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Talk:Saint Patrick's Day/Archive1

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More Info on Origins

I read or heard somewhere, that origin of the parades in the U.S. started with the British during the Revolutionary War, in order to get more men enlisted to their side. They were also the ones who introduced the non-Irish, but rather Scottish Bagpipes into the parade. I don't have any citations or references for this tidbit. But if this is true, it should clearly be included here. Since bagpipes seem to be a staple in the U.S. parades, also parties.

Interesting! I've always wondered about the bagpipe thing, since they are generally identified more with Scotland than with Ireland. I don't know if it's true either (in all honesty, it has a slight urban legend vibe), but it's certainly worth a mention if there's truth to it. MrBook 21:15, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd love to know how St. Patrick's Day went from a religious holiday to a day of drinking and partying, because it's an odd transition.-RomeW 23:38, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I hope you find time to read my entry on "paddywhackery" below!--PeadarMaguidhir 11:26, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Pinching

Can someone please adress the whole pinching thing. I really hate getting pinched on St. Patricks day when I forget to wear green and I'd liked to know how it started.--The_stuart 17:30, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Archival

I archived old talk on 23:02, 15 March 2006 (UTC). --Neutrality 23:02, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

HAPPY SAINT PATRICK'S DAY TOMORROW MARCH 17, 2006. It's 18:19 on Thur March 16, 2006 in Santiago(City NE of Cordon),Isabela,Philippines. My site is at http://www.michaelmanalolazo.go.cc MichaelManaloLazo

And to you. Although I'm suprised such a Christian name like St. Patrick's Day isn't rebranded as Leprechaun Day in the USA yet. CrazyInSane 22:08, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

...A little bigoted, isn't that? If anything the name "Christmas" is a bit more "Christian." And believe it or not, we're not anti-Christian. In fact, we're mostly Christian. --EndTasked 00:39, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the term 'Christmas' is virtually extinct in America these days.. they use "Holiday"...ever watch a commercial during the Christmas season?CrazyInSane 01:27, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

That's so they can market stuff to the broadest range of people, not out of persecution against the poor long-suffering Christians. Trust me, Christianity in the U.S. is more than safe. MrBook 14:00, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not so sure. I think the principles of Christianity (love your enemy, turn the other cheek, do good to the poor) in the U.S. are under pretty severe attack from the Fundamentalists. Angr/talk 16:00, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

An excellent point. Christianity is in danger, but "Christianity" is doing great. MrBook 16:20, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Sláinte! ~ Ross (ElCharismo) 16:15, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Needed Citations

Some of these "citation needed" marks could be removed, couldn't they? An example would be where it states what sort of festivities go on. That's sort of like "People give presents on Christmas. "

Last time I checked it was against Wiki policy to attack a page with "citation needed" as the vast majority of articles are undercited anyhow. That this page needs more citations is undoubtable......that it needs "citation needed" every two sentences is not. It currently looks ugly. Slizor 00:40, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

No, what's against Wiki policy is making unverifiable claims. If you think all the "citation needed" tags look ugly, the way to get rid of them is to verify the claims they make. Angr/talk 10:56, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

It's ridiculous, though, to have so many. I agree with Slizor. I'm ashamed that this article, which so many people will surely read today, currently stands as a monument to one of Misplaced Pages's most lamentably bureaucratic tendencies. Does every sentence of every article either need a citation or a "citation needed" these days? Frankly, I think a wiser policy would be to note where citations are needed on an article's talk page instead. Attentiveness to sources need not preclude aesthetics.

Furthermore, there is a difference between claims which are unverifiable and claims which are unsourced. That's something to think about too. --BDD 16:59, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the number of citation flags is excessive. Also, a lot of information seems to be copy and pasted from here. I'm trying to figure out exactly what. This article really needs a lot of work. --Fang Aili 17:13, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

"Disputed edits can be removed immediately and placed on the talk page for discussion, or where the edit is harmless but you dispute it and feel a citation is appropriate, you can place after the relevant passage. This should be used sparingly; Misplaced Pages has a lot of undercited articles, and inserting many instances of is unlikely to be beneficial." http://en.wikipedia.org/Citation_needed#When_there_is_a_factual_dispute Slizor 14:26, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Northern and Southern Ireland did not exist at the time of the Battle of the Somme. These only came into existence under the Government of Ireland Act 1920.

Happy St Patrick's Day

Happy St Patricks Day to all Wikipedians, especially to those who are Irish at heart.--File Éireann 01:12, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

And to you! I'm currently trying to enlighten my Swedish mates; most of them have never even heard of this day. --TheFinalFraek 09:19, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Locking?

Should we have this page locked for the day? Seems it has been the victim of multiple acts of vandalism today. Cliph 15:04, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it's necessary. It's nothing we can't keep on top of, and it's on the Main Page today, so protecting it should really be a last resort. Angr/talk 15:08, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Did someone go into this page and change all the references of the color green to purple? Am I just crazy or is someone pulling an early April Fool's joke? -Rand (Austin, Tx) 3/17/2006 9:26 am Central Standard Time

Looks like it has been fixed. -Rand

The first section seems to have been tampered with. Everywhere it should read green it says purple, even in the picture captions. - Milena (3/17/2006) 4:42pm Central European Time

Good Day to visit the Irish Museum?

I came to look at the Saint Patrick's Day page and all I saw was a flag of a hammer and sickle on a red backround and the mentioned items in gold. I scrolled down to find "Misplaced Pages is Communism" I do hope all the pranks stop so people needing the page can use it. -angelRinny (Saint Clair Shores, MI) 3/17/2006 4:44pm Eastern Standard Time

Flags

St Patrick is the patron saint of the whole island of Ireland. Should we include a flag to represent Nortern Ireland? Dbnull 15:33, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

• I don't see why the republic's flag is there in the first place - it has no intrinsic link to St Patrick's Day. I'm removing it. --Kwekubo 01:18, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

• I restored the flag. It is very relevant to the concept of being "Irish for a day", wearing the colors of the flag, the fact that people wave Irish flags at parades, the association with the country, etc. Johntex\ 01:26, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

• For disambiguation purposes shall we at least start by changing the text underneath the tri-colour from 'The Irish Flag' to 'The Flag of the Republic of Ireland'? The current text is misleading and helps perpetuate a common misconception (especially in the USA) that the tri-colour represents the geographical island of Ireland. If flags are to be included then there should be flags that represent both geo-political regions of the island. Comments? Dbnull 02:47, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

• I'm changing the text under the flag. Dbnull 14:30, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks Dbnull - I think it is a good change. Johntex\ 15:41, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Wearing Orange

Is it true that Protestants are supposed to wear oranges —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Keeperoftheseal (talk • contribs) 16:39, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

For some people, green is associated with catholocism, and orange is associated with protestantism. (see Orange Institution). For some people, the colors are a political statement about whether North Ireland should stay part of the UK or become part of the Irish Republic. Some people choose to wear both orange and white, such as the colors of the Irish flag. For most American's at least, green is associated with being Irish (even if only for a day) and attending the Saint Patrick's Day festivals, and whether or not you get pinched at school, etc... Johntex\ 00:29, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

It may be of interest to some to know that Dubliners of the old stock considered the color green as unlucky, and refused to have green objects in their homes--PeadarMaguidhir 07:54, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Changing our shade of green

The color green we have in our infobox, {#00DE00} certainly is green, but I don't think this color is what people would think of when they think of green and Saint Patrick's Day. I think they think of a color more like that of a shamrock, or like that of the green in the Irish Flag. I'm trying out a shade I think is better. Please let me know what you think. Johntex\ 00:36, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Infobox photo

do you think the infobox photo should be changed to something more appropriate? Like this one? Maybe someone could crop it so it shows his arms and head? 20 march 2006.

• I don't think so. I think the new proposed image is better for Saint Patrick perhaps. The imsage we are already using is better for Saint Patrick's Day. Johntex\ 15:27, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

PICTURES!!!

Can someone add some pictures from the 2nd biggest parade, in Savannah! I live here, but don't know exactly how.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.155.48.210 (talk • contribs) 16:26, 2006 March 21 (UTC)

• That would be great! On the left hand side of your window, below the search box, there is a link that says "Upload file" - if you click on that link, there are instructions about how to upload a photo, and how to place it in the image. If you run into any trouble, you can ask for help by posting to WP:HELP. Best, Johntex\ 01:05, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Holy Week

If it falls in Holy Week, it is moved to the second Monday after Easter.

What?! I'm removing this sentence. If anyone wants to put it back in, can you please back this statement up? The earliest date under the Gregorian calender on which Easter Sunday can fall is March 22nd. This would put Paddy's Day on the Monday after Palm Sunday (which is a relatively unimportant day of Lent). I can't see why it would be moved. (Also, the last year this happened was 1818, the next will be 2225.) Dave 00:07, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Paddywhackery

As a native-born Irishman, a lot of the paddywhackery, especially American paddywhackery, associated with Saint Patrick's Day makes me want to puke. For one thing, no one in Ireland--except for certain entertainers, whose livelihood is gained by pandering to the expectations of green-clad Americans--would ever say "Saint Paddy's Day." It should be remembered that the first to celebrate St. Patrick's Day in America were Protestant "gentlemen," who dined at various good-quality inns; they wore the color blue, that color being then associated with the Feast.

The British government encouraged the celebration of Saint Patrick's Day as a "national day," because (at least, at the time) it had religious rather that political--i.e. rebel--connotations. Trooping the Colors at Dublin Castle was the annual contribution of the British authorities. It was essential to reinforce the ideology that even the "mere Irish" were happiest when serving their British overlords.

In New York, the parade was soon taken over by the Ancient Order of Hibernians, a right-wing, (some would say Fundamentalist), and certainly male chauvinist Catholic organization, who wanted to define for themselves what constituted "Irishness," an ethos very much removed from that of today's Irish population, as evidenced by the opposition to gays and lesbians. Seen from outside, their conception of "Irishness" is closer to that of the 19th century than to that of the Ireland of today.

But, in the United States, apart from the ridiculous practice of dressing up in green, the most odious aspect of St. Patrick's Day is the apparent license it gives to all to drink to excess. (The term "drowning the shamrock" comes from the tradition of the "Protestant gentlemen" putting their shamrock in the glass when the last toast was drunk.) When I was a child in Ireland, the day was celebrated primarily as a religious holiday, with obligatory attendance at Mass for Catholics. In those days, the public houses were shut on St. Patrick's Day. Even this year (2006), the off-licenses (liquor stores) were requested not to open until 4:00 pm, a request that was largely honored. The parade, during my childhood, was an industrial parade, intended to show Ireland's merits as a base for industry--another idea from Taoiseach (prime minister) Seán Lemass, intended to improve Ireland's miserable economy.

However, in the United States, those who would be Irish consider the day as a "National Let's-All Get-As-Drunk-As-We-Can Day." Greeting cards, including ecards on the Net, are laden with the stereotype of Irish drunks; no other ethnic group in the United States would condone this practice, which can often quickly lead to racial slur.--PeadarMaguidhir 11:13, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Source (for historical details): Cronin, Mike and Daryl Adair: The Wearing of the Green: A History of Saint Patrick's Day.London and New York:Routlage, 2002, 2006.--PeadarMaguidhir 09:48, 10 July 2006 (UTC) 09:46, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

St Patrick Day Traditions

since when is getting a "guinness hat" a tradition - its simply a marketing gimmick that has been going about 4 years - hardly qualifies as a tradition