Talk:Mustafa Kemal Atatürk: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 08:23, 9 November 2006 edit72.69.86.39 (talk) →What was his position??← Previous edit		Revision as of 08:24, 9 November 2006 edit undo72.69.86.39 (talk) →No mention of genocide Next edit →
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	:I was going to post the same thing, this article seems overly positive. Wasn't Ataturk the president or PM when the genocides occured? The ] for example. --] 20:50, 8 November 2006 (UTC)		:I was going to post the same thing, this article seems overly positive. Wasn't Ataturk the president or PM when the genocides occured? The ] for example. --] 20:50, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

			wtf? u have concerns discussions about the the armenian genoicide go do that on the appropriate page not on ataturk's page. i dont c any turks discussing how many turks had died by armenians in the, say, "Armenia" page. nor i c any turks trying to put information about how greek army, not greeks but an actual army, murdered turks after they invaded izmir on the mythology page.
			go get a life!
			Of course there wont be anything related to the so called "genocide". This is not the page dummies
			ProudTurk

	==What was his position??==		==What was his position??==

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Islamic Fundamentalism

I hear that the fundamentalists strongly criticize Mustafa Kemal. I recall a rap by Soldiers of Allah proclaiming him to be a "so called hero". Any info? Extremists doesn't like him because Atatürk removed Islamic State System and make a law based system that muslims and non muslims are 100% equal.

His family?

I think we should mention Atatürk's family somewhere in this article. Perhaps we could title the section "personal life" or something along those lines. Then we can mention his wife (was he married twice?) and his children, including Sabiha Gökçen—who isn't mentioned in this article at all. I'll try to do some research on his family, and add the section if there are no objections (unless someone beats me too it). —Khoi khoi 05:54, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I agree with your suggestion and I was planning to add something in that line when I have the time. With a quick check, Atatürk had at least eight adopted children (Afet İnan, Sabiha Gökçen, Fikriye, Ülkü, Nebile, Rukiye, Zehra, and Mustafa). So please go on and I will try to help you in the process. Regards, Atilim Gunes Baydin 16:55, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I've added the section. —Khoi khoi 19:08, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Not to mention his menagerie called Abdul.

great article

one of the better articles i've seen on wikipedia. surprisingly unbiased. i was expecting the usual wiki-marx drivel

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.140.5.249 (talk) 06:53, 11 October 2006.

Problematic image caption

I am removing the mention of "32 kings and 62 presidents" from the image caption of USSR reception near section "international relations", as this seems to be a folk legend circulating around Turkish forums and I could not find any reliable source confirming this. Please keep the caption that way until these numbers can be proved. And the names of every single one of these monarchs and leaders should be listable, for such a great occasion. Atilim Gunes Baydin 21:26, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Good idea. To quote from Misplaced Pages:V#Burden of evidence:

“

Be careful not to err too far on the side of not upsetting other editors by leaving unsourced information in articles for too long, or at all in the case of information about living people. Jimmy Wales has said of this: "I can NOT emphasize this enough. There seems to be a terrible bias among some editors that some sort of random speculative 'I heard it somewhere' pseudo information is to be tagged with a 'needs a cite' tag. Wrong. It should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced. This is true of all information, but it is particularly true of negative information about living persons."

”

So, if reliable sources are brought forth, the information can be added. If not, then it can't. —Khoi khoi 21:54, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Hagiographic

Overtly hagiographic, this needs to change and change soon.

No mention of genocide

There is no mention in the entire article of Armenian Genocide or the lesser-known Hellenic Genocide which are contemporary with Mustafa Kemal's rule and political development. Admittedly these issues are sensitive (see Orhan Pamuk's career), but to omit them altogether is to take a non-neutral stance. User:erxnmedia.

So, do you think we need to mention the so called Armenian Genocide or the Hellenic Genocide in all articles about all Turks who lived in the first quarter of the 20th century?--Hattusili 08:07, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I was going to post the same thing, this article seems overly positive. Wasn't Ataturk the president or PM when the genocides occured? The Pontic Greek Genocide for example. --AW 20:50, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

wtf? u have concerns discussions about the the armenian genoicide go do that on the appropriate page not on ataturk's page. i dont c any turks discussing how many turks had died by armenians in the, say, "Armenia" page. nor i c any turks trying to put information about how greek army, not greeks but an actual army, murdered turks after they invaded izmir on the mythology page. go get a life! Of course there wont be anything related to the so called "genocide". This is not the page dummies ProudTurk

What was his position??

What did he do between 1921 (when he was pres) and 1923 (when he was PM). Commander of the military? That should be more explicit, it's sort of hard to follow. His positions in earlier years should be mentioned as well, they are sort of spotty --AW 21:25, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing out. I can try to improve the coverage of those periods when I hopefully have the time in the near future. It would be great to see these points getting improved by other users too. Atilim Gunes Baydin 22:18, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I just don't know enough to do it. I think saying what official positions he held would be good. --AW 22:19, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

What is the reference that he was a freemason?

This article was tagged with a Turkish Freemasons category. What is the reference to this information? Aknxy 21:56, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

That claim is definitely unsourced. I removed it now but I'm pretty sure that some other loser (see: personal attack) will add that again in the future. Because people are interested in such stuff here: unsourced labelings and accusations to the biography articles, warring about former names of cities on place articles and so on. Regards, Atilim Gunes Baydin 22:14, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Saying someone is a Mason is hardly a personal attack. --AW 22:17, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

No, you got me wrong! I'm the one making the attack by using the word "loser" for an editor. That was meant to be a joke. Cheers, Atilim Gunes Baydin 22:20, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh ok, my apologies. It's hard to tell sometimes! --AW 22:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

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