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This is the discussion on whether it is Islamist terrorism - not terrorism in general, which it has been identified as. ~~ ]] 21:27, 7 April 2017 (UTC) This is the discussion on whether it is Islamist terrorism - not terrorism in general, which it has been identified as. ~~ ]] 21:27, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Isn't the ] great? Smfh. ] (]) 23:24, 7 April 2017 (UTC)


== Norrmalm == == Norrmalm ==

Revision as of 23:24, 7 April 2017

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Suspect

One media outlet described that the "driver is on the run". I have absolutely no idea whether this is correct or not, but if it is, it should be added to the main page possibly (once confirmed). 2A02:8388:1641:4700:BE5F:F4FF:FECD:7CB2 (talk) 14:07, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Could you give a link here? Firework917 (talk) 14:14, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Shots fired

I removed a sentence about shots fired; so far, this has not been confirmed, and Swedish media reporting this has been very clear it is hearsay in a chaotic situation. It can be added when confirmed, if it happened. /Julle (talk) 14:25, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

To illustrate, Swedish Radio just reported "... and the police now confirms shots have been fired at Fridhemsplan, but this might not have been related to the lorry attack" when the other reporter broke in and said "actually, we just got word that the police denies shots have been fired at Fridhemsplan", so this should probably not go into an encyclopedia right now. /Julle (talk) 14:39, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Fatalities

It seems like at least three persons are dead according to reasonably reliable media accounts, but there's a lot of confusion around this in Swedish media at the moment; I wouldn't put any specific number in the info box. /Julle (talk) 14:34, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

There's a '+5' in the infobox without citation at the moment. Thoughts on replacing it with "at least 3"? Proaralyst (talk) 14:50, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Terror

When police say they're treating a brand new case as terrorism, that means they'll use counterterrorism tactics to aid in their investigation into whether or not the suspect is a terrorist. It does not mean he definitely was, or even probably was. Since this suspect's not only completely unknown, motives and all, but apparently alive, he'll also have a murder trial (if police even press charges). If he's convicted of murder, this will be a murder. If he's convicted of terrorism (or terror stuff), this will be terrorism.

It's just dumb to jump the gun when the driver dies, but when he doesn't, it's libelous. We have rules about that sort of thing, so go easy on the murder and terrorism categories (by completely avoiding them). And remember that "terror" and "terrorism" are different words, just like all -ism words are. Encyclopedias aren't meant to be sensational and as fast as possible, but newspapers are. Don't play their game.

For my own sanity, I'm going to step away from this article (before the Reactions section shows up), but this guy was wondering why I removed dumb libel, so I thought I'd explain. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:08, April 7, 2017 (UTC)

It is clearly a terror a attack the Swedish PM has called it one.Apollo The Logician (talk) 17:08, 7 April 2017 (UTC) Apollo The Logician (talk) 17:08, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

"Islamic terrorism"

As I believe, there's no proof that it's linked to Islamic terrorism, although it's likely. I don't think people should jump to conclusions. ~~Wh1ter0se (talk) 17:58, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Its pretty much certain it was Islamic extremists.Apollo The Logician (talk) 17:09, 7 April 2017 (UTC) Apollo The Logician (talk) 17:09, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
If it's likely, then why bother censoring facts? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then... Cyrus the Penner (talk) 17:17, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
Gotta enjoy censorship. Cyrus the Penner (talk) 17:41, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
We don't report all facts; we only report verifiable facts. Unless reliable sources call it Islamic terrorism, neither do we. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 17:44, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
Given all of the recent vehicle-ramming attacks in Europe, I think it's safe to say there's an alarming pattern here. You can't deny it. Cyrus the Penner (talk) 17:46, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
(edit conflict) ...it doesn't mean zip for Misplaced Pages, as it is an encyclopedia and not a chrystal ball.

"This has happened:

  • At 2.53pm the police were alerted about a lorry having rammed several people in a busy street in central Stockholm.
  • At least 2 people are dead.
  • No arrests have been made.
  • There is no confirmation about the incident being a terrorist attack, the Swedish Security Service said.
  • However, at a press conference Prime Minister Stefan Löfven said: "Everything indicates this is a terror attack."
  • Large parts of central Stockholm are cordoned off.
  • All metro services are cancelled.
  • All trains passing Stockholm's Central Station have been cancelled.
  • The parliament building (Riksdag) and the government headquarters Rosenbad are in lock-down."— Swedish public radio Vivo (talk) 17:48, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
Isn't the religion of peace great? Smh. Cyrus the Penner (talk) 17:48, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
Please focus on improving the article, Cyrus the Penner. This talk page is not a forum for your opinions on anything else. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 17:51, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
In 2003 there was another ramming incident in central Stockholm. That time it was a mentally ill person. It could be that scenario, it could be terrorism. Let the newspapers be newspapers and encyclopedias encyclopedias. Vivo (talk) 17:54, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
Thats one very rare occurance. The RSs are calling it terrorism. It is overwhelmingly likely to be islamic terorism.Apollo The Logician (talk) 19:19, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
Patience is a virtue. Gravity 19:27, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

This is the discussion on whether it is Islamist terrorism - not terrorism in general, which it has been identified as. ~~ Wh1ter0seWh1ter0se 21:27, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Isn't the religion of peace great? Smfh. Cyrus the Penner (talk) 23:24, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Norrmalm

We might add a better map, zooming in on Norrmalm?--Rævhuld (talk) 19:38, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Use the word lorry

Dear community. This page is written in British English. So please use our words, instead of American -ish. It's lorry and not truck. Thank you.--Rævhuld (talk) 19:42, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Wrong. Truck was the wording originally used in the page and should be retained per MOS:RETAIN. MOS:RETAIN states "An article should not be edited or renamed simply to switch from one variety of English to another". There are no MOS:TIES here because Sweden is not an English-speaking nation. AusLondonder (talk) 19:45, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
But according to this talk page, the article should be written in British English.--Rævhuld (talk) 19:57, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
That template was added afterwards and I have now removed it as it violates MOS:RETAIN and MOS:TIES. AusLondonder (talk) 19:58, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
You are mistaken. It was added there before. And may I mention that Sweden is part of Europe? So we should use the European spelling and European words!--Rævhuld (talk) 20:00, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
No, it was not there before this version of the page was created. I'm well aware that Sweden is part of Europe. But Europe has no universal language. There is no such thing as "European spelling" and "European words". France24 is using truck; as is Deutsche Welle. Euronews is using both truck and lorry but with a clear preference for truck AusLondonder (talk) 20:04, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
The Swedish government emergency authorities are using truck as is the City of Stockholm. AusLondonder (talk) 20:10, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Sorry for confusion. I merly added the template after looking at Sweden, and seeing it was tagged with UK-English. I did not know (or remember rather) of WP:RETAIN. My bad! (t) Josve05a (c) 20:35, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

nb edit conflictThis is a very silly argument, RETAIN says that the first variety used should stay, and that may be UK. However, in a similair situation on the Nice attack article, we decided to use 'truck', since this was a more universally understood term. UK sources frquently use it these days. Pincrete (talk) 20:40, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
The first variety used was truck anyway. AusLondonder (talk) 20:53, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Upload the image of the suspect

There are two images from the Swedish police here. Should we integrate it into the article?--Rævhuld (talk) 20:00, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Stockholm Waterfront

Hi TompaDompa. I thought part of the incident occurred right outside the complex? Ceannlann gorm (talk) 21:32, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

@Ceannlann gorm: Not right outside it. It was a few blocks away, as can be seen on this map. TompaDompa (talk) 21:38, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
@TompaDompa: Ok, thanks! Ceannlann gorm (talk) 21:40, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

BOLO of the man wanted for questioning

I removed the part about him having dark skin, because I don't see how it is relevant. No article or official statement mentions his skin color, instead they focus on his clothing. My reason stated was: "No article or police statement has brought up the person's skin as a BOLO, however they mention his clothes: green jacket, white shoes and grey hoodie. Ex: http://nyheter24.se/nyheter/inrikes/881354-man-fri-fot-kannetecken".

This was however added back with the reasoning "it is clear from the picture.". Perhaps, but I still don't think it is relevant and seems to me to be more of a bias than sticking to what is being posted to quote Finnusertop under the topic of "Islamic Terrorism": "We don't report all facts; we only report verifiable facts. Unless reliable sources call it Islamic terrorism, neither do we." (the same should apply to this, no?)

I propose that the part about the skin color be removed, but I won't remove it again since it was re-added already. 155.4.131.112 (talk) 22:11, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Perpetrator

The perpetrator section is simply for those who are involved in carrying out the act act. I don't know how "Islamic State-inspired" is supposed to be someone. We never present a perpetrator section upon whom they are inspired, unless that group is directly involved they are not listed. A simple sympathy for ISIL doesn't justify adding "IS-inspired" to the perpetrator as it against the very definition and use of the section in the infobox. If this is a lone wolf simply inspired by them, then the assailant is the perpetrator. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 22:19, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

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