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oden, LAM page

ODEN- I have responded to this user with EACH AND EVERY MESSAGE. Try looking at his talk page for proof of this! I removed his messages because he is harassing me and posting stuff that is not true Try reading my responses on his page. How do you archive a page? I don't want his garbage littering my page. Why did you restore lies to the article on LAM? We are supposed to be able to edit the articles for accuracy. Deathrocker continually posts PERSONAL OPINION and stuff that I've shown repeatedly to be false. Why are you allowing this and constantly blanking my edits?--Blipblip 20:30, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I have responded on your talk page. --Oden 22:49, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Pacino image/Use of fair use image in a living persons biography (infobox)

Is there any rule against fair use images in the infobox or you did it by your own?201.37.247.93

The fair use criteria states that the first requirement is that "No free equivalent is available or could be created that would adequately give the same information. However, if the subject of the photograph still exists, a freely-licensed photograph could be taken." One of the counterexamples in the fair use guideline is: "An image of a living person that merely shows what they look like."

The subject of this photograph still exists and the purpose of an image in the article's infobox is to depict what the person looks like. This is why we have the {{subst:rfu}} tag. Now, if this particular image was attached to a paragraph discussing his acting performance in a specific context and accompanied with a fair-use rationale explaining why it was important to show what he looked like there, this image would be acceptable. Similarly, the image is acceptable to depict the fictional character because it is not replaceable in that context. --Oden 14:06, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but until we can take a free image (almost impossible) that one can stay there, as many others of various artists here, as you can see if you make a tour. It's disgusting and absurd to Misplaced Pages that an article about Pacino do not have a leading image.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.37.247.93 (talk • contribs) 02:55, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

• Many biograhies of living persons have non-free images in the infobox in violation of the fair use criteria, but we are busy tagging them as fast as we can.
• The primary goal of Misplaced Pages is to produce and distribute a free content encyclopedia, and the use of fair use (non-free) images is a limitation. (There's more information at Misplaced Pages:Fair use.)
• It isn't impossible to find a free image of Al Pacino; a quick search on Flickr reveals several privately taken photographs ( ). If you want to you can contact the photographers and ask them to release any of the photographs under a free license.

--Oden 03:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, my point is: the fair use is legal here, otherwise we couldn't make an encyclopedia. The primary goal here is a Misplaced Pages done by everybody who wants do that from all the world. This is the primary goal, acording to the Board. If the primary goal was to be a free content only, fair use would be illegal here. If you don't like it (fair use), you can colaborate in arabic Misplaced Pages, but don't try destroy visual information at the articles, please.

Second, these images you showed are not free, because users have to contact the photographers and ask something. I could ask 'The Informer' production company too, to get a release for free of that image you deleted. None is a free one.

The point is, "free" images has a preference but if we don't get one, we can use a fair use image instead until we have a free one, this is the rule, agree? As I read in the rules, there isn't a prohibition to use fair use images in the infobox, I could use a screenshot of Pacino in "Dog Day Afternoon", for example, right?

Im my opinion, you and others users against fair use here, are trying to destroy Misplaced Pages and closing access to free information, creating your own rules. Discuss it, please. 201.37.247.93 04:10, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

• Whether or not users choose to collaborate in different language versions of Misplaced Pages (such as Arabic) is their personal choice. See also WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA.
• Fair use:
  • A fair use image cannot be used solely to illustrate a living person. (See for instance the counterexamples at the fair use guideline.) The purpose of an image in the article's infobox is to depict what the person looks like. This is why we have the {{subst:rfu}} tag.
  • Now, if this particular image was attached to a paragraph in an article discussing a living persons appearance in a specific context and accompanied with a fair-use rationale explaining why it is important to show what that person looked like there, this image would be acceptable.
  • Similarly, the image is acceptable to depict a fictional character because it is not replaceable in that context.
  • Last of all it is allowed to use a fair use image to depict a dead person, where no free images are known to exist.
• If other articles violate policy, that is grounds for fixing those violations, not for violating the policy in yet another article.
• It is true that there is nothing stopping anyone from asking anyone else to release their copyright. This does not detract from the fact that as long as a person is alive it is not impossible to create a free image.
• Regarding a change in policy, this isn't the place to discuss or propose new policy. Try for instance Misplaced Pages:Images of living people, Misplaced Pages talk:Images, Misplaced Pages talk:Fair use or the Misplaced Pages:Village pump.
• A final note: all editors should remember that editing Misplaced Pages is a privilege, not a right. (See also Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not.)

--Oden 04:49, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if you tought I was not polite, it was not my intention and it isn't, but I maintain my opinion about people who do not like fair use editing here. It's not the place for them, because they do what they can to difficult the free imformation (and I can't wonder why).

Well, The purpose of an image in the article's infobox is to depict what the person looks like. And what is that image (I didn't uploaded it and not placed it there, I just turned curious why you deleted it) doing? Depicting Al Pacino. I'm not discussing the policy, I'm discussing why you deleted it. Is Paul Newman. Harrison Ford, etc infobox images illegal too? I don't think so.

Of course editing is a privilege not a right. And?

But the point is: that image, untill we can find a free one, is obviously legal and accepted by wiki policies, according to the rules. 201.37.247.93 05:18, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I can agree that it is a little difficult to understand this policy, and that it should be written more clearly. (I have also made the mistake of adding a fair use image to a living person's biography.) --Oden 05:29, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I don't think you made the mistake of adding a fair use image to a living person's biography, because, as you said, the rules are not clear and can rise many doubts, as this one. As it turns out, all the whole thing ends in a self-interpretation. So, I think the image can't be deleted until he have a "free" one. There's not a consensus about this fact. The image is only depicting Al as he looks like. Agree? 201.37.247.93 05:47, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

The rules are clear: the fair use criteria (which is policy) states that the first requirement is that "No free equivalent is available or could be created that would adequately give the same information. However, if the subject of the photograph still exists, a freely-licensed photograph could be taken.". However the policy could be more clearly written in order to avoid alot of WikiLawyering (it could simply say: "it is not allowed to use a fair use image just to illustrate what a person looks like as long as they are alive". --Oden 06:48, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Only Much Louder and ShowCause

hi..

umm.. i don't think i was advertising any company there on Only Much Louder. i was just writing the bare basic info i have about them... i don't even work for them, or with them, or anything of the sort.

and likewise with showcause

Yufeeko 19:38, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The articles did not state any reason for notability, see Misplaced Pages:Notability (companies and corporations) (specifically criteria for companies and corporations). You are however encouraged to write on subjects like Indian rock. --Oden 19:42, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

i guess one would need some time to put together that info.. if that be the case, i'll write the thing and then make an article. all those red links on the indian rock page were getting to me. one does need to understand that in india, where rock has a minority status, organizations/people do what they can to promote music. it'd be on the lines of what rolling stone would have started out with, to put it in a roundabout simile. these pages i made were about two of just three major players in the indian rock scene.

but it's okay... what's got to go, has got to go.

--Yufeeko 19:52, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know there aren't any articles about companies that are rock promoters on Misplaced Pages. However articles on people who work as rock promoters and record labels might be treated differently. --Oden 19:58, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

and as far as i know, there aren't any either. but that doesn't mean they don't exist. of the seven mentioned in Indian_rock#Promoters, five of them are registered companies that more-or less follow an open source mode of operation. they're all manned by professionals outside of the music industry (an architect, several engineers, some software techies, a doctor et al), and very often barely make any sort of profit worth mentioning. and why are they companies that do this kind of thing... because, most often, one man can't handle this kind of work alone. as i'd mentioned in that section, these companies handle several tasks simultaneously. and they do this more as a form of recreation than as a form of commercial activity. perhaps this is a situation peculiar to india, or to the Indian subcontinent.

it may not be so in other parts of the world, but ignorance should not be a criterion for making claims that certain things don't exist. --Yufeeko 20:19, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

• You can search for "rock promoter" here on Misplaced Pages, I didn't find any companies among the first ten hits. You will however find the Canadian Association of Promotional Marketing Agencies, but none of the companies listed in that article have any articles of their own.
• Misplaced Pages is not a indiscriminate collection of information, see Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not. --Oden 20:27, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

i am hardly contesting your choice to delete the articles... but one of the few things i remember from my philosophy class was the term appeal to false authority. if i didn't know anything about why swedish girls are allowed to retain their thongs in a clothes line, i wouldn't say anything about it, much less deny the existence of a clothes line. the two articles i started, and which i regret oh so badly, in my humble opinion and that of many other people who have a fair amount of knowledge about rock music in india, were written with an absolutely neutral view point, about companies which satisfy points 1 and 2 of criteria for companies and corporations. again... i stress... i'm not contesting the deletion. but broaden your horizons a bit before you make sweeping statements. --Yufeeko 20:58, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The articles were deleted by Merope (deletion log for "Only Much Louder") and Quarl (deletion log for "ShowCause"). If you feel that they were incorrect you can appeal at Misplaced Pages:Deletion review (see also Misplaced Pages:Undeletion policy). --Oden 21:09, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

what part of "i am hardly contesting your choice to delete the articles" was dificult to understand. but, just based on principle, i shall.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Yufeeko (talk • contribs) 21:16, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

See also Misplaced Pages:Civility and Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks. --Oden 21:24, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

i apologize if i offended you. --Yufeeko 21:47, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Image:FFawcett.jpg

Hi, and thanks for your (?) message. I wonder why people keep cluttering my talk page with all those canned messages (just look at it!) if all I can do is wait for thre image to be deleted. I uploaded it in good faith in 2003 (!), it's a screenshot, it's being used in other articles I didn't even know existed. You tag it and declare it was uploaded after May 2006. The image is from Myra Breckinridge and could easily be put there, but soon someone else will come along and want to remove it from there as well. If it makes you happy, please speedy delete it. Best wishes, <KF> 02:59, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

You keep getting messages because the template says "please notify the uploader". Personally I wonder if the message serves a purpose every time, or if it sometimes just is annoying and supercedes common sense. As for the image it is used to illustrate the image of a living person in violation of the fair use criteria and not being used to illustrate any fictional character in Myra Breckinridge and should be deleted. It also lacks a detailed fair use rationale. --Oden 03:10, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

London After Midnight

Hello. I am a nuetral party in the issue on the LAM article. I have attempted to mediate the two users arguing, and even took both versions of the article and removed both's pov, orginal research and non nuetral wording (both of their slurs and praise).

Deathrocker, as much as i dislike the user, has actually made an effort to work with the user Blip. However, after i explained to Blip the core policys WP:NPOV, WP:CITE, WP:NOR) and other related policys (WP:3RR, WP:NPA, WP:VANDAL and WP:COOL), the user has refused to work with any editors and is blanking large sections of the article, removing other editors work, and generally acting dominant other overs with the attitude of supreriority.

What im asking is if you can speak to the user, having already had contact with him, and discourage him from continuing this behaviour as its damaging the article and the user does not seem prepared to work within the rules and systems of Misplaced Pages, or respect other Wikipedians.

Im sorry to have to ask, but this seems better than revert warring, and better than letting this whole issue branch out to vandalising user pages/talks, other articles, and generally causing a lot of hassle.

Could you also please look over the version i tried to create from Deathrockers version and Blips version and tell me if there is anything i could do to improve the page regardless of the revert warring taking place.

Thanks for the time taken to read this by the way.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.91.34 (talk • contribs) 08:36, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Sure, I'll take a look. --Oden 10:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I have listed the article at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Media, art and literature. --Oden 10:40, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the effort. However, Blip seems determined to not work with anybody on this matter. Ive not even commented on the issue (im not taking sides, my own past with Deathrocker withstanding) and seeing his latest triad, he blatantly refuses to follow Misplaced Pages policy and its mostly a complete slur at myself and Deathrocker.

Can yew please speak to him and make him actually read ] and WP:CIVIL, as i tried to mediate this once, and i dont want to dip my toe in the water to have it ripped apart by one pirana.

Hurleynew.jpg

Hi. Thanks for your message regarding the image above. I am not the original poster of this image on wikipedia, but merely restored it after vandalism where it was replaced with a user's picture. If you believe it to be outside of wikipedia's fair use policy, please feel free to delete it. Kind regards Hongshi 10:18, 21 November 2006 (UTC)