Revision as of 11:39, 8 December 2015 view sourcePopcorntastesgood (talk | contribs)48 edits →Troll at Talk:November 2015 Paris attacks← Previous edit | Revision as of 12:10, 8 December 2015 view source Feminist (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers157,857 edits →User:STSC and WP:NOTHERE: new sectionNext edit → | ||
Line 821: | Line 821: | ||
:::::Yeah these are everywhere. Whenever a mass shooting/terrorist attack happens, there are immediately people posting videos and articles with fake photos and witnesses to claim it's all a government hoax. Trutherism seems to be a cottage industry guaranteed to make money off YouTube hits and Google hits because of the sheep who believe everything they read. Excuse me now, I'm going to go make an outraged video about how the World Series didn't happen and it's all a hoax. ]<sup>]</sup> 😜 11:26, 8 December 2015 (UTC) | :::::Yeah these are everywhere. Whenever a mass shooting/terrorist attack happens, there are immediately people posting videos and articles with fake photos and witnesses to claim it's all a government hoax. Trutherism seems to be a cottage industry guaranteed to make money off YouTube hits and Google hits because of the sheep who believe everything they read. Excuse me now, I'm going to go make an outraged video about how the World Series didn't happen and it's all a hoax. ]<sup>]</sup> 😜 11:26, 8 December 2015 (UTC) | ||
::::::<small>Maybe one about how that wasn't really ] winning the ] when he came back from his injury might do even better! - ] <sub><font color="maroon">]</font></sub> 11:31, 8 December 2015 (UTC)</small> | ::::::<small>Maybe one about how that wasn't really ] winning the ] when he came back from his injury might do even better! - ] <sub><font color="maroon">]</font></sub> 11:31, 8 December 2015 (UTC)</small> | ||
== User:STSC and ] == | |||
{{Userlinks|STSC}} is basically a pusher of the POV of the viewpoint of the government of the People's Republic of China. Almost every edit done by this user is misleading, with misleading edit summaries (such as using the edit summary "ce" while censoring negative information about the PRC government or other related topics, subtle changes to the text that affects the meanings, removal of sourced content, etc. As an example, what is ?) Really, almost every single edit by this user is problematic; search the archives for previous discussion about this user. This has been a long-term issue; editors have been frustrated with this user's refusal to discuss or cooperate, or even left because of this user. Often when other editors revert POV-pushing edits by STSC, STSC reports these users to ]. STSC has in the past, and has a history of blocks and topic bans. I think that an indef block may be appropriate in this situation. Pinging {{u|Citobun}}, {{u|Signedzzz}}, and {{u|Ohconfucius}}, who are more familiar with this editor than I am. ]<sup>]</sup> 12:10, 8 December 2015 (UTC) |
Revision as of 12:10, 8 December 2015
Noticeboards | |
---|---|
Misplaced Pages's centralized discussion, request, and help venues. For a listing of ongoing discussions and current requests, see the dashboard. For a related set of forums which do not function as noticeboards see formal review processes. | |
General | |
Articles, content | |
Page handling | |
User conduct | |
Other | |
Category:Misplaced Pages noticeboards |
This page is for urgent incidents or chronic, intractable behavioral problems.
- Before posting:
- Consider other means of dispute resolution first
- Read these tips for dealing with incivility
- If the issue concerns a specific user, try discussing it with them on their talk page
- If the issue concerns use of admin tools or other advanced permissions, request an administrative action review
- Just want an admin? Contact a recently active admin directly.
- Be brief and include diffs demonstrating the problem
- Do not report breaches of personal information on this highly visible page – instead go to Requests for oversight.
When starting a discussion about an editor, you must leave a notice on their talk page; pinging is not enough.
You may use {{subst:ANI-notice}} ~~~~
to do so.
Closed discussions are usually not archived for at least 24 hours. Routine matters might be archived more quickly; complex or controversial matters should remain longer. Sections inactive for 72 hours are archived automatically by Lowercase sigmabot III. Editors unable to edit here are sent to the /Non-autoconfirmed posts subpage. (archives, search)
Start a new discussion Centralized discussion- Refining the administrator elections process
- Blocks for promotional activity outside of mainspace
- Voluntary RfAs after resignation
- Proposed rewrite of WP:BITE
- LLM/chatbot comments in discussions
Administrators' (archives, search) | |||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
349 | 350 | 351 | 352 | 353 | 354 | 355 | 356 | 357 | 358 |
359 | 360 | 361 | 362 | 363 | 364 | 365 | 366 | 367 | 368 |
Incidents (archives, search) | |||||||||
1156 | 1157 | 1158 | 1159 | 1160 | 1161 | 1162 | 1163 | 1164 | 1165 |
1166 | 1167 | 1168 | 1169 | 1170 | 1171 | 1172 | 1173 | 1174 | 1175 |
Edit-warring/3RR (archives, search) | |||||||||
472 | 473 | 474 | 475 | 476 | 477 | 478 | 479 | 480 | 481 |
482 | 483 | 484 | 485 | 486 | 487 | 488 | 489 | 490 | 491 |
Arbitration enforcement (archives) | |||||||||
328 | 329 | 330 | 331 | 332 | 333 | 334 | 335 | 336 | 337 |
338 | 339 | 340 | 341 | 342 | 343 | 344 | 345 | 346 | 347 |
Other links | |||||||||
Allie X Topic Ban Proposal
As you can see in the closed ANI post, an admin already put page protections and closed the previous incident report on this page, but the people, (WordSeventeen (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and Zpeopleheart (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), involved are still refusing to discuss any of the issues on the CollXtion I and Allie X talk pages. This is obviously not an isolated incident, at least for WordSeventeen; they have been blocked for harassment before: ] They are repeatedly undoing edits like alternative covers on all the Catch (Allie X Song) page.dif here:] (for being "WP:UNDUE" even though that has nothing to do with this. Undue is for viewpoint is it not? Including such things offers no opinion on the material. WordSeventeen, I have had issues with in the past as well, with another ANI post detailing similar behavior. Cursory looking can show obvious signs of WP:DISRUPT, WP:HOUNDING, WP:VANDALISM, WP:POINT, WP:GAMING, WP:HUSH, and WP:IDHT. Even though they are obviously still on Misplaced Pages and making edits, they continue to ignore repeated attempts at discussion which is making a negative impact. Zpeopleheart and WordSeventeen have been disregarding established guidelines like WP:MUSBIO, picking it apart like their trying to to illustrate their tendentious view on MUSBIO. And since they are using tools like Twinkle, they seem to be committing WP:TWINKLEABUSE as well. After filing the premature arbitration request, instead of making comment there, they harassed me yet again on my talk page as well as WordSeventeen proceeding to propose deletion for the locked articles that are very much the same, if not improved articles, from when AfD was voted against before. His AfD was immediately declined ], see there, and yet he refiled , see here,], with the exact same AfD proposal statement. He has done this in the past before as well, and was told not to do so. He has been violating the same policies over and over for vast stretches of time, exemplified here ] and here ]. Why has he not be sanctioned? It's an obvious pattern in behavior. Pages that illustrate their refusal to co-operate:
- ]
- ]
- ]
- ]
- ]
- ] (Reviews of a person? There are no reviews of "her".)
- ]
- ]
It was suggested to me to pursue moderated dispute resolution, but one of the requirements on that page is that the topics must have been discussed thoroughly on the talk page; this does not meet that requirement because they are refusing to talk about anything. I really feel like a topic ban is the only thing that will make them stop. WordSeventeen's persistence over such a vast span of time is disturbing. It also appears Zpeopleheart is calling me a bitch ] WordSeventeen practically confessed to his improper behavior here as well : ] The administrator Beeblebrox (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) also comments on this review page's history "Not done. I'm quite certain that my motivation in asking about this was and is preventative. You have acted quite disruptively and dishonestly in the past. As you say, your record is right there to see, so you must have known..." So again, this seems very cut and dry that his conduct is wrong, and the amount of hurdles I have had to go through just to ameliorate such an obviously horrible situation is irritating. SanctuaryX (talk) 17:03, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment) SanctuaryX, after a cursory look, I've placed warnings on the two editors who have repeatedly "warned" you - regardless of who is at fault, it's pretty clear that their actions are verging on harassment samtar 17:19, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
- I notice that neither Zpeopleheart nor WordSeventeen have used the talk page at CollXtion I despite being prompted to by SanctuaryX clpo13(talk) 20:24, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
- I have prompted them on all the talk page articles CollXtion I, Allie X, and Catch (Allie X Song); Zpeopleheart only bothered to reply to the birth date question in Allie X after Karst began discussing it with me.SanctuaryX (talk) 23:10, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
- Why has he not been sanctioned? Because, generally speaking no matter how many times I'm accused of being a block-happy fanatic, we're generally quite hesitant to sanction people. When I locked the pages, I wasn't really suggesting arbitration - just engaging on the talk places, bringing in people through appropriate noticeboards, and then coming back to another board if, after the solution doesn't resolve itself in the time the article is protected, the disruptive parties will find themselves having a hard time editing Misplaced Pages. WP:DRN was suggested by someone else in the arb request, but I wouldn't even suggest going that far. I'll make a comment on a relevant talk page, but if this is still an issue f complete failure to engage when the protection wears off, the disruptive parties will find themselves the blocked parties. Also, wrote this before taking a full look at the diffs involved, which I'll now do and potentially take action on. Kevin Gorman (talk) 23:11, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
- Fixed that misquote; sorry. I never meant you were suggesting arbitration. I got ahead of myself.SanctuaryX (talk) 23:24, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
Topic-Ban for WordSeventeen
I propose a topic-ban from all articles related to Allie X for User:WordSeventeen. His or her campaign to delete the articles is disruptive and has aspects of an obsession. The singer is referenced by multiple reliable sources and passed an Articles for Deletion nomination six months ago. So now the editor has again opened another AFD, arguing WP:TOOSOON, when that argument was already considered and dismissed, and then opened yet another AFD (3d nomination) while the second nomination is still pending. That is disruptive editing having aspects of an obsession. I was uninvolved until an ill-advised Request for Arbitration was filed and is in the process of being closed, but it is clear from that evidence that WordSeventeen is being disruptive and should be topic-banned.
- Support as proposer. Do I need to move this to the bottom of ANI because no one will read it up here? Robert McClenon (talk) 00:09, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
Oppose Premature. If he doesn't figure out how to behave reasonably well in the next week, a tban will just send him in to another area of ENWP to be a problem. He has the next week to shape up. If he doesn't, well...I no longer oppose a topic ban or a WP:CIR or WP:TE block. Kevin Gorman (talk) 00:12, 22 November 2015 (UTC)\
- This behavior has been going on since May, intermittently albeit. SanctuaryX (talk) 00:14, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
- To clarify my oppose - what I really meant is if he keeps doing the same stuff until I block him for longer and longer periods of time, or he'll voluntarily get the point and stop being an issue (with, which the rather stern warning issued, is the hopeful outcome.) Tbanning him from Allie X will throw him in to being a problem in some other part of the encyclopedia; he needs to either get on board and fix the problem, or get tossed off the ship. Hopefully he'll get on board and be a genuinely productive editor even re: Allie, but if he doesn't, I have no problem personally tossing him overboard. Kevin Gorman (talk) 02:15, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
- Makes sense, but I would hope if he did just go making problems elsewhere instead of just whomever requesting a topic ban at the new place, they would just try to get him flat out banned after seeing his previous history. SanctuaryX 17:39, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
- It's slightly confusing that we use both 'block' and 'ban,' but I can indefinitely prevent him (block) from editing all articles by myself if he continues to be disruptive, unless another admin strongly disagrees. A ban is much harsher, more like a 'community endorsed indefinite block', requires more evidence of disruption, more discussion, etc. If he was tbanned from this area, I would either have to start following his behavior in another area to see if the disruption persists, or drop it (letting him potentially be equally disruptive in an area no one is paying attention to.) If he's not tbanned, I can just block him for increasingly long periods of time until he either gets the point or is unable to edit effectively permanently. Kevin Gorman (talk) 22:14, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
- That makes sense and either way sounds marvelous. Thanks for explaining. SanctuaryX 16:16, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
- It's slightly confusing that we use both 'block' and 'ban,' but I can indefinitely prevent him (block) from editing all articles by myself if he continues to be disruptive, unless another admin strongly disagrees. A ban is much harsher, more like a 'community endorsed indefinite block', requires more evidence of disruption, more discussion, etc. If he was tbanned from this area, I would either have to start following his behavior in another area to see if the disruption persists, or drop it (letting him potentially be equally disruptive in an area no one is paying attention to.) If he's not tbanned, I can just block him for increasingly long periods of time until he either gets the point or is unable to edit effectively permanently. Kevin Gorman (talk) 22:14, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
- Makes sense, but I would hope if he did just go making problems elsewhere instead of just whomever requesting a topic ban at the new place, they would just try to get him flat out banned after seeing his previous history. SanctuaryX 17:39, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
- To clarify my oppose - what I really meant is if he keeps doing the same stuff until I block him for longer and longer periods of time, or he'll voluntarily get the point and stop being an issue (with, which the rather stern warning issued, is the hopeful outcome.) Tbanning him from Allie X will throw him in to being a problem in some other part of the encyclopedia; he needs to either get on board and fix the problem, or get tossed off the ship. Hopefully he'll get on board and be a genuinely productive editor even re: Allie, but if he doesn't, I have no problem personally tossing him overboard. Kevin Gorman (talk) 02:15, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
- This behavior has been going on since May, intermittently albeit. SanctuaryX (talk) 00:14, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
- Support as initial complainant. It should be noted that Zpeopleheart clearly shares the same ideas, as per his reasoning for the delete vote in the AfD. He filed an ANI for edit warring and he was sanctioned himself ] SanctuaryX (talk) 00:14, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
- Support WordSeventeen has a history of harassment and hounding and it all seems to stem from him either not knowing when to stop or not wanting to stop: , , , . It should also be noted that with the last block for harassment, WS's permissions (rollback and reviewer) were revoked. From what I can see with this particular instance, a topic ban seems quite appropriate considering the circumstances (the proposer's note that WS seems to be "obsessed") as well as the user's history of disruption and inability to back off when advised to do so. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 00:58, 22 November 2015 (UTC). Arbitrary break
- Support – I have filed a checkuser on Zpeopleheart and WordSeventeen; I would be very surprised if they are different people. Oculi (talk) 22:26, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
- @Oculi:Thank you for doing this. I thought the fact they shared the same tendentious views was odd, but with everything going on I did not want to be the one to make such an accusation. SanctuaryX 00:04, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose You guys might want to check around and do a few searches or ask Bbb23. Been done. Some of you editors need to WP:DROPTHESTICK. Also any further accusations against me with diff or concrete proof will be personal attack. Happy thanksgiving. Zpeopleheart (talk) 16:09, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- Since you didn't notice, he made that request. We both noticed it didn't check out. Try to be civil. SanctuaryX 16:54, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
@Kevin Gorman: @Robert McClenon: I am on my phone so I can't easily tell, but someone has illicitly segregated WordSeventeen's response. I'll assume it was Zpeopleheart because he added a reply. This has messed up the voting for topic ban etc. Someone fix this please. SanctuaryX 16:40, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- It looks like Zpeopleheart attempted to highlight a couple of things WordSeventeen said, possibly to call for a topic ban on SanctuaryX. I restored the original flow of the voting and comments. clpo13(talk) 17:11, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- Support indef block due to the editor's pattern of trying to blank, redirect and/or frivolously AfD this article, and the obviously retaliatory topic ban proposal below. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 00:29, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
_
- Oppose and speedy close WordSeventeen (talk) 00:05, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- If anything, your removal of your own harassment from my talk page at the same time as this seems like a confession. SanctuaryX 23:02, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- And now, you're only furthering your ban because you can't even stay civil and neutral on the request for closure page.SanctuaryX 21:33, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- If anything, your removal of your own harassment from my talk page at the same time as this seems like a confession. SanctuaryX 23:02, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- Given the totality of the user's behavior, including their ridiculous warnings on SanctuaryX's talk page and behavior on Allie X related articles, I am blocking the editor for six months. This block is not meant to supercede the community discussion above, as the block will lift in six months while a topic ban wouldn't (and the block may be lifted before six months if the user convinces me or another administrator that their disruption is unlikely to continue.) Kevin Gorman (talk) 21:45, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Topic ban for SanctuaryX
There is no way that consensus is going to be established to tban SanctuaryX, and, if anything, the discussion below provides valuable feedback about appropriate action in this situation towards other actors involved. Kevin Gorman (talk) 21:39, 6 December 2015 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Thank you all, please have a wonderful American Thanksgivg. Zoe any other holiday you and your May celebrate. hoooooo RrrrrrrrrrAaaAaaHHHH. ---- peace to the world!!! WordSeventeen (talk) 10:15, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
|
Topic-Ban for Zpeopleheart
See everything in above two sections involving this editor and WordSeventeen for more detail on his obstinately disruptive behavior (WP:DISRUPT, WP:VANDALISM, WP:POINT, WP:GAMING, WP:HUSH, and WP:IDHT)in addition to the following dif's and associated edit comments: , , . Edit: And as you can see below, it's really quite impossible to show all the difs, much simpler just to look at history pages like this: and to look at my talk page where he is continuously "warning" me.
- Support as nominator. SanctuaryX 16:52, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- Comment umm not sure what you mean. Is this a new stick? or what? I just got back into town, been away for a while. So if you think I of all the in the a I above please provide the diffs and concrete proof from within the past 12 hours or so. Otherwise I will have to consider having you charged with a PERSONAL ATTACK. Did you not understand the rules and procedures here. Acting in good faith, I will give you one chance to apologize, we will call it a day, and I will leave all alone for a bit and let you work out your WP:OWNERSHIP issues. Have a great evening all! And remember I got 99 problems and this ain't no fun. Cannot we have peace on a holiday? A sort of detente. Peace Zpeopleheart (talk) 19:38, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- This isn't a personal attack. You clearly aren't doing what is asked by many people. I wasn't overly nice at first, but I have been civil since even with your repeated poor behavior. I'm not sure where the communication here is failing, but it's clear you have issues. I am clearly not experiencing ownership issues. I repeatedly tried to advise you of Misplaced Pages policies, I tried to explain to you why what you're referencing doesn't apply or isn't true, and I tried to discuss it with you, and you failed on all three counts. I have no problem with people editing the page, only when people like yourself constantly remove things that are perfectly acceptable not by my standards, but according to Misplaced Pages itself. For you to come here and try to silence me on the ANI just adds to my case. SanctuaryX 20:17, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- Comment: Editor is showing signs of being difficult/slightly disruptive, both here and on the article you've linked to. However, they above state that they will "leave all alone for a bit" - due to this I don't think a topic ban would be preventative anymore -- samtar 20:28, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- A bit is kind of vague; that could be minutes, hours, days, a week before they start being obstinate and tendentious again. SanctuaryX 20:33, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- I agree, it is vague - perhaps Zpeopleheart would agree to voluntarily leave the article alone for a set period of time, to allow people to chill out? -- samtar 20:37, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- I think I've been pretty calm, do I seem particularly obscene or uncivil? @Samtar: And as you can see now, that a bit didn't even last a day.SanctuaryX 21:00, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- I agree, it is vague - perhaps Zpeopleheart would agree to voluntarily leave the article alone for a set period of time, to allow people to chill out? -- samtar 20:37, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- A bit is kind of vague; that could be minutes, hours, days, a week before they start being obstinate and tendentious again. SanctuaryX 20:33, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- Comment: This isn't the first article Zpeopleheart has refused to actually discuss the changes they want to make. See the Black Lives Matter article history. They repeatedly reintroduced material that had serious issues (no citations, BLP claims, ect.) that was removed by multiple different editors. A talk page section was started after the second revert and they refused to participate. Refusing to participate in a collaborative project is a serious issue and the multiple articles they have done this on is a pattern of behavior. They claim to be dropping it and leaving it alone for a bit. However, the "for a bit" is what concerns me. Are they going to pick up right where they left off in a week after the holiday is over? There needs to be some assurances that this is going to stop and they are going to start participating in the discussions that people are asking them to participate in. --Stabila711 (talk) 20:40, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- And if you search through the above sections, you'll see he has been sanctioned for edit warring before as well. SanctuaryX 20:47, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose Nothing more to say here. Zpeopleheart (talk) 22:28, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
- Support - clearly disruptive editing, repeatedly reverting to maintain their preferred version of an article, and failing to make any reasonable effort to discuss their issues on the talk page despite being pinged repeatedly. Multiple editors have tried to reason with this editor both to understand their weird view of neutrality, to ask them to expand on their rationale or provide any sources at all for their insistence that the subject must be viewed negatively or not at all, and to try to explain why this behaviour is disruptive including a fairly dire warning the last time this page was full-protected to prevent the same disruption they're continuing with right now. Competence is required; consensus is not optional. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 00:25, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
- Support: After posting my comment above, Zpeopleheart has continued to try to push their own view on Allie X. They also posted a false warning on SanctuaryX's talk page claiming that they filed a bad AIV report when SanctuaryX has not even posted to that page at all according to their recent contributions . Their abuse of Twinkle to add pointless and false warnings to other editor's talk pages is purely retaliatory and needs to stop. --Stabila711 (talk) 00:48, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
- Support per nom, Ivanvector, and Stabila711. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 00:58, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
- Support per nom. The 2 apparently different editors Zpeopleheart and WordSeventeen share an obsession with Allie X. WordSeventeen has taken it to afd twice (both snow keeps) and Zpeopleheart redirected it to Catch (Allie X song). Between them they have made 63 edits to Allie X, most of which are against the consensus at the article (ie all other editors there disagree with Z and W). Oculi (talk) 12:11, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note - Zpeopleheart has been blocked 36 hours for continuing to disrupt the Allie X article. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 15:20, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
- Unarchived per request. Cunard (talk) 21:09, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- Given the totality of the user's behavior, including their ridiculous warnings on SanctuaryX's talk page and behavior on Allie X related articles, I am blocking the editor for six months. This block is not meant to supercede the community discussion above, as the block will lift in six months while a topic ban wouldn't (and the block may be lifted before six months if the user convinces me or another administrator that their disruption is unlikely to continue.) Kevin Gorman (talk) 21:48, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Der Statistiker and Paris-based articles.
New Development
This has just taken on an entire new dimension. Outright canvassing forum members to target several Misplaced Pages contributors specifically.
- English link: - Original French: - targeting 3 Wikipedians, posted on the 30/11/2015
- English link: - Original French: - mentioning just one (yours truly), posted on the 30/11/2015
I got there by:
- looking for sources for unsourced numbers that Der Statistiker and Minato ku had insisted were the 'right' ones (without providing sources)
- that turned up only two Google results:
- A post by Minato ku on the aforementioned skyscrapercity.com forum, citing (banned, but member since 2006) forum member "Brisavoine" (fr)
- But more importantly, a post (most likely the one cited) by "New Brisavoine", member since 2007, on the forum.skyscraperpage.com forum (en)
- So, in the forum.skyscraperpage.com forum, reading a few pages ahead from the 'numbers' post, it seems that Brisavoine "knows" the London French correspondant for the French newspaper "Le Monde" - funny, the same one that interviewed Der Statistiker and I last year?
- And those maps look really familiar, just like the one Der Statistiker uploaded to Misplaced Pages (the one to the right), especially the oldest version
- So a google image search for that ...
- ...turns up yet another forum, pss-archi.eu, where forum member "Brisa" had posted it
- And a google search for "wikipedia" and "paris" in that website ...
- ...turns up, right at the top of the list, our targeted-canvassing post; it had been removed (why is in the post itself), but Google still had a cached version.
And, since it's relevent once again, the link to the canvassing from last year's meat-debacle (fr) (en - gt): Brisavoine was probably already banned then, which is why it could never be proven that User:Der Statistiker was a member there.
What gets me most was the craftiness of hiding the targeted Wikipedians' names through posting their names in image... and how even those other forum members were lied to and WP:GAMEd to get them to help disrupt Paris articles.
Cheers, and sorry for the mess. THEPROMENADER ✎ ✓ 19:55, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
Concerned and Canvassed Contributors
I'm putting these here because they are related to this case (not part of it, this is only about Der Statistiker) and are still registered wikipedians here. It is up to whoever decides here to decide to decide what they want to decide if they find the evidence acceptable. Apologies for the links, but it seems that skyscrapercity(dot)com has been blacklisted, so I can't post them directly, or the translated version - please use google translate (just paste the corrected url into the 'French' input field)
First off, perhaps it's useful to mention now that Der Statistiker is Hardouin, which sets this canvassing (and other bad behaviour) much farther back, but, in addition to the same trying to publish the same WP:OR and same 'tactical' disruptive behaviour, one tie-in (I can provide more) related to the above evidence:
- Minato ku's first 'backup' appearance on the 2007-07-20 when Statistiker (Hardouin) was creating/publishing WP:OR for which he could not provide references (but was trying to preserve by reverting/edit warring all the same) :
- then Brisavoine (Statistiker) mentioning me in a skyscrapercity forum conversation with Minato ku on the September 22nd, 2007 : www.skyscrapercity(dot)com/showthread.php?t=284568&page=8#149.
www.skyscrapercity(dot)com/showthread.php?t=385785&page=149#2962
In the link above, the canvassed contributors in the skyscrapercity forum thread (being instructed by Minato ku where to go and how to edit Misplaced Pages); they were:
- Minato ku (who has made a few wikipedia edits between his 2007 first appearance until 2011, but returned in 2013 directly to the vote debacle, and has been 'backing up' Statistiker ever since ) - edit-warring & voting
- Sesto Elemento (most likely also Sesto92 - ) - edit-warring & voting
- Clouchicloucha - voter only
- Abdel-31 - voter only
- AvemanoBZH - voter only
These are the votes they were called to:
If anyone has any further questions or would like any further evidence, please feel free to ask. THEPROMENADER ✎ ✓ 12:20, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Original ANI
Der Statistiker (and his www.skyscrapercity.com allies ) has, in all impunity to date, been disrupting editing to Paris-based articles since years now, and this is I-don't-know-how-many-th'd case opened against him , and many contributors, including administrator jmabel, expressed overwhelming support for a topic ban over a year ago .
Der Statistiker is particularly good at WP:GAMEing Misplaced Pages. Misplaced Pages's default 'assume good faith' is easy to abuse: for one example, he repeatedly creates false claims that look plausible on the surface so that, if an administrator takes only a quick look, they will seem legitimate. He then directs complaints to precisely those administrators who have taken his claims at face value in the past . Concerning that last diff/complaint: I made my first real edits to the article (and I had announced my intentions on the talk-page well before) in a year on November 11 , and Der Statistiker, after a total absence of a year from the article, came a week after .
But that in itself was not really a problem at that point, until Der Statistiker replaced recently-edited (by SiefkinDR) article-relevent data with out-of-context data , and I edited that back into context (without removing anything): Der Statistiker reverted this with another false accusation (calling it 'starting a revert war') and, again, threatening admin intervention . Again there was no rationale for this, even after SiefkinDR's protesting questioning , only an 'answer-sounding' non-sequitur...
...because the rationale for that, and everything from there on, was pure WP:POINT disruption: one of the skyscraper-forum members (who by now has been around long enough to be considered a real wikipedian), Minato ku first edit on wikipedia in months is to remove a just-edited Paris-events paragraph , and the same day, reverts a just-edited entire section to a state last edited by Der Statistiker over a year before (under the edit summary 'reorganising'), and Der Statistiker's response to this was only to update Minato ku's outdated revert himself, and, even after voiced opposition, re-insert the removed content under a misleading edit summary . The entire 'what happened' is on the Paris talk page. Der Statistiker and Minato ku have worked as a 'team' since around 2007, as made obvious in the Economy of Paris article (the scene of his 'bigger than thou' battles with other big-city articles) and talk page.
While writing this, yet another skyscrapercity.com-er, Clouchicloucha, just showed up to 'vote support' Der Statistiker and Minato ku.
This is only the tip of the iceberg, but I can provide more data if it is needed. Please do check up on my record, and any questions are welcome. THEPROMENADER ✎ ✓ 21:04, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- I agree completely with Promenader. Der Statistiker has a very long history of problematic behaviour surrounding the Paris article. I still remember his trolling comments when I promoted the article to GA, disgusting. He has shown time and time again he canvasses support from offwiki as evidenced by the recent Clouch "support", gaming the system. Based on what Jmabel told him before I strongly suggest we topic ban this editor from Paris articles.♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:12, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- Sigh... Here the only person I see contacting people off-wiki is ThePromenader, who, in the admission of Jmabel himself, contacted Jmabel last week (see ), despite the fact that there is no trace of any message by ThePromenader in Jmabel's talk page history (). So we have an obvious case of off-wiki contact there, from someone who accuses other editors of "gaming" the system. And I suspect User:Clouchicloucha is an account created by ThePromenader himself to discredit me by writing what looks like awkward messages of support in the talk page right in time for ThePromenader to open his complaint against me here. Like how timely and convenient! Der Statistiker (talk) 22:06, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, I did contact Jmabel off-wiki (an admin here, by the way, not an off-wiki forum member), for advice and to intervene, which he did, and he said as much . The only difference is that now he doesn't have his talk-page full of complaints.
- The User:Clouchicloucha accusation is just lame. Both Der Statistiker and Minato ku know full well who they are. THEPROMENADER ✎ ✓ 22:50, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- I see nothing wrong with a user asking me (or anyone else) off-wiki to take a look at what's going on with an article and my openly indicating that I did so. If you think something about this was inappropriate, please say precisely what it was. If you don't, then stop making insinuations. - Jmabel | Talk 00:18, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
- Sigh... Here the only person I see contacting people off-wiki is ThePromenader, who, in the admission of Jmabel himself, contacted Jmabel last week (see ), despite the fact that there is no trace of any message by ThePromenader in Jmabel's talk page history (). So we have an obvious case of off-wiki contact there, from someone who accuses other editors of "gaming" the system. And I suspect User:Clouchicloucha is an account created by ThePromenader himself to discredit me by writing what looks like awkward messages of support in the talk page right in time for ThePromenader to open his complaint against me here. Like how timely and convenient! Der Statistiker (talk) 22:06, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Again!! The problem came from a badly written transportation section full of errors that did not bother anybody until I changed it to put more information (accurate information). I think this bothers ThePromenader because it does not follow the plan he wants. In his few edits of the transportation section prior to my edit he kept the numerous errors that were there. Does he really care about the quality and accuracy of the information in the Paris article?
I don't understand why this change of the transportation section has created such noise. No content was deleted; quite the opposite, information was added.
I don't get the war between Der Statistiker and ThePromenader and I'm tired of being used as a pretext for this war (find another scapegoat). I want a good wikipedia article about Paris at the level of New York City article. Nowadays Paris article is more like a tourist guide focused on history (more like the history of anecdotal events rather than a history of the development of the city) and stereotypes. You just need to compare Paris' article with London's article to see this problem. The quality of the information in the Paris article should be the goal of everybody rather than this stupid war of ego. Minato ku (talk) 22:13, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- For both comments above, I'll let the Paris talk page speak for itself. THEPROMENADER ✎ ✓ 22:50, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- But about the 'scapegoat' issue: the article quality concerns you mention here is what the article talk page is for. If you see a problem, open a discussion, and you may find people even helping you. You and Statistiker have overlapping goals (showing Paris as the most modern, etc., city possible), but his example of "impose X (in total disregard for other contributors); use 'tactics' to make it stick" is an extremely bad one to follow; Misplaced Pages is a collaborative project based on cooperative reasoning, not 'tag-team tactics' (against (an)other contributor(s)), so if you're going to 'team up' with the latter, it's going to turn around to bite you in the end. THEPROMENADER ✎ ✓ 06:26, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Proposal to topic ban Der Statistiker from Paris-related articles
As per above, there has been clear evidence that Der Statistiker is gaming the system and causing disruption of a large scale with Paris-related articles. ThePromenader has already supplied the diffs above and previous evidence as well as another proposal to topic ban Der Statistiker from Paris-related articles last year. The evidence is overwhelming and the disruption caused seems to go at no end. He has also been cautioned about meatpuppetry and despite the warnings, he is clearly doing it again. I propose that Der Statistiker be topic banned indefinitely (provisionally) from Paris-related articles, although it might be more suitable if an admin determines the length. JAGUAR 14:57, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
- Support Long time coming, should have been topic banned last time. I'd suggest a permanent ban as he has a habit of returning after a year or two and causing trouble.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:11, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
- Support. There has been too much disruption at the Paris article and several editors have been forced away because of the behaviours exhibited there; this needs to end. - SchroCat (talk) 16:27, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
- Support. The foremost challenge when editing Paris articles should be article quality, not Der Statistiker. This has gone on for too many years already. THEPROMENADER ✎ ✓ 18:01, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
- Support. I reviewed and promoted the article for GA and was dismayed at what happened to it thereafter. Der Statistker's repeated interventions seemed to me to go beyond what was reasonable and collegiate as we understand it in Misplaced Pages. I hope we can eventually rescue the article and restore it to GA standards. Tim riley talk 21:31, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
The is no "clear evidence". There is insinuations from always the same user, ThePromenader, who apparently thinks the more something is repeated the more people will believe it. It reminds me a lot of Saddam and weapons of mass destructions in 2003. None of the diffs above prove anything. This wouldn't stand a chance in a regular court of justice.
As for "disruption", here the one who creates the most troubles in this article is ThePromenader, as is obvious with repeated complaints on this noticeboard despite the fact that User:Future Perfect at Sunrise asked all editors from the Paris article to stop doing so, and with ThePromenader's aggressive behavior in the Paris talk page and the history of the Paris article (for example here accusing another editor of "POV creep", or here rewriting Minato ku's edit from just a few hours before, and in the process introducing various errors such as a dot after "daily" instead of a comma, or repeating "257 stops and 587 km (365 mi) of rails" twice in the same sentence; isn't that the very definition of disruption?). Der Statistiker (talk) 18:24, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
- Thank you for pointing that out, fixed. THEPROMENADER ✎ ✓ 18:53, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose I don't see what Der Statisker has done wrong. He is bringing useful information in the article. I find rather funny to see ThePromenader saying Der Statistiker is disrupting the article because since I am a member here I found ThePromenader much more of a problem in this article concerning the quality of the article's content. Also I find strange that SchroCat and Dr. Blofeld suddenly found this complaint here that is not mentioned anywhere in the talk page of Paris. Minato ku (talk) 19:10, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
- Support The evidence is clear, and this has been going on far too long. A waste of everyone's time. Aymatth2 (talk) 19:17, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
- Comment: While there's certainly disruption here that may be in need of admin intervention, I'm not convinced a unilateral ban of Der Statistiker is the right way to go. Last year when I intervened as an admin in this conflict, my impression was clearly that of an it-takes-two-to-tango situation: There are two parties with equally strong POV perspectives, Statistiker and Promenader, who are both backed up by their respective tag teams, are both equally allergic to each other's presence, and both probably suffer from "m:Megalomaniacal point of view" to an equal extent, insofar as they both seem quite unable to realize that their own POV is just that, a point of view like others. The article was quiet for a year as long as both of them were away, it exploded again within a matter of days as soon as the two of them were back. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:18, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Again, that is what it may look like on the surface (according to statistiker's complaints to you), but, if you look further, namely at the diffs I provided above concerning the complaint to you (and everything else, for that matter), that's not the case. I don't see where the POV accusation comes from, nor the 'tag-team' one: just because article contributors find themselves having to deal with statistiker's behaviour doesn't make them a 'team' pushing a POV. And even then, it was article contributors opposing one contributor and others summoned off-wiki... I don't see how it is possible to overlook that. When this happened two years ago, I only became aware of it after it was already in full swing, so I'm hardly any 'ringleader' in this. THEPROMENADER ✎ ✓ 15:22, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- This is repetition, but concerning 'just me', statistiker had been gone over a year when I announced that I was available for editing (and would be editing soon) just to be sure, and it was another month before I made my first edit to the article . Statistiker showed up one week later , and for everything after that, I refer to you to the Paris talk page. THEPROMENADER ✎ ✓ 15:41, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Support:Der Statistiker has consistently been rude, sarcastic and aggressive, attacking and insulting any editor who disagrees with him. He makes it very hard to work on this article. SiefkinDR (talk) 17:06, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Oppose. The biggest disruption on Paris has come from Promenader. If anyone is to be topic banned it is he. It certainly does not help when his friends dr blo and schrocat add to the disruption. Their POV pushing has been going on forever at Paris. Caden 18:52, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Do you have any evidence of that, then? JAGUAR 20:13, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- All editors who have had long-time involvement in either of the tag-teams mentioned, as well as their habitual wikifriends and wikifoes, need to lay off this discussion; their !votes here are unhelpful and unwelcome. (Caden, that certainly applies to you just as much as anybody, given your long-standing feuds with Blofield and friends.) Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:50, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Do you have any evidence of that, then? JAGUAR 20:13, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Support. The evidence of off-wiki recruiting for meatpuppets to aid in an edit war is clear and damning. No opinion whether ThePromenador is also behaving problematically, since it isn't important to this case: two wrongs don't make a right. —David Eppstein (talk) 05:14, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- Reluctantly support. I think Der Statistiker has good content to bring to this, but in practice he doesn't seem to have worked out a way to work on the articles cooperatively. I'm sure he will be able to make solid contributions elsewhere, in articles with people with whom he gets on better. At the same time, I'd recommend to the others working on the article that they think long and hard about the general issues he's raised, and how the article might better address these concerns (especially that it shorts Paris as a present-day city). - Jmabel | Talk 06:31, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Note to the admins
ThePromenader already asked for my topic-ban from the Paris-related article () but his request was suspended by admin Future Perfect at Sunrise who set the following rule:
- " from this moment on, the talkpage of the Paris article (as well as all related discussions elsewhere, edit summaries etc.) are under a strict, no-exceptions, "comment on content, not on contributor" rule. You can all continue to discuss what content should be in the Paris article, but until further notice, no contributor with a prior significant involvement on the Paris discussions is allowed, in any context, to engage in any negative remarks about any of the others. This includes, in addition to the usual forms of incivility and personal attacks: any complaints or accusations of wrongdoing, speculations about the other person's motivations or POV agendas, reminders about (real or alleged) past misbehaviour or allusions to such, talk about somebody's behaviour off-wiki, ad-hominem arguments about somebody's lack of qualifications or of editing merits, "tu-quoque"-types of responses to accusations from others. Anybody who engages in any such behaviour, on either side, will be blocked, immediately, without further warning, for substantial periods of time."
After nearly a year without editing the Paris article (in a large measure due precisely to previous witch-hunting by ThePromenader, which doesn't really induce people to spend time to work on this or other articles... I note that the French editors who used to work on that article are all gone now), I finally made my first edit in almost a year in this article on November 19, 2015 (). Almost immediately, and despite the fact that I had had no contact or interaction with ThePromenader in almost a year, ThePromenader:
- a- accused me of "POV creep" ()
- b- then opened this new complaint against me with for the most part with the same old recycled paranoid and unsubstantiated stuff as last year
If words have a meaning, a- and b- both breach the rule set by Future Perfect at Sunrise for this article. I find it unfair that I have to defend myself against someone who breaches rules and harasses me within 24 hours of my 1st edit to this article in a year. Der Statistiker (talk) 22:33, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
- If your first edits to an article since a year are confrontational , there's already a problem, and some sort of (not 'harassment', push back ) reaction is only to be expected, don't you think? THEPROMENADER ✎ ✓ 21:20, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- Der Statistiker has been bringing out this one-time 'ruling' every time his behaviour is questioned since... a year now, and seems to think that it's an excuse to act in all impunity (because people aren't 'allowed' to complain about his behaviour). A look at the Paris talk page will show this clearly enough, but I can provide diffs if needed. THEPROMENADER ✎ ✓ 22:59, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
- Again, distorted presentation of facts... I haven't made a single edit in the Paris (or Paris-related) article between November 30, 2014 () and November 19, 2015 (), i.e. almost an entire year. Yet you somehow imply that during this one year when I have not been editing the article my "behavior" has been "questioned" and I have brought out this rule "every time"... in a year when I haven't even edited this article. Like... right. Der Statistiker (talk) 23:23, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
- Thus the '...' in my reply. Before, after, here, like a day never passed inbetween. Shall I provide examples? THEPROMENADER ✎ ✓ 17:15, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- Again, distorted presentation of facts... I haven't made a single edit in the Paris (or Paris-related) article between November 30, 2014 () and November 19, 2015 (), i.e. almost an entire year. Yet you somehow imply that during this one year when I have not been editing the article my "behavior" has been "questioned" and I have brought out this rule "every time"... in a year when I haven't even edited this article. Like... right. Der Statistiker (talk) 23:23, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
- Looks to me like it's high time for an interaction ban. It's pretty clear that these two editors will argue forever. —Steve Summit (talk) 21:29, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- Not like before. I actually regret leaving my last comment, there was no need to. THEPROMENADER ✎ ✓ 21:45, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
Steve Summit, I have no opinion about whether an interaction ban is a good idea or not, as that decision belongs entirely to the admins, but I think if an interaction ban is decided, it should also include User:SiefkinDR as per for example the case that I've detailed here on Future Perfect at Sunrise's talk page: Usertalk:Future Perfect at Sunrise#Your opinion on this. An interaction ban limited only to ThePromenader and myself would fail to achieve the goal of pacifying this article I think. Der Statistiker (talk) 23:23, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- This has no place here - one cannot use admin attention to an inquiry into one's own behaviour to try to 'enforce' a personal vendetta against another contributor - but it is a perfect demonstration of the aforementioned WP:GAMEing. THEPROMENADER ✎ ✓ 05:58, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
Note to the admins: ThePromenader is now moving around comments from other editors in the talk page and deciding where they should stand inside the talk page: . Der Statistiker (talk) 17:58, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
Also of note for the admins: in the Paris talk page, SiefkinDR claims that he rewrote the section about the Greater Paris Metropolis that I had written and created only 3 days before because "it lacked specifics about the area, population, and competences of the Metropole." () The diff of my edit from 3 days before shows that this section in fact DID contain the area and population of the Metropolis (), contrary to what SiefkinDR is claiming. This is an example of what I'm confronted with in this article. Der Statistiker (talk) 18:14, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
New attacks against editors
- I hope the administrators are aware of the posts that were made at the end of November on two French urban planning sites, urging members to come into Misplaced Pages to support Der Statistiker and specifically to attack me, Promenader and Blofeld. The attacks on me, by name, and the other editors are quite personal and insulting. This kind of behavior is unfortunately typical. Der Statistker has to stop using articles on Paris to promote has personal agenda. See the posts below.
- English link: - Original French:
I hope administrators will act to stop this kind of behavior. SiefkinDR (talk) 09:13, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- I'm wondering why this isn't getting any attention at all - it's been six days since this was opened. I have to keep making silly comments just to keep it from being archived. THEPROMENADER ✎ ✓ 17:52, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- @Jmabel and Jeppiz:: since you have been concerned in/submitted past same-subject ANI-cases , your input would be of value here, thanks. THEPROMENADER ✎ ✓ 14:11, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
That link constitutes pretty shameless stealth canvassing, including naming individual editors to oppose, and asking for the notice to be removed before anyone here sees it. I don't have a stake in nor overview of the Paris issue, but this is not acceptable behaviour.-- Elmidae 07:39, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- Do we know the person on those external fora is Statistiker? So far the only thing that seems clear is that it's somebody who's friends with Minato Ku. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:59, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- If you did look it over, please go through it again. There are so many overlaps that it's just not not possible, and that's even without considering the WP:DUCK aspects of it all. And the silence reigning speaks volumes, too. THEPROMENADER ✎ ✓ 15:59, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
178.217.194.100
178.217.194.100 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) has, over the last few weeks, been trying to add a huge table about birth rates by the country of birth of the mother and father in England and Wales. When reverted at Demography of England, the IP posted it at Demography of the United Kingdom, then when reverted there at Foreign-born population of the United Kingdom, and now Ethnic groups in the United Kingdom, despite warnings not to continue doing so. Seeing their latest edit, I thought that I would see what they have been adding to articles on other countries. I found this addition to Demographics of France, including the text: "If French people (whites) didn't wake up they will be minority in their own country, and they arleady lost Paris". Is it time to block? Cordless Larry (talk) 08:08, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Following my revert, the IP has restored the unsourced commentary less the racist postscript. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:33, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- And I have removed and deleted it as a copyvio of http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2014/04/race-in-france-a-sketch-based-on-first-and-second-generation-immigrants/. They began editing in June with gnoming table edits on demography, they appear to be an experienced editor. Their recent commentary noted above reveals a disturbing motive for their editing, it may be time to block if they won't properly engage in discussion. Fences&Windows 08:54, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Some of the user's edits can cause improvements, as the information added to demographics of the UK was then turned into prose by myself. The problem is that they have never engaged in discussion or edit summaries and most of the edits miss the mark on the style of Misplaced Pages (i.e. overloaded tables). The scale of articles with such tables added is staggering and I'm amazed this has gone on for so long without being picked up. Maybe a block will force the user into discussion... Jolly Ω Janner 09:06, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Abstracting out the content issue, there's an interesting question regarding tables and data, especially tables which collate readily accessible (and verifiable) information, possibly from multiple sources, but which don't fit well, stylistically. Is there a place to put big data tables? Wikidata seems to be the wrong place, but articles do suffer from large tables. Argyriou (talk) 20:18, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- It's worth saying that excessive lists of statistics are discouraged by WP:NOTSTATSBOOK. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:35, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Abstracting out the content issue, there's an interesting question regarding tables and data, especially tables which collate readily accessible (and verifiable) information, possibly from multiple sources, but which don't fit well, stylistically. Is there a place to put big data tables? Wikidata seems to be the wrong place, but articles do suffer from large tables. Argyriou (talk) 20:18, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Some of the user's edits can cause improvements, as the information added to demographics of the UK was then turned into prose by myself. The problem is that they have never engaged in discussion or edit summaries and most of the edits miss the mark on the style of Misplaced Pages (i.e. overloaded tables). The scale of articles with such tables added is staggering and I'm amazed this has gone on for so long without being picked up. Maybe a block will force the user into discussion... Jolly Ω Janner 09:06, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- And I have removed and deleted it as a copyvio of http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2014/04/race-in-france-a-sketch-based-on-first-and-second-generation-immigrants/. They began editing in June with gnoming table edits on demography, they appear to be an experienced editor. Their recent commentary noted above reveals a disturbing motive for their editing, it may be time to block if they won't properly engage in discussion. Fences&Windows 08:54, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
A reply from 178.217.194.100: "My mistake, I'm sorry for that. It won't happen again. I'm still learning what is acceptable. I like French people and I want to help not hurt anyone. Notice that I help in editing many pages about demography in many countries". Cordless Larry (talk) 22:07, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- I am trying to get 178.217.194.100 to understand how to use decimal points, but I'm not getting a response and they continue to use commas for this purpose. Any suggestions? Cordless Larry (talk) 17:48, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- You could try reverting a few of the edits, since that's normally when the user is prompted to engage in discussion. It's rare that any of the edits are worthy of inclusion anyway. Another alternative would be to follow the user's every edit and cleanup after them, but this is very time consuming and perhaps a waste of time since these tables are barely worthy of inclusion (I certainly don't want to volunteer!). Doesn't look like the topic is attracting much help from admins, sadly. Jolly Ω Janner 21:08, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- Despite a further reminder yesterday, this has continued this morning. Cordless Larry (talk) 12:17, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- I reverted that edit as suggested, Jolly Janner, but 178.217.194.100 just reinstated it. Cordless Larry (talk) 17:18, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Despite a further reminder yesterday, this has continued this morning. Cordless Larry (talk) 12:17, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- You could try reverting a few of the edits, since that's normally when the user is prompted to engage in discussion. It's rare that any of the edits are worthy of inclusion anyway. Another alternative would be to follow the user's every edit and cleanup after them, but this is very time consuming and perhaps a waste of time since these tables are barely worthy of inclusion (I certainly don't want to volunteer!). Doesn't look like the topic is attracting much help from admins, sadly. Jolly Ω Janner 21:08, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- 178.217.192.79 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) appears to be previous IP for this user. The edits with this IP address go back to December 2014 with the exact same edits. This user has shown the ability to read and write in English and engage in discussion with us. I don't think the user will ever listen to our construction criticisms. Jolly Ω Janner 20:54, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Politically partisan disruption of Proportional representation
- BalCoder (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Ontario Teacher BFA BEd (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Proportional representation (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Since Aug.16 a new user, Ontario Teacher BFA BEd, has been disrupting the proportional representation (PR) article for politically partisan reasons. He displays all WP:DISRUPTSIGNS except cite-tagging. He is WP:NOTHERE to improve WP but to help the Conservative Party of Canada (CPC). I am the only person protecting the PR article, I don't see a way out except to get the user blocked, so I come back to WP:ANI.
Story so far: I have tried talk page discussion, WP:BRD, not reverting to encourage cooperation, a WP:ANI incident to block him which attracted no admin response, a request for help at WP:WikiProject Politics which also brought no response (it appears to be moribund). The article has twice been protected to encourage cooperation. After the ANI failure my only recourse was reverting but we were both blocked once for edit warring. Others encouraged me to try WP:DRN, which I did twice, here and here, both attempts failing because Ontario, although agreeing to both mediations, failed to cooperate.
Political bias: Apart from PR, almost all Ontario's edits have concerned Canadian politics, obviously in connection with the Oct.19th Canadian federal election, and obviously in support of the Conservative Party of Canada (e.g.here, here, here). In the PR article he puffs FPTP and diminishes the various PR systems, particularly MMP. MMP is the official policy of the New Democratic Party, and reform of the electoral system to a more proportional one is a policy of the new Liberal government. The CPC wants to retain FPTP. Ontario has also misleadingly changed a number of other electoral system articles with crude copy/paste from the PR article, as well as a template:
- Mixed-member proportional representation (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Semi-proportional representation (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Plurality voting system (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Voting system (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Closed list (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Open list (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Template:Electoral systems (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
The basic dispute: Ontario insists that mixed member proportional representation (MMP) is not PR but "mixed", and has mutilated the article's structure in consequence. MMP is both mixed and proportional, as its name implies. That it is "usually considered PR", as the lead says, is uncontentious, has unimpeachable sources, and has not been challenged since being introduced on Dec.11, 2014 (diff) (in those eleven months, though the article receives ca.1000 hits/day, the only changes to the MMP section have been some commas and the words "Scotland and Wales".) Although I have referred him seven times to these sources, and they were the subject of both DRN incidents, he has yet to justify his removal of the statement. He allows only that MMP is semi-proportional for which he produces thirteen (!) sources, none of which supports his contention. His only arguments are some specific MMP elections which did not produce proportional results, one of which, Hungary, is already mentioned in the article as an example of gerrymandering.
- Tendentious
- Ontario's edits are determinedly anti-PR and pro-FPTP, and sources are bent to this end. Not only concerning MMP, but also party list PR (e.g.that open and closed systems do not use districts, a nonsense - he uses the word "zone" rather than "district" as an evasion), and, since Nov.5, he has removed sourced statements about STV in the article lead that were the result of a consensus (here) presumably what the comment "removed/moved redundant or superfluous sentences" refers to.
- His Talk posts are wilfully misleading. His most recent post is typical, a whole paragraph about an uncontentious classification of electoral systems; the actual problem, that MMP is nonetheless proportional, is not mentioned. He adds: "I have, in good faith, retained all of your minor edits...": as far as I can see he has retained one, a positive (for him) change in emphasis at the beginning of the section "Link between constituent and representative", but removed all other changes, for e.g.that some researchers question the importance of this link, and the sources for that. Another example is this post to user Reallavergne: none of his claims in it is correct.
- He repeatedly protests that his edits are mostly minor edits (he doesnt' t grasp WP:MINOR), spelling & grammar (there was one spelling error, I think), layout errors (presumably the mangling of the article's structure) or formatting that doesn't change the meaning (the table in "PR systems in the broader family of voting systems", probably a WP:COPYVIO), implying I am unreasonably reverting trivial changes. But this is deception: his changes are not at all trivial, and his revised structure (sections "Party list PR" and "Mixed electoral systems") is chaotic. User:Reallavergne, invited by Ontario to comment, and who has suffered at my hands in the past (e.g.here,here) and so is no fan of mine, agrees that my mass reverts were "largely justified".
- Qualifications are frequently used to mislead: e.g. fully proportional, pure PR, delineated districts. Another deception is his trying to imply that it is I making unacceptable edits to his text and not the other way round. He accordingly changed the talk section title, this in his first (!) talk post in WP (it was later changed by User:Drcrazy102). But until Nov.26 - when after eleven days without an edit I assumed Ontario had withdrawn - I had not added any text at all since Ontario began editing on August 16. I am just protecting what was there before.
- Verifiability
- He cannot produce sources when challenged (e.g.here), but boasts about the "plethora" of sources he has introduced, bamboozling with quantity, knowing they won't be looked at. They seldom support his arguments. For e.g.his lead, para 3, "MMP is a middle ground between" is supported by none of the nine (!) sources; the same for "This has led to some disagreement...". In the section "PR systems in the broader family of voting systems", only one source (from which it was copied) supports the table, the other nine (!) don't; neither do they all support the classification. On Sep.27 I complained that a RS did not support his text: he has removed the RS but not the text, which is not correcter for now being unsourced. His ref.30 (Geometric Voting) ostensibly supports MMP producing semi-proportional results, but it in fact says this happens only if the system is "deliberately" designed that way (see my Oct.3 post). His references in DRN #2 to p.22 of the Forder book are fiction. I haven't checked them all. I have repeatedly pointed him to WP:VERIFY and he retorts it is I who should provide sources to justify my revertions!
- Does not engage in consensus building
- Not once has he straightforwardly answered a question of mine. From the start his tone has been confrontational. For example, after I proposed BRD he replied: "Know this, if you continue to simply reinsert the same flawed text..." - this tone in only his second ever post to a talk page. And I'm not inserting anything. When, at his request, I posed three central questions (on Sep.21), he avoided answering them by answering different questions. He has several times been told by others to discuss point by point, but has yet to do so. This statement to admin User:Abecedare is therefore an outrageous untruth.
- Ignores community input
- There hasn't been much community input, but there is the failure to partake in the WP:DRN incidents; ignoring this earlier proposition from User:Drcrazy102 to mediate. And when User:Reallavergne (Ontario's invitee) confirmed that "MMP should be considered proportional", Ontario simply "overlooked" this inconvenient truth.
- Exhaust the patience of productive editors
- This seems to be Ontario's tactic, keep the tsunami of text coming until I give up. What the text says is secondary, so long as a semblance of reasonableness is preserved to mislead the uninvolved; he knows no-one else is going to read it all.
- Failure to 'get the point'
- One example: I wrote on Aug.26 that MMP is mixed, but on Nov.3 he was still maintaining I "flip-flop" on the very existence of "mixed" systems. But the point is uncontroversial and irrelevant, a distraction to avoid confronting the real point, that MMP is proportional, which would bring down his house of cards. Another: he seized on a recent anonymous IP edit as a new battleground, insisting it was from me. I denied that it was. Nonetheless, in the following posts he continued to claim it was from me, an entirely synthetic dispute, another red herring. There are more.
Ontario should be permanently blocked from all electoral system articles. --BalCoder (talk) 10:27, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Comments: This is a content dispute
- I've been watching this content dispute unfold. It really needs to start from scratch, back to the beginning, dumping all baggage. Though interested, I'm largely ignorant re different voting systems and how they impact elections in Ontario or Canada. As an outsider, I don't see a solution in this fog, but I can see a shadow of hope in the direction of discussing edits and putting aside editors' behaviour. There's a lot of animosity here (on all sides) that needs to be digested and disposed of.
- To BalCoder & Ontario Teacher BFA BEd: I direct the comments above to you personally. If you respond as if I directed these comments to you personally, you will have missed my point about discussing edits, not editors, even though you have been attacked. A solution will need editors to make heroic efforts to completely ignore comments on their motives, competency, and adherence to rules.
- BalCoder, you might step back and see this from an outsider's perspective. Statements such as "I am the only person protecting the PR article", and "a WP:ANI incident which attracted no admin response" are red flags to me that an editor has invested their interest too personally, and may not be able to retreat to a consensual position.
- Yes, there has been a frustrating failure to resolve this with talk pages, dispute resolution and appeals to administrator intervention. Perhaps a lot of that has to do with the intricate nature of the topic, and the nuances that are in contention. I bet I'm among many readers that would have loved to have helped out, but were not knowledgeable enough. This one is going to take a painstaking slog through edits one at a time. Apart from ejecting egos, my other recommendation is making edits in small steps, and allowing agreement to settle before proceeding. The article has been unsettled for three months now. I see no harm in proceeding carefully for another three months. My two cents. Willondon (talk) 16:28, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- TL;DR. Dude. 166.176.59.110 (talk) 20:24, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Comment: Is this really just a content dispute?
- I would not be so quick as to call this just a content dispute. As BalCoder points out, I have had my own quarrels with his ready use of mass reversions when a more constructive approach might have been called for. That said, I think he and I did succeed in improving the Proportional Representation entry somewhat together. It was just way more tedious and time-consuming than I could afford, and I had to move on to other things, abandoning with regret some of the work that Balcoder had block-reverted. Later, I saw Balcoder adopting the same approach with someone else, but I got involved in helping to come to a constructive solution and found that this worked out well.
- Whatever difficulties Balcoder and I may have had, there is much to be said for his willingness to go the extra mile to protect the integrity of a polically-sensitive Misplaced Pages entry like this one. One can forgive a lot of sins when one witnesses such a high level of dedication.
- From a content perspective, I can vouch for the fact that some of the changes proposed by Ontario appear to be politically motivated and make no sense to me from a strictly content perspective. The example that Balcoder gives of Ontario Teacher BFA BEd (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) treating MMP like it was not a proportional system stands out very strongly in this respect. Ontario's views on this are nonsense, and I spent a considerable amount of Talk time explaining that, apparently to no effect. Balcoder cites a number of other quite convincing cases where political motivation appears to be involved in Ontario's Misplaced Pages edits.
- I suggested earlier that Balcoder's mass reversion probably makes sense in this case. I stand by that suggestion. More difficult is the question of whether Ontario should be blocked as politically motivated. I believe this option should be more carefully considered, looking at the examples that Balcoder has cited, than I can afford to do right now, but I would not be too quick to dismiss it as an option. In fact, if our concern is to protect the integrity of the site, I would say that this is the risk-management option to choose. That's my two cents worth. Wish I could afford to do more than that!Reallavergne (talk) 20:25, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Comment - This is only a "content dispute" in that many disputes arise as content disputes and are then complicated by conduct issues. Both another DRN volunteer and I tried to mediate this dispute, and we both had to fail it because User:Ontario Teacher BFA BEd didn't participate constructively. In the case of my thread, they agreed to mediation and then didn't reply for five days, after a statement having been made that every editor must participate at least every 48 hours. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:43, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, I have to Support a topic ban, because content remedies have not worked. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:43, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
Hello User:Robert McClenon,
There are currently two disputes: a conduct dispute and a content dispute. In terms of conduct, User:BalCoder has repeatedly used uncivil language such as calling me an unscrupulous liar on 27 Sep 2015. Comparatively, I have, in good faith, used 'adaptive edits' in order to build consensus whereas BalCoder has merely mass reverted content based on the author alone. Furthermore, I have contacted other editors who have previously contributed to the article in order to build consensus and have input their suggestions/points of view several times through adaptive edits. Moreover, BalCoder has accused me of being politically motivated, and holding an anti-MMP stance. This accusation is quite shocking as I am personally in favour of MMP, as it is a compromise between the other two voting systems families. In fact, I voted for MMP in the Ontario electoral reform referendum, 2007. I do feel, however, WP editors have a responsibility to compare the advantages and disadvantages of electoral systems fairly. For this reason, I have attempted to ensure fair and neutral language is used throughout the article, while BalCoder has used severe language ripe with biased tones in his/her edits.
In terms of content, User:BalCoder has renamed the subtitle 'Mixed or Hybrid' from the WP article on 11 Dec 14 to the seldom used term 'Two-tier systems'. I reverted this change. This user has deliberately misrepresented the truth by acting like his/her subtitle is the original version in order to establish a false incumbency. The premise of his/her arguments is that he/she is "protecting what was there before" is blatantly false. In truth, it is the other way around. Additionally, BalCoder removed the entire, and extremely well sourced section, 'PR systems in the broader family of voting systems'. This user has mislead others to believe I created this section- I did not! This section of the article was present prior to my contributions. I merely transferred existing information into an easy-to-understand table.
Proportional Representation Systems | Mixed Member Systems | Plurality/Majority Systems |
---|---|---|
Single Transferable Vote | Mixed Member Proportional | First Past the Post |
Party List Proportional Representation (closed/open/local) | Alternative Vote Plus | Alternative Vote/Instant-runoff voting |
Additional Member System | Preferential block voting | |
Majority Bonus System | Limited Vote | |
Supplementary Vote | ||
Two-Round System | ||
Borda Count |
This table primarily comes from the Electoral Reform Society of the UK. However, the classification of electoral systems into these three groups: PR systems, Mixed member systems, and Plurality/Majority Systems is universally used around the world by academic scholars, journalists, and electoral reform advocacy groups alike from a wide variety of political persuasions. For this reason, I provided examples from around the world to demonstrate that this classification is global. So, in addition to the aforementioned British example from an electoral reform advocacy group, I provided an example from a major Canadian magazine(Aaron Wherry from Maclean's Magazine), and from an Italian (Associate Professor of Comparative Public Law and School of Law Claudio Martinelli from the University of Milan-Bicocca) University professor. This quite blatantly disproved BalCoder's wild accusation that I am somehow exclusively using Canadian sources.
In terms of the accusation that I have not worked to reach consensus or that I have not provided sources which list MMP/AMS as semi-proportional, consider the following:
As notes in the Direct Party and Representative Voting (DPR) website,
- "Mixed member systems differ slightly from country to country. In AMS (The UK term for MMP) the number of MPs in the parliament is fixed, and as a result AMS is sometimes called a semi proportional system. With MMP additional MPs may be required to achieve the required degree of proportionality. The degree of proportionality varies depending on the ratio of MPs elected by FPTP to the number of party list MPs, and the rules by which the party list MPs are appointed." I have added this source to the list substantiating the phrase "This has led to some disagreement among scholars as to its classification.". This phrase has been added under the suggestion by, and consensus with, Øln on November 4th, 2015.
Therefore, I believe User:BalCoder should be banned from the WP article based on both uncivil conduct, and the intentional misrepresentation of facts. The content of the proportional representation article can be resolved by other editors who have demonstrated good faith such as User:Reallavergne and Øln. Thank you for your time.Ontario Teacher BFA BEd (talk) 04:09, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
References
- ^ "Voting Systems Made Simple". Electoral Reform Society.
- "Electoral Systems". Administration and Cost of Elections (ACE) Project. Retrieved 31 Aug 2015.
- O’Neal, Brian. "Electoral Systems". Parliament of Canada. Retrieved 31 Aug 2015.
- "Voting Counts: Electoral Reform for Canada" (PDF). Law Commission of Canada. 2004. p. 22.
- Forder, James (2011). The case against voting reform. Oxford: Oneworld Publications. ISBN 978-1-85168-825-8.
- "Electoral Systems and the Delimitation of Constituencies". International Foundation for Electoral Systems. 2 Jul 2009.
- ACE Project Electoral Knowledge Network. "The Systems and Their Consequences". Retrieved 26 September 2014.
- ^ Wherry, Aaron (8 Dec 2014). "The case for mixed-member proportional representation". Maclean's Magazine.
- ^ CLAUDIO MARTINELLI. "ELECTORAL SYSTEMS IN COMPARATIVE PERSPECTIVE" (PDF). UNIVERSITY OF MILAN-BICOCCA. pp. 3–4. Retrieved 29 Nov 2015.
- "Voting Systems compared". Direct Party and Representative Voting (DPR). Retrieved 3 Dec 2015.
So, the editors here plus FreeKnowledgeCreator have been edit-warring again over the page, see the article revision history. May I propose several solutions? I am aware that I am at least partially involved, if not fully by this point.
- Topic-ban Ontario Teacher BFA BEd (per oblique request by filing party, BalCoder')
- Topic-ban BalCoder (per request by Ontario Teacher BFA BEd)
- Topic-ban both editors, Ontario Teacher BFA BEd and BalCoder (per WP:BOOMERANG)
- Indef. fully-protect the article, Proportional Representation at a diff prior to the edit-warring between users: Suggested diff by Drcrazy102 (talk) (new request; this will require the users to either work co-operatively or not have the article corrected by using edit requests to Admins.)
Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 05:21, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- Comment For starters, calling someone a "new user" in the first sentence is attempting to paint an overall picture that "all new users are bad", which makes me sour (and absolutely contrary to what the community and foundation has been doing). Judging on the discussion itself, all I see is a wall of text, lots of policies and their abbreviations thrown around, and lots of diffs being tucked inside the wall of text that blends in with article links and policies pages. Talk page was working fine until BalCoder decides to send it to ANI. I suggest to send this back to the talk page where it is most suitable to this type of discussion. OhanaUnited 06:15, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Topic-ban Ontario Teacher BFA BEd
Topic-ban BalCoder
Topic-ban both editors, Ontario Teacher BFA BEd and BalCoder
Fully-protect the article, Proportional Representation at a diff prior to the edit-warring between users
Suggested diff by Drcrazy102 (talk)
Rhema Media
Disruptive edits are being made to Rhema Media.
- Sourced content is being repeatedly removed without explanation.
- Third-party sources are being deleted, and even basic bot fixes are being reverted.
- Content is being added that is copyright, unsourced, non-NPOV, advertorial and highly subjective - most copied from here or here.
- User:Leenz999 has done this here and here. They have made similar edits here, here and here.
- User:MikeMediaNZ has done this here. They have been invited to talk but haven't engaged.
- User:RM1251 has done this here. They have been invited to talk but haven't engaged. They continue to make disruptive edits.
- Very, very clear promotional and COI edits. Note the usernames: Leenz - Lee is a named employee in the article about this New Zealand (nz) company. MikeMediaNZ - Mike is also the CEO's name. RM1251 - Rhema Media 1251 (AM 1251 is a their radio station). Requested page protection and left a message at WP:COIN pointing here. — Rhododendrites \\ 15:06, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Page protected for two weeks and all editors notified about COI. Let's see how they respond. --NeilN 15:18, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks. With three COI editors inserting fluff such as "Star reflects that life really does begin at 50 and has the music and teaching programmes to prove it, but... don’t tell the kids!", the article had turned into ad copy. It still is. Reliable sources for this article subject are surprisingly few for a broadcaster; I've been looking. See Talk:Rhema_Media#Deletion? It's one of those situations where the article subject is just barely notable, and AfD seems inappropriate, but there's very limited third party coverage. John Nagle (talk) 21:36, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Page protected for two weeks and all editors notified about COI. Let's see how they respond. --NeilN 15:18, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
User Springee Canvassing
User Springee has taken to canvassing to find support for his point of view on the Reliable Sources Noticeboard. He explicitly asked SlimVirgin to contribute to the discussion after discovering s/he held the same position as him in an earlier talk page discussion from 5 years ago. I warned him about canvassing which he dismissed as an attempt to "intimidate" and then continued to recruit SlimVirgin to weigh in on the discussion. His statement wasn't neutrally stated and he didn't contact anyone with an opposing point of view to join the discussion. This is a violation of WP:VOTESTACK and Campaigning as described by WP:CANVASS.Scoobydunk (talk) 04:07, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- Except for that there isn't a vote, and that this could just as easily be seen as someone asking an expert opinion. Your warning consisted of nothing more than dropping a template on their talk page. No doubt this results from all the animosity on the talk page, where Gamaliel has already asked for the thermostat to be turned down a little bit. Drmies (talk) 05:03, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- Springee's Reply This is simply a case of an editor with a wp:battleground mentality trying to game the system rather than assuming good faith in addressing a content dispute. It is similar in nature to an ANI the editor filed against me in September also related to the Southern Strategy article . Admin Ricky81682 was the only admin to reply to (excluding some unrelated IP harassment) noting that "There's a perfectly good reason it's been ignored. These kinds of arguments also keep going to WP:AE (which at least has a word limit) and no one particularly cares because everyone can see what this is.".
- Over the past few weeks I have been trying to edit a section of the same article. Scoobydunk has reverted my edits a number of times claiming, in part, that WP:RS says that non-peer reviewed sources are less reliable than peer reviewed sources and thus can not be used to challenge a peer reviewed source.] Likely due to the walls of text this discussion yielded no support for his views. To get outside help in solving the WP:RS question regarding scholarly vs non-scholarly contradicting sources I started a RSN discussion.Reliable Sources Noticeboard Given the contentious exchanges in the topic only editor replied prior to today (only after I started replying to this ANI did I see today's replies to the RSN discussion). Given the lack of replies I went looking for older archive discussions and found the thread Scoobydunk is referring to. It was clear from reading that discussion that the consensus was that peer reviewed sources should not automatically trump non-peer reviewed sources. I asked an editor from that thread to weigh in on the topic. I did not ask the editor to decide if the sources I was using were reliable nor did I ask the editor to decide if the edits I was making to the article were correct. It is quite possible the editor would totally disagree. However, as someone who was involved in the discussion and as one of the editors who helped craft the WP:RS guideline it seemed reasonable to ask for the opinion. I do not feel I asked in a non-neutral way since I was asking for the opinion on a policy, not article edits. Furthermore, asking ONE involved editor hardly seems like canvasing. Springee (talk) 05:06, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- Springee, I was starting to be on your side until I saw you responding to DreamGuy with a half a mile of text, and now you're doing the same thing here. Good god you are wordy. Drmies (talk) 05:09, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- And we see that once again history repeats itself. A "slim", "Virgin" is at the centre of drama. Apparently Springee has abducted the aforementioned virgin to render him favours, which does not suit dunk's view as he wants the Slim Virgin all for himself. One a more Boring and wiki policified note, this does not appear to be a Canvass as the forum being used is not one which relies on voting. This is a basic request for views on source credibility and asking an expert to voice her(yes I presume all virgins that are slim should be "her") views. So, in a nutshell, Mush Drama about nothing. Regards , a slightly high FreeatlastChitchat (talk) 05:25, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- Drmies, sorry about the long reply. I too often feel the need to include all the details. Springee (talk) 06:45, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- Comment - Canvassing is not limited to "voting" and clearly applies to debates and noticeboard discussions. Also, if Springee wants to make his own ANI topic to address his concerns, he's more than welcome to. However, this topic is specifically to address WP:VOTESTACK concerns. The policy explicitly says "In the case of a re-consideration of a previous debate (such as a "no consensus" result on an AFD or CFD), it is similarly inappropriate to send an undue number of notifications specifically to those who expressed a particular viewpoint on the previous debate. For example, it would be votestacking to selectively notify a disproportionate number of "Keep" voters or a disproportionate number of "Delete" voters." Not to mention the part about Campaigning. Springee didn't just ask for clarification, he repeatedly asked for involvement on the RSN which is directly defined as canvassing. He explicitly explains how he found this discussion, identified a user that had the same opinion as him, and requested that user weigh in on the discussion, while no asking editors with opposing views to weigh in. That's verbatim WP:VOTESTACK which also says nothing about "voting". Scoobydunk (talk) 07:01, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- Since when is notifying one expert vote stacking? Springee (talk) 07:18, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- "it is similarly inappropriate to send an undue number of notifications specifically to those who expressed a particular viewpoint on the previous debate." as per WP:VOTESTACK. It's literally right there in the policy.Scoobydunk (talk) 07:20, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- What is an undue number? Springee (talk) 07:29, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- More than zero. BMK (talk) 07:36, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- What is an undue number? Springee (talk) 07:29, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- "it is similarly inappropriate to send an undue number of notifications specifically to those who expressed a particular viewpoint on the previous debate." as per WP:VOTESTACK. It's literally right there in the policy.Scoobydunk (talk) 07:20, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- I believe it's an uneven number. But let's not forget about this part too "Votestacking is an attempt to sway consensus by selectively notifying editors who have or are thought to have a predetermined point of view or opinion (which may be determined, among other ways, from a userpage notice, such as a userbox, or from user categorization), and thus encouraging them to participate in the discussion." here we don't have to worry about defining "undue" because this explicitly explains what you did in encouraging SlimVirgin to participate in the discussion. You knew their position on the matter, only selected that single editors, and encouraged them to join the RSN. Scoobydunk (talk) 07:36, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- She (I assume she) was an editor who helped write the RS policy and thus was well placed to tell us what the indented meaning was. Contrary to how you portrayed things, there was a general consensus in the archived discussion that RS does not automatically place scholarly sources over other reliable sources. The debate was how that should be communicated, not that it was the intent. Springee (talk) 07:42, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- I believe it's an uneven number. But let's not forget about this part too "Votestacking is an attempt to sway consensus by selectively notifying editors who have or are thought to have a predetermined point of view or opinion (which may be determined, among other ways, from a userpage notice, such as a userbox, or from user categorization), and thus encouraging them to participate in the discussion." here we don't have to worry about defining "undue" because this explicitly explains what you did in encouraging SlimVirgin to participate in the discussion. You knew their position on the matter, only selected that single editors, and encouraged them to join the RSN. Scoobydunk (talk) 07:36, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- Notice: I got pinged here so whatever. I think that was canvassing but Slimvirgin commented mentioning that and did not actually seem to offer an opinion. I think the Scoobydunk's templating is fine, nothing more is needed as long as Springee stops doing anything more in that vein. Second, there are four outside other opinions at RSN now so I don't think there's nothing more needed as the discussion is properly focused on weight which is the actual issue. Third, god the length and bickering is nuts here. I think it's almost time to consider dual topic bans or something just for the sake of the rest of us. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 08:07, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
Question I have been accused of asking only a single admin in an archive thread. Scoobydunk claims there was not consensus on the particular question I was asking. So whom else in that archived thread should I have asked to avoid the perception of imbalance? Springee (talk) 13:40, 3 December 2015 (UTC) Comment Scoobydunk previously accused me of canvasing when I asked another editor to lend a voice to the Southern Strategy article. When looking for an 3rd party POV I was deliberate in picking an editor whom I respected but almost always disagreed with. As can be seen in the article talk section and the notice board discussions Fyddlestix has largely not agreed with me and my proposed edits including the ones related to this discussion. For the trouble of going out of my way to pick an editor whom I assumed would not be inclined to agree with me I was accused of canvasing. Springee (talk) 15:15, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- I get that Springee is frustrated. Let's channel that frustration in other ways. The impulse to seek other opinions and break an impasse between two editors is a good one, so instead of complaining about inappropriate canvassing, let's try to channel that into an RFC or a post at Misplaced Pages:Third opinion or some other means of appropriate dispute resolution. Here, this discussion is just becoming an extention of the initial dispute. Gamaliel (talk) 15:37, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- I only listed canvassing concerns for the current RSN, however they've been going on for about a month in various degrees of our discussions. If Springee is going to reference his outreach to Fyddlestix, then the rest of his outreaches should be noted. So, Springee considers Fyddlestix a typically opposing view when it comes to matters of dispute, however Fyddlestix had no previous involvement on the Southern Strategy article before Springee contacted him. Springee left Fyddlestix, the opposing view, a neutrally worded message. At the same time, Springee contacted Rjensen who had been recently engaged on the Southern Strategy, and left him a clearly biased message laying out his argument in full and seeking assistance. I gave Springee a warning for this biased approach in recruiting editors, as Springee notes above. Since then, Springee has also contacted Scott Illni who's previously edited the article similarly to Springee, like including information claiming Reagan didn't use the Southern Strategy. Springee has also contacted Guy Macon to seek assistance, and Guy Macon has taken similar stances with Springee regarding multiple political issues in the past. Then, of course, there's SlimVirgin. So Springee attempted to involve 1 editor with an opposing view, while contacting 4 editors with supporting views over the course of the last month. I only focused on SlimVirgin and the current RSN because I don't like raising issue when the content can be subjective, and with SlimVirgin it is an objectively verbatim violation of WP:VOTESTACK. However, if Springee considers his outreach to Fyddlesix to be an example of recruiting an opposing view, then his similar outreaches to 3 supporting views should be noted.Scoobydunk (talk) 18:28, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- Comment - Not these two again! It's User:Scoobydunk and User:Springee continuing to forum shop and quarrel about Southern Strategy. This has been going on for a month at multiple noticeboards. They have both been notified of discretionary sanctions for American politics. Can some uninvolved administrator please topic-ban them from discussion of and reports about Southern strategy? Robert McClenon (talk) 01:22, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- Robert McClenon, You previously accused me of forum shopping in a NPOVN discussion that was started by Scoobydunk. I do not understand how that would have been forum shopping. Asking a specific RSN question is also not forum shopping (and no one claimed it was). This ANI was started by Scoobydunk so again, please don't accuse me of forum shopping related to this discussion. Springee (talk) 03:16, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- user:Robert McClenon this is one thing I agree with Springee, and your accusations of forum shopping do not exhibit good faith. Every issue posted at the relevant noticeboard has been separate and justified. This hasn't been over a single issue, but regarding multiple aspects of individual pieces of information, sources, and behavior that a single noticeboard does not encompass. The issues have ranged from Majority opinion over the Top-Down approach, to NPOV concerns, to reliable source issues, and now behavioral. There is no one noticeboard that can address all of these and they all regarding different edits. I also think it's inappropriate to suggest a dual topic ban when editors follow the dispute resolution guidelines outlined by Misplaced Pages.Scoobydunk (talk) 05:48, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
Request for closure based on self enforced break I'm announcing here that I am going to stay off the Southern Strategy article for at least the rest of the year. As I've said before, between multiple undos of my edits by Scoobydunk and the generally heated (as noted by others) discussion pages I think it has become too challenging to work productively on the topic. I hope this will simply put this mess behind us and hopefully other editors can work with some of the sources I've brought to the table. Springee (talk) 03:24, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- I don't think a self imposed break is a solution. The last time Springee suggested a self-imposed 30-day Iban for wikihounding another editor, he immediately went back to following that editor to different articles and reverting his work after the 30 days expired. Those are just 3 of the article reverts of HughD, but there are over a dozen reverts that all occurred on the same day his iban expired on October 15.Scoobydunk (talk) 05:48, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- Scoobydunk, if your object is to get both of us topic banned I suspect this is a good way to do it. I think we have two admins who would be quite happy to see that happen. If that is your wish so be it but I would rather not be topic banned. Springee (talk) 06:04, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- So Springee followed the self-imposed break then. I don't see a problem. If Springee self imposes a break until the end of the year and doesn't edit the article until the end of the year, is that enough for you Scoobydunk? Else what do you want, four weeks? A full ban? You're free to bring this up again if this starts on January 1st but I'm assuming that people will move on to disputing the next item then. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 20:46, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- user:Ricky81682 I'm not sure what all an I-ban entails but he maintained contact with HughD either directly or indirectly throughout. He just didn't directly revert his edits. What is the difference between a self-imposed break and one forced by an admin? I think if I understand this, it will help me answer your questions about what I'm looking for.Scoobydunk (talk) 23:13, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- A self-imposed ban means nothing but an admin can shut this discussion down as moot and we can move on. An admin one is admin imposed and either requires an admin deciding to do it or enough support here to do it. Again, what would you propose be done? As I stated above, mutual topic bans may be required if it's helpful to the encyclopedia. If you two simply cannot co-exist together, and I can't figure out who's more at fault, I'd prefer not having this page nor AE filled up with bickering by telling you both to find another one of the 4.9 million pages here that aren't this one. If Springee stays away for the next few weeks, then you have free reign there but if you're back here on January 1st complaining that Springee is back, then we've resolved nothing. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 23:38, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- My complaints are strictly limited to policy violations and have never been because "someone is back". I don't see how a mutual ban is any sort of solution when Springee is the only one who's canvassed. I'll settle for self imposed break, but I hope next time Springee resorts to wikihounding, canvassing, tendentious editing or whatever, an admin actually does something about it. Scoobydunk (talk) 00:52, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- I'm saying if there's a limited self-imposed ban, I would be surprised if upon editing there again, the same issues didn't pop up again and thus all we've done is had three weeks of quiet and delayed the inevitable. I'm not offering any opinion as to your complaints, as noted above, you were correct in that it seems somewhat inappropriate so the templating is correct but I don't see it as problematic enough to warrant a block. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 00:56, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- My complaints are strictly limited to policy violations and have never been because "someone is back". I don't see how a mutual ban is any sort of solution when Springee is the only one who's canvassed. I'll settle for self imposed break, but I hope next time Springee resorts to wikihounding, canvassing, tendentious editing or whatever, an admin actually does something about it. Scoobydunk (talk) 00:52, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- A self-imposed ban means nothing but an admin can shut this discussion down as moot and we can move on. An admin one is admin imposed and either requires an admin deciding to do it or enough support here to do it. Again, what would you propose be done? As I stated above, mutual topic bans may be required if it's helpful to the encyclopedia. If you two simply cannot co-exist together, and I can't figure out who's more at fault, I'd prefer not having this page nor AE filled up with bickering by telling you both to find another one of the 4.9 million pages here that aren't this one. If Springee stays away for the next few weeks, then you have free reign there but if you're back here on January 1st complaining that Springee is back, then we've resolved nothing. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 23:38, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- user:Ricky81682 I'm not sure what all an I-ban entails but he maintained contact with HughD either directly or indirectly throughout. He just didn't directly revert his edits. What is the difference between a self-imposed break and one forced by an admin? I think if I understand this, it will help me answer your questions about what I'm looking for.Scoobydunk (talk) 23:13, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- Scoobydunk's comments and demand for punishment come across as WP:BATTLEGROUND to me. Perhaps we should both voluntarily leave the article for the rest of the month. My requests for outside help, improper though they now appear to be, were the result of Scoobydunks efforts to absolutely block all my editing efforts in the 1970-1990 subsection (we were the only editors at the time) and a desire to avoid an edit war. An ANI less than a month back found we were both less than civil . 1RR for me, Scoobydunk got a warning due to a technicality . Taking advantage of my 1RR limitation, all 5 of my edits from Nov 14th to Nov 28th were systematically reverted, . The first was new material to the article. The subsequent 5 were good faith effort to address the limited feedback Scoobydunk offered for the undos. These reversals of good faith edits go against WP:DONTREVERT and look like WP:OWN. I'm taking the time off from the article because I'm tired of the above and tired of the implications of bad faith after spending several hours in a research library finding hard copy sources. If Scoobydunk wants sanctions then I suggest we review the above reverts in context of the recent uncivil editing ANI. But, perhaps the better option is we both take some time off from the article (I am) or we just drop it. Springee (talk) 04:07, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- You're the only one responsible for your behavior Springee. Springee also misrepresents the events. Following his 1RR sanction, Springee immediately took to reverting information in the article again. Yes, he did add some new material, but he also removed and edited pre-existing material which partially lead to his 1RR sanction in the first place. Slakr was the admin overseeing our previous edit war ANI and he has been kept informed of just about all of the editing since he gave Springee a 1RR sanction. This includes all of the diffs Springee just listed above. Slakr ultimately decided to temporarily lock the article and asked us to use dispute resolution. We have been following Slakr's advice since then, but since the DRN's weren't going in favor of Springee, he decided to start canvassing and that's why we're here today. Since Slakr suggested we use dispute resolution, there hasn't been any edit warring and we've been following his suggestions, however it's hard to achieve a valid consensus when one editors resorts to canvassing to influence the outcome.Scoobydunk (talk) 07:27, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Your claim of immediately 'started reverting again' makes the presumption that the article was 'correct' before the reverts. The ANI finds (which found against both of us) did not make any ruling on the quality of the material, only the uncivil behavior of the editors. The article lock also didn't claim to support the current state of the article. Slakr told you he saw nothing wrong with the continued edits. Your comment about DRN's is misleading. 3 of your 5 reverts occurred before you filed a COATRACK NPOVN claim. After it was clear that claim got no support I tried to edit 2 more times. You immediately reverted both edits. My RSN filing on the 29th, was made after your 5th reversion of my material. Perhaps your intent is to get us both blocked in order to maintain status quo in the article. Either way, I think Ricky has made it clear that if you think sanctions are appropriate, propose them. Else, let it drop. Springee (talk) 13:57, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- You're the only one responsible for your behavior Springee. Springee also misrepresents the events. Following his 1RR sanction, Springee immediately took to reverting information in the article again. Yes, he did add some new material, but he also removed and edited pre-existing material which partially lead to his 1RR sanction in the first place. Slakr was the admin overseeing our previous edit war ANI and he has been kept informed of just about all of the editing since he gave Springee a 1RR sanction. This includes all of the diffs Springee just listed above. Slakr ultimately decided to temporarily lock the article and asked us to use dispute resolution. We have been following Slakr's advice since then, but since the DRN's weren't going in favor of Springee, he decided to start canvassing and that's why we're here today. Since Slakr suggested we use dispute resolution, there hasn't been any edit warring and we've been following his suggestions, however it's hard to achieve a valid consensus when one editors resorts to canvassing to influence the outcome.Scoobydunk (talk) 07:27, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- I already said I was fine with your self proposed break, then you started to bring up information that has already been addressed by Slakr. So it's clear that you're the one that needs to "drop it". Also, for every revert of mine that you're complaining about, it followed a revert of your own. That's to say, you resorted to reverting first instead of waiting for a consensus of a dispute resolution. Also, I didn't mislead about anything and I actually started a DRN before Slakr locked the article and suggested using dispute resolution, which is all I spoke to. Yes, I've been using dispute resolution to solve these issues, but you've resorted to reverting the article to suit your narrative and then resorted to canvassing to affect the outcome of the dispute resolution. Again, I'm fine with the self imposed break.Scoobydunk (talk) 16:38, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Comment If Springee is canvassing, he is really, really bad at it, based upon the fact that he also asked me for advice (User talk:Guy Macon#Help with Southern Strategy editing). Springee is familiar with how I do things, and would have known that asking me is pretty much asking to have me impartially examine his own edit history along with the edit history of whoever he is having the dispute with. I declined in this case because I don't think I can be unbiased on this particular topic (See Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard#Southern Strategy), but he had no way of knowing that ahead of time. --Guy Macon (talk) 23:07, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- I'd suggest (but not mandate) that no canvassing of anyone in the future be done. It's clear some people will take it as a slight no matter who is contacted. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 23:38, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- Actual canvassing is bad. Asking for help is not. Because I have been involved in WP:DRN for a long time, many people who have been is DRN cases that I mediated ask me for help or advice regarding content disputes. Nothing wrong with that unless they have reason to believe that I will favor their position. --Guy Macon (talk) 11:27, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- I'd suggest (but not mandate) that no canvassing of anyone in the future be done. It's clear some people will take it as a slight no matter who is contacted. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 23:38, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- Comment - It doesn't really matter whether there has been canvassing. It doesn't really matter whether there has been improper forum shopping. It isn't important to come up with a proper wikilawyered identification of what is wrong. It is clear that these two editors do not like each other and are disrupting multiple Misplaced Pages forums with their dispute, and it is clear that something needs to be done. Rather than an interaction ban, which wouldn't work well and might result in more arguments, I suggest that an uninvolved administrator topic-ban both editors from Southern strategy, broadly defined. They have both already been alerted to American politics discretionary sanctions. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:41, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- According to the very same sanctions Robert McClenon just referenced: "Disagreements concerning article content are to be resolved by seeking to build consensus through the use of polite discussion – involving the wider community, if necessary. The dispute resolution process is designed to assist consensus-building when normal talk page communication has not worked. When there is a good-faith dispute, editors are expected to participate in the consensus-building process and to carefully consider other editors' views, rather than simply edit-warring back-and-forth between competing versions." This is precisely what Springee and I have done. We've followed the principles and have sought dispute resolution instead of edit warring. So to recommend a topic ban when both editors are following the very same principles they've been informed of seems unmerited and counterproductive.Scoobydunk (talk) 19:12, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Almost two dozen articles, apparently robocreated
User Carolineneil (talk · contribs) created nearly two dozen articles in the span of as many minutes this past weekend. One of them, Different Instruments for Different Equations, has recently been nominated for deletion. I agreed with that assessment, it was a case of textbook writing and the creation of a chapter name, and treating that self-chosen name as if it were a distinct "topic". I then checked regarding the article's creation, and found nearly two articles, all pretty much in the same style were mass created by the same editor. At most one of them, Roy model, seems to be an actual topic, and thus salvageable. (As written though, perhaps WP:NUKE would be appropriate.) There are also two more created after the initial spree, and again, perhaps one of them, Maximum score estimator is an actual topic, but again, nuking might be best.
WP:DP does not seem to have a mass deletion option. It seems pointless to have the same discussion once per article. Recommendations?
Also, someone with biochemical expertise might want to peruse the several successful AFC's on the Talk page. The subjects do not look like "topics" to me, but they are far enough from my expertise that I refrain from pushing it. Choor monster (talk) 15:20, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- Mass deletion delete the pages in whole, not the specific discussion topic. Tropicalkitty (talk) 03:58, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- Not a biochemist here either. Most of these seem to me to be indistinguishable from sections of a multi-chapter review paper - highly specific, and very textbook-style. The editor should try to a) fit that material into existing articles (there's an easy match for the role of 'parent article' for each of those), and b) turn the text into an encyclopedia article, not a didactic monograph.-- Elmidae 18:18, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- In fact, one of his successful AFCs, Glucose oxidation reaction was speedily deleted yesterday as content duplication, User:DGG/CSD log#December 2015, while another Biosynthetic mechanism was turned into a redirect. As an outsider to biochemistry, I'll venture that it would seem "Glucose oxidation reaction" ought to be a redirect to Glycolysis, the existing content duplication, which I'll mention the editor in question has now added material to. And again, speaking as an outsider, I have the impression that "biosynthetic mechanism" is not a topic as such, and so that entry should have been speedy deleted. Choor monster (talk) 18:50, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- Yes Glucose oxidation should have been redirected as you say, & I will do it. I redirected biosynthetic mechanism to this nearest phrase; I would interpret the potential meanings as either reaction mechanisms of biosynthetic reactions, or biochemical pathways of metabolism; the draft article seemed rather confused between them. I don't think the redirect useless just in case someone types it in. It is in cases like this with a confused article an open question whether to delete and then redirect, or just redirect. DGG ( talk ) 08:00, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- Checking Google, I find that "biosynthetic mechanism" is in fact a term of art in biochemistry. So you are correct, and I was flat out wrong. Whether or not it is a "topic" as such, it is a genuine search term. Choor monster (talk) 13:50, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- Yes Glucose oxidation should have been redirected as you say, & I will do it. I redirected biosynthetic mechanism to this nearest phrase; I would interpret the potential meanings as either reaction mechanisms of biosynthetic reactions, or biochemical pathways of metabolism; the draft article seemed rather confused between them. I don't think the redirect useless just in case someone types it in. It is in cases like this with a confused article an open question whether to delete and then redirect, or just redirect. DGG ( talk ) 08:00, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- In fact, one of his successful AFCs, Glucose oxidation reaction was speedily deleted yesterday as content duplication, User:DGG/CSD log#December 2015, while another Biosynthetic mechanism was turned into a redirect. As an outsider to biochemistry, I'll venture that it would seem "Glucose oxidation reaction" ought to be a redirect to Glycolysis, the existing content duplication, which I'll mention the editor in question has now added material to. And again, speaking as an outsider, I have the impression that "biosynthetic mechanism" is not a topic as such, and so that entry should have been speedy deleted. Choor monster (talk) 18:50, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- As Elmidae guessed, many of the titles match sections in this textbook (ToC linked there); perhaps others match sections of other books. The content doesn't seem to be identical to the book, though. Kanguole 17:33, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- Just happened to come across this. I'm an academic (not a biochemist) and have read that textbook repeatedly. The articles he's writing seem to be rewrites of condensed notes drawing from multiple reference texts, with some attention paid to organizing them into reasonable topics, not a mere copying of that textbook. I should also note that this textbook in question is more similar to an advanced reference text in econometrics rather than a typical textbook, meaning that its treatment of the topics are fairly encyclopedic, and the methods covered have generally gone through some notability criteria.
- Having gone through the dozen of article he's created, while several articles have textbook-style titles, my opinion is that they could be close to encyclopedic quality if renamed and reorganized, and certainly not all of them should be deleted. These are legitimate and notable statistical methods that have been widely used and adopted in multiple disciplines. There is currently a huge gap in Misplaced Pages on some of these topics, since so few of our users are statisticians. I would recommend not discouraging the effort from this user.
- I also went through his edit history. Those articles were not robo-created; he actually worked on them in a sandbox. 50.153.133.158 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:40, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- There's a reason we have WP:NUKE. I identified one of them above, Roy model, as possibly being a genuine topic, but what we have is not in any sense an encyclopedic article regarding Roy model, and I feel the same about the others I looked at. But keep in mind there are more than one meanings to "encyclopedic", "notable" and so on. Compare with something elementary, like "reduction to lowest terms", which is covered extensively in textbooks, but we do not have a separate article on it, and probably never will. Choor monster (talk) 19:45, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Admin assistance needed at Knanaya
For some time, Knanaya has been repeatedly affected by at least two editors trying to enforce their views, both using myriad sockpuppets and IPs. Periodically, an "anti-Knanaya" editor has repeatedly added disparaging material about the group, misusing sources to do so (see discussions here, here, and here). Alternately, a "pro-Knanaya" editor (or connected group of editors) edit-wars over the article to excise material they disapprove, even (or especially) well cited material by academics who studied the community (see discussions here, here, and here). They've edited under the names Stansley, Psthomas, and various IPs:. In August, the article had to be semi-protected through November, and now that it has expired the edit warring has resumed.
I'm also submitting a WP:RFPP, but it's a shame to have to semi-protect the page for so long considering that the disruption seems to come primarily from two people or groups. Perhaps someone could look into the feasibility of a range-block for this problem?--Cúchullain /c 18:48, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- ,this revision has kept the excised material intact with previous references. This gives more clarity to the subject. Further more if the collected excised material is checked Admin's can see various Origin stories apart from Neill. The only official version that should be taken is the material mentioned in Knanaya community website(http://kottayamad.org/knanaya-history/). That credibility is more than enough for publication (This is the approved version by bishops, priests, synods and community members). If looked more into the excised material Swiderski himself reports as per Cuchullain version that he is unsure about the Southist-Northist divisional history. All these points to the self-conflicting and invalidation of Swiderski's material. Disregarding this facts and further backing up this fictional elements seems to be more detrimental. These material is published in the 1980's and under a foreign private university, so the standards of this are also questionable. But probably out of respect that Cuchullain is a Master Editor, there are requests to keep the Southist-Northist theory, but under a separate title or a new page. None of these sensible suggestions seems to be tasteful for Cuchullain. I hope the use of these semi-protection requests aren't a means to an end; the edit history shows as such. Let the excised material remain excised or to the other person's request under a different page or title. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.0.76.25 (talk) 09:17, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- It's interesting that you don't address the sockpuppetry and edit warring matter at all. For others, please see this, where 61.3.42.219 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) edited a comment by 59.88.210.249 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) in the same post they claimed to be a different person.--Cúchullain /c 15:24, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- If the edited version is a mere grammatical correction which gives more clarity and the same are on the same page of request and if the both parties seems to be o.k about it, where does your sock-puppetry claim stands. Is it a deflection from the mentioned concerns. If not so you have failed to ascertain how a person from Delhi and Maharashtra can be the same - Then that will be the million dollar answer. Other Admins may look at this: http://www.distancesfrom.com/ (From Noida, Uttar Pradesh, India to Pawti, Maharashtra 431703, India) - 1274 Km; I only just saw the talk page rampant now. But standing within all respects to Cuchullain, I have to say from edit history checks, this is not his/hers first claim on the article. There might be people who say that keep the excess material in it and all. I would say just remove it. This is too much and the issue is very clear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.2.171.193 (talk) 16:18, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- People using proxy servers to disguise themselves happens pretty regularly on Misplaced Pages, and people from different areas can easily coordinate together as meat puppets. The issue here is that we have multiple IPs pushing the same edits on the same subejects at the same times, and revert warring over it. That's not going to fly.--Cúchullain /c 16:36, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
- Dear Cuchullain, I don't think wikipedia allows edit through proxy servers. I use CyberGhost 5 to overcome certain area-restrictions. You may use it and try an experimental edit - Misplaced Pages wont allow it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.2.171.193 (talk) 16:42, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
The article has been semi-protected for 6 months due to the sockpuppetry problem. Short of someone implementing range blocks it's probably the only solution that will work.--Cúchullain /c 17:10, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
SheriffIsInTown is vandalizing pages and pov pushing
(non-admin closure) Requested close by filer. Callmemirela 🍁 {Talk} ♑ 00:48, 8 December 2015 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:SheriffIsInTown should be blocked not only because he is disruptive and an extreme pov pusher but because, after being warned, continues to remove vital sourced information from Afghan President Mohammad Ashraf Ghani's article. , He claims that Ghani, who was born in Afghanistan and lived in America as a U.S. citizen, is a Pakistani. SheriffIsInTown is simply insulting the Afghan President and spreading Pakistani propaganda. There is no record or any source that even mentions the Afghan President residing in Pakistan, he only visited that country like how Obama and other world leaders do. That doesn't make them Pakistanis.--Krzyhorse22 (talk) 02:40, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- This is completely wrong accusation, the information which I removed is unsourced, I asked Krzyhorse22 to add the sources to pertinent information but instead of doing that he is reporting me here. This matter could have been easily resolved if he would have added the sources. Moreover, I never claimed that Ashraf Ghani is Pakistani. Krzyhorse22 removed "Category:Afghan expatriates in Pakistan" from the page which I restored providing a url in the summary line which says he holds Pakistani identity card. Many Afghans lived in Pakistan when they fleed the war in their country and it is possible that he lived there as well but that does not make him Pakistani and never did I say that. Instead of following the policies Krzyhorse22 is unnecessarily harassing me. He can add back the removed information if he can add pertinent sources to corresponding content. Sheriff (report) 03:56, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- He removes large amount of properly sourced and vital content from Afghan President's article and says "his is completely wrong accusation" All the sources clearly explain that Ghani lived in Lebanon and the United States but SheriffIsInTown doesn't accept this, instead he believes Ghani lived in Pakistan. Paki identity card is ONLY issued to Pakistanis. Therefore, we're dealing with a disruptive pov pusher who is spreading propaganda and destroying articles of notable individuals, and falsely accuses others of harassing him.--Krzyhorse22 (talk) 04:25, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- First of all, you know the word "Paki" is derogatory and you snuck that one in to push your own POV. I don't see any "vandalism", but rather two competing points of view that could and SHOULD be taken to the talk pages. I for one am sick of people using these boards as a way to circumvent discussions and take out petty squabbles. That's my take, and I'll now leave it to the admins.Trinacrialucente (talk) 06:25, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- What are you talking about? Look and pay close attention at the above diff again, he completely removed sections with properly sourced content from the article of a world leader. That is vandalism. Paki used for a person may be derogatory but I used it for a piece of document. This proves you're uneducated, and you're defending a vandal. Don't feel bad but if you have nothing useful or inteligent to say, don't say anything. Let admins deal with this issue.--Krzyhorse22 (talk) 10:43, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- First of all, you know the word "Paki" is derogatory and you snuck that one in to push your own POV. I don't see any "vandalism", but rather two competing points of view that could and SHOULD be taken to the talk pages. I for one am sick of people using these boards as a way to circumvent discussions and take out petty squabbles. That's my take, and I'll now leave it to the admins.Trinacrialucente (talk) 06:25, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- He removes large amount of properly sourced and vital content from Afghan President's article and says "his is completely wrong accusation" All the sources clearly explain that Ghani lived in Lebanon and the United States but SheriffIsInTown doesn't accept this, instead he believes Ghani lived in Pakistan. Paki identity card is ONLY issued to Pakistanis. Therefore, we're dealing with a disruptive pov pusher who is spreading propaganda and destroying articles of notable individuals, and falsely accuses others of harassing him.--Krzyhorse22 (talk) 04:25, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- This has escalated to the point where Krzyhorse22 needs to either strike his last comments or be sanctioned. MySweetSatan (talk) 10:53, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- You just created this account, likely a sock.--Krzyhorse22 (talk) 12:35, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
I went back to check why he is claiming that I removed sourced information and found out that in his subsequent edits he did add one source (Brittanica) which somehow I did not notice when I reverted him. I added all that information back for which there was a source. I did not check whether the source actually supports the content in the page or whether Brittanica can be considered a reliable source.
His comments above show his hatred for Pakistanis in general and then he claims that I am a Pakistani POV pusher but actually he has shown by his comments that he is an Afghani POV pusher if someone needs to be blocked is him and not me.
He kept insisting addition of "Mohammad" to Afghan president's name citing a WP:PRIMARY source while 23 reliable sources in the article mentioned his name as Ashraf Ghani without "Muhammad" his WP:COMMONNAME but he kept his attitude of WP:I DON'T LIKE IT and recreated the redirect when it was speedily deleted upon my request to facilitate the move from Mohammad Ashraf Ghani to Ashraf Ghani. Then another example of WP:I DON'T LIKE IT was when he moved Hamid Karzai International Airport to Kabul International Airport while article itself mentioned that the name was changed in October 2014, the move was reverted by me. It seems like all of this upsetted him enough to look for an opportunity to report and punish me. What he does not understamd is that as Misplaced Pages editors, our edits can get challenged by other editors because they are here to contribute as well and difference of opinion exists. Then, he also wikihounded me to Muhammad Ali Jinnah and reverted one of my edits there which was reverted by FreeatlastChitchat supporting my edit.
There are also issues of WP:OWNERSHIP, to me it seems like that he thinks he owns all Afghanistan related articles and think that no other editor especially a Pakistani editor has a right to edit them or challenge his edits on those articles.
All of my edits are based on valid reasoning and policy enforcement but some of them may seem like Pakistani POV edits to another editor but they are actually not and I have valid policy based reasoning for those edits. Sheriff (report) 14:59, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- First of, SheriffIsInTown seems to know very well all the policies of Misplaced Pages but yet he vandalizes the article of the current Afghan President, i.e., removes properly sourced entire sections, especially the President's birth information and early education. I think he's doing this to provoke me into an edit war, which I often avoid. Second, the Afghan President in his own website says his full name is Mohammad Ashraf Ghani, it is you who keeps removing the "Mohammad" by showing the I don't care attitude. The third point is that you keep adding "Category:Afghan expatriates in Pakistan" to Ashraf Ghani's article, where is your proof that he lived in Pakistan? About the airport, I was the first editor in 2014 to rename Kabul International Airport to Hamid Karzai International Airport. My recent rename was my misunderstanding but why is that a big deal to you? Why are you excessively focusing on my every edit? You completely removed the alternative name "Kabul International Airport", which has been the name for 70+ years. You should learn to understand that the whole world is watching these pages, so when you vandalize an article many will come to fix your vandalism.--Krzyhorse22 (talk) 01:48, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- Block both Completely uninvolved in this conflict, but checking the diffs shows that both the reporter and reportee have violated several policies and may not be here for the right reasons. I'd suggest two short blocks to give both a chance to cool down. Jeppiz (talk) 15:18, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Hi Jeppiz, please cite the policies which were violated by me and when? Sheriff (report) 15:23, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Jeppiz, I think you're being prejudice here, you should be blocked for falsely accusing me and for jumping to conclusion without knowing the facts.--Krzyhorse22 (talk) 02:15, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- Support block of Krzyhorse22 Personal attacks and ethnic slurs don't belong on Misplaced Pages. MySweetSatan (talk) 23:21, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
I've removed several copyright violations from Ashraf Ghani, finding the originals in his official biography. Several more sentences seem barely paraphrased, but I have to run - could someone check? Likewise, I've not checked where in all the abovementioned warring this material was introduced. NebY (talk) 16:25, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
My comment shows hatred for vandals, not for Pakistanis. The name MySweetSatan (talk · contribs) was indef blocked for trolling. It was created yesterday, defending SheriffIsInTown and wanted me to get wrongly blocked. The name was uniquely made like SheriffIsInTown, an indication that it may be a sock, especially seeing User:FreeatlastChitchat doing this. Notice the similarities in the names, behavior and area they edit in. --Krzyhorse22 (talk) 01:22, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- What you are talking about is not WP:VANDALISM rather it was WP:GOODFAITH as I realized later on that you added a source to some of the information which was completely unsourced when I first removed it. Please read the policies and stop falsely accusing people, it's not going to get you anywhere. Sheriff (report) 03:04, 6 December 2015 (UTC)s
- You may deny it all you want but what you did clearly amounts to vandalism. You should have carefully reviewed my edits. You still cannot provide any reliable source about Ghani living in Pakistan. Why are you keep saying that he lived in Pakistan when the fact is he was living in the United States?--Krzyhorse22 (talk) 04:45, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
I see this as more of a content dispute than anything, leading it to edit war if I am correct. Based on what I see, this is just nothing but a pitiful back-and-forth case or he said he said. I am seeing rather an issue with both editors now making accusations of socking, NPA, harassment, and God knows what else. This needs to stop NOW. This is getting no one anywhere and rather makes case look weak for both editors. Now, my 2 cent. From what I see based on the diffs, I see sourced content being removed without reason. However, I see that SherrifIsInTown "sourced" one of their additions. I am contemplating closing this thread for content dispute. I see no efforts from either editors on the talk page discussing these changes. It was just a plain case of going straight to ANI without further consensus on the core issue. Callmemirela 🍁 {Talk} ♑ 03:08, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- Callmemirela, with editors such as SherifIsInTown its useless to discuss anything because he's one of those who has that I don't care attitude. I did try to discuss the issue with him on his talk, he showed that I don't care attitude. That's why I came here so others can step in. He's an edit-warrior pov pushing, removing from articles anything he doesn't like. The proper thing to do is to insert 'citation needed' tags but he completely removes well recognized information. Every source about Ashraf Ghani has all that information that SherifIsInTown has removed. MySweetSatan clearly acted as a sock, can you explain why I may be wrong?--Krzyhorse22 (talk) 04:45, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- I see no evidence that you tried to discuss it at User talk:SheriffIsInTown, just two canned edits, the first only two days ago. In any case, that would have been the wrong place. You need to discuss it on the article talk page where other editors may engage in the discussion. I've started two discussions there, raising concerns about various matters including copyright violation, conflict of interest and sourcing. NebY (talk) 22:24, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- I was about to say that. Thanks for beating me to it. Callmemirela 🍁 {Talk} ♑ 22:44, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- This thread may be closed now. Thank you.--Krzyhorse22 (talk) 05:41, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- I was about to say that. Thanks for beating me to it. Callmemirela 🍁 {Talk} ♑ 22:44, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- I see no evidence that you tried to discuss it at User talk:SheriffIsInTown, just two canned edits, the first only two days ago. In any case, that would have been the wrong place. You need to discuss it on the article talk page where other editors may engage in the discussion. I've started two discussions there, raising concerns about various matters including copyright violation, conflict of interest and sourcing. NebY (talk) 22:24, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
User:Champak bora
The user apparently created a sock of Ritu sarma913 with repeatedly creating Non notable pages. In addition, the sock removing the A7 template despite being tagged. So called up the admin noticeboard to lookup to these sockmasters D'SuperHero (talk) 07:45, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Comment this IP address removed the speedy deletion tag and i'm completely sure this IP is of the sock of CB. Please admins ping. D'SuperHero (talk) 08:06, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- In addition the sockmaster did wrote his biography whereas Misplaced Pages strongly discourages of autobio writing D'SuperHero (talk) 08:09, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
Large sock cluster
The problem is evident looking at the edit history of Silver nanoparticle. There are multiple accounts named "Nano(something)" (e.g. Nanomsg) making large-scale edits to a number of articles, also including Colloidal gold, Gold Nanoparticles (Chemotherapy) and Photothermal therapy. Some of the edits are okay; other contain dubious health information. Either way having a bunch of what look like computer-generated accounts acting in consort is problematic. Alexbrn (talk) 10:34, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- I have filed an SPI at Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Nanoadm. Twenty accounts so far. Liz 12:22, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Looks like a college class project. --SB_Johnny | ✌ 12:29, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Yep, class project at University of Pittsburgh. --SB_Johnny | ✌ 12:37, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Suggest forwarding this on to the WMF. Jusdafax 13:25, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Let's just ask Eryk (Wiki Ed) and Ian (Wiki Ed) and see if they know anything about this. Liz 18:41, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- I don't know if it's related, but I remember back in March there was at least one - and maybe two - unregistered classes editing gold nanoparticle articles. I remember we contacted one prof (not at Pitt), but I do feel like there were other edits that looked like classes whose origins we couldn't track down. Ryan (Wiki Ed)/Rhododendrites was the one who solved the mystery then. He may remember more. I'll keep digging, see if I made any other notes. Guettarda/Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 22:14, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- @Ian (Wiki Ed): I remember it well, but that was at a school on the west coast, not UPitt (being vague because it seems like referencing a very specific class at a specific university without their prior knowledge is fuzzy WP:OUTING territory). I spoke to the professor on the phone in March and we exchanged several emails. He was very interested to work with us (Wiki Ed) next time around, but as I'm not managing the classroom program now I'd have to check with Helaine (Wiki Ed) regarding whether or not she's been in touch with him this term. I've forwarded the March email thread and a summary to her so she can follow up. That doesn't help in the immediate, of course... --Ryan (Wiki Ed) (talk) 22:41, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Looking a bit more, I'm skeptical it's the same class. The website for the previous class has not been updated and there are indeed multiple IPs working on these articles which geolocate to UPitt. --Ryan (Wiki Ed) (talk) 22:49, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Well, the SPI was declined and closed by Mike V so that's a dead issue. Liz 22:59, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Looking a bit more, I'm skeptical it's the same class. The website for the previous class has not been updated and there are indeed multiple IPs working on these articles which geolocate to UPitt. --Ryan (Wiki Ed) (talk) 22:49, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- @Ian (Wiki Ed): I remember it well, but that was at a school on the west coast, not UPitt (being vague because it seems like referencing a very specific class at a specific university without their prior knowledge is fuzzy WP:OUTING territory). I spoke to the professor on the phone in March and we exchanged several emails. He was very interested to work with us (Wiki Ed) next time around, but as I'm not managing the classroom program now I'd have to check with Helaine (Wiki Ed) regarding whether or not she's been in touch with him this term. I've forwarded the March email thread and a summary to her so she can follow up. That doesn't help in the immediate, of course... --Ryan (Wiki Ed) (talk) 22:41, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- I don't know if it's related, but I remember back in March there was at least one - and maybe two - unregistered classes editing gold nanoparticle articles. I remember we contacted one prof (not at Pitt), but I do feel like there were other edits that looked like classes whose origins we couldn't track down. Ryan (Wiki Ed)/Rhododendrites was the one who solved the mystery then. He may remember more. I'll keep digging, see if I made any other notes. Guettarda/Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 22:14, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Let's just ask Eryk (Wiki Ed) and Ian (Wiki Ed) and see if they know anything about this. Liz 18:41, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Suggest forwarding this on to the WMF. Jusdafax 13:25, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
Here's a diff which covers most of the changes made by the "Nano*" accounts to Silver nanoparticle: It's not clear what the intent is. (Incidentally, Misplaced Pages needs a smarter diff engine; less changed there than the volume of changes would indicate.) It does not appear to be a promotion for "colloidal silver", a popular scam-type medication. (The Mayo Clinic says that doesn't work and may be dangerous.). Not seeing any COI issues. The edits look reasonably legitimate, and have cites, but the cites are not easy to check without access to a medical library. Nobody ever put an AN/I notice on User Talk:Nanomsg or User Talk:Nanoadm, so I just did, along with a note asking them to please tell us what's going on and to read WP:ASSIGN. If they engage, this will get straightened out quickly. If we're lucky, we get some new editors with medical and chemistry expertise. Thanks. John Nagle (talk) 09:15, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- I dropped them all notes. Hopefully one of them will pass the message on to their instructor, and she or he will get in touch with Helaine. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:57, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- My guess is that the usernames are all the word "nano" followed by the editor's initials. Nothing wrong with a group editing articles, though as usual we should make sure the edits are up to standards. As long as they're not POV-pushers, likely they just need to be pointed to WP:SCICITE and WP:MEDRS rather than accused of sockpuppetry. Antony–22 (⁄contribs) 06:18, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
Legal threat by 82.132.213.175
Notifying the IP's talk page of this discussion. ~Oshwah~ 13:52, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Done. ~Oshwah~ 13:55, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Let it go. It's on an experienced administrators' page and "sailing close to" is very different than sailing on to (especially if you're sailing on the downwind side of something.) NE Ent 13:58, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Hi, NE Ent - it's good to run into you again :D -- Yeah, I was questioning if making this ANI thread was the right thing to do or not. If it's skating pretty close to the edge, but isn't falling over, I'll humbly accept my ten lashings for the unnecessary thread and call it good - especially given the fact that it was left on an admin's talk page. I must be a lot more tired than I think I am. ~Oshwah~ 14:13, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Let it go. It's on an experienced administrators' page and "sailing close to" is very different than sailing on to (especially if you're sailing on the downwind side of something.) NE Ent 13:58, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
Blocked for legal threats. We don't "let it go" when it comes to legal threats. It is a legal threat even wrapped in words like "sailing very close to". It was clearly meant to intimidate. You were 100% correct to report this here, thank you. HighInBC 15:40, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- It definitely qualifies, and targeting an admin is not the smartest thing to do. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 16:01, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- In the legal threat, the editor identifed that they have a COI with some sources on articles relating to aviation. Can anyone identify the possible individual or is this just more smoke? —Farix (t | c) 17:56, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- After some digging, the block appeared to happen over a spat of vandalism at Badger and Clan Gunn from the same IP range. —Farix (t | c) 18:03, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Saying "I reserve the absolute right to be able to edit where my own research is incorrently inserted on your pages" pretty clearly indicates they don't understand how Misplaced Pages works, aside from everything else. At first I wondered if he was a certain past banned editor who was an aviation author, as there was a certain gut feeling from his style, but said fellow doesn't seem to have had the Ta 152 amongst his remit, so... - The Bushranger One ping only 10:15, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- HighInBC - Thank you. :-) ~Oshwah~ 03:59, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Admin attacking User:Oiyarbepsy for protecting new users
Nothing here requires admin tools. IP, there are no attacks or insults in the section you link, simply other editors civilly disagreeing with your view on userspace drafts. Ricky81682, agree we could possibly benefit from a definition of "editor who appears to have stopped editing" but reckon that is better discussed where you raised it at WT:User pages, as it's a community and not a janitorial decision. -- Euryalus (talk) 00:31, 6 December 2015 (UTC)- I'd like to add that I was disappointed to find this already close. I wanted to close it with the closing statement of "The result of the discussion was Nuts!" Oiyarbepsy (talk) 00:39, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:Oiyarbepsy keeps on getting attacked and insulted for trying to protect hate and terrifying nastiness against new users. Look at the attempts to protect user drafts at Wikipedia_talk:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion#G6_for_default_Article_Wizard_text and the complete ignorance shown by other editors as to why it's is utterly hateful towards yell, insult and destroy the good work of editors here. We need more eyes and votes to protect people from ripping to shred the hard work of alll editors and not subject them to admin bullying. How does unilaterally without notice deleting thousands of articles off the encyclopedia help anyone? 166.176.59.231 (talk) 23:22, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- I'm not seeing any attacks or insults. Ricky81682 is suggesting deleting pages like this, that is, pages with no content other than an AfC template. That's hardly destroying the "hard work" of editors. If Oiyarbepsy disagrees with the proposal, that's their right, just as it's Ricky's right to question them on their reasoning. clpo13(talk) 23:27, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- I also notified both Oiyarbepsy and Ricky81682 about this discussion as required. clpo13(talk) 23:29, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Well, Oiyarbepsy did agree that deleting those kinds of pages should be considered hateful for what it's worth. I think I'm the one being attacked but whatever. I'm asking for a proposal to add to CSD. If it's rejected, then we're back to today's status quo which is probably me just flooding MFD every single day. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 23:33, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- Deleting unnecessary stuff helps everyone because the growth of online data is that it's literally incomprehensible and unreadable by any individual. Misplaced Pages has value not only of because what it has, but because of what it doesn't. See apoptosis for the biological equivalent. NE Ent 23:45, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- This is another example of the deletionist lunacy that has driven editors off this project for years. We should be encouraging new editors not terrorizing them by having all their stuff deleted from beneath them. They was a legitimate alternative provided, move all these pages into separate categories so we would have "Blank drafts from November 2009, blank drafts from December 2009, etc. 166.171.120.75 (talk) 23:54, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- And editors can support either proposal. Getting upset and running to AN/I isn't productive. clpo13(talk) 23:58, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- it is when you want admins to stop the rampant mass genocide of tens of thousands of articles from users. The collective hundreds of thousands of hours of work creating this project could all be thrown away in an instant. Everyone here would agree that they would accept the full 46,000 old drafts out there rather than one possible, plausible article be deleted. How do you know that the singular 'blank' draft some editor started in 2009 couldn't have them return after a decade of inactivity and create our newest featured article? The risk is just too great . 166.176.59.146 (talk) 00:05, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- While I do appreciate a well done troll, you're totally overplaying "indignant," -- perhaps you'd like to move on now? NE Ent 00:07, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- (ec)Your the IP editor on a campaign to harass Ricky81682 about his clean up efforts. Using terms like "mass genocide" does tend to make editors not take your remarks very seriously. By the way Ricky81682 is mainly tagging articles. Others are deleting them. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 00:10, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- I thought that IP address looked familiar. I suppose it's just a coincidence that Ricky81682 is heavily involved in the topic this editor is banned from. clpo13(talk) 00:16, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- I'm like super-deletionist man here. AFD is for article that have made it, I'm killing them before they start so it's going to anger quite a few people, I'm aware of it. I still think this character is related to the Koch mess not the WOP anger I caused. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 00:22, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- I thought that IP address looked familiar. I suppose it's just a coincidence that Ricky81682 is heavily involved in the topic this editor is banned from. clpo13(talk) 00:16, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- it is when you want admins to stop the rampant mass genocide of tens of thousands of articles from users. The collective hundreds of thousands of hours of work creating this project could all be thrown away in an instant. Everyone here would agree that they would accept the full 46,000 old drafts out there rather than one possible, plausible article be deleted. How do you know that the singular 'blank' draft some editor started in 2009 couldn't have them return after a decade of inactivity and create our newest featured article? The risk is just too great . 166.176.59.146 (talk) 00:05, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- And editors can support either proposal. Getting upset and running to AN/I isn't productive. clpo13(talk) 23:58, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
- As an aside, I'd appreciate it is someone offered an opinion as to how long should a user be inactive to be considered inactive for their drafts. I've been opposed on all sorts of grounds because the editor "appears to have stopped editing" language is too vague. I mean, there's an argument at MFD over a nine year old single edit userspace copy of the "good version" of Super Mario 64 being opposed as premature so I really hope it isn't literally we have to wait a decade. -- Ricky81682 (talk)
Just want to make a comment after the close that this is part of the 166.x.x.x range that has been hounding Ricky81682 for the last few months. Blackmane (talk) 10:15, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
- The range was also topic banned from articles about long-living people. There's been regular trolling from that range, but my understandingis that the scope is too large to allow a range block. BMK (talk) 06:00, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- I've been thinking of putting together a ban proposal in my sandbox. I started browsing through the AN and ANI archives looking for other instances of this IP range. However, I've since discovered that the 166.17x.x.x addresses have been used by two other banned users, Ararat arev and David Beals (the umbrella vandal). This introduces quite a complication to my investigation. Blackmane (talk) 10:40, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
Acejet could be a sock of old blocked user Siddiqui
This case needs only behavioral analysis.
- I came across this user Marduking (Created on 18 March 2010) whose name is very similar to Mar4d (Created on 16 April 2010). Marduking has only 353 edits on English Misplaced Pages yet connects with Mar4d in 55 articles including many categories and one template.
- Siddiqui (Created on 9 December 2005) has 11,789 edits and connects with Mar4d in 1066 articles including 31 categories and one template
- AlphaGamma1991 (Created on 18 January 2010) has 5,718 edits connects with Mar4d in 702 articles including many categories
- Ata Fida Aziz with 1,822 edits connects in 323 articles including lists and categories
- Paknur with 1,476 edits connect 226 articles
- Mirza Barlas with 242 edits connects in 59 articles
- HamzaOmar with only 52 edits connects in 7 articles
- Last time when I suspected Mar4d was socking with Lyk4, I came to ANI instead of SPI and the result was fruitful as Wikimandia gave some extra evidence and Future Perfect at sunrise gave crucial evidence which only Administrators can see. After that Wikimandia filed SPI against Mar4d and the result was shocking.
- In this SPI back in 2011, it was found that Mar4d was using an alternate account but CU was not run as he accepted when the SPI was filed. He was left with a warning. This comment was made by HelloAnnyong:
- Sorry, I'm not buying it. You've had Drspaz since early June 2011. You're supposed to mark your accounts as being owned by you. But even besides that, you're clearly using the accounts for less than legitimate purposes. For example, at 5:40 Drspaz makes this edit. Five minutes later you make this one. Am I really supposed to believe that in those five minutes you were suddenly on a public connection? — User:HelloAnnyong 02:45, 2 September 2011 (UTC)-----copy pasted-----
- Acejet (Created on 13 March 2009) Siddiqui and Acejet---- Siddiqui and Lyk4.
SPI where it all began
- Moonriddengirl found credible evidence The accounts were considered stale and Mar4d was not connected.
- Why Acejet was not caught? First CU check for Siddiqui was made in July 2010. Acejet made this edit on 21 April 2010. After that he stopped editing for months and edited on 6 January 2011.
- Mar4d admitted that he has office accounts. Most likely scenario is that when Check Users were checking Siddiqui socks, at that time Mar4d and Lyk4 were being operated from office.
The Avengers 01:14, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- Good finding, I have no doubt here. D4iNa4 (talk) 13:28, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- Administrators can see the details and if this is correct, then they must be re-tagged as Siddiqui socks.The Avengers 14:16, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- But still the appropriate place to report this is SPI. You just need to post this information there. —Мандичка 😜 10:28, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- Administrators can see the details and if this is correct, then they must be re-tagged as Siddiqui socks.The Avengers 14:16, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Repeated deletion of Copyvio notice
A week ago, I deleted some copyvios on the Nazi architecture page. Most of them included a source reference at the end, but no indication that it was a direct quotation, nor where it began and ended. It turns out that they were much longer than the "brief quotations" allowed by WP:COPYVIO. Some investigation showed that these passages (and many more) had been added by two users 10 years ago; also that the initial version of the article was a large block of unsourced text. Even today, most of the text of the article seems to come from these three suspicious sources. I documented this in Talk:Nazi architecture and tagged the article with db-copyvio. User:MER-C changed this to Copyviocore and listed the article on Misplaced Pages:Copyright problems/2015 November 29.
Since then, User:IQ125 has removed the template three times:
- IQ125 removed the Copyviocore template.
- I reverted, with Edit comment:
- (a) you have restored some of the known copy vios; b) this is not correct procedure.. you need to discuss; c) it doesn't matter how many editors have contributed if most of the text is derivative of copy vios
- IQ125 again removed the Copyviocore template (and restored copyvio content I had removed).
- I wrote him on his Talk page, explaining in more detail that this was not an appropriate action, and restored the Copyviocore template.
- IQ125 again removed the notice.
- IQ125 appears not to understand our policies, so I wrote him a final explanation on his talk page, but did not revert.
Nazi architecture (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) I'd appreciate it if an administrator would clarify to him our policies on Copyvio and on removing Copyvio templates. --Macrakis (talk) 02:26, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- I have restored the copyvio template and warned the user. I will be watching this as it unfolds. Callmemirela 🍁 {Talk} ♑ 02:55, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Claudia Kishi
BOOMERANG OP blocked for one week by Berean Hunter. (non-admin closure) Erpert 03:30, 8 December 2015 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Checkuser Claudia Kishi
It will show you it is
User:Ariel_Flyer
User:Mallory_Pike
99.192.9.116
It is all linked to User:Kagome_85 who is perma banned.
This user has multiple accounts which is against the Misplaced Pages rules
As I said checkuser
156.57.88.131 (talk) 04:20, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- You're looking for WP:SPI. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:53, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Punitive Block
Discussion moved to AN. NE Ent 09:56, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
User:Khodr_Addam COI
No admin action required. (non-admin closure) Kleuske (talk) 12:54, 7 December 2015 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hello, I chose to do this anonymously because i know the person in question personally and I wouldn't like this to turn in to something personal. Dr. Addam is a dentist without proper botany training who is self published. Now he is inserting links to his work on wikipedia. I am not aware how wikipedia tolerates this kind of edits and if the works he is citing would be acceptable if he wasn't inserting them himself. Regards. -212.28.245.164 (talk) 10:43, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- Whether or not Addam has a formal education in botany is irrelevant; what matters is whether the material he's adding is verifiable. It looks like the references he is adding are to a predatory, pay-to-publish journal. (It's on Beall's list, at any rate.) Almost certainly not a reliable source; the references should be removed irrespective of any COI. —Psychonaut (talk) 11:11, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment) I see ample evidence of a user who does not know how to add cites, who hasn't been welcomed (blank talk page) and who wasn't notified of this discussion. I've done that for you. All the evidence suggests a noob and, frankly, I don't think WP:ANI is an appropriate venue to welcome newbies. If you know him personally, why not simply have a private chat to explain your concerns? Kleuske (talk) 11:18, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- Agreed. With friends like that, who needs enemies? EEng (talk) 11:25, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- Make that back stabbing enemies, "with friends like these, who needs backstabbing enemies".FreeatlastChitchat (talk) 12:41, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- To be fair... The complainant did not claim they are friends... Kleuske (talk) 12:57, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- Make that back stabbing enemies, "with friends like these, who needs backstabbing enemies".FreeatlastChitchat (talk) 12:41, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- Agreed. With friends like that, who needs enemies? EEng (talk) 11:25, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- @EEng: your comment is out of place. I never said Dr. Addam was a friend of mine and I don't want to walk him through editing here because he wouldn't accept my guidance. I know his ego and I wish you @EEng: and @FreeatlastChitchat: good luck with that endeavor and Fuck you very much -212.28.245.164 (talk) 12:57, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
User:Choor monster WP:NPA/WP:AGF
(non-admin closure) Content dispute. I don't see anything here that can't be settled on the article's talk page, or that rises to the level of needing admin intervention, but if an admin feels otherwise, please feel free to re-open or take action. BMK (talk) 03:05, 8 December 2015 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Choor monster (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been persistently violating WP:NPA/WP:AGF, characterizing good faith disagreements as "trolling" or "lying": , , , , . I've asked him to stop: , , . (Diff after last warning). Other editors have stepped in to revert grossly uncivil edits to the talk page: , . Sławomir
Biały 11:21, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- Riemann hypothesis (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Background 1: In late July of this year a certain editor (I'll call him D, I note he is not getting himself involved, so I see no point in archiving his role here) introduced unsuitable material into the article. It was about a certain mathematician had uploaded his 2015, version number umpteen-whatever, of his claimed proof of RH. We are not NEWS, this is not a FORUM, etc. It's self-published, primary, and until the mathematical community takes note of it and says something about it in an RS, does not belong here. Since the only reference provided was the SPS itself, I reverted. D put it back, I reverted, and at some point D put it back with a claimed source, which led to this thread Talk:Riemann hypothesis#Sarnak official Clay Math statement on RH. The source in question is known as Sarnak 2005 (but originally it was discussed with the wrong year, which I later fixed). D then cited four sources, and I pointed out what they all talked about was nothing beyond 2004, and using them to justify a WP statement about a 2015 preprint is ridiculous. D then settled for a less sweeping statement, one that was in accordance with RS. At this point, Slawek joined in, stating he thinks it's notable, and I patiently explained that his personal evaluation of an SPS primary is not relevant. Slawek more or less asked for a rehash of everything, for no reason I could discern.
- Background 2: Somebody made the news all over with an implausible claim to have proven RH, leading to this thread Talk:Riemann hypothesis#In the news: Dr. Opeyemi Enoch of Nigeria. In the course of multiple editors explaining why no, this is not going in the article, someone suggested somebody buy a copy of the alleged proof (apparently the only way to get a copy) and extract the good bits for the article. This was shot down, and in part of the various explanations why this won't happen, D mentioned that it was for sale and thus not an RS. I pointed out that WP:PAYWALL says this is irrelevant, and after a round or two of not getting it, D let it go, at which point Slawek jumped in, rather incompetently. He even quoted the portion of PAYWALL that says this is not a problem, I pointed out this is not an issue, and Slawek got wilder and wilder, doubling down on defending his obvious mistake, and making ridiculous exaggerations and implications regarding what I was saying, for example, mocking me for apparently claiming "existence" was not required of an RS. Pure obnoxious trash talk on his part, serious case of WP:IDHT, and I called him on it: troll.
- Background 3: Slawek also referred inaccurately to the June exchange described above, and I corrected that. At this point he went off the deep end, inventing an entirely fictional version of what happened, that I had removed RS-based material, to wit, Sarnak 2005. He even linked to a diff, documenting that I had not done what he claimed, but he couldn't bother to acknowledge this. I pointed out this was not true, that the link did not support his statement, and again, he doubled down on defending his obvious mistake. At this point I called him on it: liar. The sheer chuztpah of his willfully not trying to be accurate is amazing. His final response begins with him stating his "understanding" of what happened, and then just spins out his fictional version. An "understanding" is how one summarizes what some editor who is no longer here did five years ago and why that caused trouble and it's just simply too much work to track down in some far flung place for so little gain. It is something one backs off from when someone who was actually there and remembers what happened tells you otherwise. And in this case, when the history is right there in front of you, in a known location, with the participants all present, there is absolutely no excuse for engaging in such a fuzzy enterprise.
- See WP:IUC (part of WP:CIVIL policy), paragraph 2, item d). In its entirety, it identifies "lying" as uncivil behavior. See also paragraph 1, item c), which objects to "ill-considered accusations of impropriety". There is nothing GF about someone who repeatedly says black is white when the exact words are available, quoted at him, by him, and blithely ignored. I see serious WP:CIR issues.
- I'll note my accusations are well-considered. Of all the links Slawek provided, none of them include the bit where I allegedly deleted Sarnak 2005 and an RS-backed addition. Choor monster (talk) 18:20, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- "Choor monster", yes the record is really there for all to see. You removed reference to de Branges' 2005 preprint. I pointed this out. Now you've accused me of lying, trolling, and (now) incompetence for pointing out this removal (diffs above, but you've conveniently repeated most of it in this wall of text).
- But I don't really think the fine points of our disagreement are relevant here. As regards content, I would say it is really an honest misunderstanding. This is not a misunderstanding that you have made any attempt to make right, since you have failed to assume good faith. Instead you chose to characterize another editor as an incompetent lying troll, along with a host of other personal adjectives. This is behavior that you continue to defend here, trying to justify it through wikilawyering.
- I think the fact that Choor monster not only doesn't acknowledge that his behavior here is a gross violation of WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL, but actually defends this violation (and apparently doesn't believe in WP:AGF at all) suggests that some administrative remedy is appropriate. I don't see any evidence that this disruption is likely to abate (see recent history of Talk:Riemann hypothesis). Sławomir
Biały 20:31, 7 December 2015 (UTC)- Your diff above is to my removal of the 2015 de Branges preprint SPS reference, as you could have bothered to notice, and as I have been telling you repeatedly. As it is, you have now changed your tune, before you accused me repeatedly of removing the Sarnak 2005 RS reference. You are having a good deal of difficulty keeping your story straight. You're just wasting my time, and anyone bothering to read this. Choor monster (talk) 22:19, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- The emphasis here is not on content, but on your behavior. If you feel that I was referring to Sarnak's 2005 preprint instead of content that you did remove, perhaps a better way to get clarification would be to ask for clarification in a civil way rather than call the other editor a troll, a liar, and now (apparently) incompetent. Misunderstandings do happen. Your first apparent reply to this misunderstanding is "You really are a shameless troll", and your next reply contains the sentence "That you continue to point-blank ignore and deny the utter obvious, and then lie about it, whether it's explicitly stated policy/guideline regarding pay sources (above) or the utter impossibility of a 2005 source saying anything meaningful about a 2015 preprint, is the hallmark of trolling." Your next reply contained an accusation of lying (and more trolling): "You are also lying when you say I claimed it could not be improved... Maybe you can acknowledge this point already? Instead of trolling?" (I'm really astonished at this characterization, since you had said earlier "...it was impossible for me to improve it." But this is clearly another misunderstanding.) Every single one of your comments in that thread was an obvious personal attack. I don't think that puts you in a position to complain that the other editor didn't resolve your misunderstanding of what they were saying. In any case, I'm sure you would have made bullying comments no matter what I said. Sławomir
Biały 22:40, 7 December 2015 (UTC)- My first comment to your accusation that I removed the Sarnak 2005 reference was to point out that I did not do so, pure and simple. There was nothing to clarify, it was simply false. The correct response would be to withdraw your accusation, and apologize. Instead, you responded by repeating your accusation, along with a diff that clearly showed I did not do that. There is absolutely no excuse for that kind of deceitful behavior on your part. It was bad enough you repeated your nonsense, but then you pretended you actually had a link? That is what got the "shameless troll" comment. Instead of waking up, you just kept barreling along with your false accusations that I removed the Sarnak 2005 RS. And, yes, you lied again when you said I said something that I never said. It's simple, OK? Choor monster (talk) 23:04, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- I said that you removed reference to the "evolving preprint", and I attempted to clarify this ("That is, you removed not just the link to the latest revision, but the sentence mentioning the claimed proof.") The diff I gave clearly shows this. Anyway, the details are irrelevant. I'm claiming we have a misunderstanding, which happens. You could have calmly corrected me or asked for clarification. Instead, you immediately accused me of trolling and lying, and you continue the personal attacks despite warnings. Even here, you continue to accuse me of deliberate deception (no idea who I would be trying to deceive—newsflash: no one cares!) What's clear is that the personal attacks must stop. If you need to be blocked before that happens, so be it. Sławomir
Biały 23:35, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- I said that you removed reference to the "evolving preprint", and I attempted to clarify this ("That is, you removed not just the link to the latest revision, but the sentence mentioning the claimed proof.") The diff I gave clearly shows this. Anyway, the details are irrelevant. I'm claiming we have a misunderstanding, which happens. You could have calmly corrected me or asked for clarification. Instead, you immediately accused me of trolling and lying, and you continue the personal attacks despite warnings. Even here, you continue to accuse me of deliberate deception (no idea who I would be trying to deceive—newsflash: no one cares!) What's clear is that the personal attacks must stop. If you need to be blocked before that happens, so be it. Sławomir
- My first comment to your accusation that I removed the Sarnak 2005 reference was to point out that I did not do so, pure and simple. There was nothing to clarify, it was simply false. The correct response would be to withdraw your accusation, and apologize. Instead, you responded by repeating your accusation, along with a diff that clearly showed I did not do that. There is absolutely no excuse for that kind of deceitful behavior on your part. It was bad enough you repeated your nonsense, but then you pretended you actually had a link? That is what got the "shameless troll" comment. Instead of waking up, you just kept barreling along with your false accusations that I removed the Sarnak 2005 RS. And, yes, you lied again when you said I said something that I never said. It's simple, OK? Choor monster (talk) 23:04, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- The emphasis here is not on content, but on your behavior. If you feel that I was referring to Sarnak's 2005 preprint instead of content that you did remove, perhaps a better way to get clarification would be to ask for clarification in a civil way rather than call the other editor a troll, a liar, and now (apparently) incompetent. Misunderstandings do happen. Your first apparent reply to this misunderstanding is "You really are a shameless troll", and your next reply contains the sentence "That you continue to point-blank ignore and deny the utter obvious, and then lie about it, whether it's explicitly stated policy/guideline regarding pay sources (above) or the utter impossibility of a 2005 source saying anything meaningful about a 2015 preprint, is the hallmark of trolling." Your next reply contained an accusation of lying (and more trolling): "You are also lying when you say I claimed it could not be improved... Maybe you can acknowledge this point already? Instead of trolling?" (I'm really astonished at this characterization, since you had said earlier "...it was impossible for me to improve it." But this is clearly another misunderstanding.) Every single one of your comments in that thread was an obvious personal attack. I don't think that puts you in a position to complain that the other editor didn't resolve your misunderstanding of what they were saying. In any case, I'm sure you would have made bullying comments no matter what I said. Sławomir
- Your diff above is to my removal of the 2015 de Branges preprint SPS reference, as you could have bothered to notice, and as I have been telling you repeatedly. As it is, you have now changed your tune, before you accused me repeatedly of removing the Sarnak 2005 RS reference. You are having a good deal of difficulty keeping your story straight. You're just wasting my time, and anyone bothering to read this. Choor monster (talk) 22:19, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Reported to me by an IP: Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Mrwallace05 new users
Originally reported to me on my talk page, I thought I'd post this here:
- "New users, NickiMinaj4life and 86.133.178.209 are obviously abusing accounts of Mrwallace05. 123.136.111.59 (talk) 11:27, 7 December 2015 (UTC)"
However, they haven't provided any evidence for this in terms of diffs, so it can't yet be added to Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Mrwallace05.
-- The Anome (talk) 11:44, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Talk page move mess
Dealt with by NeilN. (non-admin closure) Erpert 03:26, 8 December 2015 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
User:Arundalmia has twice moved his user talk page to Arun Dalmia in main space. It contains useful history dating back a month concerning prior warnings etc, but is now flagged for speedy deletion A7 in its present location. Simply moving it over the redirect isn't an option, as new warnings have been added there. Can the article's edit history be merged back into his talk page, perhaps moving its current contents to a user subpage? I've temporarily removed the A7 speedy tag while this mess gets sorted out. Thanks, Norvoid (talk) 12:51, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks User:NeilN for fixing this. Norvoid (talk) 14:31, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- You're welcome. History merge performed (correctly, I hope) and user indef blocked with an explanatory note as this is an ongoing problem. --NeilN 14:35, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Cross-wiki vandalism
Since we now seem to have stopped him from making dubious edits to enwiki using the edit filter, it looks like User:Léogâne Paix has been on a cross-wiki editing spree, editing fr:Léogâne, ht:Leyogàn (komin), it:Léogâne and pl:Léogâne to add a dubious flag and even more dubious information in infoboxes. I don't speak all these languages, or know their internal procedures -- how on earth does one go about dealing with this sort of cross-wiki vandalism? Is there some sort of global edit filter, or global blocklist? -- The Anome (talk) 14:22, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- For global blocks, talk to the stewards. Jonathunder (talk) 15:08, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- I've just done so. See meta:Steward requests/Global. User:Léogâne Paix's mixture of editing via a mixture of IPs and multiple usernames across multiple wikis makes them a difficult case, though. The only thing that's really been really effective has been the edit filter. -- The Anome (talk) 19:18, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
User:McBurgertown
User blocked. GAB 01:25, 8 December 2015 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I'm requesting that an admin block McBurgertown because he is a vandalism only account. I haven't taken this to WP:AIAV due to the lack of sufficient warnings. Tony Abigail (talk) 14:23, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment) @Tony Abigail: I've reported to WP:AIV as a blatant vandalism-only account -- samtar 14:45, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- McBurgertown has been blocked indefinitely. Tony Abigail (talk) 17:48, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
User attacking other editors; ongoing non-encyclopedic content
Please take a look at the behavior of User:Jack DeMattos. He is a professional writer who's been on WP since June 1, 2015. I've tried to make him feel welcome and given him lots of room to match his flowery, editorial, magazine style writing to WP encyclopedic style, but he's not making much progress. Now he's begun to arbitrarily delete from articles all images another user has uploaded added and leave personal attacks in his edit summaries, like this: "Removed obviously bogus photo supposed to be Charles E. Bassett. This is yet another unfortunate example submitted by a serial purveyor of photo photos of Wild West figures. This person is single handedly turning Wipipedia into 'Wackypedia." His comment is really ironic, because his contributions are pretty much in the same category. Instances of comments like this in his edit summaries include this one, another, one more, and another.
He's leaving his flowery footprints and non-sourced content all over the Old West articles. In the past week this has included Pat Garrett; Bill Tilghman; Bat Masterson; and Billy the Kid.
Oon Friday 4 December he made big changes to Bill Tilghman and removed hatnotes about the article quality that he had not fixed, but added to; over the weekend he was hitting Billy the Kid; the latter article is quite a mess now. His references can't be authenticated by anyone because he doesn't leave proper citations. In some instances his refs aren't refs, but footnotes full of ancillary info not pertinent to the article, like references numbered 1, 3-8, 21, 22, 24-28, 30, and 31 in Bill Tilghman. Everyplace he goes, another editor needs to follow behind and clean up his contributions, if only someone had the time. You can see all his contributions here.
Other editors have taken his behavior to the Admin noticeboard twice before (here and here), and he's promised to do better, but he really doesn't appear to be listening. The help he's been offered, his actions in return, and the warnings given, etc, are summarized in several posts on his Talk page. I don't feel like he's giving any heed to the praise, direction, encouragement OR warnings I've left on his talk page.
I'm running out of patience and his contributions are becoming more of detriment than a help. I think it may be time for a short block to get his attention. Your input is most warmly welcomed. — btphelps 22:49, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
- Good grief. Billy the Kid is nearly unreadable, and the Tilghman article is almost as bad. Thinking about reverting his changes completely. Not a big fan of MOS blocks, but if he's not getting the message, maybe it's time. This is damaging the encyclopedia. Katie 01:20, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
Jack DeMattos has deleted photos that I and others have contributed to wiki without even asking if there is provenance or substantial evidence. He seems to believe that he is the only one that can contribute to the pages about the people he writes about. Some of the comments he made regarding photos from an important Old West collection: "Deleted bogus photo. Once again this has been submitted by a person with a track record with offering phony photos to Misplaced Pages articles.this is not, nor ever will be, one of them." Being a published historian does not automatically make one experienced at identifying historical people. True West, Jack Demattos and several other top published writers recently made a fool of themselves when they gave their negative opinions on the latest possible Billy the Kid photograph before the program about it aired on National Geographic. The show revealed fantastic evidence that gave the photo a very high percentage of being Billy and his friends. Since then, the owners and the filmmaker have established provenance for the photo and will be airing their findings soon in another program. The producer/owner of the film company has shown excited interest in the photos from this same collection that Jack has declared as bogus. Jack DeMattos should not be allowed to decide what is or isn't correct for the public's number one information resource. OSMOND PHILLIPS (talk) 03:00, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- This is the third time this same issue has been brought here. This user does not seem to be getting it. They have gotten a lot of advice but don't seem to be taking it. That sort of text is more suited to a cheap western paperback story than an encyclopedia. HighInBC 06:25, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- Which editor are you referring to, the OP or the subject of the complaint? BMK (talk) 07:49, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- He means the subject of the complaint. DeMattos has been here several times for the same issues. Anyway, I did some emergency copy edits to Bill Tilghman and added two sources. I guess it's a little better now, though one of the sources I added should probably be replaced by a better one, as it's a primary source written by Tilghman's widow. It'll do for now, though. I don't want to follow this guy around and perform copy edits on all the articles he edits, but it seems like there should be some way to retain his expertise. I don't know. If he won't change, I guess maybe something does need to be done. I'd prefer some kind of mentorship or something, but I hear those often end disastrously. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 08:43, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- Which editor are you referring to, the OP or the subject of the complaint? BMK (talk) 07:49, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
Request block for edit warring troll
User blocked. GAB 01:48, 8 December 2015 (UTC)The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Merry christmas and happy new year (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is edit warring to repeatedly reinsert trolling material (9 times at this point) at the Science Reference Desk (page history). Troll has been given a final warning. Please block. EdChem (talk) 01:44, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- There's already an AIV report sitting there. GAB 01:47, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
Disruptive edits from previously blocked user
Reporting Bigbaby23. Previously blocked editor keeps inserting grammar errors, punctuation errors, and peacock language into Holly Holm, a BLP (1, 2, 3, 4). Violation of 3RR as well. User continually ignores attempts at communication and ignores the policies cited while resorting to name calling in edit summaries. -- James26 (talk) 05:56, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- BoomerangBigbaby23 (talk) 06:23, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- No, I'm afraid that's not how that works. --Tarage (talk) 07:06, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- Unless I'm missing something, I don't see myself violating the three-revert rule within a 24-hour period on the page's history. You have, though. -- James26 (talk) 07:22, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- I was referring to Bigbaby23, not you James. He clearly needs a time out. --Tarage (talk) 08:23, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- My comment was directed at him as well. Yes, a time out would do some good. -- James26 (talk) 08:42, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- I was referring to Bigbaby23, not you James. He clearly needs a time out. --Tarage (talk) 08:23, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- Unless I'm missing something, I don't see myself violating the three-revert rule within a 24-hour period on the page's history. You have, though. -- James26 (talk) 07:22, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- No, I'm afraid that's not how that works. --Tarage (talk) 07:06, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- My comment meant, that I am tired of editors pushing their agenda with bulshit citation of policy aka gaming the system. There is no peacock language, he doesnt care about punctuation etc. He is a Ronda Rousey fan that has been gutted inside by her humiliating loss. The lead in the article is well cited and creates interest for the reader to read on.By Boomerang I meant not only should James 6 not be rewarded with this editorial behaviour, but punished for it. It's jerks like him that make me want to stop contributing to wikipedia.Bigbaby23 (talk) 09:02, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- And 'what' a loss that would be... --Tarage (talk) 09:11, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- Bigbaby23 - You may want to retract the personal attack in your statement there. - The Bushranger One ping only 11:16, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- BoomerangBigbaby23 (talk) 06:23, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
Legal Threat
User 2005 has an implied legal threat posted on their talk page. Under the heading 'No Drama/Stalker Free Zone' it says:
"Please do not add soap opera or other personal drama content to this page as it will only be removed."
And then:
"The Wikimedia Foundation is located in California. California Penal Code § 653 makes it a crime with a penalty of up to one year in jail for any person to use electronic communication with intent to annoy or harass."
It's clear this is an implied legal threat intended for anybody who violates the first sentence. As such it is against Misplaced Pages policy.
Popcorntastesgood (talk) 07:23, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- A weak threat at best Popcorntastesgood - @User 2005: would you consider removing this text? -- samtar 07:36, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- I'd also recommend removing it. I'm unaware of the background of either user or how they relate to one another, but offhand I can say that putting this on your talk page does not make you seem like an easy person to approach and will immediately put other users on the defensive because they don't know how you will interpret what they say. It might be a weak threat, but it can still be seen as a threat by other users that you may pursue legal action. You might not actually do anything, but it can still make it difficult to really work with other people. Tokyogirl79 (。◕‿◕。) 08:28, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- Popcorntastesgood is a sockpuppet of the many times blocked stalker Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet_investigations/DegenFarang. 2005 (talk) 08:28, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- I have no idea what you're talking about but it appears you've just admitted to threatening an editor. Popcorntastesgood (talk) 08:42, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- And regardless that is not something that should be on your talk page, or on anyone else's, ever. - The Bushranger One ping only 11:15, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
Personal Attack with clear intent to cause distruption
User:@DreamGuy: with this -edit and this edit with the summary maybe someone with a clear head can say if what you say is true are clearly intended to inflame a situation previously listed here at AN/I after probably but not yet rejected from arbcom and goad me into an edit war. I ask someone intervenes. Gnangarra 07:23, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- I can say with great confidence -- as anyone who follows ArbCom should be able to -- that the case will be rejected, as it's clearly not arbitration worthy at this point. I don't see an NPA in Dream Guy's comment, but I do see in your edit a failure to get the message aimed at you from the previous discussion here, which is that your judgment in this controversy has not been the best. As an WP:INVOLVED admin, you really shouldn't be editing these post cards out of articles -- leave it to others who are not entangled to decide. (Which is also, I believe, Dream Guy's point.) That you, an admin, see this as a "Personal Attack with clear intent to cause distruption" is a bit disconcerting. BMK (talk) 07:47, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
Harassment on Talk:Historiography of the British Empire
For two weeks I have been harassed daily by User:Snowded and his close ally User:Wiki-Ed. I've had enough: the allegations are all false but they come tumbling out: 1) Nov 24: "There is little or nothing to do with Historiography in this article. Instead we de facto have a partial and pos version of the main British Empire article. It needs radical pruning to get back to the subject or possibly deletion". Nov 24: Snowded alleged WP:OR and WP:OWN. Nov 24: Snowded wrote: "The material here does not match the title, it is a partial POV perspective on the British Empire. As such it is a coat rack article for material which would not survive scrutiny at British Empire." Nov 25: Wiki-Ed writes: "Snowded is correct, this is a coatrack article: it should be discussing the historiography of the British Empire; instead it seems to be an interpretation of the British Empire, thinly disguised as a (very partial) review of certain sources." etc etc, they never stop. I have repeatedly rejected and demonstrated their claims are false. They seem to believe I have a secret POV agenda, Which I deny. I've written a lot of books and articles and scholarly venues, but I've not published anything about the British Empire and have no secret agenda. I repeatedly demand proof or evidence, or even which section is at fault. They repeatedly refuse to answer--Dec 8: Rjensen: "Which paragraph demonstrates unacceptable POV?" Snowded: "Better to start with the overall structure, then look at individual paragraphs." This is sustained harassment by two editors who have never edited Historiography of the British Empire, which has been active since Oct 2008, and which overlaps very little with the article they try to protect British Empire. Other editors on the page have largely supported me, not these two. I request User:Snowded and his close ally User:Wiki-Ed by kept away from Talk:Historiography of the British Empire. Rjensen (talk) 08:30, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- Several editors have expressed concern that Riensen is building an alternative article to the British Empire one under the guise of historiography. Hence the issue of the need to deal first with the whole structure not paragraph by paragraph within his structure. The comments he has made about the inadequacies of the British Empire article support the view that this may be a coatrack. When this started I asked Riensen for his authority for the structure and he quoted two sources, one of which is suitable. However he would not share the detailed contents so I have bought the book and said clearly on the talk page that I will check that against the structure and come back with a proposal for change later this week. That has resulted in a torrent of personal abuse and a refusal to simply wait and see. No one is harassing Rjensen, no changes have yet been made to the article. He daily (well hourly and more stridently as the day does on) launches at attacks on the talk page to which I have tried to respond politely. I for one am trying to engage him on the talk page but that is very difficult given his clearly expressed contempt for editors who do not share his academic qualifications. In respect of the quote where he says that he has " repeatedly rejected and demonstrated their claims are false" I invite third party review. He states that the claims areas false and asserts that he has included multiple views but he has yet to address the main objection namely that an article on historiography should be about that, not a collection of statements from historians organised into (his words) an eclectic structure. When there are concrete proposals for change on the talk page then he can respond and I expect we will have an RFC and possibly dispute resolution before this is over. For the moment the only possible community action is to ask Rjensen to stop his multiple personal attacks. This is not even a content dispute yet and the fact he has brought it here illustrates the problem :-) ----Snowded 08:41, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- Snowded has never made a substantive edit on this article (and very few on British Empire article). I believe he has not been familiar with the historiography of the British Empire or even the word itself. Instead he tags the article and says that as soon as he reads a book he will propose sweeping changes. In my opinion he is primarily motivated to protect the other article British Empire. It is not under threat, for there is little overlap and it reaches a very different audience. The historiography article was created in October 2008 & has caused no serious controversy until 2 weeks ago, when Snowded tagged it as POV WP:COATRACK and WP:POVFORK. He says the problem is "structure" but has been unable to explain what he means. He says he will explain himself later but keeps the tags to delegitimize the article. On 12:53, 5 December 2015 Qexigator tried to remove them with the edit summary: "the tags have been sufficiently discussed to show that they are not correct, please do not needlessly or casually encourage disruption." Rjensen (talk) 08:59, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- Oexigator's removal of the tags was reverted twice by another experienced user namely User:Wee Curry Monster with the comment "discussions are ongoing and valid concerns remain - edit warring over tags you should know better)" The reason for the tags has been clearly explained, what will come later this week is a assessment of Rjensen's source and a proposal for a way forward. Not sure why he can't wait ----Snowded 09:21, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- Snowded has never made a substantive edit on this article (and very few on British Empire article). I believe he has not been familiar with the historiography of the British Empire or even the word itself. Instead he tags the article and says that as soon as he reads a book he will propose sweeping changes. In my opinion he is primarily motivated to protect the other article British Empire. It is not under threat, for there is little overlap and it reaches a very different audience. The historiography article was created in October 2008 & has caused no serious controversy until 2 weeks ago, when Snowded tagged it as POV WP:COATRACK and WP:POVFORK. He says the problem is "structure" but has been unable to explain what he means. He says he will explain himself later but keeps the tags to delegitimize the article. On 12:53, 5 December 2015 Qexigator tried to remove them with the edit summary: "the tags have been sufficiently discussed to show that they are not correct, please do not needlessly or casually encourage disruption." Rjensen (talk) 08:59, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- This is a clear case of harassment. In view of the discussion complained of by Rjensen, I repeat here: "Let me remind anyone who has not read the whole of the discussion, or who has forgotten, an earlier comment (of mine) there that the discussion has been more about a particular revisionist point of view than improving the article, on the part of a commenter who asserted ...any humanities degree allows an intelligent commentary on the difference between a history and an article about theories/practices of history. But that depends on the quality or character of the teacher and of the graduand, and no academic degree ensures a balanced understanding of editing in general, editing a Wikipdia article, or editing an article such as this one. So far, I have seen (in the discusion) an unwarranted degree of aggression and inability to attempt to understand the validity of another editor's explanation for the content of the article as we now have it. The comment (by the harassing party): You are going to have to learn to work with editors who are not professional historians and show a little more respect if we are going to get anywhere would reflect very badly on its author if it were not simply risible. Qexigator (talk) 09:12, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
Troll at Talk:November 2015 Paris attacks
Identified a new editor who's stated purpose and only edits are summed up as "Without a criticism section, elaborating on the opinion that the event (Paris terrorist attacks) was a hoax". See their user page where they clearly state their intention User:Justitia_Nai and their generally trollish edits all to the talk page Special:Contributions/Justitia_Nai. I don't think they are here to build the encyclopedia. Legacypac (talk) 09:04, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- They want a criticism section added. That's not trolling. I take it you don't want a criticism section? Branding a new user you disagree with a troll is not very constructive. Popcorntastesgood (talk) 10:22, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- There's many eyes already on that article. It is subject to active community sanctions as noted on the talk page. Any impropriety will be efficiently dealt with. -- œ 10:31, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- Criticism is not the same as introducing WP:FRINGE theories that the event was a hoax. —Мандичка 😜 10:35, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- If you disagree with them, discuss it on talk pages. Disagreement doesn't mean they are trolling nor is it a reason to block them. Popcorntastesgood (talk) 11:38, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- Clearly the recent Paris Terrorist Attacks are not a HOAX - hence this user is trolling with a Single Purpose Acct. Legacypac (talk) 10:43, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- And considering they wanted to use this and this as sources...well that says a lot. - The Bushranger One ping only 11:09, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- Yeah these are everywhere. Whenever a mass shooting/terrorist attack happens, there are immediately people posting videos and articles with fake photos and witnesses to claim it's all a government hoax. Trutherism seems to be a cottage industry guaranteed to make money off YouTube hits and Google hits because of the sheep who believe everything they read. Excuse me now, I'm going to go make an outraged video about how the World Series didn't happen and it's all a hoax. —Мандичка 😜 11:26, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- Maybe one about how that wasn't really Kyle Busch winning the Sprint Cup when he came back from his injury might do even better! - The Bushranger One ping only 11:31, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- Yeah these are everywhere. Whenever a mass shooting/terrorist attack happens, there are immediately people posting videos and articles with fake photos and witnesses to claim it's all a government hoax. Trutherism seems to be a cottage industry guaranteed to make money off YouTube hits and Google hits because of the sheep who believe everything they read. Excuse me now, I'm going to go make an outraged video about how the World Series didn't happen and it's all a hoax. —Мандичка 😜 11:26, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- And considering they wanted to use this and this as sources...well that says a lot. - The Bushranger One ping only 11:09, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
- Criticism is not the same as introducing WP:FRINGE theories that the event was a hoax. —Мандичка 😜 10:35, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
User:STSC and WP:NOTHERE
STSC (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is basically a pusher of the POV of the viewpoint of the government of the People's Republic of China. Almost every edit done by this user is misleading, with misleading edit summaries (such as using the edit summary "ce" while censoring negative information about the PRC government or other related topics, subtle changes to the text that affects the meanings, removal of sourced content, etc. As an example, what is this?) Really, almost every single edit by this user is problematic; search the archives for previous discussion about this user. This has been a long-term issue; editors have been frustrated with this user's refusal to discuss or cooperate, or even left because of this user. Often when other editors revert POV-pushing edits by STSC, STSC reports these users to WP:3RRNO. STSC has been warned frequently in the past, and has a history of blocks and topic bans. I think that an indef block may be appropriate in this situation. Pinging Citobun, Signedzzz, and Ohconfucius, who are more familiar with this editor than I am. sst✈ 12:10, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
Category: