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Revision as of 20:40, 23 July 2019 editMrLinkinPark333 (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users78,874 edits →Green-Wood Cemetery: sweet← Previous edit Revision as of 21:28, 23 July 2019 edit undoRhododendrites (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Event coordinators, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, Mass message senders, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers67,100 edits →Green-Wood Cemetery: thanksNext edit →
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:::I went through ] and then checked Commons for existing photos. There is one for ]. ] (]) 19:59, 23 July 2019 (UTC) :::I went through ] and then checked Commons for existing photos. There is one for ]. ] (]) 19:59, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
::::Ahh okay. I updated the category based on my list. Thanks! --] (]) 20:40, 23 July 2019 (UTC) ::::Ahh okay. I updated the category based on my list. Thanks! --] (]) 20:40, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::Thanks both. I've cross-referenced this list with the Green-Wood Cemetery database. A few of them were categorized without a citation and are not on the official website. I was able to find a few others based on other names. I created a list with the lots/sections (it's a big place). Here's hoping the heat wave/storms in NY end soon. :) &mdash; <samp>] <sup style="font-size:80%;">]</sup></samp> \\ 21:28, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Revision as of 21:28, 23 July 2019

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    ? view · edit Frequently asked questions What is WikiProject Women in Red (WiR)? WikiProject Women in Red is a community-led project launched in 2015. We're interested in reducing the gender gap in content coverage across all languages, especially concerning women-related biographies, but also women-related topics (broadly construed), such as artwork, books, sports events, and scientific theories. This concerns both works/topics by and works/topics about women. Specifically, we collaborate on
    • the creation of new articles
    • the improvement of existing articles (featured articles, good articles, DYK articles, stubs...)
    • events such as edithatons and hackatons
    • developing gender-gap related metrics
    • the identification of missing content Misplaced Pages ought to have
    • scholarly publications
    We're not, however, trying to solve editor gender gap, meaning that we think both men and women are equally able to create articles about notable women. How is WikiProject Women in Red related to other WikiProjects? WiR is intended to be a parent project and a resource hub for other projects (in all languages) whose scope covers women and their works, such as

    And related projects

    What specific efforts is WikiProject Women in Red making to reduce/improve the content gender gap?
    • We maintain lists of blogs, conferences, contests, discussions (Misplaced Pages; Wikimedia), editathons, Inspire grantees' projects, mailing-lists, meet-ups, newspaper articles, scholarly articles, social media campaigns, workshops, etc. We use Wikidata to manage several aspects of the project because of its size and scope.
    • We hope to collaborate with international festival organizers (example: Litquake).
    • In addition to needing editors to write the articles, several key volunteer positions have been identified: Data Coordinator; Promotions/Events Coordinator; Lead Coordinators for each language.
    • We hope to establish a teaming arrangement with the Wiki Education Foundation as we believe university students are important to this endeavor. We would like to build on the education outreach efforts described by User:Kruusamägi (Wikimania submission: Possibilities for university cooperation: Estonian example) "Every academic year more than 500 articles on Estonian Misplaced Pages are created as part of local cooperation with universities."
    • Work together with the Wikimedia Chapters
    • Build on Wikimedia's "Address the gender gap/FAQ"
    How can I help? Who can join? Anyone can join! You do not need to have edited Misplaced Pages before, nor is the project restricted to women. Any help you can give, big or small, is greatly appreciated! To get started read our primer.
    Media mentionThis WikiProject has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:
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    "Komm rein, mach mit", in German meaning "Come, join us".
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    I Am… Contemporary Women Artists of Africa at the National Museum of African Art

    Opens June 20. Press release here. This one's in my backyard, so I intend to go see it once I'm back from Central Asia.

    According to the press release: "Three of the artists—Chief Nike Davies Okundaye of Nigeria, Patience Torlowei of Nigeria and Billie Zangewa of South Africa—will attend the June 18 press preview." We have articles on two, and the third should be easy to write up. But this would be a great opportunity to get some photographs. I cannot go - I have too many commitments that day. Any contacts in DC we could ask, other than KellyDoyle? --Ser Amantio di NicolaoLo dicono a Signa. 15:06, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

    Hi Ser Amantio di Nicolao What does one have to do to get a picture? Is it assumed that photos taken at a public event are PD? Could you point me to the relevant policy? I have an old Canon point-and-shoot & could go, but am not a member of the press. Please advise. Best WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 21:49, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
    Hello WomenArtistUpdates. I simply tell people that I am a volunteer editor for Misplaced Pages, and ask them if they would mind my taking a photo to add to their article. If they are hesitant, you can suggest that they can review the photos and confirm their consent again once you have taken them (I try to take at least four). You could also create a page of your photos in your userspace and show them that on a phone/tablet/laptop to reassure them, as I have done at User:Edwardx/people. I only proceed if I can get the subject's permission, but most people are amenable. Edwardx (talk) 23:52, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
    Photos taken at a public event are not PD - the copyright belongs to you as the photographer, but if you upload to Commons you release your rights. Strictly you are unlikely to actually need the subject's consent at a press or public event - see the many film opening/concert etc pics we have where this clearly was not feasible - but if you can it's good to ask. Johnbod (talk) 02:24, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
    @WomenArtistUpdates: Piggybacking off of Edwardx and Johnbod: I always identify myself as a Misplaced Pages editor and tell people I'd like to illustrate their article. And I always give them a chance to vet the photo before publishing it. Most people, I find, are amenable. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoLo dicono a Signa. 04:20, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
    Hello Edwardx, Johnbod, and Ser Amantio di Nicolao. Thank you for your guidance. I have an e-mail into the press department at the museum for permission to attend. I will do my best to get some good portraits. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 17:08, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
    Other contacts include @Fuzheado, Gamaliel, and Slowking4. --Rosiestep (talk) 02:01, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
     Done Working on adding images to articles. (BTW Ser Amantio di Nicolao it is an excellent show.) WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 00:28, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
    @WomenArtistUpdates: Awesome - glad you were able to make it. I'm very much looking forward to seeing the show when I get back from Georgia and Central Asia...we leave tomorrow evening (squeal). Hence my inability to hit it up tonight; I had preparations to make. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoLo dicono a Signa. 04:00, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
    @Ser Amantio di Nicolao: Wait wait... to close the loop, someone needs to write an article on Patience Torlowei of Nigeria. I don't write BLPs. Sad to say the images were out of focus for her. These were the best. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 21:57, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
    Hi Ser Amantio di Nicolao. Please ping me when you get back in town and have caught your breath. **While he is away, if there is another WIRer willing to tackle an article on Patience Torlowei of Nigeria, it would be appreciated. Ideally the catalogue from the show would be a good start. I am not finding any other reliable secondary sources on the web.** Thanks! WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 02:02, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
    • Patience Torlowei, June 2019 Patience Torlowei, June 2019
    • Patience Torlowei, June 2019 Patience Torlowei, June 2019
    @WomenArtistUpdates: Checking in quickly from Tashkent to let you know that I'll try and whip something up soon as I've gotten home and gotten some rest. Later Sunday, perhaps, or maybe Monday. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoLo dicono a Signa. 16:38, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
    Thanks Ser Amantio di Nicolao. Not only will you need some rest, you will be in the molasses atmosphere that is DC in the summer :( Sorry this has come down to you, but there appear to be no other takers. Ms. Torlowei was kind enough to let me take her picture so it would be great if we could get an article started. Thanks again. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 01:47, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
    @WomenArtistUpdates: No trouble at all. I'm itching to get back into the swing of things. Got back yesterday morning, and am starting to get back into my routine. As for the molasses atmosphere, you should've been in Tbilisi two weeks ago...it was just as bad, if not worse. To say nothing of Dubai on Saturday - that was a heat experience unto itself, I can tell you. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoLo dicono a Signa. 16:10, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
    @WomenArtistUpdates: Patience Torlowei is done. It's a start...could be better, but I became a bit pressed for time and couldn't do any more searching. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoLo dicono a Signa. 04:39, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
     Done Thank you Ser Amantio di Nicolao! I added her to 1 day 1 woman + tags WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 21:15, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
    @WomenArtistUpdates: No trouble at all - my pleasure. :-) --Ser Amantio di NicolaoLo dicono a Signa. 05:40, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

    Late June FP report

    Alva Belmont and Séverine passed, as did

    New ones are:

    Adam Cuerden Has about 6.7% of all FPs 23:09, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

    Feel free to shrink the last one down to 40px wide or so, if it's a little too much genitalia for here. Trying to compromise between "surprise genitalia is kind of rude" and "WP:NOTCENSORED" Adam Cuerden Has about 6.7% of all FPs 00:05, 28 June 2019 (UTC)
    They're not all closed yet, but it looks like everything passed. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 13:07, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
    Congrats, Adam Cuerden. Amazing work. Thanks for what you do. --Rosiestep (talk) 13:39, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Rosiestep: Thank you, but I must say: Don't just congratulate me! The first is by Rhododendrites (who really SHOULD have had a lot more out of that set of photos), and the second was found by User:Ser Amantio di Nicolao, who also wrote the article on Honeywell. Both of them do incredible work for the project, and I don't want to grab any of their credit. This is a collaborative project, after all. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 20:33, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
    Congrats, @Rhododendrites and Ser Amantio di Nicolao!! Amazing work. Thanks to all for what you do. --Rosiestep (talk) 22:08, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Adam Cuerden: Thanks kindly, but I owe you a lot for helping me to shepherd Honeywell through the FP process - despite the amount of time I've been hanging out around here, FP is still terra incognita for me to a large extent, and it's great to have a helping hand as I make my first steps down the path. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoLo dicono a Signa. 16:17, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

    Metrics

    FYI, Metrics have been kaput for the last 3 days. Cause is likely to be a temporary ban on the Wikimedia Toolforge querying wikidata. Normal service might be resumed Sunday or Monday. I'm on the case, with the help of someone who has a clue about the plumbing.

    Also FYI, Emijrpbot, which used to do an excellent job of creating new wikidata items for en.wiki biographies, has been quiet presumed dead since the end of April. So there's now that much less being done about creating wikidata items for biographies.

    Anyone who wants to help out on this task is cordially directed to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Women in Red/Metrics/Wikidata, and notably to the various reports under the heading 'Articles with no wikidata item'. Petscan, on which these reports run, is notoriously tempremental (some downstream dependency fail outside Magnus's control, AFAIK), so that adds to the joy of trying to keep metrics up to date. Oronsay & Nat965 continue to put in much spadework in this area, for which thanks. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:58, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

    Thanks, Tagishsimon, it's a pleasure working with you.Oronsay (talk) 19:44, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
    Tagishsimon: I have been tied up for the past day or two and have only now had time to look into that background of this. The whole thing seems to have arisen from a minor block on Emijrp on the EN wiki. I don't suppose the blocker knew how much damage he was doing to the workings of WiR. For years, Emijrp has been a tremendous help to the project and was the first to draw our attention to the assistance we could receive from Wikidata. I understand his frustration but am really disappointed he has posted a retirement notice. Let's hope he can be persuaded to return. If not, is there anyone who can maintain his bot? Or is there some other way we can pick up new "female" articles from Wikidata?--Ipigott (talk) 10:22, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
    Owing to yet another change in the formatting of data provided by Wikidata, our WHGI stats have also failed to update but the problem is being addressed.--Ipigott (talk) 10:22, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
    I'm shopping around for a new user to run Emijrpbot's biography code, but it's a big ask. It's very sad that User:emijrp has retired, and I hope they return; but equally they were banged to rights for a flagrant 3RR ... even when you have right on your side w.r.t. the change you're trying to make stick, edit warring is the wrong thing to do. Meanwhile the expectation is that metrics should be back with us this afternoon. Fingers crossed. --Tagishsimon (talk) 10:31, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
    Tagishsimon: That looks encouraging. Let's hope there is some kind of update today. Up to now, the metrics for July are pretty dismal and those for June seem much lower than usual. To what extent could we rely on new additions to Wikidata without Emijrpbot? Rather than returning to the old days when we used to list articles manually from AlexNewBot, etc., we could at least pay more attention to ensuring new biographies are backed by Wikidata items or updates. Thanks for all your efforts on this. We are obviously in good hands.--Ipigott (talk) 10:58, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Ipigott: Well, good but equally not much use hands. Petscan increasingly does not work, and so is decreasingly a route for finding biogs needing items. I've asked Magnus about the issue, but I'm not expecting a cure. I've not yet found someone to run Emijrpbot, though still looking. Reports bot is back up & running, but if items are not being added to wikidata in a systematic fashion, then we have a problem. June metrics are probably in line with expectations - June seems to be a less productive month than other months (student exam time?) ... I expect June's ~1600 count to increase by ~100 over time, because that tends to be the pattern. I'll feedback any new info on these issues here. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:41, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
    Tagishsimon: You're obviously making good progress. Sorry to hear there are problems with Petscan. Maybe this is a good opportunity to encourage WiR participants to show more interest in Wikidata. Unfortunately, the reactions up to now have been largely negative.--Ipigott (talk) 18:48, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Ipigott: I now have a couple of offers of adoption of Emijrpbot's biography bot, so with luck that will soon get back in action. Petscan seems to be having big problems outside Magnus's control, so the scope for WiR people helping out is very small - without the tool there's not that much that can be done. It's a shame - something WMF should be addressing, but which it prefers to ignore. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:15, 4 July 2019 (UTC)


    Mike Peel has kindly taken over Emijrpbot, the work of which is now handled by User:Pi bot. Suggest we all owe Mike a pint (& presumably a pie) if ever encountered IRL. --Tagishsimon (talk) 09:44, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

    After running over the weekend, it's (briefly) stopped again as I need to do some more reviewing of the code. In particular, there's problems with the birth and death dates only being years rather than the full date (where that's available). If anyone has any other suggestions for improvements to it, then now might be a good time to raise them! Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 13:32, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Mike Peel: Probably normal normal. Priority 1 is getting us to a point where biogs have items with Q5 and gender, whether by creating or adding sitelinks to existing. P2 would be DoB & DoD, occupation, and anything else you can scrape. If you have issues marrying biogs where there are items with a Label matching the article title, then adding links to a simple list in a static page which we can go through by hand would work; we already have a bunch of Listeria reports of items with no gender here which we farm. I guess P3 might be bunging an image onto the wikidata item if there's one available. But really it's the P1 stuff which is most important, as that drives our metrics; anything else is a bonus. thx. --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:08, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
    The bot's now back in regular service. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 11:05, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
    Yay! WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 16:42, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

    Carola Rackete

    I suspect there are German and Italian sources, probably Netherlands and other European languages, that I'm not getting to, if anyone has access. This is a developing event, the ship captain who just docked a rescue ship without authorization in an Italian harbor and has been arrested for it. It would be nice if we could get the article in good enough shape to put it at In The News. --valereee (talk) 12:03, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

    Note that the page is currently up for deletion at AFD: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Carola Rackete. Redalert2fan (talk) 14:12, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
    Update for the archives: the result was keep. --Redalert2fan (talk) 23:49, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

    Not contributing at present

    It's the first of the month. Usually I'd be working on articles (well, solidly-sourced stubs at least) for all the WiR Editathons of the month (as listed here). But I feel despondent about the future of this wonderful volunteer-powered encyclopedia of ours, given the recent events described here and summarised in the latest WP:Signpost. Some powerful elements of the WMF appear to treat volunteers like mushrooms ("keep them in the dark and feed them s***"). Until relationships between the WMF and the English Misplaced Pages community are improved, I am reluctant to contribute. I hope to resume article creation soon, but am not confident about the future. PamD 08:50, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

    For those interested in this unfolding saga, Fram replies to Smallbones' Signpost piece here. I don't know the rights and wrongs of this particular case, but WMF's treatment of the En.Wiki community has been very poor and we are losing hardworking admins day by day. PamD 09:15, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
    Update: Smallbones's piece was deleted at 13:54 UTC today, as "(G10: Attack page or negative unsourced BLP: Out of caution this should be hidden from view until ArbCom rules. We can’t have scandalous assertions without evidence)". A good thing too, but that's how nasty things are getting. PamD 14:04, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
    I'm really sorry, PamD, that you will not be contributing for the time being. With all your biographies and related articles over the past few years, you have done much to improve the coverage of women on the EN wiki. I realize this incident must have been upsetting. Let's hope that as the story unfolds, we can build up the necessary motivation again. Personally, I think it is important to remember how much the world now depends on Misplaced Pages for finding reliable information about people. It's usually their first port of call. Hope you'll be joining us again soon.--Ipigott (talk) 10:52, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
    Thanks, Ian. PamD 14:04, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
    @PamD: I don't think this will be the end of us. I've actually been at a lower ebb over some WiR-related business earlier this year, even. And I suppose I shouldn't be commenting on the Fram business because I've been traveling for the past week and change, and because before that I was so engaged in preparation that I missed a large part of what was going on. That being said: I'm not impressed with the way the Foundation has handled this. Love or hate him (her? I seem to recall Fram self-identifying as female once in a discussion), Fram was a long-time editor and administrator with a major profile here; that's not the sort of person you can just go ahead and block with a snap of the fingers and expect it to go unnoticed. It's troubling, and I hope it's not a harbinger of the way things are going to go around here. Personally, I hope to have enough in the tank for a stub tonight, but otherwise I'll be returning to my wanderings for the remainder of this week. (PS: greetings from Nur-Sultan - ask me about my trip to Georgia sometime. :-)) --Ser Amantio di NicolaoLo dicono a Signa. 17:14, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
    • Time for my afternoon tea break, and wanted to check in with you, PamD, to see how you're doing as you mentioned feeling despondent. Hope you're doing ok (even though the issues surrounding recent events are not settled). --Rosiestep (talk) 21:56, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

    Wen Shu

    I offered to start off the biography of Wen Shu as part of the Women in Space theme for June. I've got a fair way in my user pages, and have a final source coming from a library. You can see my draft here. So I think, with a bit of extra work on the text itself, it can pass the notability criteria. There are some bits I'm stuck on though, and I've been noting them in the related talk page. For example, I wouldn't dream of attempting the naming conventions for Chinese biographies. And I'm not sure how to safely source images. What do people recommend I focus on next? And should I move it into review now, or can you edit when it is a user page? I'm hoping @Johnbod can help me move this into live space! Moira Paul (talk) 21:15, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

    I think it passes notability as it is, and can just be moved now (I can do it if you prefer). I did look at the sources I have handy, but haven't found anything to add. 2D images are fine to upload from museums etc as she's long out of copyright. I'll add at the talk. Johnbod (talk) 21:19, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
    Other than dealing with the tbc in the infobox, the only nice-to-have I spot would be a ref for the legacy section. Johnbod's right - she is notable and the article can be promoted to mainspace now (or, at least, when the infobox stuff is sorted out, and any unused infobox or section headers are removed). Lovely short article, Moira; thank you. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:38, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
    There's also https://ca.wikipedia.org/Wen_Shu https://fr.wikipedia.org/Wen_Shu and https://www.wikidata.org/Q3567210 --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:11, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
    As usual, the Catalan article seems to be just a translation of the French one. As for WD, is "Ming dynasty" a "country of citizenship"? Johnbod (talk) 23:47, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
    I spend most of my time nowadays despairing of wikipedia & wikidata. Ming now gone. Today's best doh! was a wikidata claim that the narrative location of the film Casablanca was Paris (diff). Kill me now. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:30, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
    Indeed! For me, I think that makes it over 10 for "last WD items looked at without not finding a mistake" - and counting. Thanks for fixing. Johnbod (talk) 00:42, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
    Thank you all! I’ve realised I should add her Venusian moon crater as part of her Legacy too. Will make an edit tonight. Moira Paul (talk) 06:44, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Moira Paul: I recognize that name from the previous discussion I made last month :) Thanks for making the article! --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 17:42, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

    Invalid time error

    Hello. I went to tag Talk:Morgan Court and I get an error that says Category:WikiProject Women in Red Error: Invalid time. articles. At the Category:Pages with parser function time errors there are multiple women article with this same error. Any ideas why this is the case? Thanks! --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 01:24, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

    I hazard a guess that's a snafu in Template:WIR-126, in which the date parameter has a value 'July and August 2019' in a situation in which some part of the plumbing can only cope with more regular dates having formats such as 1 August 2019, August 2019 or 2019. But quite how the borked category is generated from the date parameter eludes me, even supposing that that's what is going on. Anyway; good spot. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:59, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
    Thanks MrLinkinPark333. I've got rid of the errors by editing the template to July. I'll change it to August when the time comes. Obviously two months was too much for Misplaced Pages to swallow in one go!--Ipigott (talk) 09:20, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

    Nicole Turner notability

    I'm working on filling in a few redlinks in the para swimming topic, and I'm looking at Irish swimmer Nicole Turner. I just want to check on notability before I start. The SNG for sports under Olympic and Paralympic Games says winning a medal at the Paralympics is enough, but she hasn't done that though she has competed. But under Basic criteria it approves an athlete who has "for example, participated in a major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level." Turner won 2 silver medals and one bronze at the 2016 IPC Swimming European Open Championships and has recently won a gold in the Youth section of the World Para Swimming Series. Both of those are competitions at the highest level of para swimming, though the world gold is only at Youth level so won't really count. As for GNG, there's a report on her European medals in the Irish Times and more in-depth articles about her from RTE and the Irish Independent. There's also an earlier article about her in Balls.ie. The Irish Times, RTE and Irish Independent all seem like reliable sources to me (though I confess I'd never heard of Balls.ie). So, notability, what do you think? Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:15, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

    @Boing! said Zebedee: Well, if you can pass GNG you should be set to go. There's also this source I found as well that adds more in depth coverage. Also, this one is behind a paywall. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 17:39, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
    Thanks for those links, especially the paralympic.org one which is good. There's also a second paywall one at leinsterexpress.ie, and I might just invest 99c for a day's access to get both. I think there's enough for GNG, but I'll wait a short while for any other opinions. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:59, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

    References

    1. https://www.paralympics.ie/nicole-turner
    2. https://www.paralympics.ie/nicole-turner
    3. https://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/laois-sports/423146/laois-paralympian-nicole-turner-wins-gold-at-world-para-swimming-series.html?refresh_ce
    4. https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/nicole-turner-wins-ireland-s-first-silver-at-european-championships-1.3600897
    5. https://www.rte.ie/sport/swimming/2019/0307/1034993-the-moment-that-made-me-nicole-turner/
    6. https://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/swimming/turners-success-based-on-a-dedication-that-knows-no-limits-37207261.html
    7. https://www.balls.ie/other-sports/nicole-turner-paralympic-swimmer-301560
    8. https://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/sport/352714/laois-paralympian-nicole-turner-shortlisted-for-rte-sports-awards-young-sportsperson-of-the-year.html

    Need your opinion on Misplaced Pages’s gender gap

    Hi Women in Red!

    Are you curious about what tools are effective in reaching Women in Red’s goals? Are you interested in contributing to the building of scalable solutions for closing Misplaced Pages’s gender gap?

    I’m with a group of researchers working on using Artificial Intelligence (AI) tools to promote gender diversity in Misplaced Pages contents and thus to close the gender gap. We want to make sure you, as an important member of the community, can be heard as we build and refine these AIs.

    We would like to invite you to a quick interview to share your thoughts about gender gaps on Misplaced Pages and the current efforts, as well as potential solutions to them. It would only take about 30 minutes over phone or video chat. We will send you a $15 Amazon gift card as a way to thank you for your time.

    For more details about our project, please refer to our Misplaced Pages page here.

    If you decide to participate, your opinion could help build the future of Misplaced Pages. Hope to talk to you soon! Reply to this message here or send me an email at bowen-yu@umn.edu and I can share more info and plan a time to connect. Bobo.03 (talk) 19:33, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

    Note that, unless things have changed, Amazon vouchers have to be redeemed from the country they were issued in - they don't work internationally. Johnbod (talk) 15:55, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
    I'll participate, if you like. Though I should point out I work more in images, and you should probably make sure you interview people other than me, because only interviewing men about women's issues leads to all sorts of stupid. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 16:10, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
    Sure - I'd be happy to participate. Be warned that I'll likely be computerless for the next 48 hours or so, though...it'll be Sunday at the earliest before I can have a look. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoLo dicono a Signa. 16:34, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
    I participated. --Rosiestep (talk) 16:54, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
    Bobo.03 I'll be happy to participate if it can be done by e-mail or VOIP. I live in Mexico and phone calls are difficult. SusunW (talk) 17:09, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
    Thank you for your reply! I've sent individual emails to all of you to schedule a time. Hope to talk to you all soon. Thanks again!Bobo.03 (talk) 19:31, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

    Lists of women (cont.)

    Hi all! I'm sitting in a really interesting presentation at the Celtic Knot Wikimedia Conference in Cornwall and Marcmiquel is talking about bridging gaps as part of his presentation Languages Matter to Cultural Diversity: Finding Missing Languages and Bridging the Gaps in Minority Languages and one of this examples was a table of articles with columns on Wikidata, interwiki links, etc. Hopefully he'll put his slides up and/or the conference will put up his presentation on Commons. I think it would be really useful for this project, so take a look! -Yupik (talk) 13:31, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

    Thanks Yupik. I was aware Marc was making the presentation, but it's nice to see how it plays out. I played around with the women's lists a little but found it hard to evaluate without the context of their era. It seems that the criteria for inclusion is number of edits and views, which would typically skew toward recentism, i.e. ignoring historic figures in favor of current popular figures. Maybe there is a way to generate lists by era that I don't see to prevent that outcome? I will ask Marc my specific questions, but am very glad to see initiatives that help us address gaps in the coverage in en.WP of notable figures in other wikis. SusunW (talk) 14:29, 4 July 2019 (UTC)
    I haven't had a chance to talk with him about that and am not sure I will get the chance before the end of the conference, so please let us know what he says when you do! -Yupik (talk) 00:18, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

    Wikidata issues in July 2019

    Getting to grips with Wikidata

    So I've come across an interesting-sounding woman called Irene Scouloudi (1907-1992), an English historian whose interest in the Huguenots led to documentation of methods of assisting refugees. No article on Misplaced Pages. It turns out there is a page on Wikidata here, but it appears to refer to her not as a person but as the subject of a scholarly article. Am I reading that correctly? I added the description "English historian and philanthropist". What do I need to do to get Wikidata to automatically add her to the appropriate Redlist? --Carbon Caryatid (talk) 13:30, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

    Yes, the item you point to is for a scholarly article, although I see someone has tried to turn it into a human. I've reverted them. How to add to wikidata? Read Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Women in Red/How to add names to Women in Red lists harder? (Thanks for fixing the typo.) Obvs I've failed to explain how it all works. Maybe start here: https://www.wikidata.org/Special:NewItem ... and if not, I'll add. (more later - run out of time) --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:51, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
    (edit conflict) So this is actually just an item about the scholarly article, and is just for that. I checked wikidata and could not find an item for her as a person, so I have created a new one for you here (Q64946751). She should be added to the redlist when you fill in her data, specifically occupation and nationality. Then ListeriaBot should add her to the redlist at the next update. Wikidata aims to include all data about everything so that's why there can be a page about a scholarly article about a person while needing a separate page for that specific person. Redalert2fan (talk) 13:57, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
    Sorry about that, I think I got a little confused by the request. Apologies. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski 14:17, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

    @Carbon Caryatid: I realise your question was about Wikidata, but if you're interested I have access to the David M. Wilson's one-page reflection on her importance. I've only skimmed it, but she sounds like the kind of person who should have a Misplaced Pages article (as well as an entry in Wikidata of course). Richard Nevell (talk) 14:16, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

    There's also an informative obit here.--Ipigott (talk) 14:32, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

    And back to wikidata - her item needs a P106 Occupation before it'll turn up on a redlist. I've added such. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:26, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

    Thanks all, especially Redalert2fan for creating the Wikidata entry. I had in fact read the "How to add names" page, but I was unsure whether the page I was looking at on WD needed to be added to. Is there a way to add to her WD biographical entry that she left an endowment, so that all holders of the Scouloudi Fellowship link automatically to her and each other? I started from the Indy obit, but yes @Richard Nevell: I'd appreciate the Wilson reflection. --Carbon Caryatid (talk) 12:03, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
    We can certainly create an item "Scouloudi Fellowship" or "Scouloudi Historical Award" presuming these are the same things (or two items if they are not). And we can point to her item from the Fellowship/Award item using the properties P138: named after and P112 created by. Items for recipients can point to the fellowhip/award item using the property P166:award received. There may be a property we can add to her item pointing at the fellowship/award item, but I've not found it yet. Let's start with the q. are "Scouloudi Fellowship" and "Scouloudi Historical Award" the same thing? --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:22, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

    If the Wikidata list only contains X items, which items aren't included?

    If you take a look at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Educators, it contains 3,000 items, out of >12,000. How does Wikidata determine which items are included in the first 3,000, and which ones aren't. What if we changed the max to 1,000 items; which items would be more likely to be included vs. excluded? Would it be possible to have two lists of "Educators", one which only includes items that have site links, and the other to include items with no site links? --Rosiestep (talk) 16:54, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

    As to the second question, yes, absolutely, it's possible to add more parameters to a select to produce multiple list. We've done this for a number of redlists where we've divided them into countries, for instance. As to the first, good question. I've asked elsewhere, where people who know SPRQL and BlazeGraph better than me might be able to opine. I'll report back if I hear anything. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:38, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
    Thanks for your quick reply, Tagishsimon. Adding Librarian in Residence Megalibrarygirl. So regarding point #2, do you think it would be useful to create: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Educators (at least 1 site link) and Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Educators (0 site links). Or how else to split them?
    After we decide on how to name the split pages, all the "educator" redlists be linked to this page Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Educators, which would become an "index" page for educators, to include Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Women in Red/Educators (the CS list), and Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/University teachers. Does that sound reasonable for our en-wiki community and would it makes sense to the 22 other language Misplaced Pages communities?
    Using "educators" is really a test case as whatever is decided could be applied to other large occupation groups, e.g. writers, artists, scientists, so this needs ample thought and discussion. --Rosiestep (talk) 21:44, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
    Hi Rosiestep, those 2 redlinks look the same to me. :( I would go with "Educators" like they use at the Library of Congress . Then, related, you would have academics and specialists. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 21:53, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

    Hi Megalibrarygirl. Sure, those are good occupation titles. I couldn't find a Wikidata redlist for "academic" (Q3400985), so we'd need someone to create it: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Academic. I also couldn't find one for "educational specialist" (Q5341303), so this would be another new one: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Educational specialist. Note, neither of these occupations are included in the "educators" redlist so I'm still struggling with how to decrease the number of items from >12,000 to something more manageable. These are the ones that are included: --Rosiestep (talk) 01:12, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

    • wd:Q1056391#head_teacher
    • wd:Q37226#teacher
    • wd:Q974144#educator
    • wd:Q1569495#lecturer
    • wd:Q901222#tutor
    • wd:Q20794925#college_head
    • wd:Q121594#professor
    I have created the separate lists for "academic" and "educational specialist", Educational specialist only appears to have 1 person --Redalert2fan (talk) 09:19, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
    I'm going to beg to doubt the >12,000 assertion. Counts of the number of items by profession for the educator professions listed above is at https://w.wiki/5iX and suggests the way to divide the list might be a couple of teacher lists, and then discrete lists for the significant numbers of the other professions. I might make this so, or Redalert2fan might beat me to it. There's also this - https://w.wiki/5ia - the subclasses of educator, which we might want to factor in lest we're missing a large pot of people coded for occupation unber any of these. And finally, there this - https://w.wiki/5ic - the counts of female with no en.wiki article having occupations, for all occupations. (The largest number of female have no occupation and get a dummy value of 'concept of unknown value in Wikibase'.) --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:32, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Rosiestep and Tagishsimon: The interesting thing about Wikidata is that since it's crowdsourced and not really subject to authority control, there will be different kinds of headings than what you'd find at the Library of Congress or even with a Dewey system. I'm not a cataloging librarian, so only deal with categories in the sense that I use them to find things. Other librarians involved in cataloging, etc, use the categories to organize information. The way Wikidata is doing it is a little bit like a folksonomy, but that's OK as long as it's working for us and we can collect the datasets we need like Redalert2fan has. We link to the authorities in the articles anyway. :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 15:37, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Megalibrarygirl, Redalert2fan, and Tagishsimon: - As we want to have redlists related to education and we want to avoid a folksonomy approach to it to the extent that's possible, would you please sort out for us (a) what redlist names should we use, and (b) what occupations (Q numbers) should go into each? Sure, we already have an "educator" redlist and a "university teachers" redlist, but we don't have to keep these "titles" if you think something else would be better. For example, we could move the "university teachers" page to "tertiary educators" and include all the Q numbers associated with post-secondary educators. Another example is the new redlist that Redalert2fan created for "educational specialist", which currently has only has one Q number (and that has only 1 item); should we keep that redlist, and add more Q numbers, and if so, which Q numbers? Plus there's the new "academic" one. I know it's a lot of work, but this is what we need to sort out. Thanks in advance. --Rosiestep (talk) 16:04, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Rosiestep, Redalert2fan, and Tagishsimon: I personally think that whatever works is fine. For example, if we used the Dewey system, we would categorize educators under a broad heading with some relevant subheadings:
    • Educators (370)
      • Philosophy & History of Education (this would include biographies in the 370.8 section)
      • Elementary education (372)
      • Secondary education (373)
      • Adult education (374) these might be specialists or tutors
      • Education of women (376)
      • Higher education (378)
    Within these categories are various breakdowns. So we could subdivide them further. If we base our own lists on existing categories built up by systems we already use, it should be easier to organize. We can look at what the system is doing and copy it. We'd have to decide if we'd want to use Dewey, LOC or another type of system. The first two are mostly particular to the US. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 17:59, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
    I have found that it sometimes helps just to take an intelligent look at the at the various "countries" listings when looking for occupations such as educators. There you can often find people from different fields of science and the humanities who are not listed in Wikidata as educators but who do in fact teach as their principal occupation. When making Wikidata entries, people often seem to list just one main occupation. As a result, notable educators often fail to show up. As to Rosiestep's suggestion that we have two types of Wikidata listing, one of names with at least one article in another language and the other with no article, I wonder if this could not be handled by displaying two lists under the same link. It might become rather confusing to double up the red lists associated with "popular" occupations. Of course, if we can systematically include site data in our redlink lists, then we can simply dismiss those marked 0 if we are looking for articles in other languages.--Ipigott (talk) 06:45, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
    Ipigott, aha! Nice to hear. You may not be aware, but it's one of my habits to review redlists (been working on the Educators one) and add the country to items which are missing it just so that the item is available on country lists, too. --Rosiestep (talk) 14:04, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
    Rosiestep: I think you must have misunderstood my message. I probably did not express myself very well. What I was suggesting was that you can often find the names of educators (and indeed of people in other occupations) by looking through the country lists. As I am interested in writing about Scandinavians, I frequently look through the country lists for Denmark, Norway and Sweden, examining in particular the main descriptions in addition to the specific lists on the different professions. That said, your work on the educator redlists seems very useful.--Ipigott (talk) 06:34, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
    Ipigott Thumbs up icon. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:37, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

    Wikidata items for our subpages

    What do you think about creating items for all of our redlists and editathons, including the statement on focus list of Wikimedia project (P5008)? If you like the idea, what other WiR subpages would be suited for a Wikidata item, e.g. subpages which might be replicated in another language, e.g. this is the Italian language Wikidata redlist of women educators. If you like the idea, how would we structure this as an "ontology", because other projects, e.g. A+F, BLT, 1000 Women in Religion, Atari Women, etc. are using it only (I think) as a way of associating biographies with their project, not as a way of demarcating their subpages. cc: WiR Librarian in Residence, Megalibrarygirl. --Rosiestep (talk) 17:35, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

    I really like the idea of adding redlists as a Wikidata item, Rosiestep. It might help us find other potential articles in other languages, especially if they're crowd-sourced lists. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 20:37, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
    I really like this idea, but I am not sure you can create items for all of these editathons? That kind of thing is out of my league since I tend to hang out with 17th-century art. If you had this it would make it easier to see which approaches have the most impact, so I would definitely like to see some setup along these lines. I am just not sure how to do it. Jane (talk) 13:26, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
    Thanks for the encouragement, @Jane023 and Megalibrarygirl:. I've taken the proposal to Wikidata for further input, and brought it up on FB in "The Wikidata Community" Public group. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:27, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
    fwiw, I have our Redlists characterised in a spreadsheet such that I can launch wikidata items for each onto an unsuspecting world. --Tagishsimon (talk) 08:26, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
    Majority of redlists now have wikidata items. There's some clear-up work to be done which I'll not bore you with, and perhaps properties to add (or change), if anyone cares to make a suggestion. Report. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:42, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

    Looking for more sources

    I created Floy Little Bartlett and I am surprised at how little I could find since the score of one of her songs was in a famous film. I'm looking for help to find more things about her, her music, and her book. Thanks in advance. SL93 (talk) 20:03, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

    @SL93: I'll dig for some more info. I'll post the links on the talk page of her article. :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 20:44, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
    One thing I find helps is to check the Library of Congress, or other large collections. That way you get some idea of what exists. Remember to use both maiden and married names in the searches and (sadly enough) "Mrs. Husband Name". After that, one can move to things like obituaries in her local papers, and so on. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 20:46, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
    I appreciate the help from you two. Megalibrarygirl, thanks for the source help on the talk page. SL93 (talk) 20:55, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
    I'm kind of impressed at how poor sources are from her. Mind, she does kind of fall into the worst period for this. Right in the middle of a sheet music boom, used in silent films, so there's no recordings of the usage, and, judging by the titles, falling into a sentimental mood, which seems to have not really been what people kept from the 1910s. Plus, a lot of her works came out a bit before WWI, so, plenty of chaos to lose them in. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 21:09, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
    I have come into source problems quite a bit with women composers and it's a shame. I own a copy of International Encyclopedia of Women Composers and it lists so many composers that I feel should be notable, but I just can't find enough coverage where I can feel it would survive an AfD. SL93 (talk) 21:17, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
    Adam Cuerden, SL93: I'm interested in covering women composers, especially those from continental Europe, and am familiar with several sources which don't usually show up in Google searches in English. If you could give the names of a few of those you have been investigating, I may be able to create articles likely to survive. As for those from Britain and North America, I think there's enough expertise among the English speakers to check them out.--Ipigott (talk) 06:13, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
    Ipigott, I'm away from my stuff until sometime tomorrow, but I can list some here when I get back home. SL93 (talk) 16:39, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
    Ipigott, I could only locate two of the names I was researching, but they are Gertrud Maria Mell (Sweden) and Jelena Milenković Živković (Yugoslavia). Sources right now for Mell - an entry in my encyclopedia and this. Sources right now for Milenković Živković - my encyclopedia and this. SL93 (talk) 20:55, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
    SL93: Thanks for these. Mell is included here in the Swedish lexicon Vem är hon and briefly in a number of other Swedish sources. I see she died on 30 June 2016. I'll write a short article about her in the next day or two. You can then perhaps add any additional information from your encyclopedia.--Ipigott (talk) 09:19, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
    It's looking likely we'll be performing Louise Bertin's Le loup-garou next year, so I'd love to see her operas documented better. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 07:13, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
    I think you did a fine job in finding sources, and the article looks good. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 05:52, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

    Kim Echlin edit request

    Hi all. There's a COI edit request at Talk:Kim Echlin that participants in this project might be interested in helping out with. Echlin is a female, Canadian novelist. The request probably can't be implemented wholesale, but the article certainly could do with some improvement, and there may well be useful material for this task in the request. I've made some minor additions to the article myself, but help would be appreciated. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:33, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

    Help! Need a new article renamed

    I misspelled an article title, Juilet Clannon Cushing should be Juliet Clannon Cushing (and it's spelled right in the rest of the article). Help! Penny Richards (talk) 15:28, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

    Done. Johnbod (talk) 15:38, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
    Thanks! Penny Richards (talk) 16:00, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

    Nari Shakti Puraskar

    There are a lot of redlinks at Nari Shakti Puraskar, "India's highest civilian award for recognising the achievements and contributions of women", as I found out while creating an article for Didi Contractor, one of the 2018 winners. —David Eppstein (talk) 15:50, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

    Good find, David Eppstein. Hopefully, someone is creating Wikidata items for the redlinked women. --Rosiestep (talk) 18:53, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

    GAN nom for Susan Kauzlarich

    Hi folks, I just got a response on my very first GAN nom for Prof Susan Kauzlarich @ UC Davis. You can take a look on the talk page Susan Kauzlarich. I don't mind pursuing things further but I was a bit surprised by the reviewer's justifications. Would someone else mind taking a look and letting me know a second opinion? Also, aren't the reviewers usually supposed to be part of an article's relevant project groups (for instance a reviewer for this article would be be affiliated w/ Misplaced Pages: Chemistry or Misplaced Pages: Women in Science). thanks! Nanobright (talk) 18:42, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

    I'll take a look. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski 19:17, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
    Edit, there's a few things - I'll comment them on the talk page when I get a few minutes. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski 19:19, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
    There is no requirement for reviewers to be affiliated with an article's project group. In many cases, it is helpful if they aren't. Canada Hky (talk) 19:57, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
    I'm sure it was disappointing, Nanobright, but the GAN feedback seems reasonable to me. GAN is a high standard and this article does not yet meet it. I, too, have failed a GAN ... it's upsetting, I know, but in my case the GAN fail was justified, as it was in this case. It will take a substantial amount of work to make Sk GAN material, and that would start with addressing the points raised in the feedback you have. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:37, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
    I did some clean up on the article to help neutralize the tone to a more encyclopedic voice. Netherzone (talk) 03:00, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
    If this BLP came to AfD it would get a clear pass on WP:Prof#C1, maybe more. However the BLP is far from GA status as it is bloated with trivia and superfluous promotionalism that could be an embarrassment to its subject. A 50% at least prune is needed. Xxanthippe (talk) 05:05, 8 July 2019 (UTC).
    Nanobright: I realize you are probably rather upset by the result of the review. As has been explained above, the GA standard is pretty high. If you want to see some of the recent women's biographies which have reached GA class, I suggest you look at the "Recent successes" listed on project WikiProject Women in Green. It might also be useful for you to join that project where you will be able to receive advice and assistance. Perhaps it would also be good to choose another women as a candidate for a GA article. I'm not at all sure whether there are sufficient available sources on Susan Kauzlarich for you to be able to expand the article much further. I would be happy to help you along if we can identify another candidate for whom you can find more background information. You might also like to consider writing about someone who is no longer living. Obituaries, especially those you can find on the internet for people who have died fairly recently, can be useful sources as they give an immediate impression of a person's level of notability and provide essential background details. Don't give up. You're progressing very well. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 10:50, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
    Hi @Lee Vilenski, Tagishsimon, Ipigott, Canada Hky, Xxanthippe, and Netherzone:: Thanks for getting back to me. Apologies for any confusion but my concern was not the GAN status but that the feedback would lead to the article being nominated for deletion. It's great to hear that's not on the table + for some addt'l feedback. Now that my WikiEdu class is completed I have less time allocated to editing (although I am working on organizing an edit-a-thon for women's scientific biographies). Re: comments above from @Xxanthippe:, I'm having trouble following the feedback + terms in your reply but the overall gist sounds worrisome. If you have time to make any direct edits to the article that would be awesome. Nanobright (talk) 17:13, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
    Good stuff, Nanobright; keep the faith. Good luck with the editathon; hope to see much more from you. And thank you for weathering this squall as well as you have. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:20, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
    Sorry I didn't get time to message you regarding this - I'd say that "good articles" are misleading, realistically, they need to be "great articles". The person in question is notable, so no worries regarding AfD. I'll do some cleanup on the page if you would like that. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski 20:40, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

    RfC: Add 'create an article' option in the interface

    Since you have a lot of experience with newbies and article creation, you might have good feedback for this. Please comment at the above link! Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:36, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

    Thanks Headbomb for bringing this to our attention. I see your proposal is already attracting support. Before I go to your proposal page, I have a few reflections and suggestions. I remember when I first used (pre-Misplaced Pages) wikis, one of my problems was how to create an article. It's not at all obvious. (I had been used to Wang word processing where the first menu item was "Create".) While I agree that more information about creating new articles should be provided in a general introduction, I am not convinced it is a good idea to encourage "newbies" to start creating articles without gaining some basic experience of editing, e.g. through the Misplaced Pages Adventure. In my experience, without initial guidance, very few new editors are able to create new articles which are not immediately deleted. We need to be very careful not to discourage newbies to the point where they simply stop any further involvement. If additional explanations are to be given on how to create an article, they should therefore contain a number of hints and safeguards. One feature could be a basic article format (perhaps even two: one for people and one for other items) which could be "filled in" by new recruits. This is a complex matter and needs careful attention. I see, btw, that the German wiki has a page Hilfe:Artikel anlegen (Help:Create new article) with an immediate link to Schritt für Schritt-Anleitung (Step-by-step guide) which has been around since 2008. I see this is available in many wiki languages but not in English. There is however this in Simple English. It may be useful to draw on the experience gained. Hope this helps.--Ipigott (talk) 11:35, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

    Your thoughts about community health

    Some of you may know that I am a member of the Wikimedia movement strategy Community Health Working Group(CHWG). It is one of nine Working Groups (WG) involved in developing recommendations to the WMF Board of Trustees regarding planning for the future. In order to make informed recommendations, we seek the opinions of editors. Here's a link to the survey. No need to respond here stating whether you've completed it or not... I just hope that you make the time to do it. Thanks in advance. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:11, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

    I could not find the survey until I realized I had to click on "NÆSTE" at the foot of the first page. Then I found the questions.--Ipigott (talk) 20:21, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
    I noticed this and thought it was interesting, thanks Rosiestep! But I'm slightly confused after looking at meta, maybe you can help?
    It looks like this is part of this project, but the timeline given there suggests that the survey period ended on June 30, and the "wrap-up" ends, well, today. Since you posted on July 8, I'm guessing the dates on that page are old - do you know of an updated timeline anywhere?
    It also looks like this is part of this bigger series of surveys, but I can't find that one linked anywhere other than meta. You seem to be the only one who's posted this on enwiki! That can't be right - I was using Special:Linksearch, but maybe you've set up the surveys so the links are unique to the origin? (That would be clever!) If the survey period is indeed still ongoing, shouldn't the bigger set be more widely circulated? Opabinia regalis (talk) 08:19, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    Interesting queries. Pinging Rosiestep on the above.--Ipigott (talk) 08:32, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    Thank you for your interest, @Opabinia regalis and Ipigott. I'm traveling so I apologize for brevity. Here is a link to all of the Working Group surveys. See also this for more information, or just ask me specific questions and I'll be glad to respond (or find out the answer and respond). As for deadline(s)/extension(s), I am checking with strategy Core Team. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:33, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Opabinia regalis and Ipigott: deadline = before next Friday. --Rosiestep (talk) 16:47, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    Eeep, thank you Rosiestep (and I hope you're enjoying your trip)! Does that date apply to all of the surveys, or just the one you posted? If it's the latter, I think the link to the big batch of surveys should be broadly posted in the usual places (AN, VP, etc) to make sure people here see it - I've got to run right now but I can do that tonight. I probably should read meta more, but I bet I'm not the only one who tends to stick to enwiki unless pinged from somewhere else! Opabinia regalis (talk) 17:05, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    Opabinia regalis, Rosiestep, Things like this should definitely be more widely publicized than just at this selected project, and with enough time for people to take part. Notifying only the Women in Red project could look somewhat partisan, perhaps even verging on canvassing. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:51, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Boing! said Zebedee: This may be the only place you have seen it, but be assured that many wiki communities around the world are aware of it. Women in Red isn't a recognized "Affiliate", but it is an ally of Wiki Women's User Group and Gender Diversity Visibility Community User Group, ergo why I left a comment here. (PS: You don't have to be a member of an Affiliate to participate in the surveys. Everyone's opinion is welcomed.) --Rosiestep (talk) 18:31, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Rosiestep: I'm pleased to hear that, but where else on the English Misplaced Pages (by far the biggest Misplaced Pages) has this been publicized? Don't you think this needs wider input than only from groups specifically associated with Women and Gender? Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 18:56, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Boing! said Zebedee How can a neutrally worded head's up about a survey of interest to this project be canvassing or partisan? It's common to let projects who may be interested in a certain topic to know about these things. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 18:4, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Megalibrarygirl It can be seen as canvassing or partisan if it is selectively communicated to projects that would be more likely to have a more sympathetic view of the aims of the initiative, and not to the wider community. I'm quite sure that's not what's intended, but T&S and Community Health are divisive topics right now, and I do think this needs proper wider notification. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 18:53, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Boing! said Zebedee: if we're at the point where editors perceive talking about community health as "divisive" then I am even more worried than I was before about community health on Misplaced Pages. Rosiestep as a member of a project was sharing relevant info with a concerned WikiProject so it's clearly not canvassing. I think the tone policing that you're engaging in is unproductive. Instead, find other projects that may be interested and let them know. There's other surveys on Meta right now, too. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 19:10, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Megalibrarygirl:: Its the approach that's divisive, with the WMF appearing aloof and insensitive to what the community actually wants. I really don't want to being up the F word here, but it's that apparent aloofness and disconnect that was behind the biggest fight we've had in ages. The community needs to be involved and consulted about these things, properly, if there's to be any buy-in. Oh, and I've honestly no idea what you mean by "tone policing". Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:57, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Boing! said Zebedee: I'm glad you feel that it's important that we all deal with community health. I think it comes off as tone policing when you criticize someone spreading the word instead of helping to spread the word yourself or letting WMF know they need to get a broader audience. I don't know how to bridge the divide between WMF and the enwiki community. But maybe we need to reach out to them to let them know they're not communicating very well. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 20:05, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Megalibrarygirl: Oh, I see - I've never heard it called "tone policing" before. My criticism was meant to be of WMF's failure to inform the whole project en.wiki of this thing, while instead only one specific project gets to hear about it (and to be fair, it was a WMF employee who told the project, even if not in an official capacity). As for letting WMF know that we find their communications to be poor, I'd be somewhat astounded if they hadn't noticed what people have been telling them about their communications since the Fram thing kicked off. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 20:18, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Boing! said Zebedee: The squeaky wheel gets the grease. :) I think we should reach out whenever we see a lack of good communication. Otherwise, they'll think it's a one off! Megalibrarygirl (talk) 20:31, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    What Megalibrarygirl said. As Opabinia regalis said, typical wp behavior is to stick to those places you edit. Lots of people, allies and non-allies have watchlisted this page. Rosie isn't responsible for distributing the survey, but she did post it in a prominent place so that others would know of it. I appreciate Opabinia regalis' offer to post it other places. Wouldn't have the slightest idea how to do that, as "the usual places (AN, VP, etc)" are unfamiliar to me and I have no idea what these, or most wiki acronyms mean. SusunW (talk) 18:57, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    Well, I'm clearly not going to get much sympathy here from those with a vested interest in this project (which I have too - I'm working on WiR articles myself), but I really do think these things should be more widely publicized across en.wiki, rather than just to sympathetic projects. I'm sure the number of people who have this page watchlisted is tiny compared to the usual places (and, I'm sure Rosiestep knows where they are, even if you don't). Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:02, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    Just want to put a quick pin in that, Boing! said Zebedee - as far as I can tell this is the only place on enwiki itself that these survey links have appeared, so thanks to Rosie for sharing! I dont think it's canvassing any more than it would be if I'd noticed it and posted it on, say, the MCB talk page. The meta page about this strategy project says that the distribution plan is: "The chosen approach for distribution is using existing liaison networks as well as social media channels" - so if there's issues with notifications they were kind of baked in to the project as a whole, and the best thing to do now is to make sure it gets seen more broadly. That plan probably makes sense for some of the topics in the survey set, and I appreciate the goals there in making sure to hear from people who are more loosely connected to the overall Wikimedia community. But offsite social media as a primary place to find out about surveys targeting your open-source free-knowledge hobby community doesn't sound right. (I guess I'll go say that on meta later, but yeesh how does anyone actually get any editing done from a phone.) Opabinia externa (talk) 19:04, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Opabinia externa: So you think it's fine to only notify a specific project that has a specific topic related to women as its goal (and one which I think is likely to be sympathetic to the initiative), and not notify the English Misplaced Pages as a whole? (And to be clear, I do not think there is any canvassing intended, but can't you see how some might see it that way?) (Oh, and as for phones - nah, they're for talking on) Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:10, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    I mean that a working group member notifying a project she works on seems to be pretty much exactly what the "distribution plan" recommended - people using their networks. And we, as extended members of that network, can pass it along more broadly. But yeah, I don't think the distribution plan sounds like a particularly effective way of getting a good sample on a survey - "the chosen approach for finding our keys is using existing lampposts". Opabinia regalis (talk) 05:57, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
    Oh, and "social media channels", no, that doesn't sound right. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:12, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    Two points: a Qualtrics survey can appear with different URLs for targeting a tracking purposes, so it's possible the URL went elsewhere too; WMF is known to fabricate evidence by encouraging selection bias in its surveys, but that's hardly Rosiestep's fault and you should complain directly to whoever chose that flawed distribution strategy. Nemo 19:30, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    Fabricating evidence? What's this all about? Richard Nevell (talk) 19:32, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    And none of this notes that many trolls canvass off wiki to dogpile at their favorite pages to create a noisy and false "consensus" that is at least as misleading as what the WMF gathers from posting surveys at Meta only. The problem is that the WMF doesn't understand "the community" and they think that the people who are active in affiliates, active on Meta, and post to the Facebook groups ARE the community... where in reality there is not a lot of crossover... and more than those who post on the WP criticism sites are representative of the community. Even "the community" isn't representative of the Community. Find a central HQ... maybe the Signpost, maybe the Village Pump, maybe a Watchlist page banner... Montanabw 19:41, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    FWIW, notifying one wikiproject about a survey seems like it'll give biased statistical information out at the other end, by the very nature of a wikiproject. Not sure why you wouldn't want to post the link elsewhere. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski 19:43, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    I was just about to say something similar Montanabw. Anyone who is worried that the results might be slanted if not posted more widely is certainly welcome to post where they think the surveys will be noticed. A watchlist banner, I would see. Some of those other venues, not likely for me, but maybe for others. SusunW (talk) 19:46, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Montanabw: Yep, I think you've summed up the disconnect between WMF and the people who actually build the encyclopedia pretty much spot on. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:51, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Lee Vilenski: Absolutely, yes, that's exactly the point. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 20:01, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

    Rosiestep, The Incivility page of the Community Health Survey begins: There is a problem of incivility, harassment and overall bad behavior in the Wikimedia community. Bad behavior includes anything that makes others feel uncomfortable or unwelcome in their Wikimedia community. This seems like an overly broad definition of "bad behavior". In my experience new and not-so-new editors feel hurt and very unwelcome when their edits are changed, their articles are deleted, or their drafts are rejected at Articles for Creation. Unlike most websites that people post to, this is an encyclopedia with complicated content standards. For newer editors our rejection messages are accompanied by welcome messages with helpful links, but this doesn't make it any more "welcoming", and is often seen as insulting if editors have been here awhile. Doesn't this survey imply we must never reject anything anyone writes (other than vandalism). Shouldn't the survey be asking how we can help editors get beyond feeling uncomfortable and unwelcome for these reasons as they learn how to contribute? StarryGrandma (talk) 21:31, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

    I'm grateful to Rosiestep for letting us know about the survey, but shocked that it has been so poorly publicised otherwise to the English Misplaced Pages editing community. It, and any other attempt to ask "the community", needs to be announced in The Signpost, and perhaps in a page-header seen by editors, and possibly by stretching a definition, in the "Central discussions" template. Or it could have been announced on the talk pages of all WikiProjects. The editors who look at Meta or discuss Misplaced Pages on social media are not a representative sample, AFAIK, of the editors who create and maintain the encyclopedia. Yes, it looks like another WMF failure to understand who we, the editors, are. PamD 22:17, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

    Posted to AN and VPP. Before putting it in the watchlist notice or WP:CENT, are we able to get confirmation that the other groups, not just Community Health, are still accepting input? (Pinging Risker as the only other person active on enwiki who I can recall identifying themselves as a member of one of these groups. I also posted here, though I'm not sure exactly what the right place is among all of those subpages.) Opabinia regalis (talk) 08:22, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
    All the 9 working group survey is publicized here (where you can find the link to Qualtrics), but for know this people need to be interested and follow the Meta page. It is part of the normal process to keep up to date with developments in the discussions, nobody is informed personally. @Rosiestep did the thing that anyone would do: as is not the spokesperson for the strategy team, but only a member of one of the working groups, in addition to the public announcement has brought attention to the people with whom she collaborates directly. And for this I would like to thank her. --Camelia (talk) 08:37, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
    I'm back home from my family trip and I can see that a lively conversation is occurring here. Thanks to everyone who is participating in it and/or spreading the word about movement strategy and/or filling out the movement strategy surveys. @Boing! said Zebedee: I'm curious as to whom you are referring to here: ... and to be fair, it was a WMF employee who told the project, even if not in an official capacity? To me, it seems that you are referring to -- well, me. This is why I am asking. For the record, I've never been a WMF employee, but I was a WMF contractor (part-time; April 2017 - June 2017) on the m:Gender Diversity Mapping project. --Rosiestep (talk) 16:39, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
    Oh dear, I really thought you were (and I consider employee/contractor together - paid to do work by WMF is what I mean). Anyway, as I am mistaken, you have my sincere apology. My frustration (and annoyance) is with the lack of communication from WMF/meta/working groups to the actual Misplaced Pages editing communities who develop the encyclopedia. The current surveys are important (and I've now taken part in them), and there really should be proactive communication from those creating such surveys to the communities of editors and factory floor volunteers. If only folks close to the workings of such things get to know about them, then the results will not be representative of the people whose hard work actually builds the encyclopedia (which is the only reason any of us are here). Anyway, thanks for the clarification (and for at least mentioning one of the surveys here, otherwise I and many others would never have heard of them at all). Hope you had a good family trip. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 18:22, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
    Wearing our Wikimedia Movement Strategy hockey jerseys at Wikimania 2017
    @Boing! said Zebedee: no worries. I'm really glad it came up as maybe others thought I was a WMF employee, too. For transparency, as a volunteer, I've been involved in the Wikimedia Movement Strategy process since 2016 or 2017. In 2018, I became a member of a specific Working Group. --Rosiestep (talk) 19:22, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

    Deadline for filling out any of the 9 Working Group surveys has been extended to July 31. --Rosiestep (talk) 03:24, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

    Sports, sports, sports

    Initiative to improve coverage of women footballers

    I've just been reading Nick Levine's article A Ridiculous Gender Bias On Misplaced Pages Is Finally Being Corrected in Refinery29. It reports on an initiative supported by adidas in collaboration with a team of sports writers to create biographies of 200 women footballers who are not yet covered on Misplaced Pages.--Ipigott (talk) 07:55, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

    I see from here that it is being coordinated by Lucy Crompton-Reid, CEO of Wikimedia UK.--Ipigott (talk) 08:02, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

    And/or Rebecca Myers https://twitter.com/rebeccacmyers/status/1134409366021578752 --Tagishsimon (talk) 08:21, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
    Thanks. I can see that if you really want to find out what's going on on Misplaced Pages, you have to read Twitter. Is there anywhere a list of the 200 footballers they intend to cover and how many they have already created? It would be interesting to see how they compare with those on men. Apparently on average, those on women footballers are much shorter.--Ipigott (talk) 09:39, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
    Looks like Misplaced Pages:GLAM/Adidas & Women's World Cup; which would suggest Battleofalma & reinforce WMUK fingerprints. (Prettyplease WMUK, drop a note on this page when you do something like this, so we can cheer along.) Still some red there. Misplaced Pages-twitter and wikidata-twitter both are useful, but twitter can equally be a hideous timesink. --Tagishsimon (talk) 10:32, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
    Yes, that looks like a good source. If they are more interested in the Brits, there's also List of England women's international footballers (alphabetical).--Ipigott (talk) 10:38, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
    Checked the blue links there and found three leading to wrong people: have created Pat Davies (footballer) mini-stub and Pat Davies (disambiguation) after disentangling four people; Janet Turner (footballer) and Sarah Reed (footballer) probably have lots of links going to their namesakes and need some attention. PamD 21:39, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
    If we really want to expand coverage of women footballers, there are lots of redlinks in most of the lists under Category:Lists of women's association football players by national team. Perhaps we should include footballers as a priority for August?--Ipigott (talk) 10:46, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
    @Ipigott: I'd be up for it. I have three Canadian footballers I would like to make :) --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 22:55, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

    Just dropping in to say that there is also a coverage gap in female referees and managers, especially at the World Cup level as recent as 2015. Perhaps this can be bundled with footballers into a single redlink campaign in the near future. SounderBruce 23:03, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

    @SounderBruce: See below about the proposed yearly suggestion on sports. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 16:09, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

    @Ipigott, Megalibrarygirl, Montanabw, Rosiestep, and SusunW: and others. Wiki Loves Sport international campaign organized by WikiDonne user group started and closed the same day the FIFA Women World Cup 2019 in France. Dedicated to this event (but not exclusively to soccer and not exclusively to women bios), 151 new women footballers biographies and 34 improved + 4 new Commons categories were created in Italian, Armenian, Hausa, French and Catalan. This campiagn will continue for a long time, as the next year will be the year of 2020 Summer Olympics in Japan and 2021 will be the year of UEFA Women's Euro 2021 and then the 2022 Asian Games. And so on, all great opportunities to do something in a global way. So keep the eyes on the campaign and you are all invited, doing this together and engaging more languages has always a better impact instead of doing the things separately. Feel free to spread the word and get more people involved. Thank you, . --Camelia (talk) 10:21, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

    This is great news, Camelia.boban. And I see you've been doing a great job on the IT wiki. It would be useful to hear of any new bios you create in Italian which are not already covered in English. You are of course very welcome to let us know about any global events you are arranging. I'm also interested to hear there have been additions to the Hausa wiki. It's the first time I've had a chance to check it out.--Ipigott (talk) 11:42, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

    How to deal with sports

    In discussing Data about BLPS, Andrew Gray tells us that 46% of the BLPs on women are about athletes (i.e. sports). Should we therefore be offering more encouragement and support to those keen to improve our coverage? On our ideas page, we have been wondering whether simply to list "Sports" in general as a priority for July (possibly extending it into August), or whether it would be more productive to target specific items such as footballers, cyclists, etc. (See also the discussion of footballers on this page.) Maybe we could include a "Sport of the month" over the next few months, just as we have a geofocus. Whatever we decide, we'll need to firm things up for July about a week from now. As I'm no expert on sportswomen, it would be useful to have suggestions from those who take an interest or are keen to write biographies on sportswomen themselves. Or maybe some of you think that as the sports sector is one of the most popular on Misplaced Pages anyway, we should be concentrating on other areas. What do you think? How should we go forward?--Ipigott (talk) 10:41, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

    To quickly clarify - 46% of all BLPs are on athletes. However, those are very strongly skewed male, so they represent a smaller share of women - 32% of all female BLPs are of athletes.
    One really interesting thing I found is that there is a pronounced spike in athlete-biography curation connected with the Olympics... and that this spike is much more gender-balanced than the usual levels of article creation. Don't know to what degree that's scalable/transferable as a focus, but it's quite intriguing. Andrew Gray (talk) 11:24, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
    I've written a lot of biographies in sports, regardless of gender and whether or not they are currently living. Of the BLP sportswomen I've made, only three of them were Olympian competitors. As for other women athletes, I've focused on marathon, golf, and tennis to name a few. I tend to use Misplaced Pages:Notability (sports) to help guide me to who should have an article or not. Maybe that could help? --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 15:11, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
    In the recent past, we had an almost-year-long focus on women in science. This year, we are doing a year-long focus on women's suffrage. Maybe in 2020, because of the Summer Olympics, we could have a year-long focus on women's sports. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:14, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
    I'd support that @Rosiestep: as I tend to write a lot of sports bios! :) --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 15:16, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
    Personally, like many in the community at large, I feel we already have enough or too many sports bios in general, partly because the notability criteria are a) pretty generous, and b) much less subjective than in other fields, so arguments are fewer. Readers seem to agree, as the long tail of sports bios get very low views after a particular event is over. Of course, if you are interested in boosting statistics on coverage, sports is a good way to go. For young athletes in track & field, after a few statistics there is usually nothing much to say, so they are rather easy to write.
    Incidentally, one problem with non-star athlete BLPs is that nobody notices when they die many decades later - look at Scandinavian winter sports people from 70 years ago- so not all our "BLP"s actually may be that. We assume people are dead at 110 or something (there's a policy somewhere) unless known to be still living, which by that point will again get media coverage. See for example (this is the entire biog text):"Xaver Affentranger (born 1 December 1897, date of death unknown) was a Swiss cross-country skier, Nordic combined skier, and ski jumper who competed in the 1920s. At the 1924 Winter Olympics he finished 17th in the Nordic combined event, 22nd in the 18 km cross-country competition, and 24th in the ski jumping event. He won a bronze medal in the Nordic combined at the 1925 FIS Nordic World Ski Championships in Johannisbad." Johnbod (talk) 16:32, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
    As someone whose main focus for most of their time on wikipedia has been related to hockey, I've seen a disproportionate amount of hockey bios about men that are sub-stubs because they played one game in the World Hockey Association while Women in the CWHL don't qualify. The criteria for hockey players explicitly exclude women's leagues (WP:NHOCKEY). I have created a few bios about historical women and sports (such as Fay Biles) but I am thinking of focusing on female winners of the Paralympic Order. That way I have a list to start from. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 16:42, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
    I think a focus on women in sports can be a multi-pronged effort which might be of interest to various WiR enthusiasts. --Rosiestep (talk) 19:24, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
    • Writing the biographies on Misplaced Pages
    • Creating or adding to existing Wikidata items
    • Taking photos and/or uploading from Flickr, and adding to WikiCommons
    • Community organizing at m:Wiki Loves Sport.
    @HickoryOughtShirt?4: Thumbs up if you do go on to make female Paralympic Order recipients. I've made a few in the past i.e. Anne Ebbs and Joan Scruton. Last I check there was over ten redlinks for women recipients, so there's a decent amount of names to pick from :) --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 19:49, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
    @MrLinkinPark333: I've written Sylvana Mestre so far but I'm hoping to complete the list. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 22:53, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
    @HickoryOughtShirt?4: I'm glad you are taking the initative to turn all the redlinks blue! If you wish, I'll try to help reduce the redlinks where I can (some of the names were bit difficult to find sources last time i googled them). I also added the 2018 recipients. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 23:32, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
    Interested, and wanted to add that focusing on sports doesn't mean all the bios would be about living athletes; there are coaches, journalists, medical specialists, sports historians, sports photographers, team owners, etc. Some athletes become notable in other areas. Plenty of Olympians go on to careers in other fields; I know I've started at least one article on a motor sports pioneer who also made contributions in aviation. I'm guessing there's enough range in this topic to make it interesting for longer than a month. Penny Richards (talk) 20:29, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
    Agreed @Penny Richards: I've made coaches/referees/non-living women in sports as well. I didn't mention them cause this discussion started off with BLPs only. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 23:18, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
    We may have started off with BLPs but any focus we have on sports will of course cater for biographies of all types, whether those they cover are living or dead or are about the players or the coaches, referees, etc. Thanks Andrew Gray for enlarging on the statistic I quoted. But if the average for BLPs is 46% and women account for only 32%, then it looks to me as if more attention should urgently be given to women. I very much like Rosie's suggestion that we should have a year-long focus on sports in 2020. Maybe for this July, we should simply keep "sports" in general as a focus. Depending on how that develops, we could then return to sports in, say, September or October, specifying sports which need special attention. In the meantime, we could put some effort into creating or expanding crowd-sourced redlists. We have many Wikidata lists on different sports but we should perhaps be compiling crowd-sourced lists on athletics, badminton, basketball, cyclists, golfers, ice hockey players, skaters, skiers, swimmers, tennis players and volleyball players. Quite an agenda!--Ipigott (talk) 07:47, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

    I think it's worth nudging this discussion with regard to transgender sports competitors, for whom Misplaced Pages and Wikidata have very patchy coverage. This query may not be very good (not sure how to build a better one), but as a basic query it shows shockingly few Misplaced Pages articles in any language for transwomen sports people (at the time of writing just four women). I have read a few articles by Rachel McKinnon who is famous for writing about her experiences as a transwoman cyclist, and was astonished to find that her Wikidata entry was blank and so was missing from my own query. Transwomen in sports is a hot topic, with sports regulatory bodies being politically lobbied to change regulations and medically based definitions of how to define a "woman". Whatever a reader's interest, it would be good for the encyclopedia to have good coverage of the very few transwomen that have become notable in sports, especially considering the press and social media hostility they each receive for being trans and continuing to pursue their sports careers. --Fæ (talk) 11:27, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

    Slight tweak to the reports, Fæ: ... wdt:P106/wdt:P279* gives you items that have that occupation or a subclass of that occuption. Now 36 hits for transgender female athletes on wikidata - https://w.wiki/4$4 ; and 26 with en.wikipedia articles - https://w.wiki/4$6 ... don't think any of that undermines your argument. --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:22, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
    Ah, thanks. It's been a while since I played with SPARQL. However the report needs more tuning as we are getting results like Kaba-chan who is trans but not a sportswoman or La Veneno who was an entertainer and porn actor. The mix is probably because 'dancer' is classed as 'athlete', but just filtering on that does not seem to tweak these out.
    Here's an amended version which filters anyone with 'dancer' and subclasses, which of course might filter some people who have both a career as a dancer and a sportswoman Query. This returns 22 women, of which 7 have no article, so actually only 15 transwomen who are sportswomen on the English Misplaced Pages. Interestingly adding transmen returns 19 men and there are 7 intersex people shown. I'll tack this report on my user page for future reference. --Fæ (talk) 13:11, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
    • This is a good idea. What I just want to add is that we should not be driven by pageviews, rather the importance of the knowledge gap we aim to fill. Sometimes both usually point to the same thing though. HandsomeBoy (talk) 12:15, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
    • HandsomeBoy, I strongly agree. I've never cared about pageviews! In fact, for the longest time after I first started editing, I thought I was writing in a vacuum -that no one was reading the articles I was creating- and it didn't bother me in the least. I recognized the importance of filling the knowledge gap, one article at a time, and that was/is my motivator. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:05, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
    Fæ: May I suggest you write more bios of trans sportspeople under this month's priority on LGBTQ Women and Wiki Loves Pride. I see you are already working on Jillian Bearden.--Ipigott (talk) 06:43, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

    Female vs. male in sports

    Valereee: In answer to your earlier query on coverage of female vs. male people in sports, the Denelezh Gender Gap statistics show that on Wikidata (all language versions), only 14.34% of entries on "sports figures" are coded female compared to 85.65% for male. For "athletes", the figures are almost the same: 14.35% female vs. 85.43% male. Hope this helps.--Ipigott (talk) 07:30, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

    Ipigott, thanks, yes, it does. I was appalled by the proportion of BLP bios that are of athletes -- 46%! Almost half of the notable people alive today are notable due (or at least partially due to) their athletic accomplishment? That's astounding and very troubling. I was wondering how much of the difference in male vs. female biographies even historically could be explained by the fact we have so many athlete bios. Depending on the country, the disproprortion of men vs women professional athletes is still a major factor, and even in western countries it can only be likely catching up very recently. How much of the fact that we have only ~18% women bios can be explained by sports? Does wikipedia have a gender problem, or does wikipedia have a sports problem? --valereee (talk) 09:44, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
    I don't understand how those statistics work at all - there is clearly lots of overlapping/double counting - but I don't think they show %s as high as 46% for the "proportion of BLP bios that are of athletes" - what's your calculation there? Isn't it (both genders, round '000s) 773/3497 = 22% for "sports figures"? One thing that does seem clear is that the linked stats show people born after 1800, not BLPs. Johnbod (talk) 16:38, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
    What underpins this weirdness in stats, is the notability policies. For example everyone who ever took part in the Olympics is notable enough for a Misplaced Pages article, this includes people who never actually won anything, or set any records and for whom we know almost nothing else about them worth writing. In almost every other non-sports topic, people notable for one event might be suitable for a list, but not individual articles. This way of thinking about sports, especially that sports cups, awards, league wins, etc., all make the sportspeople notable, is not the same as the hard criteria we apply to others, including some rather well known cases of women scientist articles that have since been deleted. To my mind, a great improvement to Misplaced Pages would be to rethink whether sportspeople should be more often on notable list articles, especially when there is little to say about the person in individual articles. --Fæ (talk) 09:55, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
    Yes, it certainly does seem far easier to justify notability for people in sports (and there are huge numbers of red-linked women who appear to qualify for articles without further ado). Interestingly, the most popular occupations for women overall are artist (6.03% of all bios), author (3.23%), sports (3.17%) and actor (2.96%) whereas for men they are sports (25.35%), artist (15.40%), author (12.82%) and politician (12.14%). This is of course for all languages and time periods but it does seem to show that men will continue to thrive on Misplaced Pages as a result of their sports coverage as it represents a quarter of all the biographies and is over four times higher than for women. Even in the case of artists (the most popular occupation for women), there are two and a half more biographies about men. But if we are really interested in improving the percentage of women's biographies, it is quite obvious that the easiest way forward is to improve our coverage of women in sports. Unfortunately, I have a feeling most of the WiR participants are more interested in covering other occupations. So perhaps we need to call for more active encouragement from other wikiprojects, especially Women's sport.--Ipigott (talk) 11:29, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
    See my comments in the section above - many people feel we have too many sports bios. But we have to recognise that very many prolific editors only write one narrow type of article, on things they are interested in or know about, whether women scientists or football and footballers. And as we know, sport is a major obsession for many people, who are mostly men. In most sports the male events are far more popular than the female ones. The tv pictures of the ongoing Women's World Cup (for those who are even seeing them) show that despite a barrage of favourable media saying how it is becoming a major event etc, the stadia are perhaps 1/4 full. Judging by Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Women's sport it seems a pretty dormant project. I doubt there is much that can be done about this, and frankly the solution is to stop worrying about the statistics, or worry more selectively. It doesn't really matter all that much that there is loads of stuff on WP that hardly anybody reads. At least the sports people tend to be as keen on maintaining their articles as creating them, unlike some groupings, so the rest of us can just let them get on with it. Johnbod (talk) 16:22, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
    I'm not sure the answer is more sportswomen. Doesn't that just make us sportipedia? But I do think it's worth editors knowing -- and, really, the reader knowing, and academics and journalists knowing -- that one of the reasons Misplaced Pages is so skewed toward men's bio is that it's skewed toward sports bio. We aren't excluding women. We're just including a lot of sports figures who aren't actually notable, and many of them happen to be men. It's not sexism, or not all of it. A significant amount of it may be sportsism. --valereee (talk) 10:07, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
    Even among the athletes who pass our notability guidelines, though, women athletes aren't covered as well as men. Before this year's World Cup started, many of the women on qualifying teams didn't have articles, and outside of Europe most of the women on non-qualifying teams still don't. In contrast, nearly all of the men on pretty much any national football team, even ones from small nations with little to no international success, have articles. Even when you account for relative interest and availability of references there's still a gap. TheCatalyst31 14:58, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
    Is one problem that the "notability" criteria drawn up for some sports list specific leagues etc in which playing confers notability, and which don't include women's leagues? I'm no expert on football or hockey of various forms, etc, but can remember coming across the "But she played in X league" "X doesn't count, it's not on the list" discussions. Do we need to be campaignng to get some of those notability criteria updated to recognise the importance of women's sport? PamD 15:04, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
    There may be some exceptions, but in general there would be very strong objections to that, which I would join. There are certainly structural constraints operating against women, mostly in the past. For example the rules for football notability are pretty straightforward: "Have played for a fully professional club at a national level.... Have played FIFA recognised senior international football or football at the Olympic games....Pre-professional (amateur era) footballers to have played at the national level of league football are considered notable (no other level of amateur football confers notability)." Widen that and the gates of hell open to a flood of 2-line articles (almost all on men). The %s some here care about so much would get worse. But eg the England women's national football team only existed from 1972, and I think Women's football in England only had "fully professional club" teams even later. Plus the number of such teams is still much smaller than mens. At least they are beginning to feel able to charge for tickets. Johnbod (talk) 16:36, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
    • From the above, it looks to me as if we need to decide whether we should spend time on sportswomen simply to improve our statistics or whether we should keep chugging along with an increase of about 0.01% per week by concentrating on all the other categories. If the latter, then we should not expect to reach 20% women's biographies on the EN wiki any time soon. But it might well be useful to look more closely into how the stats would turn out if we were to exclude both male and female sports biographies. Would it be worthwhile undertaking an analysis along those lines? It might be quite revealing.--Ipigott (talk) 16:52, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
    Indeed - that would be interesting. There are also some other categories - what wd calls "Warriors" for example. Johnbod (talk) 22:39, 19 June 2019 (UTC)
    Any offers? Perhaps Andrew Gray, Tagishsimon, Maximilianklein or even someone from Denelezh. (cc Sarah)--Ipigott (talk) 07:22, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
    So, I have detailed BLP data to hand for politicians and athletes, but not other professional groups. Assuming that all 536k athlete-tagged biographies were to be excluded from the totals, even if they're people whose careers were more significant for non-sporting reasons - and there are plenty of those - we would go to something like:
    • 1100k total biographies, 20.1% female (up 2.2% from 17.9%)
    • 490k total BLPs, 28.7% female (up 6% from 22.7%)
    For the 241k politicians, same caveats, the removal would give us
    • 1400k total biographies, 18.5% female (up 0.6%)
    • 810k total BLPs, 22.6% female (down 0.1%)
    I can't give numbers for the effects of BLPs on any other groups without generating the data for them, which would take quite a while, but here's my best guesses.
    • Excluding artists (327k overall) would cause a substantial drop in % female overall (down 2.8%) and probably a similarly large drop in % female BLPs.
    • Excluding authors (243k overall) would cause a drop in % female overall (down 0.9%) and probably a similar drop in % female BLPs.
    • Excluding researchers (160k overall) would cause a small rise in % female overall (up 0.3%), but I can't predict the BLP effect.
    • Excluding military figures (75k overall, possibly undercounting?) would cause a small rise in % female overall (up 0.5%), and probably a similarly small rise in % female BLPs.
    • And on the sports theme: excluding only professional footballers (170k overall) would cause a substantial rise in % female overall (1.7%) and probably a similarly large rise in female BLPs.
    As noted above, the big caveat here is that these groupings are very broad and don't always reflect someone's main notability. I haven't yet worked out a way to do "only purely sports people", for example. It's reasonable to assume that if we could draw such a distinction, the general trend would be the same but the effects less pronounced. Andrew Gray (talk) 11:55, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
    • Comment - From everything that's been written on this page in the last 2-3 weeks regarding Sports, it's clear there is a lot of interest in the topic. The fact that focusing on Sports would also improve the % of women's biographies is a plus. So I'm recommending that we make Sports one of our topics in July as well as August! --Rosiestep (talk) 15:38, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

    Should we develop non-sports stats?

    From all the above, it really does look as if Misplaced Pages has a much stronger focus on sports than on any other sector. Up to now, we've been discussing biographies but there are also countless articles about clubs, competitions, leagues, teams, national events, etc., etc. Whether we like it or not, it looks to me as if we are already dealing with a kind of "Sportipedia". On the basis of the figures suggested by Andrew Gray, if we were to eliminate sports biographies, we would already have exceeded 20% for women today. And it looks to me as if the percentage would continue to rise more quickly than at present as we have a significantly higher proportion of biographies of male sportspeople each and every week. I have therefore been seriously wondering if we should set up some kind of mechanism for monitoring progress on women's biographies without sports, publishing updated stats at least four times a year, perhaps even more frequently. That might make for a much more encouraging environment for our participants who do not regularly create articles on sports and sportspeople. It would not mean we should discontinue writing biographies on women in sports but I believe it would provide a more encylopedic perspective on how well we are progressing.--Ipigott (talk) 11:17, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

    I don't think having separate stats outside of sports would be beneficial, as that would be excluding a part of all of the overall percentage of women biographies. Alternatively, yes I make a lot of sports biographies but I've made a lot that specifically pass the WP:SPORTS criteria. If i didn't, then Diede de Groot, Wendy Williams (diver), and Kristy Johnston, for example, would still be redlinks. As there are male biographies being written about Grand Slam, Olympic and World Marathon Majors winners, the women in these events should also be covered as well. However, sports are not my only topic I write about either :) --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 18:54, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
    I think this is a very good idea - that already 29% of BLP bios are female if sports is excluded came as a shock to me & no doubt will to others. Keeping an eye on these figures seems important. Also refining and checking them - I remain very suspicious that the footballer BLP figures contain enough supposedly very old people, who in reality passed away years ago, to make a difference to the figures. At the same time (having looked around English women's football) it seems clear we don't have lots of bios for current players. Some current team squads are all blue, but for others only the international players are. I found our articles unhelpful as to whether a team counted as "fully professional". Johnbod (talk) 21:14, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

    Cue sports

    Hi! I've recently been doing some bios (as well as tournaments, another articles) for pool articles (and other cue sports like Snooker), and there is a huge gulf in blue link women pool players. There are literally hundreds of notable players such as Kristina Tkach who I recently created. I see you have a list of redlinked people by profession, but there isn't a list for Cue sports (or pool in general). Could this be something I could look into? I'd like to start with some players that have the most redlinks before working down.

    (The men's isn't THAT much better, but a bracket like at 2019 Austria Open is night and day for bios.)

    Thanks for any help you can offer! Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski 18:48, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

    Hi @Lee Vilenski: - for wikidata redlists, at least, it depends on there being a wikidata item for a person, with an appropriate Occupation= value, such as billiards player, snooker player, cue sport player. Thin pickings, but here's a start: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Cue sport players. It may be that if you can point to lists of female players, we can import them into wikidata and/or improve coding within wikidata to improve the redlist offering. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:10, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
    Gotcha. So someone like this doesn't show up as no job is defined? Does having an azbilliards indentifier help with this? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski 20:45, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
    azbilliards ID doesn't help much. I've added it to the select; we're now up to 29 items. There are only 285 instances of that ID on wikidata, presumably mostly for men and/or women with articles. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:57, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
    Worth a try. AZB is on articles I've created, but I don't know about wikidata. I'll see if there are any others I can find anything else that might help. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski 21:01, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

    More sports-related Wikidata lists

    Is there a Wikidata list for Paralympians, e.g. "participant of" (P1344) + "1964 Summer Paralympics" (Q748663)? If not, would someone be inclined to create it before July 1, when we start our Sports event? Thanks. --Rosiestep (talk) 20:17, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

    @Rosiestep: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Paralympians. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:57, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
    ♥ Tagishsimon --Rosiestep (talk) 21:03, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
    Per earlier conversations, it would also be good to have these Wikidata lists: coach (Q41583), referee (Q202648) (including subgroups of: official (Q1757103), boxing referee (Q2859667), referee (Q721051), mixed martial arts referee (Q52008305), referee (Q47530518)). Thanks. --Rosiestep (talk) 20:25, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
    @Rosiestep: I made the list for coach (Q41583) which is available at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Coaches, it should be filled in by the bot soon. I can take a look at making the referee list tomorrow, I haven't made a list with a group of occupations before but that seems like a fun challenge for myself. --Redalert2fan (talk) 00:43, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
    Redalert2fan, wonderful; thank you! BTW, I added the list to our Sports editathon page, and to the Index of redlists. --Rosiestep (talk) 00:49, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
    There appear to be some problems with Listeriabot and manual updating right now so unfortunately I can't make and check the list at the moment. Redalert2fan (talk) 15:48, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

    Would it be possible to create a Wikidata link for Rugby League please? The women's game is growing strongly and there are adminstrators and match officials that should have biographies too. Rtande (talk) 06:19, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

    @Rtande: So what you want is a redlist like Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Women in Red/Missing articles by occupation/Rugby Union but then for the Rugby League? I checked and there are only 3 women players with the occupation rugby league player (Q14373094) on wikidata, 0 with the occupation rugby league coach (Q59239421) and there is no wikidata item for rugby league administrators. It certainly is possible to create a list, but unless I am missing some occupations/looking at the wrong ones the list will be quite short at the moment. It could also be that some of the women you are thinking of do have an item on wikidata already, but don't have the aforementioned occupations set meaning they don't show up right now. Or they do not exist on wikidata. Please tell me what you want me to do. --Redalert2fan (talk) 00:13, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

    Football at Olympics

    In terms of specific notability guidelines, I wanted to find out if football at Olympics is seen as inferior to other tournaments with respect to determining the notability of footballers. I know this is the case for men, but it shouldn't be so for women since there is no age restriction, am I right? HandsomeBoy (talk) 20:13, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

    It doesn't seem to be the case for men. WP:NFOOTBALL: "Players who have played in ... the Olympic Games." WP:NOLYMPICS: "Athletes from any sport are presumed notable if they have competed at the modern Olympic Games". So, they're all notable and the competition is not seen as inferior. The only thing that seems to stink a little in this area is "or have won a medal at the Paralympic Games", because paralympians are still seen as some sort of second class athlete. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:23, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
    WP:NFOOTBALL covers women as well as men, and it is unhelpful to imply otherwise. Johnbod (talk) 03:31, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Johnbod: I didn't imply otherwise and I cannot parse my reply to construe your rather odd & mistaken take on it. I was responding to the point "football at Olympics is seen as inferior to other tournaments ... I know this is the case for men". --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:13, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
    "It doesn't seem to be the case for men. WP:NFOOTBALL: "Players who have played in ... the Olympic Games...." seems to have that clear implication to me, but I'm glad if this was not intended. Johnbod (talk) 03:35, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
    Well let me take you through it very slowly. HandsomeBoy made the assertion that they know it is the case for men that football at Olympics is seen as inferior to other tournaments, and wondered if that applied also to women. I replied that his assertion was not correct, and that two notability guidelines specified that all athletes who competed at Olympics were notable. I still entirely fail to see how you can construe that as an unhelpful comment about the notability of women footballers. ""It doesn't seem to be the case for men" says implies nothing about women. "Players who have played in ... the Olympic Games..." seems to imply that all players who have so played are notable, but even if you apply a hostile construction that for some reason I had applied that to men only, in so far as the thesis in the question was 'because men therefore women', in the context of the question establishing the notability of male olymiad footballers would establish the notability of females. I continue to take strong exception to the clarity of your impression of an implication which is wholly absent. --Tagishsimon (talk) 07:34, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
    Thanks for the reply, it must have been another platform where I got the wrong impression. HandsomeBoy (talk) 20:54, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
    WP:NOLY is pretty clear that any athlete that appears at an Olympics is defacto notable. Whether that's true in practice is up for debate (SNG vs GNG). I thought a national cap was enough for inclusion per WP:NFOOTY anyway? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski 21:20, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

    Edit-a-thons?

    I've been wondering: has anyone considered reaching out to a local sports team to see if they'd be interested in participating in an edit-a-thon related to women's sports? Many sports teams already do family days and other things like that, so it seems like it would be a natural fit. Besides which, it might be an opportunity to work some with younger fans and give them a chance to try their hand at editing. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoLo dicono a Signa. 01:41, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

    Suzanne Eaton

    New article on murdered scientist, which has been nominated at ITN for inclusion in recent deaths. If anyone could help out with expanding and making her notability more clear it would be great. On a quick glance the citation record looks strong to me. Espresso Addict (talk) 01:24, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

    The article is fine and her citation record is superlative. How sad to learn of the untimely death of a person, particularly one of such great achivement. Xxanthippe (talk) 03:01, 10 July 2019 (UTC).

    List of 5,000 women composers

    In connection with the item "Looking for more sources" above, I have found a complete list of all those listed in the International Encyclopedia of Women Composers at The Music Sack. By clicking on a name, you can also find other sources in which the composer is mentioned. It looks like a useful source for Wikidata too. I was wondering if there is any easy way of finding out which names are still redlinks in the EN wiki without having to edit them all manually. I have checked out the first 20 names and see that only three of them have articles. (cc SL93).--Ipigott (talk) 10:43, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

    Ipigott, Something like this? I count 2715 redlinks. Vexations (talk) 11:34, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
    Good work, Vexations; thanks. Fancy moving it to the same list-name format as others of its ilk at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Women_in_Red/Redlist_index#Dictionaries_and_other_reference_books? --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:26, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
    Tagishsimon, I can do the CS format. Vexations (talk) 12:39, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
     Done the list is now at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Women_in_Red/Missing_articles_by_dictionary/International_encyclopedia_of_women_composers and I have added an entry to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Women in Red/Redlist index Vexations (talk) 21:48, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
    This is awesome. You people did great work. SL93 (talk) 16:27, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
    Fantastic! A friendly reminder to please add the list to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Women_in_Red/Redlist_index#Dictionaries_and_other_reference_books. Thanks! --Rosiestep (talk) 18:37, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
    This is great. I've been updating links to existing bios and will continue to do so in the next day or two. Oronsay (talk) 23:49, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

    Clone of RonBot #11 requested

    Hi everyone, just wanted to let you know that I've requested a clone of User:RonBot#11 at Misplaced Pages:Bot_requests#Clone_of_RonBot_#11. As the bot has not run for 3 months, and User:Ronhjones has also not been active since then (and his email has been disabled), it seems sadly that he may not be able to run it any longer. It was so useful in identifying declined drafts that we could assess for notability and work up into articles about notable women, and I would really like to resurrect it, so I'm hoping one of the bot operators can clone it and get it running again. RebeccaGreen (talk) 04:22, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

    Faces of Progress.

    A little initiative I set myself, and, while I don't necessarily think everyone has to be female for it, I'd like quite a few to be. (Though Civil Rights activists and the like are also highly viable contenders, although I'd prefer to not have too many straight white men; people will find straight white men to hold up without my help). It's listed at User:Adam_Cuerden#Faces_of_Progress, and I could use suggestions for the remaining (sigh) 41 states. Would like to finish this before the person who inspired it leaves office. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 15:38, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

    I don't actually want to ask you to do another photo until the Inter-Allied Women's Conference one is done, but I am rationalizing this as I am not asking you, rather you asked. Wilma Mankiller would be awesome for Oklahoma, though I am not sure any of the images we have are PD and I couldn't find any working on her article. Possibly instead then Kate Barnard? SusunW (talk) 18:11, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
    What a terrific project! Browsing {{United States Women's Halls of Fame}}, I found the following women who may be good candidates:
    Do any of those fit the bill? nonmodernist (talk) 19:11, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
    I think I'm going to have to reject Felton. Though she has good points, "a white supremacist and slave owner; and one of the few prominent women who spoke in favor of lynching" is maybe not the best example. As for the others, since this is my project, a.k.a. me trying to find images to do restoration on, it's going to be down to the availability of images in need of that. That said, I'm definitely nominating Dauenhauer for FP. That's a great image. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 20:27, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
    Belatedly here to say yikes @ myself re: Felton... I went by images without reading the actual articles, which was clearly not the best strategy. Lesson learned! nonmodernist (talk) 00:17, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
    How about these?
    Nick Number (talk) 20:03, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
    Going to have to research to see what images are available, but they all seem worthy. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 20:33, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
    Happy to chip in some ideas from my starts; all have images, but not great ones, so there's the possibility of better. Penny Richards (talk) 23:58, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
    Following in the footsteps of Penny Richards, I'm happy to chip in some ideas from my starts/improves. All have images, but not great ones, so there's the possibility of improving them. --Rosiestep (talk) 21:13, 13 July 2019 (UTC)


    The nice thing about a memoir is that they're usually out there. I found this: http://www.eldreds.com/auctions/detail/item/256188/sale/933/dept/1 which has a fairly high-res scan of the title page and frontispiece. A little cleanup, and there we go! Think I'll start there. Haven't found anything on some of the people in the lists yet, but then, there's a lot of archives and I probably don't even know about some of them. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 06:30, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

    @Rosiestep: File:Frontispiece and title page of The Memoirs of Elleanor Eldridge (1840) - Original.jpg Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 06:41, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

    @Adam Cuerden: ♥ --Rosiestep (talk) 14:35, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

    I am not at all cognizant of what is being requested. I'm new to the ins and outs of this page. Can somebody, anybody, elucidate. Thanks. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 05:59, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

    Mid-ish July FP report

    Well! The previous set is cleared, hell, we've had one pass since then. As usual of late, I'm not linking the nominations directly to avoid accidentally creating a voting guide, but those interested may go to WP:FPC and look around there. So, without further ado: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adam Cuerden (talk • contribs) 09:22, July 11, 2019 (UTC)

    • Kristina Inhof, our newest FP as of, like, 5 minutes ago. Kristina Inhof, our newest FP as of, like, 5 minutes ago.
    • We Can Do It! the FP restoration I... kind of stole from Yann - who was completely capable of doing it - because I really should wait more than one day after volunteering to do it if Yann didn't want to. We Can Do It! the FP restoration I... kind of stole from Yann - who was completely capable of doing it - because I really should wait more than one day after volunteering to do it if Yann didn't want to.
    • Nell Mercer, of the somewhat underdeveloped article. Nell Mercer, of the somewhat underdeveloped article.
    • Lillian Feickert, New Jersey suffragette and first woman from New Jersey to run for the United States Senate. Lillian Feickert, New Jersey suffragette and first woman from New Jersey to run for the United States Senate.


    One request, somewhat related: Looking in the Suffrage event pages, I found File:She. It is time I got out of this place. Where Shall I Find The Key? Convicts Lunatics and Women! Have no vote for Parliament, ca. 1907-1918. (16052110985).jpg, which is a brilliant example of British pro-suffrage posters. If anyone knows more articles it could be put in, please do; it'll help it at FPC in the near future. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 17:07, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

    Hmm, a somewhat un-pc image as regards "Convicts" & "Lunatics"! Johnbod (talk) 17:32, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
    Oh, agreed, but no point whitewashing the past (otherwise, we knock off all the rough edges, and mislead), and I get the point: Men had to do something to be excluded, women were excluded by default. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 20:20, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
    Added it to Disability in the United Kingdom. The article needs more historical content anyway, and this kind of message was a common form of disablism in the suffrage movement. Penny Richards (talk) 22:35, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
    Nice one, Penny! Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 03:52, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

    Copy-edit

    I was wondering if someone could copy-edit Ann Peterson if it needs one. I don't really feel confident in writing sports articles, but I do want to nominate this one for DYK. SL93 (talk) 17:44, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

    I've tweaked it a little, added an official Olympics source, and also made a redirect from her full name Ann Stewart Peterson and added her to Peterson (name). Not sure about the tone of the anecdote about the 10-second business. PamD 18:13, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
    I took a look too. There's a few things that didn't get explained for me. What did she win to qualify for the Olympic team? I'm with PamD and think the timing for broadcast is an odd one. Hope this is of some help Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski 18:14, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
    @SL93: Unconvinced by the ABC anecdote. Bit "so what" from me. "Twelve men in the control room prayed for Peterson to leave the platform". Uh-huh; high drama. Encyclopaedic version would be "ABC television managed to encompass an athlete actually doing something" and would for that reason not feature in an encyclopedia. --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:46, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
    I'm still looking for more information, but this is from the 1960s. SL93 (talk) 18:57, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
    This would likely answer that question, but I can't read it. I'm tired of paywalls for non-modern topics. SL93 (talk) 19:04, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

    @Lee Vilenski: I removed the ABC mention and I thought that the "What did she win to qualify for the Olympic team?" was already answered by the article with "During this time, she gained a spot on the United States' Olympic diving team by competing in the women's 10 meter platform competition for the Olympic trials" and "She was in the lead going into the finals with 169.86 points, later adding 46.74 points, 50.82 points, and 51.75 points to her last three dives". SL93 (talk) 21:46, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

    @Tagishsimon: I changed the entire entry to this - "Peterson diving was the first footage recorded by ABC for the 1968 Summers Olympics coverage airing in the eastern United States." I think that is notable enough for an encyclopedia and historic coverage. SL93 (talk) 21:58, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
    @SL93: That's very much better & unimpeachably encyclopaedic. thx. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:58, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
    SL93 I was looking for coverage of her 1967 Pan Am medal, found a bonus article that she won 2 golds that same year in the National Intercollegiate Championships. SusunW (talk) 22:03, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
    Awesome. Thank you so much. SL93 (talk) 22:05, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
    De nada. Couldn't find the NYT article, but I think you've done a solid job on the article without it. SusunW (talk) 22:12, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
    I happen to have a NYT subscription, that article was from an AP wire story. By searching for a key phrase in newspapers.com, I came up with another version of the same wire story that has all the relevant text from the NYT about Peterson, and BONUS, includes photos of Peterson. See it here on newspapers.conm I don't think it adds any details that aren't in the "Ann Peterson Wins Diving" reference which looks to have been derived from the same AP wire report, but you might want to add it so folks can go see the photo? Cheers. --Krelnik (talk) 15:17, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
    Thanks. I went ahead and added it to an external links section. SL93 (talk) 15:26, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

    Linda T. Metcalf

    Can anybody help me out here? I deleted this biography (and an associated article on Proprioceptive Writing) per WP:G11, but I think it's possible to write a reasonable encyclopedia article out of it (and I'm happy to put the deleted articles in userspace if it would be helpful). I've made a one sentence stub at Draft:Linda Metcalf confirming her university post (and hence a presumed WP:PROF) but I'm not sure what to do next. If anyone can help, that would be great. Ritchie333 20:23, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

    Well, just tell what her job is or was and what her background is, for a start. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 06:04, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
    Added a selfpub source with a lot of biog info, but nothing to support notability. PamD 07:04, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

    Talk:Main_Page#Graphic_but_educational_image_of_intersex_person_on_main_page?

    Despite the misleading title, this is about the image of an intersex person that was discussed before. It's not particularly graphic, it's simple nudity. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 21:30, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

    Birth date

    I started gathering sources for an the article Jill Schlabach from Diving at the 1991 Pan American Games and even though I found quite a bit of information to use, I am unable to locate her birth date. SL93 (talk) 06:44, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

    This article puts her at 25 in 1991. So that would make her birth year 1965 or 1966. That's the most I've been able to find. Nick Number (talk) 14:38, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
    There's a template to use here, {{birth based on age as of date}}:
    (born {{birth based on age as of date |25|1991|June|17|noage=1|mos=1}})
    appears as "(born 1965 or 1966)". PamD 21:43, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
    Thanks. I will use that. SL93 (talk) 21:44, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

    Alexis McGill Johnson

    Later tonight I'm going to get an article up (unless someone beats me to it!) for Alexis McGill Johnson, who was named acting president of Planned Parenthood today. She should have an article. Marquardtika (talk) 21:28, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

    Use of patronymic name?

    Hey there! I am writing an article about Maria van Pallaes. Her full name was "Mayken (first name) Lubbert (middle name) van Pallaesdr. (patronymic name, means 'daughter of Van Pallaes' as her father's surname was Van Pallaes)". Normally, we would use her given name. In this case, though, her common name is "Maria van Pallaes" (without "dr.", which means 'daughter of'), as in, she started using her father's surname as her own surname, instead of the patronymic name she was given. As such, I'm not sure whether to use Van Pallaes or Maria when referring to her in the article. --MrClog (talk) 21:09, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

    MrClog Always a difficult situation. I would avoid using her first name and since the common name now appears to be Van Pallaes, I would use that. Great start on the draft by the way. SusunW (talk) 21:46, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
    Remember to make redirects from all plausible variations of her name, to help readers and to avoid the risk of a future editor creating a duplicate article. The Dutch wiki article has a link to her will which you probably know already, and refers to her throughout as "Maria van Pallaes" which may be right for their MOS but isn't what we use in en.wiki. PamD 06:59, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
    I'd go with "van Pallaes" consistently. It looks really wrong to capitalise the "van" to me. That said, remember to redirect from all variations with both "van" and "Van", because, annoyingly, capitalisation matters! Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 10:27, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
    Adam Cuerden, in Dutch, the tussenvoegsel is capitalised when it is not preceded by a first name or initial. There are no tussenvoegsels in English, so I figured I would follow the Dutch spelling. --MrClog (talk) 23:37, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

    Mid-to-late July FP report

    Everything from the last report has passed, or is passing. Which is nice! So, let's cover the new stuff! And I'm barely present in it for once. I think that's a good thing.

    Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 07:56, 18 July 2019 (UTC)


    Oh, and for the record, WiR had 8 featured pictures in June, out of 47 total (counting the train photography that was broken up into many files for size reasons as one file). I make something like 16 FPs in that time that are connected to men in sufficient ways that they'd come under WiR were those men female. E.g. opera posters (male composers/artists), pictures of men, architecture (presuming I'm reading the architect right), and so on. That's not perfect, but it's way better than things used to be. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 21:24, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

    Brit needed for ce at Asma Khan

    Could someone familiar with colleges and locations in England take a look at this article? I'm reading Indian and UK sources and am not sure I'm interpreting them/wikilinking them correctly. Thanks for any help! --valereee (talk) 13:49, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

    Colleges linked according to references.14GTR (talk) 14:13, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
    Thanks 14GTR and Ipigott! --valereee (talk) 14:55, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
    But someone needs to do the many WP:ENGVAR spellings. Johnbod (talk) 14:58, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
    Johnbod: I wasn't aware that there was any need to use British English spelling and grammar in biographies about English citizens, especially those born in India. If so, many of our American contributors would no doubt be unhappy to write about Brits. The article looks fine to me the way it is.--Ipigott (talk) 12:00, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
    Well, you learn a little every day! See WP:ENGVAR. Of course it could use Indian English, but the spellings here would still need adjusting. She never seems to have lived elsewhere - if she had made her career in Nth America it would of course be different. Try writing a bio of an all-American subject in British English & see what happens. Johnbod (talk) 13:39, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
    American contributor here, and I do try to use British English spellings/vocabulary when I know they're appropriate to the subject, as best I can. It's not that difficult to make an effort. I'm always happy to see (and thank) subsequent editors fixing whatever I get wrong in vocabulary or spelling.Penny Richards (talk) 16:27, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

    Fun little statistic

    Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Women_in_Red/Showcase#Featured pictures It auto-updates with the current total number of featured pictures (approximately; it depends on PAGESINCATEGORY:Featured pictures for its count) and just requires us to update the count passed to it when new FPs are added to the Showcase. I was surprised to discover that we're likely to have had more featured pictures this year than in our entire history previous to this (43 so far this year compared to 66 before, if I remember correctly), though that may be that I've been trying harder to keep track of relevant images this year. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 10:53, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

    These are great stats Adam Cuerden! Photographs are IMO very important as they give a "feel" for who, what, where, when in a way that mere words cannot. I truly appreciate what you do for us. SusunW (talk) 13:59, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
    It should probably be noticed that the WiR Wikiproject FPs are not the complete set of women-related FPs. It doesn't include anything from before the project started, and may have missed some. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 00:05, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

    August programming at WiR

    We'd like to sort out our August programming within the next 48 hours or so; your comments are welcome here. Regarding programming for September and beyond, stop by any time at the Ideas Cafe; hope to see you there! Thanks! --Rosiestep (talk) 16:20, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

    We're talking about making Linkage+Findability an August event, or a December event, or an on-going event (perhaps through the end of the 2019; perhaps longer). Your comments about this are welcome in this section, or our events planning page, here. --Rosiestep (talk) 17:21, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

    Anna Whitehead Bodeker—help with finding photo?

    I'm planning to move an article on Anna Whitehead Bodeker to the main space this weekend—she led the first attempt to organize for women's suffrage in Virginia *and* helped found the Virginia State Woman Suffrage Association, the first association of its kind in the state. I would love help finding a photo of her to include. She lived between 1826 and 1904 in Richmond, Virginia. Any help you can give would be so appreciated.ScoutHarris (talk) 14:34, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

    ScoutHarris Once again am surprised at how hard Richmond is. Nothing that I could find in newspapers.com, newspaperarchive.com, hathitrust, archive.org or the Library of Congress. Found a picture of her husband, but don't know when it was first published or who took it. There is an article about her in Virginia Cavalcade Volume 43, Number 4, Spring 1994, p 166-. Don't know if you have access to check it, but our resident librarian Megalibrarygirl might be able to find the copy located at UT-El Paso. If there is a photo in that article, you will probably have to upload it as fair use (deceased person), i.e. not to commons to en.WP, unless there is a clear indication of when the photo was first published. SusunW (talk) 17:29, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
    I also looked in various places, but wasn't able to find anything online. The fact that the Library of Virginia and this video only show her house suggests that there may not be an accessible published portrait. Nick Number (talk) 17:33, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
    Yes, the only thing I’ve been able to find is that image of her home, but it’s part of the collection at the Virginia Historical Society. Thanks for trying!ScoutHarris (talk) 17:44, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
    @ScoutHarris: there is a Wiki editor, ReaderofthePack who lives in Virginia I believe. They might have access to the Virginia Cavalcade at a library branch near them. So far, I'm not having any luck. :( Megalibrarygirl (talk) 18:10, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Megalibrarygirl: Ah good idea. I’m also in Virginia. I’m guessing the Library of Virginia would have it. I can try that route. Thanks. ScoutHarris (talk) 18:24, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
    @ScoutHarris: perhaps Ser Amantio di Nicolao might know of some options? --Rosiestep (talk) 18:29, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Rosiestep:I’ve located a copy at Union Seminary that I believe I can access. Fingers crossed! Thank you!ScoutHarris (talk) 18:40, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
    My dissertation was on 19c. Southern white women, and it really wasn't unusual for even a fairly wealthy woman to never have a portrait made or a photograph taken. She might just be one of those. But a picture of her house or her signature, a historical marker or a tombstone, might still be possible.Penny Richards (talk) 18:31, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Penny Richards: I’m definitely finding that to be the case! She’s buried at a cemetery here in Richmond, so it might be worth heading over and taking a photo of her tombstone myself. ScoutHarris (talk) 18:41, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
    • Coming in a little late, but hopefully you can find a picture. Something to keep in mind is that it's entirely possible that the LVA may have a picture of her but it hasn't been scanned yet. When I was volunteering for them I was able to see how backlogged they were with digitizing their offerings, so a lot of the stuff gets digitized based on user demand. If there is one you can request it get scanned - they're really good about that. If there's not one it could be a result of the portrait getting lost over time or the family not making it accessible. Families can get a little protective. This book is a great example of that - the family kept the letters private for years because the letters were part of a fairly juicy scandal. Long story short, Sally McDowell divorced her abusive husband (the governor of Maryland) and was expecting to live the rest of her life alone because of the stigma of divorce in those days, only for a local preacher to fall in love with her and ask to marry her. She kept refusing because she was afraid of ruining his career and some of her family members were against the marriage. (She was also from a fairly distinguished family.) Pretty scandalous stuff for the time period, but mundane by ours, but the family kept the letters private for a surprising amount of time. Anywho, couldn't help but recommend that book - it's pretty fascinating. ReaderofthePack(formerly Tokyogirl79) (｡◕‿◕｡) 14:04, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

    August's Indigenous Women event and the REDress Project

    Buffy Sainte-Marie at Riddu Riđđu 2019

    Would anyone be interested in writing an article about the REDress Project and/or its creater Jaime Black for the August event on indigenous women? I'm not sure I could write an article about it that wouldn't get AfD'd right away. With luck, some of the photos I took at Riddu Riđđu of the Buffy Sainte-Marie-Tanya Tagaq-Maxida Märak concert will be sharp enough to be useable since the red dress was prominently displayed on stage then. Thanks! -Yupik (talk) 01:21, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

    On a side note, we've uploaded some photos already and will be uploading more to this cat on Commons. -Yupik (talk) 01:38, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
    That's really not bad. Don't think it'd pass at WP:FPC, but that's more down to quality-of-camera issues than anything you did. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 02:33, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Adam Cuerden: Thanks! Any and all recommendations and suggestions on where to start improving are greatly appreciated since I have no background in photography, particularly since I'm often in a position to take photos of subjects that we might not have photos for yet. Yupik (talk) 12:42, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
    Honestly, you're better asking Rhododendrites, who is a much better photographer than me. I'm more of a restorationist of older photos. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 18:46, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
    Thanks for the vote of confidence, Adam. :) I'm far from a pro, but happy to share what I've learned in the course of trying to take good pictures for Commons. I think in general it's quite a good shot. I think the issue is less your equipment and more that concert photography is really challenging for anyone. It's usually dark, people are often moving, it can be hard to hold the camera still, and did I mention how it's usually dark and they're always moving? :) From a technical standpoint, the biggest problem here is probably the 1/40 shutter speed IMO. At that speed, you really need to have a pretty static subject, so it would be practically impossible to get this subject very sharp at that speed. Would be better to increase ISO and keep speed a bit faster. Higher ISO will introduce noise, but you can fix some of that in post-processing. If your lens allows it, you could also open the aperture more (use a lower number than f/5.6), which lets more light in, but makes for a narrower depth of field (so you'd need to be careful to ensure you're focusing on the subject and not, say, on the microphone or background). The red dress is indeed kind of distracting, but there's not much to be done about that. :) Just to clarify, this feedback is because of the above request for feedback. This is absolutely good enough/sharp enough to use in a Misplaced Pages article. Thanks for uploading it! — Rhododendrites \\ 19:05, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
    Aye. They're DEFINITELY good enough for articles, and a lot of other uses. This is more how to get to featured picture status. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 19:41, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
    This is brilliant, thanks! The suggestions helped me figure out what I need to be looking at whereas before I was just lost as to what to do. I think I might go out practicing shooting in low light this week in general to figure that out first and then maybe I'll be ready for the next concert. -Yupik (talk) 22:24, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
    Happy to try to write something on the project as I can see some obvious sources that meet the need for media coverage. I’m less sure about the BLP side of things. As ever, I’ll appreciate some help with the wikidata side of things and will bring it back here when I think it’s ready for livespace. Moira Paul (talk) 22:17, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
    Thank you so much! I should be able to help out with the Wikidata side if there's any problems. -
    The project itself has plenty of coverage so that page should be straightforward. There's very little coverage of Jaime Black apart from in relation to the project, so any article is liable to be a stub. I'll prioritise the project as if that passes notability then a biog stub is more likely to survive. Moira Paul (talk) 10:38, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

    Sikhanyiso Dlamini

    I was poking around the Eswatini page in preparation for August's proposed country lists, and found a couple images of her I think have a good chance. But I'm having some trouble judging between them, so what does everyone think of these?

    • Option 1 Option 1
    • Option 2 Option 2

    Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 02:52, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

    They're both lovely photos (I have a niece in eSwatini right now, so this caught my eye). I would choose option 1 mainly for the eye contact. Penny Richards (talk) 05:31, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
    I particularly like the first one too for the same reason Penny gave. -Yupik (talk) 13:08, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
    Right! I've nominated it. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 14:17, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
    Interesting to know that the second image is even being considered. I would have argued it was not very appropriate for Misplaced Pages. HandsomeBoy (talk) 20:30, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
    Oh, grow up. Breasts exist, and this is a celebration of chastity, so it's clear they're not considered sexual. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 01:51, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
    Hi. Thanks for your comment, but it seemed a bit unfriendly. What do you think? Sincerely, BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 05:28, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
    Sorrym just.. y'know. If we can't handle non-sexualised breasts from a culture that doesn't have the same taboos about them, we're kind of being super prudish. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 15:09, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

    Mims Butterworth

    I'll just leave this link here, Mims Butterworth, along with some references. To research this I recommend searching newspaper archives. Much of her public activity was in the pre-Internet era. Jehochman 16:40, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

    Thanks Jehochman, after a brief scan of your links, her life was definitely fascinating. I'm hip-deep in writing another article, but if someone doesn't tackle it before I can get to it, I'll be glad to give it a go.SusunW (talk) 19:37, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
    Thanks! I can pitch in too, but wanted to see if others agree that she seems to be notable. Jehochman 19:55, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
    Here's what I came up with. Her common name appears to be Miriam Butterworth (and that is the name of the art gallery named after her at Hartford College).1982 is the first mention I find of it. There are tons of articles about her, but these should be sufficient to write a comprehensive biography.1971; 1979; 1981; 1981; 1984; 1985; 1997; and 2002; and 2008 SusunW (talk) 05:59, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

    Criminals?

    Have we ever focussed on criminals? Are you're getting a bit jaded of researching and writing about the great and the good? Sugar and spice and all things nice makes for a rather unhealthy and boring diet. Step over to the dark side, cover the notorious and the evil for a change. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 22:53, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

    Oh yes we did baddies and we also did spies - great subjects. Victuallers (talk) 23:12, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
    How about a Women in Red article collaboration for October on murderers and serial killers? It's Hallowe'en appropriate. Adam Cuerden Has about 6.8% of all FPs 22:45, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
    Yes, we've done villains and prisoners and spies (not all of them necessarily "baddies", of course). But I hardly ever write about nice, sweet people. I write about women in all their complexity and contexts. Some of them did good things, and might even be admirable in some ways, but I agree with you that a person definitely doesn't have to be nice or good to be notable. Penny Richards (talk) 16:58, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

    4 years in and in the press

    This week our Antarctic Women collaboration is mentioned in TIME magazine and Jess Wade gives us a call out in the New York Times. Victuallers (talk) 23:18, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

    Idea for September: Women in World War II

    Hey people! On 1 September 1939, World War II started with the invasion of Poland by nazi-Germany. This year, this will be 80 years ago. Whilst almost soldiers were men, there are numerous important female figures during the war, including politicians, resistance fighters, etc. As such, I propose dedicating an event in September to Women in World War II. --MrClog (talk) 23:16, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

    Hm, interesting idea, but my feeling is that eighty years is not a very good hook for an anniversary series. Why not a hundred years? Besides the obvious ratification of the women's suffrage amendment to the U.S. Constitution, we have the rebuilding of Europe and much of Africa and Oceania in 1919 after the end of WWI. So far as October 1919 goes, we have Oct 19, the first US Distinguished Service Medal awarded to a living female recipient, Anna Howard Shaw. How about a series of article about women who have won medals of one sort of another? BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 04:59, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

    Need photos from Hollywood Cemetery?

    If anyone is in need of a photo of a gravestone or grave marker for someone buried in Hollywood Cemetery in Richmond, Virginia, please let me know. I live close by and am happy to help.ScoutHarris (talk) 16:05, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

    The following women have articles but no photos of their grave markers: Kate Langley Bosher, Ellen Glasgow, Mary Johnston, Elizabeth Monroe, Mary-Cooke Branch Munford, Emma Gilham Page, Cornelia Peake McDonald, Sallie Partington, Julia Gardiner Tyler. Nick Number (talk) 16:41, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
    Looks like I've got some photos to take. Once I do, I'll upload them and post on the corresponding talk pages.ScoutHarris (talk) 17:46, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
    Cool, thanks for taking this on. Nick Number (talk) 18:30, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

    Green-Wood Cemetery

    Following ScoutHarris's lead, if anyone knows of pictures needed from Green-Wood Cemetery in Brooklyn, I'm there pretty often (it's a big bird hotspot). I suspect it's pretty well covered on-wiki already, but just in case... :) — Rhododendrites \\ 17:33, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

    Here are some candidates: Catharine Lorillard Wolfe, Mary Young Cheney Greeley, Harriet Burton Laidlaw, Louisine Havemeyer, Emma Howson, Mary Corinna Putnam Jacobi, Laura Jean Libbey, Margaret Mitchell (actress), Violet Oakley, Mary White Ovington, Georgiana Wilmerding Phelps, Polly Platt, Emma Marcy Raymond, Alice Hathaway Lee Roosevelt, Julia Sand, Margaret Sanger, Nancy Spero, Emma Stebbins, Mary Elizabeth Tillinghast, Camilla Urso, Caroline Berryman Spencer, Anna Case, Kate Claxton, Mabel Smith Douglass. Nick Number (talk) 18:30, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
    @Rhododendrites: Based on Green-Wood's article, there's also: Elizabeth Cushier, Georgia Engelhard, Genevieve Hecker, Grace Webster Haddock Hinsdale, Florence La Badie, Lola Montez, Mary Ellis Peltz, Martha Bulloch Roosevelt (has the chapel but not the grave), Clara Harrison Stranahan, Matilda Tone, and Fanny White. Not sure if any of the graves are on commons and just haven't been added to en wiki. Had some of Nick Number's names on my list too lol. How did you generate your list @Nick Number:? --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 18:40, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
    I went through Category:Burials at Green-Wood Cemetery and then checked Commons for existing photos. There is one for Florence La Badie. Nick Number (talk) 19:59, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
    Ahh okay. I updated the category based on my list. Thanks! --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:40, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
    Thanks both. I've cross-referenced this list with the Green-Wood Cemetery database. A few of them were categorized without a citation and are not on the official website. I was able to find a few others based on other names. I created a list with the lots/sections (it's a big place). Here's hoping the heat wave/storms in NY end soon. :) — Rhododendrites \\ 21:28, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
    Category: