually ever been about, so it should also be included that it's a misconception. Wikinium (talk) 19:39, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
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