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:::On what basis can you assert that EU and China are not superpowers? There is no formal definition and so, by implication, any claims are subjective - hence this is not an impartial article. ] (]) 13:53, 1 May 2016 (UTC) :::On what basis can you assert that EU and China are not superpowers? There is no formal definition and so, by implication, any claims are subjective - hence this is not an impartial article. ] (]) 13:53, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
::::The EU is falling apart. (] (]) 19:48, 15 July 2016 (UTC)) ::::The EU is falling apart. (] (]) 19:48, 15 July 2016 (UTC))

== RfC: Ottoman Empire superpower ==
{{Rfc top|Consensus is against the Ottoman empire being described as a super power. The majority opinion states that a superpower has global influence which the Ottoman did not have. There is strong support for "Great power" and really no posts objecting to it. But it was not asked as a question and was not discussed by all of the responses. But it may be the way to go. ] 03:05, 6 December 2015 (UTC)}}
Should the "Superpowers of the past" section contain the Ottoman Empire.

*"Ottoman Empire = historic superpower"... should they be listed alongside Ancient Egypt, the Persian Empire, the Greeks....etc ? -- ] (]) 22:29, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

===Sources ===
*Source deleted from the article = {{cite book|author=Peter Hamish Wilson|title=The Thirty Years War: Europe's Tragedy|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=XgtpAl8HzjcC&pg=PA76|year=2009|publisher=Harvard University Press|isbn=978-0-674-03634-5|page=76}}

*Other random sources
*{{cite book|author=Christopher Catherwood|title=A Brief History of the Middle East|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=JmPBBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT100|date=24 February 2011|publisher=Churchill College|isbn=978-1-84901-807-4|page=100}}
*{{cite book|author=Cathy Gere|title=The Tomb of Agamemnon: Mycenae and the Search for a Hero|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=2VwH6Thk4ZgC&pg=PA47|year=2011|publisher=Profile Books|isbn=1-84765-376-6|page=47}}
*{{cite book|author=Beyza Ç Tekin|title=Representations and Othering in Discourse: The Construction of Turkey in the EU Context|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=gRtpeH-_YKYC&pg=PA44|year=2010|publisher=John Benjamins Publishing|isbn=90-272-0630-9|page=44}}
*{{cite book|author=Zion Zohar|title=Sephardic and Mizrahi Jewry: From the Golden Age of Spain to Modern Times|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=4vg0RdqjNV0C&pg=PA152|date=1 June 2005|publisher=NYU Press|isbn=978-0-8147-9705-1|page=152}}
*{{cite book|author=Richard Thornton|title=Earthfast, the Dawn of a New World|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=03-UBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA12|year=2014|publisher=Lulu|isbn=978-1-304-43420-3|page=12}}

===Comments ===
:Several problems with that. First of all: The rather ill defined definition in the article refers only to the modern use, which refers only to powers that were a superpower after 1944. The Ottoman empire had long been resolved by that time. Secondly: the definition explicitly refer to a global scale of projecting power. While the Ottoman empire was definitely a great power, it never project both military and diplomatic to all continents (e.g. it never was a power in the Americas or Oceania). The historisation of the term superpower as done in your sources should be agreed upon, and if we go that way it is obvious the Roman empire and perhaps the early Chinese empires should also be listed. I am afraid that would involve a lot of original research though. ] (]) 20:24, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
::: Roman empire and Chinese empires are mentioned in the article in the section called "Superpowers of the past". -- ] (]) 21:45, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
::::I agree with ]. It was a term first coined in 1943 and there have been attempts to apply it to past empires. If there was a reliable, third-party source (and I haven't checked the sources provided) then OK. But I think that it will be tough. Great Power, yes. Superpower? Tough. --] (]) 14:16, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

:::::@]. After re-reading the section I have to concede that you do have, to some extent, a point. If we adapt the definition (economic and military power at global scale) to ancient cultures, we should transfer it to "the known world". That would bring Ancient Egypt, Rome, Mongol and Spanish Empires inside the definition of Superpower. In fact the military projection of China around 1400 extended further than either Egyptian, Roman or Mongol military ever did (with expeditions to Africa). So China might be labelled an all out superpower at that time (although the article now only lists it as economic superpower).

:::::The other listees are more problematic. The Persian Empire was always limited by Greek and Egyptian counterforces, Alexander's empire did not project westward to the well-known Italian countries, and was if you look at it critically hardly more than a single blitzkrieg type assault as the empire was never consolidated. Similarly Napoleons French Empire never projected any major naval power threatening (by then well known) regions outside Europe (and also lasted only about a decade). So calling any of these a superpower would be opening the scope for other empires that not fully fit the definition.

:::::Now to Ottoman. It has existed and been a great power for a long time (approx. 1400-1900); so on that account it was more of a power than Alexander or Napoleontic empires. It has always been confined by Anglo or French colonies in Africa, the Russian empire and European countries; but in that it was hardly different from the Persian empires. Still the fact that it existed at a time that all continents were discovered raises the bar for global projection so that comparison may not totally fly.

:::::All in all, this analysis makes me critical about the whole section: Past superpowers, but it largely undermines my earlier objection. The somewhat overly Western bias in the current listing of past superpowers make me tend to adding the Ottoman empire, if only to limit that bias. ] (]) 17:45, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

:::: There is something non-encyclopedic feeling about this section. I think the problem may lie with the use of the word "SuperPower" being applied to empires that existed prior to when the term was first coined in 1943. I would suggest a different title such as "Great empires of the past". Either that or create a definition of Superpower based on criteria from reliable sources and then compare past empires to that criteria. For what it is worth however, in the most conversational sense, I would not argue with someone who called the Ottoman Empire a superpower of the past. ] (]) 19:35, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
:::::: I just tried something. This article is both about a word and the phenomenon it describes. I change the first sentence of the article a bit to see if it put the rest of the article in a more accurate context. I think it does. Thoughts? If someone strongly disagrees and wants to change it back it is fine with me. I just think this may help. ] (]) 19:44, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
:::::"Great empires of the past"? I see two problems with it. It would probably have the same scope as ] and ] (which currently includes 215 empires). The other is that the list of past powers, imperial or not, is currently handled by our articles ], ], ]. The latter tree were recently divided from a common list. Here is in summary which powers are included as great powers. Not certain if they also qualify as superpowers of their respective eras.
*Babylonia.
*Sumer and Akkad.
*Elam.
*Mitanni.
*Assyria.
*Hittite Empire.
*Phoenicia.
*Median Empire.
*Achaemenid Empire.
*Parthian Empire.
*Sassanid Empire.
*Carthaginian Empire.
*Ancient Egypt.
*Kerma.
*Kush.
*Aksumite Empire.
*Macrobia.
*Ancient Athens.
*Sparta.
*Macedonia.
*Seleucid Empire.
*Ptolemaic Empire.
*Roman Empire.
*Indus Valley Civilization.
*Āryāvarta.
*Nanda Empire.
*Maurya Empire.
*Shunga Empire.
*Satavahana Empire.
*Chola Empire.
*Gupta Empire.
*Shang Kingdom.
*Zhou Kingdom.
*Qin Empire.
*Han Empire.
*Jin Empire.
*Scythia.
*Sarmatia.
*Xiongnu.
*Hunnic Empire.
*Byzantine Empire.
*Great Seljuk Empire.
*Rashidun Caliphate.
*Umayyad Caliphate.
*Abbasid Caliphate.
*Al-Andalus.
*Fatimid Caliphate.
*Ayyubid Sultanate.
*Bahri Mamluks Empire.
*Bulgarian Empire.
*Ghaznavid Empire.
*Timurid Empire.
*Sui Empire.
*Tang Empire.
*Song Empire.
*Ming Empire.
*Turkic Khaganate.
*Uyghur Khaganate.
*Mongol Empire.
*Yuan Dynasty.
*Frankish Empire.
*Kingdom of Germany and Holy Roman Empire.
*Kingdom of Hungary.
*Jagiellon dynasty.
*Normans.
*Papacy and Papal States.
*Kingdom of Sicily.
*Republic of Genoa.
*Republic of Venice.
*Capetian Kingdom of France.
*Angevin Empire.
*Crown of Aragon.
*Kingdom of Castile and Crown of Castile.
*Kalmar Union.
*Ghana Empire.
*Mali Empire.
*Songhai Empire.
*Ajuran Empire.
*Ethiopian Empire.
*Kingdom of Zimbabwe.
*Chalukya Empire.
*Rashtrakuta Empire.
*Pala Empire.
*Khmer Empire.
*Srivijaya.
*Maya Civilization.
*Inca Empire.
*Aztec Empire.
*France (France in the Middle Ages and French colonial empire).
*Qing Empire.
*Safavid Empire.
*Dutch Republic.
*British Empire.
*Mughal Empire.
*Ottoman Empire.
*Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
*Portuguese Empire.
*Prussia.
*Spanish Empire.
*Swedish Empire.
*Moscovia, Tsardom of Russia and Russian Empire.
*Persian Qajar Empire.
*Kingdom of the Netherlands and Dutch Empire.
*French colonial empire.
*Late British Empire.
*Late Spanish Empire.
*Empire of Austria and Austria-Hungary.
*Prussia, German Empire and Germany.
*Late Ottoman Empire.
*Russian Empire and Soviet Union.
*Italian colonial empire.
*Empire of Japan.
*United States.
**Any comments on the relative extend of their influence on human history? ] (]) 22:24, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

:::::: It's this editor's opinion that the entire concept of applying the terminology of 'Superpower', a term created solely to explain the unprecedented bipolar dominance of the United States and the Soviet Union, to pre-20th century empires is inherently flawed from the start.

:::::: In any case, the Ottoman Empire, by the definition of a superpower as a country with a unparalleled ability to exert its influence on a global scale, cannot be considered as a superpower. An argument is made that superpowers are to be measured as their 'global' dominance in what they saw as their known world fails to aid the Ottoman case. The existence of China and India was well established during the entire time period of the Ottoman Empire, yet the Ottoman influence on the Great Power of Ming China and large swathes of land such as the subcontinent of India was minimal. The Ottomans also played a negligible role in the Americas when they were discovered.
:::::: ] (]) 02:00, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

*I would '''support''' the inclusion of the Ottomans as a historic superpower. The first source alone has a reputable historians published by a university press, calling the Ottomans a "superpower of the ]" and that seems to be the standard for the other superpowers of the past in the article (]). ---- ] - <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub> 05:46, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

*'''Two comments''' Firstly, I agree with those who say that it is inherently problematic to 'pre-date' this word, ''(see comments below)''. Secondly, a small number of academic sources saying that this/that empire IS a super-power is a very, very low threshold of proof, is the description generally accepted among historians? 'Older empires which have sometimes been described' is what is proven rather than 'is'. ] (]) 07:51, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

* '''Support''' - it seems an obvious pick and short list that says it's informal also-use does not need extreme support and it suits to have the line be short and show a variety. Could cite "a super-power of a million square miles. From its capital in Istanbul it matched the glories of Ancient Rome" just to show the term does get applied, inappropriately or not. The lengthy ask above re lists such as ] or whatever seems off topic as only this one is asked about, and the objection that only ones reaching America count also seems off. Could argue their size in world trade at the time, geographic scope, effects on world history -- but come ON, it's just a short illustrative list, not a Big Deal. ] (]) 19:55, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

::Comment on the above. An obvious pick sounds very much like original research. We really need reliable sources here, which are (by the way) largely lacking in the list of medieval great powers article you are referring to, making that list a problematic Misplaced Pages article. ] (]) 20:50, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
* '''Comment''' I'd prefer the wording "Great Power" because the word "superpower" to me is associated with the Cold War. USA and Soviet Union. The Ottoman Empire was however certainly a great power. Although I have more doubts about some other entries in the list. Basically I agree with the initial comments by ] and ]. ] (]) 15:17, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
*'''Comment.''' Referring to superpowers in the period before the 1940s is an anachronism. The term was introduced because there was a quite obvious difference between the most powerful great powers of the second half of the 20th century and other great powers: the former could/can destroy the whole world while the latter could/can "only" conquer large territories. The Ottoman Empire could conquer large territories in Asia, Afrika, Souhteastern and Central Europe, but it could not directly influence the history of America, Australia, sub-Saharan Africa, etc. ] (]) 03:41, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
{{Rfc bottom}}

== Vague, confusing definitions ==
Currently, the article is a mix of "why the US is currently the most powerful" and a surprisingly little amount of history. The most confusing part of the article is that it says " is traditionally considered to be a step higher than a superpower," when this is clearly not the case. The article shows why the US is a superpower ("the capacity to project dominating power and influence anywhere in the world, and sometimes, in more than one region of the globe at a time"), but not why the US would be a hyperpower ("a state that dominates all other states in every sphere of activity"). The last one is certainly ''not'' the case. While the US does indeed have large influence worldwide, it is in no means a world ] and does not dominate ''all'' other countries in the world in ''every'' sphere of activity. The ], on the other hand, WAS a hyperpower around 500BC, but was not a superpower (according to the definitions in this article). It had no rival on the entire Earth in terms of population, military, economy and other matters, but it still could not influence events in, say, South America. The same was the case in the glory days of the ]. Ergo saying that "hyperpower" is above "superpower" would only be true in modern times.

Furthermore, when we have one source define "superpower" and another tabloid source call something a "superpower" you get this kind of confusion. Also odd is that the article never specifies when the US, British Empire and Soviet Union became superpowers. At the start of WW2, the American military could not yet defeat Nazi Germany, the British Empire or the Soviet Union on its own.

Lastly, the article rejects Europe as a superpower because it's not traditionally a country, while the text actually mentions an ''entity''. Philip T. Hoffman, Rea A. and Lela G. Axline Professor of Business Economics and Professor of History at the California Institute of Technology, wrote that details "Europe’s historic global supremacy". So then once again, we find ambiguity limiting the scope of the article. Does the exact word "superpower" have to be used? If so, this would be more of a dictionary article than one about the concept (which, as I mentioned, is still ill-defined). ] (]) 16:50, 31 March 2016 (UTC)


== Is the United States still the only superpower? == == Is the United States still the only superpower? ==

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Potential superpower

This article is not a GA. Anyways, @Heuh0: what are your reasons behind removing the specific mention of the USA? OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 01:26, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

My problem was not so much with mentioning the US, but mentioning the US specifically it is argued by many that the EU and China are also superpowers, the EU even has a bigger economy as well as many other things. It is misleading to name US exclusively as the superpower, as this is not a consensus. Additionally it isn misleading to group India with the EU and China. It situations like this, due avoid misleading you must be a broad ass possible but to still give the relevant information, which has been given. DocHeuh (talk) 02:20, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Such argument leads to a number of off topic discussion that we many of us had before. EU and China are not superpowers. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 02:27, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
On what basis can you assert that EU and China are not superpowers? There is no formal definition and so, by implication, any claims are subjective - hence this is not an impartial article. Ag1975e (talk) 13:53, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
The EU is falling apart. (165.120.240.48 (talk) 19:48, 15 July 2016 (UTC))

Is the United States still the only superpower?

It's biased to suggest this because many have argued China is now a superpower. (165.120.240.48 (talk) 18:38, 15 July 2016 (UTC))

Only the United States is widely held among political scientists as being a superpower. Therefore, it is not bias, but a reflection of the overwhelming majority of experts. Antiochus the Great (talk) 18:43, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
China is now regularly described as the world economic superpower. (165.120.240.48 (talk) 18:44, 15 July 2016 (UTC))
You said it yourself, "economic superpower". China may have the economy of a superpower, but that is where it ends. This article is not concerned with economics, or merely one aspect of a superpower - this article is about full-fledged superpowers in every domain.Antiochus the Great (talk) 18:49, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
But China is not interested in fighting wars. The source is only an opinion piece by a US publication. (165.120.240.48 (talk) 18:51, 15 July 2016 (UTC))
Interest in fighting wars isn't one of the factors that makes one country a superpower, and the publications are RS, whether based in the United States or not. - SantiLak (talk) 20:31, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
With the end of conventional wars the term superpower is being redefined in the 21st century. China does not need to be a military superpower in order to bankrupt the United States. (81.132.48.149 (talk) 09:30, 19 July 2016 (UTC))

Can the original poster of this thread provide reliable secondary sources for their ideas. Otherwise this whole discussion is useless as without such sources no changes to the article would be acceptable. Arnoutf (talk) 09:54, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

An update to this article is probably overdue. According to this survey a plurality of international respondents said that China was likely to replace or already has replaced the US as the "superpower", although it does not define "superpower". That said it is probably no longer a controversial statement (as it would have been back in 2010) that China and the US are emerging as "binary superpowers" now, as described in the Group of Two article.Colipon+(Talk) 19:31, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

UK

The UK was no longer a superpower after World War II. (165.120.240.48 (talk) 18:42, 15 July 2016 (UTC))

Yes it was. The United Kingdom and the British Empire emerged from WWII and one of the "big three" principle powers, and was widely regarded (from academics, to politicians etc) as one of the three superpowers. There are references in the article explaining this already. Antiochus the Great (talk) 18:45, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
The UK was no longer a superpower by the end of World War II. The Atlantic Charter, the beginning of Lend-Lease and the Fall of Singapore ensured the complete collapse of the British Empire. The Suez Crisis showed only that the UK had not been a superpower since World War II. Most historians say the UK was no longer a superpower after Churchill signed away its empire in 1941. (165.120.240.48 (talk) 18:47, 15 July 2016 (UTC))
An article in "The Guardian" today said the UK was never a superpower, even in the 19th century, and that the United States was the only true superpower in history. (81.132.48.149 (talk) 11:40, 19 July 2016 (UTC))

This article or section might be slanted towards recent events. (May 2016)

This article or section might be slanted towards recent events. (May 2016)

What?Ernio48 (talk) 09:45, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

No idea. Removed. Rob984 (talk) 15:30, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

British Empire in Teal

The map showing the British Empire in teal is misleading, for instance, only part of Canada is coloured teal, none of Australia, but all of New Zealand. In fact, all should be entirely coloured teal as they all have the QEII as head of state. It looks as if this map is designed to minimise British influence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.59.155.129 (talk) 02:28, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Your arguments are similarly expressed by others in the talk page of the map in File talk:Superpower map 1945.png#Dominions. I rather hoped that the map's talk page would have an explanation, I'm sure there is one myself mind you. --User:Dwarf Kirlston - talk 03:01, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
User:ZaidRock11 responded over at the image talk page, seems adequate. The argument being that the Statute of Westminster 1931 gave Dominions independence. Seems reasonable to me.--User:Dwarf Kirlston - talk 18:37, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

US was the only superpower

The United States was the only superpower in the 20th century. The UK and the USSR were never on the same level. (81.132.49.250 (talk) 14:14, 28 December 2016 (UTC))

What? Pre-WW2, the US wouldn't be considered any more powerful then France, Germany or Japan. Pre-WW1, arguable the UK was the sole superpower. Rob984 (talk) 15:24, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
The US was clearly the industrial superpower in the first half of the 20th century, and arguably the economic superpower as well. The UK, USSR, France, Germany and Japan were never superpowers. Only the US - and now China - are actual superpowers. (81.132.49.1 (talk) 20:17, 28 December 2016 (UTC))
Personally I find reasonable that the USSR was a superpower in facts like that USSR was the first to put a man in space, to launch satellites, to invent cellphones. And that the US and the USSR divided the world about evenly from 1945 to 1989.
But hey, if you can find a reliable source that says that the US was the only superpower, maybe that could get included in the article. Search Google scholar!
--User:Dwarf Kirlston - talk 03:29, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
If you solely consider industrial power then China has been a superpower for a long time. That is certainly not the sole criteria for a superpower. The US was considered a superpower only after its militarisation up to and throughout WW2, and its alliances thereafter. Before this the US might have been economically powerful, but it was extremely non-interventionist. It didn't not join the League of Nations, it did nothing to counter the expansion of the Japanese Empire, took no stance during the Spanish Civil War, and it stayed neutral for much of WW2. To say the US—an isolationist country at the time—was more influential then Japan, the USSR, Britain, or France, which each had very an active role in international affairs, is preposterous. Rob984 (talk) 12:27, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Lede needs to be changed

China is clearly a superpower now, and the opinion of a dictator like Putin isn't reliable. (81.136.23.142 (talk) 02:13, 22 January 2017 (UTC))

Putin's quote in 2016 is reliable. China hasn't done anything differently than it did a year ago. Supergodzilla2090 (talk) 03:30, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
China has been a superpower for years now. Economically, industrially and militarily. (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:DDA5:7D80:4101:B8A2 (talk) 13:11, 22 January 2017 (UTC))
The IP is right. The Russian President may be considered a reputable source on the topic of geopolitics (though that is disputable), but he is certainly not impartial. Giving his view prominence like that is a breach of WP:NPOV. The statement "according to Russian President Putin and other sources, this has remained unchanged." is actually uncited. No source claims that no other source considers China a superpower. Rather it is that the editors of this article simply haven't found any sources claiming this to be the case. Editors of this article need to learn what Misplaced Pages is about.
All encyclopedic content on Misplaced Pages must be written from a neutral point of view (NPOV), which means representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic.
Only a minority of sources claim China to be a super power. So we should proportionately represent this view and provide counter arguments as to why it is a minority view. Not pretend this view doesn't exist.
Rob984 (talk) 14:44, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
China is the world superpower now. Putin's view is irrelevant as he has never won a free election. He has his own reasons for claiming the US as the only superpower, because China could easily bankrupt Russia at any moment. (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:DDA5:7D80:4101:B8A2 (talk) 15:02, 22 January 2017 (UTC))
Your POV is also irreverent. Find some sources, please. Rob984 (talk) 16:10, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
There are thousands of sources online describing China as the world superpower. (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:DDA5:7D80:4101:B8A2 (talk) 17:45, 22 January 2017 (UTC))
There are also thousands of sources online claiming evidence for aliens or magic. We need named, specific, and reliable sources. And it is up to those suggesting inclusion of new contents to provide these. Without such sources we cannot even begin considering inclusion of new information. Arnoutf (talk) 18:44, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
China has the largest and most powerful army in the world. So of course it's a superpower. (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:DDA5:7D80:4101:B8A2 (talk) 18:48, 22 January 2017 (UTC))
Provide a source plesase. Arnoutf (talk) 19:13, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
There are multiple sources saying China and Russia are both superpowers: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/07/china-russia-superpower-axis (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:DDA5:7D80:4101:B8A2 (talk) 19:17, 22 January 2017 (UTC))
Did you even read that article? The only time superpower is mentioned is, is in the heading, and even there accompanied by a question mark. Please do your homework before just dumping something in this discussion. Arnoutf (talk) 20:28, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
Here is a source from 2011: http://www.pewglobal.org/2011/07/13/china-seen-overtaking-us-as-global-superpower/ (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:DDA5:7D80:4101:B8A2 (talk) 20:50, 22 January 2017 (UTC))
Which is about an opinion poll among non-expert citizens and does not list any factcheck. Arnoutf (talk) 21:15, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
Who is an expert on the definition of a superpower? (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:DDA5:7D80:4101:B8A2 (talk) 23:23, 22 January 2017 (UTC))
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