Talk:Clinton–Lewinsky scandal: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 15:53, 20 December 2017 edit79.65.126.84 (talk) →Requested move 3 December 2017: self-correct← Previous edit		Revision as of 20:32, 21 December 2017 edit undoCookieMonster755 (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, Pending changes reviewers14,703 edits →Requested move 3 December 2017: opposeNext edit →
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	*'''Clinton-Lewinsky''' ]] 13:41, 13 December 2017 (UTC)		*'''Clinton-Lewinsky''' ]] 13:41, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
	*'''Oppose''' as current title is concise and the alternatives are various and not necessarily preferable. Google hits: 400,000 ("Lewinsky scandal"); 298,000 ("Monica Lewinsky scandal"); 30,300 ("Clinton-Lewinsky scandal"). Searching for ''Clinton Lewinsky scandal'' (no inverted commas) brings up 769,000 hits including the above and other variants such as "Clinton/Lewinsky affair", "Lewinsky affair", "Clinton/Lewinsky sex scandal", etcetera. Considering this, I believe a near consensus on an alternative title should be reached before requesting any move. ] (]) 15:52, 20 December 2017 (UTC)		*'''Oppose''' as current title is concise and the alternatives are various and not necessarily preferable. Google hits: 400,000 ("Lewinsky scandal"); 298,000 ("Monica Lewinsky scandal"); 30,300 ("Clinton-Lewinsky scandal"). Searching for ''Clinton Lewinsky scandal'' (no inverted commas) brings up 769,000 hits including the above and other variants such as "Clinton/Lewinsky affair", "Lewinsky affair", "Clinton/Lewinsky sex scandal", etcetera. Considering this, I believe a near consensus on an alternative title should be reached before requesting any move. ] (]) 15:52, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
			*'''Oppose''' – per ]. The common name of this scandal is ''the Lewinsky scandal'' and the current title is not ambiguous, as it is widely known that Monica Lewinsky was involved in the scandal, with it being known as "lewinskygate". '''<font face="Arial">] <small>]</small></font>''' 20:32, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

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I did not have sexual relations with that woman was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 11 July 2009 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Clinton–Lewinsky scandal. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

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Untitled

Why is it an impeachable offence for a President to pork a bimbo? I though the entire 'inquest' was led by the Republican Starr in a Congressional kangaroo court; like the McCarthy court. Where's the hot 'n juicy bit about cigars.203.220.80.187 (talk) 08:15, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Needs to be better explained.

I don't understand a lot of this stuff. Why did Lewinsky tell this Tripp lady about it? What exactly happened in the court room? All it says is that he denied it, and in spite of the blue dress and other evidence, they failed to convict him. Why? How? Then some judge holds him "in contempt of court": for what action? What did he do that was in contempt of court? It's like there are huge gaps missing from the story here, like it was written by someone who assumes that the reader is already familiar with the case. AnnaGoFast (talk) 01:05, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

How did a private extra-marital affair become a political scandal? Kortoso (talk) 19:43, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Should we change the title of this

Calling it the Lewinsky scandal seems to be shaming the victim (Monica Lewinsky) and not directing attention to President Clinton. I propose we rename it to something like President Clinton Sex Scandal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:206:8100:6810:54EA:59CA:63D8:5C2C (talk) 08:46, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 3 December 2017

It has been proposed in this section that Clinton–Lewinsky scandal be renamed and moved somewhere else, with the name being decided below.

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

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Lewinsky scandal → ? – Which is a proper title? Dokurrat (talk) 18:26, 3 December 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. bd2412 T 13:05, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Comment: I found this article has many redirect pages (Here they are), so I put them here for reference. Dokurrat (talk) 18:07, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Provisionally support Monica Lewinsky scandal, if her last name alone is not sufficient. I doubt there would be any other reasonable meaning for the proposed title. ONR (talk) 18:57, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
- @Old Naval Rooftops:, do you have an opinion on "Clinton-Lewinsky scandal"? bd2412 T 18:34, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
  - I believe that to be an acceptable title. ONR (talk) 14:50, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
Comment: Is there an actual proposed title for this RM discussion, or is the OP merely asking a question because there are a lot of redirects pointing to here? The number of redirects should in no way influence the article title, because a subject may have various alternative names, but only one common name. It looks like the last RM discussion occurred back in 2008 (see archived discussion), and it appears that many who commented there felt that we should keep "Lewinsky scandal" as the WP:COMMONNAME. Proposed names like "Clinton/Lewinsky Scandal" or "Bill Clinton/Monica Lewinsky Scandal" were rejected, apparently because they were too POV and not common names back then. In a similar vein, a title like "President Clinton Sex Scandal" (as an IP suggested days earlier) could also be considered bias/POV and not a common name. For what it's worth, there are news sources that still use "Lewinsky scandal". Zzyzx11 (talk) 19:17, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
- Reply: @Zzyzx11: Of course I'm seriously asking for a proper title and for moving (or not moving) this article. I thought listing current redirects may help generate some new ideas. And forgive my bad English. Dokurrat (talk) 19:41, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
- Reply 2: @Zzyzx11: Oh, My fault for not discovering such moving request of this page has been requested/discussed before (now archived). Dokurrat (talk) 20:11, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
Support Monica Lewinsky scandal or Clinton-Lewinsky scandal. The longer form, Bill Clinton-Monica Lewinsky scandal, would also be acceptable. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 22:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
Oppose unless there's a consensus to merge to Impeachment of Bill Clinton, this is the best name I can think of, and none of the suggestions above are better IMO. power~enwiki (π, ν) 06:43, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
Oppose: I'm not sure why there would be any confusion with this title. It seems like the WP:COMMONNAME to me. "Monica Lewinsky scandal" seems unnecessarily long; there's only one scandal named after a Lewinsky. And we shouldn't use "Clinton sex scandal" because there are multiple Bill Clinton sexual misconduct allegations. And any kind of hyphenated "Clinton-Lewinsky" name is probably far less common than either name alone. --Closeapple (talk) 12:10, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
Speedy close Move request presents no rationale whatsoever._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 21:24, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
Support moving to "Clinton-Lewinsky scandal". More descriptive and accurate (yet still concise) title. Paintspot Infez (talk) 17:03, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
Support move to "Clinton-Lewinsky scandal" per Paintspot. As time passes, the less notable person involved will become more and more obscure to new readers. bd2412 T 19:27, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
Oppose I don't like these move requests where no clear new title is put forward, the existing one is concise and to the point. PatGallacher (talk) 00:39, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
Support move to "Clinton-Lewinsky scandal" For people not from that era or not from the US, Lewinsky doesnt mean much. The scandal didnt just involve her, it was Clinton that makes it all noteworthy. Bonewah (talk) 21:11, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
- In case it was not clear, i still support the move per my statements above. Also would support merge to Impeachment of Bill Clinton. Bonewah (talk) 21:32, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
Support moving to "Clinton-Lewinsky scandal" per comments above. —usernamekiran(talk) 19:20, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Note: relisting following improper closure by a discussion participant. bd2412 T 13:10, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Clinton-Lewinsky Red Slash 13:41, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
Oppose as current title is concise and the alternatives are various and not necessarily preferable. Google hits: 400,000 ("Lewinsky scandal"); 298,000 ("Monica Lewinsky scandal"); 30,300 ("Clinton-Lewinsky scandal"). Searching for Clinton Lewinsky scandal (no inverted commas) brings up 769,000 hits including the above and other variants such as "Clinton/Lewinsky affair", "Lewinsky affair", "Clinton/Lewinsky sex scandal", etcetera. Considering this, I believe a near consensus on an alternative title should be reached before requesting any move. 79.65.126.84 (talk) 15:52, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
Oppose – per WP:COMMONNAME. The common name of this scandal is the Lewinsky scandal and the current title is not ambiguous, as it is widely known that Monica Lewinsky was involved in the scandal, with it being known as "lewinskygate". CookieMonster755 𝚨-𝛀 20:32, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

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Requested move 11 December 2017

Collapsing discussion started after improper closure of previous discussion bd2412 T 13:03, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Lewinsky scandal → Clinton–Lewinsky scandal – "Clinton–Lewinsky scandal" is a more descriptive and accurate (yet still concise) title. As mentioned by others, "as time passes, the less notable person involved will become more and more obscure to new readers." "For people not from that era or not from the US, Lewinsky doesn't mean much. The scandal didn't just involve her; it was Clinton that makes it all noteworthy." Also, if moved, the dash should be this one: "–", per WP's guidelines. Paintspot Infez (talk) 14:50, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Mentioned above

Collapsing cherry-picked comments from previous RM which should have no bearing on the result of this discussion. Jenks24 (talk) 11:03, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Support Monica Lewinsky scandal or Clinton-Lewinsky scandal. The longer form, Bill Clinton-Monica Lewinsky scandal, would also be acceptable. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 22:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
- Support the form Clinton–Lewinsky scandal and echo the remarks {19:27, 5 December 2017 and 02:17, 12 December 2017) by bd2412, below. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 07:33, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
Support moving to "Clinton–Lewinsky scandal". More descriptive and accurate (yet still concise) title. Paintspot Infez (talk) 17:03, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
Support move to "Clinton-Lewinsky scandal" per Paintspot. As time passes, the less notable person involved will become more and more obscure to new readers. bd2412 T 19:27, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
- @Paintspot: Although I agree with this proposal, it is inappropriate to copy the signed comments of editors from a previous discussion in this way. I would recommend against doing this again. You can always inform participants in a previous discussion of a new discussion on that topic, so long as all participants are informed. bd2412 T 02:17, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
Support move to "Clinton-Lewinsky scandal" For people not from that era or not from the US, Lewinsky doesnt mean much. The scandal didnt just involve her, it was Clinton that makes it all noteworthy. Bonewah (talk) 21:11, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
Support moving to "Clinton-Lewinsky scandal" per comments above. —usernamekiran(talk) 19:20, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

@Roman Spinner, Bonewah, and Usernamekiran: Pinging other participants whose previous comments have been copied here. bd2412 T 02:19, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

New opinions

~~Close nomination immediately: Discussion rigged.~~ The nominator User:Paintspot just did a non-admin closure on the previous discussion, opened this one, then copy-pasted (without the contributors' consent) just the opinions that agree with Paintspot. How can that possibly be legitimate? --Closeapple (talk) 09:21, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
I'm fine with continuing the RM discussion now that admin Jenks24 has collapsed the consensus-rigging to prevent that from getting counted. Thanks! --Closeapple (talk) 12:23, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
I am not. I think we should speedy close this, let it sit for a while (a few weeks, maybe a month), and then restart it on even footing with no shenanigans. bd2412 T 13:00, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

On second thought, the non-admin closure by a participant in the previous discussion is itself improper. I am undoing that closure. bd2412 T 13:02, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Aaaah, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to be harmful in these discussion edits, and I won't do it again. I thoroughly apologize and take responsibility for my actions. Paintspot Infez (talk) 14:01, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

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