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Sources on the Kshatriya-claim are examind at User:Joshua Jonathan/Raju (Kshatriya) sources

Raju Suryavamshi and Chandravamshi Kshatriya

HI ,

I have provided many proof previously in raju wiki talk for Raju/Varma suryavaamshi and chandravamshi kshatriya.

But someone wantedly deleting the talk page.

But below is the classification of raju

proofs for raju suryavamshi - India Archaeological reports from temples

• (Proof1)

No. 45. (A.R. No. 491 of 1906.) Pulivendla, Pulivendla Taluk, Cuddapah District. On a slab set up at the entrance of the Ranganathasvamin temple. Krishnaraya, AD 1509. This is dated Saka 1431, Sukla, Kartika su. 12, corresponding to AD 1509, October 24, which was, Wednesday. It records a gift of the village Kunddal Kundu to the god Sri Ranga Raju of Pulivindla by Narasayya Deva Maharaju, brother of Basava Raju, son of Tamma Raju, grandson of Valla Bharaya and great-grandson of Bejawada Madhava Varma of Vasishtha-gotra and Surya-vamsa. The gift village is said to be situated in Pulivindalasthala, a subdivision of Mulkinadu in Gandhi Kotasima of Udayagiri Rajya.

• (Proof2)

No. 201. (A.R. No. 161 of 1905.) Markapur, Markapur Taluk, Kurnool District. On the east wall, left of entrance, of the antarala-mandapa in the Chenna-kesava-svamin temple. Sadasiva, AD 1555. This is dated Saka 1476, Ananda, Magha su. 7, corresponding to AD 1555, 29 January.

It records a gift of the various toll incomes due from the 18 villages, viz., Marakarapuram, Channavaram, Konddapuram, Yachavaram, Rayavaram, Gonguladinna, Tarnumbadu, Surepalli, Vanalapuram, Chanareddipalle, Gangireddipalle, Korevanipalle, Medisettipalle, Gollapalle, Jammuladinna, Tellambadu, Kamalpuram and Kondapalli to god Chennakesava by Maha Mandalesvara Madiraju Narappadeva Maharaju, son of Aubhalayya Deva Maharaju, grandson of Maha Mandalesvara Madiraju Singa Raju Deva Maharaju, of Kasyapa-gotra and Surya-vamsa, and nephew of Maha Mandalesvara Rama Raju Thirumalaraju. The gift villages are said to be situated in Kochcherla Kotasima which was held by the donor as Nayankara from the king. Records in addition that the lanjasunkham (levy on prostitutes) collected during the festivals at Marakapuram was also made over to the temple and that fie out of every six dishes of offerings to the deity, were to be made over to the satra (feeding house) for feeding paradesi Brahmanas of the smartha sect, the sixth dish being the share of the sthanikas, the adhikaris and the karanas.

• (Proof3)

No. 205. (A.R. No. 59 of 1915.) Chinna Ahobalam, Sirvel Taluk, Kurnool District. On the west wall of the Narasimha-svamin shrine in the Narasimha-svamin temple. Sadasiva, AD 1555. This is dated Saka 1478 (current), Rakshasa, Sravana ba. 7 corresponding to 9 August 1555,(Friday). The record is damaged and fragmentary. It seems to register a gift (of land) to god Ahobala Narasimha by Ganapatiraju who belonged to the Kasyapa-gotra Apastamba-sutra and Yajus-sakha and was the son of Nandi Raju and the grandson of Maha Mandalesvara Krishna Raju of the solar race.

• (Proof4)

No. 235. (A.R. No. 79 of 1915.) Pedda Ahobalam, Sirvel Taluk, Kurnool District. On a slab set up near the sixteen-pillared mandapa on the way to upper Ahobalam. Sadasiva, AD 1558. This is dated Saka 14, Kalayukt, Margasirsha su. 3, corresponding to 13 November 1558, (Sunday). It records the grant of a piece of land and some money by Emberumanar-Jiyyamgaru, the mudrakarta of Vam Sathagopa-Jiyyamgaru and others for conducting certain festivals when god Ahobalesvara was seated in the 16 pillared mandapa constructed by Maha-mandalesvara Kurucheti Timmaraju, son of Vobul Raju and grandson of Baichana Deva Chodaraju of the solar race, when the god was taken (in procession) to Diguva Tirupati and back to the temple (nagaru)

• (Proof5)

No. 240. (A.R. No. 311 of 1922.) Vyapulapalle, Hamlet of Mudivedu, Madanapalle Taluk, Chittoor District. On a rock in the village. Sadasiva, AD 1559. This is dated Saka 1481, Siddharthin, Sravana ba. 12 Friday corresponding to 31 July 1559. The weekday, however, was Monday. It registers a gift of wet and dry lands to god Lakshmi Narasimha at Ramagiridurga by Jillela Vengalayya-Deva-Maharaju, son of Krishnam Raju and grandson of Peda Krishnam Raju of Kasyapa-gotra, Apastamba-sutra and Yajus-sakha. The gift lands are stated to be situated in Vempalapalli in the village of Mudivada in Vailipatisima belonging to Rama-giri-durga of Penugonda Marjavada which the donor is said to have obtained as amara from Rama Raju Tirumalaraju Deva Maharaju.

• (Proof6)

No. 251. (A.R. No. 15 of 1904.) Hampi, Hospet Taluk, Bellary District. On the north wall of the mandapa in front of the deserted shrine to the west of the Vitthalasvamin temple. Sadasiva, 1561 AD. This is dated Saka 1483, Raudri (current), Phalguna, the other details being lost. It registers an agreement (kaulu) granted by Kurucheti Sri Ranga Raju, son of Obulraju of the solar race and Kasyapa-gotra to a person (name lost) for his having level-led and brought under cultivation a specified piece of land stipulating an annual payment of one ghatti varaha by him into the treasury of god Vitthalesvara and a fourth share of the produce to the donor. The details pertaining to the rest of the produce are lost. Refers to a gift of garden land made to (the shrine of) Tirumangai-Alvar on the occasion of Prathama-ekadasi.

:Sitush please answer about these valuable proof.

• Proof of what? Please cite these report more fully and, better yet, cite something a bit more secondary than dig reports. Also, I'll ping Sitush for you: you need to sign if you want to ping. Drmies (talk) 19:51, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Rajapalayam and Tanjore Kshatriya Raju.

Large number of Telugu speaking kshatriya raju present in Rajapalayam who migrated during vijaynagara in deep South of Tamil and few population around Tanjore and trichy region who belong to Chalukya Cholas, when emperor Rajendra Chalukya alais Kulottunga Chola crowned as chola king 1070 AD. Pusapati Kumaraswamy Raju , first CM of Madras presidency after independence , Late Ramasubramanya Raju , former chair man Ramco groups belongs to Rajapalayam. Truth 4321 (talk) 07:18, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Please see WP:V. If people keep making these unsubstantiated claims on the talk page I will remove them because they're just noise. - Sitush (talk) 11:56, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Sitush, I am impressed that you could make sense of that. Drmies (talk) 18:39, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

One thing I have discovered over my years here is that if someone is editing a caste article and they have truth as part of their username, it doesn't end well. Perhaps this time will be an exception. I point all readers in the direction of WP:VNT. - Sitush (talk) 21:41, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

I have provided enough proof that presence of kshatriya raju in Rajapalayam and around Tanjore region.you can easily refer those proof by visiting government sites (poosapati Kumaraswamy Raju was cm of Madras presidency after independence) and Ramco industries site. even though you are not accepting means, you are having vengeance in Andra Kshatriya and not at all listening proof and trying to show they are not Kshatriya. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Truth 4321 (talk • contribs) 13:55, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

This article is a piece of shit. The Rajus are accepted as Kshatriyas by the Indian Government and many historians. I fail to understand why these mofos want to show them in a negative way. I assume these bxxxx do this out of pure jealousy.

Semi-protected edit request on 13 March 2018

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

2601:48:C501:B389:7CE4:EC42:AB32:C534 (talk) 02:51, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

The above article about Rajus is completely false. They are regarded as Kshatriyas by the governments and high courts and we have proofs that they have been Kshatriyas since at least the medieval times. Most of the Historians agree to these claims.

The below is a proof. https://books.google.com/books?dq=History+of+the+Reddi+Kingdoms+dantuluri&focus=searchwithinvolume&id=diYLAQAAIAAJ&q=Racavaru

Please don't use wikipedia to spread misinformation.

 Not done: By claiming the article's subject is a member of a certain caste, the claim attempts to assign a WP:RANK to the article's subject. The threshold for mentioning something in an article is not whether the subject is a member of a certain caste. Likewise, not being a member of this caste would not make something unmentionable. These caste descriptions are about having published, non-trivial information (i.e., more than a mere mention) in multiple sources independent of the subject. The particular reference provided in this request is good, but if the claim is ever to be mentioned, more references ought to be found. Spintendo      07:50, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

There is no caste called Raju officially. It is called Kshatriyas. They write Kshatriya as their caste when they apply for jobs and also during election surveys. The governments and courts acknowledge them as Kshatriyas. See the below link https://books.google.com/books?id=zG4JuQMA-a8C&pg=PA101&dq=andhra+kshatriya&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjimJOutO_ZAhWul-AKHdN7DAE4ChDoAQhAMAU#v=onepage&q=andhra%20kshatriya&f=false.

The below passage refers to Alluri Sita Rama Raju, a famous telugu revolutionary, as a Telugu Kshatriya. https://books.google.com/books?id=s8iGAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA432&dq=telugu+kshatriya&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiukcC0tu_ZAhUwwVkKHb3wBqUQ6AEIVDAI#v=onepage&q=telugu%20kshatriya&f=false

The below link is about the people of India written by a famous Anthropologist Kumar Suresh Singh. https://books.google.com/books?id=CBIwAQAAIAAJ&dq=telugu+kshatriya&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=raju

The below reference is by K RamachandraMurthy. https://books.google.com/books?id=LSeOAAAAMAAJ&dq=telugu+kshatriya&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=kshatriya+raju

The below link is about Dandu Narayana Raju, a famous Telugu Kshatriya and it states his caste as Telugu Kshatriya https://books.google.com/books?id=pMMBAAAAMAAJ&q=telugu+kshatriya&dq=telugu+kshatriya&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiL1KK_t-_ZAhWqrVkKHf0wC3g4HhDoAQhKMAc

This is once again about Alluri SitaramaRaju and states his caste as Telugu Kshatriya https://books.google.com/books?id=lRFDAAAAYAAJ&q=telugu+kshatriya&dq=telugu+kshatriya&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiL1KK_t-_ZAhWqrVkKHf0wC3g4HhDoAQhVMAk

This is from the Anthropological survey of India

https://books.google.com/books?id=P3LiAAAAMAAJ&q=kshatriya+raju&dq=kshatriya+raju&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjR_ObPuO_ZAhVOwlkKHezNB5gQ6AEIOzAE

This talks about the dialect of Kshatriyas(Rajus) https://books.google.com/books?id=WECni12L06sC&pg=PA236&dq=kshatriya+raju&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjR_ObPuO_ZAhVOwlkKHezNB5gQ6AEIUzAJ#v=onepage&q=kshatriya%20raju&f=false

The below link talks about Kshatriya Rajus of Tamil Nadu https://books.google.com/books?id=1lZuAAAAMAAJ&q=kshatriya+raju&dq=kshatriya+raju&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiG56-Jue_ZAhUHn-AKHSxjCi84ChDoAQgqMAE

This talks about Srikakulam district population and mentions PVG Raju, a famous Telugu Kshatriya https://books.google.com/books?id=KVKKAAAAMAAJ&q=kshatriya+raju&dq=kshatriya+raju&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiG56-Jue_ZAhUHn-AKHSxjCi84ChDoAQhAMAU

This is by the government of India https://books.google.com/books?id=2tAcAQAAMAAJ&q=kshatriya+raju&dq=kshatriya+raju&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjgl9_vue_ZAhXEs1kKHevUDvQ4FBDoAQhSMAk

The below is a famous court case between two royal kshatriya families of vatsavaya vs poosapati. The Bombay high court referred to them as Kshatriya communities https://indiankanoon.org/doc/18635/

This is by Andhra historical society. https://books.google.com/books?id=gVNdhHtG134C&dq=kshatriyas+gobburi&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=rajus

You can find countless other articles which attest the Kshatriya status of Rajus. When the Courts, Governments, Historians etc. accept their Kshatriya status and call them Kshatriyas, what is the problem with Misplaced Pages? Is this how wikipedia works? Just because some wiki admins hate some community, they paint it in a wrong way. If this is how wikipedia works, then you will be spreading misinformation. I don't think this is what wikipedia founders wanted. Please maintain some standards.2601:48:C501:B389:C15E:981A:891D:7B85 (talk) 23:32, 15 March 2018 (UTC)Telug History

When there are countless articles which talk about Kshatriyas and Vysyas of South, how can you blindly argue there are no Kshatriyas and Vysyas in South? Why don't you accept reality? Do you want to downplay the greatness of a community by publishing nonsense about them? If you believe that you are mistaken. This is the reason wikipedia is not considered an acceptable reference for academic research. It is just because of peoople like you2601:48:C501:B389:C15E:981A:891D:7B85 (talk) 23:37, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Edits this extensive require the consensus of interested editors to implement and are outside the bounds of a simple edit request. Please discuss your proposed changes and the sources that support them in a separate section of this talk page. Make sure you indicate exactly which existing text you believe needs to be changed and what the replacement text should be. This is in keeping with Arbitration Committee decisions on the Indian caste system such as Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Rajput and Indian topics in general such as Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/India-Pakistan. Be aware that standard discretionary sanctions apply to all article that can reasonable be considered to come under the latter decision. I hope this helps. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 16:41, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Remove Rajus claim Kshatriya Status. They are Kshatriyas and there is no need for any claim.

Rajus don't claim Kshatriya status. They are acknowledged as Kshatriyas by the Governments, Courts, Politicians and there are many inscriptions that attest to that fact. They mention their caste as Kshatriya when they apply to jobs and they are mentioned as kshatriya in caste census. There is no caste called Rajus officially. It is Kshatriyas officially. Proofs are posted below

1 https://books.google.com/books?dq=History+of+the+Reddi+Kingdoms+dantuluri&focus=searchwithinvolume&id=diYLAQAAIAAJ&q=Racavaru

There is no caste called Raju officially. It is called Kshatriyas. They write Kshatriya as their caste when they apply for jobs and also during election surveys. The governments and courts acknowledge them as Kshatriyas. See the below link

2 https://books.google.com/books?id=zG4JuQMA-a8C&pg=PA101&dq=andhra+kshatriya&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjimJOutO_ZAhWul-AKHdN7DAE4ChDoAQhAMAU#v=onepage&q=andhra%20kshatriya&f=false.

The below passage refers to Alluri Sita Rama Raju, a famous telugu revolutionary, as a Telugu Kshatriya.

3 https://books.google.com/books?id=s8iGAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA432&dq=telugu+kshatriya&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiukcC0tu_ZAhUwwVkKHb3wBqUQ6AEIVDAI#v=onepage&q=telugu%20kshatriya&f=false

The below link is about the people of India written by a famous Anthropologist Kumar Suresh Singh.

4 https://books.google.com/books?id=CBIwAQAAIAAJ&dq=telugu+kshatriya&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=raju

The below reference is by K RamachandraMurthy.

5 https://books.google.com/books?id=LSeOAAAAMAAJ&dq=telugu+kshatriya&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=kshatriya+raju

The below link is about Dandu Narayana Raju, a famous Telugu Kshatriya and it states his caste as Telugu Kshatriya

6 https://books.google.com/books?id=pMMBAAAAMAAJ&q=telugu+kshatriya&dq=telugu+kshatriya&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiL1KK_t-_ZAhWqrVkKHf0wC3g4HhDoAQhKMAc

This is once again about Alluri SitaramaRaju and states his caste as Telugu Kshatriya

7 https://books.google.com/books?id=lRFDAAAAYAAJ&q=telugu+kshatriya&dq=telugu+kshatriya&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiL1KK_t-_ZAhWqrVkKHf0wC3g4HhDoAQhVMAk

This is from the Anthropological survey of India

8 https://books.google.com/books?id=P3LiAAAAMAAJ&q=kshatriya+raju&dq=kshatriya+raju&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjR_ObPuO_ZAhVOwlkKHezNB5gQ6AEIOzAE

This talks about the dialect of Kshatriyas(Rajus)

9 https://books.google.com/books?id=WECni12L06sC&pg=PA236&dq=kshatriya+raju&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjR_ObPuO_ZAhVOwlkKHezNB5gQ6AEIUzAJ#v=onepage&q=kshatriya%20raju&f=false

The below link talks about Kshatriya Rajus of Tamil Nadu

10 https://books.google.com/books?id=1lZuAAAAMAAJ&q=kshatriya+raju&dq=kshatriya+raju&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiG56-Jue_ZAhUHn-AKHSxjCi84ChDoAQgqMAE

This talks about Srikakulam district population and mentions PVG Raju, a famous Telugu Kshatriya

11 https://books.google.com/books?id=KVKKAAAAMAAJ&q=kshatriya+raju&dq=kshatriya+raju&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiG56-Jue_ZAhUHn-AKHSxjCi84ChDoAQhAMAU

This is by the government of India

12 https://books.google.com/books?id=2tAcAQAAMAAJ&q=kshatriya+raju&dq=kshatriya+raju&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjgl9_vue_ZAhXEs1kKHevUDvQ4FBDoAQhSMAk

The below is a famous court case between two royal kshatriya families of vatsavaya vs poosapati. The Bombay high court referred to them as Kshatriya communities

13 https://indiankanoon.org/doc/18635/

This is by Andhra historical society.

14 https://books.google.com/books?id=gVNdhHtG134C&dq=kshatriyas+gobburi&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=rajus 2601:48:C501:B389:F0DE:D965:3891:E6C9 (talk) 15:29, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

• 1 is a snippet view. - Sitush (talk) 08:40, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 2 is visible to me but doesn't enlighten us because it just refers to kshatriya. - Sitush (talk) 08:40, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 3 involves synthesis. You are suggesting that because one person bears the last name Raju and the source says that person was a Telugu Kshatriya then all Rajus are Telugu Kshatriyas. Even if you are correct, the qualifier of Telugu may be significant - we do not usually see people referred to as, say, Rajasthani Kshatriya or Punjabi Kshatriya, so it suggests something that may be a bit out of the norm. - Sitush (talk) 08:43, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 4 is not reliable - it is the "states" series of The People of India, which has been deemed unsuitable at WP:RSN. Snippet view here. - Sitush (talk) 08:44, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 5 - snippet view here. - Sitush (talk) 08:47, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 6 is a snippet view here, a publisher I've not encountered before and has the same synthesis problem as #3. - Sitush (talk) 08:48, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 7 is a snippet view with the same synthesis problem as #3 - Sitush (talk) 08:49, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 8 is another from the "states" series - see #4 above. - Sitush (talk) 08:49, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 9 is fine for saying there is a community called the Kshatriya Rajus. It says nothing about varna. - Sitush (talk) 08:51, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 10 is the "national" series of The People of India, which is a reliable source but I can only see a snippet view. - Sitush (talk) 08:53, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 11 and 12 are snippets views here. - Sitush (talk) 09:52, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 13 - I cannot connect to this so perhaps the site is down at the moment (I have seen it before). It won't be of much use, though, because court rulings etc are considered to be primary sources and we do not have the legal expertise to interpret them, nor any certainty that the ruling was not overturned etc. - Sitush (talk) 15:02, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 14: this is a snippet view of stuff originating from 1925/26 - useless for our purposes even if it was full view. - Sitush (talk) 15:03, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Rajus are Telugu Kshatriyas

Rajus are accepted as Kshatriyas by a majority of historians, politicians and academics. The media and all news outlets refer to Rajus as Kshatriyas. There is no doubt regarding the Kshatriya status of Rajus and that part of this article needs to be edited.

The below link is a reference to Rajus from Subordinate Rulers In Medieval Deccan.

1 https://books.google.com/books?id=SUNuAAAAMAAJ&dq=kshatriya+rajus&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=rajus

There are plenty more sources which attest to the Kshatriya status of Rajus.Sharkslayer87 (talk) 20:43, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

As with the sources in the preceding section, the problem I have is that I can only (at best) see a snippet view of this. Furthermore, it is widely accepted by modern academics that there were really no kshatriya communities in south India. The four-fold varna system only really applied in northern India. - Sitush (talk) 20:57, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

It is not widely accepted by modern academics that there were really no Kshatriya communities in South India. In fact a majority of the Historians do agree that Kshatriya communities existed in South India. It is not true to say that four fold varna system doesn't exist in South. Please let me know what sources you need exactly so that I will try to provide them. I cannot provide you the complete books as that will lead to copyright infringement. Those snippet views should be good enough as they convey the meaning that Rajus are indeed Kshatriyas. If you feel they are not good enough, please let me know why they are not good enough. I have provided many academic sources by great historians which you are purposely ignoring. As I have already told before, they are recorded as Kshatriyas by the Indian government and they write their caste as Kshatriyas in all official documents. The politicians, governments, courts, academics, histrians etc. all record them as Kshatriyas. There is no claim involved here. There is inscriptional evidence also that someone posted above which you seem to be ignoring purposely.

The below source is more than a snippet view. It mentions the Kshatriya Pusapati family of Vizianagaram. It specifically refers to them as Kshatriyas. It also talks about two inscriptions that attest to this.

2 https://books.google.com/books?id=H74RAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA219&dq=kshatriyas+vizianagaram&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiK75LitvjZAhUMq1kKHfWyAqMQ6AEIVjAJ#v=onepage&q=591&f=false

It also talks about Kshatriya(Warrior) and Vysya(Trading Communities). Now don't pretend that this source doesn't exist.

3 https://books.google.com/books?id=H74RAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA219&dq=kshatriyas+vizianagaram&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiK75LitvjZAhUMq1kKHfWyAqMQ6AEIVjAJ#v=snippet&q=the%20kshatriyas%20or%20warrior%20caste&f=false Sharkslayer87 (talk) 12:26, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

I am adding more academic sources below

4 https://books.google.com/books?id=2BTtAAAAMAAJ&q=kshatriyas+bhimavaram&dq=kshatriyas+bhimavaram&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidv9_F7_jZAhUsVd8KHYURD94Q6AEILDAB

5 https://books.google.com/books?id=MNUB1Ei85X0C&q=kshatriyas+bhimavaram&dq=kshatriyas+bhimavaram&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidv9_F7_jZAhUsVd8KHYURD94Q6AEINzAE

The below is more than a snippet view

6 https://books.google.com/books?id=WJp_DAAAQBAJ&pg=PA117&dq=kshatriyas+bhimavaram&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidv9_F7_jZAhUsVd8KHYURD94Q6AEITDAI#v=onepage&q=kshatriyas%20bhimavaram&f=false

This is an answer to the false claim that academics believe that there are no Kshatriyas in south India

7 https://books.google.com/books?id=mitQBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA78&dq=kshatriyas+kakinada&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjp88f88PjZAhVwk-AKHfs0Bp84ChDoAQg4MAM#v=onepage&q=kshatriyas%20kakinada&f=false

8 https://books.google.com/books?id=YxuLAAAAMAAJ&q=kshatriyas+amalapuram&dq=kshatriyas+amalapuram&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjrs4my8fjZAhXvmOAKHZ6RA0sQ6AEINDAC

9 https://books.google.com/books?id=B0LVAAAAMAAJ&q=kshatriyas+amalapuram&dq=kshatriyas+amalapuram&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-k7LX8fjZAhUDc98KHVqxA1M4ChDoAQgoMAA

Below are newspape media links(Print Media)

10 http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-andhrapradesh/tdp-kshatriyas-stage-protest/article5057411.ece

11 http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/andhra-pradesh/its-a-fight-between-tdp-and-ysrc/article5863141.ece

The below is MLA caste list

12 https://srscreations.com/ap-mlas-caste-list-2014/

13 https://www.apherald.com/Politics/ViewArticle/42766/Rajampet-TDP-Ticket-goes-to-Kshatriya%E2%80%9D-Community-/

14 http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/andhra-pradesh/2017/feb/26/hectic-lobbying-on-in-tdp-for-mlc-seats-1574904.html

15 http://www.thehansindia.com/posts/index/Andhra-Pradesh/2018-02-21/Kshatriyas-elect-new-community-panel/360352

16 https://www.telugu360.com/rajya-sabha-nominations-caste-equations-part2/

17 http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/andhra-pradesh/caste-factor-holds-key-in-bhimavaram/article5879919.ece

18 https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/Kanumuri-Bapiraju-faces-uphill-task-in-Narsapuram/articleshow/33795850.cms

There are plenty more sources by both academicians and news media. I don't understand why some Misplaced Pages admins are trying to suppress facts.Sharkslayer87 (talk) 17:38, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

I'm sorry but I can't handle stuff when you throw so many links at it in this manner. Some of those sources are simply not reliable and you appear sometimes to be searching specifically for phrases that might support your point of view. I am going to bed but I will try to address what you have posted in a few hours time. Please do not add any more - if what you have already offered does not suffice then I think we will have gone far enough down this road. - Sitush (talk) 01:50, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

When the governments, courts, media, academics etc. agree to their status, who are you to decide? I just want to know how you can decide which caste is what? Forgive me if I sounded rude, but I am trying to understand wikipedia standards. Is this how they decide what has to be edited or not? And btw, when did I call names?Sharkslayer87 (talk) 02:35, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

It is 0241 here. I will look at it in a few hours. You may benefit from a read of the information at WP:RS in the interval. News stories, court documents and government documents are rarely suitable for this type of thing, and some other sources - for example, anything published by Gyan or the "states" series of The People of India - have been determined not to be reliable per community consensus at the Reliable Sources Noticeboard. It is not all about me. - Sitush (talk) 02:43, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Forgive me, but are all my sources Gyan or the "states" series of India? Why is it that government documents are not suitable? Can you post what you call a reliable source is so that I will try to find similar sources? Sharkslayer87 (talk) 02:52, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

I didn't say your list included those sources. I was just giving examples of our approach to determining which sources might be reliable and which might not. The reason why government sources are poor is because caste is such a politicised issue, in part but not entirely because of the effects of the reservation system. I am sure you are aware of how, for example, the politics of Uttar Pradesh, Kerala and Gujarat are particularly prone to caste-based politics and thus to political whims, just as school books are poor for history etc because they have been subject to manipulation such as the NCERT controversy.

I am going to work my way through your list but it will take some time to respond to every link you have offered. I have real-life work to do and I am going through one of my increasingly frequent periods of ill health. I would be grateful if you could hang off replying further here until I say that I've responded to them all. - Sitush (talk) 06:49, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Comments on sources offered so far in this section:

• 1 & 2 are both only available to me in snippet view and thus I cannot offer a useful comment. In addition, #2 appears to have been published in 1883 and that makes it inherently unreliable - we do not use British Raj era source for caste matters. Please note that Google Books shows different "views" in different parts of the world. - Sitush (talk) 06:52, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 3 appears to be the same source as #2, and the same issues apply. - Sitush (talk) 06:54, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 4 and 5 are also snippet views here and, perhaps worse, they are obscure publishers apparently dealing with issues related to agriculture, not history or anthropology. - Sitush (talk) 06:55, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 6 is fine but the page you link to does not support your claim. It says that the Rajus are considered to be the Kshatriyas. This is arguably the same as saying there is a claim that they are kshatriyas, for the reasons already stated in the article, ie: the varna system of south India doesn't really reflect that of north India. - Sitush (talk) 06:59, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 7 I can see this but need to read more of it and think a little. For starters, the publisher is Cambridge Scholars and they have had a mixed reception here, eg: in this thread, in the inference of this one and here. I will update this comment. - Sitush (talk) 07:11, 20 March 2018 (UTC) The author is an academic who specialises in the sociology of education and IT but this 2014 source has seemingly never been cited by anyone else and I can find no independent reviews (ie: there are blurbs on publisher websites etc but nothing more). Why he chose to use what amounts to little more than a vanity press is beyond me, and his lumping of supposed kshatriyas with shudras as "the middle castes" on the page you link to seems rather odd - shudras are usually considered to be of the fourth rank, after brahmin, kshatriya and vaishya, with only the outcastes below them. I am going to reserve judgement for now. - Sitush (talk) 07:26, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 8 and 9 are snippet views here, both are also from publishers I've never heard of and the latter is from 1937. Not likely to be good. - Sitush (talk) 07:28, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 10 just mentions Kshatriya Sangham. Even if it directly connected that to the Raju caste, it wouldn't add any weight to what is already said in this article. It is well known that caste associations adopt names to suit their putative status etc as part of the process identified as sanskritisation. We already say that the Rajus claim to be kshatriyas. - Sitush (talk) 07:54, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 11 doesn't say who the Kshatriyas are but lumps them with other identifiable castes, clearly treating them as a caste rather than as a varna. Any caste can choose to call themselves anything they wish. - Sitush (talk) 07:56, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 12 is not a reliable source and even says so itself - "We collected all this info from the web, so if there are any errors in List let us know." - Sitush (talk) 07:57, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 13 & 14 are just passing mentions of a community that calls itself Kshatriya. Again, it could be anyone and any group can make such a claim. - Sitush (talk) 08:00, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 15 Just another caste pressure group using the name Kshatriya. Whether they are Rajus or not (it does not say, as with the other news sources reviewed so far), anyone can do this and it is part of sanskritisation as noted above. - Sitush (talk) 08:12, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 16 & 17 are equally vague as the news sources above. However, 18 does specifically say "Rajus (Kshatriya)", which is ok for suggesting there is synonymity. - Sitush (talk) 08:38, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

I have now commented on all the proffered sources in this section and the preceding one. However, I'd like a little time to put together a few alternate sources that demonstrate the current phrasing before we go any further with conclusions/proposals. - Sitush (talk) 15:04, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

• This says "in south India where no true Kshatriyas were said to exist" but it is a Cambridge Scholars source (see my note above re: #7).
• this from SUNY Press seems to suggest the same
• this one, alas also from Cambridge Scholars, says the kshatriya term cannot be found in Andhra before medieval times, which is way after the Vedas. I seen a similar claim made by quite a few other sources. It does say that it is then associated with the Raju but, well, so what? We already mention that in the article.
• this says it is sometimes more of a socio-political thing than a religious one and notes the Kammas and Reddis using it in Andhra.
• I have a book that says "In South India, society is divided into three major sections: Brahmin, non-Brahmin, and the scheduled castes. The Reddys are in the Sudra varna from which came the large numbers of castes that form the middle grouping. Rivalry among the Sudra castes for precedence in ritual status often takes the form of claims to the Kshatriya varna" (Leonard, The Conflict of Two Nationalisms: A Study of the Formation of Andhra Pradesh, University of Wisconsin Press, p 43) but can only see snippet view here via Google Books. The point is, the south India society doesn't deal with kshatriya.
• The "national" series of The People of India (volume 5, p 1853) says there is "no kshatriya jati as such" but the Raju "claim" to be kshatriya.

I could go on but, as you can see, the idea already mentioned in the article that the Rajus claim kshatriya status even though the varna did not really exist per se in South India does in fact have a fair amount of academic support, as I mentioned a few days ago, - Sitush (talk) 16:51, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Here's another one. I think we need to find a way to emphasise what the article already says but also point out that the Rajus are indeed sometimes referred to as the Kshatriya, even though other communities in Andhra also make that claim (Reddis, Kapu etc). It is a fine line to tread. - Sitush (talk) 19:09, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

My two cents. "Raju" in today's Telugu means king. So it is supposed that the people that call themselves Rajus descended from kings, and therefore they are by convention Kshatriyas. It doesn't matter much whether there was any varna system in South India historically or not. As long as people accept that they are Kshatriyas, that is all there is to it. The OP's sources do imply that it is widely accepted. So, I think we should say something like "it is generally accepted that Rajus have Kshatriya status" and give a bunch of references (including scholarly sources and news sources). This could go somewhere at the bottom of the current section. Unless there is some solid study of the origins of this belief, I don't think there is any need to go into any detail.

I don't agree with the OP's claim that Rajus are Kshatriyas. Nobody is anything. It is all a matter of social conventions. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:52, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Well, if we go down that route and have the sources to support it then we still need to make it clear that it has nothing to do with the varna status. Those who know anything about the Indian caste system are going to assume that the word kshatriya used in this article means Kshatriya in the varna sense, not simply as kings. And since kings could be shudra, brahmin and (quite probably) vaishya, it just creates more confusion. - Sitush (talk) 22:21, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

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Sources on the Kshatriya-claim are examind at User:Joshua Jonathan/Raju (Kshatriya) sources

Raju Suryavamshi and Chandravamshi Kshatriya

HI ,

I have provided many proof previously in raju wiki talk for Raju/Varma suryavaamshi and chandravamshi kshatriya.

But someone wantedly deleting the talk page.

But below is the classification of raju

proofs for raju suryavamshi - India Archaeological reports from temples

• (Proof1)

No. 45. (A.R. No. 491 of 1906.) Pulivendla, Pulivendla Taluk, Cuddapah District. On a slab set up at the entrance of the Ranganathasvamin temple. Krishnaraya, AD 1509. This is dated Saka 1431, Sukla, Kartika su. 12, corresponding to AD 1509, October 24, which was, Wednesday. It records a gift of the village Kunddal Kundu to the god Sri Ranga Raju of Pulivindla by Narasayya Deva Maharaju, brother of Basava Raju, son of Tamma Raju, grandson of Valla Bharaya and great-grandson of Bejawada Madhava Varma of Vasishtha-gotra and Surya-vamsa. The gift village is said to be situated in Pulivindalasthala, a subdivision of Mulkinadu in Gandhi Kotasima of Udayagiri Rajya.

• (Proof2)

No. 201. (A.R. No. 161 of 1905.) Markapur, Markapur Taluk, Kurnool District. On the east wall, left of entrance, of the antarala-mandapa in the Chenna-kesava-svamin temple. Sadasiva, AD 1555. This is dated Saka 1476, Ananda, Magha su. 7, corresponding to AD 1555, 29 January.

It records a gift of the various toll incomes due from the 18 villages, viz., Marakarapuram, Channavaram, Konddapuram, Yachavaram, Rayavaram, Gonguladinna, Tarnumbadu, Surepalli, Vanalapuram, Chanareddipalle, Gangireddipalle, Korevanipalle, Medisettipalle, Gollapalle, Jammuladinna, Tellambadu, Kamalpuram and Kondapalli to god Chennakesava by Maha Mandalesvara Madiraju Narappadeva Maharaju, son of Aubhalayya Deva Maharaju, grandson of Maha Mandalesvara Madiraju Singa Raju Deva Maharaju, of Kasyapa-gotra and Surya-vamsa, and nephew of Maha Mandalesvara Rama Raju Thirumalaraju. The gift villages are said to be situated in Kochcherla Kotasima which was held by the donor as Nayankara from the king. Records in addition that the lanjasunkham (levy on prostitutes) collected during the festivals at Marakapuram was also made over to the temple and that fie out of every six dishes of offerings to the deity, were to be made over to the satra (feeding house) for feeding paradesi Brahmanas of the smartha sect, the sixth dish being the share of the sthanikas, the adhikaris and the karanas.

• (Proof3)

No. 205. (A.R. No. 59 of 1915.) Chinna Ahobalam, Sirvel Taluk, Kurnool District. On the west wall of the Narasimha-svamin shrine in the Narasimha-svamin temple. Sadasiva, AD 1555. This is dated Saka 1478 (current), Rakshasa, Sravana ba. 7 corresponding to 9 August 1555,(Friday). The record is damaged and fragmentary. It seems to register a gift (of land) to god Ahobala Narasimha by Ganapatiraju who belonged to the Kasyapa-gotra Apastamba-sutra and Yajus-sakha and was the son of Nandi Raju and the grandson of Maha Mandalesvara Krishna Raju of the solar race.

• (Proof4)

No. 235. (A.R. No. 79 of 1915.) Pedda Ahobalam, Sirvel Taluk, Kurnool District. On a slab set up near the sixteen-pillared mandapa on the way to upper Ahobalam. Sadasiva, AD 1558. This is dated Saka 14, Kalayukt, Margasirsha su. 3, corresponding to 13 November 1558, (Sunday). It records the grant of a piece of land and some money by Emberumanar-Jiyyamgaru, the mudrakarta of Vam Sathagopa-Jiyyamgaru and others for conducting certain festivals when god Ahobalesvara was seated in the 16 pillared mandapa constructed by Maha-mandalesvara Kurucheti Timmaraju, son of Vobul Raju and grandson of Baichana Deva Chodaraju of the solar race, when the god was taken (in procession) to Diguva Tirupati and back to the temple (nagaru)

• (Proof5)

No. 240. (A.R. No. 311 of 1922.) Vyapulapalle, Hamlet of Mudivedu, Madanapalle Taluk, Chittoor District. On a rock in the village. Sadasiva, AD 1559. This is dated Saka 1481, Siddharthin, Sravana ba. 12 Friday corresponding to 31 July 1559. The weekday, however, was Monday. It registers a gift of wet and dry lands to god Lakshmi Narasimha at Ramagiridurga by Jillela Vengalayya-Deva-Maharaju, son of Krishnam Raju and grandson of Peda Krishnam Raju of Kasyapa-gotra, Apastamba-sutra and Yajus-sakha. The gift lands are stated to be situated in Vempalapalli in the village of Mudivada in Vailipatisima belonging to Rama-giri-durga of Penugonda Marjavada which the donor is said to have obtained as amara from Rama Raju Tirumalaraju Deva Maharaju.

• (Proof6)

No. 251. (A.R. No. 15 of 1904.) Hampi, Hospet Taluk, Bellary District. On the north wall of the mandapa in front of the deserted shrine to the west of the Vitthalasvamin temple. Sadasiva, 1561 AD. This is dated Saka 1483, Raudri (current), Phalguna, the other details being lost. It registers an agreement (kaulu) granted by Kurucheti Sri Ranga Raju, son of Obulraju of the solar race and Kasyapa-gotra to a person (name lost) for his having level-led and brought under cultivation a specified piece of land stipulating an annual payment of one ghatti varaha by him into the treasury of god Vitthalesvara and a fourth share of the produce to the donor. The details pertaining to the rest of the produce are lost. Refers to a gift of garden land made to (the shrine of) Tirumangai-Alvar on the occasion of Prathama-ekadasi.

:Sitush please answer about these valuable proof.

• Proof of what? Please cite these report more fully and, better yet, cite something a bit more secondary than dig reports. Also, I'll ping Sitush for you: you need to sign if you want to ping. Drmies (talk) 19:51, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Rajapalayam and Tanjore Kshatriya Raju.

Large number of Telugu speaking kshatriya raju present in Rajapalayam who migrated during vijaynagara in deep South of Tamil and few population around Tanjore and trichy region who belong to Chalukya Cholas, when emperor Rajendra Chalukya alais Kulottunga Chola crowned as chola king 1070 AD. Pusapati Kumaraswamy Raju , first CM of Madras presidency after independence , Late Ramasubramanya Raju , former chair man Ramco groups belongs to Rajapalayam. Truth 4321 (talk) 07:18, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Please see WP:V. If people keep making these unsubstantiated claims on the talk page I will remove them because they're just noise. - Sitush (talk) 11:56, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Sitush, I am impressed that you could make sense of that. Drmies (talk) 18:39, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

One thing I have discovered over my years here is that if someone is editing a caste article and they have truth as part of their username, it doesn't end well. Perhaps this time will be an exception. I point all readers in the direction of WP:VNT. - Sitush (talk) 21:41, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

I have provided enough proof that presence of kshatriya raju in Rajapalayam and around Tanjore region.you can easily refer those proof by visiting government sites (poosapati Kumaraswamy Raju was cm of Madras presidency after independence) and Ramco industries site. even though you are not accepting means, you are having vengeance in Andra Kshatriya and not at all listening proof and trying to show they are not Kshatriya. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Truth 4321 (talk • contribs) 13:55, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

This article is a piece of shit. The Rajus are accepted as Kshatriyas by the Indian Government and many historians. I fail to understand why these mofos want to show them in a negative way. I assume these bxxxx do this out of pure jealousy.

Semi-protected edit request on 13 March 2018

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

2601:48:C501:B389:7CE4:EC42:AB32:C534 (talk) 02:51, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

The above article about Rajus is completely false. They are regarded as Kshatriyas by the governments and high courts and we have proofs that they have been Kshatriyas since at least the medieval times. Most of the Historians agree to these claims.

The below is a proof. https://books.google.com/books?dq=History+of+the+Reddi+Kingdoms+dantuluri&focus=searchwithinvolume&id=diYLAQAAIAAJ&q=Racavaru

Please don't use wikipedia to spread misinformation.

 Not done: By claiming the article's subject is a member of a certain caste, the claim attempts to assign a WP:RANK to the article's subject. The threshold for mentioning something in an article is not whether the subject is a member of a certain caste. Likewise, not being a member of this caste would not make something unmentionable. These caste descriptions are about having published, non-trivial information (i.e., more than a mere mention) in multiple sources independent of the subject. The particular reference provided in this request is good, but if the claim is ever to be mentioned, more references ought to be found. Spintendo      07:50, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

There is no caste called Raju officially. It is called Kshatriyas. They write Kshatriya as their caste when they apply for jobs and also during election surveys. The governments and courts acknowledge them as Kshatriyas. See the below link https://books.google.com/books?id=zG4JuQMA-a8C&pg=PA101&dq=andhra+kshatriya&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjimJOutO_ZAhWul-AKHdN7DAE4ChDoAQhAMAU#v=onepage&q=andhra%20kshatriya&f=false.

The below passage refers to Alluri Sita Rama Raju, a famous telugu revolutionary, as a Telugu Kshatriya. https://books.google.com/books?id=s8iGAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA432&dq=telugu+kshatriya&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiukcC0tu_ZAhUwwVkKHb3wBqUQ6AEIVDAI#v=onepage&q=telugu%20kshatriya&f=false

The below link is about the people of India written by a famous Anthropologist Kumar Suresh Singh. https://books.google.com/books?id=CBIwAQAAIAAJ&dq=telugu+kshatriya&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=raju

The below reference is by K RamachandraMurthy. https://books.google.com/books?id=LSeOAAAAMAAJ&dq=telugu+kshatriya&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=kshatriya+raju

The below link is about Dandu Narayana Raju, a famous Telugu Kshatriya and it states his caste as Telugu Kshatriya https://books.google.com/books?id=pMMBAAAAMAAJ&q=telugu+kshatriya&dq=telugu+kshatriya&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiL1KK_t-_ZAhWqrVkKHf0wC3g4HhDoAQhKMAc

This is once again about Alluri SitaramaRaju and states his caste as Telugu Kshatriya https://books.google.com/books?id=lRFDAAAAYAAJ&q=telugu+kshatriya&dq=telugu+kshatriya&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiL1KK_t-_ZAhWqrVkKHf0wC3g4HhDoAQhVMAk

This is from the Anthropological survey of India

https://books.google.com/books?id=P3LiAAAAMAAJ&q=kshatriya+raju&dq=kshatriya+raju&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjR_ObPuO_ZAhVOwlkKHezNB5gQ6AEIOzAE

This talks about the dialect of Kshatriyas(Rajus) https://books.google.com/books?id=WECni12L06sC&pg=PA236&dq=kshatriya+raju&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjR_ObPuO_ZAhVOwlkKHezNB5gQ6AEIUzAJ#v=onepage&q=kshatriya%20raju&f=false

The below link talks about Kshatriya Rajus of Tamil Nadu https://books.google.com/books?id=1lZuAAAAMAAJ&q=kshatriya+raju&dq=kshatriya+raju&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiG56-Jue_ZAhUHn-AKHSxjCi84ChDoAQgqMAE

This talks about Srikakulam district population and mentions PVG Raju, a famous Telugu Kshatriya https://books.google.com/books?id=KVKKAAAAMAAJ&q=kshatriya+raju&dq=kshatriya+raju&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiG56-Jue_ZAhUHn-AKHSxjCi84ChDoAQhAMAU

This is by the government of India https://books.google.com/books?id=2tAcAQAAMAAJ&q=kshatriya+raju&dq=kshatriya+raju&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjgl9_vue_ZAhXEs1kKHevUDvQ4FBDoAQhSMAk

The below is a famous court case between two royal kshatriya families of vatsavaya vs poosapati. The Bombay high court referred to them as Kshatriya communities https://indiankanoon.org/doc/18635/

This is by Andhra historical society. https://books.google.com/books?id=gVNdhHtG134C&dq=kshatriyas+gobburi&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=rajus

You can find countless other articles which attest the Kshatriya status of Rajus. When the Courts, Governments, Historians etc. accept their Kshatriya status and call them Kshatriyas, what is the problem with Misplaced Pages? Is this how wikipedia works? Just because some wiki admins hate some community, they paint it in a wrong way. If this is how wikipedia works, then you will be spreading misinformation. I don't think this is what wikipedia founders wanted. Please maintain some standards.2601:48:C501:B389:C15E:981A:891D:7B85 (talk) 23:32, 15 March 2018 (UTC)Telug History

When there are countless articles which talk about Kshatriyas and Vysyas of South, how can you blindly argue there are no Kshatriyas and Vysyas in South? Why don't you accept reality? Do you want to downplay the greatness of a community by publishing nonsense about them? If you believe that you are mistaken. This is the reason wikipedia is not considered an acceptable reference for academic research. It is just because of peoople like you2601:48:C501:B389:C15E:981A:891D:7B85 (talk) 23:37, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Edits this extensive require the consensus of interested editors to implement and are outside the bounds of a simple edit request. Please discuss your proposed changes and the sources that support them in a separate section of this talk page. Make sure you indicate exactly which existing text you believe needs to be changed and what the replacement text should be. This is in keeping with Arbitration Committee decisions on the Indian caste system such as Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Rajput and Indian topics in general such as Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/India-Pakistan. Be aware that standard discretionary sanctions apply to all article that can reasonable be considered to come under the latter decision. I hope this helps. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 16:41, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

Remove Rajus claim Kshatriya Status. They are Kshatriyas and there is no need for any claim.

Rajus don't claim Kshatriya status. They are acknowledged as Kshatriyas by the Governments, Courts, Politicians and there are many inscriptions that attest to that fact. They mention their caste as Kshatriya when they apply to jobs and they are mentioned as kshatriya in caste census. There is no caste called Rajus officially. It is Kshatriyas officially. Proofs are posted below

1 https://books.google.com/books?dq=History+of+the+Reddi+Kingdoms+dantuluri&focus=searchwithinvolume&id=diYLAQAAIAAJ&q=Racavaru

There is no caste called Raju officially. It is called Kshatriyas. They write Kshatriya as their caste when they apply for jobs and also during election surveys. The governments and courts acknowledge them as Kshatriyas. See the below link

2 https://books.google.com/books?id=zG4JuQMA-a8C&pg=PA101&dq=andhra+kshatriya&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjimJOutO_ZAhWul-AKHdN7DAE4ChDoAQhAMAU#v=onepage&q=andhra%20kshatriya&f=false.

The below passage refers to Alluri Sita Rama Raju, a famous telugu revolutionary, as a Telugu Kshatriya.

3 https://books.google.com/books?id=s8iGAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA432&dq=telugu+kshatriya&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiukcC0tu_ZAhUwwVkKHb3wBqUQ6AEIVDAI#v=onepage&q=telugu%20kshatriya&f=false

The below link is about the people of India written by a famous Anthropologist Kumar Suresh Singh.

4 https://books.google.com/books?id=CBIwAQAAIAAJ&dq=telugu+kshatriya&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=raju

The below reference is by K RamachandraMurthy.

5 https://books.google.com/books?id=LSeOAAAAMAAJ&dq=telugu+kshatriya&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=kshatriya+raju

The below link is about Dandu Narayana Raju, a famous Telugu Kshatriya and it states his caste as Telugu Kshatriya

6 https://books.google.com/books?id=pMMBAAAAMAAJ&q=telugu+kshatriya&dq=telugu+kshatriya&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiL1KK_t-_ZAhWqrVkKHf0wC3g4HhDoAQhKMAc

This is once again about Alluri SitaramaRaju and states his caste as Telugu Kshatriya

7 https://books.google.com/books?id=lRFDAAAAYAAJ&q=telugu+kshatriya&dq=telugu+kshatriya&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiL1KK_t-_ZAhWqrVkKHf0wC3g4HhDoAQhVMAk

This is from the Anthropological survey of India

8 https://books.google.com/books?id=P3LiAAAAMAAJ&q=kshatriya+raju&dq=kshatriya+raju&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjR_ObPuO_ZAhVOwlkKHezNB5gQ6AEIOzAE

This talks about the dialect of Kshatriyas(Rajus)

9 https://books.google.com/books?id=WECni12L06sC&pg=PA236&dq=kshatriya+raju&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjR_ObPuO_ZAhVOwlkKHezNB5gQ6AEIUzAJ#v=onepage&q=kshatriya%20raju&f=false

The below link talks about Kshatriya Rajus of Tamil Nadu

10 https://books.google.com/books?id=1lZuAAAAMAAJ&q=kshatriya+raju&dq=kshatriya+raju&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiG56-Jue_ZAhUHn-AKHSxjCi84ChDoAQgqMAE

This talks about Srikakulam district population and mentions PVG Raju, a famous Telugu Kshatriya

11 https://books.google.com/books?id=KVKKAAAAMAAJ&q=kshatriya+raju&dq=kshatriya+raju&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiG56-Jue_ZAhUHn-AKHSxjCi84ChDoAQhAMAU

This is by the government of India

12 https://books.google.com/books?id=2tAcAQAAMAAJ&q=kshatriya+raju&dq=kshatriya+raju&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjgl9_vue_ZAhXEs1kKHevUDvQ4FBDoAQhSMAk

The below is a famous court case between two royal kshatriya families of vatsavaya vs poosapati. The Bombay high court referred to them as Kshatriya communities

13 https://indiankanoon.org/doc/18635/

This is by Andhra historical society.

14 https://books.google.com/books?id=gVNdhHtG134C&dq=kshatriyas+gobburi&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=rajus 2601:48:C501:B389:F0DE:D965:3891:E6C9 (talk) 15:29, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

• 1 is a snippet view. - Sitush (talk) 08:40, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 2 is visible to me but doesn't enlighten us because it just refers to kshatriya. - Sitush (talk) 08:40, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 3 involves synthesis. You are suggesting that because one person bears the last name Raju and the source says that person was a Telugu Kshatriya then all Rajus are Telugu Kshatriyas. Even if you are correct, the qualifier of Telugu may be significant - we do not usually see people referred to as, say, Rajasthani Kshatriya or Punjabi Kshatriya, so it suggests something that may be a bit out of the norm. - Sitush (talk) 08:43, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 4 is not reliable - it is the "states" series of The People of India, which has been deemed unsuitable at WP:RSN. Snippet view here. - Sitush (talk) 08:44, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 5 - snippet view here. - Sitush (talk) 08:47, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 6 is a snippet view here, a publisher I've not encountered before and has the same synthesis problem as #3. - Sitush (talk) 08:48, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 7 is a snippet view with the same synthesis problem as #3 - Sitush (talk) 08:49, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 8 is another from the "states" series - see #4 above. - Sitush (talk) 08:49, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 9 is fine for saying there is a community called the Kshatriya Rajus. It says nothing about varna. - Sitush (talk) 08:51, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 10 is the "national" series of The People of India, which is a reliable source but I can only see a snippet view. - Sitush (talk) 08:53, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 11 and 12 are snippets views here. - Sitush (talk) 09:52, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 13 - I cannot connect to this so perhaps the site is down at the moment (I have seen it before). It won't be of much use, though, because court rulings etc are considered to be primary sources and we do not have the legal expertise to interpret them, nor any certainty that the ruling was not overturned etc. - Sitush (talk) 15:02, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 14: this is a snippet view of stuff originating from 1925/26 - useless for our purposes even if it was full view. - Sitush (talk) 15:03, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Rajus are Telugu Kshatriyas

Rajus are accepted as Kshatriyas by a majority of historians, politicians and academics. The media and all news outlets refer to Rajus as Kshatriyas. There is no doubt regarding the Kshatriya status of Rajus and that part of this article needs to be edited.

The below link is a reference to Rajus from Subordinate Rulers In Medieval Deccan.

1 https://books.google.com/books?id=SUNuAAAAMAAJ&dq=kshatriya+rajus&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=rajus

There are plenty more sources which attest to the Kshatriya status of Rajus.Sharkslayer87 (talk) 20:43, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

As with the sources in the preceding section, the problem I have is that I can only (at best) see a snippet view of this. Furthermore, it is widely accepted by modern academics that there were really no kshatriya communities in south India. The four-fold varna system only really applied in northern India. - Sitush (talk) 20:57, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

It is not widely accepted by modern academics that there were really no Kshatriya communities in South India. In fact a majority of the Historians do agree that Kshatriya communities existed in South India. It is not true to say that four fold varna system doesn't exist in South. Please let me know what sources you need exactly so that I will try to provide them. I cannot provide you the complete books as that will lead to copyright infringement. Those snippet views should be good enough as they convey the meaning that Rajus are indeed Kshatriyas. If you feel they are not good enough, please let me know why they are not good enough. I have provided many academic sources by great historians which you are purposely ignoring. As I have already told before, they are recorded as Kshatriyas by the Indian government and they write their caste as Kshatriyas in all official documents. The politicians, governments, courts, academics, histrians etc. all record them as Kshatriyas. There is no claim involved here. There is inscriptional evidence also that someone posted above which you seem to be ignoring purposely.

The below source is more than a snippet view. It mentions the Kshatriya Pusapati family of Vizianagaram. It specifically refers to them as Kshatriyas. It also talks about two inscriptions that attest to this.

2 https://books.google.com/books?id=H74RAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA219&dq=kshatriyas+vizianagaram&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiK75LitvjZAhUMq1kKHfWyAqMQ6AEIVjAJ#v=onepage&q=591&f=false

It also talks about Kshatriya(Warrior) and Vysya(Trading Communities). Now don't pretend that this source doesn't exist.

3 https://books.google.com/books?id=H74RAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA219&dq=kshatriyas+vizianagaram&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiK75LitvjZAhUMq1kKHfWyAqMQ6AEIVjAJ#v=snippet&q=the%20kshatriyas%20or%20warrior%20caste&f=false Sharkslayer87 (talk) 12:26, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

I am adding more academic sources below

4 https://books.google.com/books?id=2BTtAAAAMAAJ&q=kshatriyas+bhimavaram&dq=kshatriyas+bhimavaram&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidv9_F7_jZAhUsVd8KHYURD94Q6AEILDAB

5 https://books.google.com/books?id=MNUB1Ei85X0C&q=kshatriyas+bhimavaram&dq=kshatriyas+bhimavaram&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidv9_F7_jZAhUsVd8KHYURD94Q6AEINzAE

The below is more than a snippet view

6 https://books.google.com/books?id=WJp_DAAAQBAJ&pg=PA117&dq=kshatriyas+bhimavaram&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidv9_F7_jZAhUsVd8KHYURD94Q6AEITDAI#v=onepage&q=kshatriyas%20bhimavaram&f=false

This is an answer to the false claim that academics believe that there are no Kshatriyas in south India

7 https://books.google.com/books?id=mitQBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA78&dq=kshatriyas+kakinada&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjp88f88PjZAhVwk-AKHfs0Bp84ChDoAQg4MAM#v=onepage&q=kshatriyas%20kakinada&f=false

8 https://books.google.com/books?id=YxuLAAAAMAAJ&q=kshatriyas+amalapuram&dq=kshatriyas+amalapuram&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjrs4my8fjZAhXvmOAKHZ6RA0sQ6AEINDAC

9 https://books.google.com/books?id=B0LVAAAAMAAJ&q=kshatriyas+amalapuram&dq=kshatriyas+amalapuram&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-k7LX8fjZAhUDc98KHVqxA1M4ChDoAQgoMAA

Below are newspape media links(Print Media)

10 http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-andhrapradesh/tdp-kshatriyas-stage-protest/article5057411.ece

11 http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/andhra-pradesh/its-a-fight-between-tdp-and-ysrc/article5863141.ece

The below is MLA caste list

12 https://srscreations.com/ap-mlas-caste-list-2014/

13 https://www.apherald.com/Politics/ViewArticle/42766/Rajampet-TDP-Ticket-goes-to-Kshatriya%E2%80%9D-Community-/

14 http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/andhra-pradesh/2017/feb/26/hectic-lobbying-on-in-tdp-for-mlc-seats-1574904.html

15 http://www.thehansindia.com/posts/index/Andhra-Pradesh/2018-02-21/Kshatriyas-elect-new-community-panel/360352

16 https://www.telugu360.com/rajya-sabha-nominations-caste-equations-part2/

17 http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/andhra-pradesh/caste-factor-holds-key-in-bhimavaram/article5879919.ece

18 https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/Kanumuri-Bapiraju-faces-uphill-task-in-Narsapuram/articleshow/33795850.cms

There are plenty more sources by both academicians and news media. I don't understand why some Misplaced Pages admins are trying to suppress facts.Sharkslayer87 (talk) 17:38, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

I'm sorry but I can't handle stuff when you throw so many links at it in this manner. Some of those sources are simply not reliable and you appear sometimes to be searching specifically for phrases that might support your point of view. I am going to bed but I will try to address what you have posted in a few hours time. Please do not add any more - if what you have already offered does not suffice then I think we will have gone far enough down this road. - Sitush (talk) 01:50, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

When the governments, courts, media, academics etc. agree to their status, who are you to decide? I just want to know how you can decide which caste is what? Forgive me if I sounded rude, but I am trying to understand wikipedia standards. Is this how they decide what has to be edited or not? And btw, when did I call names?Sharkslayer87 (talk) 02:35, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

It is 0241 here. I will look at it in a few hours. You may benefit from a read of the information at WP:RS in the interval. News stories, court documents and government documents are rarely suitable for this type of thing, and some other sources - for example, anything published by Gyan or the "states" series of The People of India - have been determined not to be reliable per community consensus at the Reliable Sources Noticeboard. It is not all about me. - Sitush (talk) 02:43, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Forgive me, but are all my sources Gyan or the "states" series of India? Why is it that government documents are not suitable? Can you post what you call a reliable source is so that I will try to find similar sources? Sharkslayer87 (talk) 02:52, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

I didn't say your list included those sources. I was just giving examples of our approach to determining which sources might be reliable and which might not. The reason why government sources are poor is because caste is such a politicised issue, in part but not entirely because of the effects of the reservation system. I am sure you are aware of how, for example, the politics of Uttar Pradesh, Kerala and Gujarat are particularly prone to caste-based politics and thus to political whims, just as school books are poor for history etc because they have been subject to manipulation such as the NCERT controversy.

I am going to work my way through your list but it will take some time to respond to every link you have offered. I have real-life work to do and I am going through one of my increasingly frequent periods of ill health. I would be grateful if you could hang off replying further here until I say that I've responded to them all. - Sitush (talk) 06:49, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Comments on sources offered so far in this section:

• 1 & 2 are both only available to me in snippet view and thus I cannot offer a useful comment. In addition, #2 appears to have been published in 1883 and that makes it inherently unreliable - we do not use British Raj era source for caste matters. Please note that Google Books shows different "views" in different parts of the world. - Sitush (talk) 06:52, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 3 appears to be the same source as #2, and the same issues apply. - Sitush (talk) 06:54, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 4 and 5 are also snippet views here and, perhaps worse, they are obscure publishers apparently dealing with issues related to agriculture, not history or anthropology. - Sitush (talk) 06:55, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 6 is fine but the page you link to does not support your claim. It says that the Rajus are considered to be the Kshatriyas. This is arguably the same as saying there is a claim that they are kshatriyas, for the reasons already stated in the article, ie: the varna system of south India doesn't really reflect that of north India. - Sitush (talk) 06:59, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 7 I can see this but need to read more of it and think a little. For starters, the publisher is Cambridge Scholars and they have had a mixed reception here, eg: in this thread, in the inference of this one and here. I will update this comment. - Sitush (talk) 07:11, 20 March 2018 (UTC) The author is an academic who specialises in the sociology of education and IT but this 2014 source has seemingly never been cited by anyone else and I can find no independent reviews (ie: there are blurbs on publisher websites etc but nothing more). Why he chose to use what amounts to little more than a vanity press is beyond me, and his lumping of supposed kshatriyas with shudras as "the middle castes" on the page you link to seems rather odd - shudras are usually considered to be of the fourth rank, after brahmin, kshatriya and vaishya, with only the outcastes below them. I am going to reserve judgement for now. - Sitush (talk) 07:26, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 8 and 9 are snippet views here, both are also from publishers I've never heard of and the latter is from 1937. Not likely to be good. - Sitush (talk) 07:28, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 10 just mentions Kshatriya Sangham. Even if it directly connected that to the Raju caste, it wouldn't add any weight to what is already said in this article. It is well known that caste associations adopt names to suit their putative status etc as part of the process identified as sanskritisation. We already say that the Rajus claim to be kshatriyas. - Sitush (talk) 07:54, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 11 doesn't say who the Kshatriyas are but lumps them with other identifiable castes, clearly treating them as a caste rather than as a varna. Any caste can choose to call themselves anything they wish. - Sitush (talk) 07:56, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 12 is not a reliable source and even says so itself - "We collected all this info from the web, so if there are any errors in List let us know." - Sitush (talk) 07:57, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 13 & 14 are just passing mentions of a community that calls itself Kshatriya. Again, it could be anyone and any group can make such a claim. - Sitush (talk) 08:00, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 15 Just another caste pressure group using the name Kshatriya. Whether they are Rajus or not (it does not say, as with the other news sources reviewed so far), anyone can do this and it is part of sanskritisation as noted above. - Sitush (talk) 08:12, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
• 16 & 17 are equally vague as the news sources above. However, 18 does specifically say "Rajus (Kshatriya)", which is ok for suggesting there is synonymity. - Sitush (talk) 08:38, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

I have now commented on all the proffered sources in this section and the preceding one. However, I'd like a little time to put together a few alternate sources that demonstrate the current phrasing before we go any further with conclusions/proposals. - Sitush (talk) 15:04, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

• This says "in south India where no true Kshatriyas were said to exist" but it is a Cambridge Scholars source (see my note above re: #7).
• this from SUNY Press seems to suggest the same
• this one, alas also from Cambridge Scholars, says the kshatriya term cannot be found in Andhra before medieval times, which is way after the Vedas. I seen a similar claim made by quite a few other sources. It does say that it is then associated with the Raju but, well, so what? We already mention that in the article.
• this says it is sometimes more of a socio-political thing than a religious one and notes the Kammas and Reddis using it in Andhra.
• I have a book that says "In South India, society is divided into three major sections: Brahmin, non-Brahmin, and the scheduled castes. The Reddys are in the Sudra varna from which came the large numbers of castes that form the middle grouping. Rivalry among the Sudra castes for precedence in ritual status often takes the form of claims to the Kshatriya varna" (Leonard, The Conflict of Two Nationalisms: A Study of the Formation of Andhra Pradesh, University of Wisconsin Press, p 43) but can only see snippet view here via Google Books. The point is, the south India society doesn't deal with kshatriya.
• The "national" series of The People of India (volume 5, p 1853) says there is "no kshatriya jati as such" but the Raju "claim" to be kshatriya.

I could go on but, as you can see, the idea already mentioned in the article that the Rajus claim kshatriya status even though the varna did not really exist per se in South India does in fact have a fair amount of academic support, as I mentioned a few days ago, - Sitush (talk) 16:51, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Here's another one. I think we need to find a way to emphasise what the article already says but also point out that the Rajus are indeed sometimes referred to as the Kshatriya, even though other communities in Andhra also make that claim (Reddis, Kapu etc). It is a fine line to tread. - Sitush (talk) 19:09, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Mr.Sitush I appreciate you put into reading my references but I couldn't disagree with you more with your conclusions.

You discarded sources 1,2,3,4 & 5 saying that they were snippet views. You are wrong sir. Source 3 is more than a snippet view. But again you said you don't consider old sources. I agree with your objection. But you have to admit that all these snippet views convey the information that Rajus are Kshatriyas. If you don't agree to this, then you are being dishonest. Don't take this as a personal attack. Source 1 says Rachavaru or Rajus were the descendants of four major Kshatriya houses .....

Source 2 and 3 are old and I don't want to quote them as I respect wiki standards.

Source 5 says 'The predominant caste is Raju or Kshatriyas'

Source 6 says 'Rajus are considered to be the Kshatriyas'. Your response was 'This is arguably the same as saying there is a claim that they are kshatriyas'. You are wrong here Sir. Based on your responses so far I can say that you have a good grasp over English language(definitely much more than I do). Your response make me wonder if you are willfully dishonest here. Let me explain why you are wrong with an example. If a person 'X' is considered to be a King, it means the people around that person 'X' believe he is a King. On the contrast, if a person 'X' claims he is a King, it means he thinks he is a King and the people around him need not feel the same about him. There is a lot of difference between these two statements. If Rajus are considered to be Kshatriyas, it means there is a general acceptance in the society they live in, that they are Kshatriyas. It doesn't mean they claim they are Kshatriyas without others' acceptance. Have the courtesy to accept truth. Moreover this title has a good rating of 3.8 out of 5.

Source 7 says about Kshatriyas and Shudra castes like Kamma, Kapu and Reddy. He lumps them here because politically Kamma, Kapu and Reddy(though Shudra castes) are more powerful than Kshatriyas in Andhra Pradesh as they are numerically much superior. He is not talking about castes here in the Vedic context(Brahmin followed by Kshatriya followed by Vysya followed by Shudra). But I agree with you that publisher is not acceptable according to wiki standards and this particular title doesn't have any citations. But still it gives the idea that there are Kshatriyas in the same society that Kammas, Kapus and Reddies exist. And this Publisher is supposedly not good enough.

Source 8(though a snippet view) gives the caste breakup of people in Anakapalli. It lists Scheduled Tribes, Telagas, Yadavas, Kshatriyas, Fishermen and Vysyas. I don't want to talk about Source 9 as it is old according to your standards.

Comming to Source 10, let me define Sanskritization. It denotes the process by which caste or tribes placed lower in the caste hierarchy seek upward mobility by emulating the rituals and practices of the upper or dominant castes. Rajus have never been lower in the caste hierarchy. They have always been elites in the societies they live in. And they have never copied any rituals and practices of upper castes. They have been performing Punyakavacham, Upayanayam, Jata Karma, Barasala etc.(all Dwija customs) and they also have Brahminical gotras which are all characteristics of a Dwija(Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vysya). I can post many old sources which prove this but again they are not good enough for you as they are old. You also say that the article doesn't say 'Raju' explicitly but that is what I told in the very beginning. There is no caste called Raju officially. It is called Kshatriya in all official government documents and members of this community write Kshatriya as their caste in their employment certificated, job applications, population census etc. You won't find mention of 'Raju' anywhere in official certificates. You can only find Kshatriya. This came in 'The Hindu' which is the largest circulated newspaper in India. Why do you have to be in a willful denial mode?

Source 11 Regarding your statement "Any caste can choose to call themselves anything they wish", Dalits can call themselves Brahmins, Kapus can call themselves Vysyas, Reddies can call themselves Kshatriyas but it won't be reported in newspapers. And this was reported in 'The Hindu' which is the largest circulated Newspaper in India(A country of more than a billion, roughly a sixth of Human Population).In Andhra, Kshatriya and Raju are used interchangeably. Though Kshatriya is a varna, it is used as a caste also while referring to Rajus just like Brahmin though a varna is used as a caste to refer to Brahmin subcastes like Vaidikis, Niyogis etc. When Brahmin can be used as a caste, there is no reason why Kshatriya cannot be used.

Source 12 I will not talk about this as I agree this is not a reliable source though it lists Kshatriyas along with other castes

Sources 13 & 14 As I have already told before, there is no caste called Raju officially. They are called Kshatriyas. This article talks about S. Balarama Raju and calls his caste as Kshatriya. The second article talks about P Satyanarayana Raju and refers to him as a Kshatriya. It is to be noted that they are not claiming they are Kshatriyas. It is the newpapers that are referring to them as Kshatriyas. Now don't say that these newspapers are owned by them. It is very unfortunate that you purposely ignored it yet again.

Source 15 As I said before, there is no caste called Rajus officially. They are Kshatriyas.

Sources 16 & 17 also talk about Kshatriyas and not Rajus as that is how they are known officially.

I have commented on all the sources I used. Now let me comment about your sources.

Your first source is cambridge and it is not upto wiki standard(as said by you) https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=kOa2DQAAQBAJ&pg=PA77#v=onepage&q&f=false

Your second source is https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=2osmDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA278#v=onepage&q=kshatriya&f=false. Please go to page 306. It talks about Vijayanagar King and refers to him as a Kshatriya and also talks about Bobbili Kings and refers to them as Velamas. This is about the famous Battle of Bobbili which happened between Vijayanagaram and Bobbili. The Vijayanaram King was Pusapati Vijayarama Raju(The forefather of Ashok Gajapati Raju ex. Aviation Minister of Government of India). Your own source talks about Andhra Kshatriyas.

Your third source just says that several groups like Jats, Marathas, Reddies, Patels etc. claimed Kshatriya status. That doesn't say anything about Rajus being Kshatriyas. It also talks about Sanskritization and that these castes try to emulate Brahmin tradition but in reality none of the Telugu Upper Shudra Castes like Kamma, Kapu, Reddy, Velama etc. undergo Upanayanam(Sacred Thread) or have Brahminical Gotras. When they don't emulate Brahmin practices, I fail to understand how Sanskritization applies to these castes.

Your fourth source contradicts itself. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=mYEnBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA50#v=onepage&q&f=false On the one hand it says "We do not come across the term Kshatriya in Medieval Andhra desa" and on the other, if you see page page 51, it says "The daughter of Velanati Gonka II, Mailadevi, belonged to the Shudra caste but was married to the Haihaya Kshatriya prince of Palnadu, Anguraju." On the one hand she says there were no Kshatriyas in Medieval Andhra and on the other hand she says Anguraju who ruled Palnadu(Macherla Region of Guntur, South India) was a Kshatriya. How was that possible? She seems to be confused and unfortunately you are using such sources to push your POV. This book doesn't have any citations also.

In your fifth point, you said something about Reddies and also said there is only a snippet view about it. You didn't consider many of my sources saying they were snippet views but here you are providing snippet views to me as sources.

Your sixth source says "there is no kshatriya jati as such" but the Raju "claim" to be kshatriya". There is no Brahmin jati also. Brahmin is a varna. Several jatis claim to be Brahmin. By the way, why does your source say only Rajus claim Kshatriya status. Why not others also like Reddies, Kammas, Kapus etc. as they are also claimants according to you?

Your final source says that there is scarcely a twice born varna which is true. There are a very few castes that are considered twice born apart from Brahmins. Moreover this book focuses Christian Mission in Telangana. There are no native Kshatriyas in Telangana at present. The Rajus are mostly from Andhra and all of them in Hyderabad are migrants. That doesn't say anything about Rajus being Kshatriyas.

The below is a source by Kancha Ilaiya, the famous Dalit Bahujan activist(Your preferred authors). He mentions about Alluri SitaramaRaju and his caste.

https://books.google.com/books?id=DpSHAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA20&dq=kancha+ilaiah+alluri&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjqgpWK9_vZAhUlm-AKHWDLD-wQ6AEINDAC#v=onepage&q=kancha%20ilaiah%20alluri&f=false

If there were no Kshatriyas in South, why would he mention Alluri Sitarama Raju as a Kshatriya?

Please look at the below reference

https://books.google.com/books?id=o63Hau4If3cC&pg=PA29&dq=andhra+kshatriya&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjwmIjg9_vZAhVumuAKHeTwBgA4ChDoAQhIMAc#v=onepage&q=andhra%20kshatriya&f=false

It talks about a princess of Kshatriya lineage in Medieval Andhra. How cum there was a Kshatriya lineage when there were no Kshatriyas in South according to you?

Please consider this snippet view as you wanted me to consider your snippet view

https://books.google.com/books?id=im1DAAAAYAAJ&dq=andhra+kshatriya&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=rajus

It says "The Rajus of Madras are known as Andhra Kshatriyas."

It is very unfortunate that you purposely ignored the below reference saying that it is a snippet view. It was written by Mallampalli Somasekhara Sarma(A very great historian).

https://books.google.com/books?dq=History+of+the+Reddi+Kingdoms+dantuluri&focus=searchwithinvolume&id=diYLAQAAIAAJ&q=Racavaru

The above, though a snippet view, says distinctly that "The Kshatriyas of Andhra country are popularly known as Racavaru or Rajus".

I could go on but, as you can see, we need to have an unbiased state of mind. Otherwise, no matter how many sources are provided, we will be unwilling to go against our biased mindset. There is a lot of difference between saying that Rajus claim kshatriya status and Rajus are considered Kshatriyas. The Kshatriya status of Rajus has a fair amount of academic support and we cannot ignore it unless we have a biased mindset.

Rajus follow all the Dwija customs. They undergo upanayana and have Brahminical gotras. I don't understand why you are not able to see the reality. I assume you don't even live in Andhra. You don't know anything about Telugu society. How can you decide which caste is what? I am asking this question as I am new to wikipedia and I am amazed by how wiki works. People who know nothing about something decide what should go into that article Sharkslayer87 (talk) 22:40, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

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