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Potential superpower

This article is not a GA. Anyways, @Heuh0: what are your reasons behind removing the specific mention of the USA? OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 01:26, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

My problem was not so much with mentioning the US, but mentioning the US specifically it is argued by many that the EU and China are also superpowers, the EU even has a bigger economy as well as many other things. It is misleading to name US exclusively as the superpower, as this is not a consensus. Additionally it isn misleading to group India with the EU and China. It situations like this, due avoid misleading you must be a broad ass possible but to still give the relevant information, which has been given. DocHeuh (talk) 02:20, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Such argument leads to a number of off topic discussion that we many of us had before. EU and China are not superpowers. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 02:27, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

On what basis can you assert that EU and China are not superpowers? There is no formal definition and so, by implication, any claims are subjective - hence this is not an impartial article. Ag1975e (talk) 13:53, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

The EU is falling apart. (165.120.240.48 (talk) 19:48, 15 July 2016 (UTC))

Is the United States still the only superpower?

It's biased to suggest this because many have argued China is now a superpower. (165.120.240.48 (talk) 18:38, 15 July 2016 (UTC))

Only the United States is widely held among political scientists as being a superpower. Therefore, it is not bias, but a reflection of the overwhelming majority of experts. Antiochus the Great (talk) 18:43, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

China is now regularly described as the world economic superpower. (165.120.240.48 (talk) 18:44, 15 July 2016 (UTC))

You said it yourself, "economic superpower". China may have the economy of a superpower, but that is where it ends. This article is not concerned with economics, or merely one aspect of a superpower - this article is about full-fledged superpowers in every domain.Antiochus the Great (talk) 18:49, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

But China is not interested in fighting wars. The source is only an opinion piece by a US publication. (165.120.240.48 (talk) 18:51, 15 July 2016 (UTC))

Interest in fighting wars isn't one of the factors that makes one country a superpower, and the publications are RS, whether based in the United States or not. - SantiLak (talk) 20:31, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

With the end of conventional wars the term superpower is being redefined in the 21st century. China does not need to be a military superpower in order to bankrupt the United States. (81.132.48.149 (talk) 09:30, 19 July 2016 (UTC))

Can the original poster of this thread provide reliable secondary sources for their ideas. Otherwise this whole discussion is useless as without such sources no changes to the article would be acceptable. Arnoutf (talk) 09:54, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

An update to this article is probably overdue. According to this survey a plurality of international respondents said that China was likely to replace or already has replaced the US as the "superpower", although it does not define "superpower". That said it is probably no longer a controversial statement (as it would have been back in 2010) that China and the US are emerging as "binary superpowers" now, as described in the Group of Two article.Colipon+(Talk) 19:31, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

UK

The UK was no longer a superpower after World War II. (165.120.240.48 (talk) 18:42, 15 July 2016 (UTC))

Yes it was. The United Kingdom and the British Empire emerged from WWII and one of the "big three" principle powers, and was widely regarded (from academics, to politicians etc) as one of the three superpowers. There are references in the article explaining this already. Antiochus the Great (talk) 18:45, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

The UK was no longer a superpower by the end of World War II. The Atlantic Charter, the beginning of Lend-Lease and the Fall of Singapore ensured the complete collapse of the British Empire. The Suez Crisis showed only that the UK had not been a superpower since World War II. Most historians say the UK was no longer a superpower after Churchill signed away its empire in 1941. (165.120.240.48 (talk) 18:47, 15 July 2016 (UTC))

An article in "The Guardian" today said the UK was never a superpower, even in the 19th century, and that the United States was the only true superpower in history. (81.132.48.149 (talk) 11:40, 19 July 2016 (UTC))

This article or section might be slanted towards recent events. (May 2016)

This article or section might be slanted towards recent events. (May 2016)

What?Ernio48 (talk) 09:45, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

No idea. Removed. Rob984 (talk) 15:30, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

British Empire in Teal

The map showing the British Empire in teal is misleading, for instance, only part of Canada is coloured teal, none of Australia, but all of New Zealand. In fact, all should be entirely coloured teal as they all have the QEII as head of state. It looks as if this map is designed to minimise British influence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.59.155.129 (talk) 02:28, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Your arguments are similarly expressed by others in the talk page of the map in File talk:Superpower map 1945.png#Dominions. I rather hoped that the map's talk page would have an explanation, I'm sure there is one myself mind you. --User:Dwarf Kirlston - talk 03:01, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

User:ZaidRock11 responded over at the image talk page, seems adequate. The argument being that the Statute of Westminster 1931 gave Dominions independence. Seems reasonable to me.--User:Dwarf Kirlston - talk 18:37, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

US was the only superpower

The United States was the only superpower in the 20th century. The UK and the USSR were never on the same level. (81.132.49.250 (talk) 14:14, 28 December 2016 (UTC))

What? Pre-WW2, the US wouldn't be considered any more powerful then France, Germany or Japan. Pre-WW1, arguable the UK was the sole superpower. Rob984 (talk) 15:24, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

The US was clearly the industrial superpower in the first half of the 20th century, and arguably the economic superpower as well. The UK, USSR, France, Germany and Japan were never superpowers. Only the US - and now China - are actual superpowers. (81.132.49.1 (talk) 20:17, 28 December 2016 (UTC))

Personally I find reasonable that the USSR was a superpower in facts like that USSR was the first to put a man in space, to launch satellites, to invent cellphones. And that the US and the USSR divided the world about evenly from 1945 to 1989.

But hey, if you can find a reliable source that says that the US was the only superpower, maybe that could get included in the article. Search Google scholar!

--User:Dwarf Kirlston - talk 03:29, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

If you solely consider industrial power then China has been a superpower for a long time. That is certainly not the sole criteria for a superpower. The US was considered a superpower only after its militarisation up to and throughout WW2, and its alliances thereafter. Before this the US might have been economically powerful, but it was extremely non-interventionist. It didn't not join the League of Nations, it did nothing to counter the expansion of the Japanese Empire, took no stance during the Spanish Civil War, and it stayed neutral for much of WW2. To say the US—an isolationist country at the time—was more influential then Japan, the USSR, Britain, or France, which each had very an active role in international affairs, is preposterous. Rob984 (talk) 12:27, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Lede needs to be changed

China is clearly a superpower now, and the opinion of a dictator like Putin isn't reliable. (81.136.23.142 (talk) 02:13, 22 January 2017 (UTC))

Putin's quote in 2016 is reliable. China hasn't done anything differently than it did a year ago. Supergodzilla2090 (talk) 03:30, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

China has been a superpower for years now. Economically, industrially and militarily. (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:DDA5:7D80:4101:B8A2 (talk) 13:11, 22 January 2017 (UTC))

The IP is right. The Russian President may be considered a reputable source on the topic of geopolitics (though that is disputable), but he is certainly not impartial. Giving his view prominence like that is a breach of WP:NPOV. The statement "according to Russian President Putin and other sources, this has remained unchanged." is actually uncited. No source claims that no other source considers China a superpower. Rather it is that the editors of this article simply haven't found any sources claiming this to be the case. Editors of this article need to learn what Misplaced Pages is about.

All encyclopedic content on Misplaced Pages must be written from a neutral point of view (NPOV), which means representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic.

Only a minority of sources claim China to be a super power. So we should proportionately represent this view and provide counter arguments as to why it is a minority view. Not pretend this view doesn't exist.

Rob984 (talk) 14:44, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

China is the world superpower now. Putin's view is irrelevant as he has never won a free election. He has his own reasons for claiming the US as the only superpower, because China could easily bankrupt Russia at any moment. (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:DDA5:7D80:4101:B8A2 (talk) 15:02, 22 January 2017 (UTC))

Your POV is also irreverent. Find some sources, please. Rob984 (talk) 16:10, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

There are thousands of sources online describing China as the world superpower. (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:DDA5:7D80:4101:B8A2 (talk) 17:45, 22 January 2017 (UTC))

There are also thousands of sources online claiming evidence for aliens or magic. We need named, specific, and reliable sources. And it is up to those suggesting inclusion of new contents to provide these. Without such sources we cannot even begin considering inclusion of new information. Arnoutf (talk) 18:44, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

China has the largest and most powerful army in the world. So of course it's a superpower. (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:DDA5:7D80:4101:B8A2 (talk) 18:48, 22 January 2017 (UTC))

Provide a source plesase. Arnoutf (talk) 19:13, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

There are multiple sources saying China and Russia are both superpowers: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/07/china-russia-superpower-axis (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:DDA5:7D80:4101:B8A2 (talk) 19:17, 22 January 2017 (UTC))

Did you even read that article? The only time superpower is mentioned is, is in the heading, and even there accompanied by a question mark. Please do your homework before just dumping something in this discussion. Arnoutf (talk) 20:28, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Here is a source from 2011: http://www.pewglobal.org/2011/07/13/china-seen-overtaking-us-as-global-superpower/ (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:DDA5:7D80:4101:B8A2 (talk) 20:50, 22 January 2017 (UTC))

Which is about an opinion poll among non-expert citizens and does not list any factcheck. Arnoutf (talk) 21:15, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Who is an expert on the definition of a superpower? At the very least the lede needs to mention that China is widely seen as a superpower/emerging superpower in the early 21st century. (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:DDA5:7D80:4101:B8A2 (talk) 23:23, 22 January 2017 (UTC))

Tell me who an expert is, and define widely seen please. Arnoutf (talk) 18:10, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

I'll use some plain Texan talk here, a lot of people are stupid, and as such "widely believed" by non-academics isn't reliable, in fact I think that would fall under WP:weasel. China is a great power, there is no doubt, but they have several crippling weakenesses that place them solidly in the "not-superpower" category. I will compare them to what experts call the sole superpower, or even hyperpower, America. You mention industry, that one may be true. Economically is a solid no, while they make propaganda about their solid lack of private debt, that's pretty easy when you are communist, take a look at public debt sometime. Military, don't make me laugh, their military isn't the weakest of anyone, but it would only meet great power at a maximum. It is a pretty well established fact that America could wipe the floor with China. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 18:50, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

The United States was defeated by China in the Korean War and that was long before China had thousands of nuclear weapons. China owns so much US debt that it could easily bankrupt the US economy at any time. There were reports on the BBC today about China surpassing the US, and how they would destroy the American economy if Trump started a trade war. (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:1CF8:7C96:457B:2A83 (talk) 20:50, 24 January 2017 (UTC))

1. They were pushed back but rapidly repelled the chinese, before it stalemated. 2. China still doesn't own thousands of nukes, it only has about 260. 3. That's entirely wrong, China has been rapidly selling off holdings of US debt, as of recently Japan owns more than them. 4. The thing about them destroying the economy is that it would require America to agree to pay its debt. I am 100% certain that Trump would tell China to procreate with itself, therefore doing little damage to the economy, and making China's hold of the debt politically worthless. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 21:30, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

China also defeated America in the Vietnam War. You are just in denial - China is the world economic and industrial superpower with a vast modern military, and the US is rapidly heading for its "Suez Crisis" moment. The election of Trump just speeded up the inevitable. (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:1CF8:7C96:457B:2A83 (talk) 22:02, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

This is just WP:FORUM. Cool. It's more likely that when America has its "'Suez Crisis' moment", there will be no more superpowers. World has become far too multipolar. The great powers can't just throw their weight around like they use to. As China grows, so are many other emerging economies. It still a few years before China's GDP surpasses the US or EU's. Also its growth rate is slowing down. Get reliable academic sources, then we can discuss. Rob984 (talk) 22:48, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

China surpassed the declining EU years ago. The EU is breaking up and won't exist in a few years. (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:1CF8:7C96:457B:2A83 (talk) 23:48, 24 January 2017 (UTC))

Get reliable academic sources, then we can discuss. Arnoutf (talk) 16:38, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

The United States were never defeated by China in a war, especially not in the Vietnam or Korean War. The Korean War doesn't have a winner or loser since the conflict is still going on. Redman19 (talk) 08:33, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Agree with Arnoutf and others: "Get reliable academic sources, then we can discuss."--Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 09:40, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Map inaccuracies

The 1945 world map has several bits that seem to be the wrong colour. New Zealand is shown as fully part of the British Empire, unlike Australia, Cananda or South Africa, while the effective British control of Egypt and Soviet control of central Europe are not shown. Any thoughts on this? — FIRE! 14:18, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

I am not sure what either of the two maps brings to the article, as shown by the United States territory has nothing to do with being a superpower. MilborneOne (talk) 14:42, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

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