Misplaced Pages

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Archives

/Archive 1, /Archive 2, /Archive 3

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Trump, Žižek and Myron Ebell

Hi there. At Trump, I try to involve an Slovenian leftist contrarian turbo prof. At Myron Ebell several authors, including me, have been accused of being a paid shill of Heartland, Exxon and the Wallstreet. You find the suspects on User_talk:SW3_5DL#Myron_Ebell as well. Have fun! Polentarion Talk 10:34, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

I am aware of the Ebell controversy, and seem to remember admins are dealing with it. But, I don't understand why you want to include Žižek on the Trump page. You have several times used the term "press clippings" in what sounds like a derogatory manner. Articles in the respected press are used in WP articles about recent events for a good reason. They are highly reliable. Pardon me, but your emphasis on books and "scholarly studies" sounds to me more like academia elitism. Objective3000 (talk) 12:31, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Thnx for the feedback. My point is

a) Trump's election is a recent event, but Trumps raise and career has been scrutinized in various studies and of cause books.

b) I have a problem with the current fashion to discuss just the details of articles bottom up so to say. I prefer a top down approach, discussing as well the basic narrative and the overall structure. The trump talk page was focusing into detail.

d) we should not spend half of the talk page about the hair comb meme in the yellow press and ignore the serious studies covering that internet meme in academia.

e) sorta German - the deWP has an explicit preference with regard to scholarly sources, historical studies on the top hierarchy level. It is not as strict here, but no one would cover a normal topic in e.g. ape species by newsletter clippings if you got suitable academic studies.

Conclusio: I believe that a good article on a global celebrity may and should consist of a mixture of serious press, academic papers and non fiction and even fiction books and media. I might sound elitist, but to have not any book nor "scholarly study" involved, is the opposite of it, populism. And it ignores sound knowledge. This project is about collecting and summarizing knowledge. Polentarion Talk 15:51, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

I don’t think populism is the opposite of scholarly study. Indeed, appeals to populism are more critical of press than academe, particularly in recent history. (Albeit followers of populist messages are likely unaware of academic studies.) The problem I have is that this is a BLP. WP is extremely careful with such. It’s very interesting to look into the mind of John Adams or Hamilton, after time has provided us with a more mature examination. I just don’t see a psychoanalyst or philosopher, who hasn’t interviewed Trump, having a place in a BLP. If we look at the article on Nixon, a huge number of books are listed. But, if Misplaced Pages had been writing an article at the time, WaPo would have been the major source. What really goes on in the mind of a Trump will be important to document – when we have enough information from enough study. When he is no longer a living person. Objective3000 (talk) 17:17, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

You surely need a personal contact for a psycholanalysis. But Zizek is no shrink but an influential cultural critic, listed e..g. by Foreign Policy list of top Global Thinkers. Would you disallow a psychoanalyst or philosopher to edit Trumps article? I doubt that. And with regard to Nixon, Wapo was just about Watergate. If Nixon would be now in the last months of his presidency, we would probably have an opinion piece from Zizek praising The Dick for his skills as a peace maker, his China policy and environmental pioneering - Nixon brought acid rain and greenhouse effect on the international agenda and founded EPA. ;) Polentarion Talk 18:21, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Nixon was both an impressive president, and a paranoid crook. Writing an encyclopedia article about such a person while he is still alive is very difficult. I think you need to stick to the facts and leave the mind reading to when he is no longer living. I would not stop a psychoanalyst or philosopher from editing a WP:BLP, so long as they stuck to facts. Objective3000 (talk) 18:37, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

With regard to Trump, we got a lot of body-reading, especially about the hair. Its the most discussed thing on the talk page and the one where the classical Wikipedian expects no scientific study at all. But they exist and are being ignored. The most interesting facts are the ones constructed in our minds. That said, have a great week! Polentarion Talk 18:46, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages as political lobbyist?

Hi Objective3000, would you mind explaining further what you mean by saying, "Misplaced Pages abandoned its mission of creating an objective encyclopedia and initiated its new life as a political lobbyist"? I'm not as active as you are (were), so what am I missing? Can you point me to references/articles explaining further? - Paul2520 (talk) 20:00, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages completely shut down for a day, screwing who knows how many students, to protest a particular bill before Congress that they didn't like. An encyclopedia informs. It does not agitate. Objective3000 (talk) 20:04, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Screwing them out of what, exactly? PS If you wish to testify in the first trial of User:Hidden Tempo, it seems to me it needs to be in the involved editor section. SashiRolls (talk) 22:03, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Screwing students who had papers due the next day by surprisingly making their encyclopedia disappear. I have made no statement in the Hidden Tempo appeal. I merely responded to a comment. If I "testified," it would contain the limit of diffs displaying his abusive editing. He's one of the least civil editors I've run into in years. Objective3000 (talk) 22:09, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

SashiRolls blocked for six months. No complaint by me. I'm wondering if posting on this page is dangerous.:) Objective3000 (talk) 00:57, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

What's the deal with the Hillary Clinton special issue thing....

Why do you say it wasn't real? Topix inc. Sent out the magazines, hundreds were sold. the 17 number was completely debunked, and the article you linked to was published the day after the election, when Topix was doing heavy duty coverup in order to stop what was a huuuuuuuuuggggge embarrassment. You can go to Amazon.com and look it up. As Chico Marx once said: "who should I believe, you or my own eyes?" Arglebargle79 (talk) 22:03, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

No, the conspiracy theory that is being pushed that Newsweek was biased was debunked. There is no evidence that more than 17 copies were sold. Misplaced Pages depends on WP:RS. Looking at eBay or Amazon is not WP:RS. It is WP:OR, which is not allowed. If more were sold, it still is WP:TRIVIA and WP:UNDUE. This is common practice in the souvenir business. Your opinion that this was a "huuuuuuuuuggggge embarrassment" is WP:POV and not allowed. The only difference is that a nutcase conspiracy theory was made of it. That theory never took off in the major news sources. There is no there there. Your behavior here is now become disruptive. You must gain consensus before adding material to articles that is controversial or makes accusations. Objective3000 (talk) 22:12, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Advantage gambling: Revision history

You removed a citation link for a statement which had no citation and you cited spam. The citation linked to an authoritative matched betting glossary which provided the definition for the article statement which was missing the citation. I do not believe this is spam and if you think it is then provide a citation from the industry which provides weight to the statement, please do not simply remove without verifying or providing authority alternatives.

Thanks Graeme

Graeme Trueman (talk) 18:53, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is based upon WP:RS. The site for which you have added links on three articles has not been recognized as a reliable source. It's an online gambling portal. It appears that you have been here for one day, have added several links, and had them reverted by two editors. Objective3000 (talk) 19:38, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

IP

I was thinking we could have taken it to ANI and got a block on the IP for disruption, especially with all those BLP violations. I think he's a sock. Should I email a checkuser? SW3 5DL (talk) 02:32, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

ANI is generally slower to react than an available sysop. I'm not sure how useful a checkuser is on an IPV6. Objective3000 (talk) 02:39, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

What's an IPV6? Is that service that reroutes you to another IP, like TunnelBear? SW3 5DL (talk) 03:22, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

The newer six section IPs, unlike the older four section IPs. A checkuser is not likely to use his tools based on a hunch. And, there are only around three dozen checkusers. Objective3000 (talk) 12:11, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

I wanted to see who would turn up on the discussion. Sock masters seem to turn up eventually. I think one may have done. That's why I kept responding. It's really a closed topic except for the sock master. Don't know if the checkuser will catch him as I did not ask about all who commented vigorously there. SW3 5DL (talk) 01:02, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I gathered that you were prodding a violation. I understand why you might do that and apologize if that wasn't your intent. But, just let the thread die a natural death. Objective3000 (talk) 01:09, 6 January 2017 (UTC).

Oh yes, in fact, we should probably collapse it. What do you think? SW3 5DL (talk) 01:17, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Self R/V

WP:WINING TimothyJosephWood 13:06, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

Funny that that essay can be reached via that spelling. Objective3000 (talk) 13:09, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

Yeah...there was some RfD drama over it recently. TimothyJosephWood 13:29, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

So, someone was whining about the whining essay. Objective3000 (talk) 13:35, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

Possibly wining while whining about WP:WINING not redirecting to WP:WINNING. TimothyJosephWood 13:47, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	I wanted you to know how much I appreciated your comment on the ANI. You were the first reasonable voice to post there and it meant a great deal to me. Thank you. SW3 5DL (talk) 02:46, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

I don't know if you happened to see my last comment there, but I inadvertently left off your name. I realized my mistake when I looked over my list of editors to thank and saw you right there at the top. I have since gone back and added it. It meant a lot to me. Thank you. here. SW3 5DL (talk) 02:49, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. The political articles are tough. High editor attrition rate. I'm surprised we haven't all been blocked.:) Objective3000 (talk) 11:48, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Rudy Giuliani

Hey Objective. I decided to leave you this message for several reasons. Your name- objective, your user page stating your commitment to the encyclopedia mission and npov, your gaming edits are very good, I have been playing cards for a living for many years and many gaming pages where I expected to find incorrect fallacies are well edited and not wanting for much thanks in part to your collaborations. Also since you have been around a while and reverted one of my attempts at editing Rudy Giuliani I thought I might ask for your guidance. On every other page I've worked on there is always give and take, back and forth with other editors acting in good faith to try and improve the encyclopedia for the good of all. If I make a factual edit with RS, it is sometimes left, sometimes edited a bit, etc, you know the deal but we always end up with a better entry, more accurate, complete, and better sourced (even some Trump and Clinton pages). However, at Rudy Giuliani, I seem to have run into a few users who only revert the whole thing. I have tried editing the whole section or part of the section in question. I have tried adding a sentence or deleting a sentence. Same thing revert by 2 or 3 users that seem to think they own the page. One of them says use the talk page, well I did months ago with only positive response, they still revert. I'm sure you are aware of Graham's hierarchy of disagreement. These users NEVER argue the central points or facts or back it up. However they are in the bottom 3 rungs with name calling, ad hominems, threats and ridicule. There are many examples, but one is a non-existent link that a paragraph is based on. I delete the paragraph and non-existent link and they just revert it- non-existent link and all. Hope to hear from you. THANKS. Aceruss (talk) 07:18, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for the kind words. The rules are much stiffer on biographies of living people. And stiffer yet on articles on post-1930 politics. A quick look indicates a few problems. First, you have been edit warring. You can't repeatedly make the same edit without discussion. After a while, people will just revert you without even looking at your edit. Secondly, when you make major changes to long-standing text, you need to gain consensus. That is particularly true on recent political BLPs. That may take some time on this article as it doesn't appear to get much editor traffic. Next, the only time I can see that you went to Talk, you essentially attacked another editor instead of politely making a case. (Incidentally, the editor you hit is not only an admin, but a checkuser, about the highest trusted level here. He likely ignored it.) Finally, and more to the point, the text you are adding looks like Original Research, and Synthesis. You can't tie together multiple sources to come to a conclusion. That has to be done by a source. You'll find that polite discourse on the Talk Pages is very valuable and you are far more likely to receive a detailed explanation of the relevant guidelines.

I'll add an aside. As a long time resident of Manhattan, I believe most of us would not agree with your change. Of course this is not relevant as it's my own personal opinion and therefore doesn't count. Objective3000 (talk) 11:45, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for replying. I too have NYC ties I was born there and a resident for over 20 years. I look forward to some collaboration with you and others on gambling related pages. About the Giuliani page, let me make 2 points. I didn't really attack the editor I responded in kind. I was an editing newcomer on Misplaced Pages in late NOV being bold and editing in good faith when I got this message from that editor (name omitted)You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you vandalize Misplaced Pages by deliberately introducing incorrect information, as you did at Rudy Giuliani. xxxxx (talk) 03:25, 30 November 2016 (UTC) I was not vandalizing or introducing incorrect info it was well sourced, he was biting the newcomer and not assuming good faith. Second point- Giuliani is widely credited with turning NYC around especially crime wise. He stepped on some toes to get the job done no doubt and thus has detractors. Bottom line majority and significant minority viewpoints are supposed to be represented in an article. The whole article especially the section I was editing is extremely one sided against Giuliani. I am merely trying to add balance with RS. Your feedback is appreciated.Aceruss (talk) 08:11, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Tor .onion urls

Hi, You reverted my edit to The Pirate Bay, stating "Onion urls are blacklisted by Misplaced Pages". The first five articles I recognised and clicked on in the List of Tor hidden services - AlphaBay, TheRealDeal, WikiLeaks, DuckDuckGo, and Facebookcorewwwi.onion - all had .onion links, and one is even in the article title. Admittedly, the WikiLeaks one is down in the references, but it's still there. Talk:List of Tor hidden services has two mentions about urls: "Many TOR URLs have been removed, ostensibly for "lacking citation""; and "URLs could be cited from an index like skunksworkedp2cg.onion.to/sites.html but the url is blacklisted" (which I read as being just something about that index). I seem to remember reading a comment elsewhere about .onion urls being blacklisted because of links to child porn, but I did search and couldn't find any official reference. Additionally, there was no mention of the .onion url in Talk:The_Pirate_Bay. My point is that I did consider things before I made my edit, and it seemed to me that even if .onion urls were blacklisted, then it would only apply if they were hyperlinked. Anyway, please direct me to more info. Dave Laned130 (talk) 19:40, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

See WP:ELNO paragraph 7. You will see it is also on the WP blacklist. Also, consensus on the TPB article, after enormous discussion, is to only include the official TPB link. BTW, if you attempt to include an actual TOR hyperlink, the Save changes button will present an error message. Objective3000 (talk) 20:24, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. I can't say I agree with the policy, but I'll refrain from adding TOR links in the future. I agree that TOR hyperlinks would be confusing to users, although in my opinion a better solution would be to just redirect them to a Misplaced Pages page that explains that they are only viewable with the correct software. It seems to me that extra, relevant, info is always worth including in an article it. It doesn't have to be formatted as a link that doesn't work, it's just information that is relevant to the subject, especially in this case where it has a reference that is viewable on the clearnet. I don't see "uj3wazyk5u4hnvtk" in the blacklist, and searching for "onion" only shows the line "\b+\.onion\b # was \bsilkroad.*\.onion\b". Was the discussion about including the TOR link on the Talk page? I don't see it there. I would be interested to read the arguments. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Laned130 (talk • contribs) 20:54, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

"\b+\.onion\b" is REGEX code for all .onion urls. It's also against the definition of the url field in the website infobox. Only official urls are allowed, and very rarely more than one. Basically, this is to keep infoboxes brief summaries, and noncontroversial. Exceptions are normally large corporations which may have different sites for consumer sales and corporate business. Objective3000 (talk) 21:02, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Free

I think it's already implied that the media coverage was free, but whatever.Anythingyouwant (talk) 00:07, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

"Truish", but it's only five characters and was an important part of the (perhaps all too) clever media strategy. Objective3000 (talk) 00:13, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Adlerschloß (talk) 12:08, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

You were lucky this didn't WP:boomerang. I suggest in future you avoid escalation without discussion. Objective3000 (talk) 12:34, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

I'll second that. I've been debating for probably entirely too long now whether to revert the close for exactly that reason. Softlavender did you a favor on this one. I wouldn't take that for granted. TimothyJosephWood 12:52, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Adlerschloß may not be watching this page. Objective3000 (talk) 13:48, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Maybe not, but there are plenty of folks watching them. TimothyJosephWood 13:52, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.

This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the WP:DRN regarding dispute resolution. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. The thread is "Talk:Pizzagate conspiracy_theory#Spirit_cooking_and_leaked_FBI_document".The discussion is about the topic Pizzagate. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! --Terrorist96 (talk) 18:56, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Hello, from a DR/N volunteer

This is a friendly reminder to involved parties that there is a current Dispute Resolution Noticeboard case still awaiting comments and replies. If this dispute has been resolved to the satisfaction of the filing editor and all involved parties, please take a moment to add a note about this at the discussion so that a volunteer may close the case as "Resolved". If the dispute is still ongoing, please add your input. Yashovardhan (talk) 05:05, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

This is to inform you that an attempt is being made to overturn an RfC that you voted on

This is to inform you that an attempt is being made to overturn an RfC that you voted on (2 RfCs, actually, one less than six months ago and another a year ago). The new RfC is at:

Misplaced Pages:Village pump (policy)#RfC: Allow private schools to be characterized as non-affiliated as well as religious, in infobox?

Specifically, it asks that "religion = none" be allowed in the infobox.

The first RfC that this new RfC is trying to overturn is:

• 15 June 2015 RfC: RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion.

The result of that RfC was "unambiguously in favour of omitting the parameter altogether for 'none' " and despite the RfC title, additionally found that "There's no obvious reason why this would not apply to historical or fictional characters, institutions etc.", and that nonreligions listed in the religion entry should be removed when found "in any article".

The second RfC that this new RfC is trying to overturn is:

• 31 December 2015 RfC: RfC: Religion in infoboxes.

The result of that RfC was that the "in all Misplaced Pages articles, without exception, nonreligions should not be listed in the Religion= parameter of the infobox.".

Note: I am informing everyone who commented on the above RfCs, whether they supported or opposed the final consensus. --Guy Macon (talk) 03:26, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Any suggestions for responsibly citing my original work?

I believe the research I did into simulating the Labouchere system is relevant to the Misplaced Pages article. I also believe my citation was relevant because my contributions to the article are derived directly from the work I completed in the paper. Do you have any thoughts on how I might responsibly acknowledge the original source of this work if I "shouldn't be putting my own work on wikipedia?" The paper goes very in depth into simulating the system and analyzing its statistical outcomes.

Possibly an additional reading section? Maybe just leave the citation?

I'm also considering adding a section acknowledging the use of the system for betting in cryptocurrencies.

Thanks,

Jake — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jakebillings (talk • contribs) 21:32, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Original research is not allowed. See: WP:OR. You also should read: WP:NOTPROMOTION. Also, you cannot win even with an infinite bankroll. One must be careful with the word infinite. All possible outcomes will exist with an infinite number of trials. That includes the outcome where you lose every hand. Also, you cannot effectively increase an infinite bankroll. Objective3000 (talk) 11:56, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

My last edit

Where would I put my last edit on which page? James O'Keefe you say? I edited the CNN controversy page just to refresh your memory

ThePlane11 (talk) 18:05, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

I think it's already in the Project Veritas article, and probably the James O'Keefe article. Objective3000 (talk) 18:07, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Your edits on Talk:James Comey

Please refrain from using talk pages for general discussion of the topic or other unrelated topics. They are for discussion related to improving the article; not for use as a forum or chat room. If you have specific questions about certain topics, consider visiting our reference desk and asking them there instead of on article talk pages. See here for more information. Thank you.

The purpose of a talk page is to engage in discussion about improving the article, not to spit random one-liners about "Sounds like OR" without any thought behind them. Power~enwiki (talk) 01:38, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

I am doing no such thing. You are refusing to allow discussion by edit-warring and deleting talk page edits you don't like. Frankly, I don't even understand why you don't like them. I suggest you think about this, stop your disruptive behavior, and remove your odd comments. Objective3000 (talk) 01:41, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

If you have discussion regarding the article, or regarding my top-level comment, please make it in a new top-level reply. Power~enwiki (talk) 01:43, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

I made comments that were absolutely honest and relative. You keep removing them in violation of WP:AGF and other guidelines. Reread my comments. They are absolutely on-point, and designed to be productive. I suggest that you consider that you are taking offensive for some reason that is not valid and reverse your actions as hardly anyone else will consider them reasonable. Objective3000 (talk) 01:48, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

If you don't stop trolling immediately, I intend to start a case at ANI about your behavior make a long statement at DRN about your behavior. This is your last warning. Power~enwiki (talk) 01:50, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Get some sleep. And then, read WP:BOOMERANG. Objective3000 (talk) 01:54, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

I note specifically as an edit so counter-productive that I assume it was in bad faith. You said "Sounds like OR.", then say you haven't accused me of OR, then take offense when I refer to original research as a "blind accusation". All the while, I am unsure as to what statement of mine you are referring to, as I do not believe I made any statement at all. Power~enwiki (talk) 02:38, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Again, I suggest you get some sleep and reread this. There is nothing the tiniest bit untoward in that statement. And the threats you have made are so far out of bounds as to question your current state. Meanwhile, stay off my talk page. You are not welcome here with your current attitude. Objective3000 (talk) 02:41, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Please stop these suggestions that I am over-tired. And please provide diffs for "threats". Power~enwiki (talk) 02:43, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Stop posting to my talk page. Objective3000 (talk) 02:44, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

ANI notice as required; I don't plan any further comments here. Power~enwiki (talk) 02:45, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Power~enwiki (talk) 02:45, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Refactoring

But then it looks like I'm replying to you, shouldn't I put my reply directly below the edit to which I am replying? Hidden Tempo (talk) 16:50, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

You put your edit in the middle of my edit. Objective3000 (talk) 16:50, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Oh, indeed I did lol. Sorry about that, thanks for the fix. Hidden Tempo (talk) 16:53, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Russian Interference

What do you mean by a TBan violation? And how is it a violation since it is non inflammatory, sourced, and factual? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryanfoster99 (talk • contribs) 14:50, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

A Tban is a total ban from editing the subject article(s). See WP:TBAN. Objective3000 (talk) 14:55, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Black 9 System

Hi Objective3000, I am aware of the COI policy, and wouldn't have posted the reference if I had a connection to the author. I understand that a new, self-published book is not particularly significant. The reason I added it was because I wished to add the system to the list of systems in the article. The system itself wasn't from the book - I heard about it on a forum about a year ago. Because I follow card counting in some ebook stores, and read new material on it, I read the book. Seeing that the system it set out was the same as one I had seen before, I posted the system. I did not post it before because I thought that a reference was required. The book is irrelevant to the system, and I don't mind if it was removed. However, I feel that the system may be useful to people who are coming to card counting. If you feel that it would not be correct to add it, then I will defer to your judgement, however I would appreciate it if you could see your way to replacing the system in the table. Thanks, Awesomeworld18 (talk) 22:57, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

I'll ignore the fact that you added the link to the book the day after the book was published. There exist numerous counts. The ones that are in the table have been used for decades by large numbers of people and are well known. No one in the field has heard of this system, which is why you won't find WP:reliable sources for it. But worse, it's a bad system. It has worse betting correlation, playing efficiency and insurance correlation than KO, and has the same difficulty. That is, it pretty much fails on all aspects. Sorry, there is a long list of strategies that are not only better, but have large numbers of users and reliable sources. Objective3000 (talk) 00:21, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi Objective3000,

As I said before, the book appeared in a suggested list - I have no affiliation to it. I understand where you are coming from with the count, but I am curious: what numbers did you have for betting correlation, playing efficiency and insurance correlation? I don't doubt your results, I just want to know. When I ran the numbers to check if it was useful, I had a result that the BC was equal to KO, PE was slightly better, and Ic was slightly worse - with a result that KO had a 2% advantage. In any case, I added the sysytem as I thought it might be interesting to new players, not necessarily to be used by players. I'm obviously not very experienced with Misplaced Pages editing, so I didn't know that it was incorrect. I won't post it next time. Anyway, if you could post the numbers, that would be great. If not, or if its too much hassle, never mind. Thanks Awesomeworld18 (talk) 05:24, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, I forgot the minus sign on the 9. PE:.5579, BC:.9792, IC:.7448. (With the proviso that PE isn't really accurate in unbalanced counts.) Should be almost as good as KO in today's games. Objective3000 (talk) 10:54, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Trump nicknames and Humpty Dumpty

Hi, please see my comment on the Talk page of Humpty Dumpty. Also how do you suggest I go about creating an article containing relevant information the nicknames. This would all be from reliable, secondary sources talking about the impact of and use of the nickames. Here was my second attempt which was simply deleted despite it making a genuine effort to be encyclopedic. 20:50, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

{redacted}

Your article was deleted per WP:G4. It really makes no sense to have an article like this as there should be only a coupla nicknames. Nicknames for Trump should fit the same criteria as the nicknames for past presidents. That is, they are heavily used, over time, by a preponderance of reliable sources. That is, millions of people are likely to use the name and the name will end up in respected books. “Fuckface Von Clownstick” is not used by the NYT, WaPo, The Guardian, Le Monde, Der Spiegel, The BBC, CNN, etc. It’s not acceptable. Objective3000 (talk) 21:04, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

I still find it hard to believe that there can't be any documentation on Misplaced Pages of the effect of, and the use of, these nicknames. Insulting nicknames, if you will, but they are still important events/trends that happened in history. I think people want them eliminated simply because they are insults. Which to me is not legitimate when you are talking about documenting history. Keizers (talk) 21:10, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

If tens of millions of people start referring to him as fuckface, then it can be added. But, the fact that a comic used the term means nothing in the context of history. I assure you that George Washington was called many such pejorative names in his time. But, they did not stand the test of time. Objective3000 (talk) 21:18, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

The difference is, today we can see tens or hundreds of thousands of people publishing that name, I would argue that that's worth documenting. Anyway. Keizers (talk) 21:22, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Google searches are useless for such a determination. You would need a preponderance of respected sources. The rules for living persons are far more strict. Objective3000 (talk) 21:25, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

No, I mean the fact that hundreds of thousands of people are using that word during any one period of time being newsworthy in itself. Anyway. Keizers (talk) 21:34, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

It may be newsworthy. But, WP:NOTNEWS. Objective3000 (talk) 21:37, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Cheetos

Really? It's not permissible to even MENTION this nickname (secondary source, reliable) in a section called "Cheetos in popular culture"? But all the other things there like Cheetos being shaped like Jesus are "notable"? I think part of the problem here is people are not saying the real reason why this is unacceptable. It is not a consistent application of the theory of noteworthiness. The only reason (besides something more like censorship) is because such nicknames are "not allowed to be mentioned" for "living persons". That's fine with me but just tell me the REAL REASON... Keizers (talk) 01:08, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

The real reasons are what several editors have told you: WP:BLP WP:NPOV WP:RECENTISM add WP:UNDUE. Look, you have three times as many edits as I. You have contributed. But, you appear to have strayed into a more delicate area. If you persist, someone is going to ask for sanctions. That's not a threat. It's friendly advice. No one looking up Cheetos or a nursery rhyme wants to hear political stuff. People get enough of that elsewhere. Objective3000 (talk) 01:20, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

NPOV with regards to Dan Huberty Page

Your recent editing history at Dan Huberty shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Azeroth92 (talk • contribs) 16:09, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

@Azeroth92: Good lord. YOU are the one that has been reverted by many editors, (including an admin) in an attempt to add NPOV material to a BLP. You have been warned repeatedly that you do not have consensus to add this material. You have made zero effort to gain consensus. I strongly suggest you self-revert as this is a post-1932 American politics article. See

Incidentally, you have also cast aspersions against two editors without a wit of evidence. And your accusation that I am removing material that doesn't favor Huberty is absurd on its face as just a few hours ago I removed material that was heavily critical of him. Objective3000 (talk) 16:31, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

Editor blocked. Objective3000 (talk) 18:26, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

Russian trolls

Since the recent news about Russia's online influence operations, I've been seriously wondering how many of our fellow contributors are Russian trolls, and what if anything might be done about it. Do you have any thoughts on this? --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 16:08, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

I've had the same feelings; but haven't the slightest idea what to do about it other than look for evidence of socks. Using socks would seem an obvious tool. And, when a sock farm is so large you need to create a page like , I suspect many, many more. Objective3000 (talk) 16:19, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Mass shootings

For your information, we're talking about civilian shootings that occurred during a fit of rage. Things that happened during the Civil War and Indian Wars do not apply to the article on Stephen Paddock.--Anthony22 (talk) 23:58, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) For your information, the statement "the massacre is the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history" does not make the distinction you are trying to make. A mass shooting is the shooting of large numbers of people (civilians), arguably not in the midst of a war. Other than the last distinction, there is nothing about the term that limits it to "civilian shootings that occurred during a fit of rage". Hence the Wounded Knee massacre and many other events in US history qualify as mass shootings, and were far deadlier. The phrase "by a lone gunman" makes a distinction between those events and this. General Ization 00:03, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

(edit conflict)That's not what the sentence says. And, where did you get the "fit of rage" from? I haven't seen that in any RS. You are editing too much without consensus in a high-view article. That's why so many people are reverting your edits and you are being asked to go to Talk. Seriously, when making changes to the lede in such an article, you really need to discuss first. We still have NO idea of the motive. We must proceed carefully. Objective3000 (talk) 00:06, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

Adelson and the Review-Journal

Thanks for pointing out the shocking lack of any information about this at either article. I wondered if it had been censored or something, but no, it apparently just never got put in. I am working to remedy that but I won't be able to work steadily at it due to other commitments today. If you want to help, my draft is at User:MelanieN/practice. --MelanieN (talk) 18:13, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Inserted a section into the Review-Journal article. Won't have time to work on the Adelson material for a while.--MelanieN (talk) 19:23, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

I fiddled with the LVRJ article a bit. Have to get to dinner. O3000 (talk) 21:16, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I added material to Adelson also. Fiddle away. --MelanieN (talk) 06:40, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. That article is in much better shape, save the Ideology section that looks like it was written by Reince Priebus. One problem -- I was about to remove a second external link (I believe Newsmeat is defunct), checked first and found the article was under 1RR. It wouldn't draw sanctions; but it's probably a technical violation. O3000 (talk) 13:37, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

It's not a violation unless there have been intervening edits by others. Consecutive reverts count as a single revert. BTW I already posted at the talk page my intention to greatly trim that section but I won't have time today so feel free. Way too much verbatim quoting, basically puffery. MelanieN alt (talk) 17:23, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Trimmed 3,700 bytes from Ideology keeping the refs. O3000 (talk) 15:42, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

DRN notice: Jesus

This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jtrevor99 (talk • contribs) 14:13, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Card counting

Hi - since you've now twice re-added content you accept is not adequately sourced, can I remind you of WP:BURDEN:

"The burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who adds or restores material, and is satisfied by providing a citation to a reliable source that directly supports the contribution. Attribute all quotations and any material whose verifiability is challenged or likely to be challenged to a reliable, published source using an inline citation. The cited source must clearly support the material as presented in the article. Cite the source clearly and precisely (specifying page, section, or such divisions as may be appropriate). See Citing sources for details of how to do this. Any material lacking a reliable source directly supporting it may be removed and should not be restored without an inline citation to a reliable source."

Can I therefore ask that you self-revert your restoration, given the sentence I've put in italics above. Thanks in advanc. Amisom (talk) 19:42, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

• Welcome to my talk. But, I did not add it twice and am not slightly close to 3RR. I restored it once. Someone else restored it earlier, and I certainly wasn't the author.
• Did you not see my multiple notes that I am working on it? The text has many problems in addition to the lack of refs. Your removal of the entire section resulted in an edit conflict while I was trying to improve it.
• The entire article has a problem with refs, not just this section. There are innumerable sources. But, they don't meet IRS standards. My own books and sites contain such info. But, I don't ref my own work. Not sure how we go about fixing this. Suggestions are welcome. Meanwhile, I have tagged the section and will look for some refs.

  Pardon me, I miscounted (it was someone else who re-added it earlier). My mistake. Yes, I did see your notes that you are working on it; but that's not what WP:BURDEN (one of our policies) says. It says no to re-inserting unsourced material until it is sourced. It's not optional. Once again: are you going to remove it to comply with that policy? Amisom (talk) 19:57, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

I just tagged it. You don't remove a section immediately after it's been tagged. This isn't a WP:BLP. Besides, you'd have to remove half of all the gaming related articles if you took that strong a stance. Also, most editors try to help before making wholesale removals. That's why we tag. You are welcome to take this to Talk. Nevermind, I will. O3000 (talk) 20:29, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

I know you tagged it. I know that for two reasons: (1) because you told me, and (b) because you tagged it and I have eyes.

If you want to change WP:BURDEN so that it reads, "Any material lacking a reliable source directly supporting it may be removed but can be restored at any time so long as it is tagged as unreferenced", go to WT:V and propose that. In the meantime, it says "Any material lacking a reliable source directly supporting it may be removed and should not be restored without an inline citation to a reliable source" and you are expected to comply with that. Amisom (talk) 20:35, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Pai gow poker (which transmogrified into BJ)

Thanks for tidying up after me there. That article has its issues, & several times I've made an edit there that I felt was an improvement, yet far from ideal. You took the problem I wanted to fix, & made it more clear. While I'm here, I've seen you around from time to time, & I was wondering if you would mind if I asked you a couple of blackjack questions. I know the "appropriate" place to ask would be the ref desks, but gambling-related questions seem to generate responses that are either clueless or completely full of shit (or both). Joefromrandb (talk) 03:44, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for working on PGP. Sure, ask away. O3000 (talk) 12:03, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. Once I got to the point where I could play perfect BS by rote, I decided to try my hand at counting. I've never had the time (nor likely do I have the talent) to get good at it; while I still occasionally give it a try from time to time, I usually just stick to BS. My 1st question regards hitting hard 16: BS says to hit v 7–A. However, if the correct play is to hit hard 16 v 7–A with any running minus, why wouldn't BS call for the player who isn't counting to stand? As a parallel, hit 12 v 4 with any running minus, while BS says hit 12 v 2–3, stand v 4. Further confusing is the fact that I've seen the occasional BS table that says to hit hard 16 v 9 or 10, stand v 7, 8, or A. My second question concerns surrendering 8,8: BS says surrender hard 16 v 9, 10, or A, but if the 16 is 8–8, only surrender if double-after-split isn't available; with DAS, splitting the 8's offers a very small advantage. I understand this as far as v 9 or 10 are concerned. However, since any situation where doubling against an ace is indicated requires a positive true count, why wouldn't BS say to surrender 8,8 v 9 or 10, or A without DAS, & with DAS, split v 9 or 10, surrender v A? If I'm playing BS and I split 8's against an ace, even if I draw a 3 on each of them, I'm not doubling; would splitting still improve my overall percentages in such a scenario? Thanks for any insight you may be able to offer me. Joefromrandb (talk) 18:15, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

BS appears to contradict counting in some close plays. This is because BS takes into account the fact that the player and dealer cards have been removed for the remaining cards. Counting does not take this into account in the decision matrix as this is taken into account by the count itself.

With BS, you would never stand with 16 v 7, 8, 9, A.

You don't have the surrender stuff right. Look at Ken's tables at and notice how the tables change with different rules. O3000 (talk) 18:37, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

I know BS varies, and I should have specified 8-deck, dealer stands S17, DAS. I refuse to play at a table where the dealer hits S17. A lifelong Philadelphian, I play the overwhelming majority of BJ in Atlantic City. Ballys generally has $25 tables where dealer stands S17 during the week, although weekends & holidays you almost always have to play at a $100-minimum table to get this. While I certainly don't consider myself a rich man, I can afford to play at a hundred-dollar table now & then. Nonetheless, it disgusts me to be required to bet a higher amount to play under standard conditions. 30 years ago DHS17 was something largely confined to nickel-and-dime joints in Old City, Las Vegas. Nowadays they're almost everywhere. Upon adjusting the conditions to 8-deck, DAS, dealer stands S17, the tables to which you linked yield the same surrender rules that I've always observed: hard 16 (excepting 8,8) v 9, 10, or A, & hard 15 v 10. Interestingly, however, those tables say to split 8,8 with or without DAS, so apparently I do have it wrong. I learned my original BS from Revere's book, & it was Revere who said to surrender the 8,8 without DAS, but with DAS it's advantageous, albeit infinitesimally so, to split them. Is this not in fact the case? Did I misunderstand Revere's tables? Joefromrandb (talk) 20:35, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

I met Revere 40 years back. Interesting guy. He had a math degree, but got his numbers from others. Anywho, I checked with Cacarulo’s CA numbers and they indicate no surrender with or without DAS. I’m not absolutely convinced that this is true as I just ran a quick generation and it said surrender without DAS. But, the difference is so tiny it doesn’t matter. O3000 (talk) 21:52, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

Just chatted with Schlesinger. Neither of us can remember Revere having any 8 deck tables. But then, it was long ago. O3000 (talk) 22:34, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

You're correct about that. Upon digging out the book, they were, in fact, 6-deck tables. Assuming that surrender without DAS is the correct play, would you agree with me that with DAS there would be an advantage to splitting v 9 or 10, but surrendering v A? I realize that it would be egregiously infinitesimal; probably a matter of pennies over thousands of hours of play. I'm just trying to figure out if my line of thinking is correct, or if there's something I'm overlooking. Joefromrandb (talk) 00:09, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

This isn't stressed enough in the literature. BS is defined as the best play off the top of the deck. That is, in the one hand after a shuffle -- not all hands. It's a ridiculous definition that dates back to when compute′rs were vastly less powerful. So, it isn't really "correct" for all hands. But, the difference is so slight as it doesn't really matter. IIRC Julian Braun ran the numbers for Revere, and he didn't use combinatorial analysis. He used simulation, which I believe is more accurate with today's computers. I get surrender using the same. Truthfully, all methods of strategy creation contain compromises. But, it's only of academic interest as the real world compromises make such nit-picking moot. O3000 (talk) 01:25, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks! It's been a long while since I've had a conversation about BJ in which I've come away having learned something. Of the dozens of people who have claimed to me that they were counters, only 1 of them actually knew anything about the subject. I knew I would come across a second eventually! Joefromrandb (talk) 01:41, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Teamwork Barnstar
	Thank you for your edit on the Roy Moore article. I am much more comfortable with that language. Txantimedia (talk) 21:53, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

FYI

My edit was challenged as wrong venue, not that it was a violation of BLP. Furthermore, the paragraph speaks of the election so the widely published and RS material I added is highly relevant to that article as it challenges the allegations as false and demonstrates that the people of Alabama continue to support their candidate. Removing it made it UNDUE and POV and that is what was noncompliant with BLP policy which states that NPOV must be strictly adhered to (not to mention the editor who reverted it is under an AE TB involving Trump broadly construed). 20:04, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Whether or not the text about a single poll should be included, it was a direct violation of DS. And, it is a far, far stretch to call its omission a BLP issue or a violation of a Trump TB. Why don't you take this to Talk instead of an admin's page or my page? O3000 (talk) 20:13, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Direct me to the notice, please, because it is not on the top of the page in edit view on that TP, and should be. 20:17, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

That's where I copied it from. Search for some of the text. O3000 (talk) 20:23, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Crowds on Demand article

Please join me at Talk:Crowds on Demand for a discussion of your revert of my edit of the article. Thanks. -JohnAlbertRigali (talk) 03:10, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Origin of term Palestine

If a quote by Gingrich refuting the legitimacy of the term "Palestinian" are acceptable, then my edit was a valid counterpoint and you should not have removed it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BobMcK (talk • contribs) 10:57, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

It states the claim from Gingrich is controversial. But you added a statement in Wikivoice claiming Gingrich was incorrect referencing Misplaced Pages as a source. Misplaced Pages is not a reliable source and it is not up to us to correct misstatements by others. O3000 (talk) 12:12, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Alert

Please carefully read this information:

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding all edits about, and all pages related to post-1932 politics of the United States and closely related people, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

— Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 08:25, 22 January 2018 (UTC)Template:Z33

Thanks. You've been busy this morning.:) O3000 (talk) 12:38, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

not a sock

old account got banned for having the word "boobs" in it

Yes, I see that. However, you are edit-warring and have a conflict of interest as well as adding info without sources WP:IRS WP:OR O3000 (talk) 14:05, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Du erhältst einen Orden!

	Der Diplomatenorden
	I love your Opinion. Otherwise, it´s useless, and no one wins. Umweltheizung - Effizienzfetischist 01:57, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

I meant it to be cooling, not heating. But, what do I know. O3000 (talk) 01:59, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Can I ask, why do you keep removing my corrections to the wiki pages?

Dear Co-Editor,

I admire your desire to edit the public encyclopedia of the internet about the same topics I'm also interested in.

In the recent times, Google findings for the work liberal-fascist and liberal fascism is often relating to the following two sites: https://en.wikipedia.org/Liberal_Fascism and https://en.wikipedia.org/Left-wing_fascism

As you may know the political term of liberal-fascism does not exist and it is very misleading for the average John Doe to recognise and understand and make a difference between left-winged political forces and the far-right ones (referred also as fascism). Can I ask on what study do you keep removing a correction to the pages that will make the average John Doe more informed about the politically correct study? Or your plan is to make the people uninformed on purpose?

B.R.: Imre — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bertalanimre (talk • contribs) 13:42, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is built upon reliable sources. You are providing no sources for your edits. This is called original research and is against WP guidelines. An important guideline is verifiability . Verifiability is more important than "truth". We document. We don't declare truths. I realize our guidelines can seem arcane. But, they are necessary to present a neutral point of view. I posted a welcome on your talk page. I suggest you read through some of the links. O3000 (talk) 13:54, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your help and guidance. I appreciate you explained the reason and therefore, providing me something I can relate to when I'll edit an article. I'll do search for a validated source for the principals I've tried to explain, but you'll have to understand that providing a source to a non-existing term is quite hard to do since it is, well... not existing. I'll still try my best to link and mark a good source for the term, but please keep in mind, that the thoughts written in the articles are coming from experts from the field but certainly they have not created any doctoral about the topic, it is just simply common sense. Tha main reason is why I've tried to edit the pages is the fact that many people uses them to prove their "truth" even tho the pages are not explaining them. Only because the names are misleading.

Thank you for your help again.

Bertalanimre (talk) 15:30, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

Please be advised..

...that your groundless accusations that I was casting aspersions at Trump-Russia dossier are not conducive to civil discourse or a collegial environment for that matter. I suggest you read the entire discussion. You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. The material other editors have politely asked to be included is as worthy of inclusion as all the other material that was included in the article...most of which is noncompliant with NPOV. The latter is not an aspersion, it is a fact. 22:43, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

From your last two posts: AN/I, article "owners", aggressiveness shown in keeping well-sourced information out of this article is very disconcerting, double-standard (and noncompliance with NPOV) is quite disconcerting, DS, DIDNTHEARTHAT, IDONTLIKEIT, disruptive. This is casting aspersions and is not useful. And your opinions are not facts. Stay off of my talk page. O3000 (talk) 22:46, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

I actually can come here to advise you of an issue. Stop casting aspersions against me when you know nothing about what you're saying. Your behavior actually proves my point. Good day. 22:49, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Stay off my talk page. O3000 (talk) 22:51, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally#RfC:_Should_the_article_include_mention_of_Trump/Pence_signs?

Hi Objective3000. Just a quick note to say I have closed a request for comment you initiated, at Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally#RfC:_Should_the_article_include_mention_of_Trump/Pence_signs?. Apologies for the delay in closing this discussion, there's a backlog of RFC closure requests which I'm tackling as best I can. Regards, Fish+Karate 14:24, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Many thanks. O3000 (talk) 14:48, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Revision 827543062 Gun Violence:Domestic Violence

Hello,

I cannot address everything I edited at the moment. However, here a few arguments:

First, Mother Jones not a reliable source. The article "10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down" is an argument with a confirmation bias. The article is not a research study. If you wish to include the data sited in the article then you should review and then cite each credible source. "10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down" presents 10 ideas and selects information to support it's conclusion omitting any evidence to the contrary. Also, the article cites itself to support some of it's claims, which is yet again confirmation bias.

Example of misrepresentation of a pro-gun arguement.

Myth #7: Guns make women safer. Fact-check: In 2013, more than 5 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers. • A woman’s chances of being killed by her abuser increase more than 5 times if he has access to a gun. • One study found that women in states with higher gun ownership rates were 4.9 times more likely to be murdered by a gun than women in states with lower gun ownership rates.

The pro-gun argument is not that simply the presence of guns makes women safe, but that women in possession whom are properly trained with guns may be safer. In none of these instances is it explicitly stated that women are in possession of guns. Only that women around guns are more likely to be shot, similar to stating that a person that is on a boat is more likely to drown.  

As for the other edits, We can address them as we go. At the moment this is all I can address. Thanks for reading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ImprudentDiscourse (talk • contribs) 21:39, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

I realize you are a new editor. If you enter as a new editor and immediately make six deletions to an article, you're likely to have your changes reverted. Even if you are an established editor, this is likely to occur. Misplaced Pages is based on consensus. I suggest taking this to the article's talk page, where you can receive input from those that have spent time editing the article. I am not one of those editors. I would say that in the one case you mentioned here, the correct move would be to change the source to the underlying study. That is, correct the section instead of removing it. I have added a welcome message to your talk page which contains valuable links to Misplaced Pages's rather arcane policies and guidelines. O3000 (talk) 21:56, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Racial views of Donald Trump:

I am not a huge fan of it either, kind of a pretty weak argument on the conflicts of interest. Just trying to get different points of view on it, and that was an argument made by the supporters. Thanks for the linking though, didn't know they had an article. PackMecEng (talk) 02:02, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

• That it is verified isn't a reason to keep it. There's also editorial judgment; not everything that is reported needs to be included. Nor do we always need "different points of view"--the argument was weak and smacked of racism, so why should an encyclopedia give it attention? Drmies (talk) 02:04, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for stalking. I was about to rvt and take to talk. But, 1RR. O3000 (talk) 02:06, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

O3000 I would be up for self-revert and going to talk if you would prefer. PackMecEng (talk) 02:10, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Hoping you would say that.:} Cheers. O3000 (talk) 02:14, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Notice

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is ScratchMarshall promoting conspiracy theories. - MrX 🖋 18:23, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Precious

Misplaced Pages game

Thank you for illustrating a strategy table, for helping to a neutral point of view, even for difficult topics such as Las Vegas shooting, for "WP must be honest in its presentation of any subject.", for retiring when that seems in danger, - "ancient mind", you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:44, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Many thanks Gerda. On the whole, far more pleasant to wake up to than an ANI notice.:) O3000 (talk) 15:09, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Please revert your edition

Please revert your edition, especially concerning the discription of Trump´s health by doctor Jackson. This wording now is slanderous. You should be aware of this. --Zbrnajsem (talk) 11:12, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

If you wish to convince someone of anything, you are going about it the wrong way. You have violated the consensus required and WP:1RR restrictions at the top of the page several times and can be summarily blocked by any admin. That aside, edit-warring and threatening simply doesn’t work. If you wish to gain consensus for a change, then present your case. Explain why you think the rank belongs in the article and why you think "effusive" doesn’t. O3000 (talk) 11:17, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

FYI "practicing politics" is a line from Piano Man (song). --NeilN 19:34, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Yep, probably should have included that. Of course, that makes his comment no less uncivil. Not that there is anything rare about incivility on DS TPs.:) And thanks for Zbrnajsem block. O3000 (talk) 19:42, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Someone with a clue

This is the smartest thing I have read in awhile. You may be interested in this page which keeps track of all on-going discussions on terrorism-related articles. Then again, you may also want to stay far away as possible given how toxic these discussions tend to be!TheGracefulSlick (talk) 01:50, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Many thanks. Although I thought you might be talking about that awful song.:) I’ll peek in on that page. I’m aware there has been a long-running discussion about NOTNEWS as it’s on my watch; but I’ve avoided reading it. Should probably look at that too. As for the article on a mentally challenged person running into a crowd in Münster, somehow that doesn’t seem to match the encyclopedic relevance of a city founded by Charlemagne.:) O3000 (talk) 02:02, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Dismissal of James Comey

Hello. Your edit to Dismissal of James Comey is in violation of 1RR.

1. 12:20, 7 April 2018 – first revert of the material
2. 00:50, 9 April 2018 – second revert
3. 02:18, 9 April 2018 – third revert and the second one within a 24-hour period.

Please self-revert and start a discussion on the article talk page. Politrukki (talk) 21:31, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the warning. But, my second revert was a reversion of a 1RR vio, and the editor was blocked and TBanned. O3000 (talk) 21:36, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

You are most welcome. There's no exemption for reverting edits made in violation of 1RR. WP:BANREVERT or WP:3RRNO#EX3 only apply to edits made in violation of a ban, or to edits by socks of blocked/banned users. An edit made before the ban has been imposed obviously cannot violate that ban.

I fixed the content, BTW. You may want to review the edit if you have not already done so. Politrukki (talk) 19:47, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

I was one of several editors cleaning up after the editor on multiple articles as they continued making violations even after being aware of the AE complaint. Which is why it was such a quick ban. It was my determination that it was in the best interests of the project to remove a 1RR vio which, in my mind, rose to the level of vandalism in the spirit of the rules. O3000 (talk) 20:00, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

In this specific instance you could have just made few modifications to the content instead of making a wholesale revert (as a side note, in articles with consensus provisions it's not an option if a third party has intervened). Even though you did not know it, you were actually doing a sock's bidding. I'm referring to this edit by an editor who was later blocked for socking. While you think you were reverting vandalism, 1RR violations are not vandalism per se. You need to understand this if you want to avoid sanctions. Bye. Politrukki (talk) 12:46, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Been here ten years and have yet to be sanctioned, despite heavy participation in DS articles. O3000 (talk) 12:57, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

unsigned

How do you add the unsigned template? I frequently forget to add my signature, even thought most pages explicitly remind me to, and this shortcut would be good to know. Thanks in advance. Mr Ernie (talk) 00:33, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Common error. To add for yourself, just edit in ~~~~. For someone else: "{{subst:unsigned2|date|username or ip}}". You can leave out the date. O3000 (talk) 00:36, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

@Mr Ernie: There's also a very handy script you can import importScript('User:Anomie/unsignedhelper.js'); // Linkback: ] which adds an unsigned link button to the editing interface. When clicked, it will automatically add the template and fill in the editor name and time of the last edit on the page. --NeilN 01:06, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

removed tags

This edit removed the inline tags. The concerns are not yet addressed. Restore them. -- Netoholic @ 18:34, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

You will find that a less combative nature is likely to result in a greater acceptance of your input. We are all volunteers. O3000 (talk) 21:01, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Removing tags used to indicate a problem with a source which YOU added seems combative and spiteful to me. That you haven't done the courtesy of replacing them and instead take issue with my tone, is also an indication of combativeness. -- Netoholic @ 21:15, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

A pity you feel that way. You may have the last word. Respond with an appropriate insult. O3000 (talk) 21:24, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

I appreciate the volunteer work you do on Misplaced Pages. I also appreciate that you brought a new source to that article when most others are content to just debate on the talk page. I would appreciate it if you put back the inline tags, until we find a good solution that is satisfactory (or at least tolerable) to all views. -- Netoholic @ 21:31, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Actually, I removed them by accident and then went out for a coupla hours. If you add them back, I won't make a complaint off of the TP. But, they are drive-by tags with no rationale. Not only is the cite valid, but WP:NOTBLUE. And the article is SYNTH without such facts. O3000 (talk) 21:46, 21 May 2018 (UTC)