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Before writing a comment please read the comments below, and add yours in the most relevant section, or add a new section if nothing similar exists.193.145.230.3 (talk) 10:34, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Destruction under the Mongol Empire, Genghis Khan

This list is great!

I've noticed that Genghis Khan's and his sons' cruelties are considered a series of genocides, or one. Collectively they are a major one; on par with Hitlerism. See "Destruction under the Mongol Empire". Let me provide a citation from my library soon.

If that is a genocide, or a series of them, this "List of genocides ..." is missing on it (them). Szozdakosvi 22 October 2018

Inclusion of Irish potato famine as intentional genocide

This clearly was not intentional genocide, as compared with, say, Nazi genocides. It was a horrible stain on British rule - a deeply callous act of omission - but it should be included as "democide" rather than genocide. It makes absolutely no sense for Stalin's Terror and Mao's "Great Leap Forward" (20th century crimes) to be excluded from this list, but not the Famine (a 19th century crime). This needs to be removed for the list to be credible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.198.107.144 (talk) 19:51, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

I completely agree with this comment. Under no definition does the Irish Potato Famine count as a genocide. This should be removed immediately — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexpinna (talk • contribs) 14:35, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

its in the blue link next to it there are historians who say its genocide just like the holodomorJack90s15 (talk) 14:44, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

This quote is not the potato famine. In such case, the Highland Potato famine which occurred at the same time should be added to genocides? There are no sources referred to for the details or any of the numbers used. --Alexpinna (talk) 14:48, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

on the notes in the blue link it says The Irish Great Famine/Genocide refers to the British creating a Man-Made famine in Ireland from 1845-1849, causing a steep population drop due to mortality and emigration. It is disputed whether it was a genocide or an unintentional famine by many historians.Jack90s15 (talk) 14:56, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Just like the Holodomor says characterization as a genocide is disputed by some historians.

I will add sources to it to fix situationJack90s15 (talk) 15:16, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 March 2019

This edit request to List of genocides by death toll has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

the Armenian genocide ended in 1917, not 1922 1922 was the collapse of the ottoman empire -7th item on the table Thediamondpiston (talk) 17:03, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

 Comment: According to the Armenian Genocide page, the span of the genocide varies significantly across source to source, but the span used in the infobox is 1915–1923. Unfortunately, the note saying that the years varies from source to source is unsourced itself.--SkyGazer 512 15:18, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 14:00, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Nellie Massacre

Under UN definition "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group," Nellie massacre of 1983 against ethnic Bengali muslims should be considered genocide. Emakalam (talk) 04:08, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

Do you have a reliable source or sources saying that? Bondegezou (talk) 07:35, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

The official investigation of this massacre is a classified document and not available to public. The wiki link to Nellie massacre should contain plenty of independent links. Emakalam (talk) 21:43, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

Genocide of approx. 3 mio Germans due to deportation/forced resettlement/POW by the Soviets after WW2

Any plans to include this?

Also interesting would be the genocide of millions of German citizens due to "moral bombing" during WW2. --188.106.104.31 (talk) 00:06, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

that is not a genocide that was deaths from bombingJack90s15 (talk) 00:42, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

If we leave aside the issue of the bombing of civilian targets, the Flight and expulsion of Germans (1944–1950) is an important topic in history. It is included at List of ethnic cleansing campaigns. Whether it should also be included here, I'm not certain. What we need as reliable source citations using the term genocide in this context. Do those exist? Bondegezou (talk) 12:53, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

North America

What about the North American holocaust? (86.158.252.108 (talk) 01:11, 19 April 2019 (UTC))

reply by Lunderous The California Genocide is included near the bottom which is included in said event. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lunderous (talk • contribs) 22:16, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

All of the Americas lost a majority of their indigenous people due to Spanish British and Colonial massacres. More people died than any other listed event here.

Wenddix (talk) 01:07, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

All of the Americas lost a majority of their indigenous people due to Spanish British and Colonial massacres. More people died than any other listed event here.

Wenddix (talk) 01:07, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Holodomor

Holodomor killed approximately 7.5 million and the minimum is 4.5 million and the maximum is 15 million. Way above the Holocaust. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheSovietYankee (talk • contribs) 16:06, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

you were removing information from a Source and reversing the low and high estimate that will lead to a banned and it showing the range that is used by reputable historians and POV pushing is not ok on wikiJack90s15 (talk) 16:14, 27 April 2019 (UTC) https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Disruptive_editing

Polish operation of the NKVD

Per the list criteria at the top of the page - "This list only considers mass killings recognized as genocides by the legal definition in significant scholarship and criteria by the UN Genocide Convention", I removed the Polish Operation of the NKVD, which is not considered a genocide, by the legal definition, by most scholars in the field. The supporting footnote contained many op-eds/interviews in right-wing Polish media as opposed to actual scholarship (no - an op-ed written by a far-right activist who per the SPLC has "wrote in Najwyzszy Czas! about then-presidential candidate Barack Obama, who he claimed was at one time a Muslim, a radical, and a friend and protégé of communists whose mother was a "feminist, social-liberal, hippie and a fan of F.D. Roosevelt."" - is not a RS). Other than said op-eds the footnote contained alleged support for this from Simon Sebag Montefiore. In fact, Montefiore has a passing mention of this - "A total of 350,000 (144,000 of them Poles) were arrested in this operation, with 247,157 short (110,000 Poles) - a mini-genocide". Ignore that "mini-genocide" is an undefined concept, Montefiore does not discuss the legal definition.

To top it all off - Michael Ellman allegedly supports this. However, Ellman's paper while stating it "may qualify", lists three reasons as to why it may not qualify, and concludes by saying "there is as yet no authoritative ruling on the legal characterisation of the ‘Polish operation’ and the other ‘national operations’ of 1937 – 38." - see pages 24-25 (686-687) in the reference. Furthermore, additional sources contest this terminology - Norman Naimark, Terry Martin, Kevin McDermott (who also notes Moshe Lewin and Ian Kershaw in objection).

In addition, the removed entry inaccurately referred to "Polish genocide" (a third of the victims were not Polish - in Belarus, actually most of the victims were Belarussian), and incorrectly ascribed 250,000 as an upper estimate for the "Polish operation" (numbers for which are fairly well known) - the "Polish operation" was the largest of a number of such "operations" - per Ellman - "The ‘national operations’ were directed against the following ethnic groups (in each case the number of victims arrested by 1 July 1938 is given in brackets after the name of the group): Poles (148,000), Germans (65,000), Latvians (24,000), Iranians (16,000), Greeks (16,000), Finns (11,000), Chinese – Koreans (9,000), Romanians (9,000), Estonians (9,000), English (3,000), Afghans (3,000), Bulgarians (3,000), and others (7,000) (see Danilov 2006, p. 157). (Ellman cites arrest figures - around 80% of those arrested were executed) - the 250,000 figure possibly refers to the total of all "national operations" (and that is clear also from the cited source for this - on arlindo-correia.com), but is incorrect for the "Polish operation"Icewhiz (talk) 11:29, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

References

1. Michael Ellman, Stalin and the Soviet Famine of 1932-33 Revisited PDF file
2. Genocide: A World History, Norman M. Naimark
3. Martin, Terry. "The origins of Soviet ethnic cleansing." The Journal of Modern History 70.4 (1998): 813-861.
4. McDermott, Kevin. "Stalinism ‘From Below’?: Social Preconditions of and Popular Responses to the Great Terror." Totalitarian Movements and Political Religions 8.3-4 (2007): 609-622

That probably is fine to remove. But Massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia seems to meet the criteria a bit better. Why did you remove it as well? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:04, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

• All "ethnic" operations by Soviet NKVD fall under modern day definition of genocide. One just need to find good sources. My very best wishes (talk) 00:46, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

  That is an interesting opinion - however the vast majority of sources covering the Great Terror and the national operations in particular - do not consider them to be genocides (they are ethnic cleansing). We follow mainstream sources - not say Sommer who is not a historian (he was (is?) a political candidate/spokeperson for several parties (that did not pass the threshold or had very low seat counts), as well as a journalist - mainly in Najwyższy Czas! where he is now editor in chief. Nczas is very far from a mainstream publication - see , Racist Extremism in Central & Eastern Europe, along the way he did receive a phd for Ways of tax justification in the light of ideology of human rights (nczas is anti-tax among other things)) - furthermore the cited source source here is a tabloid. You can find sources saying anying anything - e.g. sourcing for Flat Earth is easy to find - in Misplaced Pages, however, we follow mainstream sources as opposed to WP:FRINGE.Icewhiz (talk) 03:31, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia

@Piotrus: - opening a new section. Per my understanding of Massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia - recognition as a genocide (as opposed to ethnic cleansing - which it was) is limited to the Polish parliament, IPN, and some Polish scholars. It has not gained acceptance elsewhere. Icewhiz (talk) 12:08, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

See for instance -

1. Katchanovski, Ivan. "Terrorists or national heroes? Politics and perceptions of the OUN and the UPA in Ukraine." Communist and Post-Communist Studies 48.2-3 (2015): 217-228.
2. Rudling, Per Anders. "Historical representation of the wartime accounts of the activities of the OUN–UPA (Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists—Ukrainian Insurgent Army)." East European Jewish Affairs 36.2 (2006): 163-189.
3. McBride, Jared. "Peasants into Perpetrators: The OUN-UPA and the Ethnic Cleansing of Volhynia, 1943–1944." Slavic Review 75.3 (2016): 630-654.

who discuss the ethnic cleansing vs. genocide question and do not support genocide. Nor does it seem that the Polish Sejm always considered it genocide, e.g. in 2010 - "the Polish Senate declared the anti-Polish actions of the UPA and the OUN during World War II to be ethnic cleansing with “elements of genocide” (Sejm, 2010).". Icewhiz (talk) 12:16, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

And what's wrong with some Polish historians claiming that? Now, I am not saying we should include fringe views, but how fringe is it? Ex. Wiktor Poliszczuk: "This genocide of the Polish population of Volhynia falls under Article III, paragraph (d) of the UN Convention of the...". Or Paweł Naleźniak Ukrainian nationalists tried to de-polonize the South-Eastern Borderlands by means of mass genocide. And here's a paper discussing this from a University of Ottawa: . Or Grzegorz Rossoliński-Liebe, who is described as not just Polish but Polish-German: .

Now, I grant that there are scholars who disagree with this, and call it ethnic cleansing. The issue is, what do do when sources disagree? Should we include such events here, with some note? How many scholars are needed to for a claim to be added to this list? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:05, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

"discussing this" (e.g. Ottawa) - yes discussing and taking the opposing viewpoint. You could have attributed stmt on the relevant article, or discussion on whether it was or not. However the list criteria here is "This list only considers mass killings recognized as genocides by the legal definition in significant scholarship and criteria by the UN Genocide Convention" - in this case calling this something other than ethnic cleansing is a distinct minority position and thus does not meet the list criteria.Icewhiz (talk) 03:34, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

I will note that Grzegorz Rossoliński-Liebe - - supports the opposite position (he does however see the OUN as being a major assisting force in the Jewish Holocaust) - he refers to massacres of Poles and ethnic cleansing and notes OUN's intentions to drive Poles out as opposed to wholesale destruction.Icewhiz (talk) 03:45, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Jewish genocide during the Russian White Terror

In this revert the "Jewish genocide during the Russian White Terror" was reinstated to the list, linking to White Terror (Russia)#White Terror in Southern and Western Russia (missing section). Besides the text and target link being inaccurate (multiple sides (almost all of them) - see Template:Pogroms in Ukraine 1918–1920 for a short summary - were involved) - these pogroms are generally not described as a genocide. Any supporting references to them being a genocide? Icewhiz (talk) 14:17, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

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