Talk:Lyndon LaRouche: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 01:31, 28 March 2019 editRick Jelliffe (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users9,559 edits Talk about Designation as Conspiracy Theorist← Previous edit		Revision as of 01:52, 28 March 2019 edit undoRick Jelliffe (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users9,559 edits Convicted FraudsterNext edit →
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	I am sure that this will not please devotees and followers of Mr LaRouche, however please note that I have put this in the controversies section, to emphasize that the fact being reported is that he was (nearly universally) regarded as a conspiracy theorist, not that the article is asserting that he was.		I am sure that this will not please devotees and followers of Mr LaRouche, however please note that I have put this in the controversies section, to emphasize that the fact being reported is that he was (nearly universally) regarded as a conspiracy theorist, not that the article is asserting that he was.
	That being said, I think the main article sanitizes the views of his opponents, and is in danger of not having a NPOV by cherrypicking and avoiding the more lurid claims about him and the more outrageous quotes from him that would tend to cast him in a more dubious light.		That being said, I think the main article sanitizes the views of his opponents, and is in danger of not having a NPOV by cherrypicking and avoiding the more lurid claims about him and the more outrageous quotes from him that would tend to cast him in a more dubious light.
			] (]) 01:52, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

			==Convicted Fraudster==
			I have added "convicted fraudster" to the first paragraph with a link to the relevant wikipedia page.
			That someone was sentenced to 15 years for fraud is a critical and interesting part of their biography. And it is vital information in assessing their activities and approach and their treatment. That this event is important enough to have its own Misplaced Pages page shows its importance and relevance. That he actually served, as did numerous others, is not in dispute. That he failed on numerous appeals and attempts at exoneration including three appeals to the Supreme Court indicates the soundness of the legal basis of the conviction under the American legal system.
			The article in general seeks to portray Mr LaRouche as a respectable, respected citizen (whats with that birthday party claim?) with ideosyncratic views; however this portrait is misleadingly incomplete without stating upfront that he was a convicted criminal (whether you believe this fair or not) whatever else he was.
			] (]) 01:52, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

	== Time to clean up LaRouche entry. ==		== Time to clean up LaRouche entry. ==

Revision as of 01:52, 28 March 2019

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LaRouche lived all his adult life in New York (1953–1983) or Virginia (1983–present), which means the two major newspapers of record are The New York Times and The Washington Post. Both have written extensively about him, including several extended investigative and analysis pieces from the 1970s to the 2000s. These articles provide the structure of much of this article—in that we highlight what they highlight. For their archives on LaRouche see below. For the books we use see here.

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Mintz, John. "The Cult Controversy", The Washington Post, includes a series on LaRouche

Designation as Conspiracy Theorist

I have added a section under Controversy Designation as Conspiracy theorist which contains five credible references to him as a conspiracy theorist. When all of your MSM obituaries (including by Fox News) and academics etc state this as the key attribute, it is not acceptable that the Misplaced Pages page makes no reference to this. I am sure that this will not please devotees and followers of Mr LaRouche, however please note that I have put this in the controversies section, to emphasize that the fact being reported is that he was (nearly universally) regarded as a conspiracy theorist, not that the article is asserting that he was. That being said, I think the main article sanitizes the views of his opponents, and is in danger of not having a NPOV by cherrypicking and avoiding the more lurid claims about him and the more outrageous quotes from him that would tend to cast him in a more dubious light. Rick Jelliffe (talk) 01:52, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Convicted Fraudster

I have added "convicted fraudster" to the first paragraph with a link to the relevant wikipedia page. That someone was sentenced to 15 years for fraud is a critical and interesting part of their biography. And it is vital information in assessing their activities and approach and their treatment. That this event is important enough to have its own Misplaced Pages page shows its importance and relevance. That he actually served, as did numerous others, is not in dispute. That he failed on numerous appeals and attempts at exoneration including three appeals to the Supreme Court indicates the soundness of the legal basis of the conviction under the American legal system. The article in general seeks to portray Mr LaRouche as a respectable, respected citizen (whats with that birthday party claim?) with ideosyncratic views; however this portrait is misleadingly incomplete without stating upfront that he was a convicted criminal (whether you believe this fair or not) whatever else he was. Rick Jelliffe (talk) 01:52, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Time to clean up LaRouche entry.

There needs to be less needless glorification and more fair and accurate and balanced material on this page. Chip.berlet (talk) 16:09, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Reported Death

I'm seeing people saying on Twitter that LaRouche has died but none of them link to reliable sources saying so; can anyone confirm or not? Cooljeanius (talk) (contribs) 23:09, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Reported by their news service NSIPS.Chip.berlet (talk) 00:55, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Where? How do we confirm that? Still nothing on this from any reputable national news organization that I can see. (the only Google news hit is from the blog "Boing Boing" which sources it to "Twitter." john k (talk) 02:38, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

It would be helpful if you could provide a link to the New Solidarity International News Service report, Chip.berlet. What's available online at this moment does not meet Misplaced Pages's reliable source standards, and we should not be in a rush to update this article unless and until better sources are available. Cullen Let's discuss it 03:02, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

It seems to be true, from Mike Billington of EIR Magazine - https://twitter.com/mobeir2 - but as you say, doesn't yet fit the "Reliable Source" requirements. Cancerward (talk) 04:09, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

That's apparently the Twitter of Michael_Billington_(activist) but is not linked to from elsewhere, so although the death is pretty much a "fact", it's still not good enough for WP now. The account timeline goes back to 15 November 2016 and was created August 2014. I think the text at http://icont.ac/4dQLQ is probably the same as the report mentioned by Chip_Berlet above.Cancerward (talk) 08:20, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Just in case there's any doubt - FB pages of top EIR people filling with condolences. https://www.facebook.com/ted.andromidas and https://www.facebook.com/pat.ruckert ... https://twitter.com/DrMatthewSweet/status/1095599994990546944 Cancerward (talk) 09:29, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Full EIRNS article from Ron Wieczorek https://www.facebook.com/ron.wieczorek/posts/2148746848481759 Cancerward (talk) 21:08, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Good evening everyone, what about this? https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/2/12/1834283/-Lyndon-LaRouche-has-died-but-his-CTs-live-on KJS ml343x (talk) 04:22, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Not a credible source, unfortunately. Says at the top that it's a community post not reviewed by Daily Kos staff, and the article itself is just echoing what some people are saying on Twitter. Wall Screamer (talk) 06:04, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

I am increasingly convinced that LaRouche is dead, but we really must have a reliable source reporting it in order to add it to this article. Misplaced Pages is not a breaking news source. Cullen Let's discuss it 06:09, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

It feels strange to be in a social transitional period where we can get plausible death reports but for there to be a disconnect to not have a statement from his institution or follow up from other media houses. LaRouche has been a monumental figure for decades and I expect broad interest in reports of his death. I confirm, nothing on his organization's website and seemingly nothing except rumors in online channels which report statements from individuals' social media accounts. Blue Rasberry (talk) 15:53, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

I'm shocked by the complete lack of confirmation. This man is iconic, like it or not. --Folengo (talk) 18:12, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

If he hasn't actually died (i.e. the reports are all baseless rumours), then there's nothing for them to confirm. A denial would be a different thing. -- Jack of Oz 21:11, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 February 2019

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Larouche died on Tuesday, February 12, 2019. 2601:2C6:5080:430D:E453:BFA0:8224:DBAC (talk) 04:40, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. DannyS712 (talk) 04:47, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Alas, it does seem there is a reliabilty issue with all LaRouchite information sources. But why does this not extend to the questionable claims by his supporters on other pages about the LaRouchians here on Misplaced Pages?Chip.berlet (talk) 09:20, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Probably because no experienced, uninvolved Misplaced Pages editor has taken a close look at those pages, Chip.berlet. Cullen Let's discuss it 16:02, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

His death has been confirmed in public posts by people inside and favorable to the LaRouche network. Here are some confirmations: . From LaRouchites: https://www.facebook.com/ted.andromidas . https://www.facebook.com/pat.ruckert Chip.berlet (talk) 11:42, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

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