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User talk:Irondome/Archive 1

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HAPPY NEW YEAR Hoping 2015 will be a great year for you! Thank you for your contributions!
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This week's article for improvement (week 48, 2015)

Coffee production in Cuba – Robusta coffee beans at a coffee plantation in Viñales valley in Cuba Hello, Irondome. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: Coffee production in Cuba Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: Goods and services • Marie Serneholt Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

This week's article for improvement (week 49, 2015)

The First Geneva Convention (1864) is one of the earliest formulations of international law. Hello, Irondome. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: International law Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: Coffee production in Cuba • Goods and services Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

Request for assistance

Hello Irondome,

I'm new to Misplaced Pages editing so I hope I'm doing this the correct way. I feel like I'm being harassed/attacked by two people with respect to an article where I am trying to make what I consider to be a small addition (a one or two-paragraph sub-heading). The individuals involved don't seem to be interested in reaching consensus; they seem to be interested in shutting me down. They also repeatedly threaten to 'take action' against me for edit warring, whereas I believe that their constant and wholesale reversion of (literally) anything that I write is in itself an edit war.

You have many kudos for diplomacy and whereas I am certainly capable of being diplomatic (and in fact worked as a 'diplomat' in my nation's embassy for a time), I am considerably less so when I feel I'm being threatened. I would be happy to discuss the situation with those involved, but it appears that they have no interest in doing so and that their goal is to 'win'. I've also realized that they know very little about the subject in question - they recite 'facts' as to why their view should prevail, however their 'facts' are wrong. I feel very much put upon and the issue has become rather upsetting.

I do feel that the persons involved have some sort of connections and emotional, or possibly political, involvement with the subject as their reactions (to me) seem entirely out of proportion to issue involved. However I don't like being bullied, which is why I'm not willing to just walk away and say 'never mind'.

Anyway, I hope that you can help me get this straightened out. If you don't have time right now I understand, please try to let me know if that's the case. The reason I'm asking you rather than someone else is that your offer to volunteer was one of most recent (I believe third-newest) so I believe that you are more likely to be available than someone who wrote several years ago, you seem multi-faceted, and you don't appear to have any overt political or philosophical biases (even though I don't feel the instant matter is or should be controversial, the very strong dislike I feel coming from the other parties makes me believe that there's some underlying reason other than disliking the two brief paragraphs I added to the article).

The situation as brief as I can make it: The matter involves a Misplaced Pages article named "Newton Public Schools". It is about a school district in Newton, Massachusetts, U.S. The schools that comprise the district are state-supported (called 'public schools' in the U.S.; I believe however that term has a different meaning in the U.K).

Most of the article is standard and innocuous; however there is a section at the end called "Controversies" which is the source of the problem. There were three sub-headings to the "Controversies" section; I have been trying to add a fourth; I also made minor changes in one or two of the other sub-headings so that they accurate.

The headings are:

1. Textbook controversy - the issue as to whether supplemental material used by high school students in history courses is inaccurate, biased, or anti-Israel has been an ongoing controversy in the community for several years. It has been the subject of newspaper articles and a "Call for Action" by Jewish, community, and education groups and has been the subject of media reports in several U.S. states and in Israel. (I think there were three or four sentences in this section). Also, in an unusual move, the district removed a widely used supplemental text and also removed items from a list of recommended sources.

2. Superintendent Plagiarism - the district's superintendent was found to have plagiarized a speech he gave during a high school graduation ceremony and was fined. In another district where this happened, the superintendent was forced to resign. (I believe there were two sentences).

3. Violation of State Open Meeting Laws - in connection with the plagiarism, the state Attorney General (government prosecutor) found that the school district and Chair of the School Committee violated state law on eight separate occasions. (I think three sentences).

all of the above, plus the events in the fourth section below occurred within a few months of each other.

4. Last year, the state Department of Education found that the district and Chair of the School Committee had engaged in illegal retaliation against a student whose parent had been involved in the textbook issue. As far as can be ascertained, this is the first time in state history that a standing administrator has been found to have violated education law (in this case, student confidentiality law). A federal investigation is ongoing.

I have just realized that the other editors have deleted a post I made in the 'Talk' section of the article and also deleted the last six months of History for the article. This is beyond outrageous.

This is the last couple of posts (including mine) from the Talk section:

This week's article for improvement (week 50, 2015)

Princess Leia with characteristic hairstyle cosplayed. Hello, Irondome. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: Princess Leia Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: International law • Coffee production in Cuba Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

Wikicology arbitration case opened

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Wikicology. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Wikicology/Evidence. Please add your evidence by April 22, 2016, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Wikicology/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:57, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

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Email?

Hi Irondome,

I trust you're fine. Please, can I send you a private mail? Thank you. Wikic¤l¤gy 07:52, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi Wc. I hope you are unstressed and relaxing over the weekend. Wc, my email on WP has always been enabled, and anyone can communicate with me via email. Regards, Irondome (talk) 22:31, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 15, 2016)

Various foods in a delicatessen in Rome, Italy Hello, Irondome. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: Delicatessen Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: Pecan pie • Gates of hell Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot 00:09, 11 April 2016 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

DRN help needed and volunteer roll call

You are receiving this message because you have listed yourself on the list of volunteers at Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution noticeboard/Volunteering#List of the DRN volunteers.

First, assistance is needed at DRN. We have recently closed a number of cases without any services being provided for lack of a volunteer willing to take the case. There are at least three cases awaiting a volunteer at this moment. Please consider taking one.

Second, this is a volunteer roll call. If you remain interested in helping at DRN and are willing to actively do so by taking at least one case (and seeing it through) or helping with administrative matters at least once per calendar month, please add your name to this roll call list. Individuals currently on the principal volunteer list who do not add their name on the roll call list will be removed from the principal volunteer list after June 30, 2016 unless the DRN Coordinator chooses to retain their name for the best interest of DRN or the encyclopedia. Individuals whose names are removed after June 30, 2016, should feel free to re-add their names to the principal volunteer list, but are respectfully requested not to do so unless they are willing to take part at DRN at least one time per month as noted above. No one is going to be monitoring to see if you live up to that commitment, but we respectfully ask that you either live up to it or remove your name from the principal volunteer list.

Best regards, TransporterMan (talk · contribs) (Current DRN coordinator) This is an informational posting only and I am not watching this page; contact me on my user talk page if you wish to communicate with me about this. Sent via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:05, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Note

Hi Irondome,

I trust you're fine. I want to let you know that I have started cleaning up my articles. I'm currently working on Friday Okonofua. Can I remove the section on "fellowship" and "membership" since they are unsupported by reliable sources?. I removed this dead link and the contents supported by the source (although the source isn't dead as at the time I added it). Thank you. Wikic¤l¤gy 09:58, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Hello Wikic¤l¤gy I am glad that you are on the job, and I have been looking at the article you have been working on, albeit briefly today. Yes, please do remove any sections supported by sources that are not completely rock - solid and unambiguous. Good work! Regards, Irondome (talk) 20:03, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Troll

Hi Irondome,

I trust you're fine. You reverted 105.112.22.93's offensive comments on my talk page here. The IP left this comment on User:Peter Damian's talk page. Unknown to them, I am not an admin and I have no power to delete articles on Misplaced Pages. Anyway, I will ignore the troll. Warmest regards. Wikic¤l¤gy 19:58, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

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Books & Bytes - Issue 16

The Misplaced Pages Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 16, February-March 2016
by The Interior (talk · contribs), UY Scuti (talk · contribs)

• New donations - science, humanities, and video resources
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Read the full newsletter

The Interior via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:17, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

How to avoid dead link

Hi Irondome,

I trust you're fine.

During my article cleanup, I discovered some of the link I added to articles as sources when the article was created are now dead. I want to avoid that problem in the future, so I want to use web.archive.org. I don't want to lose where these sources are archived in case the links go dead in the future. How is the use of archived sources usually done on Misplaced Pages? Can I place the links to the archived sources on the talk page of each article so they can be easily found when needed? Wikic¤l¤gy 16:12, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi Wikicology umm that's a bit technical for me. Take it to Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical) and you should get an answer in a few minutes. Regards Irondome (talk) 19:00, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Would you like discussing mentroing me?

You offered it already and if this is the only thing that will keep me on Misplaced Pages, I am willing to take it. But after reading the WP:MENTOR, I didn't quite have a good picutre of what it might be, so.. explaination?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 19:24, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

It may be the only thing that will keep you editing on the subject range of Israel and the Palestinian territories, you are quite free to edit any other topic. And I am still unclear whether we can avoid a six month topic ban. We need to go back to ANI to say you are accepting this. You need to stop concentrating on the status of the Palestinian territories, and take that off your talk page. It makes you seem like a WP:SPA. We need to widen your subject range, and out of fights with other editors. Also read Misplaced Pages:Writing for the Enemy. I want you to speak to Monochrome Monitor if you want to know what my mentoring is like. Also Nishidani. You will not agree on much, but I think you will get on. Simon. Irondome (talk) 20:21, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Alright, I probably wont be active in the next four days, so but I"ll speak with this guy.. I don't know about the ANI, I have already said I accepted it. About the avoiding, I have no problem editing other subjects and I have other subjects to edit (such as localities in Israel and the West Bank), but let's say I want to edit things about the Palestinian Authority and the Fatah-Hamas Reconciliation Process, who are current affairs and expanding an entity's history, based on things that already exist in other articles - can I edit it in \a controlled manner? Becuase those are things outside of the disputed context. And of course, I still have on hold, the article I created about Palestinian workers in Israel. As how I see it, the status of Palestine is a very disputed subject, not only on wikipedia, but also outside of it, so I understand the need to avoid it for now, although I tempered down my rage on the discussion and I understand the claims of my POV there, but in other topics, such as also the Israeli–Palestinian conflict (2015–present) which really needs some editings and there might be disputes there, although I generally think that I can arrage a dicussion with Nishidani and other people who edit the article in order to rewrite portions of it. Also, could I ask you about the origins of your username?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 20:43, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Bolter21. Monochrome Monitor is a she. Nishidani has a very different POV to me, but we are firm friends. This is probably because of, not in spite of, our differing opinions on some things. I am a London Jew, and I am a Zionist. This is well known in these parts, but it does not define me. I edit a vast range of diverse topics. Iron dome. I like the whooshing sound it makes. Simple. Call me Simon. Irondome (talk) 20:58, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Oh, yes. I'm a she. Simon is great, a really nice guy. He's sorta hands off for me cause I'm stubborn as hell but when I get myself into a shithole or just need some advice he's always there. Well, most always. Yeah, I came into wikipedia with that mentality (with respect to the israeli-arab conflict) of crusading (apologies for the term) for the truth. That's not a good mentality to have and will result in a lot of blocks (I have had four). Now I pick my battles and don't edit heavy stuff like Rachel Corrie. Though I did make that article a hell of a lot better, if jackasses haven't messed it up since then. However even still its hard to escape the awful confrontation... hell, a user tried to get me sanctioned for edits I made at Modern Hebrew since he thought it was related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in some way. Anyway, my advice is that on contentious topics you are passionate about, edit with your heart in mind, don't let the wikistatusquo keep you down. You shouldn't have a defeatist attitude that everything on wikipedia will stay the way it is and people will revert your edits so it's not even worth trying. It's always worth trying, because for me I've found that even if I personally don't succeed in making a change, others notice the issue by my mentioning it and often agree with me, building a consensus which can then make the change. However, while following your instinct you may need to correct your diction in the opposite direction of your view to a varying extent depending on your zealousness, personally I'm able to be pretty nuetral in my writing itself, though my edit summaries are written like Yiddish curses (they are really terrible). BUT DONT BREAK ANY RULES. DONT REVERT MORE THAN THREE TIMES IN 24 HOURS. And accept criticism from uninvolved admins graciously. --Monochrome_Monitor 22:57, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

AND GOOD GOD SIMON, ARCHIVE YOUR FREAKING TALK PAGE! --Monochrome_Monitor 22:58, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Do I really need a mentor? I still belive what I had on the talk:State of Palestine was just a huge overreaction to a dispute. I withdrew from the debate on the article, which generally ended immidiatly after and my question is, why do I need a mentor? I now return to the starting point of the discussion, saying I did nothing wrong and my position on the debate was not based on POV but on over 45 sources I cited, which were saying a different thing than a consensus, reached by a democratic vote and horribly presented, with no sources at all (although later one miserable and highly dubious source was given, but WP:WEIGHT). I changed my focus to other things for now, continued my work on the Musmus article and made a stub for Rashid Hussein who was born in that village. Less politics, more things that interest me, and much more AGF than a POV Push. I am on Misplaced Pages for almost a year (actually, tommorow will be my first anniversery) and the last time I violated a law was in September, some six months ago. Insteed of "tempering my POV", I just became more indifferent to those topics after this huge discussion in the ANI and after the end of the heated week and a lovely vaccation in a nice place I just realised I don't care. Someone questioned the lead-section of the Palestinians article, that says they are an "ethnic group", something I personally disagree about, but I really didn't feel the need to argue about it or start a battleground on it. My temper went down and now I feel like saying "take it easy.. maaaan...". So.. why do I need a mentor? I am asking not as a matter of trying to avoid it, but as an honest question--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:35, 21 April 2016 (UTC) (By the way, that's exactly the same message I gave to Jack Sebastian but I think he doesn't want to hear about me any more..)

Yeah I hear you. I'm glad you have had a peaceful time and are not getting stressed so much. You need a mentor precisely so that you have someone to communicate with if you are feeling stressed but before it goes to the boards. So I would mentor you, precisely because you need to get the trust of the "community", and saying, "ok, sorry, I will back off from this" helps hugely. You need someone to give you a sense of perspective too. You can stew and go crazy, but if you don't communicate it just makes you ill. My offer is still open. Remember on articles, consensus can change, and there is no WP:DEADLINE. try saying "I may be wrong" a bit more. Apologise more. Hit the thanks button often. You can be an excellent content creator. Just relax. Relax. Irondome (talk) 22:50, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

I am a "maybe I am wrong" person, but when I am sure, I tend to be cocksure (I really need to use this word less). Anyway, I feel like avoiding talk debates for the next month or more. I also feel like a complete fool because I still don't get the mentor thing by 100%. If it's about communicating, I will gladly ask you for help and advices if needed and it seems like a great thing but does it need to be under the name "mentorship"? Because in my head, mentorship is a temporary status while I can generally ask experienced users all the time. I already did it with another Admin I have on Skype.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:35, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Alright then, let's do this. What happens now?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 00:00, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
Well? And if we are talking, I want to put in one citation two references that are the same doccument but in two different language, how do I do that?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 20:29, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

I am still here.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 15:53, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Good. Now watch this page first, I will leave messages here sometimes. First I need a list of articles you are working on. All I do is shadow, if you have any edits which may cause "discussion", let me know of them first. It is very informal but I may tell you an edit or a line of argument is unwise. If I do please don't fight me. You are seventeen. Youth is golden, but some of your behaviours now make sense. You are a male version of MM. Shalom for now. Simon Irondome (talk) 16:00, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

My editing patterns can be erratic. I shall be off for a few hours. Irondome (talk) 16:03, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Confusion

I give up Simon. What the hell am I supposed to be looking for on Wickology's (spelling not included) talk page??!!?! --Monochrome_Monitor 00:03, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

No on my talk page..Irondome (talk) 00:59, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 16, 2016)

Debt is the amount of money that is owed or due. Hello, Irondome. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: Debt Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: Delicatessen • Pecan pie Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot 00:07, 18 April 2016 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

Igogo festival

Hi Irondome, I trust you're fine.

Please, I need clarification on a particular source. User:Plx1 once stated on the evidence page that every single sources in the Igogo festival are fake and forgery. This is very untrue. The major mistakes I made was that I never knew that the exact page is what should be cited when citing google books. I fixed the problems with sources in that article, I also add new sources. I explained these mistakes of not citing the exact page on the evidence page under my section. One of the sources User:Plx1 described as forgery " Poynor, Robin (November 1987). "Ako Figures of Owo and Second Burials in Southern Nigeria". African Arts (UCLA James S. Coleman African Studies Center) 21 (1): 62–63+81–83+86–87. doi:10.2307/3336502." did supported the claim that Igogo festival is combined with new yam celebration and I used the source to support that single line. User:PIx1 returned to the evidence page to write ""a new reference has appeared, supposed to be about the celebration of new yams. This Poynor's paper is easy to find . Page 86 is made of end notes. None of them is about yams or the Igogo festival. Nor any other part of this reference paper. Dear mentors, any comments ?"

I was surprised to see this comment because that source on page 86 reads: 

"The number seventeen seems to be of ritual significance in Owo. Igogo, the most important annual festival in the kingdom, a combination of New Yam festival and purification ceremony merged with a memorial to the goddess Oronshen, also takes place over a seventeen-day period. The burial of the Olowo takes seventeen ritual days. These and other significant ceremonies all begin on the day of the five-day market."

I was confused and I left a message on their talk page here pointing them to what the source actually says. I asked if there is something I am missing so that they can point me to it because I don't understand why they felt the sources didn't supported the claim. User:Plx1 ignored me and returned to the evidence page to write

"these fake references have been trashed out by their author (and the article reduced from 11,250 bytes to 6,928 bytes). At , a new reference has appeared, supposed to be about the celebration of new yams. This Poynor's paper is easy to find . Page 86 is made of end notes. None of them is about yams or the Igogo festival. One of them, note 3, is about the signification of a 17 days period. One line refers to yams. Nor any other part of this reference paper. Dear mentors, any comments ?

I was perplexed to see this again. I am learning but I'm not sure why they feel the source didn't supported the claim and the source is a forgery. I contacted User:Smartse for clarification perhaps I'm missing anything but Smartse said "the reference is saying (in very brief passing) that the festival is similar to the New yam festival but doesn't explcitly state that yams are celebrated during Igogo. Although English is not my primary language but I don't think the source is saying "Igogo festival is similar to the New yam festival". Is that what the source is saying? Wikic¤l¤gy 13:49, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi Wikicology I am very glad that you are now tackling the vital point of the use of sources. Firstly you will note that the original comment made by pldx1 was struck out. You had indeed found a WP:RS which mentioned a similarity between the Igogo and New Yam festival. However I fully agree with Smartse's comment. You need to find perhaps two sources which explicitly state that yams are featured in and are an important part of Igogo. You are falling victim to WP:SYNTH here it seems. Please read the link which will explain it. I appreciate you dropping by and openly discussing this. This is the method which will ensure your correct use of sources in the future. Kind regards, Simon. Irondome (talk) 14:15, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Thank you Irondome and Smartse. I am very grateful. this newspaper confirmed that Igogo and yam festival are combined together and I have added it to the article.

Please, what does the statement below actually mean?

"Igogo, the most important annual festival in the kingdom, a combination of New Yam festival and purification ceremony merged with a memorial to the goddess Oronshen"

Does it mean both festivals are combined? Or it means they are similar? I am confused. Thank you. Wikic¤l¤gy 14:54, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

It seems to be saying that the New Yam festival is followed by another, distinct festival which follows five days later. I think we are talking about at least two other distinct events here, apart from the New yam. The linkage is not made clear in terms of the significance of the New yam in the others. Irondome (talk) 15:26, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

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This week's article for improvement (week 17, 2016)

Genetics for ethnic groups RfC

In case you're interested in voicing an opinion, there's an RfC being held here. Cheers! --Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:50, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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Chris Olukolade

Hi Irondome,

I trust you're fine. I fixed the above article yesterday. See this. I don't know how "hail from" is been used in places like US or UK. In Nigeria, it means our origin I.e where our parents originated from. I have asked on the article's talk page if anyone could help find sources to verify this. Could you please take a look at the article? Thank you. Wikic¤l¤gy 07:07, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi Wikicology, yes it always means that, although it is almost exclusively a U.S. usage. It is rarely used in the U.K. if ever. Irondome (talk) 23:20, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Just to note, Wikicology got a different answer somewhere else that he asked the same question. User talk:Cullen328 perhaps. MPS1992 (talk) 23:34, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

There appears to be agreement that it is a phrase that is mostly used in the United States. The discussion appears to be around a too-close paraphrasing using this Americanism in a paragraph of the article in question. Wc appears to have rectified this. Cheers Irondome (talk) 00:49, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

The discussion and the original question was about whether "hails from" means the place one comes from, or the place one's parents come from. On that, two different answers have been given. On the close paraphrasing -- not a new thing for Wikicology -- I will re-check that in this article once the arbitration case concludes. MPS1992 (talk) 19:58, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Your reversion

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk%3AHullaballoo_Wolfowitz&type=revision&diff=718184510&oldid=718184397

Did you mean to revert the IP rather than the bot who signed his comment? Adam9007 (talk) 01:06, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

No idea. Rollback just went weird. I have manually reverted the crap. Cheers Irondome (talk) 01:09, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 18, 2016)

Steak à la carte Hello, Irondome. The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection: À la carte Please be bold and help to improve this article! Previous selections: Fame (Irene Cara song) • Debt Get involved with the TAFI project. You can: Nominate an article • Review nominations Posted by: MusikBot 02:07, 2 May 2016 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI • Opt-out instructions

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I am going to start a discussion about an ARBPIA related article.

I want to make a title change proposal for Talk:Killing of an injured Palestinian knifer affair. I decided to ask you if I shouldn't do it. I made a sort of draft for the proposal which is the top of my sandbox. I made the templates in the top as no-wiki so the users will not be noted they were linked and that the RfC template will not list it the list of RfCs.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 17:15, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Bolter21 Yes. Excellent. Do it. A very sound proposal. Irondome (talk) 17:50, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! Also, there is no problem in sending you messages on your usertalk right?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:05, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

It is no problem correct. Irondome (talk) 18:08, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

SORRY

	A Sperm Whale Attacking a Giant Squid for You!
	I feel terrible about thinking you wrote something Nish wrote. I saw the word irondome in there somewhere and there were a lot of paragraphs.... Anyway, you're amazing as always. --Monochrome_Monitor 20:03, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Don't worry about anything love. Try not to dwell on stuff. Remember the great secret. You can log out :) Simon Irondome (talk) 21:22, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Question

Hey. I thought about making a page which would probably be called "User:Bolter21/translated works" or something like that in which I will translate some good and important Hebrew sources (!with citation, without violating copyrights!) for further usage and to have it if there will be a need in a future. It's obvious that the absolute majority of users don't read Hebrew and simply asking or forcing them to use google translate is not ok in my opinion. I think this can be very usefull for discussion and while I try to avoid Hebrew sources as much as I can, some articles will just won't have a purpose without them.

So, is this a good idea? And if yes, how do I create such a page?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 10:52, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Be careful of running into any copyright violations, that would be the only problem I could forsee. But I think you have thought of that. Apart from that I see no problem. Many users have similar set-ups, usually on their User Pages. You could certainly create a resource section on your User page. For any copyright issues Diannaa is an expert on copyright, so any issues on that she is worth talking to Irondome (talk) 14:35, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Translations of copyright texts can be considered as copyright violations, as they are derivative works. Best to store such material off-wiki, perhaps in a Wordpress blog — Diannaa (talk) 19:31, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Hebrew source.

Hello. I am prepering to work on five articles soon but there's something that blocks me and it is the fact that I am using too many Hebrew sources. Now don't get me wrong, as soon as I find a reliable English source, I jump on it as it was a Ball pit, but in the articles I prepare to work on, there are almost only reliable Hebrew source, while the English source just don't exist. I know that the complete majority of readers don't really care about sources and just read the article but I feel like there's a problem with using too many Hebrew sources... I am going to use mainly Hebrew sources for my future work on Ma'ale Iron simply because that's the only sources I can find.. What is your opinion? And can I call you "Simondome"?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:02, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Simondome. Ha, why not? You show a lot of insight in asking that question, in terms of you obviously wanting your sources to be read by as many readers as possible. You have all the right instincts to be a huge asset to the Misplaced Pages. My advice would be to use the best sources you can muster, language to an extent is less important. You can always get assistance from the many Hebrew speakers here, incl Roland R, Debresser and others. Also work with the Hebrew Wiki, it will help to build cross-wiki relationships. Of course, any English based sources would be excellent, but my instinct is to strive to get good accurate translations of Hebrew sources if translation is requested, but use them initially regardless. Regards, Simondome. Irondome (talk) 23:14, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Alright, that's gladdening (<= that's what google translate offered).--Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:22, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

I love ball pits. Feel free to stop by me if you think something you write sounds weird and I'll unweirden it. (warning, unweirden is not a word) --Monochrome_Monitor 04:09, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

What about citing an excel file from an offical source?--Bolter21 (talk to me) 23:34, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

PLEASE

Please archive your talk page. I shouldn't have to suffer a long scroll to stalk you. --Monochrome_Monitor 10:25, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Just throw that at the top of your talkpage.

{{User:MiszaBot/config |archiveheader = {{talk archive navigation}} |counter = 1 |minthreadsleft = 0 |minthreadstoarchive = 1 |algo = old(30d) |archive = User talk:Irondome/Archive %(counter)d }} ]

--Bolter21 (talk to me) 22:32, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, that's much better. :) --Monochrome_Monitor 17:24, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi Simon!

An IP showed up at the theocracy article and wrote this. I am an atheist, I live thousands of kilometers away and I have never visited Israel, but I was under the impression that Israel is pretty much secular, and not a theocracy. One of the first results Google gave me is . I know very little about Israeli politics, so I figured it was probably a good idea to ask someone who is interested in Israel-related topics. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 19:24, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

It was very much my impression too, so this is news to me. Living in London does not help however for a full overview.Israel says it is a parliamentary democracy using a Presidential model. Sounds like the IP is an erm...fundamentalist. BTW got to add my name to the link you gave me. Sorry for being slow this past fortnight Irondome (talk) 19:48, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. I think the IP will disagree with many wiki articles. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 21:12, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

It's a democracy, but some religious institutions are preserved at a government level, ie, marriage and the rabbinates. And the Ultra-Orthodox are coddled too much in my opinion. But, it's still a liberal democracy. In fact its a less religious country than America. --Monochrome_Monitor 17:27, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

It depdends from which point of view you are talking. I live in Israel and I most of them and from my own critisizm, Israel is still far from being a theocracy. It has many shitty rules based on religion but so do many other countries and entities in the Western World. The majority of Israel are variants of seculars and light religious (they are not strict religious but they are more Masorati) and it might sound low, but to me it's astounding we have 20% atheists. I don't know much about the Muslim communities, I know they are predominantly consevative Muslims. Same is with Druze and Christians who are mostly Greek Orthodox although Christians are the minority with the most liberals and progressivists. So the answer is NO. Israel is not a theocray and not close to it. Some places in Israel are very religions (such as Tiberias, Bnei Brak, Modi'in Ilit etc.) and some places are not (such as Tel Aviv, Ramat HaSharon etc.).

My suggestion is to never take users who say things that sound like conspiracies or very ignorant fundemental hatred. Before being the luscious Wikipedian I am, I used to spend hours doing talk-back to people like that on Youtube and Reddit and my conclusion, those people will not change after a conversation with you so it's better to drop out. peace and serenety--Bolter21 (talk to me) 18:31, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

I find that most Sephardic Jews are Masorti but the Ashkenazim are generally more secular, especially Jews from the Soviet Union. By the way, I'm not sure you meant to say "luscious", hahaha. --Monochrome_Monitor 19:13, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

It's more complicated than that. On one hand Saphardic Jews, primarly Moroccan Jews are Masortim(= traditional) but on the other hand Ashkenazis have the most radical sects such is Lithuanian and Hassidic orthodoxies. Indeed many Olim (migrants) from ex-Soviet countries are atheist but there are (for some odd reason) many who start practicing Jewish traditions, mainly those who were born to one Russian parent and one other Masorati parent and also there's environmental influence on them. The Jewish religious parties in Israel have 21 seats in the Knesset (parliament) and of those there are 15 owned by Ashkenazis. Israel is very diverse in this matter, there are cities where you could eat bacon in the streets (like me) and there are cities where if you drive a car on Sabbath (Saterday) you might get stoned by an angrey mob (Mea Shearim). And my lusciousness is totally subjected to your interpretation. Anyway, to The Quixotic Potato, I hope I made my point that Israel is totally not black and white (just like most things).--Bolter21 (talk to me) 19:42, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

I live in Amsterdam, the Netherlands. Over here people get stoned all the time, because my government has a policy of non-enforcement against recreational marihuana use. Unfortunately in Israel getting stoned means something completely different. The majority of people in my country are irreligious, but we still have some old shitty rules based on religion (e.g. shops close on sunday). Extremely religious people are usually assholes, everywhere on the planet, and Israel is no exception. Doubt is a sign of intelligence. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 21:12, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Right, Ashkenazim have those weird furry hat cults. I don't understand why Israel supports them still. They have nothing but contempt for the state and its laws. But I repeat, Israel is a moderately religious country, more secular than the United states, every south american coutry, most of eastern europe etc. But, Judaism is a part of jewish culture. And israel is the jewish state. It's really not a surprise that judiasm will be important to some people. Having a national religion does not make a country a theocracy. Or else Britain would be one because of the Anglican church, armenia would be one because of the Armenian orthodox church, italy because of the roman catholic church... etc etc. And Israel's religion is an indigenous development, like Shintoism in Japan and Hinduism in India... So basically, saying that Israel is a theocracy because its society is influenced by Jewish traditions and shops are closed on Saturdays is insensitive at best and prejudiced at worst. Also, I can assure you that far more israelis are stoned in the sense you refer to than the other sense. Israel is a small country so a neighborhood full of crazy zealots can be a few kilometers away from a city of godless heathens. I live in the good ol us of a (in massachusetts, once home of the salem witchcraft trails but now the europe of america) and if I went a bit south I could find people playing with poisonous snakes because "jesus said so". And lets not mention scientologists....--Monochrome_Monitor 23:20, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Haredi parties have ~15 Knesset members in every elections. They are usually in the middle between the left and the right so if you want a coalition you need them. They are blackmailing every leading party since 1977. By the way, Israel has no national religion and they consider Jews and Arabs to be differnet "nationalities". And being a secular in Jerusalem is really funny. In the west you are stoned by Haredi Jews, at the east you are stoned by angrey Palestinians. But oh well, the Netanyahu government is so 'amazing' they are 'too good' to solve the Jewish emigration from Jerusalem. In 20 years Jerusalem will have an Arab majority and the Jews will mostly be Haredi. It will be the queen of zealots, a theocratic-intifadic-holy-city.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 00:00, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

I know it has no official national religion, but it has a majority one. Jews and Arabs/Muslims I think is an oversimplification... many Christian Arab Israelis don't identify as Palestinian, which the government is just starting to recognize. The Druze have always had their own thing going too. Do you know any Druze? I find the religion fascinating. --Monochrome_Monitor 00:59, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

fuck, is Nish mad at me? --Monochrome_Monitor 01:09, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Probably. He doesn't like black and white methinks. The Khazar/Ashkenazi enigma is almost Arthurian in its romantic and historical possibilities. Best you have a chat with Nishidani. The present board discussion is actually making more progress than the shitty T/P mess which started this in the first place. An anti Zionist cabal anyone? I recall that defending Nish from such claims started our friendship off just when you were starting out here G. Make your peace yeah. Irondome (talk) 01:23, 7 May 2016 (UTC)