Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Natalia Toreeva: Difference between revisions

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	*'''Delete''' and (re)salt. Not sure why {{U\|RHaworth}} restored this after it had been deleted and ]. ] ] of a ] person. ] (]) 19:49, 30 May 2016 (UTC)		*'''Delete''' and (re)salt. Not sure why {{U\|RHaworth}} restored this after it had been deleted and ]. ] ] of a ] person. ] (]) 19:49, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

			I hope every editor has independent opinion about the article and its content. And ], please stop harassing me and follow everywhere demanding the deletion of the article and 5 drawings I copyrighted and don't have any problem with the submission to wiki. The article was not salted. It was the couple of pages before, and now has just one sentence. Where is the bio or promotional content? Non sense. All the info about my art work, paintings, drawings, my written and illustrated children books, which now in the permanent collection in the different museums, are deleted. I don't know you, your motives, but your action is definitely not in a good faith, and does not make the good face for the Misplaced Pages.] (]) 23:12, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Revision as of 23:12, 30 May 2016

Natalia Toreeva

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Blatant autobiography of a Russian artist. Has she established her notability? — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 10:30, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

~~Pinging Materialscientist, who I believe has recently salted the recreation of this article.~~ _Muffled 10:38, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Delete as ~~total tosh.~~ Perhaps tosh is too strong a word; she's undoubtedly an artist, and undoubtedly known within the art-world. But I question her notability beyond that sphere; the sources are comprised primarily of blogs, worldcat, imdb, etc, and fail to demonstrate any long-term, inherent notability, as would be demonstrated by independent sourcing. _Muffled 10:38, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. Lemongirl942 (talk) 10:55, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. Lemongirl942 (talk) 10:55, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. North America 11:30, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Visual arts-related deletion discussions. North America 11:30, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Delete - Spending 40 minutes trawling through all those references, including translating some from Ruissian, was worse than hunting Unicorns. None of them provide any realistic support for independent notability. Fails WP:GNG and looks very much like self publicity. Velella 12:35, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Comment. I accepted the AfC, and I think she is notable. There are several references in the article (all in Russian) which demonstrate notability. However, I already regret the decision, as the author immediately flooded the article with a irrelevant stuff, and, when I tried to help, she has thrown even more stuff on me (mainly basing the arguments on WP:OTHERSTUFF), so that I gave myself a word to never ever touch the article again. This is a nice example why people should not write autobiographies.--Ymblanter (talk) 13:51, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Further comment: After posting my !vote above, it occured to me that most of the crap sourcing seemed to be in the (in any case excessive) biblographical section. I have been WP:BOLD (feel free to revert, of course) and removed this, with the intention of showing what remains- and whether that is indicative of notability? E.g., 'St Petersburg's Encyclopaedia', maybe? Cheers, _Muffled 13:58, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

At least Saint Petersburg Encyclopedia, Expert (current Ref. 9) and Smena (Ref. 10; can not open it now but I believe I have read it before).--Ymblanter (talk) 14:06, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Hmm....Ref 10 has a barely evanescent mention of Natalia Toreeva - certainly not anything approaching notability. Ref 9 also has a single passing mention as

There were his disciples Anatoly Basin, Natalia and Yuri Toreeva Nashivochkin, create your own work of art association "Temple Wall", what is the next section of the exhibition is provided. In sidlinskoy school he stopped me, "Portrait of a mother" Toreevoy. From the gloom displayed ugly beautiful face of an old woman. Natalia Toreeva worked as an artist at the "Lenfilm". She worked at the Alexis Herman, when he filmed "Twenty Days Without War". There are strange convergence. Why do I remember this movie, looking at the "Portrait of a mother?" Because the portrait about the same as a movie. About the ill time and beautiful people, the share of which it got.

Velella 14:21, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Collapse Wall of Text from WP:NPOV / WP:COI editor, mentioned by Ymblanter above.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Hello, this is Natalia Toreeva, the "real" person from your article. I can see several problems here. In parallel I am doing my input into Soviet Nonconformist Art article, specifically 1960-1980, the movement I was part of it. Ans since in Russia almost no one speaks/write in English, they asked me to do my input. I feel it is my obligation also to write about that time and artist groups where I knew and communicated with almost all artists and groups I mentioned in the article. And since for example, in Arefiev group, only one artist still alive, I feel it is time to make my input. But it is hard to find the references of that time in USSR. I have all the books I gave to the editors for the references, but some books are with ISBN which is hard to find on Internet, but some I found have OCLC at least. Another problem, the references I submitted to your editors are some in English, some in Russian, therefore who does not know Russian, can easily reject the references. The article about the International exhibition ("Dialogues"), 2013, is by Nikita Eliseev, where he described his vision about the exhibition, including the "School of Sidlin", and where he described my painting. What was wrong with it? Why it is not notability, where several hundred art works were included in this International exhibition, and only several artists names in his article? The problem was since your editors were busy, even though I asked for help the Teahouse several times, I started put in the article several references (in English and Russian), so it would be easier for the editors to see the references. Even some editors, DGG, or Bgwhite, or in Teahouse (arch. #484) talked not about notability but about Improvement the article, which should not be put into Delete category. Also, I have mentioned that my art works in 5 museums in their permanent collection, but the museums don't have the web sites to show you about theie art collections. I have the official documents about it, but you don't accept the emails. I checked another's artists web site, for example, Alek Rappoport, and they have mentioned only the list of museums, not direct reference to the record. You can't find it anywhere. So why the names of museums with my art works were deleted? Also, I'm a Member of the Artist Trade Union of Russia, and in 2011, they put me in another category as International Artists Rating, in their Reference book (http://www.10000best.com/be2-20.htm) of Artists Trade Union of Russia, listed 10,000 best world artists of XVIII-XXI centuries. Why this reference was deleted? Also, it was mentioned in Filmography my works as the Artist/Costume Designer. The director (Alexei German) received the Award for 3 films, including the film "Twenty Days without war", where I worked. If the actor receives any award, it is his award, but if the film received award, all crew worked on the film, is awarded. By the way, I mentioned also, that after my emigration from USSR, my name was deleted from the titles of the films, but restored after falling of Soviet Union, 1991. I included also references in Filmography (in imdb.com, in English, and http://www.kinopoisk.ru/name/2016607/ in Russian, where also not all my films included. For example, I worked on 2 films with DEFA (German Film studio), and after Falling WALL in Berlin, all the records were lost, as they answered on my email to Germany. Soooooo, this is my short story. I hope, you will look on the article, which was written by your editor (Ymblanter), for which I appreciate, with my some input of the references to make the editing more easier, and not from delete/reject the article attitude, but from helping to improve it. Thanks in advance.Toreeva (talk) 16:27, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Collapse Wall of Text from WP:NPOV / WP:COI editor, mentioned by Ymblanter above.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Hello, this is Natalia Toreeva, the "real" person from your article. I can see several problems here. In parallel I am doing my input into Soviet Nonconformist Art article, specifically 1960-1980, the movement I was part of it. Ans since in Russia almost no one speaks/write in English, they asked me to do my input. I feel it is my obligation also to write about that time and artist groups where I knew and communicated with almost all artists and groups I mentioned in the article. And since for example, in Arefiev group, only one artist still alive, I feel it is time to make my input. But it is hard to find the references of that time in USSR. I have all the books I gave to the editors for the references, but some books are with ISBN which is hard to find on Internet, but some I found have OCLC at least. Another problem, the references I submitted to your editors are some in English, some in Russian, therefore who does not know Russian, can easily reject the references. The article about the International exhibition ("Dialogues"), 2013, is by Nikita Eliseev, where he described his vision about the exhibition, including the "School of Sidlin", and where he described my painting. What was wrong with it? Why it is not notability, where several hundred art works were included in this International exhibition, and only several artists names in his article? The problem was since your editors were busy, even though I asked for help the Teahouse several times, I started put in the article several references (in English and Russian), so it would be easier for the editors to see the references. Even some editors, DGG, or Bgwhite, or in Teahouse (arch. #484) talked not about notability but about Improvement the article, which should not be put into Delete category. Also, I have mentioned that my art works in 5 museums in their permanent collection, but the museums don't have the web sites to show you about theie art collections. I have the official documents about it, but you don't accept the emails. I checked another's artists web site, for example, Alek Rappoport, and they have mentioned only the list of museums, not direct reference to the record. You can't find it anywhere. So why the names of museums with my art works were deleted? Also, I'm a Member of the Artist Trade Union of Russia, and in 2011, they put me in another category as International Artists Rating, in their Reference book (http://www.10000best.com/be2-20.htm) of Artists Trade Union of Russia, listed 10,000 best world artists of XVIII-XXI centuries. Why this reference was deleted? Also, it was mentioned in Filmography my works as the Artist/Costume Designer. The director (Alexei German) received the Award for 3 films, including the film "Twenty Days without war", where I worked. If the actor receives any award, it is his award, but if the film received award, all crew worked on the film, is awarded. By the way, I mentioned also, that after my emigration from USSR, my name was deleted from the titles of the films, but restored after falling of Soviet Union, 1991. I included also references in Filmography (in imdb.com, in English, and http://www.kinopoisk.ru/name/2016607/ in Russian, where also not all my films included. For example, I worked on 2 films with DEFA (German Film studio), and after Falling WALL in Berlin, all the records were lost, as they answered on my email to Germany. Soooooo, this is my short story. I hope, you will look on the article, which was written by your editor (Ymblanter), for which I appreciate, with my some input of the references to make the editing more easier, and not from delete/reject the article attitude, but from helping to improve it. Thanks in advance.Toreeva (talk) 16:27, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Delete and (re)salt. Not sure why RHaworth restored this after it had been deleted and salted. Promotional autobiography of a non-notable person. Joseph2302 (talk) 19:49, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

I hope every editor has independent opinion about the article and its content. And Joseph2302, please stop harassing me and follow everywhere demanding the deletion of the article and 5 drawings I copyrighted and don't have any problem with the submission to wiki. The article was not salted. It was the couple of pages before, and now has just one sentence. Where is the bio or promotional content? Non sense. All the info about my art work, paintings, drawings, my written and illustrated children books, which now in the permanent collection in the different museums, are deleted. I don't know you, your motives, but your action is definitely not in a good faith, and does not make the good face for the Misplaced Pages.Toreeva (talk) 23:12, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

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