| Revision as of 05:15, 28 May 2018 editSahansdal (talk | contribs)250 edits →The Gospel of Judas: new section← Previous edit | Revision as of 05:21, 28 May 2018 edit undoSahansdal (talk | contribs)250 edits →Jesus did not turn water into wine, or drink it at the Last SupperNext edit → | ||
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| :::::::: In this instance, ποτήριον refers to the third cup of the ]. We can be assured that this Seder's four cups were not grape juice. ] (]) 20:11, 15 March 2018 (UTC) | :::::::: In this instance, ποτήριον refers to the third cup of the ]. We can be assured that this Seder's four cups were not grape juice. ] (]) 20:11, 15 March 2018 (UTC) | ||
| {{outdent}}I'm not about to tell this pastor anything. If you saw his photo, you'd probably be afraid of him too.— ] • ] • ] • 21:12, 15 March 2018 (UTC) | {{outdent}}I'm not about to tell this pastor anything. If you saw his photo, you'd probably be afraid of him too.— ] • ] • ] • 21:12, 15 March 2018 (UTC) | ||
| Don't see how debating how many angels can dance on a pinhead is productive. The New Testament is not a record. It is Church propaganda.<ref>http://www.amazon.com/James-Brother-Jesus-Unlocking-Christianity/dp/014025773X/ref=pd_sim_b_2</ref> ] (]) 05:21, 28 May 2018 (UTC) | |||
| == When was the Arrival of Christianity in Ireland == | == When was the Arrival of Christianity in Ireland == | ||
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Input requested on use of "orthodox"
At Pentecostalism, there is currently a discussion on whether it is appropriate to describe mainstream Christians/theology as "orthodox". Input would be appreciated. Ltwin (talk)
Rfc posted at Bible and violence, please comment
Talk:The_Bible_and_violence#Rfc
Biblical canon
There is something fishy going on at Biblical canon, but I'm not sure what. Tgeorgescu (talk) 17:06, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
Talk:David Meade (author)
The article David Meade (author) is currently a GA article nominee and I’m ready for it to be reviewed. If anybody would like to review it, feel free to do so. —LovelyGirl7 talk 16:55, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
Is faith healing a form of pseudo-science (round 2)
Here we go again. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:48, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
Misplaced Pages:Peer review/Heritage USA/archive1
If anybody would like to give feedback on the article, feel free to do so at Misplaced Pages:Peer review/Heritage USA/archive1. —LovelyGirl7 talk 20:39, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
Easter etc on Selected anniversaries
Last year, due to increasing quality requirements, we were unable to feature many of the Christian holidays leading up to Easter on the Main Page via WP:Selected anniversaries. In the intervening period, it doesn't appear that the articles have improved much. To avoid having these omitted again, please improve the following articles
There may be others. As I am not Christian, I don't know what other days there are. (And preemptively, before someone replies with "SOFIXIT", I already saved Ash Wednesday; that's the one freebie you get.) Thank you. —howcheng {chat} 23:20, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
Persecution of Eastern Orthodox Christians listed at Requested moves
A requested move discussion has been initiated for Persecution of Eastern Orthodox Christians to be moved to Anti-Eastern Orthodox sentiment. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. Sorabino (talk) 21:25, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
Copyediting/other improvements at Karl Lehmann
I am working to improve this article for a frontpage Recent Death appearance, and would welcome copyediting for language and as well as other improvements. Iselilja (talk) 19:16, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
Jesus did not turn water into wine, or drink it at the Last Supper
It doesn't seem to be online, but a newspaper article written by a pastor says the Greek word used for wine in all instances where Jesus drank it refers to unfermented grape juice, and the Greek word used in all instances where the Bible warns against getting drunk refers to fermented wine. Nothing is said about this idea in Misplaced Pages, at least where I have looked so far. I don't know precisely how one would go about proving his statement or adding it to the related articles.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 19:45, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
- Controversial. See Purified Translation of the Bible and follow the links to the references. For an online article see . Martin of Sheffield (talk) 20:40, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
- That one article says nothing about the two different Greek words. I have to admit if what the pastor said were true there would have been grape juice used for Communion long before Thomas Bramwell Welch made it possible.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:55, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
- I found this which makes the same claim as the pastor. And although it is unreferenced, Alcohol in the Bible came up in my search and makes the claim that the word can mean alcoholic.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 14:51, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
- Great. After the pastor claimed Jesus turned the water into tirosh, this says oinos.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 14:56, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
- Misplaced Pages requires Reliables Sources. The sources given above fall far short of the required academic standard. The mere fact that information can be found on internet, or even in books published by little-known publishing houses, is not sufficient to justify its inclusion in an article. Even the possesion of degrees from a highly-respected university does not ensure that an author is always a reliable source (see John M. Allegro). In this case, a standard bible dictionary states that while some commentators argued that tirosh ("must" or "vino nuevo") was not alchoholic, it "takes away judgement" in Hosea 4:11 and its NT equivalent gléukos is used in Acts 2 when the apostles are accused of being drunk on new wine. It also points out that fermentation sets in very rapidly within six hours of pressing the grapes and concludes that the academic consensus is that the terms translated "wine" all refer to an alchoholic drink.(Diccionario Ilustrado de la Biblia - Ed. Caribe 1977) This theory is too far fetched to be worth mentioning in an article. — Jpacobb (talk) 19:06, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
- It's because some Christians are so entirely invested in teetotalism (see Christian views on alcohol) as an outgrowth of the Temperance movement, that they want to impose that view on both scripture and Christ. See http://babylonbee.com/news/bottle-of-welchs-grape-juice-discovered-near-site-of-last-supper/ for a humorous view of that. Unless a reliable biblical studies expert weighs-in on it, I would simply avoid it in any articles. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:18, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
- The word in the Wedding at Cana narrative is wine (Strong's 3631, οἶνος).
- The word given in the Last Supper narrative of all synoptical gospels (Matthew 26:27, Mark 14:23, Luke 22:17) is cup (Strong's 4221, ποτήριον), not wine. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 20:04, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
- In this instance, ποτήριον refers to the third cup of the Passover Seder. We can be assured that this Seder's four cups were not grape juice. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:11, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
- It's because some Christians are so entirely invested in teetotalism (see Christian views on alcohol) as an outgrowth of the Temperance movement, that they want to impose that view on both scripture and Christ. See http://babylonbee.com/news/bottle-of-welchs-grape-juice-discovered-near-site-of-last-supper/ for a humorous view of that. Unless a reliable biblical studies expert weighs-in on it, I would simply avoid it in any articles. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:18, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
- Misplaced Pages requires Reliables Sources. The sources given above fall far short of the required academic standard. The mere fact that information can be found on internet, or even in books published by little-known publishing houses, is not sufficient to justify its inclusion in an article. Even the possesion of degrees from a highly-respected university does not ensure that an author is always a reliable source (see John M. Allegro). In this case, a standard bible dictionary states that while some commentators argued that tirosh ("must" or "vino nuevo") was not alchoholic, it "takes away judgement" in Hosea 4:11 and its NT equivalent gléukos is used in Acts 2 when the apostles are accused of being drunk on new wine. It also points out that fermentation sets in very rapidly within six hours of pressing the grapes and concludes that the academic consensus is that the terms translated "wine" all refer to an alchoholic drink.(Diccionario Ilustrado de la Biblia - Ed. Caribe 1977) This theory is too far fetched to be worth mentioning in an article. — Jpacobb (talk) 19:06, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
- Great. After the pastor claimed Jesus turned the water into tirosh, this says oinos.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 14:56, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
- I found this which makes the same claim as the pastor. And although it is unreferenced, Alcohol in the Bible came up in my search and makes the claim that the word can mean alcoholic.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 14:51, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
- That one article says nothing about the two different Greek words. I have to admit if what the pastor said were true there would have been grape juice used for Communion long before Thomas Bramwell Welch made it possible.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:55, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
I'm not about to tell this pastor anything. If you saw his photo, you'd probably be afraid of him too.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 21:12, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
Don't see how debating how many angels can dance on a pinhead is productive. The New Testament is not a record. It is Church propaganda. Sahansdal (talk) 05:21, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
When was the Arrival of Christianity in Ireland
A specific date or as specific as is known, cited, and or handmedowned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:3026:20F:E400:E8D6:43D3:2B93:7A07 (talk) 03:39, 18 March 2018 (UTC)
The Apostles
Should the experimental punk rock band who developed within the confines of the 1980s anarcho-punk scene in the UK really be top-article here? I would more expect to arrive at Apostle (disambiguation), Apostles or Apostle. Not sure which policies and guidelines apply, though. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:11, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
- No — JudeccaXIII (talk) 16:57, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
Done I moved the page and updated all incoming links. Daask (talk) 21:37, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
Proposal for a new infobox
I'm thinking about creating a new infobox template, (potentially) called Infobox church office. While I have mainly Catholic offices in mind, I think it can be used for Anglican ones as well, and potentially others, such as Latter-day Saint ones. I envision it being something of a cross between {{Infobox organization}} and {{Infobox official post}}, except customized to allow parameter labels and template designs that are specific to a given church. I imagine it being used as the primary infobox on articles about specific positions, like Cardinal Vicar and Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (Catholic), and Archdeacon of Westminster (Anglian). It would be able to accommodate offices held by individuals, such as Cardinal Vicar, as well as those that are collective bodies, such as the Congregations. It would not be used for general positions, like periodeutes or hierodeacon. What do people think of this? Ergo Sum 03:26, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
- What I think of this is that you have created this thread without mentioning that you had already started similar threads elsewhere, contrary to WP:MULTI. The earliest that I can find is at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Catholicism#Proposal for a new infobox. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 07:25, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- I have long thought that guideline to be lacking in consideration and foresight. I'm sorry if my contravention of it disturbed you. Ergo Sum 11:21, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
Twelve Apostles of Ireland Challenge
The Twelve Apostles of Ireland Challenge is an edition competition seeking to create and improve articles on the Twelve Apostles of Ireland. Anyone in any language can subscribe and collaborate on building or translating articles relating to the Twelve Apostles. Medals and real icons will be rewarded to the winners. To participate, one just needs to subscribe here and start collaborating. Dia Duit! Leefeni de Karik (talk) 20:57, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
Missing topic Draft:New Testament theology
This seems to be notable but missing. I'm interested in seeing if this can be turned into a good page. Legacypac (talk) 19:39, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
- It will be a very tricky one: a fairly common question is whether there is A theology of the New Testament or only theologies of Matthew, Mark, Luke & John etc... (See for example Alan Richardson's justification of the title of his An Introduction to the Theology of the New Testament (SCM - 1961, pp. 9ff) — Jpacobb (talk) 23:57, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
Mass page moves for episcopal conference articles
User:Chicbyaccident on 30 March 2018 indiscriminately moved several articles on episcopal conferences to titles with the format 'Episcopal Conference of X'. This is in spite of the said user's proposal to standardise 'Episcopal Conference of X' being explicitly rejected. Moreover, the user has even cited this failed proposal as the reason for some of the page moves. I have reverted many of the page moves, but it would be good to have more eyes go over them. There was a relevant discussion at: Category talk:Episcopal conferences#Standardisation. The Discoverer (talk) 18:41, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
- I'm hoping to be look through the discussions to be better informed. However, at the moment I'm strongly inclined to stick to WP:COMMONNAME over WP:CONSISTENCY on these articles and suggest that we ask that we have an administrator revert all of these page moves. Do others agree? Daask (talk) 14:25, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- I wholeheartedly agree that WP:COMMONNAME is the common-sense choice over WP:CONSISTENCY in this case. However, it will not be necessary to ask for a mass reversion, because I've already moved many or most of the pages. What would be desirable is for other editors to go over those that haven't been reverted and take a call on whether reversion is needed. The Discoverer (talk) 16:17, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
- The log of page moves can be found at Special:Log/Chicbyaccident?offset=20180330011238 Daask (talk) 22:31, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
- I wholeheartedly agree that WP:COMMONNAME is the common-sense choice over WP:CONSISTENCY in this case. However, it will not be necessary to ask for a mass reversion, because I've already moved many or most of the pages. What would be desirable is for other editors to go over those that haven't been reverted and take a call on whether reversion is needed. The Discoverer (talk) 16:17, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
ANI Thread Related to this WikiProject
Just an FYI. Seems proper to notify the WikiProject that there's a lengthy back and forth on ANI about the project and your newsletter. GMG 20:12, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
- The topic is closed now as resolved on the talk page of the article in question. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:36, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
Brethren dab page
Questions have been raised about how best to format Brethren (religious group) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), which is essentially a dab page that also lists the "family trees" of various denominations known as Brethren. I'm inclined to leave it more or less the way it is, but that's a far cry from MOS:DAB. Given this irregularity, I welcome the opinion of other editors on that article talk page. Daask (talk) 12:50, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
Ignatius of Antioch
There is currently a discussion concerning the trustworthiness of websites NewAdvent and earlychristianwritings/jewishwritings as a source. Additional input on the matter would be greatly appreciated. The discussion is here: Talk:Ignatius_of_Antioch#Catholic_Encyclopedia_and_Ante-Nicene_Fathers. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 01:38, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
Village Pump proposal to delete all Portals
Editors at this project might be interested in the discussion concerning the proposed deletion of all Portals across Misplaced Pages. See Misplaced Pages:Village_pump_(proposals)#RfC:_Ending_the_system_of_portals.Bermicourt (talk) 08:53, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
Yahwistic titles of Jesus
I started a deletion discussion regarding Template:Yahwistic titles of Jesus in Greek on the basis of WP:NPOV. Please consider joining the discussion here. Daask (talk) 00:33, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
Template:Coptic saints vs. Template:Coptic orthodox saints
They are very similar. Wouldn't it make sense to merge them? However, personally, I don't know anything about Coptic saints...--Kohlscheid (talk) 11:47, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
- I have boldly merged them. This defect was the only difference of any note. tahc 13:37, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks a lot, tahc! Best regards--Kohlscheid (talk) 16:18, 28 April 2018 (UTC)
List of Christian heresies
Please see my post at Misplaced Pages:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard#List_of_Christian_heresies. I think some people who watch this page might be interested. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:28, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
WikiProject-related essays and guidelines
I happened across User:Ian.thomson/ChristianityAndNPOV and would like to add a link to it somewhere on Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Christianity. I wanted to check with others on three questions:
- Do others support linking this from a WikiProject page?
- Where should the link go?
- Are there other essays similar in sentiment or relevance to this WikiProject that I should be aware of or might be linked to as well?
Thanks. Daask (talk) 17:51, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
- I think it's a noble effort by Ian, but IMO it needs a lot of editing by project members to make it representative of the project.
- If this essay gets promoted to wikiproject advice, then IMO it should become part of a "Christianity Manual of Style" or a "Christianity Editing Guideline" similar to MILHIST and WP Med.– Lionel 04:30, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
Ichthus May 2018 is available
- Project News: An admin is admonished
- Achievements: Ralph Abernathy promoted
- Featured article: Missionaries in the rainforest
- Did You Know: Ioan C. Filitti sentenced to death
- * Read this Ichthus in full * Get Ichthus delivered to your Talkpage * – Lionel 11:59, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
AfD on David McAfee
I am posting this here as the article concerning David McAfee, a modern critic of Christianity, has been nominated for deletion. Any feedback would be appreciated, ~~
- For convenience, David McAfee. Ltwin (talk) 20:24, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
The Color Blue
Sky Blue Sapphire blue (Ancient Israeli pavement,) Lapis Lazuli blue (Ancient Babylonian pavement) British royal blue (British Empire's pavement) Russian blue American blue
Open for discussion Millennian (talk) 16:28, 13 May 2018 (UTC) Millennian.
United States pro-life movement listed at Requested moves (rename article)
A Requested move discussion (rename article) has been initiated for United States pro-life movement. Please join the discussion here. Last month 6,600 people read this article!!! – Lionel 10:14, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
The Gospel of Judas
I have expertise on the Gospel of Judas, but not as a source acceptable for citation on Wiki. I have much to contribute to improve this article, and seek help doing so. Right now there is no expert opinion there at all. All cited sources in the article are orthodox apologists who do not have a clue about genuine gnostic thought. I, on the other hand, practice it (mysticism) daily, and have for 40 years. Anyone interested in being involved can look up my entry under the Gospel of Judas talk page or see my website. Sahansdal (talk) 05:15, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
- http://www.amazon.com/James-Brother-Jesus-Unlocking-Christianity/dp/014025773X/ref=pd_sim_b_2
- https://judaswasjames.com/