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India Pakistan

Gujarat riots happened in India . Why it is kept under India Vs Pakistan topics?--CosmicEmperor (talk) 04:19, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

@CosmicEmperor: Probably because Pakistan is mentioned enough times on the page. Please note that I din't write this page. It was long settled before I came on the scene! Kautilya3 (talk) 22:41, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Meerut 1987

Can you create this article 1987 Meerut Riots ? , --CosmicEmperor (talk) 04:42, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

I will keep the topic in mind and look for information. Reports like this are "primary sources" and wp:RS warns us to be careful in interpreting them. It is far better to find academic books or articles. Kautilya3 (talk) 22:54, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

References

1. http://www.pucl.org/Topics/Human-rights/2006/meerut-riots.html
2. http://www.massviolence.org/hindu-muslim-communal-riots-in,738?artpage=3-30

Ways to improve Meenakshi Jain

Hi, I'm Ironholds. Kautilya3, thanks for creating Meenakshi Jain!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Please address the tags on this article. Thanks!

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse. Ironholds (talk) 02:54, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Hinduism edit

In this edit, the jargon Devasthana was readded in heading. A temple is known by various names, including the popular "mandir". Thus, I suggest removal from heading. --Redtigerxyz 11:29, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Aryan

Yes, it's a perpetual problem-term. The same repeated problems crop up at talk:antisemitism, because of the multiple usages of "semite". Paul B (talk) 20:25, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, yeah, when terms become "nationalistic", it would seem that more people misunderstand what we say than those that understand it! I guess we have to try harder to be clear. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 13:13, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi concerning your draft on indigenous aryans ... any thoughts on moresocialservicesplease.com OIT — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.49.157.227 (talk) 22:58, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Oh, that site was trying to mirror the old Misplaced Pages, which has now been cleaned up. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 09:37, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Nomination of Tufail Ahmad for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Tufail Ahmad is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Tufail Ahmad until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. bender235 (talk) 21:53, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Invitation

Hello, Kautilya3,

The Editing team is asking for your help with VisualEditor. I am contacting you because you have switched out of VisualEditor several times. Please tell them what they need to change to make VisualEditor work for you, so that you didn't need to switch to the wikitext editor. The team has a list of top-priority problems, but they also want to hear about small problems. These problems may make editing less fun, take too much of your time, or be as annoying as a paper cut. The Editing team wants to hear about and try to fix these small things, too. 

You can share your thoughts by clicking this link. You may respond to this quick, simple, anonymous survey in your own language. If you take the survey, then you agree your responses may be used in accordance with these terms. This survey is powered by Qualtrics and their use of your information is governed by their privacy policy.

More information (including a translateable list of the questions) is posted on wiki at mw:VisualEditor/Survey 2015. If you have questions, or prefer to respond on-wiki, then please leave a message on the survey's talk page.

Thank you, Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:57, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Schools by religious affiliation vs Religious schools

Good day! What is a difference between these two categories? --Glovacki (talk) 18:27, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

The former is a holder for subcategories by religious affiliation. I don't know about the latter, but I will check. Kautilya3 (talk) 18:29, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

In all wiki on different languages that is 1 category that is a holder for subcategories by religious affiliation. Why English wiki should has two? --Glovacki (talk) 18:33, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Ok, please put this explanation on the category talk page. Otherwise, people will mistake for it vandalism. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 18:38, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

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RSS clarification Tag Removal

Hi, you recently reverted my edit to RSS, regarding the tagging, a statement is properly described and its giving good sense of mission "To unite whole world under one family" Tagging for clarification is vague. Can you please discuss. BTW, I had corrected your previous edit for which you have received disambiguation notification. Kswarrior (talk) KLS 17:25, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi Ks, Thanks very much for fixing the disambiguation link! The clarify tag on the RSS page had an explanation, something like "how can a wordview be a mission?" I think the paragraph was badly worded, and might need to be rewritten. The "whole world" stuff is also quite bogus because RSS is a nationalist organisation that is limited to India. In fact, the overseas shakhas are called Hindu Swayamseveak Sangh and other such names. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 17:40, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

This is what i want to claify, it that para it is mentioned that the leaders cited philosophy of Vedas that Whole World is one family (Vasudhaiva Kutumbkam) actually it matches the Hindu philosophy, Yes RSS is nationalists organisation but it works under principle for peace and stability of whole human race or whole world. To unite world under common culture & Philosophy of Human Life as it is believed to be most ancient and originator of the all others. RSS actually works on Hindu Philosophy of life, it is not like Army thing but Social & Cultural theme of Nationalism. i.e. RSS treats Country as Goddess "Bharat Mata" more than a land

Kswarrior (talk) KLS 18:51, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

That is all very interesting. Coming back to the clarification tag, it is there because, to most of us, "worldview" and "mission" are quite different concepts. But the sentence is supposedly sourced from a book. To clarify it, you would need to produce a quote from the book that justifies the sentence. Otherwise, it will get deleted after certain amount of time. Kautilya3 (talk) 06:44, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Kswarrior, you should not remove the tag without discussion. You may provide a clearer reference and that should help. --AmritasyaPutra 06:52, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Moorjani 2013

Moorjani et al. (2013), Genetic evidence for recent population mixture in India. The American Journal of Human Genetics, 93(3), 422-438. abstract, full text AJHG abstract PubMed full text PuMed pdf

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

You'll be interested in these comments: . And Defence Forum India:

• "Stepping back in time from the early modern to the ancient, the implications of this research seem straightforward, if explosive. One common theme in contemporary Western treatments of the Vedic period is to interpret narratives of ethnic conflict coded in racialized terms as metaphor. So references to markers of ethnic differences may be tropes in Vedic culture, rather than concrete pointers to ancient socio-political dynamics. The description of the enemies of the Aryans as dark skinned and snub-nosed is not a racial observation in this reading, but analogous to the stylized conflicts between the Norse gods and their less aesthetically pleasing enemies, the Frost Giants. The mien of the Frost Giants was reflective of their symbolic role in the Norse cosmogony." dfi
• "I believe that this component is correlated with the second, smaller wave of admixture, which brought the Indo-European speaking Indo-Aryans to much of the subcontinent. The Dasas described in the Vedas are not ASI, but hybrid populations. The collapse of the Indus Valley civilization was an explosive event for the rest of the subcontinent, as Moorjani et al. report that all indigenous Indian populations have ANI-ASI admixture (with the exceptions of Tibeto-Burman groups)." dfi
• "it does not seem that the admixture times for Indo-Europeans coincide with the appearance of the Indo-Aryans, presumably during the 2nd millennium BC: they are much later. I believe that this is fairly convincing evidence that north India has been affected by subsequent population movements from central Asia of "Indo-Scythian"-related populations, for which there is ample historical evidence. So, the difference in dates might be explained by secondary (later) admixture with other West Eurasians after the arrival of Indo-Aryans."dfi

Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 13:31, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Joshua. Brilliant stuff! Two things that worry me

• So much ANI DNA in India, but no females among them? That is really sad.
• How come there is so little evidence of Indo-Aryans in 1500 BC? It appears that the Indian archaeologists have had a better theory. Should linguists go back to the drawing board and recalculate?

Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 14:24, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Back to the drawing board? I don't know. The main question may be: how can a small group affect a language shift? The answer may be complicated, and expand over a longer period of time, including the Kuru Kingdom. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 15:55, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

anti christian violence in india

hello, kautilya. thanks for the message and guiding me to contribute more effectively in wikipedia. regarding anti christian violence in india, its not correct to paint BJP and VHP in same colour. secularism in india is , including wikipedia , criticized to be pro minorities rather than balanced, and same goes with indian media. i bet an average 10th standard student knows nothing about "kautilya( or chanakya) than Aurangzeb or faruskyyar brothers... i saw the page was showing only one side of view... and not balanced... mention of nun rape but no mention of suspects nabbed by police and their bangladeshi links.... they were not hindus(but muslims) or any BJP links but apparently illegal migrants from bangladesh...seeing this i was perplexed.Im completely new to wikipedia,would strongly thank and concider your further sugestions.. thanku....Nurmengrad (talk) 12:04, 4 April 2015 (UTC)nurmengrad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nurmengrad (talk • contribs) 12:01, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

@Nurmengrad: Glad to see that you have registered as a user. You have added information to the page along with reliable sources, which was good. Please work on writing more polished English as well. This is after all an encyclopedia. Once again, welcome. If you have any questions on how to do something, please feel free to ask. Kautilya3 (talk) 07:16, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

April 2015

Hello, I'm AmritasyaPutra. I noticed that you made a comment that didn't seem very civil. Misplaced Pages needs people like you and me to collaborate, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. If you continue your commentary on your opinion about me rather than content I will not hesitate to bring this up in AN. AmritasyaPutra 09:49, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Dear friend, I will certainly be glad to welcome to the club of collaborators. But, when you truly begin to collaborate, I am sure I will know it. Kautilya3 (talk) 13:42, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

I can say the same about you here, so, WP:FOC, I abide by WP:NPA. -AmritasyaPutra 14:56, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Wapsi Daisy

Not getting involved - that's me with the contents issues at GW.... I have left a note at the tagger's page, with little expectation of any much notice being taken. If he doesn't stop PoV pushing (or whatever he IS pushing - I'm totally at sea with the whole thing), AN/I will probably be needed. Peridon (talk) 16:26, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Peridon. Don't worry, I think we can handle this user. I think it is new user and the CSD proposal was a reaction to his/her edits being reverted. The article needs quite a bit of work as well. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 17:01, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

My Draft Article

Hi, Kautilya3. Thanks for your welcome note sent to me. Can you please review my article https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:Arun_Kumar_Sinha. Hoping to receive your inputs, best Lotus2015 (talk) 09:15, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

@Lotus2015: Sorry I have been busy with some other articles. I will look at your draft this weekend. All the best! Kautilya3 (talk) 12:28, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Friendly Request

According to my experience you are very much interested in topics related to Kashmir conflict. I'm suggesting you few pages to keep on your watcahlist. These pages are about some foremost separatist leaders which are repeatedly vandalized by registered or unregistered users. One party writes words like "freedom fighter", "Hero of Kashmiris", "Indian occupation" etc while other party uses words like "terrorist", "various abusive words", "abusive word regarding religion" etc. And it seems that I'm the only one who is watching those pages. These leaders were/are in news recently and these pages got 2-3 times more views than article Kashmir conflict. Following are the pages..

• All Parties Hurriyat Conference
• Syed Ali Shah Geelani
• Masarat Alam
• Asiya Andrabi

There are 25-30 pages related to Kashmir conflict which I'm watching, but I'm suggesting you just 4, hope you will help. Thank you. Cheers. --Human3015 05:37, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi Human3015, I will put them on my watch list, but I am afraid I don't know all that much about these topics. I know the history of Kashmir issue fairly well, but not so much the current happenings. But I will watch the pages. Thanks a lot for all your work on Misplaced Pages. Kautilya3 (talk) 08:53, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

@Human3015: Xtools records that 17% of your edits don't have edit summaries. While it is not a big proportion, it is still a bit problematic. Please make an effort to put edit summaries on all your edits. You can use Twinkle (under Preferences/Gadgets) to give you some canned edit summaries for routine edits. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 12:29, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for advice, and also thanks for new info for me about Xtools. --Human3015 13:43, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

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Polytheism

Can i add the polytheistic word in Hinduism by giving relevant source?? Ankush 89 (talk) 10:21, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

@Ankush 89: You can't do so in my opinion. The lead is a summary of the article. The article section on "Concept of God" describes the complex view of God in Hinduism. It can't be reduced to a single word description. Kautilya3 (talk) 11:24, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

@Kautilya3: Why then Judaism, Christianity and Islam collectively called Abrahamic even though the theism concept in each of them is very different? Ankush 89 (talk) 11:31, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

I don't know about them. But I am sure that it is not right to call Hinduism either "polytheistic" or "monotheistic". Kautilya3 (talk) 11:42, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

@Kautilya3: Can my polytheistic word be not used anywhere in the article if not in the lead or my contribution is useless according to u and u r completely right? Ankush 89 (talk) 11:57, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

This is not question of right or wrong. I reverted your edits as per Misplaced Pages policies, which you should make yourself aware of. You should also read the article first, make sure you undertand it, and follow up on some of the scholarly sources cited, before starting to think you need to make corrections. This is a massive article written by a lot of knowledgeable people. Please show regard to them. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 12:24, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

@Kautilya3: But in one of the section of Hinduism wiki article, it has been described on the scale of theism, then why can't my polytheistic word be included? Almost all Hindus worship Lord Ganesha in the beginning of any hindu ritual and along with that they also worship Ishtadevata, Kuladevata, Also, is it not compulsory that a reliable source according to WP:RS should be not from a source completely dedicated to that subject or article itself. Ankush 89 (talk) 12:36, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Listen friend. Hinduism is a vast ocean and you only know the surface. Why don't you learn enough about Hinduism first? You can get one of the books mentioned in the Further Reading section. We can talk afterwards. Kautilya3 (talk) 14:15, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

No there is no rule in WP:RS that says the source should not be dedicated to the subject. Kautilya3 (talk) 14:15, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

@Ankush 89: I actually agree that Hinduism is "polytheistic" in the sense that it allows multiple gods, which contributes to its tolerant and liberal nature. However, Hinduism also says all gods are manifestations of the One True God (Brahman). So, it is not correct to label it simply as a "polytheistic" religion. Bhagwad Gita says "in whatever form you worship me, that worship will reach me." So, these kind of labels are irrelevant to Hinduism. All the best. Kautilya3 (talk) 15:52, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Thankyou for your reply buddy, you please guide me for my future edits :) Ankush 89 (talk) 16:15, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Sure, I will be glad to. Misplaced Pages has lots of policies. To be a successful editor, you need to read and follow them. You can't do it all at once. But, whenever issues arise, the experienced editors will point you to the relevant policies. Please be sure to follow through. Try to be critical of the sources. Who wrote this? What do we know about them? Where was it published? What kind of review does it go through to get published? Et cetra. All these issues play a role in deciding what is a reliable source. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 17:00, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

@Kautilya3:

Yeah, i strongly believe in Lord Shiva, the Nataraja idol picture in my infobox is a good one, I deeply respect his fierce manifestations of Bhairava which gives us the strength to tackle obstacles Ankush 89 (talk) 18:03, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

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Interesting Piece

Was the Ramayana actually set in and around today’s Afghanistan?

NOTE: Scroll is a Left of the Centre / Marxist site.Ghatus (talk) 13:38, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Oh, this is worse than the Hindutva history :-( Kautilya3 (talk) 14:02, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

"Favorite" editor

Took me a few minutes to figure out whom you meant, especially considering this. :) But we do seem well-covered in terms of redirects to IVC. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 20:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Well, I have been reading books by Ashis Nandy and Vinay Lal. Both of them say that this "history" stuff doesn't work for Indians. They are into myth. That is how they have been from the beginning of time. So why change now? Meera Nanda points out that an amazing 93% of the Indians think that their culture is superior to others. Put the two together, and you have got vanity@myth.com. We just have to put up with it. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:25, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Don't doubt that. But Indians, unfortunately, are far from exceptional in either the myth-making, the anti-intellectualism, or the sense of superiority. And that is the sad/scary part, since it suggests that this is unlikely to change simply through increased literacy or economic prosperity. Yes, we are all doomed. :) Abecedare (talk) 21:44, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

"Favorite editor"? It's like searching for eastern eggs. Regarding "into myth": nice observation. By the way: when queen Maxima said that "the Dutchman does not exist", she was strongly criticised. Stupid; it was a very good observation. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:35, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Neither Nandy nor Vinay Lal shoot down the mythophilia of the Indian psyche. Rather they point out that it is rooted in Indian tradition and `modernity' has in no way improved upon it. Quite the contrary. They also accuse the Indian historians of ignoring the limitations of their own trade and almost hint that they are engaged in their own version of myth-making. (See my recent article on Suraj Bhan for an example.)

The Indians "lost" the Sindhu and Saraswati has dried up. So there is a sense of loss. Myth-making is a way to counter that.

Incidentally, the Sarasvati is an important river historically, but the page on it is quite off-putting with all the Vedic stuff and Witzel's counter-points. Should we spin off a separate page for the Vedic Sarasvati river? Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 09:13, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

References

1. Nandy, Ashis; Trivedy, Shikha; Mayaram, Shail; Yagnik, Achyut (1995). Creating a Nationality: The Ramjanmabhumi Movement and Fear of the Self. Oxford University Press India. ISBN 0-19-564271-6. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
2. Lal, Vinay (2003). The History of History. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-567244-5.
3. Nanda, Meera (2011). "The God Market: How Globalization is making India more Hindu". NYU Press. p. 145. ISBN 1583673091. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |url= (help)

Sarswati & myth-making

Dear Kautilya3 , I thank you for your acknowledgement of my point on mentioning the Sarasvati river.

I want to add some more to this discussion. Please take a few minutes to have a look at this. What is myth-making? If some false idea is believed to be true.

I want to ask you the most fundamental question that was never asked about the whole concept of Ancient India.

If Vedas were composed by Aryans who were assumed to have entered the Indian sub-continent after Indus Valley Civilization(IVC) collapsed due to the dried-up of Sarasvati river, Why would the so called Aryans mention Sarasvati as the most important river in Vedas, why would they considered the Sarasvati river as their mother and goddess of education? In fact, people of IVC should consider Sarasvati as their mother because their civilization had flourished mainly because of Sarasvati river. What does the so called Aryans had to do with a river that has already dried up before their arrival, why would any one call a dried up river their mother,because of which they were no way benefited and which even seized to exist before their very assumed arrival into the sub-continent. IVC people are the one who were enormously benefited by the Sarasvati river, not the so called Aryans. In fact how did the so called Aryans came to know about a river that was already dried-up long before they migrated to the sub-continent.(It took many years even to the present scientific and historical community to accept that there is ever a river called Sarasvati existed. Until the satellite imagining was done, Sarasvati river was taught to be a myth.)

Now, personification of Sarasvati river into a mother goddess(which is called as myth-making). You are absolutely right about myth-making. But the myth-making has never happened to counter the loss of Sarasvati River, but to remember it as the most fundamental root of the civilization, and the most significant achievements of the civilization because of the existence of the river. The beauty of this myth is that none of it is actually false.

If any one lost their money or property they don't keep a personificaton of that property to remember it all the way in their future. If any losts their parents, definitely they will keep a photograph of their parents so as to remember in their future and to show to their children and grand-children. This happens only because of a basic understanding that the family was born and continuing to exist only because of their initial parents. The future generation should always remember their family roots.

Sarasvati river is personified into mother of education only because the most important wealth of the whole IVC(the knowledge that they gained in their all generations) had been possible only because of the existence of that mighty river. If there is no river there will be no IVC at all. Sarasvati river has taken care of all the needs of IVC people(which in a family is taken care by the mother), so they are able to spend their time in the goals they wanted to achieve. So, making the future generations of the civilization to remember their civilizational roots is as important as a person to remember his\her family roots. That too remembering the root of all the knowledge that they have gained is much more important. Because from generation to generation knowledge is the only wealth that passes. Even today, if you go to most of the Educational Institutions or homes in India and see their prayer rooms, you will definitely find a picture or an idol of Sarasvati as mother goddess and goddess of education, with a river flowing in the back ground.

This is the reason why even after the Sarasvati river dried up and the IVC people moved from Sarasvati river basin to the Ganges river basin, they still remembered the Sarasvati river in the form of person, this is only because something very significant wealth generation in terms of knowledge had happened due to the existence of Sarasvati river which led the Sarasvati river to gain the title as mother goddess and goddess of education. Now, why would the so called Aryan people who were assumed to have arrived long after the dried-up of Sarasvati river and who had not benefited a single bit from Sarasvati river would give her the name of Mother Goddess and goddess of education in Vedas?

If you go this deeper, won't you get the doubt regarding the most fundamental question that was never asked about the whole concept of Ancient India? WHAT IS THE REAL MYTH REGARDING THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF ANCIENT INDIA? My question is whether the present Indian society, who continue to worship Sarasvati river as the mother goddess and the Goddess of Education is a continuation of INDUS VALLEY CIVILIZATION or the so called ARYAN CIVILIZATION? So answer this question to your self.

Once again I thank you for your acknowledgement regarding the addition of river and your patience to read all the above info. I believe, now you might have understood the reason behind my repeated edits regarding the mentioning of the Sarasvati river. IT IS THE ROOT OF THIS MORE THAN 10,000 YEAR OLD TREE.

By Your "Favourite" Editor -- BodduLokesh (talk) 19:38, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Well, the answer may be quite simple: only if you believe that "the Aryans" were a closed culture, which were not influenced by their surroundings, then it would be strange that they mention the Sarasvati river. But if they were a heterogeneous group, or groups, who were open to "external" influences, and who accepted new members wihtin their social organisation, then the explanation is quite simple: older myths were incorporated, together with the people who held those myths; just like "the Aryans" had incorporated myths from Bactria. Only if you believe in a "pure" "essence" or origin, then it would be strange to see a mixing of traditions. But it's quite clear that there's been a continuous mix of cultures in india for thousands of years. Not only the IVC and "the Aryans," but also other cultures and groups. That's bad news for people who believe in pure origins, but common sense for people who take a look around and see that people and cultures continuously mix, and influence each other. The fact that we're communicating here in English is a very good example... Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 20:11, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

@BodduLokesh: Thanks for writing on my talk page. But that is rather too long a message. In future, please try to make it shorter. The mention of "myths" came up because I was reading books that talked about how myth and history get combined in Indian discourse. Saraswati river is highly "mythical" in that my first introduction to it was as a mythical river that came and joined the Ganga and Yamuna in Prayag. This is what was written in all the Puranas, trust me. There was never any mention of a Saraswati river that went to the Arabian Sea. I first found about the real Saraswati river from a David Frawley book and then I discovered it had something to do with the IVC. After looking at everything I could lay my hands on about the IVC (in the 80s), I still had a big question mark because the different pieces of evidence didn't fit. Things are a bit better now because scientists believe that Saraswati could have started drying up around 2000 BC, and Rigveda could have been composed some time before 1500BC. My current thinking on the subject is expressed in my post Talk:Indigenous Aryans#Why the debate.

• As for Rigveda, I don't think it is mentioned anywhere that Saraswati is the "most important" river. We believe that it was probably the most important river because it had the maximum number of hymns associated with it.
• There are actually very easy explanations for the prominence of the Saraswati in the Rig Veda and in fact for the entire development of the Rig Veda. We know for sure that, when Saraswati started drying up, people moved upstream (from Rajasthan to Haryana and Punjab). The Indus economy was totally destroyed. Rains were so low that people gave up agriculture and took to pastoralism. A religion that says that one must appease gods in order for rains to fall and rivers to flow becomes attractive in this situation. And the river that you pray to the most is precisely the river that is drying up.
• The Saraswati in the Rigveda has nothing to do with Saraswati, the goddess of education. In fact, none of the gods that we are familiar with are in the Rigveda, except for Brahma, who was an abstract creator god, not a four-headed one. Vishnu had a minor mention. So did Rudra, who was later identified with Siva. There were no Lakshmi or Parvati or Shakti, in fact no goddesses at all. So, it was a patriarchal community. How did it change into the present day Hinduism? You can read the Hinduism article for some answers.
• I never heard of Saraswati being thought of as a mother goddess. You might be confusing her with Shakti.

And as for Aryans, the current target of myth-making in India, I said in my other post that it is a meaningless term and we should stop using it. It looks like you agree. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 21:12, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

@Kautilya3: @Joshua Jonathan:

• You are absolutely true in mentioning that none of the gods that we are familiar with are in the Rigveda, essentially there is no reqiurement at that time. Taking the case of Saraswati in Rigveda. When the Rigveda was composed there is no requirement in itself to personify Saraswati River in to a human form, because the river was still flowing at its fullest capacity. The personification was done after the Rigveda was composed and the Saraswati has dried-up, and to make the future generation of the civilization aware of their civilization's root.
• Next one, About hearing the personifed Saraswati as the "Mother Goddess of Education", We believe Saraswati is the most important river in the Rigveda not because of most number of mentions but because of most important mentions. In Rigveda while the Saraswati is still flowing and has no requirement for human personification of Saraswati had arised , the Rigveda had not simply mentioned Saraswati as the most important river it mentioned, ámbitame nádītame dévitame sárasvati, "best mother, best river, and best goddess" in RV 2.41.16(The whole mention is for a river not for a human goddess) . I don't think Rigveda or in that sense any records of Vedas ever praise any thing in a lot without appropriate necessity because each any every word is most important because it should be carried down to the future orally for centuries until the perfect script to write them down was developed. A simple mention with the most important word is enough.

If there is a need to praise one's lover(girl friend), a whole book will not sufficient for our modern authors. But for praising one's mother, even today or some 5000 years after or some 5000 years ago, mentioning a single word MOTHER is enough, that itself will explain everything.(In any picture of Saraswati in human form you find her catching a small manuscript(a very samll) in her hand, which is traditionally referred to as The Vedas which is the most important education that is gained by the Vedic people. This is simply to signify that the achievement of Vedas(which is considered by the vedic people as the most important knowledge by those vedic people is only possible by the existence of Saraswati river.

So personification of Saraswati river was done after the composition of Vedas(which happened only because of the existence of the river) after it has dried-up.

Cheers --BodduLokesh (talk) 02:25, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

@BodduLokesh, you're aware that you're "back-reading" your/our own interpretations into the intentions of the composers of the Rig Veda?: "We believe" (emphasis mine). If you want to understand what the Rig Veda meant to those people, you'll have to try to understand what it meant to them, how they used those hymns, how they were composed, etc.

@Kautilya3: yes, turning to pastoralism seems like a likely scenario - which also explains why the "Aryan"/Vedic culture had such an influence. Compare it to the Jews: the Torah reflects the lifestyle of nomadic people. Your mention of the Puranas is also interesting; the Rig Veda is not the only text which shaped the mythological properties of the Sarasvati.

Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 04:41, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

@Joshua Jonathan: You have rightly mentioned that there's been a continuous mix of cultures in India for thousands of years.

But the question is not that simple. Because when one moves to a new society or a culture it is quite natural that they adopt the cultures and traditions of the existing people, because it is essentially necessary to lead a peaceful life. They can adopt the existing people's scared things as equally important and scared to them.

Here, the case is the Sarasvati river has already been dried up and the people of IVC moved to Ganges and now Ganges is their mother and the Sarasvati is their grand-mother. Because Ganges is the life supporter now for the IVC people. Why would someone adopt someone else'e grand mother as their mother? Adopting someone else's mother as their mother is appropriate, if they want to fulfill the purpose of leading a peaceful life in coexistence with the native people, but adopting some one else's grand mother as their mother and making her their mother of knowledge that they gained in all their previous generations is simply not necessary neither relevant even in their point of view.

Now, if the so called Aryans came after the Sarasvati dried-up and the period when Ganges is bearing the status of mother(this mention can be found in later texts such as mostly Puranas and Itihasas). Now if one enters a new culture, it's relevent if they adopt the existing mother river(Ganges) as their mother river too. But why would they adopt the grand-mother(Srasvati river which led IVC to flourish and whose dried up led the people to move to Ganges basin) of the existing people as their mother of knowledge, which is completely not necessary neither relevant even in their point of view.

Its ok if they adopted Ganges as their mother river, because now Ganges is the life supporter for both the existing people and the newly arrived group. But why an already dried up river has been given the status of mother of knowledge in the Vedas that they were assumed to have composed, you have to note the word "Mother", its not a simple thing.

This is one of the most fundamental doubts that should arise for any one as they go deeper into this aspect.

Every one adopted English because it is essentially necessary for everyone irrespective of their origin, to lead a peaceful and constructive life coexisting with each other. English is the one that is globally adopted not the ancient Latin or Greek which once existed. In this case, Ganges is English and Saraswati is Latin or Greek.

And for your mention of "We believe"; I mentioned we believe, in response to the one that was earlier mentioned by Kautilya3. By mentioning "We believe", I,m not mentioning my interpretations of Rigveda but just a response to Kautilya3.(have a look at kautilya3's response)

Cheers.. BodduLokesh (talk) 06:21, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @BodduLokesh: What you are doing here is precisely the kind of myth-making that the authors of my books are talking about. Unfortunately, even though Indians seem to be into myth-making, I am afraid I am not. I read pretty much all the Puranas when I was still in high school, in order to find out the "truth". At the end of it, I decided none of them is true. Advaita is what appealed to me. So, sorry, you can't recruit me into your project.
In any case, Misplaced Pages is not the place to document myths, either our own or other people's. We can only document what the scholars and scientists agree on.
@Joshua Jonathan: People turning to pastoralism because of the climate becoming arid is Madhukar Keshav Dhavalikar's theory. He does cite some evidence for it, but I don't find it definitive. His big theory is that the late Harappans were the "Aryans." Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 06:46, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

@BodduLokesh: read Indo-Aryan migration theory: "the Aryans" did not unitarily adapt to the locals; some locals may have adapted to pastoralism and the Aryan lifestyle, meanwhile also influencing this Aryan culture. Compare it to western Christianity: pledging allegiance to the Bible, meanwhile celebrating Christmas at the winter solicistice, and believing that you go to Heaven after you die. Europe is still full of pre-Christian beliefs, narratives and rituals. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 07:07, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

@Kautilya3: Definitely, what you mentioning is absolutely right. As a global citizen, and a modern learner, the most fundamental objective of a learner should be:

"To be able to come to radical conclusions based on observed facts by using reasoning and logic as the tools, not prejudice and stereotypes".

Your point is 100% true.

I know that the things mentioned in Puranas are myths(the word Purana itself says it), you might be knowing Puranas comes under "Smruti Literature", which takes excerpts of "Sruthi Literature" and explains them to people by imbibing them mythical stories.

Any way, I'm not worried about any of the aspects of Ancient History, because with the advancements of Scientific Techniques in archaeology, and the ever increasing archaeological evidence will ultimately take care of it.

But the only thing that I mention finally is as Abecedare mentioned, that the whole 30,000 years history of Ancient India is summarized in a paragraph and the whole IVC, the root of Indian Civilization in two lines, then each and every word counts. Each and every word should do its best in representing the truth of the Ancient History. So, it would be more genuinely informative, if in the Article India, the Ancient India Section is revised by experienced editors like all you guys to make justice to each and every word mentioned. At the least, there is a genuine need to revise at least the second paragraph of the Ancient India Section. So, I request all of you to think of it.

If you want to have more reliable information about Sarasvati River, you can refer the book, " The Lost River: On The Trail of the Sarasvati ", authored by Michel Danino . I assure you will get the most reliable and authentic information available regrading Sarasvati River from the book.

Finally, I thank all the ones' praticipated in this discussion in making it lead to a constructive outcome.

Best Regards --BodduLokesh (talk) 07:45, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Any way, the most interesting point I acknowledge to mention is,

" You all are putting enormous efforts for wikipedia, may all your efforts continue the spread of genuine information to everyone around the globe. "

Best Regards --BodduLokesh (talk) 09:40, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

@BodduLokesh: Indeed, thanks for the dialogue. If we changed "Indus Valley Civilization" to "Indus-Saraswati Civilization," that would probably satisfy you. Unfortunately, we can't. "Indus Valley Civilization" is the official scientific name. It might still change in future but, for now, that is how things stand. I could try rewording the sentence a bit to make the river valleys come out more prominently. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 10:41, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

As for Michel Danino's book, the citation list has only one published citation, one unpublished one, and a load of Hindu nationalist web site mentions. Unless there is a scholarly review in a journal, we can't be sure if it is worth the trouble. (The problem is that this is a non-scientist writing about a scientific topic. So, we need the scientists to certify it. Otherwise it is fringe.) Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 10:50, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

@Kautilya3: I have no any problem with the name of "Indus Valley Civilization" , let the scholarly community take their own time in deciding it. But the one I requested to look over is that in the Ancient India section , in the second paragraph, at the least there is a genuine need to mention the status of archaeological evidence regarding "Indo-Aryan Migration" in a few words. I will keep this point in the Article's talkpage Talk:India. So, I requested you to think of it.

As for Michel Danino's book, I mentioned it with an intention to make you get through the genuine info(as a personal guide) regarding Sarasvati river, not to site the book as a reference anywhere. My point is that, the book was written with a genuine motive of placing the facts of Sarasvati river to the layman. Anyone who knows about this author can understand his credibility.

Best regards -- BodduLokesh (talk) 14:27, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

@BodduLokesh: Well, the Sarasvati river and Indo-Aryan migration are quite different topics, aren't they? As for the latter, many Indians believe that archaeology is the main discipline that has a say on it. But that is not true. Since "Indo-Aryan" means Sanskrit speakers, it is first of all a question of linguistics. Somewhat shamefully, Indians are no good at linguistics ("shamefully" because linguistics originates with Pāṇini). So, their conclusions are all wrong. Anyway, this issue has been debated to death, and we had an RfC last year, which settled the issue once for all as far as Misplaced Pages is concerned. Unless there is some new evidence that overturns the current state of knowledge, nobody at Misplaced Pages wants to revisit that issue. But I will check to see if the current wording is right. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 15:18, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

@Kautilya3: @Joshua Jonathan: No worries, as the time passes, with the advancing scientific techniques, technologies and new archaeological evidences, the truth will unveil itself. I can happily concentrate on the outcomes rather than the origins of the teachings of our ancient humans', as science and technology will take care of the latter. In fact, our ancient generations wanted the same to happen, that is the reason why they had paid only succinct attention to mention about their origins or history but concentrated more on the outcomes of the learnings of their lifetimes. In this very limited life span(a 100 revolutions of the earth of which almost 1\4th have been completed for me), the most important resource(i.e., time), if spent by keeping in consideration the outcomes of our previous generations as the starting point of our seeking, then the outcome of our lifetime learning would lead to the optimum benefit for the individual in particular and the humankind in general.

If our earth makes a 100 revolutions around the sun, a whole generation is evolved and dissolved, which is a very small thing for the earth but a life time for the generation. The only thing that remains to the next generation is the " wealth of knowledge" that is generated until their previous generation.

That is the reason why modern humans can say, "we stand taller and look farther" than our previous generations.

Any way, thank you once again for considering my point. --BodduLokesh (talk) 17:40, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Blessed are the curious
who keep an open mind
and learn things new
that upset the old,
for there are always
things we never knew
or thought we knew
but just were we bold?

Kautilya3 (talk) 19:20, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Gender categorization

I'm not sure about that, honestly - see the categories under Category:Women writers, for instance. I don't see any particular difference between them and the male writers...gender is as substantial a qualifier for the one as it is for the other. And that seems to have been the operating principle thus far, at least. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 16:13, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

As per WP:OSE, it is not proper to justify violating policies at one place because you think they are violated at another place. Moreover, the subject of "Women writers" has gone through several rounds of CfD's and you will need to look into those to find out why it is justified. If any categorisations of women writers appear to you to be unsourced, plese feel free to challenge them. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 16:49, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Battle of Rajasthan

I have a feeling we have timelines mixed up. Al Mansurah was established by the time of Mohammad bin Qasim, I think. There were two unsuccessful expeditions before bin Qasim. Bin Qasim sent his troops to Saurashtra, and he retreated after a treaty with them. Blankinship mentions a very heavy concern of the Umayyads with Gandhara and taxing their trade to the West as a key policy objective. AshLin (talk) 00:52, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't know all that much about what happened in Sindh. You can check the Muslim conquests on the Indian subcontinent page, which has info on this, mostly taken from Wink.

I am going to be offline for a couple of days. If it becomes necessary, please feel free to take off the "under construction" sign. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 05:43, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Hey

Kautilya,

I noticed that you said you were going to be offline for a few days. If at all possible, could you contact me through <elided>? You seem a very knowledgeable editor on many relevant subjects. Cheers, Tookminds (talk) 23:11, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

@Tookminds:, thanks for your aprpeciation. If you would like to contact me through email, you can use the "Email User" menu item under the "User" menu. It is also not a good idea to put your email address on the web, because they get picked up by web-crawlers for business purposes. (I am not entirely offline, but my wiki-editing is going to be limited for a few days.) Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 23:41, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

A cookie for you!

Cookie for you, from Cookie Monster! CookieMonster755 (talk) 06:15, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Yummie!!! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 07:54, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Merge

@Kautilya3:Fine, thanks for remembering that. I've seen a similar article of such type in wiki which was merged and hence, I have porposed. If you can comment here, it would be helpful for merge or de-merge. Thanks.--Vin09 (talk) 12:21, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

@Vin09: The policies of Misplaced Pages for caste, religion, sexual orientation etc. are quite strict. We need reliable source where they identify themselves as belonging to particular affiliations. That is a tall order. So, it is not worth bothering.

Also, you don't need to "ping" me when you write on my talk page, as I get automatically notified. In general, please use pings only sparingly because they can become disruptive. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 12:26, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Ok fine, thank you. I thought you were busy working in other articles, so used ping. Anyhow thanks for the info. Cheers.--Vin09 (talk) 12:27, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Aristotle and Kant? Here we come!

It is funny to write on my own talk page, but where else do I tell a joke? So, here it goes:

If you had fun reading that, then come over here. Kautilya3 (talk) 14:12, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

References

1. Misplaced Pages's women problem, The New York Review of Books, 29 April 2013.

Thanks

for your thanks. Oddly, 2 hrs ago I was listening to a talk on Kautilya on BBC Radio 4. Cheers, Johnbod (talk) 14:56, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks very much. I didn't know about it. Is this the Sunil Khilnani talk? Found it on iPlayer. Looks like a nice series. A flipside though. Kautilya didn't figure out balance of power, a serious deficiency of Indians in the long run.- Kautilya3 (talk) 15:13, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

That's the one - very good series. Johnbod (talk) 15:15, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Ok, for talk page stalkers, here is the link to the talk on Panini. Hoping for Indians to regain their mastery of linguistics! - Kautilya3 (talk) 15:25, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Good Job

I just opened the Battle of Rajasthan page today in the midst of my studies. I am highly impressed/delighted by the job done there. Very good work. BTW, what does it mean - "Defeat of large expedition against Avanti"? Who is the victor? Please clear there in the table. The table is rightly cut short instead of prolonging it to 1205 AD. Again, I think the term "Indians" should be used instead of "Hindus" as India, to the Arabs, was Al-Hind (Hind being India and Hindus being Indians). :-) Ghatus (talk) 14:39, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks buddy! I am still working on it though, mainly trying to sort out the multiple expeditions of the Arabs. Unfortunately, Blankinship doesn't cover the 9th century, which is when the "decisive battle" is supposed to have taken place. I will still need to research that.

I have only worked on the section titled Campaign of Al-Junayd so far. The other sections are still the old text. Slowly getting there... -- Kautilya3 (talk) 15:03, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Rakhigarhi

brother You asked for citation ,but I'm telling the first hand information as I'm the resident of rakhigarhi itself.If you want proof i can happily provide you.

@Sunillohara: Please put a signature on your messages by appending ~~~~.

Since you have just joined Misplaced Pages, please take time to read through the policies I have put in my welcome message, and learn how things work. You can't write from your personal knowledge on Misplaced Pages. You can only summarise information that appears in published sources. It might seem strange to you, but that is the only way to produce a community-generated encyclopedia. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 15:42, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Google Scholar

Hi Kautilya3. Do you use Firefox? In that case, there's an add-on for Google Scholar, which adds a button to the top-bar. When you select a phrase or title at a page, and you hit the button, a pop-up appears to navigate to google Scholar, witht he searched-for terms. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:49, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi Joshua, thanks for the tip! I use Chrome actually (switched to it when Fiefox became too bulky for my little machines), but I might try Firefox again some time. On Chrome actually, I have a search engine defined for Google Scholar. So I type "scholar <phrase>" into the URL box. What I really need is a similar search engine for Google Books, which I don't know how to define. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 10:43, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Wauw, you're a crack! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 13:49, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Go to Google Books. Right-click within the search-box and "Add as a search engine". Changing keyword to books (or, whatever else you wish) will parallel Kautilya's setting for google scholar. Abecedare (talk) 15:30, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Oh, you are crack master! Kautilya3 (talk) 15:44, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

GK

See this talk page--Human3015 Say Hey!! • 09:27, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

"Pakistan-occupied Kashmir," is a term that is almost universally used in India. I think it is a rude term to use, but I also know that it is a valid term, having read Major General Akbar Khan's book. The term "Indian-occupied Kashmir" is used inside Pakistan in a tit-for-tat way, but nobody has ever produced any evidence that India "occupied" it. So, I am perfectly satisfied with the speedy deletions that have been accepted as well as those that were rejected. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 11:28, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

You might also see G. K. Reddy, who was India's most authentic journalist when he was alive. Most of us grew up reading his front page stories in The Hindu everyday. I was amazed to read that he started his career in J&K, supported its accession to Pakistan, and then went to work in Pakistan after the Partition. This brash and foolish leftist, at that time, didn't realize that India and Pakistan were going to become enemies. Well, he witnessed Pakistan's "occupation" of Kashmir first hand and brought back to India all his evidence, which was then submitted to the United Nations by India. I would love to get my hands on what he wrote. Someday I will. - Kautilya3 (talk) 11:39, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Still, you know, if I'm nominating Indian occupied Kashmir for deletion stating that we should use neutral term "Indian administered Kashmir" then as a non-biased editor I should also nominate other side too. And anyway, even if such kind of article exists still we can't use term "Pakistan occupied Kashmir" in any article, so what the use if it stays or not.--Human3015 Say Hey!! • 11:53, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

No, a non-biased editor follows reliable sources. I have given you the sources. - Kautilya3 (talk) 11:58, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Anti-Indian sentiment vandalism

Please do not blanket remove sourced information which is relevant to the article check anti-Pakistan sentiment article which also includes Indian sources which attempt to explain the sentiments your double standards will not be tolerated. Take it to the talk page. Excipient0 (talk) 22:12, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

@Excipient0: Sorry, I didn't notice that you wrote here, before I wrote my comments on your talk page. Let us continue the discussion there so that everything is in one place. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 07:42, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

@Excipient0: I notice that experienced editors are also trying to control the POV editing on the anti-Pakistan sentiment page. Please don't engage in tit-for-tat editing. Please read and follow policies. If you find others not following policies, please bring it to our attention. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 08:18, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for cleaning up Muslim Conquests on the Indian Subcontinent.Maglorbd (talk) 04:59, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

You are welcome. Many thanks to you in fact for creating so much new content on that page, and also the brilliant map that you produced, which gave me a roadmap for the content on the Battle of Rajasthan page.

I have only proof-read one little section of your content so far. I will do the rest too in the next few weeks. But, overall, I think there is a bit too much detail in your sections. Would you be happy to make this into a separate article on "Arab invasion of Indian subcontinent" (or some such), so that we can write a condensed summary in the main article. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 07:41, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

You read my mind. Most of the stuff will be shifted to "Arabs and Al Hind" once I get around to posting that and I intend to streamline "Muslim Conquests on The Indian Sub-Continent".Maglorbd (talk) 17:15, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Policy education

Dear Kautilya the new pov pusher Human3015 cannot teach me anything first of all he does not know what Synthesis/original research is and it seems you don't either so please don't tell him to guide me he will be blocked eventually as many other nationalists have been before. Excipient0 (talk) 11:08, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Barnstar for completing 5,000 neutral edits on Misplaced Pages. Best luck for future. Happy Wikipeding!! Thank you. Human3015 Say Hey!! • 13:11, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Humanist, for noticing! But, you know, these edit counts mean little. What matters is what we write, and how well we write it. - Kautilya3 (talk) 13:47, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Mahmud of Ghazni

Have you seen my recent changes in Mahmud of Ghazni page? I have edited in "Attitude towards religious freedom" and "Destruction of Somnath Temple" section. I would request you to do some changes in "Regional attitudes towards Mahmud's memory" section. You got the right point yesterday. Several incidents show that Somnath attack had hardy any effect on contemporary Hindu psychology. I am signing off for today.Ghatus (talk) 08:50, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I noticed. Good points and they will do for now. Eventually, we should rewrite the section based on contemporary sources. Plenty of people here know that the Raj era sources are biased and shouldn't be used. But, to rewrite, I will need to go back and re-read the Romila Thapar book. We should actually create a separate article for the Many Voices book. - Kautilya3 (talk) 08:56, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Matangini Hazra

I wanted to edit the article about how she was shot dead. I found these two links. Google books

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Indias-freedom-struggle-told-through-puppets-shadow/articleshow/6744580.cms

But there are other references which mentions the same thing. I can't decide whether my references are better than the existing ones.

This is mobile version:

http://m.speakingtree.in/spiritual-blogs/seekers/self-improvement/greatest-women-freedom-fighters

C E (talk) 10:07, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi CosmicEmperor, These references are not particularly better than the existing ones. But, since the article has only 7 references, most of them inaccessible, there is no harm in adding additional ones. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 10:35, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Darkness Shines

DS believed that Excipient0 is the sock of Nangparbat.Cosmic  Emperor  11:27, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Can't help there as I never ran into Nangparbat. - Kautilya3 (talk) 12:11, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Sitush and Kautilya Sorry for troubling you again, but in no way this User can be neutral https://en.wikipedia.org/User:PakSol --Cosmic  Emperor  12:45, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Ustad Faiyaz Khan

(Talk-page therapy) For a long time, I have been listening to Gulshan Ara Syed's rendition of Hato Kaheko Jhooti. She is a Bangladeshi singer who moved to Pakistan and, for whatever reason, did not particularly shine afterwards. Well, yesterday, I tried to look into where this song came from. I find that it was from Ustad Faiyaz Khan, a legendary singer, whose gharana goes back to Tansen. And, then I find that his tomb in Baroda was vandalised during the 2006 Vadodara riots. What a disgrace! This is not the kind of India that Kautilya wanted to found, is it? - Kautilya3 (talk) 12:30, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

References

1. Muralidharan, Sukumar (11 May 2002). "Cultural vandalism". Frontline. Retrieved 2015-06-05.
2. Rohiniprasad, K. (10 August 2005). "Ustad Faiyaz Khan, the great vocalist". rohiniprasadk.blogspot.co.uk. Retrieved 2015-06-05.

American journalists

The category "American journalists" is designed as a container category; articles are better placed in subcategories where applicable. It needs periodic cleaning out more than anything else. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 16:13, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Roger. No problem. - Kautilya3 (talk) 16:40, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Talk:French colonial empire RFC

Hi, I pulled your name from WP:FRS at random but I was wondering if you could take a look at this RFC. I think we need a third opinion on the matter. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 00:11, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Saraswati River

I find that you removed a chapter from page with heading "Importance". Could you please enlighten me why ? 59.91.222.244 (talk) 04:53, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Just read this news

I'm giving you link of the news which shows perception of people regarding edits on Misplaced Pages. , must read if possible. --Human3015 Call me maybe!! • 13:42, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Old news, but good article. All of us need think more pro-actively about how to make Misplaced Pages a more encouraging place for women. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 15:58, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Re: Building Misplaced Pages

I appreciate the message and the concerns. But you are wrong to assume this. If you check my last edit, I re-named "Indo-Bangladesh enclaves" to "India-Bangladesh enclaves." "Indo" is a prefix that means lots of different things.

I only change words to avoid confusion. Thanks for warning me about the sanctions, I appreciate that. Thank you.

But you are wrong to assume that have a single purpose on Wiki. Have a nice day.--Boxman88 (talk) 03:22, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

@Boxman88: Thanks for responding. I think we can put this issue behind us. However, I note that you are continuing to make edits without writing any edit summaries. This is not proper. Not only does it make it harder to monitor your edits (all of us monitor the pages on our watch lists), but it would be also wrong when you change existing material without justification. So, can I urge you to write edit summaries? - Kautilya3 (talk) 08:10, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

No I wrote edit summaries in many edits. I just thought it's confusing to add "India" instead of "Indian subcontinent" and "Indo-" instead of Indian on Indian topics because Indo can mean more than just Indian. But I've edited many pages besides topics on India so, it's not one purpose. I'll make in effort to make edit summaries more often.--Boxman88 (talk) 18:33, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

And also can I ask you the Hindi spelling of shashlik? Because the Urdu spelling exists but since it's also eaten in India, can I ask you for the Hindi spelling so I may add it? In Hindi alphabet please. Thank you--Boxman88 (talk) 18:46, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

I meant the edits you made today, e.g., at Anti-Pakistan sentiment, didn't have edit summaries. I haven't checked everything you edited. But if you are writing edit summaries at other places, that is fine. Thanks. As for the Hindi spellings, I really don't know how to type in Devnagari or any other Indian language for that matter. I am English-bound. - Kautilya3 (talk) 22:27, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi

A good step in resolving that conflict by starting a DRN! Ping Human correctly! And I have replied at the thread, let's hope it's successful. Good job at getting the page protected. But why do you think that I demand the restoration of the direct quote and the removal of EU report? Faizan (talk) 16:56, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi Faizan, thanks for your agreement. I am glad. I didn't realize you meant "bowdlerize" in a positive way. All the best! - Kautilya3 (talk) 22:42, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Third Place in WikiProject India Tag & Assess 2014!

		WikiProject India Tag & Assess 2014 Third Place
		To Kautilya3, who came third place in WikiProject India Tag & Assess 2014! The results can be viewed here (And you thought you had a bad score). ‑Ugog Nizdast (talk) 19:06, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

RfC: Religion in infoboxes of nations

There is an RfC that you may be interested in at Template talk:Infobox country#RfC: Religion in infoboxes of nations. Please join us and help us to determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 14:32, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Bots

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Babri Masjid

I reverted that edit on Babri Masjid because it seemed like it was Hindutva and it was an IP. I'm not opposed to reviewing stuff, but it's Ramadan since last night and this is when the ... difficult people, shall we say? ... come out of the woodwork. They come out on both sides during holy periods, but tbh in Ramadan is when we get a ton of angry Islamophobes.

I worry about tone on Babri Masjid, as it was a particularly horrendous moment of one-sided Hindutva communal violence. We need to make sure it doesn't get watered down any more than it already is, no matter how awful the communal violence was that was directed the other way (i.e. the 1993 Mumbai attacks et. al.), and people really work to water it down. Ogress _smash! 17:11, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi Ogress, no worries. I love all the work you do. As for the Babri Masjid, I have all the pages on my watch list, and I know both the sides of the dispute quite well. We shouldn't brush aside genuine Hindu grievances because that only gives fillip to the Hindutva forces. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 17:51, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

3RR

Just a heads up that are you are at WP:3RR at Caste system in India. You really want to avoid reverting again for a couple of days (and hopefully it won't be needed) as any stray admin that walks by will likely blind block you with your next, the 4th. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 00:30, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

A discussion involving you in ANI

Hi, I have created a discussion on the recent issues regarding WP:Caste system In India in ANI and specifically reported suspicious behavior of concerted behavior of a group of editors including you. Have a look. AB 08:21, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

You are just wasting everybody's time. I would recommend that you withdraw the ANI issue and, instead, spend your time reading and understanding Misplaced Pages policies. - Kautilya3 (talk) 08:23, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I wrote those. Policies.. ( Now that's in lighter vain, don't report me for this! :-o )) AB 10:32, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Your editing at the Jawaharlal Nehru page

Dear Kautilya, as i understand full citations are not a requirement. I have seen several wikipedia articles with short citations. I had given the book title and author name in the edit, and here is a wikipedia page about citing sources which describes how to give short citations. This business of short citations concerns the two books i had cited. With respect to the two online articles i cited, only the name of author, date, and name of publication are missing but they are also missing in many other references i have seen in wikipedia articles. I also wish you could have had the decency and courtesy to make a request on my talk page to give additional details with respect to the citations instead of removing the edits altogether. Soham321 (talk) 14:16, 26 June 2015 (UTC) Of the two online articles i gave as reference, one (The Economic Times article) seems to be an editorial because it does not mention any author.Soham321 (talk) 14:24, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi Soham, a revert was the easiest thing I could do, both for myself and you. All you had to do was to do undo my revert along with full citations. You were editing a B-class article, and you are required to maintain the current citation style as well as its quality level in doing your edits. When experienced users do a poor job, we often accommodate it and clean up after them. But you have been here long enough to be able to look after yourself. If you don't know how to add full citations, I am happy to help. But please don't expect me or anybody else to add in the citation information that you have neglected to add. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 18:02, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

If you see the Nehru article, you will note that the references 61 and 62 (books by Ghose and Kopstein) are adopting the short citation style (these are references to books). These references were not given by me but by other editors of the article. So you are wrong when you claim i was not maintaining the current citation style. Since i have added the more complete citations now, i obviously know how to do so, But the point is that are you now going to keep deleting my edits if i use the short citation style for books in articles where this style has been adopted by other editors editing the main article? Is this not an instance of disruptive editing on your part?Soham321 (talk) 18:17, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Do you see that Ghose 1991 is a hyperlink? Can you click on it and see where it takes you? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 18:55, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

You are right. I did not notice Ghose 1991 is a hyperlink. As of now the only problematic reference i could see is reference 45 (Yasmin Khan); there seems to be some error in this reference. At any rate, i withdraw my earlier comments. I agree that the citation style ought to be maintained throughout the article in a consistent manner. Soham321 (talk) 19:10, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Great, so we are friends again? I know that getting reverted feels bad. I don't do it lightly. When we get time, we should fix whatever missing citations there are in important articles. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 19:18, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

FYI

. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 04:35, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

need support

please do delete the speedy contest deletion message from the article and help to make the article in an elegant manner https://en.wikipedia.org/Sridhar_babu_addanki swaroop 07:12, 4 July 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sakthi swaroop (talk • contribs)

Sorry, I know nothing about the subject. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 00:38, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Nellie Massacre

If your wondering, this discussion ended a long time ago. I forgot to reply to his last statement though. Nonetheless, the user was a sock himself so it truly did end. AcidSnow (talk) 20:02, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Indeed, thanks for following up! Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 00:40, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

One Last Comment

Hi, it will be better if you make one last comment regarding Kashmir conflict DRN. Probably thread is going to be closed as "failed", User talk:Steven Zhang#Kashmir Conflict. --Human3015 knock knock • 12:15, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

India as a Secular State

Hi Kautilya, you wrote on the Jawaharlal Nehru talk page that you have a physical copy of the book India as a Secular State. This being the case, why don't you consider contributing to the Synopsis section of India as a Secular State? I have so far given the synopsis for the first two parts out of the 7 parts in this book. Please consider giving the synopsis for some of the remaining parts. Soham321 (talk) 03:18, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

You don't have the book yourself? I have a copy borrowed from the library, and have looked at certain portions that were cited here. I haven't read the whole book, or even a substantial portion of it. It is very difficult to write a good synopsis of a deep, scholarly work like this without spending a significant amount of time. A much better strategy is to look through the book reviews, which generally contain a good summary of the contents. The Galanter and Flint reviews would be the first things to look at, because Smith gave them a rejoinder. If you don't have access to JSTOR, I can send you copies of the reviews. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 10:49, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

I do have a physical copy of the book, otherwise i would not have been able to give the synopsis of the first three (out of seven) sections of the book. I prefer not to rely on reading reviews of the book to give the synopsis of the book. Smith's rejoinder would invariably contain additional material (that is not present in the book) since he was responding to criticism of the book. Soham321 (talk) 16:02, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Discretionary sanctions notification - India, Pakistan, and Afganistan

Please carefully read this information:

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 07:13, 19 July 2015 (UTC)Template:Z33