Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 00:38, 3 October 2006

Edits on Gnaviyani Atoll

Hello, Regarding your redirection of Gnaviyani Atoll to Nyaviyani Atoll. The correct title is Gnaviyani Atoll and hence this should be the real page and Nyaviyani Atoll, the alternate title, should be the redirection page. Gnaviyani is used in Ministry of Atolls webiste . Thanks --Oblivious 10:59, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Re: your response on my talk page

Ministry of Atolls website is actually using the new ones as far as i know and besides when it comes to they way maldivians' named it its atoll it can be a very cryptic thing and often doesnt make any sense. and for "Naviyani"-"Gnaviyani" conflict, i think we should stick with the way its followed by the ministry. dont you think? --Oblivious 06:40, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks

... for fixing the typo in my user page --Oblivious 19:12, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Bahamas map

Nice to have another mapmaker on board :) I've been trying to find a good map of the Bahamas to work from, looks like you beat me to it. :) --Golbez 15:51, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Vojvodina

Well, we did started bad, but it will be better I hoppe. We do have same interest for cartography, so we maybe can cooperate about some maps on Misplaced Pages. You can also add your name here if you want:

• http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Wikipedians/Cartographers

As for sending email via Misplaced Pages, I do not know how to do this, can you explain to me how to send it? One more thing, seems that the problem with Vojvodina article is that the history section lack the explanation for this changes of the autonomy level from 1945 to the present day. I will improve this history section when I find time to do it. Since you are interested in this issue, then here is the main difference in the autonomy levels during the time: In 1945 Vojvodina and Kosovo were formed as a territorial autonomies within Serbia. In 1974, the autonomy level of both provinces was increased in the manner that they still were autonomous provinces of Serbia, but they also were represented in the federal institutions independently from Serbia (In another words, the provinces had almost same level of power as the Serbia itself). In 1989, this level of autonomy was abolished, so the provinces were no longer represented in the federal institutions, but were only autonomous provinces within Serbia (as they were before 1974 too), with a small level of autonomy. The Kosovo Albanians did not agreed to have only this small autonomy, so they boycotted the institutions and started a rebellion in 1998, which led to NATO bombing in 1999. The UN administration increased the level of the autonomy of Kosovo in 1999, while the level of autonomy of Vojvodina was also increased by the omnibus law in 2002. Currently, both provinces have larger autonomy than in 1989, but smaller than in 1974. In this year the final status of Kosovo will be determined, and it will be either independence either Kosovo will become a third republic within Serbia-Montenegro. As for Vojvodina, it also will gain more autonomy by the new constitution of Serbia. Serbia possibly will also have 4 new provinces. See this: Regions of Serbia. The ethnic Hungarian politicians from the northern part of Vojvodina also want a separate autonomous region for themselves (Hungarian Regional Autonomy), as well as the ethic Bosniak politicians from Sandžak, but it is not likely that these two regions will be formed, since the new provinces of Serbia will be formed on economic, not on the ethnic principle. PANONIAN (talk) 22:10, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for map of Jersey parishes

I am hastily leaving you a message simply to thank you for contributing a map of Jersey parishes — it is good work, I have to say. Lacking the appropriate software, I gave up attempting one long ago.

Thank you once again,

Grumpy Troll 13:09, 21 January 2006 (UTC).

slovenia regions map

Hello, fellow Libra! I believe it would be better to number the regions instead of writing their names, so that it would be legible from the main article, instead of enlarging the picture to be able to see the names. I'd do it myself, but I don't have the necessary knowledge of graphic design (in short, I suck at it), so i'm kindly asking you to do it!

Thanks! edolen1 15:26, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Actually, yes, I would prefer you to put in the reference numbers, but purely because of aesthetics. The huge map really looks out of place. Thanks for your contributions, though! edolen1 16:09, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I never meant to hurt your feelings. It's just that I wanted to edit your map and number the regions instead of naming them, as the names are quite long and I thought it was more practical to use numbers. But unfortunately like I mentioned before, my skills are all but limited when it comes to image editing. That's why, when I found the map from the Statistical Office, I added it because it fit my criteria, so to speak. I did check the copyright, and I did add the note on the source as the copyright notice demanded. I did however mislabel it as having an unknown license but I've fixed it since then. I do hope you understand that this wasn't an act against you but something which I thought might better represent the regions and aid the reader better. Again, my sincerest apologies as I did not mean to hurt your feelings. edolen1 16:48, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! :) edolen1 17:15, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Jersey etc

Hello. I have no intention of engaging in an edit war, but why do you insist on inflating maps to such a size that they squeeze the lists and tables? It's really not necessary - your maps are nice enough map that everyone can admire them even at a reasonable size. Man vyi 13:48, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Maps of Sogn og Fjordane et al

Hello there. I noticed that you have uploaded a county of showing municipalities of Sogn og Fjordane county. Would you be interested in designing similar maps for the traditional districts (landsdeler) as well? They are more or less clusters of modern municipalities that group themselves together both for reasons practical administration and a historical sense of common regional identity based on dialect and folklore. =J //Big Adamsky 15:12, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

PS: Also, I would like to suggest that you follow cartographic conventions by not placing names over borders or coastlines. If the area is too small for the word to fit, then the best option (in my opinion) is to use numbers and a footnote/legend or else to just abbreviate the toponym in question. Thanks again. //Big Adamsky 15:18, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Rogaland

Ølen merged with Vindafjord on January 1, 2006, decided by a referendum of February 17, 2003. -- Egil 18:01, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the update! Rarelibra

Also, Ølen opted to become part of Rogaland county in stead of Hordaland a few years prior to the merger. Municipal mergers have also ocurred in Nordland county. //Big Adamsky 09:50, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Excellent addition to Vest-Agder

Thanks for adding the map to Vest-Agder. Really helps understand the geography! Williamborg 01:38, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

And I see Big Adamsky asked if you'd consider designing maps for the traditional districts (landsdeler). He's not alone in thinking this would be a good contribution, if you have the time. Williamborg 01:41, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

But I just tried to use your map in Aust-Agder and found several errors. Compare your version with that in Veiatlas Norge or at German map of Aust-Agder & you will see the differences. Hope you can update. Thanks Williamborg 04:14, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Map of Montenegro

Here is the map you asked for (I just draw it):

• http://en.wikipedia.org/Image:Montenegro_municipalities.png

PANONIAN (talk) 22:39, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

About map

Hi, i'm id-wiki user. I know very little about ArcView. How to make a good and artistic map, is there any template for making map in wiki? Which software should I use? (I'm Windows XP user). FYI, these map I've made are very bad, huh? Look at this: locator and county-division. Please reply to my id-wiki discussion page. Wic2020 04:52, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't say your maps are bad at all. ArcView is a software that is very easy to learn and very creative to use in editing/creating maps (using the old "shape file" format from ESRI). I like the 2nd map a lot, actually - although I cannot read the language (is it Malaysian?). I will compile a list for you of sources that are good references for how to create/edit maps. Rarelibra 8MAR06

Thanks a lot ;) The language is Indonesian (it's mutually intelligible with Malaysian). The second map shows one of local administrative region of regency in Indonesia. I want to make other regency map, either locator map or admin-division map in Indonesia, especially in Java (island). Feel free sending me map templates & resources for wiki (by email). Wic2020 06:08, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

U.S Virgin Islands map -- thank you

Image:US_Virgin_Islands_admin_divisions.png is very nice. Thanks! --Gruepig 05:24, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Slovenian občine

Unfortunately, 12 new municipalities have been established recently and 5 still need to be approved in the National Assembly, so currently there are no accurate maps I can give you. We're going to have to wait for the local elections this fall for some detailed maps of the municipalities to be released.

There's already a map for the (until recently) 193 municipalities though. edolen1 18:50, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Divisions/Departments

Hmm. We seem to be on different pages about whether the English name for Cameroon's départements is divisions or departments. I've changed things back to what I'm fairly certain is the proper nomenclature, but if you decide to revert again, I won't edit war with you. Once I get home, I'll consult my Cameroon library to see how my atlases, histories, etc. handle the issue. I know that, as Fotang stated at Talk:Cameroon, most Anglophone Cameroonians (in my personal experience) refer to these units as divisions rather than departments. — BrianSmithson 17:49, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey - in the midst of my changes and your reverts, I consulted the official Cameroon government page (http://www.spm.gov.cm/showdoc.php?id_docs=21&lang=en&tpl=1) and found the 'official' breakdown (my source must be from the 'old' makeup). While the UN views them as "departments" (hence the French nomenclature), I appreciate the input... and will follow suit with a breakdown series of maps of the 'divisions'. :) Rarelibra 17:53, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

(Moving discussion back here to avoid fragmentation) I'm beginning to think that I acted too hastily and that "department" is the proper nomenclature. Like I said, Anglophone Cameroonians tend to say division and refer to prefets and sous-prefets as senior divisional officers and junior divisional officers. It gets kind of confusing. :) But the UN page and official page you cite are both very convincing arguments for departments, as is this link. If we decide to change back to departments, Category:Divisions of Cameroon will need a renaming, as well. — BrianSmithson 18:21, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Wait; just checked the official Cameroonian government page you linked to and realized that you meant that it uses divisions rather than departments. Damn colonialism by three different European powers! — BrianSmithson 18:27, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

GhanaMaps

The Ghana District Maps are great. I am not a geographer but I'm using some maps in my doctoral dissertation. I brought them back as paper copies a cartographer at the Ghana Electoral Commission created for me. Then I scanned them at Kinkos into .JPGs. I've managed to turn them into pretty good looking maps which I can somewhat laborously manipulate using Adobe Illustrator but from the sounds of it your maps are far easier to change. Do you have any free advice?

Sure... if you would like me to manipulate/create particular maps for you, I offer up my services to you - free of charge. I need a way to contact you outside of Wiki. I have an email address with Wiki - if you are unable to send me a message, then I will gladly provide mine to you. Rarelibra 18:49, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Map of Piedmont

Hi there :) compliments for your many contributions about maps and geography in general! Unfortunately I've found the map of Piedmont you uploaded on Commons is flawed, and doesn't show the correct borders of some provinces - it:Provincia di Vercelli also commprises what you call Province of Biella, Biella itself lies where you put Verbano-Cusio-Ossola, which is more to the right, sharing some border with Lombardy. Since there are so many maps with the same style I thought it would be better just to tell you, and not to upload some corrected version which might look different. ;-) Bye,

137.204.150.44 19:06, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

SVG maps? On Commons?

Hi Rare! I'm a map fan collaborating on a project on Africa in the Portuguese-language Misplaced Pages, and I have to say you make great maps! My I ask (if it's not asking too much?) that you'd make your maps available in SVG format, and upload these to Wikimedia Commons? That way those maps can be put to more flexible use, in more than just the English wiki. I've never used the software you mention, but if it's cartographic software then it should export in several vector formats. If you need any assistance with Commons, or want to talk about it, please use my talk page. Thanks! – Tintazul 23:19, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for wanting to create the SVG maps! If the shapes end up labelled, say if the shape for a province has id=the province's name, then so much the better! That really helps. If the SVG's turn out very big, I for one would say it's all right - all the info there is useful. About categorizing, there's usually a Maps of XXX category for each country. If you need me, you know where to find me. – Tintazul 16:30, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Where are you adding the maps, here at the English wiki or at the Commons? I can't see anything either.

You should create an account on Wikimedia Commons, to add the images there. As to software to produce SVG from jpeg, well, it is best to use the original sources that you have, or you will introduce a lot of errors in the resulting SVG file. If you have ESRI files or other vector format, your software should be able to easily convert to SVG. -- – Tintazul 13:02, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Maps of Norway

I see you have created some maps of the counties of Norway, and sice you (hopefully) got an easy editable version at your computer, I would be very greatfull if you could have made municipality maps in the same style as there is. see commons:Category:Maps of Nordland for example.

We are lacking maps of these counties,

• Akershus
• Aust-Agder
• Hordaland
• Rogaland
• Sogn og Fjordane
• Telemark

I (and the rest of no:) would be very greatful if you had the chance to help us. the name of the maps have to be nn kart.png due to templates. Røed 14:41, 7 August 2006 (UTC) just contact me if you got any questions. (I will put your page on survilance as well). Røed 14:41, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Roed - Help me out here. I want to clarify - do you need me to redo the maps I created for Norway, or do you need me to do more maps for the counties you mentioned, at the municipality level? If so, I need assistance in finding a 'base map' or image of such that I can use to trace/digitize the outlines. The sources I have only go down two administrative levels (or up to 5 levels, in cases like France - which has a complex system). ? thanks! 19:29, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I basicly want you to use the maps you have of the listed counties, and make one map for each municipality (with that municipality in red, the others in gray). Røed 21:10, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Administrative Divisions

I just wanted to say hello. I've noticed that you do maps and have done a little editing here and there to Administrative Divisions. I'm currently trying to universalize all the administrative divisions, in respect to their images and list of counties, provinces, etc. I don't need any specific help from you right now, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to say hello and establish a contact for my current undertaking. b_cubed 22:26, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, now I need your map making expertise. I just streamlined the Administrative divisions a little bit for Peru. The only problem is, is that it is an out of date map. The map that I took out of Subdivisions of Peru does not have listed the region Callao, which has since become a province. I checked out the Callao article and it has an image that you could possibly use to update the one on the peru article. Also, when the Callao region is added to the main map, it will of course need renumbering. thanks b_cubed 16:02, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey b_cubed - consider it done. Based on the available maps on Wiki and the Internet, I have already created (in my database) the area, although I would first like to verify its accuracy. Would you or someone you know be able to verify the accuracy of my boundary definitions? Rarelibra 16:07, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't know as if i could verify it's accuracy. Nor do I know anyone that really could. I just happened to notice that the map that was being used was a little outdated. sorry b_cubed 17:01, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Image:Uganda Districts.png

Nice map, well done. --Ezeu 16:30, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

El mapa de los municipios de Espana

Hola Rarelibra. Por lo que yo entiendo necesitas la cartografía municipal de España ¿verdad? OK. Te contesto como hice a otro compañero de la Misplaced Pages:

Obtener la cartografía municipal de España con la que están hechos los mapas de Misplaced Pages es sencillo. Para ello tú debes descargarse el siguiente programa que se encuentra en la web del Instituto Nacional de Estadística (INE) de España de esta página.

Después de instalar el programa vete al directorio de instalación C:\Archivos de programa\PX-Map\Maps (en tu ordenador puede que cambie C:\Program Files\PX-Map\Maps). Allí tú encontrarás todos los shapefiles con los municipios de España que usa el programa, con su código INE, superficie, provincia, nombre, etc. listo para cargar en tu GIS.

Espero haberte servido de ayuda.

Reciba un cordial saludo. --Politono 08:26, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

No estoy seguro pero el sistema de proyección creo que es UTM ED50. --Politono 21:01, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Municipalities of Brazil

I just wanna thank you for breaking and organizing its content! Gcoliveira 19:44, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Opposing force

I think you have misunderstood my edit. While 'OPFOR' is an abbreviation for 'opposing force', and the terms are very often used with the same meaning, they are not always interchangeable. AFAICT, we are agreed that the term 'OPFOR' is used only for a simulated enemy, not a real one, but this is not the case for 'opposing force'.

Some examples where 'opposing force' is used to refer to a genuine enemy:

PoW Medal criteria (term is also used in the same way in criteria for various other awards) AUSA piece on Aerial Common Sensor 'Combat Models' coursework 'Parameters' magazine article on the Battle of Grozny

This usage is not particularly common (which is why the focus of the article is on simulated enemies, as it should be). However, it does exist - in reputable military publications, at that - and as long as the article's titled 'Opposing force' it should acknowledge that usage.

As for the question of US-centrism: given that simulated enemies are an important part of training to many military powers, it seems to me that it would make sense to have an article that covers the general concept - having a separate article for each nation that does this would lead to a lot of duplication of effort (and I doubt we'd have much luck producing more than a stub for nations other than the US). If 'Opposing force' seems too US-centric a term to fit a general article, it would be better to rename it to something more generic rather than change the scope. --Calair 15:12, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Divisions of Cameroon maps

Good job on your maps of the divisions of Cameroon! You might consider uploading them to Wikimedia Commons as well so that the users of Wikipedias in other languages also have access to them. And they'd also be good additions to the individual province articles (East Province (Cameroon), South Province (Cameroon), etc.). Again, nice work! — BrianSmithson 22:32, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey BrianSmithson! THANK YOU for the comments on my maps. I finally compiled a list on my map page and found out I have over 100+ maps I've created (Yikes!). I went ahead and got a Commons account and started with loading up the Cameroon maps. Thanks again, and thank you for pointing out the commons to me. Rarelibra 20:00, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

(Just moving the conversation here to avoid fragmentation.) I'm glad to hear that you found my suggestion worthwhile! Commons is a great service, but a lot of people don't know about it. At any rate, keep up the good work! — BrianSmithson 05:29, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology

Since you are interested in flags and emblems I would like to inform you that the WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology has just been created. Why not take a look? I hope you can join. Inge 21:06, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Provinces of Italy

Hello Rarelibra, why did you revert the edits on Provinces of Italy? In the Italian constitution even this region is referred to as Trentino-Alto Adige/Sudtirol. The latter sharing the Italian and German names. There has been a campaign by Austrians to list the English as Trentino-South Tyrol, but it is something that really does not exist. Doing a Google Test shows most English pages actually refer to the region as Trentino-Alto Adige. Anyway, how it is now is really the correct listing. Taalo 20:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Rarelibra, my family is from this region and also from Italy, but I am a native English speaker based in the USA. Just check out the links I'll provide. The Provinces are Trento (TN) and Bolzano/Bozen (BZ). The cities are in Italy and are called first Bolzano, then Bozen. Every sign has Bolzano/Bozen, Merano/Meran, etc. The so-called English name of South Tyrol has been invented by individuals with a German POV. Taalo 02:50, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

http://www.provinz.bz.it/lpa/autonomy/autonomy_statute_eng.pdf

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/it.html#Govt

http://www.oefre.unibe.ch/law/icl/it00000_.html

(refer to Article 116 about Province names)

http://www.countriesandcities.com/countries/it/provinces.htm

Renaming a page

To rename a page, use the "move" function. If you use cut and paste like you did at South Tyrol/Alto Adige, this destroys the page history, and so I have reverted your edits. Also, as South Tyrol is an English name, the naming conventions strongly favor this name. If you want to try to have the page moved, please file a request at WP:RM. Thank you, Kusma (討論) 15:11, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi Kusma, there is more involved here really. South Tyrol is an English name, just as Upper Adige is an English name. The point is, is that the Province is actually called Bolzano (or Bozen in German). There is no province named South Tyrol, unless you go back to the Austrian-Hungarian Empire.. which I guess is what some individuals are trying to do (i.e. "Greater Austria"). Taalo 17:02, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Taalo - I renamed with BOTH translations to make a multilingual diversity happy. Hopefully this will work. Next we'll work on renaming the cities back to proper Italian-German name. Rarelibra 17:03, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Rarelibra, amazing. Yes, putting it with multilingual is really the best way, in my opinion. I also don't see how the German or Italian partisans can come up with an argument against "sharing". If you need any references or more info on this region I can help. It means so much to me to have this done in a correct and neutral fashion. I can ask some relatives to take photos of the city signs that show Bolzano-Bozen, Brennero-Brenner, etc. This is definitely how all cities in this region are named. I really don't know how to thank you enough for at least trying to put things right. Taalo 17:07, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Kusma, please do not just start moving these pages. Whether or not I agree with the moves, they concern currently controversial topics and should be discussed at talk to gain consensus. Olessi 17:06, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi Olessi, one problem with this though. What I've seen on these pages is a lot were changed to this POV, and then the argument keeps coming up that we have to find "consensus" to put them back. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Also, since this is a highly controversial subject, how do we get rid of the POV? If we have 10 Austrian partisans parcipate and two Italian neutrals. How will we get a fair result? I'm just playing Devil's advocate. Anyway, in my opinion if these pages stay the same, they will idle like this for another year. take care. Taalo 17:10, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Olessi - if you cannot see the point in what Taalo is saying, the photos will ultimately prove it. So the multilingual diversity translations should stay as fair and just per Wiki rules. Rarelibra 17:09, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

What is amazing is if this ends up staying with a German/Austrian POV. The actual city names in the region are Italian-German, NOT German-Italian, yet everything seems to suddenly be switched to a German-Italian heading - a very clear German POV. Look, my history comes from Bavaria, but I recognize what is right. Don't be too proud to make this correct and remove the biased POV. As for the naming, the double-translated English seems to be the best possible option, and the most correct for translating BOTH names - not just because one book in English lists it as "South Tyrol". I'm sure I can find some that reference "Upper Adige" as well. Just as in the Cyprus page, they have a shared Greek AND Turkish translation. So make it that way here and keep things fair and just. Rarelibra 17:17, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Same here, my roots are from Italian/Austrian, and I thereby respect both. Seeing people change all the names around, just for the sake of having German first. It is just -not- right. They actually tried to use the excuse that German is before Italian in English. I mean, come on. I don't know, but I like people to at least come out and say why there are doing something, not try and be sneaky about it. Taalo 18:17, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Province of Bolzano/Bozen

Hi Rarelibra, one correction I have for you. I know it is kind of confusing, but the region as a whole is Trentino-Upper Adige/South Tyrol (the South and North). Then the provinces are actually called Province of Trento and Province of Bolzano/Bozen. The region the Province of Trento is in is the whole Trentino-Upper Adige/South Tyrol (though logically it is actually in the region Trentino). The same for the Province of Bolzano/Bozen. It is in the whole Trentino-Upper Adige/South Tyrol (though actually in the Upper Adige/South Tyrol part). Is this making any sense? :) So actually the page that is South Tyrol and was now moved to Upper Adige/South Tyrol, should actually just be the Province of Bolzano/Bozen. Taalo 17:23, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

That's why it is best to discuss things at talk. Now the Upper Adige / South Tyrol articles are all over the place. Please ask an administrator to reverse the moves so they can be properly discussed at talk. Moves done hastily can lead to errors or revert wars. Cheers, Olessi 17:29, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Well it is the only error I've found. I've pointed it out to Rarelibra, and it can easily be fixed. Upper Adige/South Tyrol should just be the Province of Bolzano/Bozen. The region page takes care of the Trentino-Upper Adige/South Tyrol bit. Simple. Taalo 17:39, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Proper discussion has proven pointless, Olessi - especially with some of the admins involved being GERMAN. It is in these 'outer edges' of discussion that Wiki displays its most discussed weaknesses. And these weaknesses are what continue to make Misplaced Pages a battleground (of sorts) for POV as one admin and another get involved. In this case, is it not plain to see the need for clarity? Rarelibra 17:34, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

All I can say is, AMEN! Taalo 17:39, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I saw that the page was moved to Province of Bolzano/Bozen. I made a few corrections also, updating the regional name to the province. I have to say, this is the first time in a year I've seen these pages listed correctly, and most of all, fairly! I can only hope that it stays this way. I'll do my best to help in updating these pages and really making the worth of the two provinces and this region as a whole. Taalo 17:50, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Crickey! What a mess. Why can't you discuss things before moving controversial articles? This is what WP:RQM is for after all. Asterion 20:30, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

OK, I'm glad you realised about it. Can we take the discussion back to Talk:Communes of South Tyrol and take it from there? Thanks, Asterion

Page moves

Hi, I would like to direct you to this guideline on Misplaced Pages: Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions (use English). Please don't move pages about, again. Ryūlóng 17:58, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me Ryulong, but the moves were to make corrections. How the pages were named so far were in a manner that was absolutely false. take care. Taalo 18:06, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

ah jeez dude, you are reverting everything. I just made corrections on the Bolzano-Bozen page also. I got to get to work now, and don't have time to fix things again. :< Taalo 18:08, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

It's just that I have seen no references to any sort of discussion as to these moves. If you would bring it up at the talk pages of each article, and then have the whole of the editors of the article decide on the correct name, then by all means then the pages should be moved. It is just that using both translations in the name (Trentino-/Upper Adige) is of bad form. Misplaced Pages has guidelines on naming pages such as these, and I do not know of the correct names myself. I would, however, you prefer that you discuss these moves between more than two editors in the future. Ryūlóng 18:09, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

And I would be fine if I had to fix any sorts of messes that I may have made, through requested moves, and perhaps asking for administrative assistance, but now is a bad time to try and work all of this out. Ryūlóng 18:11, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi Ryolong, the thing is though that some of these pages were even moved originally without consensus. Those with a strong German POV had kept them like this for a year, essentially hijacking these pages. Some of the things are just incredibly wrong, like having the Province of Bolzano/Bozen called South Tyrol (!?!). I put down a lot of references for Rarelibra and Olessi, etc. I guess it was too good to be true that these names were finally corrected. It was nearly perfect there for a bit. Man, I give up.. : \ Taalo 18:14, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Ryolong, be very careful when mentioning the Misplaced Pages rules on English usage, especially when those very rules state "Whichever is chosen, one should place a redirect at the other title and mention both forms in the lead". The solution we have come to uses both forms in the lead. By changing such, YOU are violating wikipedia rules. Rarelibra 18:33, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

It would sure be nice if we just had one place to discuss this all. I now have Markussep accusing me of vandalism on my talk page. *rolls eyes* Taalo 18:48, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I have no opinion on the fight, but I'd like to point out to both of you (crossposted to Ryulong) that these moves are creating several double redirects, and it would be nice if y'all could clean up the mess when you're done moving things. --Golbez 20:33, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I've cleaned it all up and posted the sources/references reflecting the correct naming. Sorry about that, all! Rarelibra 20:47, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Provinces of Italy

Rarelibra, can we actually list as a reference that countries and cities website? I was thinking that citations like this included on the page, can at least start getting people to realize what the truth of the matter is. Taalo 19:44, 2 October 2006 (UTC)j

Taalo - yes, we can. Also list http://www.statoids.com/uit.html, which shows Bolzano (NOT Bozen) as the proper name for the province (we are definitely being fair by listing it as Bolzano-Bozen). Also list http://www.world-gazetteer.com/wg.php?x=&men=gmap&lng=en&dat=32&geo=-108&srt=npan&col=aohdq, which shows a map with the name as "Trentino-Alto Adige". Also list http://www.world-gazetteer.com/wg.php?x=&men=gcis&lng=en&dat=32&geo=-108&srt=npan&col=aohdq&pt=c&va=x&geo=-1956, showing the cities in the properly named region. And this http://www.world-gazetteer.com/wg.php?x=&men=gpro&lng=en&dat=32&geo=-1956&srt=npan&col=aohdq&pt=c&va=x&geo=491419135, showing "Bozen" listed as an ALTERNATE name for Bolzano (which, I remember reading, a user who LIVES THERE says the name is). Also list this one http://www.worldstatesmen.org/Italy_Autonomous_regions.htm, showing the actual name as "Trentino-Alto Adige" as well.

Yes, exactly, it is definitely being fair listing both names (Bolzano-Bozen), yet you have people who want to call it South Tyrol only, or Bozen only, or change it Bozen-Bolzano. It is like these people have zero shame, or are just very thick skinned. Taalo 20:33, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

At this point, I am pissed off enough to say "screw it" and have the name be JUST "Trentino-Alto Adige", reflecting what the sources say. The "South Tyrol" is in need of a 'tourism' page, really (or a sub-page topic from the actual region). I'm tired of those that don't recognize the POV. They went throught this a while on the Cyprus page until they learned to accept BOTH Greek and Turkish names for districts (listed AFTER the English equivalent). I'll list the official references and they cannot argue against them. Rarelibra 19:56, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Having friends from Cyprus, I can just imagine! You would think, at the very least, people interested in WP could accept these sort of comprimises where we SHARE. I don't know, it makes me sad to see people in the Old Country act like this. This is just another thing that makes me proud to be born and raised in the US. Despite our faults, we seem to be able to get away from this petty b.s. Also, growing up here has given me a World view of things, including my famlies region. Instead, sometimes those who have never left the area, see things in an extremely narrow view (and I'm not looking down on them for this, but it -can- be the case). Anyway, we'll see if everyone can chill the heck out, or if it turns into a revert war.. Still though, it is beyond me why people can't accept pages that have Bolzano-Bozen, for example. This is what is done in the region, for this exact reason, to take care of everyone! Taalo 20:36, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

first warning

Thank you for your contributions. Please note that there are several conventions regarding the naming of Misplaced Pages articles which you should bear in mind when moving pages such as South Tyrol. First, article names should give priority to what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature. Second, names of Misplaced Pages articles should be optimized for readers over editors, and for a general audience over specialists. There are several specific guidelines regarding naming of pages (by topic, by title characteristic,...) that are listed on our page regarding name conventions Misplaced Pages:Article titles, and in the category of naming conventions. Additionally, technical guidance regarding Misplaced Pages page names can be found at Help:Page name. Related guidance regarding what happens when two different names are used to refer to the same topic, or when a single name refers to several meanings that each deserve their own article, can be found at Misplaced Pages:Redirect and Misplaced Pages:Disambiguation. How and when to include a namespace qualifier in a page name is explained in Misplaced Pages:Namespace. Guidance on changing page names can be found in: Help:Moving a page. If you are not sure whether renaming a page is appropriate or desirable, please consult Misplaced Pages:Requested moves. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page. Thank you. Gryffindor 21:05, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Do not copy and paste contents of articles around. Take a look here Misplaced Pages:How to fix cut and paste moves and please clean up the mess you have created, otherwise a sysop has to do it. Gryffindor 21:09, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

You Gryffindor, have NO SHAME. I'm not surprised by your actions one bit. But I'm am glad that you are showing off your true colours. How you can try to use the WP framework and rules to further your POV is just discusting. In fact, you should relinguish your admin rights if you have a descent bone in your body. You know exactly what you did on 25 Oct 2005 with the moving of the Trentino-Alto Adige regional page. You moved without discussion, and then cemented this change. You also know what you have done on all pages with regard to this region. This is unethical, and you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself. You can blow this off as accusations, POV, a personal attack, whatever you want. BUT, there comes a time though when someone has to remove the mask of what you are doing. Going as far as switching the city names around, and now we have the Province of Bolzano/Bozen called "South Tyrol". This is offensive to anyone who wants to build this project, or is a human being, for that matter! Taalo 21:12, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I repeat, do not copy and paste contents of articles around, because this destroys the history of the articles and is a difficult process to repair. Please revert the changes done on the articles or someone else will have to clean up. Disregarding this rule can amount to a charge of vandalism. Gryffindor 21:38, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry my dear Gryffindor, but what you have done to these pages over the past year is an extreme case of vandalism. The truth of this will come out. Taalo 21:42, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

assume good faith

Template:Agf1 Gryffindor 21:13, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

You are posting these rules like a robot. Listen, I think everyone will assume good faith. But do you realize the meaning of these words? Assuming good faith, is different than taking everything a user does and accepting it. Your actions have lost you your assumption of good faith. I do not hold your methods in good faith. That is your issue, not mine, or everyone elses. Taalo 21:16, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Check out what Gryffindor posted on my talk page. Gryffindor, you are showing your true colours all by yourself. Taalo 21:18, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Cut-and-paste

As you can see, I disagree with Gryffindor on most of the substantive points at issue. But he is quite right in saying that pages like South Tyrol should not be moved without discussion. We have a process for requesting moves; please click and use it.

Most importantly, it disrupts Misplaced Pages to move pages by cutting and pasting, like you did with South Tyrol. This is disruptive to WP; it loses article history, which we have to retain for GFDL. Please stop now. Your way to overcome Gryffindor is to persuade other editors he is wrong. You have not begun well; but it should still be possible. ;-> Septentrionalis 22:31, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Let me butt in please. If you note, Gryffindor HIMSELF moved Trentino-Alto Adige to Trentino-South Tyrol on 25, Oct 2005. He did this without discussion, consensus, or a move request. Also, pages like South Tyrol. Please look at any list of provinces of Italy. The province is the Province of Bolzano/Bozen. These users, in particular Gryffindor, are for some reason or another trying to push an extreme German POV. They are essentially trying to re-invent what is the English reference to this region and even province. Besides having to persuade editors what is right and wrong information, is there no recourse to address users (and even an admin!) such as Gryffindor, for what he is doing on Misplaced Pages? I'm sorry to make this discussion about a user, but besides the discusting work that was done to rename all these places, the people who are pushing this should answer for it. Or so it would seem. Taalo 23:59, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Cut and paste

Please do NOT perform cut and paste moves such as those at South Tyrol and others. It is disruptive and ruins the page history. In the future, please request that these moves be made for you. Ryūlóng 23:47, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Fine, if things were done in a disruptive manner, thanks for bringing it up. But, Ryolong, can you at least help us go about the correct way of fixing these? For one, I don't want to see Gryffindor get the chance to let this situation idle for another year in various talk rooms, where him and his buddys can force their own naming convention for good. That is how he originally got WP where it is now. For all intents and purposes, they have hijacked the pages for this region, and are moving everything to names that are clearly German POV. I mean, it isn't even something you have to look hard to find, it is right in everyone's face! Taalo 00:04, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Cut and paste moves are not allowed as they cause copyright problems, etc. Doing them repetitively will be considered blockable disruption. Please take these articles to WP:RM instead. Let me know if you have any questions. —Wknight94 (talk) 00:38, 3 October 2006 (UTC)