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Revision as of 06:04, 29 December 2015

Longevity B‑class Top‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Longevity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the World's oldest people on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LongevityWikipedia:WikiProject LongevityTemplate:WikiProject LongevityLongevity B This article has been rated as B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the importance scale.

Text and/or other creative content from this version of List of oldest living people was copied or moved into Oldest people with this edit on 2015 December 23. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

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Semi-protected edit request on 29 October 2015

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"live longer then men" should be changed to "live longer than men"

99.241.102.71 (talk) 17:39, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

@99.241.102.71:  Done NottNott talk|contrib 17:40, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

I recommend that the phrasing be changed to "women live longer than men, on average".--184.58.31.41 (talk) 22:43, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

 Done. I agree, it also corresponds better with the section it links to. Gap9551 (talk) 22:47, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

Lucy Hannah a fraud actual age 97

Lucy Hannah is a complete fraud and the GRG knows it. They refuse to remove her even though there is overwhelming evidence she was an impostor who took another persons identity to claim government benefits early. Age 117 no way. Age 97 is the correct age at death. Come on GRG own up to this and remove her. It is insulting to have a fraud in the top 10. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.18.49.5 (talk) 21:20, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Proposed merge with List of oldest living people

Oldest people has long had an arbitrary Top 10 list of this article, which itself is a roughly Top 50 list of oldest people. This creates an unnecessary duplication of lists. Since the Top 10 are all women, men have been arbitrarily excluded from the Oldest people page, which presenting the Top 50ish solves.

I have completed a merge of the Top 50ish list into where the Top 10 list was before in Oldest people. No loss of data or info happens with this. Only the spinout article with just the top 50ish list turns into a redirect.

Oldest people is a more natural page title then List of oldest living people. Presenting the oldest ever recorded people near the oldest living also facilitates cross checking the lists as people age or die. Naturally the List of oldest living people will become a section specific redirect. Legacypac (talk) 23:10, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Oppose This obsession with merging everything into one list, or even one article, is counter-productive to readability. DerbyCountyinNZ 23:20, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

• Support As I stated at the related Afd this would seem to be entirely consistent with "readability" and simplified navigation for our readers. The main article is not too big to accommodate this list as one of the centrepieces of Oldest people, and readers can find everything in one main article. Also, if the main article can accommodate a list of "100 verified oldest people" why can't it house the 50 oldest living, too? Shawn in Montreal (talk) 23:24, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

For that matter - if 10 oldest living were a key part of the article, why not 50? If 50 are too many we can cut the list down in either location. No one cares about the 47th tallest or fattest or fastest living person on earth for example. Legacypac (talk) 23:33, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Could you provide the link to that AfD? I wasn't able to find it. aremisasling (talk) 16:28, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Oppose These are different - and should remain separate. Alan Davidson (talk) 00:19, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

So are you proposing to remove all the Oldest living people from the Oldest people article? Legacypac (talk) 01:04, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Oppose @Shawn: In the first place I am a reader! When this article is merged it will be much more difficult to follow all the changes. I want

the oldest living people in a seperate article. And Legacypac, when you don't care about Nr. 47, what the hell are you doing here? Every time I come here I find another action from you trying to delete something and destroying structures that worked for years now. If there is something bad sourced, remember sometimes bad sources are the best to get. But Oldest living people isn't bad sourced, it's completely sourced. And it can be linked from oldest people, so your natural page title argument doesn't count. Please stop changing everything only to change anything.--Dangermouse600 (talk) 00:24, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Who is arguing about sources? The ArbComm case shows that there needs to be a restructure and simplification of Longevity. Join the effort instead of fighting change. Legacypac (talk) 01:04, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Please link to the ArbComm case as well. My apologies I'm not used to digging up all of these AfD's and ArbComm cases and I suspect other editors may be in the same boat. It would be helpful to understand what was decided if we could find the discussion. aremisasling (talk) 16:32, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Oppose Misplaced Pages is supposed to be a pool of information. Why do people keep on insisting content relating to longevity be removed from Misplaced Pages? It is a never ending battle to keep these articles intact and consistent with each other. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crveni5 (talk • contribs) 01:08, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Well, all I'm suggesting is that where possible, information be 'pooled' in one place. But again, there seems to be very strong feelings based on past Afds, I suppose. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 01:16, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

• Support But there's clearly not enough support for this. Suggest putting this into an RFC and following the requirements at WP:RFC and getting broader community output. There is a few obscure topic. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 05:37, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Oppose I've followed these lists for years, and the recent amalgamation of oldest people ever with oldest people living is confusing and unnecessary. They should remain separate articles. As stated by others above, there seems to be a recurring desire on the part of exclusionists to make sure that useful and interesting information on longevity is removed from Misplaced Pages. Can you please find something else to work on that adds useful content to Misplaced Pages? // Internet Esquire (talk) 05:50, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

You realize the Top 10 have been in the Oldest people article all along and you are fighting to keep out the next forty? If the merge is not allowed to stay, the Oldest living people will be removed completely from Oldest people with just a link provided. Legacypac (talk) 05:56, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

• Note List of oldest living people has been fully protected to stop the back and forth edit warring. --kelapstick 05:58, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
• The living list has been removed from Oldest people to satisfy the people who reject that information there. I don't expect that it will be restored in whole or part as editors insist it should live on standalone page. Legacypac (talk) 06:02, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose User merged some lists without consensus and has no grounds for this. The lists are not the same and merging will cause loss of information. 930310 (talk) 15:27, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose If it is a suggestion to merge the lists, why has the merger occurred before the suggestion was discussed? This is not a suggestion but a change forced upon the people against their will. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crveni5 (talk • contribs) 15:38, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose Merging mutiple lists into a single page would negatively affect the readability and usefulness of the list. Also, trying to merge the lists before a consensus has been reached displays a lack of respect for the policies that exist on Misplaced Pages. Bodgey5 (talk) 17:49, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

• There is no need to have several articles where oldest living people are listed. Listing them in the article Oldest people is enough, that's why I'm trying to blank this article and redirect it to Oldest people, why do other users always revert me? No need to revert me! BjörnBergman 12:44, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Because you are contravening Wiki guidelines by attempting to implement a redirect during an ongoing discussion. And you are not the only one. DerbyCountyinNZ 20:17, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

If you ignore the GRG fanclub and follow policy, we would have the redirect done. I like User:Ricky81682's idea of an RfC to pull in more well rounded editors. Maybe Ricky will draft one. Legacypac (talk) 21:20, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

There is considerable disagreement at present with the mergers that have been made with respect to wiki policy, not all of which is in agreement with your stance. Broad-brushing the opposing viewpoint as a 'fan club' and suggesting they are merely in the way of a particular vision for a page with respect to wiki policy is unhelpful to the discussion. aremisasling (talk) 16:26, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose I'm supportive of some sort of change to reduce some of the redundancy, but just jamming the articles together, to several other people's points, negatively impacts the readability of the page. Originally I didn't speak up on it, though I was opposed. But upon seeing the merged version I'm more vocally against it. If we are to make an attempt to solve the problem it needs to be a smarter solution than this. The edit war that is brewing over this certainly needs to be abated. I'm aware Misplaced Pages is not a democracy and we are charged with being bold, but the vast majority of respondents to this proposal have been vocally opposed. At the very least it merits further discussion before it's completely reworked. aremisasling (talk) 13:39, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

I've added an RFC (it's my first go round with an RFC so hopefully I've gotten it about right). I've made an effort to be neutral and fair in my language. My apologies if anyone feels that is not the case. Being as there is an ongoing conversation and a definite lack of consensus on the merge, I would suggest that no more mergers or major changes be undertaken until we can get further input and come to some consensus. aremisasling (talk) 16:09, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for trying to start an RfC. Unfortunately it's too vaguely worded without a clear proposal to get a clear result in my opinion. This topic has many years of history and is under ArbComm sanctions because of editor behavior. It would be inappropriate to broadly stop the rationalization efforts to bring it within Misplaced Pages policy because mythical consensus is very unlikely. See and for recent examples, and there are quite a few others who have been blocked too.

Legacypac (talk) 18:52, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

I get your sentiment and your intent, but I feel you're being grossly heavy handed here. And as far as I can tell the closest we have to consensus is overwhelmingly opposed to the actions you're taking and by many more than the ones you and others have proposed for sanctions. This is not one or two POV editors, this is the vast majority of those commenting. And I've read 930310's Arbitration request. It seemed very much like while the conclusion was against him, all but one of the people who commented felt your behavior was out of line. I would take that as a sign you should at least temper your activity a bit and offer more than an hour or two on the RfC before calling it dead and continuing on your merry way. There is no screaming urgency for making every change you see fit immediately over all of the dissenting voices. aremisasling (talk) 19:12, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

The vast majority of my proposed changes have been implemented including deleting a number of articles here. I'm only looking to present an accessible, easy to follow, accurate presentation of the topic. It was none of those things when I started on this project, even after other editors had been trying to clean it up for years. I've now been subjected to trolls mimicking my account and vandalizing Misplaced Pages, which suggests my efforts are making some headway on the problems. I'm not calling your RfC dead, I gave my considered opinion on it's structure - an opinion that I'm confident other editors will share based on my experience in other contentious areas. Please take a good look around at the issues here before lecturing me please. Legacypac (talk) 19:25, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

I've taken quite a good look at a number of pages involved in your recent edits. All I'm looking for is some measure of moderation in at the very least the rate at which you are implementing what is fundamentally a complete overhaul of the longevity section, justified or not, keeping in mind there is both active talk page discussion and an RfC involved. I feel as though a vast number of actions have been taken with input requested post-facto and generally disregarded. Those who were engaged with have been frequently subjected to arbitration to the point I'm hesitant to even post here for fear I'll be labelled as some form of violator of one wiki policy or another and topic banned. I want it to be accessible, easy to follow, and accurate as well as you do, but there has to be a middle ground between doing nothing and burning it to its foundations, rebuilding on a singular vision, and requesting formal reprimand of large numbers of dissenters. aremisasling (talk) 19:45, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Nomination of deletion

Can someone explain why the List of supercentenarians who died in 2012 is nominated for deletion? The years of the other lists not? What is the sense of such a behaviour? Is someone paid here for nomination for deletion of supercentenarians articles? Just discuss, please.--37.4.93.114 (talk) 13:59, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Since you started editing today, only in this topic area, and already found your way to the Project and AfD pages with strong opinions, would you mind telling us which editor you are normally? Legacypac (talk) 18:37, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Page Merge RFC

Please consider joining the feedback request service. An editor has requested comments from other editors for this discussion. This page has been added to the following list: Biographies When discussion has ended, remove this tag and it will be removed from the list. If this page is on additional lists, they will be noted below.

It had been noted that there was some redundancy and maintenance inconsistencies between several longevity related lists including the list this talk page belongs to as well as List of the verified oldest people and others. There is some disagreement with the merger of several of these lists and a suggestion that the discussion be broadened has been proposed. In addition to the thumbs up/thumbs down options on the merger, there may be alternative ways to resolve this discussion that have not yet been considered. aremisasling (talk) 16:06, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

ANI

As a result of persistently disruptive behavior by User:Legacypac I have initiated a ANI discussion. Posting here and other relevant talk pages in the hopes of getting a balanced response. DerbyCountyinNZ 06:03, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

• B-Class Longevity articles
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