Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 17:34, 14 October 2006

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Misplaced Pages. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome!. Mikkalai 01:16, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

For making one title go directly to another, see Misplaced Pages:Redirects. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 05:56, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Image tagging

Hi there! I was just enjoying your Image:European Middle Neolithic.gif when I noticed that it lacks an image copyright tag. I notice you say it's free to use, but we have tags so that it's clear exactly how free they are. It'd be great if you could peruse the available copyright tags and label your images (most people use either {{PD-self}} or {{GFDL-self}}). There's a recent push to delete untagged images as it's a legal weak point for the Wikimedia Foundation, and I'd hate for us to lose such useful maps. — Laura Scudder | Talk 01:25, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Solved. --Sugaar 15:07, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Anbotoko Mari / Mari (goddess)

I've followed your suggestion, the main article is now at Mari (goddess). Could you please check in at Talk:Mari (goddess) and indicate if you still have a problem with how this is structured? - Jmabel | Talk 04:17, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Hey

Have you heard of Hank Wesselman? You might like the guy's work, considering your interest in prehistory, psychadelics for spiritual discovery, and other interesting things. I had him as a teacher for an anthropology class on Magic, Witchcraft, and Religion and he was pretty cool. He talked a bit about psychadelic use and such. Also, I see your an anarchist in Basque, and so I wanted to know your take on the Basque seperatist movement. I don't know much about it, and like lots of world movements, it's hard to judge from the outside, especially living in America with the horrible media we get here. The Ungovernable Force 05:00, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's always curious to know about such individuals. But guess I'm just way too rationalist to believe in Nainoa or whatever... but it's a good story anyhow. Enjoy. --Sugaar 11:34, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

European exploration of Africa

Great job man! Vale! The Ogre 01:47, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Help Bizkaia!

There is a big dispute in the Biscay page. A Miami user (User:Miamitom) is trying to get all the searches for "Vizcaya" to the page he has created about "Villa Vizcaya" in Miami. Another user created a disambig page, but he keeps on adding "Villa Vizcaya" article content to the disambig page. He is doing all he can to put this article as the main article for "Vizcaya". Right now he is doing vandalism on Biscay. What can we do? how do we report this vandalism? David 13:49, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Hello

You commented on my request to be unblocked and you denied it. The reason I was asking to be unblocked was because someone was blocked with an IP address the same as mine. It prevented me from making edits too. I also requested it more then 15 days ago and since then forgot about it. I have been able to make edits since then.

I didn't do that (at least I don't think I did). All I did was to try to post a comment to your discussion page and it did not appear. I've tried again with the same result.

Hold on a second! I actually wrote in the banner. Well, don't nlame me: I tried to post a new comment. Just that. --Sugaar 00:56, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

You wrote "Erge? == I just realized that you added Erge in the Basque mythology article, as a minor character. I must say I have never heard of it and, in first sight, I thought of vandalism. Where did you get that information from?"

First off I got my information from http://www.mythome.org/miscurl.html#Basques. I'm not sure if it's 100% accurate but it appears to be accurate and I didn't vandalize the page.

It's good that it's sourced. I just had never heard of this one. --Sugaar 00:56, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Second, I made the edit about Erge at least as far back as Dec 2005 maybe even farther.

I know. But I didn't realize before. I'm not usually so active keeping an eye on the pages I create/edit. --Sugaar 00:56, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Finally, are you saying you blocked me because I'm not blocked right now nor have I gotten a warning about vandalism. NeoJustin 21:44, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

No. I can't block anyone. I'm totally ignorant on the issue of your blocking. And have no opinion on that.

In fact I understood that the banner was about another user some Progrocker1991 or whatever. All this Wikibureucracy is a mess, don't you think? --Sugaar 00:56, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello Sugaar.

I see you contribute in Wiki. I am now contributing in some articles. One in the English people's page. Now there is incredible new evidence from the emergence of populations genetics that is myth shattering. Read the discussion page in the English people's page and the Scottish people's page. We are now discussing two epoch making books. Blood of the Isles, by Brian Sykes and Origns of Britons, by Oppenheimer, both recognized among the present leading population geneticsts of our time. The problem is that, in consonance with the latest research in population genetics, it destroys the Anglo-Saxon myth and the Nordic Myth and a lot of people in the British people's pages do not want to post verifiable and reputable information in their peoples' pages about that issue, which goes clearly against all Wiki principles. But you know, since anyone can edit this site, they keep deleting verifiable, updated and incredibly important information. Just have a look at the English people and the Scottish people discussion page and tell me your opinion. Veritas et Severitas 00:32, 10 October 2006 (UTC).

I've replied in your own talk page, with a useful paper and my own clinal reconstruction based on it. I can't guarantee that I will be able to keep at pace with those articles but I will try to post in the talk pages as well. Thanks for your trust. --Sugaar 09:28, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

User:LSLM is actually distorting the facts quite dramatically. Firstly the paper you have refered to several times, A Y chromosome census of the British Isles is extensively cited in the English people article. The Welsh people article states quite clearly that most Welsh people are mainly derived from the paleolithic population of Europe, that expanded out of Iberia at the end of the last major glaciation. Indeed both English people and Welsh people make note of the fact that R1b is the most extensive Y chromosome haplogroup in the population. The articles have all of this information available already, and are supported by proper scientific peer reviewed papers, to claim that there is some conspiracy to avoid mentioning this information displays breathtaking arrogance, it's already there. LSLM seems to want to construct some sort of bond between British and Spanish people that simply does not exist, I have had to mention to him several times that it is absurd to call the Iberian peninsula of seven millenia ago Spain. Spain did not exist at this time. He keeps conflating political institutions (states like Spain) with geographical areas (like Iberia), and he keeps calling these paleolithic people Celtic. It is extremely confusing, both for people trying to debate with him, and I suspect for himself. Indeed the reason that I keep removing LSLM's edit is because he keeps citing the popular press (in breach of wikipedia guidelines for science), rather than reputable scientific sources. (see here) LSLM is claiming something that is just not true, that this information is not mentioned in the pages, but it is. It is also incorrect to claim that Sykes's book Blood of the Isles is somehow groundbreaking, it's nothing particularly new, this information has been available for quite some time, both A Y chromosome census of the British Isles and Y Chromosome Evidence for Anglo-Saxon Mass Migration clearly demonstrate that there is a significant non-Anglo-Saxon contribution to the English population. I have also cited the paper Estimating the Impact of Prehistoric Admixture on the Genome of Europeans, which gives similar results to Sykes's book, this has been cited on Welsh people for a very long time indeed. Many scientific papers have been published on this, I have slowly been trying to get a list of relevant papers together, my list is here if you'd like to take a look. All the best. Alun 05:56, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I see. I'd say that the Iberia-Britain link does exist, in the sense of a common genetic background of all Western or Atlantic Europe (including Denmark, btw), of which Basques, Gascons, Bretons and British Celts are the best preserved "living fossils". But LSLM's approach to the subject is quite confuse, assuming many things that are not likely. Even if there was some migration from Iberia to Ireland or Britain in the Megalithic age, what is possible, R1b would not be the marker that would identify it (maybe some of its subclades but there are no such detailed works that I know of) but Mediterranean haplogroups like J or, specially, E3, that are very small in Iberia and much more in Britain.

My apportation to the talk pages (not to the articles themselves probably - I already have enough trying to put some order in the articles of Basque theme, let the Welsh write their own history) will be neutral anyhow. I dislike building a history of any people based on interpretations of mythology only. Mythology is interesting and must be mentioned but as such, not giving it credibility by mixing the apples of the legends with the oranges of the archaeological and genetic facts arbitrarily.

Thanks for the link to that other paper, that I don't think I have read before. I'll take a deep look at it probably.

Enjoy, --Sugaar 07:49, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

PS, greetings to a fellow anarchist (are you an anarcho-syndicalist?). I recently read Stuart Christie's book Granny Made me an Anarchist. Will be getting Demanding the Impossible: History of Anarchism and Anarchists in the Spanish Civil War: v. 1 soon. Nice to talk to a proper Iberian Anarchist, you guys rock. No pasaran. Alun 13:16, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm actually more like Autonomous but I'm still affiliated to CNT. Rather than Iberian, I feel Basque, European and Human (in whichever order). I have major grudges with Spaniards and pan-Iberianists - in fact that's one of the reasons why I'm not active in CNT anymore: they totally ignore the national problem in the name of internationalism.

Anyhow, forget the myths: one thing was in 1936-37, and another very different is today. Too many people in CNT seem to live in the past. I look to the present and the future. Personally I'm much more inspired by the fights of the 70s and 80s (and even 60s) than by the 30s. We live in a different age: the industrial worker has been replaced by the social worker (for good or bad).

And I haven't read any of those books. Have you read anything of Negri? --Sugaar 15:15, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I get your point, I deliberately avoided saying Spanish, so chose Iberian, it's hard to know how people identify. Personally I feel Welsh and British and European etc, but none of these are political identities. For example I struggle with the idea of Welsh independence because I don't think that a Welsh state would necessarily be any better or worse than a British one, just changing one elite for another. I've been thinking a lot about mutualism recently and am a big fan of collectivism. I haven't read a lot of theory as such, but started to question capitalism via socialism and communism. I regected these as too authoritarian, and read a bit of Chomsky and have read arround Misplaced Pages regarding Anarchism over the last couple of years or so. I particularly like the article Anarchism and capitalism. Most of what I know I know from Misplaced Pages though. I haven't read any Negri, but thanks for the tip, I'll get hold of some and have a read. Alun 17:02, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't think a Basque state would be any better in the class-dialectic sense, but I think it will be better for the survival of a milennary culture and that's a point. After all we are not fighting in vaccuum but in social realities and in general the Basque Country is more progressive than Spain. Maybe this can't be extrapolated to Wales, I don't know. In any case, it's a matter of the right to self-determination, a principle that all libertarians (anarchists, autonomous) should support.

As I grow older I'm less interested in abstract political or economical theories and more in the reality of self-organization of the people, what is what someone over here called self-determining and self-determinated self-determination, that is self-determination as an active praxis and not a political goal solved in a poll. I think that's something Negri, from his Marxist background, also says: that the masses (the people(s)) will choose their goals and methods, that those will be (are) flexible and acording to their (our) needs, that no elite, either intelectual or political will define that in a meeting room.

From non-ideological readings (more like sciences), I also realize that systems (including socio-economical ones) must face a major crisis to perform radical changes.

Well, anyhow, that's why I am in Misplaced Pages: it's something like anarchy at work, with all its limitations but with all its potential. --Sugaar 19:50, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Disambiguation

I disagree with both of your choices, but I don't care that much, so do as you will. Regards. -- Jeff3000 12:40, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

The BAP debate

What I think the other user may have been meaning by referring you to WP:AGF and WP:NPA is as follows:

• By claiming that your work was being "sabotaged", you were casting aspersions on what he was doing, which was a personal attack
• Likewise, you were assuming that he was simply nominating the article for deletion because he felt like it, rather than crediting him with having thought it through

For the record, I'm leaning towards the band being notable anyway. The argument that English-language sources need to be supplied is a nonsense, since something of this nature is going to generate more sources in Basque than English. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 12:32, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

I was maybe a little rough about that, but really it felt like sabotage because the article had just been created (what I did to fill in a link from another article, btw). There were no arguments in favor of deletion but just abstract appeals to WP pages without clear reasoning.

I do think that the deletion nomination was quite capricious, anyhow. --Sugaar 15:31, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Your Personal Attack

Your statement "Are you a neonazi troll?" to User:Dark Tichondrias on this edit is considered a personal attack which is against Misplaced Pages's policy on personal attacks.--Dark Tichondrias 16:44, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

It's not a statement (affirmation), it's a question. The White people page has been repetaely vanadalized by such people and, considering your argumentation "Stormfront says this, this other minuscule Nazi group says that", I was wondering if it is your case. Can you reply with sincerity? --Sugaar 17:34, 14 October 2006 (UTC)