Misplaced Pages

Talk:Henri Matisse: Difference between revisions

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
Browse history interactively← Previous editNext edit →Content deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 04:48, 4 June 2017 editEwulp (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Rollbackers40,309 edits →Lead section: new section← Previous edit Revision as of 04:56, 4 June 2017 edit undoEwulp (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Rollbackers40,309 edits →Lead section: tweakNext edit →
Line 192: Line 192:
The source cited for Duchamp's inclusion here is a survey of British art professionals whose top five list puts Matisse behind Duchamp, Picasso, and Warhol. Surely Warhol doesn't need to be mentioned in the lead too? We have seen elsewhere that this kind of ranking in a lead section is contentious. It seems better to relegate it to the Legacy section where the context can be described. The source cited for Duchamp's inclusion here is a survey of British art professionals whose top five list puts Matisse behind Duchamp, Picasso, and Warhol. Surely Warhol doesn't need to be mentioned in the lead too? We have seen elsewhere that this kind of ranking in a lead section is contentious. It seems better to relegate it to the Legacy section where the context can be described.


Mention of Picasso in the lead is justifiable; Matisse and Picasso were self-conscious rivals as noted in the article, and you would expect this to be mentioned in a well-developed lead. Our third sentence—"Matisse is commonly regarded, along with Pablo Picasso, as one of the artists who best helped to define the revolutionary developments in the visual arts throughout the opening decades of the twentieth century, responsible for significant developments in painting and sculpture"—is accurate and sourced. The careful wording does not seem to me to imply that these two stood entirely alone in defining revolutionary developments in the visual arts. If there's any disagreement on this point, let's rephrase to make it unambiguous—or separate Picasso from this sentence, and mention him elsewhere. ] (]) 04:48, 4 June 2017 (UTC) Matisse and Picasso were self-conscious rivals as noted in the article, and this deserves mention in a well-developed lead. Our third sentence—"Matisse is commonly regarded, along with Pablo Picasso, as one of the artists who best helped to define the revolutionary developments in the visual arts throughout the opening decades of the twentieth century, responsible for significant developments in painting and sculpture"—is accurate and sourced. The careful wording does not seem to me to imply that these two stood entirely alone in defining revolutionary developments in the visual arts. If there's any disagreement on this point, let's rephrase to make it unambiguous—or separate Picasso from this sentence, and mention him elsewhere. ] (]) 04:48, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Revision as of 04:56, 4 June 2017

Template:Vital article

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
WikiProject iconFrance High‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance
HighThis article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
WikiProject iconBiography: Arts and Entertainment
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group (assessed as High-importance).
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
WikiProject iconVisual arts
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Visual arts, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of visual arts on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Visual artsWikipedia:WikiProject Visual artsTemplate:WikiProject Visual artsvisual arts
Template:WP1.0
This article was the subject of an educational assignment in Spring 2015. Further details were available on the "Education Program:University of Pittsburgh/Art Since 1945 (Spring 2015)" page, which is now unavailable on the wiki.

Barnes Foundation paintings moved

The article shows at least two paintings attributed to the Barnes Foundation of Merion PA. The Barnes Foundation now houses the paintings permanently in Philadelphia, not Merion, since the Merion gallery closed. I saw Le bonheur de vivre and Madras Rouge there today. Should the city identification go with the painting or the city of the Foundation's headquarters?71.230.201.203 (talk) 18:23, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, good catch...Modernist (talk) 18:27, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Parent's Occupation Incorrect?

I'm seeing more than one source online saying that Matisse's parents were in the "grain" or "corn" business. There is no source on wiki for them owning a flower business, is it actually correct? http://www.biography.com/people/henri-matisse-9402564

I removed a phrase from the "early life" section pending review.

Phrase removed: , where his parents owned a flower business; he was their first son.

Elaur (talk) 16:41, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

1

This article really needs to be expanded. How do you flag it as a stub? 137.131.130.34 20:46, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

You're right about the inadequacy of this article given the importance of its subject, but it doesn't qualify for a stub tag. Rule of thumb for a stub is an article 3-10 sentences long--for more info on this see WP:STUB. To answer you question: You can always tag a stub by typing the word stub between doubled curly brackets. Ewulp 04:18, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

The part that lists Matisse's influences strikes me as grossly inaccurate. Not the people, but the movements they're said to belong to. Poussin and Watteau had nothing to do with Post-Impressionism, or even Impressionism. Manet crossed the bridge into Impressionism but that's still a huge stretch... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.28.45.55 (talk) 03:11, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

2

"in the Musée Franciscain-Eglise et Monastère de Cimiez, in the Cimiez neighbourhood of Nice, Alpes-Maritimes in the Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur Region of France."


What's that inflation ! I can also tel you it's near the arena if you come by the highway, leave the highway at "Nice-Nord" you drive to the Hôpital Pasteur you should turn on the right to take the "Avenue de la Voie Romaine" etc....

Ericd

God I was blind ! Matisse is not buried in the "in the Musée Franciscain-Eglise et Monastère de Cimiez" but in the cemetery near the "Monastère de Cimiez" like most people do. By the way Cimiez is in Nice not near Nice. Ericd

Matisse in Maroc

There is nothing here about the extremely influential time that the artist spent in Tanger. I do not feel confident enough in my artistic background to cover it, but I know that the time he spent there significantly influenced his use of light in paintings.

The Frog 14:49, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

pre-1923 artwork

Can't we add all of his pre 1923/2 artwork, because it is in the public domain, to Wikimedia Commons and to all the relevant articles? --Rajah 03:24, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, his paintings are only public domain in the U.S. if they were *published* before 1923. Exhibiting a painting doesn't count as publishing it, so it's not a foregone conclusion that his paintings were published close to the time they were made. —Celithemis 20:37, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

goldfish

that is my favorite painting by Henri Matisse

Melissa D.

Influenced by Matisse

The following line seems better left out:

He is also the great influence of the last living student of Picasso, Marcel Mouly.

Matisse was a huge influence on a lot of 20th century artists; Mouly is not an especially notable one compared to say De Kooning, Appel, Diebenkorn, Joan Brown, Purrmann, Carles, Bearden, Avery, Motherwell, or many others. The claim "last living student" can't be proven; did Picasso have formal students? Paloma Picasso is a designer and probably got pointers from her dad...Ewulp 02:46, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

In 2004 L'Atelier Rouge came in at No.5 of a poll of 500 art experts voting for the most influential modern art work of all time.
Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4059997.stm
Might be worth mentioning in the article... --BjKa 10:30, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


Picture Pages

I'm not going to add another line to the "partial list of works" as I think most of these stubs are quite useless clutter as they are. (except for the ones with images of course). However if someone would like to add Le Bateau (1958) – which won quite some notoriety in 1961 when it hung upside down at MoMA for several days until someone noticed – here's two useful weblinks about that story:

--BjKa 10:30, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

just tagged a bunch of matisse art as possibly unfree

go to Misplaced Pages:Possibly unfree images/2007 October 2 to check it out. Calliopejen1 18:15, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Armory Show 1913

The Armory Show of 1913 which marked a milestone in modern art was held in New York City, I believe, not in Chicago as stated in the text. Jim S.Jimshaw (talk) 17:40, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

It started in NY, then toured 3 cities, including Chicago. Ty 18:29, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Avril lavigne thing

how do you get rid of it? 79.75.152.2 (talk) 15:29, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Use of his name in other contexts

I happened to be idly flicking through the Daily Mail (yes, I know) in a pub earlier today and read this piece by the Glenda Slagg-esque Allison Pearson fulminating over why Lily Cole "agreed to be photographed in pigtails, long white schoolgirl socks and with a pink teddy parked up her Henri Matisse". In explanation, a picture of the cover is visible at the website of that other quality periodical, The Sun. I'd never encountered this usage before; has anyone else? Opera hat (talk) 15:54, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Link addition

It's not the official site. Ty 09:46, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
I am simply making an observation of fact. We can proceed from that. The initial post could have been misread. Ty 05:18, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
Also, why do you say I am a spammer? I do not make any money from my edits, I do it just for fun. This says my edits are OK: they http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:External_links#What_should_be_linked Groz (talk)
Spamming is the term used on wikipedia when the only or main interest of the edits is to add a specific external link, which in your case is arthermitage.org. Whether this is for profit or "fun", it is not in the interests of the project, and you should desist. You presumably have some connection with this web site, and should leave it to non-involved editors to make the decision for its inclusion or otherwise. There does not appear to be any support for including it. Ty 16:04, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Christie's Auction

Shouldn't there be some mention made of the Yves Saint Laurent auction? Matisse's painting "Les coucous, tapis bleu et rose" was the highest selling item there. It sold for over $45,000,000. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.36.208.117 (talk) 21:29, 26 February 2009 (UTC)


Vandalism?

Is "Dumb Kid" supposed to be the title to the image? 8.225.197.131 (talk) 16:56, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

It's been fixed. Thanks. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 18:50, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Emphasis

The sentence, " Where Renoir, Cézanne, Matisse, and Picasso's works dominated Leo and Gertrude Stein's collection, Sarah Stein's collection emphasized Matisse." seemed to lack point, insofar as it is saying, essentially, that Matisse, among others, dominated the Stein collection and dominated, as well, Sarah Stein's collection. What's the difference between "dominated" and "emphasized?" Hence I added "particularly" to the line.

Beyond Painting

More needs to be said about Matisse's work outside of painting, especially sculpture and cut-paper. Yes, he's primarily known as a painter, but he worked and experimented a lot with modernist trends in sculpture, and he produced numerous cut-paper works in the last years of his life. Helixer (hábleme) 17:40, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

The Cut-Outs

Art Since 1945: Bibliography

Cotter, Holland. "Wisps From an Old Man’s Dreams ‘Henri Matisse: The Cut-Outs,’ a Victory Lap at MoMA." New York Times. New York Times, 9 Oct. 2014. Web. 14 Feb. 2015.

Schjeldahl, Peter. "Shapes of Things." The New Yorker. October 20, 2014.

Another review of the recent MoMA exhibition, which may provide a contrasting view to Cotter's. Aolivex (talk) 17:37, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Elderfield, John, and Henri Matisse. The Cut-Outs of Henri Matisse. First ed. New York: George Braziller, 1978. Print.

Matisse, Henri, Henri Matisse, Karl D. Buchberg, Nicholas Cullinan, Jodi Hauptman, and Nicholas Serota. Henri Matisse: The Cut-outs. New York: Museum of Modern Art, 2014. Print.


I added the section "The cut-outs" and, following the outline in my sandbox, started filling in the introduction (influence, process, origin). I will work on adding information about the key works and the recent exhibitions at Tate and MoMA. I am still not sure where to place the cut-out section in the article/what would make the most sense. Currently, it is between "The war years" and "Last years," but the the overlap makes the reading a little confusing. I am thinking I might want to delete a section (or both), and rework the information into mine, creating one cohesive section? Or just edit the sections for any repetition/rename the headings to clarify. Sjs1994 (talk) 20:44, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

So far the section looks good; in my opinion the cut outs coincide with the last years and the Matisse Chapel, and the museum. I am changing the headings, hopefully these will work...Modernist (talk) 01:38, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 3 external links on Henri Matisse. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers. —Talk to my owner:Online 16:27, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Henri Matisse/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Matisse did not live in Cimiez from 1917-1954. He moved around the south of France and lived in many places, notably Vence, St Tropez and in Nice itself. He only moved to Cimiez in 1950.

Mgerrard 16:09, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


Also, much of the information is taken verbatim from http://www.henri-matisse.net/biography.html without quotes around it. This is plagiarism, so I would recommend that these discrepancies be sorted out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rjensen2 (talk • contribs) 01:47, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Last edited at 01:49, 22 March 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 17:38, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Henri Matisse. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:50, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Lead section

The lead section could be improved, but I don't think that what is wrong with it is that it doesn't mention Marcel Duchamp. As far as I know—and our article does not suggest otherwise—Matisse had little or no personal relationship with Duchamp. According to WP:LEAD, "Apart from basic facts, significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article." Duchamp's importance (apparent mainly in the decades after Matisse'e death) is not a basic fact about Matisse; it's a fact about art history, and about Duchamp.

The source cited for Duchamp's inclusion here is a survey of British art professionals whose top five list puts Matisse behind Duchamp, Picasso, and Warhol. Surely Warhol doesn't need to be mentioned in the lead too? We have seen elsewhere that this kind of ranking in a lead section is contentious. It seems better to relegate it to the Legacy section where the context can be described.

Matisse and Picasso were self-conscious rivals as noted in the article, and this deserves mention in a well-developed lead. Our third sentence—"Matisse is commonly regarded, along with Pablo Picasso, as one of the artists who best helped to define the revolutionary developments in the visual arts throughout the opening decades of the twentieth century, responsible for significant developments in painting and sculpture"—is accurate and sourced. The careful wording does not seem to me to imply that these two stood entirely alone in defining revolutionary developments in the visual arts. If there's any disagreement on this point, let's rephrase to make it unambiguous—or separate Picasso from this sentence, and mention him elsewhere. Ewulp (talk) 04:48, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Categories: