Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 06:34, 19 November 2015

Religion Redirect‑class

This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Misplaced Pages's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion Redirect This redirect does not require a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

untitled comments

My anti-virus software blocks this site, http://www.askrsvarte.org/eng as a malicious site.--Heathenguy (talk) 23:37, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Then sorry, but your anti-virus software is incorrect. I can only suggest you report the link to the manufacturer of the software and ask them to look into it for you if you do not want to unblock it for obvious reasons. But it is legitimate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.188.112.2 (talk) 02:00, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

The site is in Russia and does set off malware alerts. If it is your site, why do you not move it or fix it, since anyone clicking on it in the West at least cannot read it since our anti-virus programs block it. --Heathenguy (talk) 21:11, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Then it is your settings that are incorrect, we don't need to chance anything. And it is in English too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.233.230.125 (talk) 04:34, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

History of name

This article states it was coined in 1848, however, it appears in 1840 in Heroes and Hero Worship by Thomas Carlyle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.188.112.100 (talk) 22:42, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

In 1822 now. Updated article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.188.112.100 (talk) 00:41, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Vandalism here

Enric Naval, thank you for correcting the vandalism of an anonymous editor. --ThorLives (talk) 21:13, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Peer review tool and comments on the contents of the article

I attempted to do a peer review using the peer review tool and received an error ( Missing page text on Odinism&lang=en) I thought its a protected page of sorts but when clicking the edit option I don't get a warning stating that its protected? I forgot how to check for that. I also just wanted to share my thoughts on the article contents. I came to this article curious to learn more about about this faith and maybe its me but I am not getting much from this or maybe it is that I just don't completely understand it. There are many sentences that appear to be a bit vague. Using terms like "may or may not" "seem to be" leave me with many questions regarding this topic. I wished this had more information about exactly what this faith consists of. There has got to be more to it than this. Any thoughts? Tattoodwaitress (talk) 01:37, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

RfC: Should this article become a redirect to Heathenry (new religious movement)?

Please consider joining the feedback request service. An editor has requested comments from other editors for this discussion. This page has been added to the following lists: Religion and philosophy History and geography When discussion has ended, remove this tag and it will be removed from the lists. If this page is on additional lists, they will be noted below.

Basic point: Should this article become a redirect that carries the reader directly to Heathenry (new religious movement)?

Wider explanation: This article is devoted to Odinism, which is a term that a minority of practitioners of the modern Pagan religion of Heathenry prefer to use in reference to their religion. As it stands, this article is in an absolutely terrible state. It consists almost entirely of material that is not-referenced, material that is cited to non-reliable, primary and self-published sources, and material on pre-Christian belief systems which are being used to bolster claims about this new religious movement. The latter has been placed there by practitioners of the religious movement in question, and reflects their own belief that the modern religion really is a direct continuation of the extinct belief system; this is not a position supported in the academic literature on either pre-Christian belief systems among the Germanic peoples or on the modern Pagan religion, and thus it is being used to simply un-critically promote an Odinist (or one Odinist's) view about their religion. Accordingly, all of this material absolutely has to be deleted.

As it stands, the vast majority of this article was written by User:ThorLives, and is currently being stubbornly defended from deletion by User:Holtj, who is engaging in Edit Warring in order to do so. ThorLives is currently the subject of a debated Topic Ban here as a result of their longstanding Disruptive Editing to Heathenry-themed articles, and there is also a Sock Puppet investigation here examining whether ThorLives and Holtj are one and the same individual. As User:Snowded pointed out over at Talk:Heathenry (new religious movement), ThorLives simply developed the Odinism article as a Coatrack to present the Heathen religion (to which they belonged) in a manner of their choosing; they did so after myself and other editors put a stop to their disruptive editing over at the Heathenry article itself. It was made abundantly clear to ThorLives in the discussions at that page that the quality of their contributions was sub-par and in contravention of Misplaced Pages's Reliable Sources policy, however they used exactly the same sources (and lack of them) when expanding the Odinism article too. Textbook disruptive editing.

It is undeniable that the improperly referenced material should be removed and that Holtj should desist from re-adding it in their desire to preserve ThorLives' (poor quality) contributions. However, if that is removed then there is basically nothing left of the article except a few passages that duplicate what is already said over at the Heathenry article. Given this, as well as the fact that "Odinism" is essentially a partial synonym for Heathenry, and indeed that the Odinism article was originally created as a redirect to start with, I believe that this article should be converted into a redirect to Heathenry (new religious movement). Midnightblueowl (talk) 23:39, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

CHECK THE EDITS OF THORLIVES. HE IS A PHD WHO LEFT WIKIPEDIA BECUASE OF THE ENDLESS ATTACKS OF THE PERSON ABOVE. --Holtj (talk) 06:34, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Keep - I came here via Legobot. You point out some worrying things, but I do think it should be separate from Heathenry though. I don't know about the other Norse heathenry pages. I have watchlisted it. DreamGuy (talk) 00:13, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

• For what reason do you believe that it should be kept separate, DreamGuy? Midnightblueowl (talk) 15:42, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Redirect per comments above. ----Snowded 05:35, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Redirect as nominator. Midnightblueowl (talk) 15:31, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

KEEP AS SEPARATE article. The Heathenry (new religious movement) needs a rewrite, however. As the talk page notes, Heathenry article is based on one book by Jennifer Snook. Her book calls female Norse pagans "overweight" and Valhalla "crap." --Holtj (talk) 22:03, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

I want to thank editors for the help here. One person has tried to blank this article. See article history. --Holtj (talk) 23:22, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Comment from an Odinist

Being an Odinist I appreciate the fact that some people, mainly those who do not know or understand the religion have an axe to grind. The Christians with their fading religion are quick to attack and various nefarious types are fond of trying to undermine a religion that, if left alone, is happy to return that favour. We have no interest in the bickering of the Abrahamics nor in their repeated attempts to dispute, denigrate or label us. Of course most of what is written is written by Odinists. Was not the Bible written by Christians? The Torah by Jews and the Koran etc by Muslims (at least in name) Which person here is so well versed in Odinism that they know more than those involved? Heathenry is not a religion. Heathenry is a blanket term used by those who would do well to educate themselves to cover a number of Pagan religions including Odinism. Apologies if this is not in the correct place. I do not usually add to these discussions. Editors please move to a more suitable location if required. - 94.15.207.69

I've moved your comment into its own separate section, 94.15.207.69, rather than have it clog up the above discussion. To answer some of your concerns, I should make it clear that Misplaced Pages relies on attaining its information from what it calls "Reliable Sources". For instance, we would use the writings of religious studies scholars, anthropologists, and historians who have studied the modern Heathen movement to bolster any claims that we make here at Misplaced Pages, rather than the self-published writings of various Heathen practitioners themselves. As I'm sure that you'll appreciate, practitioners often have very clear "insider" agendas: they sometimes believe that theirs is the one true faith, they often seek to propagate their faith to their readers, to present it in an overwhelmingly positive light, or they seek to denigrate different sects and denominations with whom they have disagreements. For instance, were a devout, non-academic Catholic to write a book on Christianity, we could expect it to proselytise, whitewash the faith, and come from a strong Catholic perspective that ignores the vast variation and divergence of belief and praxes that exists within the religion. The writings of the religious on their own religions are thus not always particularly reliable for our purposes. While academics (as human beings and sometimes as religious practitioners themselves) are not perfect either, we go by the rule that – given their proven expertise, their knowledge of scholarly standards, and the process of peer review that their publications receive – their writings are reliable in a way that insider publications aren't. Odinism and Heathenry aren't being singled out here; exactly the same rules would apply to articles on Christianity, Islam, or secular humanism. There is no special privilege given to any particular religion. Midnightblueowl (talk) 19:25, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

As pointed out in the Heathenry (New religious movement) talk page, the sources used for that page are written by pagan academics. Jennifer Snook, whose book is horrible, is an ex-witch who now associates with the Troth. The sources used on the Odinism page (48 books!), however, are diverse. --Holtj (talk) 00:19, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

This Article Uses About FORTY-EIGHT books, the Heathenry article really only uses FIVE.

The present article uses dozens of references; Heathenry (new religious movement) needs work. According to the heathenry talk page, virtually all citations there are drawn from one book by Jennifer Snook --Holtj (talk) 23:50, 17 November 2015 (UTC) --Holtj (talk) 00:01, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Absolute nonsense. This claim – made previously by User:ThorLives – has already been dismissed over at Talk:Heathenry (new religious movement). Any editor can go and check the history of that article for themselves. Moreover, Holtj should be well aware that it is not just about the number of references, but the quality of references, as specified in WP:Identifying reliable sources; the quality of the referencing that ThorLives and Holtj have used in this article on Odinism leaves much to be desired. Midnightblueowl (talk) 23:56, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Appalling Rhetoric in the Heathenry (New religious movement) Article

These are essentially ALL the references to Odinism in the Heathenry (new religious movement) article. To merge the Odinism article with this hate article would be an offense.

Many racialist-oriented Heathens prefer the terms Odinism or Wotanism to describe their religion.

There is thus a general view that all those who use Odinism adopt an explicitly political, right-wing and racialist interpretation of the religion

Some folkish Heathens are white supremacists and explicit racists, representing a "radical racist" faction that favours the terms "Odinism" and "Wotanism".

Kaplan stated that the "borderline separating racialist Odinism and National Socialism is exceedingly thin"

A variant of "Odinism" was developed by the Australian Alexander Rud Mills, who published The Odinist Religion (1930) and established the Anglican Church of Odin. Politically racialist, Mills viewed Odinism as a religion for the English race which was in a cosmic battle with Judeo-Christian religion.

profoundly different opinions concerning what Asatrú/Odinism is all about. The key divisive issues are centered on race and for whom the Nordic path is intended.

--Holtj (talk) 01:32, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

• Redirect-Class Religion pages
• NA-importance Religion pages
• WikiProject Religion articles
• Misplaced Pages requests for comment