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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

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This page is not a forum for general discussion about Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting at the Reference desk.

view · edit Frequently asked questions This section is here to provide answers to some questions that have been previously discussed on this talk page. Note: This FAQ is only here to let people know that these points have previously been addressed, not to prevent any further discussion of these issues. To view an explanation to the answer, click the link to the right of the question. General concerns and questions Q1: I have an issue with the name of this article. A1: You can post a message on this page about your concern. Please note that renaming of the article will be limited until after some time has passed so that it can be looked at with some retrospect. If you would like to suggest a certain name for the article, then it might be recommended to wait until the renaming process begins. If you would like to make sure that your name hasn't already been suggested, then please first look at the various Archived Talk pages (such as Talk:Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting/Archive 1, Talk:Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting/Archive 2, Talk:Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting/Archive 3 and so on), and the current talk page. Q2: I have an issue about the Bath School disaster being mentioned; I have an issue with the disaster not being mentioned. A2: As with the above question, you can post a message on this page about your concern with the wording of the sentence. If you would like to suggest different wording, then make sure to detail why your change would be an improvement in your post on this talk page. However, it is recommended to check the archive first to see if the specific suggestion to the wording has not already been discussed. Q3: I have an issue about the mother, Nancy Lanza, being mentioned or not being mentioned as a victim of the shooting. A3: Before posting a message, please check the article's various archived talk pages (like Talk:Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting/Archive 1, Talk:Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting/Archive 2) and check the Talk page's Archive index along with the current talk page before adding a new section. Discussion has occurred on this matter before, so please make sure that your point hasn't already been covered by past discussion before opening a possibly redundant thread. You can still post a message on this page if your concerns were not answered by past discussion or you believe that there is something that could change consensus on the issue. Q4: I heard there was an NBC News report that said only handguns were used. Why isn't that in the article? A4: This issue emanates from an NBC TODAY Show Pete Williams report early on the morning of December 15th. The information is outdated because at a press conference at 3:30 that afternoon, the Connecticut Chief Medical Examiner stated that casualties were caused by a long gun/rifle, which was later confirmed by various media reports as well as a definitive press release from the Connecticut State Police on January 18, 2013, giving details of the weapons recovered inside the school. In this video from December 15, 2012, Dr. H. Wayne Carver II, the Chief Medical Examiner of Connecticut, is asked about the wounds. At 1:13 he says "All the ones that I know of at this point were caused by the long weapon." The NBC report now carries the following message: "Editor’s note: Later on Dec. 15, officials updated the public on this story. For more details see NBCNews.com/shooting-update." On March 28, 2013, MSNBC, along with other news organizations, published court documents showing that the Bushmaster rifle was the primary weapon used in the school shooting. The NBC report has been discussed before on this talk page and continues to be posted about at Article Feedback. Talk page/Archive3/Bushmaster rifle Talk page/Archive 3/Weapon used was a rifle Talk page/Archive 5/Handguns or Bushmaster? If this information does not answer your questions, you can perform a search of this Talk page's Archives by typing your search term into the white box above and then clicking on the Search Archive button beside it. You can still post a message on this talk page if your concerns were not addressed by past discussions or if you think that there is something that could change consensus on this issue. Q5: I have an issue with Asperger syndrome being mentioned in the article. A5: Various people told investigators and the media that Adam Lanza had received a diagnosis of AS. Medical experts have said that even if he did receive this diagnosis, it would not provide an explanation for the shooting. The article attempts to put this into context. Q6: Why does the article not give a motive for the shooting? A6: Investigators have not made any public comment on what the motive might have been. The media has suggested several possibilities, but they are all speculative at the current time. Q7: I heard about who supposedly could have some connection to the crime...why isn't this in the article? A7: Since the shooting occurred, news reports, especially the early ones, have reported on connections that various people might have had with the crime, but those reports have usually turned out to be erroneous and have maligned innocent people. If you have come to this talk page to post a theory that is not supported by multiple up-to-date reliable sources, please note that Misplaced Pages policies about living persons apply across the entire encyclopedia. Posts that are judged to be against Misplaced Pages policies will be removed. Q8: I heard that Adam Lanza's death record said that he died the day before the shooting. A8: Numerous blogs have claimed this, but they have all cited a page on www.genealogy.com, which is not a reliable source and has a disclaimer about its accuracy. Unless this is confirmed by mainstream media sources, it will not be added to the article. Q9: Why isn't there a separate article about Adam Lanza or other members of the Lanza family? A9: This issue has been previously discussed at least four times on this talk page as seen in the following Archive pages: Archive 2 at Adam Lanza article? Archive 4 at Separate article for Adam Lanza? Archive 5 at Adam Lanza standalone article? Archive 7 at Separate article for Adam Lanza?. The general editorial consensus of these discussions was that there is not enough notability for an Adam Lanza Misplaced Pages article to be sustained on its own and that, unless new information from reliable sources is presented, any possible Adam Lanza article would essentially be a WP:CONTENTFORK of this article. Also, this Question/Answer is being posted here in the FAQ to let present and future readers that this matter has been discussed before, not to forestall any further discussion. Q10: I heard Adam Lanza's YouTube channel was discovered. Why isn't it in the article? A10: Despite compelling circumstantial evidence, no reliable sources have reported on Lanza's supposed YouTube channel. As such, any speculation regarding his YouTube activity is original research, which is unsuitable for Misplaced Pages articles.

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination: speedy keep, 15 December 2012, see discussion. speedy keep, 14 December 2012, see discussion.

A news item involving Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the In the news section on 14 December 2012.

A fact from this article was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the On this day section on December 14, 2015.

This article has been mentioned by a media organization: "How does Misplaced Pages deal with a mass shooting? A frenzied start gives way to a few core editors". Nieman Journalism Lab. December 18, 2012.

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

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Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10Auto-archiving period: 30 days

Adam Lanza

I propose that the section on Adam Lanza should be split into another article. The section is about 12,000 bytes, so it's a pretty huge chunk of this article. The article is over 167,000 bytes long, so a split is definitely necessary per WP:TOOBIG. Kylo, Rey, & Finn Consortium (talk) 13:09, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

This has been discussed before and the past consensus is not to do this.--♦IanMacM♦ 14:56, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

This issue has been discussed 4 times before (see Q9/A9 above) but in light of recent events revisiting the issue would seem to be in order. So, in that event see below... Shearonink (talk) 16:14, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Disagree. I just don't think it's necessary. There's nothing new that has come out about Lanza so it looks to me that a standalone article would then basically just be a copy/paste of the present content of the Perpetrator section. WP:TOOBIG/WP:SIZERULE/the Size guideline (divide at 100/60/50kb etc) does not apply in this case. I just ran a "Page size" tool on the Perpetrator section and the readable prose size for the section came out to 982/5.8kb, the article itself came out to 39 kb/6643 words. Maybe there are some policies/guidelines that would cover my other thoughts about this but I don't feel like thinking about it now. Will add further explanation later if I have time.Shearonink (talk) 16:14, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Disagree. Also don't think it's necessary. Clearly there are cases where the sheer volume of info, or subsequent trial, life, etc justify a seperate article. However since none of those apply here, this is just an unnec. contentfork. Pincrete (talk) 18:14, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Disagree. Just to clarify, I don't agree with a split per the previous discussions.--♦IanMacM♦ 18:16, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Agree. I think that in an article of this length there needs to be a separate article for the perpetrator. It would make the article easier to navigate. Tigerboy1966  22:20, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

• WTF? Does anyone even care about WP:ARTICLESIZE, or are we going to keep this page one huge unnavigable mess? I disagree with Q9/A9. This should be changed, ASAP. Kylo, Rey, & Finn Consortium (talk) 00:33, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

I've posted a request for comment on situations like this on the Village Pump. I suspect we need general policy guidelines. Bdushaw (talk) 12:16, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Agree. There is enough interest and background on the shooter Lanza to make a separate article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.250.7.237 (talk) 11:22, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

There might be enough interest to have a separate article. Re: editors' thoughts about article length - I would like to mention that WP:SIZERULE would not seem to apply in this case. That guideline says that if an article has less than 40kB of readable prose size, "length alone does not justify division". This article clocks in at 39. Shearonink (talk) 12:14, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

Agreed, there may have been some confusion here, because WP:SIZERULE doesn't include HTML markup, citations etc. The article prose isn't excessively long, and the past consensus is that a separate article for Adam Lanza would be an unnecessary content fork.--♦IanMacM♦ 16:18, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

Agree split into another article. The article would be much cleaner if there was a separate article for the murderer, and only the most basic biographic facts were presented on the massacre's page. Right now, this is a navigational mess. XavierItzm (talk) 07:49, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

Disagree. By doing this, you would be partially vindicating Lanza, which I'm sure you must find morally reprehensible. SaucyJimmy (talk) 20:25, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Disagree. His only significance is related to this massacre. Furthermore, going beyond raw logic here, but do we really want to incentivize would-be spree shooters by immortalizing them on Misplaced Pages? Obviously I'm not proposing a spree shooter blackout, but the difference between "own article" and "part of a larger article" is pretty significant, psychologically speaking. Sarysa (talk) 18:06, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Second injury name

Please include the following citations for Deborah Pisani being the second person injured, as her name is not in the current citation given:

<ref>{{Cite news|url=http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/chilling-book-excerpts-detail-newtown-massacre-article-1.1534303|title=NEWTOWN: Exclusive book excerpts detail how Adam Lanza massacred 20 children and six adults|publisher=New York Daily News|author=Matthew Lysiak|quote=Kindergarten aide Deborah Pisani was forty feet down the hallway as the scene unfolded. She was frantically trying to bolt her door, which only locked from the outside, when a ricochet bullet struck her foot.|date=December 2, 2013|accessdate=June 29, 2016}}</ref><ref>{{Cite news|url=http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-sandy-hook-lanza-lawsuit-20150313-story.html|title=Families Of Sandy Hook Victims Sue Nancy Lanza Estate|publisher=Hartford Courant|author=Dave Altimari|quote=...and two teachers who were injured, Natalie Hammond and Deborah Pisani.|date=March 14, 2015|accessdate=June 29, 2016}}</ref>

Direct links to citations for anyone who wants to check:

• NEWTOWN: Exclusive book excerpts detail how Adam Lanza massacred 20 children and six adults
• Families Of Sandy Hook Victims Sue Nancy Lanza Estate— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:646:8602:e570:41c1:5902:e4c1:bf8c (talk • contribs) 06:12, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

The official investigation did not reach firm conclusions about the exact sequence of the shooting. It began in the north hallway before moving into classrooms 8 and 10, the order of which is also unknown. Deborah Pisani is given in the infobox as one of the wounded, and the cite from the Hartford Courant has been added. I'm a bit wary of using Matthew Lysiak's book as a source, because he has previously said that authorities knew that Adam Lanza was the person in the Dance Dance Revolution video, when all that the final report said was that GPS readings showed that he had regularly visited the theater. Although he may be the person in the video, authorities never said that it was him.--♦IanMacM♦ 06:47, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Neutrality?

"Sandy Hook conspiracy theories have become social phenomena, despite overwhelming contemporary coverage of the incident." is the only mention, without detail, not even a paragraph. "Despite" should be "in spite and despite". "Contemporary coverage" should be "mainstream media coverage" or if needs "contemporary mainstream media coverage" with all that does or does not imply. ~ JasonCarswell (talk) 17:28, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

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