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Revision as of 17:57, 28 May 2017 editMaunus (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers60,261 edits →Qualifiers like "fundamentalism" and "extremist"← Previous edit Revision as of 18:16, 28 May 2017 edit undoVanamonde93 (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Checkusers, Oversighters, Administrators80,548 edits →Qualifiers like "fundamentalism" and "extremist": re to maunusNext edit →
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*It is clear that the majority of the relevant scholarship considers Bajrang Dal to be en example of extremist hindu nationalism and fundamentalism. That is what the article needs to reflect. Is this article not within the scope of the topic of "Indian history broadly construed" by the way?] · ] 17:57, 28 May 2017 (UTC) *It is clear that the majority of the relevant scholarship considers Bajrang Dal to be en example of extremist hindu nationalism and fundamentalism. That is what the article needs to reflect. Is this article not within the scope of the topic of "Indian history broadly construed" by the way?] · ] 17:57, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
:*It probably is. I've pointed it out on YK's talk page. Most of the quibbling since has been about YK wanting to use his translation of "Hindutva", and so I haven't bothered trying to wikilawyer him into a block. If he decides to get into the history of the BD's activities, well, that's a different matter. ] (]) 18:16, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 28 January 2016

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The Bajrang Dal (IPA:Bajaraṅga Dala) is a Hindu beliefs organisation that forms the youth wing of the Vishva Hindu Parishad (VHP).

Gbkb16 (talk) 06:11, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

 Not done. Reliable sources have been provided which state that it is a "militant" organisation. Please consult them. - Kautilya3 (talk) 11:08, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

which reliable source are you talking about? please provide the complete detail or remove the word militant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sk234 (talk • contribs) 15:54, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

@Sk234: At the end of the sentence you find two footnotes . Please consult them. But, honestly, there are hundreds of sources that describe Bajrang Dal as a militant organisation. This is not a battle you want to fight. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 17:27, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 February 2016

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The Bajrang Dal (IPA:Bajaraṅga Dala) is a Hindu organisation that forms the youth wing of the Vishva Hindu Parishad (VHP) and a member of the RSS family of organisations. The ideology of the organisation is based on Hindu fundamentalism. Founded on 1 October 1984 in Uttar Pradesh, it has since spread throughout India, although its most significant base remains the northern and central portions of the country. The group runs about 2,500 akhadas, similar to the shakhas (branches) of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh. The name "Bajrang" is a reference to the Hindu deity Hanuman.

The Bajrang Dal's slogan is 'Sevā Surakṣā Sanskṛti' or "service, safety and culture." One of the main goals of the Dal is to build the Ramjanmabhoomi temple in Ayodhya, the Krishnajanmabhoomi temple in Mathura and the Kashi Vishwanath temple in Varanasi, which are currently disputed places of worship. Other goals include protecting India's "Hindu" identity from the perceived dangers of communism, Muslim demographic growth and Christian conversion, as well as the prevention of cow slaughter. Gbkb16 (talk) 09:51, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Also, reliable sources are needed. Bazj (talk) 10:26, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
 Not done With due respect, Bazj, it is clear what the editor making the request wants; this is a slight wording change to the first two paragraphs. However, this is not reason enough to make the change. The current wording is supported by reliable sources. To change it, you need to provide reliable sources of equal weight that contradict the narrative presented here. Vanamonde93 (talk) 14:36, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Ajay t9 edit

@Ajay t9: reliably sourced content should never be deleted without consensus. You deletion is based on personal opinion and WP:OR, which has no place on Misplaced Pages. Government opinions are also largely irrelevant. Reliable sources are all that matter. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 16:58, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Bajrang Dal/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Mr. Goldstein Orwell,

May I ask why you have removed every single authentic and very well cited edits? Every single edit I did was cited, supported, and consistent with the reports of the highly reputable and the largest Indian newspapers (among others, the Times of India and the Hindu) and BBC. You can click on every single link to verify that my edits were consistent with the historical news reports. My edits are necessary because they play a vital role in balancing, otherwise highly inaccurate, distorted and biased views.

I would also like to know the exact words that might have violated your policies, so I can use the vocabulary consistent with your policies.

Thanks

Last edited at 01:00, 28 August 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 08:51, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 August 2016

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Sk234 (talk) 15:52, 30 August 2016 (UTC) The Bajrang Dal is a youth orgnisation, committed for nourishment and devlopment of the India's youth.

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Dat GuyContribs 16:42, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

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Qualifiers like "fundamentalism" and "extremist"

@Vanamonde93: 1. Qualifiers like Hindu fundamentalist and extremist are used, changes were undone, sources and are print sources, will quotations be provided in support, in too the phrase "Hindu fundamentalist is not used. Also suraksha in the context translates to security; such as suraksha dal means security forces, pl show sources that translate it to safety in the context. Pl discuss. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 15:16, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

@Yogesh Khandke: You have this backwards. If you do not have access to the print sources, as you just admitted, then the changes you made were simply based on what you thought should be in the article. That is original research, and I don't have to justify anything else about my revert. If there is disagreement over the translation, you should find a source to support your statement, in the context of this slogan; or remove it altogether. Using a piped link to change "Hindutva" to "Hinduness" is a real NPOV problem; even if that is the origin of the term, virtually all scholars today use "Hindutva" to represent the ideology of majoritarian Hindu nationalism. Finally, a ping will not work unless you add both it and your signature in the same edit. Vanamonde (talk) 05:46, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
@Vanamonde93: 1.Thanks about the "ping" heads up. 2. Hinduness is the meaning in English of the term, and since this is an English encyclopaedia use of an available English word is imo more appropriate and neutral, and not the use of a loaded poorly understood,demonised Sanskrit word.. 3. It is inappropriate to use qualifiers like "extremist" and "fundamentalist" to an organisation based on how its opponents describe it. (In the lead, of course there is the controversies section for that.) That is no wp:OR this article itself informs "The Bajrang Dal is not against any religion. It acknowledges respecting the faith of other people, but expects and asserts for a similar respect of the Hindu Sentiments. Being Hindu, the Bajrang Dal believes in validity of All Religions and Respect for all human beings, irrespective of caste, color, and religion (Aatmasvat Sarva Bhuteshu). It is for this purpose that the Bajrang Dal has undertaken various public-awakening campaigns. It does not believe in violence or any unlawful activity." By which yardstick is this "extremist or fundamentalist", interestingly Sarva Bhuteshu in Atmasat Sarva Bhuteshu, translates as all living beings and not humans so it is a statement of anti-Speciesism. 4. Seva, Suraksha, Sanskar translate as "Service, Security, Embellishment", pl change if you wish source here 5. Please incorporate concerns mentioned above, as I do not have the bandwidth at the moment to engage in a ping-pong discussions, I will make only one edit and change human beings to every living being, evidence here Yogesh Khandke (talk) 23:14, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
Second thoughts on (5) above since it is mis-translated in the original, I will not change that, though I could add a note some day. Tx. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 23:19, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
@Yogesh Khandke: For an editor who has been around for a long time, your arguments are very poorly formed indeed. If you consider scholars to be "opponents" of the Bajrang Dal, that is your affair; Misplaced Pages will continue to be based on what reliable sources say, and in this case they support the descriptors in the article. Indeed, the article is a lot milder than what many scholars say. Likewise, if you want to change the translation, find a source; if you think the term "Hindutva" is "demonized" and is thus an NPOV problem, once again, find a source that says that the Bajrang Dal supports "Hinduness" and not "Hindutva" as the ideology is commonly understood. If you do not have sufficient internet access, we can wait until you do. There is no deadline. Vanamonde (talk) 07:36, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
@Vanamonde93:."Bandwidth - Something business people say to describe the resources needed to complete a task or project. Eg. We don't have the bandwidth to completet that project."
@Yogesh Khandke: Well, I am not a businessman, and I use the word in its conventional sense. If you have other things on your mind, my comment still applies. Vanamonde (talk) 14:47, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
@Vanamonde93: Language is a dynamic system. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 17:07, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
@Yogesh Khandke: When you get back on topic, I'll be waiting. Vanamonde (talk) 17:10, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
Sorry meant to share this thanks & bye for now. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 17:19, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
  • It is clear that the majority of the relevant scholarship considers Bajrang Dal to be en example of extremist hindu nationalism and fundamentalism. That is what the article needs to reflect. Is this article not within the scope of the topic of "Indian history broadly construed" by the way?·maunus · snunɐɯ· 17:57, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
  • It probably is. I've pointed it out on YK's talk page. Most of the quibbling since has been about YK wanting to use his translation of "Hindutva", and so I haven't bothered trying to wikilawyer him into a block. If he decides to get into the history of the BD's activities, well, that's a different matter. Vanamonde (talk) 18:16, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
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