Misplaced Pages

OK, all of the arguments about content should stay on the article's talk page. As for the rest - apart from someone telling you two to leave each other the hell alone, what administrative remedy are you seeking here? What do you want us to do? UltraExactZZ ~ Did 14:29, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

He should desist from communicating with me, making edit summary threats, launching endless POINTY accusations, especially at AFD discussions, and bring whatever issues he may have in future to an objective third party or admin. Quis separabit? 14:39, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Since Obsidian Soul says that she or he does not want to interact with Rms125a, and Rms125a doesn't seem to want to get communications from Obsidian Soul, that sounds to me like both editors would be glad to have an interaction ban between them. If both were to indicate their agreement here, it can be logged and this thread could be closed. BMK (talk) 15:05, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

So no one actually sees the problem with his edits, huh? Go figure. You really believe his little story about finding it fascinating that someone's mother has 18 children by 3 men and is hinted to be a sex worker, and that's why he labels it as "very important biodata"? Or the fact that he picked the one part in a long news article that can be taken the wrong way (nepotism) and then includes it in Misplaced Pages under a bullshit rationale of using a reliable source that someone else recommended to him?

Regardless if they are in the sources or were actually spoken (in jest) by the subjects, they violate WP:BLP. And he's doing it in the obvious hope that a third party would notice that the links I gave in support of my Keep !votes in his AfDs (as he's emphasized a few times) may have some things that are sensationalist. That is WP:POINTY is it not?

Let me ask just one question to the administrators here: are his two additions to those articles potentially libelous or not? If you can say no to that and can restore those content in good conscience per WP:BLP, then I would accept an WP:IBAN. If not then no. I dislike interacting with him intensely, but I'd rather not have my ability to fix his childishness gimped by bureaucratic bullshit if no one else bothers to do so. I spent 30 minutes fixing his indent trolling in his last frivolous AN/I just to make it readable because no one else apparently saw any problem with that behavior either.

And no. Despite my dislike of him as an editor, this is not personal. I suggest looking at his actions, not his words.-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 18:23, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

"You really believe his little story about finding it fascinating that someone's mother has 18 children by 3 men and is hinted to be a sex worker" -- I hinted she was a "sex worker"?? That's news to me. Since the quote came from her daughter, I seriously have to wonder where the "sex worker" angle came in. Because this is the first time I am hearing it.

I just caught the error by another editor in synopsizing my editing, and I must, as a moral imperative, clarify that I did not say "3 men", I said "3 husbands", as per her own daughter (Bovick)'s comments. Quis separabit? 01:47, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

While you do that, you should also clarify that you copied the whole paragraph verbatim without quotes (yes that's WP:COPYVIO too, but whatever). The author said "husband". Not you.-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 02:29, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

"are his two additions to those articles potentially libelous or not?" - If they are they delete them and block me. I no longer give a shit. By all means let him fix what he finds objectionable and I will ask for advice from a third party if I disagree.

"I spent 30 minutes fixing his indent trolling in his last frivolous AN/I just to make it readable because no one else apparently saw any problem with that behavior either" -- indenting obsession paranoia (again; see above); I don't know how I am screwing up so badly at indenting yet no one else mentions it.

(Redacted) Quis separabit? 18:47, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

That last paragraph went way over the line. Don't do that. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:59, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Sorry. Quis separabit? 19:21, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Proposal

Since Rms12a@hotmail.com and Obsidian Soul didn't respond to my suggestion for a voluntary interaction ban, but preferred to keep sniping at each other instead, I propose a non-voluntary interaction ban imposed by the community; your standard off-the-shelf pret a porter iBan, with no unusual bells and whistles.

Not even going to answer my question? This isn't even a content dispute. Were his edits in good faith and do they pass WP:BLP? It's a simple enough question that actually addresses the underlying problem to all this. An iBan is convenient, but it doesn't fix anything. Unless you're actually agreeing that I'm doing this to "stalk" and "harass" him? -- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 23:41, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

• Support - As proposer. BMK (talk) 23:16, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

I apologize, @Beyond My Ken -- I was unaware of the "suggestion for a voluntary interaction ban" thus did not apologize reply, although I have been keeping tabs on this page obviously and did not see anything which required my response. Apologies. I need to read upon on IBAN; hopefully it will work. I will contact you if I have any questions. Thanks. Quis separabit? 00:06, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

@BMK: I think I understand. One question -- if a there is an edit that needs or can be substantively improved made by the other IBAN-involved editor, does one go to AN/I or start a talkpage discussion? How would that be handled, in the unfortunate event that such a situation arose? Thanks in advance for the 411. Quis separabit? 00:10, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you bring your suggested change to the talk page, and allow another editor to make the change if they agree with it. You do not revert the edit yourself, or engage in discussion with the editor you're I-Banned with. BMK (talk) 02:32, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

• Support The interaction between the users is toxic. Rms125a@hotmail.com appears to have made good faith attempts to learn from his mistakes and even if his attempts have been imperfect Obsidian Soul's rebuff goes far beyond a simple failure to AGF. If these two editors plan on working anywhere 'near' each other at least an interaction ban will provide consequences for continuing the conflict. Interaction bans do often cause trouble but in this case letting the situation fester seems worse. It would be better if both editors accepted the IBAN voluntarily but Obsidian Soul appears to have refused above. Jbh 00:30, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

"Appears". And still no one actually seeks to understand why I reverted him or why I left a note concerning his edits, other than just assuming it's a personal vendetta. Even though unlike him, I don't have a history of such behavior. I accept the voluntary iBan, if that's the only thing you can come up with. I'm tired. -- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 01:01, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

@Obsidian Soul: Yes, I did seek to understand both of your positions before I commented. I think you, quite rightly, got angry at some poorly researched AfDs and the conflict spun out of control from there. You were right Rms125a was making some bad nominations and they have admitted it. What you see as POINTy behavior I choose to see, barring clear evidence otherwise, as an attempt to learn, move on and work to repair damage caused by carelessness. This is what we want editors to do and we are bound to assume good faith when others try correct mistakes. I hope the iBan will give each of you time and distance to see each other as something other than opponents. I do empathize with your frustration, assuming good faith can at times be a pain but without that all conflicts here would turn into iBans and Misplaced Pages would close up because no one could talk with each other. Jbh 01:32, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

These aren't clear enough? . He's not that stupid or (given his time on Misplaced Pages) that clueless about WP:BLP as to not realize that what he inserted say pretty terrible things about the subjects. When he seemingly retracted his bad AfDs ("reluctantly" as he characterized it), I didn't comment. That was AGF. But then he added those. What will he do next to "repair damage" in the AfDs that gets kept? Insert another titillating factoid bordering on scandalous from one of the sources I gave to demonstrate GNG? There's assuming good faith, and then there's swallowing bullshit. That said, moot point. As long as he doesn't do anything like that again (and no, I don't mean the AfDs), I'll be absolutely ecstatic if I don't ever deal with him ever again. -- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 01:56, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Obsidian_Soul RMS's edits did not violate BLP. He had multiple reliable sources for what he was putting in , the sources said what he said they said, so no BLP violations. KoshVorlon 11:15, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

KoshVorlon: I've quoted the applicable lines from WP:BLP below. Also take note that the policies on WP:DUE and WP:COPYVIO are also relevant here.

WP:BLP: Biographies of living persons ("BLPs") must be written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy. Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid: it is not Misplaced Pages's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives; the possibility of harm to living subjects must always be considered when exercising editorial judgment. This policy applies to any living person mentioned in a BLP, whether or not that person is the subject of the article, and to material about living persons in other articles and on other pages, including talk pages.

WP:BLPSTYLE: Criticism and praise should be included if they can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, so long as the material is presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a disinterested tone. Do not give disproportionate space to particular viewpoints; the views of tiny minorities should not be included at all. Care must be taken with article structure to ensure the overall presentation and section headings are broadly neutral. Beware of claims that rely on guilt by association, and biased, malicious or overly promotional content.

WP:BLPGOSSIP:Avoid repeating gossip. Ask yourself whether the source is reliable; whether the material is being presented as true; and whether, even if true, it is relevant to a disinterested article about the subject.

Arespacochaga is a musician in a highly successful band in the Philippines in the 90s. Do you think mentioning his parents' connections to politicians and high-ranking executives in show business when he was growing up is relevant to the article? Bovick in turn is an actress. Does her mother's occupation (btw, in case most of you are as clueless as he is, "dancer in Cubao" is a euphemism for strippers), number of husbands and children, also qualify as "very important biodata"? Take into consideration that the articles as they stand are virtually empty of anything else.

Lastly, he did not find those sources. Neither did he use "multiple reliable sources" for the claims. He used one each (this for Bovick and this for Arespacochaga), all of them are sources that I found and gave in support of the AfD discussions on them. Both of them are published by reliable secondary sources (a national newspaper and a national TV network, respectively). Both of them are lengthy articles discussing the subjects' lives. And while the sources themselves are reliable, the content ranged from factual information to irrelevant trivia (that again, can be taken as libelous in the wrong context). He ignored all the rest of the information, and copied just those paragraphs verbatim to our articles, improper tone and untranslated Taglish and all. You really think there are no problems with that?

Just because a source is reliable, doesn't mean you should treat everything in it is appropriate for a Misplaced Pages article. Otherwise we might as well go ahead and add the snippet about Bovick showing her boobs at her first audition.-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 17:18, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Obsidian Soul I saw your response, but waited to see if anyone else wanted to weigh in first. To answer you, BLPGossip would apply if what was in the articles was actually gossip. you removed | this from Paco Arespacochaga and | this from Aleck Bovick . The source for Paco was found in the GMA network, which is described as "a major commercial television and radio network in the Philippines.", not a tabloid, a major network. The source for Aleck Bovick was PhilStar, aka Philippine Star was is described as "...the leading print and digital newspaper in the Philippines..." again, not a tabloid, but the leading newspaper, a tabloid wouldn't be described that way. Second, both links quote either the band or the person as the source for their information, so no, it's not gossip.

As for BLPSTYLE, what you removed was less than 1 paragraph of information, that by itself makes it no a style violation, more importantly, it didn't involve guilt by association, etc...

As for BLP itself, the wording was actually conservative, it could have been worded a lot worse (and a lot more un-conservatively!) Again, the sources in both cases were either the band or the artist themselves, as reported by reliable sources.

So, none fail BLP, and no one else has supported this claim either. You appear to be whitewashing both entries, in effect, removing things you don't like. Lay off that article and RMS as well. KoshVorlon 16:09, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

KoshVorlon You just repeated what I said. -_- I'll say this again for the millionth time: the sources are from ME. I gave them to him to support my Keep !vote in the AfDs on them. Even how you described GMA and PhilStar is almost exactly like how I described them to him. Because unlike you, he didn't bother to find out about them at all initially.

And read it again: "whether, even if true, it is relevant to a disinterested article about the subject." - gossip does not mean false. Sensationalism is also gossip. The giving of undue weight to information or events which are irrelevant to the subject matter but are exciting to the reader. Trivia. It doesn't matter if it comes from the subjects themselves, or whether even if they are true. The question is if they're relevant to their notability and appropriate for an encyclopedic article on them. I asked you if you understood what WP:DUE WEIGHT means and its significance in BLP articles. And I have my answer. You do not.

Yes, I removed 1 paragraph of information in each article which each had around 4 sentences in total. That is the entire point. They were the lengthiest part of the articles and they had nothing to do with why they were notable. That is undue weight.

Lastly, you saying that the wording itself is "conservative" is the part where I can truly tell that you didn't read or understand what I wrote previously. Both are COPYRIGHT VIOLATIONS. He copied the paragraphs without changing anything from the articles. One of them (on Bovick) included a joke (in Taglish) by Bovick that her mother died of blood loss due to having too many children (she didn't, she died by leukemia). Both of them are literally taken out of context, and the tone is literally that of your usual "showbiz news" segments. How you can characterize that as conservatively written is beyond me.

WP:BLP is not simply about WP:RS, it's also about context and due weight. If it wasn't, what prevents me from adding the part from the same article where Bovick confesses that she showed her breasts in her first audition? Or do you think that that's perfectly okay too?

He has explicitly stated that he wants to delete the "Miley Cyruses" from Misplaced Pages. He ignored all the earlier comments on his refusal to do a WP:BEFORE until very recently when too many (non-Filipino) editors started chiming in, and has stated that he has no intentions of going over possibly wrongly deleted AfDs in the past. So I highly doubt that he added those paragraphs out of the goodness of his heart either.

I'll ignore the accusation of whitewashing. That's pretty much what RMS originally accused me of too, and the reason why I lost my temper originally. Just note that I have edited those articles a grand total of ONCE. I do not write articles on Philippine pop celebrities, nor am I a fan of any.

Also note that I have never posted on his talk page. I have only interacted with him on the AfDs in question, on the topic on his AfDs in the Philippine Wikiproject (which I did not start and involved a lot more editors), and here in AN/I (which he started). Note as well that I have only posted in his AfDs when they were listed at the Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Philippines. I did not find them by looking at his contribs. I didn't even notice his edits on Arespacochaga's and Bovick's articles until he explicitly mentioned them in their AfDs. I have also been commenting on other AfDs in that list, and not all of my !votes are a mindless "Keep".

He, on the other hand, has taken me to AN/I three times, accused me (and at least a couple of other editors) of stalking and gaming the system, accused me of COI, and slyly accused me of either sockpuppetry/meatpuppetry (from what I can tell anyway) in another AfD because I misread a name of another !voter, and (despite his innocent protestations otherwise) intentionally added {{od}} templates after every single paragraph since I first indicated that he was misusing them.

And after all that, you think that it is I who was doing the harassing? Is it because he talks so much nicer around here? I've made no secret of my temper, nor do I believe that WP:AGF trumps WP:SPADE at all times. And this right here, is absolute horseshit. No worries about me leaving RMS alone though. As I've said repeatedly, to me, interacting with him is at most a necessary unpleasantness that I would very much prefer to avoid. But yes, good point, no one has stepped up to back me up or even just confirmed my worries. Not even simple factual things like the copyright violation. That disturbs me more than you think with regards to the state of the "community".

Carry on then. -- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 18:55, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Question(s)

What is the OP alleging, and where are the diffs to support his allegations? (Otherwise, this thread is just a meaningless series of backbiting and bickering.) And what remedies is the OP possibly seeking (or else why post here?)? Softlavender (talk) 18:30, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Legal threats on Tube/Subway Challenge

Raising this here since it's ongoing: shifting IP addresses (apparently socks of User:Palkanetoijala) are making strong legal threats on the Tube Challenge and Subway Challenge articles and talk pages, claiming to be acting on behalf of a challenge world-record holder who wants his name removed from Misplaced Pages.

They're not being very clear, but so far as I can tell from this talk page, the user wants Misplaced Pages to include an unspecified (and presumably unsourced) "actual fastest time" for the London record, and believes that holding a sourced world record is some kind of useful bargaining chip because they mistakenly think that Misplaced Pages does not have the "rights" to mention a person's name without their permission. They seem to be saying that if Misplaced Pages won't include the unsourced record, then the record holder won't let Misplaced Pages include the sourced one either, and they've been making capslock "25 days to comply" legal threats as a result.

Since this claims to be coming from a named individual and this IP talk page says "stop this hello contact me by email" and gives an email address, is there someone who could talk to them directly? --McGeddon (talk) 09:52, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

I've dropped them an email through OTRS. Mdann52 (talk) 10:13, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Previous report on this case Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive900#Legal threat by IP. —Farix (t | c) 11:34, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

As an addendum, I would also suggest semi-protecting the talk page because the only posts from IPs for the last few days have been to repeat the legal threat. —Farix (t | c) 15:15, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

It's actually already been semi-protected for this reason, since yesterday. --McGeddon (talk) 18:15, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

I have blocked the IP for making legal threats. Since this person changes IPs often I made it a short block. HighInBC 01:55, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Just an FYI, the repeatedly blocked editor has returned with a new IP to edit Tube Challenge. I'll leave it up to others to determine whether to revert the edit or block the editor or reprotect the article. Deli nk (talk) 20:47, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Article was protected via a request at WP:RFPP. --NeilN 13:41, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Did your email get any response, User:Mdann52? IP addresses are still making legal threats and talking about a "war" against Misplaced Pages on the Tube challenge talk page. --McGeddon (talk) 08:35, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

@McGeddon: As I did this through OTRS, I'm not going to go into too much detail, but I've stopped corresponding due to further legal threats being made in the email discussion. Mdann52 (talk) 09:48, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

@Mdann52: The question is, is it really Andi James or someone pretending to be him. The writing style doesn't appear to be someone who is an adult or have a very good command of the English language. —Farix (t | c) 11:12, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

A Tube Challenge forum thread has a user with the same name as the sockmaster making the same threats against Misplaced Pages in the same tone of voice, with nobody calling him out as an impostor. But it makes no difference if it's an upset world record holder trying to overrule Misplaced Pages's sourcing policy by making legal threats, or a troll trying to goad Misplaced Pages into overreacting and blanking Andi's official record - there's been no good reason given for blanking a sourced world record. --McGeddon (talk) 18:01, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

I honestly think it is a troll, especially with the consent shift between first and third person when referring to Andi James. —Farix (t | c) 18:36, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Legal threat

There seems to be some type of legal threat at Talk:Tube Challenge placed by 194.176.105.20 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) in this edit. I'll leave it up to the admins here to determine how to handle it. Edgeweyes (talk) 12:08, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Note also the #Legal threats on Tube/Subway Challenge section above. -- Finlay McWalterᚠTalk 12:23, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Macrophilia article

I would take this to the Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard or to the Misplaced Pages:No original research/Noticeboard, but there is a backlog at the former and this matter has already been taken to the latter in the past. Furthermore, the problem repeatedly going on at the Macrophilia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) article is that editors, WP:Newbies and other inexperienced editors, keep changing the content away from what is supported by the sources even after being told of the WP:Verifiability policy and WP:Reliable sources guideline. The article has also been plagued by WP:Socking. All of this is why the article has been WP:Semi-protected in the past. The article is bad enough as it is, without having to worry about WP:Synthesis being added to it. The issue is that macrophilia is predominantly documented in men, but some male editors keep trying to give "equal weight" to women being macrophiles; or, in the latest case, even to genderqueer people. For that latest development, see this, this and this edit made to the article, and this, this and this edit made to the talk page. ‎Jitenshasw (talk · contribs) has stated, "This is NOT opinion. Half of this article doesn't apply to women like me or male gay macrophiles. Changing to nongendered pronouns will fix everything. This article currently is appropriate for GTS not 'macrophila' as a whole. WE EXSIST STOP IGNORING US." Jitenshasw has stated that he or she is "taking a stand." Also see this edit. I don't see what is left for me to do on this matter, except take this article off my WP:Watchlist and let these editors have their way with it. I came upon the article in an incidental manner anyway. As far as I'm concerned, the article should be indefinitely WP:Semi-protected. Flyer22 (talk) 22:54, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

From what I am observing in the article history for Macrophilia, ‎Jitenshasw is in violation of the 3RR policy (also, looks to have edited while logged out here), has engaged in edit warring today, and a 24 hour block for edit warring should be applied. From what I am observing on talk:Macrophilia, ‎Jitenshasw has made it clear that (s)he does not care about Misplaced Pages's policies or guidelines, and that (s)he'll continue to edit war and violate Misplaced Pages's policies despite being asked to stop. This user clearly has personal ties and conflict of interest with this article and subject area, as indicated with his/her edits here, here and here, and is a SPA by the looks of his/her contributions. This user also appears to possibly be forum shopping now? (see here)

With this behavior in mind, the edit warring that has already occurred, the clearly stated intention to keep edit warring and violating Misplaced Pages guidelines without any regard to Misplaced Pages and the community, I believe that a topic ban should be imposed indefinitely upon ‎Jitenshasw and any articles regarding sexuality, broadly constructed. ~Oshwah~ 23:46, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

I'm redacting my support for a 3RR/edit war block due to the below statement made by ‎Jitenshasw, so long as it doesn't continue. I'm striking out my support for a ban at this time, as I see that possible collaboration progress is being made as well. ~Oshwah~ 19:33, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

I've already stopped the editing. I wasn't aware of the 3 revert rule, it wont happen again.

Dear administrator reading this. I realize you might not be part of this community, but it is a thriving and diverse one. I've been part of the macrophilia community for over 10 years as an artist and contributor. I run a NYC based Macro/Micro meetup which has women members (like myself) and many gay members as well. Here, take a look at a photo from our last meet in Central Park: http://img09.deviantart.net/c3e2/i/2015/252/5/b/untitled_by_jitenshasw-d98yki4.jpg While I'll agree that the majority of those 'out' are male and heterosexual, there is a significant portion of us who read the article in it's current form, and it does not read true to us.

This is an important matter of identity as most macrophiles like myself think about size on a day to day basis. Women in the community already often suffer greatly because their own desires are not respected by men. We're are supposed to assume this is a Giantess fetish by default, and if we don't conform, we're sometimes ostracized. That is not correct. Our own preferences should be respected! This has been argued before, and I strongly feel that changing the pronouns in the articles will keep information the same but without excluding women and those in the LGBTQ community. Please think about the morality on the subject. Many women (including myself) have suffered greatly from the back and forth of harassment and ostracizing tactics used by some men in the community. Please give us a voice.

We are real people who suffer deeply with identity issues due to this fetish. I'm a normal person, a wife, a hard worker. I go about my day to day silently suffering with this insecurity, my friends, family and co-workers unaware. I want to look at this page and say that I identify with this, THIS IS ME. But that's not what I'm reading. This is all wrong. A simple genderless pronoun change would solve that and make everyone happy. Jitenshasw (talk) 00:09, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

I would support the gender neutral wording "giant" (as opposed to giantess) while keeping in language noting that it's primarily a heterosexual male fetish. clpo13_(talk) 00:29, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

• I support the editing of this article based on reliable sources, like we ought to. There is only one actual book cited, this one, in the article--the rest ranges from Salon to Gawker. In other words, the sourcing for this is atrocious, and that book actually suggests that it's a male fantasy, supporting gendered language. That's not to say this is what it is, but the sources right now support the gendering (the newspaper articles certainly do). Honestly, I couldn't care less if this were ungendered--though I do object to this article having been an alt-forum, a directory of fetishistic links, and a collection of movies that supposedly play into the fetish. Feel free to peruse the academic literature, or MEDRS, as should be appropriate for such an article--nothing. Perhaps James Cantor is ready for AfD number 2. Drmies (talk) 01:20, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

• I am absolutely not willing to get involved here, but one source that could potentially provide some context is: Canning, Richard (2012). "What you weren't reading in 1952". The Gay & Lesbian Review Worldwide. 19 (4): 16. Unfortunately, I do not have access to this source to confirm its utility to the topic. Regardless, there are sporadic discussions in reliable literature; pronoun selection notwithstanding, I would definitely oppose a trip to AFD for the topic. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 15:50, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Russian military intervention in the Syrian Civil War

Something strange is happening with moves related to this page. It has been unilaterally moved without discussion to this page. People copy-paste large chunks of text. I think this page should be moved back to the original title and move-protected. All procedures must be properly followed. If people want to rename the page, they must make an RfC and wait for consensus. Furthermore, it seems that someone modified redirect to hinder moves by other participants. This is just another reason to move it back per this Arbcom decision. Administrative attention required. My very best wishes (talk) 19:24, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

To move the page back, you may go to WP:RM#TR and file an Uncontroversial technical request (following the instructions and using the template), with the rationale that the prior move was made without discussion. An admin will then make the move shortly.

I believe this thread may therefore be closed, as ANI is not the venue desired. Softlavender (talk) 19:37, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. ~Oshwah~ 19:43, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

You can also ask David O. Johnson about the move, since he was the one who performed it. It would be good to get his input and collaborate with him. Notice of this ANI has been left on his talk page. ~Oshwah~ 19:43, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

No, I can not go to Uncontroversial technical request because I think this move is controversial. My very best wishes (talk) 19:47, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Parsa1993 is the one who originally moved it to the current title ; I just moved it back. I thought their arguments in support of the move were valid. David O. Johnson (talk) 20:24, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Redacted my statement above. Sorry! ~Oshwah~ 20:52, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

I see. OK, one possible solution is to keep both pages for now and discuss their merging. Therefore, I just made revert in the redirect and marked them to discuss merging. But it seems that both pages have the same talk page.My very best wishes (talk) 20:40, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

There are now articles Russian intervention in Syria, Russian military intervention in the Syrian Civil War, Russia's role in the Syrian Civil War, Russian-Iranian military intervention in Syria, Foreign involvement in the Syrian Civil War, and Syrian Civil War. I may have missed others. There's extensive overlap. A neutral party is needed to organize that mess. Syrian Civil War should probably be the lead article, with the usual arrangements for subarticles. Is there some relevant WikiProject that can take this on? Thanks. John Nagle (talk) 21:10, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

And no one noticed WP:NOTNEWS, in their eagerness to get the scoop on the article, the title, the content. Drmies (talk) 21:32, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps this thread can be closed by now, but I think some admins should watch these pages.My very best wishes (talk) 23:33, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

One of those articles just hit the front page of Misplaced Pages. The subject is important enough and complex enough that it needs serious attention. But none of the task forces under Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Council/Directory/History and society#Military and warfare seem to cover that conflict. The original poster here wasn't sure he was in the right place. There is no obvious right place. Sugggestions? John Nagle (talk) 01:55, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Status quo

There are currently only two overlapping articles (the others listed above by John Nagle are overarching parent articles), plus a redirect:

• Russian intervention in Syria (redirect)

(NOTE: currently a redirect, but with 23,000 bytes of content prior. HOWEVER, the page was a cut&paste move and rename of Russian military intervention in the Syrian Civil War anyway)

• Russian military intervention in the Syrian Civil War
• Russian-led military intervention in Syria

Since September 30 there has been a Requested Move that Russian intervention in the Syrian Civil War → Russian intervention in Syria.

Since today there is now a MERGE proposal to Merge Russian military intervention in the Syrian Civil War into Russian-led military intervention in Syria.

Somewhere in all of the recent and fairly recent cut&paste moves (numerous), pop-up redirects, re-namings, double redirects, normal moves, and a change from hyphen to en-dash, things got duplicated (or possibly also overlapped or lost or whatever). (It's a bit hard to untangle as it involves half a dozen titles and page histories due to the various intervening titles and redirect pages.)

ADDENDUM: The two existing articles (Russian military intervention in the Syrian Civil War and the currently titled as of 13:01, 4 October 2015 UTC Russian-led military intervention in Syria) are virtually identical and one needs to be deleted.

-- Softlavender (talk) 04:42, 4 October 2015 (UTC); edited 05:17, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

UPDATE: EkoGraf has just moved Russian–Iranian military intervention in Syria to Russian-led military intervention in Syria. At least it wasn't a cut&paste move. I am going to re-do the titles above to reflect the change. Softlavender (talk) 12:17, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Softlavender Yeah I moved it from Russian–Iranian to Russian-led because the addition of Iranian to the title was unilateral and had not gone through any discussion at the talk page (while a discussion for another rename had still been ongoing). I wanted to change it back to the title from before the addition of Iranian (to preserve the status quo) but couldn't so I moved it to a title that seemed to be at least one of those most agreed to on the talk page. If I made some kind of mistake by doing so I apologize. EkoGraf (talk) 05:56, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

I personally don't have any serious objection ... other than it happened to add to the confusion and the amount of housekeeping I had to do to keep track of titles in this thread, and also it created some confusion in the discussions on those article pages. I think it was a good move; it's just the whole past 5 days has been a nightmare of about 10 articles or titles being created on the exact same subject. Hopefully it will all get straightened out in the next five or so days, and all the extraneous articles will be deleted. And for heaven's sake people need to remember that Misplaced Pages is not a newspaper. Softlavender (talk) 06:05, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

All of these pages should be labelled as under general sanctions

See Misplaced Pages:General sanctions/Syrian Civil War and Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant. See Misplaced Pages:General sanctions#Community-authorised sanctions. They need talk page notices and Edit notices for the article pages. Doug Weller (talk) 12:54, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Use {{Editnotice SCW 1RR}} for the article page and {{Syrian Civil War sanctions}} for the talk page. To make an edit notice visit Misplaced Pages:Editnotice. Doug Weller (talk) 12:58, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Ok, most of these are done, although some of the redirect pages may need them if they are moved back. Doug Weller (talk) 13:07, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Proposal

It might be worthwhile for an admin to lock Russian-led military intervention in Syria, merge Russian military intervention in the Syrian Civil War into it, and delete Russian military intervention in the Syrian Civil War before unlocking. That would save a lot of hassle because the articles are being edited as we speak, leading to more and more text to worry about. After the deletion and unlock, people can debate about the title as much as they please. Anyone who then moves without RM consensus, or cut&paste creates a new article, should receive an immediate block. Softlavender (talk) 13:08, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Block requests can go to RPP, but it's not our role to make content or merge decisions such as the one above. Doug Weller (talk) 13:34, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

The later article was an exact duplication of the first, and I've seen admins fix that sort of situation before it got out of hand. Given that the articles are being treated as newspapers with daily if not hourly updates, the sooner the page duplication is zapped the better, in my mind. That's my personal opinion, anyway. Softlavender (talk) 13:40, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Nothing prevents anyone from making an AfD or using an RfC to discuss merging. I do not think this case is anything special. My very best wishes (talk) 15:02, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

• Note there is also the page 2015 Russian air raids in Syria. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 15:27, 4 October 2015 (UTC).
  

Oh yes, we now have four pages about exactly the same: Russian military intervention in the Syrian Civil War (that was the first one; I think it should remain), Russian–Iranian military intervention in Syria, Russian-led military intervention in Syria and 2015 Russian air raids in Syria... My very best wishes (talk) 02:32, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

No, there are only three; you are confusing the redirect. There is the first article, its duplicate, and then the content fork (the latter which I just AfDed -- thanks Rich Farmbrough for pointing that one out). Softlavender (talk) 02:55, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

That's a progress. This merging discussion needs closing and action. I think the consensus was to keep page Russian military intervention in the Syrian Civil War and make Russian-led military intervention in Syria a redirect, while keeping its edit history to allow merging of content (the pages are not exactly the same). My very best wishes (talk) 13:09, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

I've closed the discussion as "merge". I'm not familiar with the topic, so I'm not going to do the merge itself; I redirected "Russian-led" to "Russian", added a note in the page history reminding reusers that the histories of both pages are now necessary for attribution. Hopefully someone else will merge the pages, simply copying content from old revisions of "Russian-led" into the current edition of "Russian". Nyttend (talk) 00:56, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

• No logic. The clone article Russian military intervention in the Syrian Civil War (created by copypaste on 3 Oct with small number of useful edits) must be redirected to original article Russian-led military intervention in Syria created on 30 Sep), but not vice versa, as of now! Also in the first RM section it was consensus for "in Syria" name, but against "in the Syrian Civil War". 178.94.165.139 (talk) 08:46, 7 October 2015 (UTC) P.S. Softlavender's proposition in this thread will be the best solution, I think. Admins, please do as he said. 178.94.165.139 (talk) 08:55, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

User:Winkelvi

• Ahmed Mohamed clock incident (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Winkelvi (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

The editing environment at Ahmed Mohamed clock incident and the associated talk page is bad, and everyone there (myself included) needs to to work better at focusing on article content rather than attacks. Even in that context, though, I feel that User:Winkelvi has repeatedly crossed the line, and their disruption is making any sort of improvement in the tone impossible. Yesterday got into a bit of a row with them and figured a little time would do us both well, but today their replies to posts as carefully worded as I know how have continued to be attacks. I think per their comment here that Winkelvi is misinterpreting discussion on a contentious topic with BLP concerns as obstinance, but that doesn't really help me see a path forward. Help de-escalating the situation would be appreciated.

Examples of edits I find inappropriate:

• linking off-Wiki attacks on another editor
• restoring links to off-Wiki attacks on another editor
• accusation of "intimidation"

Attempts to resolve the issue on the user's talk page , . Notified here.

Thanks,

VQuakr (talk) 23:01, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

That Reddit discussion is toxic and really has no place being linked on the talk page. Talk pages are for improving the article, and pointing out how people in an anti-Misplaced Pages subreddit feel about the article doesn't help one bit. clpo13_(talk) 23:18, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

So, VQuakr, are you reporting yourself? Erpert 03:52, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

In the sense that my edits are going to be scrutinized due to my posting here, sure. VQuakr (talk) 17:15, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Looking at the article talk page, VQuakr clearly had consensus on their side. Winkelvi's edits were opposed because they served to obfuscate the central events/facts in the teen-clock-arrest episode through euphemism and poor wording. Winkelvi also attempted to introduce the weasel word "claim" into the lead, in a way that cast suspicion on the teenager Ahmed Mohamed. I have no idea if any of this requires an admin response, but VQuakr's behavior appears correct at Ahmed Mohamed clock incident. -Darouet (talk) 18:28, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

• Winkelvi, can we have another strong reminder about the need to be WP:CIVIL in your conduct and communication with other editors. Do you have suggestion about what we do this time (/next time) your user-ID appears here with diffs showing lack of WP:CIVILity in interaction. —Sladen (talk) 05:32, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Winkelvi, given, will you be able to find time to reply to the thread here on ANI? —Sladen (talk) 19:05, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
    • Judging from the radio silence I surmise the answer is in the negative. By the way, in noting the diff posted by Sladen above, I found that it is a reference to this edit of another user's comment at an AfD that was questionable to say the least. I can understand the redaction, maybe, but removing the IP's comment, later reverted by another use, was both unexplained and unwarranted. Coretheapple (talk) 16:12, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
      • Not "unexplained". As far as not commenting here: not interested in giving credence to the attempt by the filer in selectively and discriminately stirring the drama shit pot. As it seems you are attempting to (once again) do in regard to me, Coretheapple. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 02:54, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
        • Well I'm glad you dealt with that. How are you going to deal with this WP:CIVIL issue? Coretheapple (talk) 15:31, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Having looked over Winkelvi's talk page, there was a request earlier today from Checkingfax for further information about why Checkingfax might had received a warning from Winkelvi (the warning is presumably —reverted immediately by by Calidum. I'll concur that the language appears to be polite on this occasion, but the assertion of "Looks pretty clear to me." instead of explanation, or even WP:DIFFS is concerning. Furthermore, I observe that the prompting to Winkelvi to perhaps engage got silently removed. If this "radio silence" (/apparent unwillingness to engage in follow-ups) is widespread in so-many of these interactions with Winkelvi this could be perhaps the source of some of the difficulties, leading to the tension and subsequent temptation for in-WP:CIVILility. —Sladen (talk) 07:04, 9 October 2015 (UTC) …And, I see we now have WP:ANI#User:Checkingfax reported by User:Winkelvi over at ANI.

• Checkingfax was engaged in deadnaming re Caitlin Jenner and may also have been logging out to avoid scrutiny, I have issued a warning about that since that, at least, is unambiguously unacceptable. Guy (Help!) 10:26, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

88.106.237.173

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

88.106.237.173 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

An IP editor has been posting from multiple IPs over the last four to six weeks consistently against consensus and in todays batch of edits (many of which have had to be reverted) has become abusive. Several editors have tried to engage via talk-pages and he did enter into very limited discussion at Talk:Jim Clark, but basically has taken very little notice of what people have tried to communicate to him. His editing has been disruptive over a few weeks now and many involved in the F1 project feel that wit has been allowed to continue for long enough. Please can somebody advise how we should proceed? There is available a list of approx. 20 IPs he has been using, but the diffs must be possibly over 1,000 by now. Thanks for any assistance. Eagleash (talk) 17:30, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

The notice placed on his (today's) talk page has been replaced thus — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eagleash (talk • contribs) 17:40, 4 October 2015‎

I have given the IP a 72 hour block for being abusive. If they come back within this time let me know on my talk page and I will re-block for evasion. If they come back after this time and are disruptive let me know and I will look into it. HighInBC 17:42, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, if it follows the usual pattern there will be a drop off in edits until the end of the week when it will resume from yet another IP. Thanks. Eagleash (talk) 17:46, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Eagleash: How do you know it's the same editor? Is there a particular article or set of articles it targets? if so, I think longterm semi-protection, or semi-permanent pending-changes protection, may be the remedy. Softlavender (talk) 08:43, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes the articles involved are almost 100% related to Formula One, particularly, 1960s/1970s era and with British connections (Jim Clark, Graham Hill, James Hunt etc.). The editing habits are similar across all 20 IPs noted (flooding articles with images, starting articles in talk pages, fiddling with tables and so on) and the IPs are all from the same area in South/South West England. Members of the F1 project have been aware of his actions for a while now, as noted above and although we cannot be 100% sure, believe it is the same editor. Eagleash (talk) 09:19, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes, Softlavender, a particular set of articles is targeted. But the set is so big (and increasing every week) that getting them all under semi-protection is quite complicated. It's very obvious from looking at the IP numbers and the editing behaviour, that it's one and the same editor. If you look at the list Eagleash compiled, you'll notice that while the exact IP's are different, they all strem from the two same ranges. One is the 92.21 range and the other is the 88.106 range. All in all, I feel the only option left to prevent further disruption is a hard range block of those IP ranges. Tvx1 09:53, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

You're probably right about the hard rangeblock for those two IP sets.... Softlavender (talk) 09:56, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

I have blocked the two ranges 92.21.240.0/20 (covers 4096 IP addresses) and 88.106.224.0/20 (covers 4096 IP addresses) for a week. I see you have already encouraged the person to start an account, which would sure make communication and education a lot easier. -- Diannaa (talk) 14:18, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

User:Andering J. REDDSON

Andering J. REDDSON is repeatedly adding conspiratorial bullshit to Talk:Umpqua Community College shooting in violation of TALK, SOAPBOX and NOTHERE:

—ATinySliver/ 🖖 04:57, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

I note the first section heading on the user's talk page: ¿Got A Problem With Me? Tough.
I've seen combative WP:NOTHERE, but I can't recall seeing it advertised before. ―Mandruss ☎ 05:02, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

The entire talk page could be a dissertation on DGAF. —ATinySliver/ 🖖 05:09, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

It just wouldn't be a mass shooting in the USA if someone did not say that it was a hoax/false flag operation. I can't count the times that this has been said. WP:REDFLAG and WP:FRINGE apply here, and also WP:BLP if it is claimed that living people involved in the shooting have lied.--♦IanMacM♦ 05:25, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Read the user's page if you want a good laugh. AJR seems to be on a desperate "quest" to fix Misplaced Pages's reliability issues—after using the site as a source for a paper, evidently without checking the actual sources, which was AJR's own damned fault—and then spends time here spouting unsourced conspiracy theories?! Ironic, much? —ATinySliver/ 🖖 05:35, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

I'm surprised this user hasn't been indeffed yet. Erpert 23:50, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Where's that facepalm template...ah, well. I have a previous history with this editor for full disclosure which can mostly be found here. I fully concur with ATinySliver's description which leads me to wonder the same thing that Erpert expresses above. It should be noted that you will find many of his contribs as IPs (because he signed them) by searching on REDDSON. He has numerous talk page comments but few article contributions. I could never fully make up my mind as to whether he was trolling us or if he is really that way. He hasn't changed in years. I would suggest a lack of understanding and that he has his reasons for all those talk page posts. Please be warned that if you go to discuss something with him that you must be part of the liberal leftists that control Misplaced Pages. You belong to a cabal of conspirators of one form or another if you consider yourself a Wikipedian at all. The forces of evil must not prevail. :)
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 01:13, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

He should be blocked as WP:NOTHERE, especially with this sort of proclamation. He clearly doesn't think much of Misplaced Pages or its policies, especially those on collaboration. If he wants an encyclopedia that fits his worldview, there's always Conservapedia. clpo13_(talk) 07:23, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Note that an off-topic comment by REDDSON was removed from this thread. While I agree that his comment doesn't belong here, it is further evidence of using Misplaced Pages as a soapbox. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 23:52, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

User:Codename Lisa on article Computer Program

User:Codename Lisa did the following:

• edited Computer Program's definition claiming an App is a sequence of computer instructions.
• cited six questionable sources.
• reacted to my objection by writing, "And yet so far, you have done nothing but poisoning the atmosphere with your negativity, ignorance, frivolous demands and in this case, a blatant lie."
• reacted to my objection by writing, "The problem is your own brain..."
• showed contempt for one of Misplaced Pages's Misplaced Pages:Five pillars by writing, "Enough being nice with this person."
• showed contempt for Misplaced Pages's reliable sources policy by writing, "I also don't care if 'computer program' and 'app' are 100% synonyms."
• admitted to doing original research by writing, "Even if they overlap 50% in meaning, they deserve inclusion in the article."

Here is the diff: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Computer_program&diff=684145424&oldid=684137222 Timhowardriley (talk) 16:30, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

@Timhowardriley: What administrator action are you requesting? This looks like an active content dispute. Parties should be mindful to keep arguments based on the content and not the editor, but there doesn't look to be anything actionable here that I can see. This looks like something that would be more appropriate for an WP:RFC or dispute resolution. If you want help with that, feel free to leave a message on my talk page. — Rhododendrites \\ 17:06, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Well, jeez, I dunno. Where I work, "you have done nothing but poisoning the atmosphere with your negativity, ignorance, frivolous demands and in this case, a blatant lie" isn't how colleagues work out differences of opinion re the best course of action to take. Seems to me that either the statement is mostly true, in which case Timhowardriley probably needs some administrator attention -- suggestions, warnings, a swift boot, or whatever; or the statement is mostly false, in which case Codename Lisa probably needs some administrator attention -- suggestions, warnings, a swift boot, or whatever; or there's something more complicated going on here, and maybe they both need some administrator attention. But at any rate Rhododendrites I wouldn't just shrug it off, no. Herostratus (talk) 17:32, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Fair enough. I do think that Timhowardriley is more or less in the right here, but the way he opened the discussion with a couple reverts and accusations of advertising likely got things off on the wrong foot. That doesn't excuse personal attacks, of course. — Rhododendrites \\ 17:49, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I did overreact to my first impression of the changes. I then softened my tone and apologized for it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Codename_Lisa&diff=prev&oldid=684105546 . Timhowardriley (talk) 17:59, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

As User:Rhodendrites has said, this is primarily a content dispute, although it is being compounded by violations of civility and personal attacks. Resolving a content dispute peacefully often helps resolve any conduct issues. The advice to read the dispute resolution policy is on the mark. WP:ANI should be a late stage in dealing with a conduct issue, and should not be used if content discussion is still feasible. In particular, I would suggest either moderated discussion at the dispute resolution noticeboard, where the moderator will keep the participants discussing content rather than conduct or contributors, or a neutrally worded Request for Comments on any questioned edits. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:17, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

• Warn User:Timhowardriley, follow with a block if ineffective. I feel Timhowardriley is not here to build an encyclopedia. First: His user page shows he has a long history of vilifying his fellow editors, including but not limited to Codename Lisa.

Second: This person has started with a WP:POINTy blanket revert () that destroys edits of more than one editor's contribution, and has a pointy edit summary. Codename Lisa's initial response () has been civil ... and rather interesting. Codename Lisa's edit have been supported by six citations; later 25 more sources were added to the talk page. However, assessing the very long discussion spanning 36 edits that has occurred (), I cannot find a shred of evidence that Timhowardriley ever tried to treat the dispute fairly. I agree with the first of Herostratus assessments, "the statement is mostly true, in which case Timhowardriley probably needs some administrator attention -- suggestions, warnings, a swift boot, or whatever".

Fleet Command (talk)

* Regarding "His user page shows he has a long history of vilifying his fellow editors...": This essay is a long history of others vilifying me, not me vilifying others.

* Regarding "This person has started with a WP:POINTy blanket revert () that destroys edits of more than one editor's contribution, and has a pointy edit summary.": I'm sorry. I shouldn't have done that.

* Regarding "Codename Lisa's edit have been supported by six citations;": One reliable citation is necessary. Six unreliable citations are meaningless.

* Regarding the long discussion: Yes, I'm trying to extract the justification of why App is now synonymous with Computer Program. And if it isn't then it should be removed from the definition. I'm trying to keep the conversation technical; however, personal comments keep appearing from those who don't want the removal. Timhowardriley (talk) 20:16, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

"I'm trying to extract the justification of why App is now synonymous with Computer Program". Well, stop that. "App" can be in the article even if it is related enough. (You've been told already.) And it is related. Both Ruud and Rhodendrites, who are totally alien have performed marvelously better than you so far. Fleet Command (talk) 20:25, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

"This essay is a long history of others vilifying me, not me vilifying others." It is personal attack anyway. And when you have so much problem with so many different editors, it is high time you realized you are the problem, not others. Fleet Command (talk) 20:27, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Hello, Timhowardriley

No matter whether app is another name of software application does not really matter, because the most important thing is that you and this very beautiful lady, Codename Lisa, devoted both of your treasurable time and energies to that article, and even made it better. So the excuse between you both is much better than to judge who is not here to build an encyclopedia, because you both already come here to build an encyclopedia, and even improve it. So I wish let the time tell who is correct, and let the correct one to improve that article.

Best Regards,

Aaron J. 221.9.13.120 (talk) 23:19, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

This diff shows a recent pattern of abusive behavior by Codename Lisa that is worthy of a civility warning from an administrator. Any future offense should result in a short block. 73.152.188.151 (talk) 00:52, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Hello,

In that diff, I found You have been mean to me times and again. I hate you. I hate you. I hate you., maybe I hate you. repeated three times made you think it is a abusive behavior. But in my opinion, I have completely different viewpoints, word hate has a strong emotional meaning, much stronger than dislike. If someone loves another one strongly, he/she would also repeats it for three times. But it was removed later, only existed on the history of that talk page. So it could not be an abusive behaviour. So I guard Codename Lisa with that if she repeated it three times to me, I would be glad much more than that!

Best Regards,

Aaron J. 221.9.13.120 (talk) 01:36, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Eek. "I hate you, I hate you, I hate you" is not actually an insult (it's just an expression of emotion) and so I guess it's not necessarily exactly uncivil, and it is honest, but still... May I suggest a chill pill, @Codename Lisa:? You don't talk that way at work, I hope? Well this is our mutual workplace. Take a step back and remember 1) this is just a website, and 2) this is supposed to be a fun hobby, and 3) in 100 years none of this will matter. Please relax, will you? I suggest you'll be happier in the long run.Herostratus (talk) 05:51, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

@Herostratus: Thanks for the suggestion. But it appears you did not verify whether what I said is a joke and whether the person to whom I aimed it has been offended. Indeed, the person who raised the objection is (signing "Aaron J.") is the blocked vandal and sock-puppeteer User:Janagewen. (I will file a request to block his IP.) As for taking a chill pill, everyone here knows that I am the coolest person in Misplaced Pages. So, while I had fun reading your comment, a mass-produced prescription no less, I am afraid it is impossible to die from chill pill overdose.

And you know, I am not very comfortable with you coming here and becoming judge on people's behavior without getting your facts right. Wikipedians are human. For example: When a vandal insults a good Wikipedian 35 times, the good Wikipedian may eventually snap and retort back. But I am concerned that you may just add insult the good Wikipedian's injury by taking the vandal's side without knowing what you are doing.

Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 08:51, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Well but here's the thing. This is a very large website, fast-moving with a lot of edits coming in thru the pneumatic tubes every minute. Right now there're 23 threads on this board alone. It's not always possible to take the time to do proper due diligence, in addition to one's regular editing stuff (it's different it reaches the level of formal proceedings, of course). It's too bad but it's really just a subset of "people are busy and the world's unfair"... we want be as fair as reasonably possible. If I misread you, sorry, but jokes are hard to pull off here (I should know, heh), and anyway its not like I was calling for any sanctions or anything on you -- just a general admonition... I dunno who's right or who's wrong here, and not being an admin it's not really my remit to dig deeper, but if people are being mean to you and it's not your fault and you aren't able to convince them to stop, it seems a couple of solutions would be to double down and get your diffs in order and get those people on the track for being corrected or (if not amenable to correction) kicked out (which would be a service to the Misplaced Pages generally), or else go edit somewhere where those people aren't, for a while... Herostratus (talk) 15:05, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Legal threat made by user

A user has apparently made a legal threat at Special:Diff/684324996. Gparyani (talk) 23:28, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Okay, he appears to be WP:BROTHERing here: Special:Diff/684326379 Gparyani (talk) 23:35, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Talking to what seems to be a youngish editor. --NeilN 23:36, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

If his younger brother did it, then he's in violation of the rules by not securing his account. So either way, he has to be indef'd. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 05:14, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Or we we can take the situation for what it is - a young editor messing about - and respond accordingly. If it happens again, block them. In the mean time... hey look! Squirrel! --NeilN 13:38, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

I suppose that could be seen as a retraction of the legal threat and thus obviate the need for a preventative block. HighInBC 05:24, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Technically, yes. It would be a retraction of a legal threat, as childish as this situation is... :-) ~Oshwah~ 06:40, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

User:Strivingsoul disruptive editing and soapboxing

Strivingsoul (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has previously been blocked for battleground editing after a report by Kudzu1, and later reported again by Ian.thomson. Already at that time there was understanding that the user is WP:NOTHERE, as the user has since effectively admitted to by stating that they "never shy away from defending what is justified according to our religion". The user constantly enters edit wars and off-topic discussions to promote Irano-Islamist views in article space and talk space.--Anders Feder (talk) 08:22, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

First off, I already admit my fault at getting caught in a few edit wars early during my past activities on Wiki. And I have done my best ever since to stick to the three-edit revert rule and settle the disputes in the talk pages as my knowledge of Wiki policies grew.

However, what prompted this user to make this complaint in particular is not really my past performance. What we have here is a clear case of diametrically opposed philosophical/political persuasions. Andres Feder apparently comes from a very strong atheist persuasion which has already prompted him to attack and ridicule beliefs of muslim contributors several times, which has indeed caused offense in the past for some users and has apparently led to WP:CIVILITY warning for him in a past ANI.

But beyond his continued violation of WP:CIVILITY, I can also identify the very same ideological prejudices behind his repeated allegations aimed at discrediting Iranian sources such as PressTV even in subjects where having Iranian official POVs are crucial for maintaining WP:NPOV. I have already dedicated my time a few times countering his arguments such as here and here, arguing for various ideological, political and financial biases of Western sources that he uses to suppress Iranian POVs reported by the official media outlets of the Islamic Republic of Iran based on the pretext that "Iranian media are controlled by the theocracy". So here's the real controversy that has led to his complaint against me. But he apparently wants to condition the users here against me by deflecting attention from the root cause of the difference. He wants to frame a random statement of mine where I said "I never shy away from defending what is justified according to our religion" to imply that I want to push my personal opinions into Misplaced Pages content. But that's not whatsoever the case and you can clearly see that if you examine the context of that statement. There, I was not whatsoever making that statement in violation of Misplaced Pages policies. That was basically a statement of my personal belief that came at the end of a discussion about the legal foundations of the Islamic Republic of Iran with a fellow Iranian! It was never made and never meant as statement standing against any Misplaced Pages policy. In keeping with Wiki policies, I had already explained in length by citing information and sources to counter his repeated allegations of bias against Iranian sources based on Orientalist charges of dictatorship against a very distinct form of theocratic-democratic political system that has emerged out of Shia political philosophy. Admins can already see my record on Islam/Shia/Iran-related topics to appreciate my contributions which has the effect of improving WP:BIAS against Iran/Shia/Islamic topics some of which remain highly underrepresented not just in Misplaced Pages but in the greater world as well. Strivingsoul (talk) 09:17, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

User:Strivingsoul, you go beyond simply advocating inclusion of the Iranian or Shia points of view to vigorous denouncing of those who oppose you. We can include accurate summaries of any point of view regardless of how unreliable, in a general sense, a source may be. You are correct that you are entitled to indefinitely advocate for an Islamist point of view with respect to any Misplaced Pages policy or content, but you cannot be disruptive in doing so. You need to totally reexamine the way you are conducting yourself. Better behavior on your part will not solve the behavior problems of others or resolve content issues, but is a minimum requirement for continuing to edit effectively. User:Fred Bauder Talk 09:33, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

But in opposing I put forward evidences and cite information for legitimate reasons. Please note that the primary counterpart of this controversy has always been Anders Feder alone. He continues to bring up the same POVs that are controversial and he tries to render his claims as a factual, objective ground to remove Iranian POVs from nearly whatever Iran-related topics I participate in. I don't know why he is so adamantly opposed to Iran. I even suspect his strong prejudice might be rooted in his sympathy for the state of Israel that is Iran's adversary. I can't find other explanation for a user who repeatedly desecrates my religion and attacks my country based on his personal persuasions. I'm not saying he should not disagree as he has every right to, but to fixate on repeated allegations regardless of repeater counter arguments is what bothers me and is truly disrupting. Strivingsoul (talk) 09:46, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

"I even suspect his strong prejudice might be rooted in his sympathy for the state of Israel" Jew-baiting, who should have thunk? I have no particular sympathy for Israel or anyone else, and readily act against Zionist POV-editors such as this one too. The reliability of your Iranian sources have been debated extensively here, including by yourself.--Anders Feder (talk) 10:01, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

His discussion of issues is also inappropriate, and he may be handling Iranian sources improperly. He is not wrong, as he strongly points out, and has good sources for, when he claims Iranian media is both controlled by the state and propagandistic. You don't have to be a Zionist to get that. The question is how to handle inclusion of the point of view without incorporating "facts" from an unreliable source. This is not easy. Denial of the unreliability of Iranian media is not a viable tactic; there are even claims, by Iranian leaders, that strong expressions of opinion by other Iranian leaders are not to be taken at face value. Nevertheless, assertions of opinion in Iranian media may be included as valid expressions of the point of view of the state. User:Fred Bauder Talk 10:11, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

What do you mean by saying that Iranian media are "controlled"? All media in the world are controlled but I don't see BBC for example being undermined for being funded and controlled by the UK government! And whether this or that media is "propagandistic" is quite subjective and depends on one's political stance! Strivingsoul (talk) 10:41, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

I mean that the state determines the content. The content of the BBC is determined by the British state which requires, other than with respect to certain sensitive issues, that the content of the BBC be reliable. That is not the case in Iran. Such a determination does not depend on one's political stance but on knowledge of the international media. If you chose to edit using Iranian sources (or Russian or Chinese, or American, for that matter) you need to have some sense of what is simply factual, possibly factual, or just plain made up. We do use highly questionable sources, for example, the rate of growth of the Chinese economy, as reported by the Chinese government. Likewise, some Iranian material can be used, but not all. Determining what is appropriate is a matter of editorial judgement. It should not all be excluded, nor should tendentious assertions be accepted as reliable. User:Fred Bauder Talk 10:57, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Exactly the same can be said about Iran. "The content of the PressTV (for argument's sake) is determined by the Iranian state which requires, other than with respect to certain sensitive issues, that the content of the PressTV be reliable. That is not the case in Britain...." but it seems that somehow Western governments are inherently superior to Iran even if they are lead by hereditary monarchs whereas Iran is lead by a modest religious scholar who is appointed and monitored by an elected body of legal experts. Strivingsoul (talk) 11:25, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Absolutely not! Iran could choose to have a free reliable media. There is an overwhelming international consensus that much of the controversial information in Iranian media cannot be trusted and is inappropriate for inclusion in an encyclopedia other than as the opinion of the Iranian state. Feel free to advocate for its inclusion, but please don't be disruptive about doing so. That includes ascribing motives such as Zionism to other editors, beating on them, or repeatedly making edits against the general consensus. Please try to find the best Iranian, Islamist, or Shia sources and consistently use them. I'm not that familiar with Farsi media, but I know there are excellent, mediocre, and poor sources in English. Consistently advance the best. User:Fred Bauder Talk 14:21, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Strivingsoul, Great Britain is led by its Prime Minister and a democratically elected assembly, as is the Netherlands, etc. , with hereditary monarchs playing a ceremonial role but with no real power. And the BBC's content is not controlled by the state - it's also funded by a license fee, not the government. Doug Weller (talk) 14:28, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

But still the Monarch apparently appoints BBC's Board of Trustees in Council. The licensing is also mandatory for citizens. And there's been all sorts of criticisms of biased reporting against the corporation. The most notorious bias undoubtedly effects BBC Mid-Eastern coverage which has been the target of UK imperialist policies and its alliance with the state of Israel which has been been a source of plight for muslims for more than 6 decades. But we don't see anyone seriously questioning BBC's reliability at least on Mid-Eastern/Muslim developments. Strivingsoul (talk) 16:53, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

While the Queen makes the appointments, she has no choice in the matter : "BBC Trustees are appointed by the Queen on advice from DCMS (Department for Culture, Media and Sport) ministers through the Prime Minister. When new Trustees are needed the posts are publicly advertised. Trustees are chosen on merit and the process is regulated by the Office of the Commissioner for Public Appointments." (from http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/who_we_are/trustees/appointment.html). The British constitutional monarch is titular head of state, but not head of government except for ceremonial purposes. ArglebargleIV (talk) 20:08, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

User:Anders Feder, I have done what I can in the way of jawboning. As noted above, you too, need to do much better. Keep in mind that all states, and points of view, have their media voice, and that all media is in some sense biased, if only in what they choose to report. It is the controversial tendentious assertions of factual content that seek to advance sectarian objectives that need to excluded, not every fact published. Consider the objectives of the Iranian state while making editorial decisions. For example, they would like to embarrass Saudi Arabia over the Hajj, so they might assert questionable facts with respect to the recent tragedy. Obviously, if the behavior you complain of continues indefinitely User:Strivingsoul must eventually be blocked, or even banned, but please don't make him feel that nothing in Iranian media is acceptable. User:Fred Bauder Talk 15:11, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

What about his demeaning statements against the muslim beliefs?! Does he really have to attack our beliefs for working in Misplaced Pages?! Strivingsoul (talk) 16:53, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

In addition, that past RfC never refuted my rebuttal of argument from control. As I also argued there and again here, if control is the problem then all media outlets are somehow controlled either by governments or corporations. There has been indeed scholarly critique of the hazards of corporate consolidation of mass media which can affect their objectivity and/or reliability. Please have a look at Corporate media. Strivingsoul (talk) 17:01, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

I go by the closing comment on the RfC linked above. If anyone opens a new RfC on that, I am happy to follow the outcome.--Anders Feder (talk) 15:59, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

It is sound, but you are twisting the knife. User:Fred Bauder Talk 16:33, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

What source have I opposed that I should not have opposed?--Anders Feder (talk) 16:45, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

None that I know of but don't be so nasty. User:Fred Bauder Talk 17:38, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

By the way, User:Strivingsoul, David Duke, and anything connected with him is a subject you should avoid. It is a hot button issue due to his notoriety; a stick in the eye does not make friends. This sort of behavior can easily form the basis of a topic ban as can any anti-Semitic editing, especially using Iranian sources. User:Fred Bauder Talk 15:24, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your good-faith advise. But I am afraid I have to defer! First off, I perfectly knew that David Duke is notorious for his past association with the White Supremacist KKK back in 1970s. But what I also know in addition is that over the last 3 decades Duke has apparently developed a very distinct career which can be described as only a White nationalist. Studying his career over the last decade I never saw him harboring any racist sentiments against Africans or advocating anti-Semitism. The reason I'm saying this and I dare to say this is that I personally read his book Jewish Supremacism and therefore I could directly learn about his character and positions from that book. And having read his book I could outright tell that a number of allegations about his views as expressed in the book are totally unfounded. And interestingly those allegations mainly come from such notorious sources as the ADL which has a long history of attacking and defaming even critiques of Zionist genocidal policies and have been exposed for spying on American activists who speak for Palestinian rights! David Duke similarly over the last three decades has been speaking out against Zionist atrocities against Palestinians and for that reason, it is not hard to tell why there is so many vicious libels heaped against him by the ADL and/or other pro-Israeli sources. I know you may find these hard to believe but please before rushing to judgment at least have a look at these two videos where he is given opportunity to speak for himself. In this interview he doesn't whatsoever sound like a White supremacist bigot. He openly rejects any form of racism but also believes that there's a dominant anti-Christian/anti-White prejudice in US media. In his Youtube channel as in this one he deeply sympathizes with the tragic suffering of Palestinians at the hand of Zionist state and is trying to raise awareness. These are some of the alternative sources that paint a much more charitable picture of this person and these alternative perspective supports my claim of bias as per WP:NPOV in the review of the book. Strivingsoul (talk) 16:53, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

There is no practical difference between "White Nationalism" and "White Supremacism". ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 17:27, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Interestingly, an IP editor from the UK made the exact same distinction in this edit.--Anders Feder (talk) 17:36, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

That it is possible in an abstract way does not determine the issue, the attitudes of those organized under the banner do, and anti-Semitism is the touchstone, a non sequitur with respect to any genuine advocacy of European welfare. User:Fred Bauder Talk 17:42, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

You are not listening: you have your wet tongue on a 440 Volt line and you are standing in water. Given this post I would not oppose a permanent topic ban from editing any subject related to Jews or Israel. User:Fred Bauder Talk 17:28, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

I did not mean he has not been a White supremacist. But from studying his recent interviews, articles and books over the last decade that are available, it is clear that he no longer advocates white supremacy which is defined as a form of racism centered upon the belief, and promotion of the belief, that white people are superior in certain characteristics, traits, and attributes to people of other racial backgrounds and that therefore whites should politically, economically and socially rule non-whites according to White supremacy. In the interview I linked he openly condemns slavery and all forms of racism. So please before threatening to ban me for simply pointing out some facts, consider examining the sources that I have suggested. Have I made any unfounded claim or have caused any offense?! And what I suggest in this regard is admitting the bias by ADL in misrepresenting the content of the book, as well as, including Duke's recent positions as per WP:NPOV. And for that I can produce direct quotes from his book that disproves some of the negative allegations against what the book says. I understand these facts may contradict some of the assumptions about this apparently sensitive topic considering the alliance most Western governments have with the state of Israel and as a result a much more positive attitude towards Israel, but in Misplaced Pages we have to be neutral as you all know. If you have lived in the Middle East or if you were a muslim, you would see that sentiments are very different towards Zionism and Israel in this part of the world for obvious reasons. So don't just take your own perceptions as granted and universal. Strivingsoul (talk) 18:29, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

You've made many an unfounded claim, not the least of which is Duke isn't racist just because he claims he isn't racist. He just happens to think European (non-Jew) whites are genetically superior to every other people on the planet (including your own) and that the U.S. and Europe should be white only. Visit his website where you can see how he laments that Europe is being "invaded" by Muslims. Or how European whites are more intelligent than all other races. That's racism. As of late he's just turned his racism towards Jews because it sells more of his crappy conspiracy books. Duke is a crank and a laughing stock and the fact that you in any way take him seriously shows you have a very bad grasp of which sources would be considered reliable on Misplaced Pages. Capeo (talk) 23:09, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

He claims that every people have a right to preserve their heritage. And that multi-culturalism leads to ethnic tension and conflict and destruction of distinct cultural traits of each people. We may not agree with him but he's making a compelling case for his view, and this is unfair to rush to frame it as racism simply because he is against massive aggressive immigration into Europe and America. He also cites Jewish sources which show how multi-culturalism was promoted by Jewish organizations in order to weaken the Christian culture of America. On a related topic, here is one of the Jewish sources he directly quotes that you can see for yourself. The Jewish author admits and brags about their role in the notorious porn-industry and its dark anti-Christian goals: Jewish involvement in porn, by this argument, is the result of an atavistic hatred of Christian authority: they are trying to weaken the dominant culture in America by moral subversion. (This is really interesting for me, since this is a pattern I have myself witnessed in another case. Israeli Prime Minister Netanhayu had also advocated regime change in Iran back in 2002 through cultural and moral subversion -- by advocating beaming hedonist and degenerate Hollywood productions by a gay Jewish director into Iran in order to corrupt Iranian youths until they revolt against their Islamic government). Just as evident in this example, his book primarily draws from Jewish sources to present his thesis. Most of the book content are NOT his opinions but just quotes after quotes! He is not also claiming there's a crazy conspiracy theory but that Jews have an enormous influence over US media and politics and therefore deeply influence the US culture and politics. And again he backs up his claim by providing testimony from Jews themselves. Here is one of the testimonies he quotes from a Jewish author: I have never been so upset by a poll in my life. Only 22% of Americans now believe "the movie and television industries are pretty much run by Jews," down from nearly 50% in 1964. The Anti-Defamation League, which released the poll results last month, sees in these numbers a victory against stereotyping. Actually, it just shows how dumb America has gotten. Jews totally run Hollywood. So we can probably suggest that this guy talking about "total control of Hollywood by Jews" is a self-hating anti-Semitic Jew!!

And I'll also be happy if you show me a Duke's recent statement that says Whites are superior to non-whites. There could've been such statements coming from him during his youth where he held more radical views, but I've not seen any statement along that vein in those of his works or articles over the last two decades that I have studied. Strivingsoul (talk) 03:15, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

I concur with Fred, anyone who doesn't see antisemitism in Duke's writing and views should not be anywhere near articles on the subject. Capeo (talk) 17:56, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

What I am simply proposing is balancing the article and admitting the blatant bias of relying primarily on Jewish/Zionist organizations. You did not address any of my evidences and arguments here but only rush to advocate restriction for no legitimate reason. This is not honest. Strivingsoul (talk) 18:29, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

You supplied no evidence, just typical antisemitic conspiracy theories. Comparing Iranian state run media to western free press is beyond ridiculous. Yes, certain outlets tend towards certain political leanings but they all have one thing in common: they freely criticize or report on criticisms of their governments and state establishments and report on everything and anything newsworthy no matter how it makes their home country look. Daily. With no fear of repercussion from the government. As opposed to say, IRNA, which sets out guidelines that must be followed by their "journalists" that allow for no criticism of the state or Islam. Please. Next time a Western country throws a journalist in jail for "propaganda against the establishment" let me know. Until then, you have no point and should stay far away from away from articles on the subject. Capeo (talk) 20:33, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Western media control is much more subtle and systematic in nature and it is because of the corporate control of the media that is interconnected with others in the rich corporate ruling class. See Corporate media for this scholarly thesis. So the real influential people in the West are not politicians but the super-rich corporations who fund electoral campaigns and lobby for corporate gain and dictate government policies through "non-profit" foundations, promote their commercials for profit etc. Western sources especially in countries like USA, UK, Canada are also notorious for preventing the public from knowing about many dark facts of their foreign policy, e.g. imperialist catastrophic wars against nations driven by corporate grid disguised under "humanitarian intervention" or "democracy promotion" or decade after decade of unconditional financial and diplomatic support for the Zionist regime despite its long hideous human rights record and several acts of massacre committed against muslims. So you can't have a correct assessment of "freedom" in the press if you are not familiar with Political economy critical analysis of the corporate media or have not followed alternative media reporting of the crucial issues that are systematically censored or highly under-represented or misrepresented by a small number of Corporate media conglomerates that control 90% of the media outlets. But contrary in Iran, big money is not dictating news and public opinions but Islamic principles of a muslim nation. In Iranian state media, presidential candidates all enjoy a free and equal time to present their platform without needing to spend tremendous sums on campaigning, but in the West big corporations can practically decide the outcome of the elections depending on which candidates they choose to financially support. In the West big money rules and defines freedom but in Iran it is the Islamic virtues of its committed leaders. And if there are some fringe journalists who were sentenced for their treason or offending the Islamic beliefs of the majority that doesn't say anything to support the idea of lack of press freedom in Iran. Iran has a constitution that overwhelming majority of Iranians voted for in a public referendum. Strivingsoul (talk) 03:15, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

I honestly don't know why I'm responding, this will be my last, but I can't help myself. I'm aware of all the deficiencies inherent to corporate media and corporate influence on politics. Do you know why? Because these issues are constantly reported on by a vast array of media outlets and politicians in the U.S. You think you're exposing some dark secret yet these discussions and criticisms are at the forefront of debate in the U.S. precisely because we have a free press and the ability to criticize whatever we we wish. This: "And if there are some fringe journalists who were sentenced for their treason or offending the Islamic beliefs of the majority that doesn't say anything to support the idea of lack of press freedom in Iran," displays a stunning disconnect in regards to what a free press and freedom of speech are. Capeo (talk) 12:59, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

• Just a note to mention that I've opened Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/User:Strivingsoul. Viriditas (talk) 03:27, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Proposal: Community ban

Proposing an indefinite community ban from Misplaced Pages or a topic ban on anything related to Judaism, broadly construed, per Misplaced Pages:Competence is required and based on the discussion above, especially the claim regarding David Duke that "Studying his career over the last decade I never saw him harboring any racist sentiments against Africans or advocating anti-Semitism." Gamaliel (talk) 04:22, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

And what's so terrible about that claim to deserve a topic ban?! Please cite evidence to counter my claim. I can still cite many more evidences to back up my claim. Others have presented virtually non! And what a fair way of conducting an ANI discussion indeed! Rushing to topic ban regardless of any substantial evidences exchanged! I'm not here to cause trouble but work according to WP:NPOV and to minimize WP:BIAS. Is that what warrants such an aggressive measure against me?! I recommend allowing this discussion to proceed further in the mainspace talk pages. It is too early to judge! Strivingsoul (talk) 04:30, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

I also tag an experienced muslim Wikipedian that I have worked with on Islam/Iran-related topics for arbitration. Some participants in this page seem to be more or less biased against me and the topic, and ignore my explanations. @Sa.vakilian:. Strivingsoul (talk) 06:43, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

I come here due to Strivingsoul's request and do not want to participate in ideological or religious discussions. @Gamaliel:, As I know, we should judge about the users based on their activities not their ideas. Let's check whether Strivingsoul or Andres Feder have violated the wikipedia policies and guidelines or not. --Seyyed(t-c) 06:03, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

What does it matter that he is Muslim? The issue being discussed is your behavior, not your religion. Being Muslim isn't a justification for being disruptive.--Anders Feder (talk) 06:13, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Anders Feder! You are the one who instigated this whole mess to begin with! You've lumped together so many different issues in your first post that can not be properly addressed here with discernment. The last time I was also banned was also for a similar reason. An administrator rushed to take an unfinished talk-page dispute to ANI while I was still defending my case.

And the reason I brought up religion because as I explained earlier this dispute started out of we coming from diametrically opposed philosophical/political persuasions. You were strongly biased against Iran and Islamic topics hence I needed to counter some of your allegations with alternative information. Strivingsoul (talk) 06:39, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

So you are saying Sa.vakilian is in possesion of some "alternative information" that will vindicate views such as: " are trying to weaken the dominant culture in America by moral subversion"?--Anders Feder (talk) 06:51, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

No! But probably compared to you who are driven with your anti-Muslim prejudices, he has the integrity to recognize that I was basically quoting a Jewish journal quoting Jewish porn-producers saying exactly that: Jewish involvement in porn, by this argument, is the result of an atavistic hatred of Christian authority. They are trying to weaken the dominant culture in America by moral subversion. Strivingsoul (talk) 07:26, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Why were you quoting it? What were you trying to show?--Anders Feder (talk) 07:04, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Please don't unnecessarily drag this any further! You can just scroll up some paragraphs or use Ctrl+F to locate where I quoted it and in which context and purpose. Strivingsoul (talk) 07:26, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

The purpose is clear, and Gamaliel's proposal was made in response to it.--Anders Feder (talk) 07:33, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

If you are interested in evidence for my alternative view here is one from Duke's official website: "In truth, as racism is defined, if you believe in mutual respect of all peoples, and you oppose the oppression of a people by another people, you are not racist, but actually anti-racist. The truth is that any race can practice racism, not only white people.". Strivingsoul (talk) 08:09, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Since you're so concerned about quotes being used out of context, just pointing out that you omitted The truth is that the real ultra-racists are those who control the media. The Zio Media demonizes whites and incites hatred in blacks toward whites and self-hatred in many whites toward themselves. They do this so they can divide and conquer and control us all. They especially hate whites and seek to demonize whites because they see the 60 percent of the white population as their biggest competitors for power, so they want to weaken and demoralize white people, and create a coalition against white people while they are the true masters of media, finance and government. from that quote. ‑ iridescent 08:18, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

• Support topic ban "The best good will is for naught if a basic understanding of the facts, their mainstream interpretation and their cultural context are lacking." No ethnic group or nation should be subjected to editing this tone deaf. User:Fred Bauder Talk 06:22, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

I'm quite familiar with basic policies and workings of Misplaced Pages. But the problem is this discussion has become too loaded with various disputes. If it was not for Anders Feder extreme opinions and his taking so many different issues to ANI, I would have been proceeding in relevant talk pages to discuss and settle the disputes with other involved Wikipedians. And I can see you yourself admitted that Anders Feder's behavior was crucial for instigating this whole unnecessary controversies. Let's us just discuss and settle the disputes in relevant talk pages. I understand this thread has already become very exhausting and hard to judge so many disagreements. Strivingsoul (talk) 06:39, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

People can have a look at my recent useful contributions to Houthis to get an idea of my good understanding of Misplaced Pages policies. Strivingsoul (talk) 06:52, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

"Death to America, death to Israel, damnation to the Jews." is not ambiguous. See your edit here. User:Fred Bauder Talk 07:29, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Don't cover up the full facts! Why do you need to cite out of context and ignore alternative POVs already covered in that page which reject the literal interpretation of that slogan?! Strivingsoul (talk) 07:53, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

• Support community ban, will accept topic ban from any content relating to Jews or Judaism as a start if necessary - Per , , and his repeated bigotry throughout this thread. StrivingSoul is either incapable of understanding what antisemitism is, or is here to push an antisemitic POV. Either way, his presence is a net loss to the site. He's repeatedly been told that that's unacceptable, and it's time we show it. Ian.thomson (talk) 07:35, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

It is you who doesn't understand what anti-Semitism is! Please stop pushing for your accusations and have a look at Criticism of the Israeli government#Objections to characterizing criticism of Israel as anti-Semitism! Considering our unresolved dispute here, you are by no means an impartial arbitrator! Anders Feder has only canvassed biased users against me to corner me by completely ignoring any of the extensive explanations I have offered so far, and repeating baseless accusations! Strivingsoul (talk) 07:53, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

You'll find that most users on this site are similarly "biased" against antisemitism or any other sort of bigotry. There is a huge difference between criticizing the policies of the Israeli government (something Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper, does fairly often) and pretending that a known neo-Nazi is somehow not a bigot. If you can't tell the difference, you don't belong here. That dispute was resolved, and everyone found that you were wrong. The only thing that was left unresolved was that we failed to block you as a troll for pretending that a man who headed an organization dedicated to violence against blacks and Jews is somehow a spokesperson for tolerance. When you said that you never saw any evidence of racism on his part, you were lying either to us (as a troll) or to yourself (as a bigot). Either behavior does not belong here. Ian.thomson (talk) 08:07, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

That's not true! Did you honestly read my explanations for example when I said: I did not mean he has not been a White supremacist. But from studying his recent interviews, articles and books over the last decade that are available, it is clear that he no longer advocates white supremacy. Furthermore, I linked evidences that he openly rejects racism in his statements over the last two decades. My argument is that the charge of racism is true only for the period that he was involved with KKK in 1970s. But at least for the last two decades he does no longer harbor racism against any group. And I have already provided sufficient evidences to back this up if only you care to study them! The problem is this dispute should've been resolved in the book's talk page and not dragged here. This whole controversy started from a disagreement on reliability of Iranian sources. Completely irrelevant to the accusations you posed here. Strivingsoul (talk) 08:15, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

It's not like your efforts to bog down constructive editing in rants regarding how mainstream sources are controlled by the Rothschild family, the British queen, etc. are any more helpful to the project than your defense of the views of David Duke.--Anders Feder (talk) 10:54, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Don't twist, generalize, falsify, lie! Have some shame! Produce evidence, context and link for anything you attribute to me next time! Strivingsoul (talk) 02:59, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

• Support indef. WP:NPOV doesn't mean being obliged to give every racist crackpot theorist equal airtime to mainstream views, and given the responses in this thread, this editor is never going to understand that. ‑ iridescent 08:21, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
• Support indef. per above. — Ched :  ?  08:25, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
• Let's just halt this mess for a second, Users here drop in and are simply provoked by the gross appearance of the charges against me and ignore my extensive explanations. But this whole accusatory mess against me started when Aders Feder dragged a dispute over reliability of Iranian sources to ANI and lumped it together with many other unresolved issues in the past such as the dispute over neutrality of David Duke book' analysis to condition the users against me. I should make it clear that I do not advocate anti-Semitism but it is vital to allow legitimate criticism of Israeli government or Jewish pornographers from a Christian point of view such as that of David Duke to be properly represented in the articles as per WP:NPOV, and we can resolve and decide this in the relevant talk pages as I had once attempted here: Talk:Jewish Supremacism: My Awakening to the Jewish Question. This has really become an unnecessary loaded fuss and unfair accusation game against me over so many unresolved issues. Let's us just proceed to settle them in the long run. I apologize for my part for indirectly having contributed to this controversy but like I said I was not the one who started this but Anders Feder! Strivingsoul (talk) 08:29, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

No one are "ignoring your extensive explanations". They read your extensive explanations and conclude that they amount to nothing.--Anders Feder (talk) 08:40, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) This is not "ignoring your extensive explanations". Your "extensive explanations" are predicated on the assumption that the ultra-marginal views of David Duke are mainstream enough that NPOV mandates they be discussed. For anyone unfamiliar with David Duke, just reading his official homepage should speak for itself. ‑ iridescent 08:46, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

What if those "ultra marginal" views such as ones expressed in his book are exhaustively backed up by +600 scholarly references?! I think WP:BIAS warrants fair representation of his views especially when they are properly backed up. His views are also not ultra-marginal and not even quite marginal! There are many left-wing, right-wing and even Jewish critiques who concur with many of his points in regards with Zionism. Example: Noam Chomsky, Israel Shahak, Robert Faurisson, Norman Finkelstein and Neturei Karta. There are also many Christian Conservatives and Palocoservatives who might not be as outspoken or well-known as him but still share his views on emigration and/or defending Christian values against liberal/Jewish cultural war. Examples E. Michael Jones, Neal Gabler, Ron Paul, Pat Buchanan and more. Strivingsoul (talk) 09:17, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

• Support indef, or ban (although that seems unnecessary), or topic ban (although that would probably just move the advocacy elsewhere). Supporting Duke is one type of problem, but making the statement quoted above indicates a much deeper issue because editors have to be sufficiently competent to understand basics, particularly when engaging in these areas. Johnuniq (talk) 10:17, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
• Support siteban (first preference) or topic ban (second choice). Among the things Misplaced Pages does not need, unashamed apologists for white supremacism and antisemitism must surely rank near the top. Guy (Help!) 12:12, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
• Support Whatever has the greater consensus. Although topic ban should really be attempted first. Reason: RE David Duke, sheesh. Only in death does duty end (talk) 12:16, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
• Support I was waiting till I saw their responses to me from last night before I proposed a siteban myself. Now that I see them this morning. Just... wow. David Duke and the word "scholarly" in the same sentence? There is nothing good that's going to come from Strivingsoul's continued presence here. Capeo (talk) 12:48, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

You just like pretty much everyone else in this page, have no idea about Duke beyond than ADL/Zionist propaganda or his past KKK association back in 1970s! You don't even know the guy has a Phd in history! You have not read his scholarly book that contains 600+ references! So you just jump in the bandwagon to spew out "Ban ban ban ban!" You seem so biased and misinformed about this man that you apparently even can't believe your eyes when looking at several pieces of evidences that I have offered in my lengthy discussions! ### for everyone else supporting "ban ban ban ban"! Strivingsoul (talk) 14:34, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

You're really not helping your case with your continued insinuations about Zionist propaganda. In any case, people with advanced degrees and published books can still be bigots. One only needs to look at David Duke's website to realize that while he's shied away from the overt bigotry of his KKK days, he still harbors a lot of the same feelings towards Jews. clpo13_(talk) 15:01, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

David Duke got his "Ph.D" from a Ukrainian diploma mill know for its for virulent anti-antisemitism. They handed it to them because he supports their views. He's not a scholar and his book's supposed scholarly references are quote-mined bullshit taken out of context. He's never published in any journals, never cited by actual scholars and is a complete joke. Not to mention he went to jail for bilking his followers. Your "evidence" is, again, quote mined bullshit that in no way examines the context of the quotes and tries to paint said quotes as speaking for an entire people. It's disingenuous trickery used by people with no argument. Can we just ban this person at this point? Anyone seriously arguing that Duke meets reliability criteria or is a scholarly source lacks the competence to edit here. They're here to push their POV and that's it. Capeo (talk) 15:23, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

"Known for its virulent anti-Semitism" Yes! Dare to criticize Zionist genocidal policies or point out things like atheist Jewish pornographers' self-declared agenda of weakening Christianity by moral subversion, or US unconditional support for Israel's occupational apartheid, and then be branded as "anti-Semite" by ADL's Stalinist thought policing, to the point of even making the absurd claim of Self-hating Jew for decent Jews who point out the same injustices by their fellow tribesmen! And my evidences prove that there are perfectly legitimate grounds in David Duke's or (others', for that matter,) criticism of extremist, anti-Muslim, anti-Christian elements with Jewish background, unless you're advocating the view that once someone happens to come from a Jewish background, he or she somehow miraculously becomes infallible and should not be criticized for anything wrong! Strivingsoul (talk) 02:53, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose (community ban) While I agree with most of the above discussions about lack of competence regarding the David Duke and related issues, there is not enough evidence of Policy violations. Therefor, I think "topic ban" is enough to punish him and community ban is not justifiable. I wonder how the above comments are made in support of the proposal without trying to show how the editor has violated policies and which policies have been violated.​ The discussion, despite being full of hot comments, is not what an ANI discussion should be.--Seyyed(t-c) 14:18, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for some little sense! But about "lack of competence" what's that?! And the only policy that seems I have grossly, badly, awfully violated is ADL's political correctness!! But I didn't know that's part of Misplaced Pages policies, you know! Nobody even told me that! But maybe you can guide me to the relevant Wiki help page! Strivingsoul (talk) 14:38, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

WP:CIR is enough. There need not be specific policy violations cited for the community to decide that an editor is a net negative to the project due to soapboxing, POV-pushing and overall lack of a clue. Capeo (talk) 15:31, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

• Support community ban. This editor, while making a few constructive edits, has engaged in repeated disruption that results in a net negative for the project. Mamyles (talk) 14:22, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Net negative indeed! I had planned to work on multiple Iran/Shia/Islam-related topics and help other Farsi-speaking editors with English language! But apparently the net negative is really worth it for God forbid disagreeing with ADL or Zionist political narrative! It's you know such an irredeemable crime against humanity! Strivingsoul (talk) 15:08, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

• Support topic ban on anything relating to Jews or Judaism. His continued assertions that David Duke's reputation is merely the result of the "ADL or Zionist political narrative" indicate an unwillingness to be neutral when it comes to this topic. With regards to policy violations elsewhere, I'm not convinced this editor is enough of a problem to justify a complete community ban. clpo13_(talk) 15:33, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

"Merely a result of..." when did I say that?! I already admit that Duke deserves criticism for his past association with KKK! But that's not justification to brand him as anti-Semite for criticizing the grotesque crimes of the Zionist state, or the influence of Zionist lobby on US foreign policy, or atheist Jewish pornographers that have vowed to subvert Christian culture in American by promoting moral degeneracy! And it is interesting you talk about neutrality but support ADL's biased review of his book to be cited as fact! Strivingsoul (talk) 02:53, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Ad it is interesting you talk about neutrality but support ADL's biased review of his book to be cited as facts! Please show me where I did or said anything of the sort. clpo13_(talk) 03:17, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

WP:STOPDIGGING. Support topic ban, at least, as per Onel5969. GAB 01:06, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

• Support site ban. The David Duke comments seem to reflect a deeper inability to look at sources/issues and be able to discern propaganda/conspiracy from actuality and that is a massive competence issue. The "... Zionist political narrative!" bit does it for me Jbh 15:38, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
• Support site ban as per Gamaliel's nomination. Editor's continued responses to each vote only confirms the underlying assumption which prompted the ban suggestion. Onel5969 16:12, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
• Support site ban per nom; nothing more to be said. BMK (talk) 23:13, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
• Support site ban -- WP:COMPETENCE, complete cluelessness, quite possibly being a troll ("Atheist Jewish pornographers that have vowed to subvert Christian culture" -- how tired), etc etc. EEng (talk) 02:50, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
• Support site ban Just keeps digging. Irondome (talk) 02:58, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
• Support site ban. I see nothing to suggest Strivingsoul has any interest in following Misplaced Pages's principles, either in his contributions history or this very ANI thread. Someguy1221 (talk) 03:27, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

User:Digvijay411 biased editing

This user is biased towards pages such as Karanvir Bohra and even Surbhi Jyoti - they keep on adding trivial information which has been removed by other editors, get angry with users when they remove information from those page, and revert those edits, he/she is biased against pages such as Karan Singh Grover and gets information removed from the page by contacting editors such as User_talk:TheRedPenOfDoom or by directly doing so themselves, their biased editing ways is evident through this page ]103.12.211.188 (talk) 10:25, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Maybe you used the wrong link; the link you posted goes to that user's entire contributions listing—but if that is what you intended to do, well, you have to give a much more specific example than that. Erpert 00:03, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

ok give me sometime, I will show you specific examples soon, regards103.250.184.45 (talk) 04:58, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

I would also suggest that you register an account because having the same user posting from different IP addresses becomes rather confusing to other users. Erpert 23:43, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Hello it is me! Made a username, I will show you proof soon, sorry I am busy with assignments currently, regardsA-wednesday (talk) 09:36, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Behavior by CoffeeWithMarkets

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

CoffeeWithMarkets (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

CoffeeWithMarkets is engaging is disruptive battleground behavior and personal attacks on the talk page of Kim Davis (county clerk) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (see , , , ). Also refactoring others' comments that were not violations (, ). They also were move warring on Kentucky same-sex marriage license controversy which has now been protected by Zzuuzz. User was warned about behavior and has not stopped. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 17:57, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Other disruptive behavior includes claiming personal attacks when none exist (e.g., ) and IDHT and claims of persecution or coordinated harassment by others (, , , , ) EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 18:06, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

• Up until now, I thought CoffeeWithMarkets was a pretty reasonable user. The behavior today, which has included personal attacks, defensiveness, badgering, irrational arguments, and edit warring strikes me as coming from someone who is experiencing a lot of personal stress and is lashing out as result. CoffeeWithMarkets should strongly consider stepping away for a while and coming back with a fresh perspective. This is an encyclopedia—it's just not worth getting that worked up over.- MrX 18:31, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Sounds like s/he should coin his/her username and have some coffee. Erpert 00:01, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Not seeing any attacks, I see a frustrated user, but that's about it. Yeah, his removing your comment about voting was wrong, and him calling it an attack was also wrong, but I'm not seeing him attack you, also remember this article's contentious, so it's going to generate a lot of heat. This more looks like a case for dispute resolution. KoshVorlon 11:01, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

I don't see any serious attacks on either side. It's a content dispute, sometimes they get heated. So far everyone here has been pretty civil. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 14:54, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

• Surprised to see this because I have been consistently impressed by the quality and tone of CoffeeWithMarkets' editing on many pages.E.M.Gregory (talk) 01:56, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Lord and Taylor COI editor - various IPs

74.76.148.38 (talk · contribs) - only currently active IP, but there have been at least three others.

This is a problem brought over from WP:COIN. A series of IP editors is editing articles related to Lord & Taylor, their related companies, and their CEO. Details at Misplaced Pages:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard#User:74.76.148.38_.2F_Lord_and_Taylor. Previous WP:COIN activity: Misplaced Pages:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard/Archive_91#Saks_Fifth_Avenue_marketing_team The IP editors are all SPAs, confining their edits to this family of companies. There's no declared COI, but one edit comment (, with comment "(redundent Information - as per request of HBC)" indicates a undeclared COI.) The edits are mostly OK, but bad news, such as store closings and poor financial performance, has been deleted, leaving only happy marketing-like talk. Edit warring warnings have been placed on the IP's talk page by various editors.. The IP editor deletes the warnings, but does not respond. Suggest a week or two of block on the IP for now, since they won't talk to anybody. We need to get their attention. John Nagle (talk) 20:48, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

See also discussion at Talk:Saks_Fifth_Avenue#Edit-warring_by_.22SAKS_FIFTH_MARKETING_TEAM.22. What we have here is a failure to communicate. John Nagle (talk) 20:52, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Hello, this is the only notification I have regarding this matter. All edits I've listed reasons why, and the "negative" information I believe you are talking about has been transferred to the parent company's page, which was explained clearly in the reasons for editing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.76.148.38 (talk • contribs) 21:22, 6 October 2015‎

The IP just attempted to blank this discussion as well as one at Lord & Taylor, and an immediate block would appear to be in order. JohnInDC (talk) 21:39, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

• 72 hours hardblocked for disruptive editing.
   — Berean Hunter (talk) 21:43, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

The IP editor just contacted me on my talk page. I suggested he register an account, declare a COI, and we'd go from there. About the same time, the IP editor blanked the discussion on AN/I, and was, of course, blocked for that. I see they also deleted their block notice on their talk page, which has been restored by the blocking admin. Well, we tried asking nicely first, and it didn't work. John Nagle (talk) 21:56, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

I would also suggest bringing all affected articles to WP:RPP. Erpert 23:59, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

No unusual edits have happened on the relevant articles since the block, and the articles are now on many watchlists. I'm inclined to wait and see what happens. John Nagle (talk) 00:31, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Kwamikagami

Kwamikagami (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been mass moving pages and then editing the resulting redirect page to block non-admins from moving those pages back. See here for example, where he moved a page away from the common name despite two previous failed move requests (1 and 2). Given this user's history, which includes a block this March for similar undiscussed and disruptive page moves (see also the archived thread) and being desysopped for move warring, I would hope the community would take some sort of corrective action. Calidum 00:03, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

I edited the pages because they had the wrong tag on them. Wasn't aware of the previous move requests, but that's just for one page. The others go into tedious detail about how the name of the article is incorrect. And the Japanese one is mistranslated. Easier just to use the correct name to begin with, and note the others. — kwami (talk) 00:09, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

"Wasn't aware of the previous move requests". Odd, considering you participated in the last one in 2011. oknazevad (talk) 00:23, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

• Comment I doubt anyone remembers every move discussion they've participated in for the last four years. That being said, Kwami needs to be more careful with regards to consensus of page moves particularly in light of the warning in March. I can't recommend a ban based on one recent example though so unless there are multiple recent problems of controversial moves, I couldn't support much more than a whaling and a reminder that we don't have deadlines. Wugapodes (talk) 01:01, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
  • He moved several other pages as well, which can be seen in his contributions. I only gave that one example because it's a topic I feel editors would be more familiar with and because the two previous move requests. While he may not remember participating in a past discussion at that page, WP:RM#TR says not to move any page as "uncontroversial" if there were any past discussions about the name, which to me means an editor should make sure there were no such discussions. If Kwami were a new user with no baggage, I'd be less concerned about his actions. He's not, however, and that's why I took this issue here. Calidum 01:12, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
    • Looking through them I didn't see any that were, on their face, as controversial as the example you listed, ie, none seemed to have old move requests. None are clearly outside policy—just imprudent, but an admonition of "be more prudent" doesn't seem satisfactory, particularly in light of the March discussion. I see a ban as too much, but a warning as too little, so I will continue to refrain from a course of action until there's further discussion. Wugapodes (talk) 02:04, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
• Suggestion Kwami, would you consider a self-imposed restriction not to move pages at least for a while? Less drama all around. Darx9url (talk) 03:44, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I can do that, though I move redirects as an easy way to cover variant spellings, and I know there are people who would insist those should count as page moves. The main problem comes from the hundreds of moves I make that no-one has any problem with. I've seen discussion take three months even when no-one objects to a move. That's the main reason I just move the article -- if someone objects it can always be moved back and we save months of tedium. — kwami (talk) 04:33, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

If the concern is variant spellings and alternate names, I would recommend just creating the redirects as a new page. Otherwise there's too much potential for conflict and drama. And I'd also recommend double checking the article's talk page for any page move, in line with WP:BEFORE (which is about AFD, but is good guidance for any major article change, such as title changes). Saves everyone possible headaches. oknazevad (talk) 15:48, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I should check TALK. That's good advice. But as for creating a new page for every redirect, languages will sometimes have a dozen common alt names and spellings, and creating a dozen new pages for each of a dozen new language articles is a time-consuming pain in the ass. Much more efficient to create one and then move it to the others. And since there's no talk page, there's no worry about BEFORE. — kwami (talk) 18:51, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

It's really poor form to move a page without need. It creates all sorts of potential double redirect issues (are you manually fixing them, or letting a bot do the work?) and it's actually more of a pain in the ass (in my view) to do that instead of just copying and pasting the same #REDIRECT ] code over as many times as needed. Moving pages takes a lot more resources and should be avoided. I just don't see how that's a beneficial method for accomplishing your goals. oknazevad (talk) 21:13, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

I find it highly problematic that Kwamikagami considers discussion with other editors to be "tedium", that he thinks that he should be able to decide by himself that a title is "incorrect", and that he thinks that recommendations to do things carefully are a "time consuming pain in the ass". These statements imply that this editor thinks that he is superior to the broader Misplaced Pages community, and ought to be exempt from its input, and from consensus. If other editors think that I have misread the meaning of these comments, please let me know. I will reconsider. Cullen Let's discuss it 07:28, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Proposal: Page-move ban

Propose a page-move ban on Kwamikagami. Even after blocks and a desysopping for pagemoving, he doesn't get it and insists on having his own way. His extensive block log is making him look more and more WP:NOTHERE. I think he needs a ban on page moves, violation of which should result in a block. If he wants to prove that he is WP:HERE to build an encyclopedia, he can edit constructively (and collaboratively) rather than moving pages. Softlavender (talk) 07:42, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

• Support, as proposer. Softlavender (talk) 07:42, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
• Support, his explanation for editing the redirect doesnt fly with me. Its obviously a blocking attempt to prevent a reversion. Were Kwami a less experienced user this might have been reasonable. Kwami however knows exactly what they are doing when they move pages. Thats why they have been sanctioned for it previously.Only in death does duty end (talk) 07:51, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Bot bug with User:lowercase sigmabot III

Notice on the page Talk:J._Robert_Oppenheimer that when the archiver ran it erased a section of the talk page which is no longer present anywhere in the archives. Prior to run and after run . Section discussing mesons disappeared and is no longer in the Talk page or its archive. I assume this is due to a bug? Klaun (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:17, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

For starters, this should really have been sent to Σ first as the operator. Now that we're here: looks like the archived discussion wound up on another archive page. The archiving template contains the field |archive=Talk:J. Robert Oppenheimer/Archive %(counter)d, thus the bot technically put it in the correct location; it seems it is not designed to follow redirects. — Earwig  03:34, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

User:lowercase sigmabot III page says to report problems here. If that is incorrect then perhaps that instruction should be corrected as well. I just noticed the problem and reported it. Klaun (talk) 13:00, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Ah, right—that's more for "oh crap, the bot's breaking everything, block it immediately!" moments than "I think the bot might have a bug". — Earwig  14:30, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Is it? Well, great! Next time I just won't say anything at all! Trying to figure out how to get something done on Misplaced Pages is about on par with navigating the Byzantine bureaucracy. Keep up the good work. Klaun (talk) 22:26, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

The wording is at {{Emergency-bot-shutoff}} maybe it could be tweaked. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 02:21, 9 October 2015 (UTC).

Disruptive editing and page moves

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

NuYorkCity (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

This editor has been here for eight days, in which time he has made 16 page moves, all (as far as I can see) adding closing parentheses to article and article talk titles. There's also a smattering of disruptive / vandalism type edits elsewhere. I can't decide whether to go to SPI (seems possibly reminiscent of Tobias Conradi) or AIV, so I've plumped for here. GoldenRing (talk) 10:24, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

@GoldenRing: I think you need to warn them on their talk page before taking the issue to ANI, perhaps using the template {{subst:uw-disruptive1}}. Thanks, Rubbish computer 15:52, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

GoldenRing, you should probably provide diffs for the supposed vandalism, but as for the page moves, well, those do seem to be rather disruptive. Erpert 23:34, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

From my brief look through, it seemed like every contribution from this account was vandalism. On a closer look I've found one or two that might be okay, but there are a considerable number that are introducing mis-spellings; admittedly they are almost all in this user's userspace. GoldenRing (talk) 19:38, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

@GoldenRing: I can't find any cases of "adding closing parentheses to article and article talk titles" - please give an example of this. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:12, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

GoldenRing may be misreading:

Coldry process ‎ (NuYorkCity moved page Coldry Process to Coldry process)

the closing parenthesis matches the opening one before NuYorkCity. In this case the removal of the capital P is probably correct.

All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 02:25, 9 October 2015 (UTC).

Boy, do I feel stupid. I learn again to take more care while jet-lagged... Probably best to close this and move along! Apologies to NuYorkCity and everyone who's wasted time on this. GoldenRing (talk) 09:12, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

HOUND, BATTLEGROUND, and NOTHERE block request

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Per WP:HOUND, WP:BATTLEGROUND, and WP:NOTHERE, I am requesting a block for TH1980 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). This has been an ongoing issue since February. Please review the evidence below, provided by the victim Hijiri88 (talk · contribs) and edited by me:

I will also add that on 2 October TH1980 posted to an ArbCom case request between Hijiri88 and Catflap08. Basically, if Hijiri88 is involved in a content dispute, TH1980 will show up and support the opposition whether they are wrong or right, and also appears on any Hijiri88-related ANI threads to request Hijiri88 be blocked. The fact that the majority of his edits during this timeframe are basically to harass Hijiri88 shows that TH1980 is not here to build an encyclopedia. I am pinging two editors who have also dealt with TH1980 during this time @Nishidani and Curly Turkey:. Hijiri88 is currently blocked, but if there are any comments he wants to add to this discussion before his block expires I can copy/paste them from his talk page. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 13:54, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

You should probably post this in the ArbCom case request. It's relevant evidence. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 14:06, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

(ec) I have often noted that both User:CurtisNaito and User:TH1980 are totally incompetent and should not be editing any historical articles regarding Japan. I say that as someone with a specialist knowledge of the field. Notwithstanding this, I have reserved some harsh comments for Hijiri, who is very knowledgeable but persistently argues the point with editors who show no capacity to listen to him, or others. In other words, Hijiri's problem is excessive intensity in dealing with people who should be ignored, which leads to a WP:TLDR flow whose only effect, on outside administrators unfamiliar with the details of the Japanese articles, is to buttress a glancing impression that he, rather than those he takes issue with, is the real problem. That he can't see this obvious flaw in his approach, is obvious, but it does not absolve the people with whom he has run-ins, since many others complain about their incompetence. A majority of competent editors are not, in the long run, going to support much of the editing abuse and incompetence from those two. User:TH1980 in particular, seems to follow Hijiri and, even if unvited, tagteam with Curtis. I have never been able to convince him of what WP:RS actually requires: his practice is to google a desired result, post it in, and stick to it. Sturmgewehr's evidence looks strong to me, and this problem should be addressed as a serious one. I'm too busy to provide the evidence diffs, but they are there on several pages where I had the same problems with these two, as Hijiri did.Nishidani (talk) 14:11, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

@Ivanvector: Apparently there is a word count limit for ArbCom case requests, so I can't post this there. When the evidence page opens after the case has been accepted, and if TH1980 attempts to post his "evidence" there, then I will post this there as well. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 14:41, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

As a clarification, the ArbCom case is between Catflap and Hijiri, there does not need to be any logical connection in dragging in separate editors there. TH1980 is not a party to the case. This should be dealt with at WP:ANI, in my opinion. Kingsindian ♝♚ 16:31, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

@Kingsindian: That's why we're here.. At ANI. And I already pointed out that the ArbCom case is between Hijiri and Catflap above. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話)

@Sturmgewehr88: I was referring to Ivanvector's comment, which seemed to suggest that they think that ArbCom is a better venue for this. If they meant that this should be listed at the ArbCom page in addition to WP:ANI, I agree with them. Though I think that is unnecessary/distracting unless CurtisNaito/TH1980 are added as party to the case. Kingsindian ♝♚ 16:43, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I meant. I don't want to get into yet another thread about Hijiri88, and I think that these two users' disruption is inextricable from the disruption caused by the two named in the ArbCom request, so they should go there too. It's relevant to what is sure to be Hijiri's defense. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 20:50, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose as this seems to me to at least raise rather clear questions of possible gaming of the system as per WP:GAME. The individual involved has made a statement in the case request, and there is every reason to believe that the case may be accepted shortly, considering that the current vote tally is 9 in favor of acceptance. I cannot see any good reason for someone to say, all of a sudden, that problematic behavior that has been, as per the opening comment of this thread, ongoing since February, now, all of a sudden, with the existing case about to be accepted, dealt with by a block of unspecified length, which might at least potentially make him ineligible to submit evidence to ArbCom directly. ArbCom in general deals with the behavior of all those involved, and, while I can see that perhaps this thread for some reason might be of interest to the ArbCom, I cannot see any pressing reason that it has to be dealt with here at this time. A temporary injunction regarding all those involved in the case and raising the concerns of the individual involved in the arbitration, would be to my eyes possibly more effective. Honestly, under the circumstances, at least to my eyes, the starting of this thread at this time is at least as much a concern as the long-term conduct it seeks to perhaps preemptively address. :*P.S. I also note the obvious statement made in the opening of this thread that the OP clearly and explicitly states that the evidence presented here was prepared by an individual who is currently blocked, and that might not unreasonably raise WP:PROXYING concerns of a sort. Also, I note that User:CurtisNaito's comment in the current request for arbitration starts with the sentence, "I am putting forward my name as an involved party," which seems to indicate that he considers himself an involved party. While the ArbCom has not yet decided, apparently, whether he is one, it certainly would be possible for Sturmgewehr88 to request the names of both be submitted for consideration as parties, although it may also be the case that at least CurtisNaito might specifically request the same himself if the ArbCom does not add him to the list of parties on opening the case. John Carter (talk) 16:46, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

@John Carter: Pardon my ignorance, I am not too familiar with ArbCom, but do they deal with random people giving evidence who are not party to the case? I have never seen this kind of thing. As far as I know, the TH1980 issue is totally separate from the Catflap issue. The fact that CN wants to be added to the case means nothing, unless they are actually added to the case. Not to mention that this thread is not about CN, but TH1980. Kingsindian ♝♚ 16:59, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

In most of the cases I have been involved in, one way or another, although I guess this might conceivably have changed recently, they tend to have said when accepting the case that they will review the behavior of all those involved. And, as per the statement I quoted above, CurtisNaito has apparently at least tried in a way to get himself included as a party to that case. Personally, I'm I think pretty close to my 500 word limit there, so I'm not sure I could officially add a link to this discussion to the request page without crossing the line, but I certainly would, as it were, have no objections to seeing this discussion mentioned to the arbs by anyone if they thought that it contained issues which might reasonably be addressed by the arbs in the case, perhaps particularly considering TH1980 has submitted evidence and on that basis might presumably qualify as "involved" in any event. But, yes, if anyone wanted to request the ArbCom perhaps clearly expand the scope of the case if and when it is accepted to clearly include the behavior of all those involved, which presumably includes those who have made opening statements, I don't think anyone would object to the request for clarification. John Carter (talk) 17:12, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict)@John Carter: Of course you oppose. The only thing this ANI thread has to do with the ArbCom case is that TH1980 only gave a statement there to harass Hijiri and is further evidence of the ongoing harassment. Your assumptions of bad faith are uncalled for. The "pressing reason" that I started this thread is that I actually had the time to do it today. I had planned to do this a month ago but life got in the way. And so what if he can't "submit evidence directly"? If he gets blocked it wasn't for no reason. Even if he was blocked, he could still pass on his "evidence" to a nice guy like you who'd be willing to paste it for him. And I'm trying to stop something that's been going on since February "preemptively"? Do you not know what "preemptive" means? I could equally accuse you of gaming, since you only oppose blocking a wikistalker so you can have one more !vote against Hijiri. And honestly, Hijiri will probably receive a lengthy block from ArbCom, but so will Catflap. Go study the above evidence I presented before you comment here again and claim that TH1980 has done nothing wrong. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 17:23, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

@Sturmgewehr88: The frankly disgusting and completely unsupported jump to conclusions regarding my motivations for taking part in this discussion is noted. You not only made assumptions of bad faith, but rather explicit statements of judgmental bad faith. Your conduct has rather regularly been at best questionable itself. John Carter (talk) 20:39, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

@John Carter: I have asked on the ArbCom case page to clarify the scope. Kingsindian ♝♚ 17:24, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

@John Carter: I copy/pasted the evidence from his talk page and modified it under my own free will. Enough with the WP:ABF. And why are you trying so hard to tie three separate issues together? CurtisNaito and TH1980 have edited together, but CurtisNaito has nothing to do with Catflap. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 17:35, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

@Sturmgewehr88: Regarding assumptions of bad faith, in your case, please read WP:HYPOCRISY. John Carter (talk) 20:39, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

You have made it clear to me in the past that you have Hijiri's e-mail address, as I was told to send some of the material I had gathered about Kenji Miyazawa to you which you might then send on to Hijiri. That being the case, the possibility of some sort of off-wiki collaboration is certainly possible. And, honestly, no one said you didn't do it of your own free will, as I cannot see how you could be literally legally forced to do it, which would be the only potential way it could not qualify as being "free will". However, the timing is more than a little interesting, the fact that Hijiri was, clearly, gathering material to be raised somewhere is interesting, particularly considering that there is a pending arbitration regarding his conduct in another matter. Also, honestly, considering that the existing block on Hijiri88 is due to expire from around 51 hours from my writing now, about 4 hours after your original post, there is also I believe a very serious question why you felt it required that this conversation had to be started now, rather than by Hijiri88 himself in about 2 days time. The only thing I can really see that might be different now than then is the possibility that the ArbCom case might perhaps easily be opened in the intervening time, and being blocked now might impact his ability to present evidence. John Carter (talk) 17:44, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

@John Carter: In this case I actually did communicate with Hijiri via email. I informed him that I intended to open an ANI thread against TH1980 and asked for him to compile evidence for me, which he did. This was a month ago. Then he pasted the evidence to his talk page a few days ago. I will gladly forward the original email if that's what you'd like. In short, I had this evidence from before he was blocked, so all your crap about proxying is out the window. And why didn't he start this ANI thread? Because he thinks TH1980 will leave him alone eventually and I think otherwise. And again, if he gets rightfully blocked and still wants to present evidence he can just pass it on to you. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 18:07, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

@Sturmgewehr88: So, let me get this straight. On 9/21, the date on both the e-mails in the e-mail I received, you exchanged e-mails with Hijiri88 regarding TH1980. And you saw a similar collection of evidence by Hijiri88 on his talk page a few days ago. And, despite your having once again degraded into assumptions, none of what I see above really provides any good indication to me why you felt it necessary to start this as a separate matter here at this time. I realize that you seem to have little experience with ArbCom, and that you seem to rather quickly degrade to vulgar, insulting, judgemental language with little if any need for prompting. Also, under the circumstances, taking into account Kingsindian having raised the point at the ArbCom case request case, I think it might well be reasonable to suspend any further commentary here until the arbitrators indicate there the scope of the case. If the behavior of all is considered, as I certainly believe may be the case here, it would probably be in your best interests to forward that e-mail to the Arbs, considering it addresses the concern I had raised. John Carter (talk) 19:06, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps, the discussion about ArbCom could be taken there or moved to a user talk page? I'd like to hear from TH1980 but he hasn't edited today. Who emailed who and when they emailed whomever is irrelevant to this complaint. Liz 20:24, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. And I would particularly be interested in his reasons for making a statement there, and his input on whether it was, as Sturmgewehr88 indicates above, primarily or exclusively for purposes of harassment. John Carter (talk) 20:39, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

I think that arbcom is going to have to look at this whole mess, especially since this seems to be evidence gathered by one user in that case, and used by another against a responder to the case. The original, almost exact evidence can be found hatted here User_talk:Hijiri88#Advice.3F. AlbinoFerret 20:59, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose pending ArbCom including TH1980 as a party to the case request, and a full investigation of everyone's conduct. This is a procedural oppose due to the case, although it also concerns me that this occurred immediately following the case request filing and admittedly came from Hijiri via StG, and it's been Hijiri's defense before that their conduct is excusable in light of other users' actions. Let ArbCom handle this. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 21:24, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose Hijiri88 is the one who has been stalking me. He immediately reverted a reliably-sourced addition I made to the article Korean influence on Japanese culture, and then added me to his attack page of enemies. I don't know why Hijiri was not sanctioned for creating an attack page targeting me and many other users. Then he showed up at the article about "The Magnificent Seven" (1960), even though he had no interest in this article before, just to revert another reliably sourced edit I made. Whenever I point out Hijiri88's stalking of @CurtisNaito: and Catflap08 he threatens me, like this time where he says "You can count on me seeing to your receiving harsh repercussions for this in the near future." He has left a half dozen harassing messages on my talk page like these. He is still following me around like when I edited the article "Twilight Zone Accident." Hijiri had no previous interest in this article, but still appeared right after me in order to modify the edit I made.TH1980 (talk) 00:00, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

One more thing: I posted at Arbcom for the same reason I commented on other threads involving Hijiri88 and Catflap08. I am concerned about Hijiri88's behavior and think it is a similar pattern to what I experienced. However, I am willing to become an involved party at Arbcom if the arbs believe that I should be involved.TH1980 (talk) 00:15, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose - Based on the evidence TH1980 has presented, I think it's clear that Hijiri88 has been stalking TH1980 at least as much as vice-versa. I'm somewhat concerned about the timing of this case, because it is being brought to the administrators' noticeboard just several days after TH1980 posted evidence at Arbcom and expressed concern that Hijiri would retaliate against him for doing so.CurtisNaito (talk) 02:17, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Procedural comment Although the open Arbitration request is primarily between two parties, ArbCom has the remit to bring others in as parties. In this request, a very large number of parties were added but then removed after some discussion. However, the committee clearly stated that they may reserve the right to add parties as they saw fit. Apart from Nyttend who is the filing party, John Carter is also included so implying that the Arbitration request is purely limited to Hijiri and Catflap is demonstrably incorrect. Given the past history, there is a likelihood that others such as TH1980, Sturmgewehr88 or CurtisNaito, may be included in the case. I recommend that this ANI be closed for the time being as the material is related to the case request. The last thing needed is second venue. Once Arbcom formally opens the case and finalises the involved parties, then, if necessary, this can be revisited. If the parties mentioned here are included in the case then Arbcom findings are likely to include them. So for now, I too oppose any sanctions be levied on TH1980. However, I would not oppose a reopening of this ANI after the close of the Arbcom case Blackmane (talk) 02:19, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

• Per Blackmane's above comment, I would like this thread to be closed/put on hold until the ArbCom case is closed. If ArbCom does not deal with TH1980 as an involved party, then I will reopen this thread sometime in the future. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 03:51, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Template:Corus Entertainment

I am requesting a ban for User:Spshu. This idiot has been nothing but disruptive, continually reversing edits despite them being at two levels of consensus. He has also been reversing edits at Disney XD (Canada).— Preceding unsigned comment added by MarcoPolo250 (talk • contribs) 14:32 (UTC) 7 October 2015

Please consider reading WP:BOOMERANG before continuing to personally attack your fellow users at this noticeboard. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 14:48, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

This is his second request at ANI over this template. In the original, he used a post by a banned user (Mdrnpndr) from the talk page that misused level of consensus concept and were no administrative action was taken. My response was that MarcoPolo indicated he did not care about sources which were in a embedded hidden comment ("Two, you indicate that you don't care one whit about sources with this edit summary: '...'Sources' be damned.)'") and that he has failed to join the discussion Template talk:Corus Entertainment#New structure except to comment on the thread, Template talk:Corus Entertainment#Consensus, that he swiped from Mdrnpndr in another thread used in that ANI report to say "I hate playing janitor. User:Spshu keeps messing things up. Ban him/her."

I have address Marco's objections in edit summary 18:20, 22 September 2015‎: "Nelvana is NOT a TV channel", changing "Cable TV/specialty channels" group name to "Cable TV divisions". He then reversed that with this edit summary: "Undid vandalism by Spshu" and today 'NELVANA. IS. NOT. A. CHANNEL."

I request a RfPP today in order to get him to join the discussion, which should have been evidently existed from my response to his previous ANI. How ever was turned down with direction to file at 3RR. Spshu (talk) 15:17, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Regarding, Disney XD, the general matter is level of sources, a primary source. ViperSnake changed it to "Television provider VMedia stated" to resolve the issue. Further edits have disconnected this and other source, forcing me to restore a correctly source version given the severity of the sourcing problem. Marco has reversed said restoration outright with no regard for the problem. Spshu (talk) 15:32, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Ivanvector in that MarcoPolo250 should watch out for the boomerang. But Marco, what exactly do you mean by "two levels of consensus"? WP:CONLEVEL doesn't refer to anything like that. Erpert 23:29, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

It was what I stated about Mdrnpndr's post. He attempt to use IP reverts as a "level of consensus" (

New location for Cause of death vandal?

The Misplaced Pages:Long-term abuse/Cause of death vandal usually operates from Leeds or Keighley in the UK, but two recent IPs from nearby Sale in the UK seem to be doing the same sort of stuff. Is it our old friend, or a new editor?

• 178.101.181.11 (talk · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))
• 82.6.168.150 (talk · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))

The Cause of death vandal was known to change infobox templates from specific ones such as musical artist to the most general one so that he could add missing parameters such as cause of death, spouse, etc. The new IP has done exactly that here and here with comedian infoboxes. Both of these Sale-based IPs are interested in UK politician bios, for instance they both touched the same biography, the second time changing the birth date away from that which is seen widely in the literature. Binksternet (talk) 19:28, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

WP:BEANS — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.176.58.121 (talk) 21:46, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure how WP:BEANS applies here... Erpert 23:20, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

• But the IP was right on Edward Herrmann. Not a vandal edit. Drmies (talk) 00:18, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
  • The cause of death vandal doesn't always vandalize articles. Bizarrely, he seems to freely mix vandalism, unconstructive edits, and constructive edits. I encountered him a few times back before the LTA report was written, and I remember being perplexed because he would change sourced data to obviously incorrect data in one edit, and then do more-or-less constructive, gnomish edits a few hours later. I don't pretend to understand why. Maybe he vandalizes when he's bored or doesn't like his homework assignment. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 03:50, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
• Geolocation for UK IP addresses should always be taken with a grain of salt, they almost never resolve to the location the person actually is aside from being in the UK. You have to use country based on behavioral evidence. Keegan (talk) 03:56, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
• What Keegan said ↑, correct as usual.--Jezebel's Ponyo 16:11, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

79.180.114.6 / 79.181.151.160

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This charming gentleman who got blocked for a week for putting outrageous personal attacks on my talk page, 79.180.114.6, is back and using a different IP address: 79.181.151.160. This latest message is a long, bigoted ramble:

אתה עדיין ילד אוטיסט ומכוער שכל מה שיש לו בחיים זה תסמונת סטוקהולם כלפי האויבים שלו. אל תחזור לישראל, אוטו-אנטישמים לא רצויים פה. תנסה לדבר עם צאצאיו של היטלר אולי יסדרו לך כיסא של כבוד על כל השנאה העצמית והגזענות שלך נגד העם היהודי.

מילא העריכות שלך היו הגיוניות, אבל הם לא:

• ערבים בישראל מזדהים בתור ערבים שגרים בישראל, לא ישראלים.
• דרוזים שגרים בישראל קוראים לעצמם דרוזים-ישראלים, לא רק ישראלים.

אם היית טורח לדבר עם אנשים מהאוכלוסיות האלה היית רואה שאתה עושה להם עוול ופוגע בזהות הלאומית הייחודית שלהם כשאתה מאלץ וכופה על מי שגר בישראל ויש לו ערך בויקיפדיה להיות חלק מעם אתני אחד שלא קיים. זה לא המצב בשטח, אף אחד מהקבוצות האתניות של בני המיעוטים לא מגדירה את עצמה כ"ישראלים" בלבד. הם לא מבקשים, והם גם לא רוצים.

• יהודים שגרים במדינת ישראל לא מתביישים להיות יהודים.

הם לא כמוך עם תפיסות גלותיות של התנצלות בלתי פוסקת על זה שהם נולדו יהודים. הם גאים בזה. אנשים כמוך שמנסים למחוק את הזהות היהודית- הם הגזענים.

אתה סתם ילד קטן שבא לפה לשנתיים וחושב את עצמו איזה חכם שיכול לפתור את כל הבעיות במזרח התיכון. אתה לא. זה הסיבה שאתה תמשיך לערוך דפים של ויקיפדיה, ובחיים לא יהיה לך ערך משלך.
— 79.181.151.160 (talk) 22:15, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Or in English (again, grammar errors etc retained from the original):

You're still an ugly, autistic child whose whole life is Stockholm syndrome towards his enemies. Don't come back to Israel, auto-anti-Semite you're not wanted here. Try to talk with Hitler's descendants maybe they're arrange you a chair of honour for all your self-hatred and your racism against the Jewish nation.

Many of your edits were reasonable, but these aren't

• Arab Israelis identify as Arabs who live in Israel, not Israelis

• Druze who live in Israel identify as Druze-Israelis, not just Israelis

If you bothered to talk to people in these communities you'd see that you're doing them an injustice and hurting their unique national identity when you impose on those who live in Israel and who have a Misplaced Pages article to be part of a single ethnic group that doesn't exist. That's not the situation on the ground, none of the minority ethnic groups identify as "Israelis" only.

They don't request it, and they don't want it

• The Jews who live in the State of Israel are not ashamed to be Jews.

They aren't like you with the diaspora concept of continual apology for being born Jews. They're proud of it. People like you who try to delete the Jewish identity—they're the racists.

You're just a little boy who came here for two years and thinks he's so smart he can solve all the problems of the Middle East. You're not. That's why you go on editing Misplaced Pages pages and will never have any value of your own.
— 79.181.151.160 (talk) 22:15, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Again, charming. —  Cliftonian (talk)  04:57, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

At the very least, they should be required to do their own translation to English. This is the English language Misplaced Pages, all personal attacks must be in English. ―Mandruss ☎ 05:03, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Escalating into Godwin's with attack number 2? That's a quick one. Surely this warrants a possible range block plus talk page protection. Blackmane (talk) 05:20, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Seconding the talk page protection. clpo13_(talk) 05:55, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

• Support a long term block (indef not being allowed for IPs) and a range block. Also support temporary page protection. -Ad Orientem (talk) 06:12, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Talk page semi-protected for one month. Materialscientist blocked the latest IP for 31 hours. KrakatoaKatie 06:43, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

This issue looks to be resolved. Are we okay to close this? Or are there additional questions/concerns that need to be discussed? ~Oshwah~ 06:48, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

I think this can be closed now. If the person persists I'll make a new thread here. Thanks everyone for all your help. —  Cliftonian (talk)  07:22, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Reporting possible vandalism or bot error?

At Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Directory/Description/WikiProject Catholicism instead of a list of WP editors, there is this

Major General Asmerom Gerezgiher was born in Gezalamza, Eritrea. He was a founding member of the Eritrean People's Liberation Front (EPLF) in 1977. Before founding that organization he had joined the Eritrean Liberation Front (ELF) in 1966

and more....

History shows 08:27, 30 September 2015‎ Reports bot (talk | contribs)‎ . . (38,985 bytes) (+998)‎

At Reports bot, talk - it redirects to User talk:Harej instead of a bot talk page.

Help please! This is way beyond anything that I could fix with an easy Undo. Is this vandalism or a bot malfunction?

Regards (WP Catholicism member), JoeHebda (talk) 11:47, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

It was because of this edit -- Finlay McWalterᚠTalk 11:58, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

IPs substituting file deletion templates

Recently, some IPs have been substituting file deletion templates and then often changing the {{imbox}} style so that the border colour is incorrect. See discussions at User talk:71.3.142.187 and User talk:71.3.142.74. User talk:71.3.137.41 has now started with the same practice. The IP addresses look similar, so they could all belong to the same person. Not sure what to do here. It is inappropriate to substitute the templates and change how they look as other users are likely to overlook the deletion templates that way.

Note that a few of the files have since been deleted, so some of the substitutions are now only visible to admins. --Stefan2 (talk) 12:10, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for raising this, Although I'm not sure what sort of input you want given that I only put the original tag on the images concerned, and made some reverts in good faith, I don't know why anyone would want to subst them. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 12:14, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

It wasn't just the border colour. In the case of 71.3.142.187 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) they were also altering the wording, either to soften the message, remove certain phrases or sentences, or to negate part of the message. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:33, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Sockpuppet creation bot?

If you look at the log for edit filter 527, you will see that somebody (or more likely, some bot) has been pumping out sockpuppet accounts for the past 24 hours. It gets in 6 at a time and then keeps trying unsuccessfully until someone (presumably) resets its IP and it does 6 more. I've blocked over 50 so far. The naming pattern is obvious. I've posted this at WP:SPI, but wanted to see if anyone here had any insights. NawlinWiki (talk) 14:02, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

To be honest, NawlinWiki, I don't know where to look to see what's going on...can you provide a link to point me in the right direction? Thanks. Liz 21:03, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

. Someguy1221 (talk) 21:20, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

We could set an EF to deny, as a temporary measure, more than 1, 2 or 3 account creations in a short period. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 02:04, 9 October 2015 (UTC).

Indeed with that naming pattern we can be even more robust. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 02:17, 9 October 2015 (UTC).

Threatening and discriminatory attitude from an editor

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I have been personally threatened by DaltonCastle, firstly by opening an into sockpuppetry with no evidence and then harassing a moderator into divulging personal information about me despite there being no connection between myself and this other editor the user has been historically involved in conflicts with. Similarly, it has been insinuated that I have connections with a corrupt government simply for making edits attempting to prevent possible defamation, POV-pushing and serious breaches of Misplaced Pages's guidelines on a BLP this user created, while my (very modest and helpful) edits to this page are what seems to have set this user off on this tirade.

Using such mob-style threats to dissuade editors from making helpful edits has no place here and I find it deeply distressing that this occurs on Misplaced Pages. Furthermore, I feel increasingly discriminated against based on my nationality as this user appears to have personal antagonisms against people from Argentina. SegataSanshiro1 (talk) 17:51, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

LOL! this is absurd. "set this user off on this tirade"?? "Personally threatened"???? I cant stress enough that this had nothing to do with you. Checkuser findings could have found information on any other editor. The admin said nothing on Misplaced Pages about what he found interesting. They also said nothing about it being related to you.

Remember when we both told each other to let the issue go? And you clearly have not. This is your last warning. Drag me through this again and Im reporting you for WP:Hounding. DaltonCastle (talk) 20:35, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

To be clear, here is what the admin said that peaked my interest: "Frankly, I'm a bit confused when I trace the history of this case from its inception to the present, not just my own direct involvement, but that of other CheckUsers. I'm reluctant to say what confuses me, so I'll leave it at that." This refers to so much more than SegataSanshiro. Other users, CheckUsers, possibly other admins.. Its frustrating that SegataSanshiro did not see past this and assumed I had malicious intentions against him. DaltonCastle (talk) 20:41, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Well, if it's not about SegataSanshiro1, DaltonCastle, can you agree to give each other a lot of room, not follow each other's contributions and generally ignore each other from here on out? And by dropping the stick, that also means an end to bringing complaints about each other to noticeboards, article talk pages and user talk pages. This will only work if you both agree to put this SPI in the past and move on. Liz 21:01, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Done. DaltonCastle (talk) 21:46, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Harassment on user talk page

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I feel that an editor has been harassing me on my Talk page (see Ahmed Mohamed), following a revert I made of an edit of his . Can I get any help regarding this? --Bob K31416 (talk) 22:21, 8 October 2015 (UTC) (The editor has been notified of this discussion . --Bob K31416 (talk) 22:24, 8 October 2015 (UTC))

It's standard practice for editors to drop a warning about active discretionary sanctions. This should not be seen as harassment as the DS warning templates can be somewhat confusing to use and every arbitration case that results in discretionary sanctions has its own template. MarkBernstein was acting in good faith when he attempted to notify you of the American Politics arbitration case. I'll go see if ArbCom levied DS's on that case. Blackmane (talk) 22:43, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

I see that MarkBernstein was able to find the DS templates relating to American Politics. Extra comment DS warnings are given to editors who edit in topics where DS have been authorised. It's more of a friendly warning so you won't inadvertently violate the sanctions and get yourself into hot water. Blackmane (talk) 22:45, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks but this editor essentially admitted that his templating wasn't friendly, "OK, I was trying to be friendly and informal. As that’s apparently unwelcome, I'll just use the template." --Bob K31416 (talk) 22:53, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Bob, I haven't looked at the whole picture and there may be a DE complaint in there somewhere, but with respect I don't see a harasssment grievance. Harassment generally implies a pattern beyond five user talk posts in two days, I think, and unfriendliness doesn't violate WP:CIVIL. It's also possible the posts have some merit, as I said I haven't looked further into it. If a few user talk posts tick you off, delete them, shrug them off, and move on. ―Mandruss ☎ 00:12, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

I don't think it would be good for Misplaced Pages to condone the editor's behavior by not taking any official action. I'm not looking for some major disciplining, but just something official that lets the editor know that he did something wrong. For example, an administrator could redact the template-placing edits from the history of my Talk page, along with the administrator posting a message on that editor's Talk page. Note that on the template's page is the following, "Alerts are a neutral courtesy; never use them to intimidate, coerce, or shame another editor."

Oh, I just noticed that this editor has a history of being blocked, including for "personal attacks or harassment". --Bob K31416 (talk) 00:45, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

The purpose was to prove you were aware of the sanctions. Their block log is not relevant. You are now aware of the sanctions. We are not going to redact them from the history because their purpose is to sit in the history as proof you are aware.

Your quote above trying to prove they were being unfriendly is silly. They tried to tell you in a less formal tone, you demanded formal evidence, you got the formal template. HighInBC 00:51, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

As a further point, MarkBernstein was obviously trying to follow the example set out in WP:DTTR as you have been here for a number of years. Templating is usually reserved for newer editors. MarkBernstein explicitly states that "One of these days, I've got to learn to use the templates" indicating that they are not familiar with the ArbCom templates. You then totally jumped the shark with a link to ] when no harassment had occurred. No administrative action, let alone even a warning, is warranted in this case. You edited an article that fell within and , you were given standard notification concerning these two Arbitration Cases. This is a courtesy. Blackmane (talk) 01:08, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

I think these are very poor responses, that frankly don't deserve more attention from me. I think you're doing Misplaced Pages a disservice. Anyhow, I've had enough of this. --Bob K31416 (talk) 01:21, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Repeated disruptions and extreme WP:NPA violations.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User Gabby Merger seems to go after anyone who dares to challenge their WP:POV. I came across the user when they inserted fringe claims about The Exodus. PiCo and I objected to inserting these religious fringe claims, but the user edit warred actively to keep them in , , , . I informed the user about WP:BRD and WP:3RR, encouraging them to use talk. Even their first comment on talk was mainly a WP:NPA violation against PiCo though mild compared to other attacks. This comment was 100% directed at insulting me, with no intent to discuss the article. The user has a very long history of personal attacks against any user who dares to cross them. Some examples, most of them dating back less than an hour.

• I'll follow you around and second-guess everything you do, and see how you like it (you definitely won't, and I definitely will...sauce for the goose (Against Jeffro77).
• You seem to many times get arrogant, disingenuous, uncivil, jerky, rude, dishonest, unfair, and selective in your analysis. (Against BlackCab).
• don't puke any more rude idiocy to me again (Against BlackCab).
• Check your own demented and obsessed rude and arrogant goofy self, sonny. (Against BlackCab).
• I'll be very apt in showing your hypocrisy, assuming bad faith, whines, ignorance, disrespect, disregard, and general incivility and bloviating. (Against me)
• You have zero credibility therefore, and are irrelevant yourself. (Against BlackCab, though on my talk).
• I stay away from blackcab because he's a toxic and venomous and extremely uncivil Against BlackCab, on my talk).
• you're childish and biased ) (Against me)
• BlackCab neurotically decided to chime in bad-faith garbage here...like a stalker and troll. Against BlackCab, on my talk).
• He has glaring double standards and incivility and bad faith attitudes and violations. (Against me).

Again, I'm sure there are many more examples if one checks, this long is just what I've seen in the last hours, mainly on my own talk and what BlackCap informed me about. Looking at these quotes from Gabby Merger, I think they make a very convincing case that the user is repeatedly violating WP:NPA and is WP:NOTHERE to contribute. Jeppiz (talk) 22:27, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Jezz has been on the article talk page, accusing and insulting. Also what do you think about this? Something no one else that I ever encountered on Misplaced Pages in my life. Jezz actually removed whole chunks of sentences from my comment on the Talk page, that he didn't like said about him, which was in response to insulting stuff he wrote about ME on the very same talk page. He undid part of my comment on the talk page. In total violation of Misplaced Pages guidelines. So he can write disrespectful negative things about someone on a talk page, accusing and abusing, but God forbid someone responds and says anything negative about him??!! He has glaring double standards and incivility and bad faith attitudes and violations. (And yes, wrongly putting additional jabs on my own talk page, beyond just a "3RR warning". But a hypocritical "I'll report you if you say not nice things about my on the article talk page" comment, though he has said VERY insulting things about me on the article talk page. Can dish out but can't take it. I do NOT have this same issue with the Doug Weller and the other contributor there, you'll notice.) But he removed whole sentences of my comment on the talk page, that he didn't like. Unbelievable. He has glaring double standards and incivility and bad faith attitudes and violations. (Also, I am careful not to violate 3RR.m And I've been discussing copiously, and this editor says I have ignored "Bold Revert Discuss" when that's all I've been doing for hours.) Please check out the stuff on the article TALK page. Not just edits and edit comments. Thanks. Regards.... Gabby Merger (talk) 22:29, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I did undo one comment by Gabby Merger on talk, as per WP:SOAP and WP:NPA as it was exclusively about me, not a word about the article of how to improve it. If an admin feels the comment belongs, they are of course free to reinstate it. Jeppiz (talk) 22:32, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Possible legal threat

Is this a legal threat? --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 00:13, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

It doesn't cross the line in my opinion, as it requires assuming facts not in evidence. I would hate to see such a lawsuit, too. ―Mandruss ☎

I think if you look at the comment in context, Mandruss, things are a little murkier. The account making that comment is almost certainly a shill for Atlantic International University, which gives the comment a whole, "would be a shame if something happened to this nice little website of yours", sort of vibe. Someguy1221 (talk) 00:24, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

I read it the same way Someguy did(It would be a shame...) I think it is meant to have a chilling effect and adversely effects our neutral point of view. HighInBC 00:26, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

I don't doubt the motive, I'm just unclear as to how explicit a threat has to be. If we consider context, I sit corrected. ―Mandruss ☎ 00:31, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Given the link provided by Mandruss DrFleischman and this post it is clear this person is trying to use the law as a tool of intimidation to adversely effect our neutral point of view. I have blocked for legal threats on that basis.

If they agree not to argue content disputes with legal "warnings" I will gladly consider the block to be no longer preventative and reverse it. I am happy for a review of this block an will abide by whatever consensus decides. HighInBC 00:32, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

For clarity, I think you meant the link provided by Dr. Fleischman. ―Mandruss ☎ 00:36, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, I looked at the wrong sig. HighInBC 00:38, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Prague astronomical clock

Prague astronomical clock is (one of) today's Google Doodles. It attracted me to that page, so a few eyes may be needed today. 220 of 02:08, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Google Doodle in Australia, New Zealand, UK (and elsewhere) that is, but not USA, as I assumed, if anyone was wondering what I was talking about.. 220 of 02:16, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

User:LilDennie Misplaced Pages (talk - contribs)

Despite any warning and a block in September, after this report, this user continues to contribute in write-only, creating non notable pages deleted more times. Wuchoo Know was created 3 times in 4 days (please note: with no meaningful content), and few days after, he/she created Wuchoo Know (Nicki Minaj song), deleted in semptember and created again yesterday (see AFD page). Other creations include U Got What I Need, the nonsense Template:PIOTL, Black Friday: Kimmie Blanco Reloaded, Kimmie Blanco Reloaded. Other edits, few days ago, includes lots of rollbacked contribs (ex.: , , , etc), and other. So, with more than 20 warning notices, 2 blocks (user is now blocked for a week), all ignored, he/she continues in write-only and, also after the 5th creation of "Wuchoo Know", it looks like clear vandalism, IMHO. I request an indef ban per WP:NOTHERE and persistent vandalism. Regards.--Dэя-Бøяg 03:47, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

I would support an indef given the user's edit history. Erpert 04:34, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Disruptive interactions by User:MusicAngels

MusicAngels (talk · contribs) is very disruptive in their interactions with other editors who disagree with them. I solicit the community's opinion what to do about this editor: possibly a community warning or ban, if that is possible, that prevents them from commenting on other editors; possibly a block, since their disruptive activity is still ongoing, with the latest example being today (Oct. 8).

Their most troublesome action is accusing editors who disagree with them of vandalism, trolling, and sockpuppetry; pursuing those accusations for weeks in multiple venues; and continuing to pursue them even after the allegations have been disproven. Other problematic actions include: removing other people's comments from article talk pages; telling IP editors they must register an account; misquoting Misplaced Pages policy to tell other users what to do or not to do; and making false statements. See details below.

Previous appearances at Misplaced Pages discussion boards:

• ANI, August 24, 2015 MA filed an ANI report against another editor, alleging "vandalism" because the other editor was removing links that MA added. The result was that MA was told the removals were not vandalism but valid cleanup, and they should have a civil discussion with the other user about it.
• Talk:AN, August 26 An IP user complained at WT:AN about MA's actions at articles created by MA, saying that they have "refused to allow editing, has labeled all editing vandalism, and disallowed any conversation." That discussion was never closed, but Bgwhite (talk · contribs) noted that despite being told at the previous ANI to stop battling over their content dispute with the other editor, MA continued adding the disputed links. User:Bgwhite also called attention to copyright problems identified at MA's articles by MusikAnimal (talk · contribs); those issues were seconded by other admins and eventually led to MA's articles being deleted.
• DRV, Septemer 3: After MA's article Poetry in the early 21st century was deleted for copyright violations, MA filed a DRV, claiming that the article had been deleted because of a "hoax" of "false copyright reports" made by a "disruptive IP hopping editor". (It looks to me as if the copyright problems had been discovered entirely by admins, including MusikAnimal and Bgwhite; see MA's talk page and the WT:AN report.) The consensus at the DRV was to endorse the deletion and reaffirm that the article had been a copyvio. Afterward, however, MA continued in other discussions to claim the deletion had been the result of a "hoax".
• ANEW, September 23: An IP reported MA to ANEW for edit warring; MA's response was to label the report a personal attack and imply socking by the complainer. Both users were warned and the page was full-protected.

Disruptive editing I have observed:

• Accusing and hounding other editors
  • I first became aware of MA when I was asked (by both the IP and MA) to look at MA's interaction with an IP editor whom MA was calling an IP-hopping troll. This was the user that had reported MA to WT:AN and to WP:ANEW. I discovered that MA kept re-adding that description, "IP-hopping troll accounts", to the IP's talk page after the IP removed it. MA re-added it four times by my count; see the history. I warned MA they were violating WP:NPA as well as WP:NOBAN and threatened to block them if they kept harassing the editor, and they stopped doing that. Meanwhile, still targeting that same IP user, MA launched a campaign to get a rangeblock against 192-range addresses and asked for a checkuser investigation and action from various admins: me, EdJohnston (talk · contribs), and SilkTork (talk · contribs). At EdJohnston's talk page, MA claimed that the 192 accounts were tracking MA's edits and accusing MA of things; this turned out to be untrue. MA actually had been subjected to some trolling by accounts in the 128 range, and MA had worked with EdJohnston to try to get a block of that range. But a simple check of their contributions showed that the IPs on the 192-range list had no connection with each other; most of them had not edited in years. The IPs, except for the sole active editor on the list - the IP that MA had been targeting - also had no connection with MusicAngels. The evidence that this list was not a sockfarm was clearly laid out at EdJohnston's talk page. Ignoring that evidence, MA then took the list to a third admin, SilkTork, asking for a checkuser of the 192 range list and claiming again that it represented an IP-hopping troll.
  • Several editors have posted at my talk page, or at MA's talk page, saying they are afraid to edit any article where MA is involved because of MA's "seeking revenge long after anything happens that offends them", "vindictive editing", etc.

• Removing other people's comments from article talk pages: Discussed here (note that MusicAngel later changed the section heading from the original "STOP DELETING TALK" to "IP editor identified for vandalism by three separate bots"). The removals being talked about were at the now deleted page Talk:Poetry in the early 20th century; MA justified the removals on the grounds that they were from an IP and were not properly formatted.

• Trying to force IP editors to register an account. Example: , reprimanded by MusikAnimal

• Misquoting Misplaced Pages policy to tell other users what to do or not to do
  • Ordering an IP editor to reveal their registered username, and telling them they must not edit until they did so; this was a direct violation of WP:LOGOUT.
  • At the articles James D. Corrothers and Cordelia Ray, MA reverted a sourced addition, citing BRD and claiming that the person should have obtained consensus at the talk page before inserting it, which violates the principle of WP:BOLD. The other person offered sources at the talk page, but MA ignored the sources and did not discuss the content, instead continuing to insist that the other editor follow BRD, even while the other user actually WAS trying to discuss.

• Making false statements.
  • False edit summaries, such as a claim that re-adding the controversial link to their own article was "requested" or "had consensus with another editor", which was not true.
  • The 192-range IP editor (the one MA kept calling an IP-hopping troll) said their address was the guest sign-in address of "a Maryland-area university". MusicAngels told EdJohnston that the IP was from the University of Maryland. Just a few hours later they said at my talk page that the IP was from Johns Hopkins.

• Final straw as far as I am concerned: Today, October 8, MusicAngels posted a "who is it?" type comment on their own talk page, asking for help in identifying a couple of IP editors. This looks like yet another attempt to "out" IP editors, even though WP policy on that subject had been explained to them several times. But what really brought me to the point of ANI: They posted the comment on October 8, but they falsified the timestamp to make it look as if they posted it on August 24! I had been waiting to see if they would learn from the various conversations and warnings they have received from multiple people. This last little act of deception, in connection with yet another attempt to "out" IP editors, convinced me that they have not learned anything and the community may need to step in. I do not wish to take any action myself because I could be considered WP:INVOLVED. --MelanieN (talk) 05:23, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Holy mackerel, that's a heck of a lot of disruptive and deceptive and against-policy behavior, and a heck of a lot of admin posts to their talk page, for an account not even 7 months old. I think this looks like a definite WP:NOTHERE block. Softlavender (talk) 05:53, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

I'll have to agree with MelanieN's assessment, and that further action is necessary. I was not aware of the half of what has been presented above. I was under the impression the user suffered general incompetence and/or inability to get the point, but it looks like there's more behavioural concerns. The deceptive timestamp is baffling. I was trying to think of how a script might have malfunctioned but I can't come up with a good theory. MusicAngels anything to comment on that in particular? — MusikAnimal 06:02, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Cool headed admins needed

We have a recent RfC which I closed as providing clear support for one article on the ongoing Kentucky same-sex marriage brouhaha. We currently have:

• Kim Davis (county clerk) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Kentucky same-sex marriage license controversy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), for which I procedurally closed an AfD; this and the Davis article are effectively a pair of POV forks.
• Miller v. Davis (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), the best of the three by a long shot in terms of Misplaced Pages standards

It's not clear if the lawsuit is covered by the RfC, I would argue that it is since it is all one event. There's a move debate underway at the Kim Davis article, aimed at settling the question of whether the merged article should be presented as a biography or as an article on the event. I am persuaded that the event is the right answer, as is Jimbo according to comments on his talk page, but there is a lot of passion here for keeping it as a bio, for whatever reason.

I think some additional admin eyes are needed, to guide the process. A history merge of the three (or at least the first two) might be appropriate. Guy (Help!) 10:47, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages noticeboards