Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 17:41, 28 September 2019

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Yogurt article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7Auto-archiving period: 2 months

Template:Vital article

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Food and drink Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Food and drink, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of food and drink related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Food and drinkWikipedia:WikiProject Food and drinkTemplate:WikiProject Food and drinkFood and drink Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Food and Drink task list: edit history watch purge To edit this page, select here Here are some tasks you can do for WikiProject Food and drink: Help bring these Top Importance articles currently B Status or below up to GA status: Agaricus bisporus (i.e. mushroom), Beef, Bread, Curry, Drink, Food, Ham and eggs, Soy sauce, Sushi, Yogurt Bring these Top Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Beer, French cuisine, Sugar Bring these High Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Apple, Burger King, Fish Participate in project-related deletion discussions. Delete unrelated trivia sections found in articles. Please review WP:Trivia and WP:Handling trivia to learn how to do this. Add the {{WikiProject Food and drink}} project banner to food and drink related articles and content to help bring them to the attention of members. For a complete list of banners for WikiProject Food and drink and its child projects, select here. Provide photographs and images for Category:Misplaced Pages requested images of food Consider joining this project's Assessment task force. List any project ideas in this section Note: These lists are transcluded from the project's tasks pages. Template:WikiProject Breakfast

This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination. Move logs: Yogurt Yoghurt Discussions: See also Talk:Yogurt/yogurtspellinghistory RM #1, Yoghurt -> Yogurt, Abandoned discussion; no consensus, 12 May 2005, Talk:Yogurt/Archive 1#Requested move RM #2, Yoghurt -> Yogurt, Move to Yogurt, 10 October 2006, Talk:Yogurt/Archive 2#"buttermilk" as yogurt? RM #3, Yoghurt -> Yogurt Revisited, no consensus, defaulting to keep at Yoghurt., 26 October 2006, Talk:Yogurt/Archive 2#Requested move revisited RM #4, Yoghurt -> Yogurt , No consensus, 21 May 2007, Talk:Yogurt/Archive 3#Naming poll RM #5, Yoghurt -> Yogurt , "Not enough consensus"; page not moved, 21 June 2009, Talk:Yogurt/Archive 5#Requested move RM #6, Yoghurt -> Yogurt , Delisted, 6 July 2009, Talk:Yogurt/Archive 5#No Consensus RM #7, Yoghurt -> Yogurt, No consensus, 27 October 2011, Talk:Yogurt/Archive 5#Move page to Yogurt RM #8, Yoghurt -> Yogurt, Moved, 10 December 2011, Talk:Yogurt/Archive 6#Move page to yogurt

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Yogurt article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7Auto-archiving period: 2 months

This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Reversion of edit

Yesterday I added much information to the article, and it was all reverted by User:Zefr. Here are the two paragraphs that I modified:

A 100-gram serving of plain Greek yoghurt from whole milk is 81% water, 9% protein, 5% fat and 4% carbohydrates. In addition to the 406 kilojoules (97 kcal) of food energy supplied by the protein, fat, and carbohydrate, there is food energy supplied by the lactic acid. The carbohydrate in yoghurt is in the form of lactose (milk sugar) and galactose and glucose which are produced when the lactose is hydrolyzed. The amounts of lactose and lactic acid vary, depending on the fermentation conditions, the amount of dry milk added, and whether the yoghurt is filtered. A 1982 study found that lactose content dropped from just under 5% in the milk to around 2.4% during the first day (including a 3- to 4-hour fermentation at 43° or 44°C), and decreased to 2.3% after 10 more days of storage (temperature not stated), at which point the galactose content was 1.3%. An Australia-New Zealand government website gives a figure of 1.5 g lactic acid per 100-mL serving. As a proportion of the Daily Value (DV), a serving of yogurt is a rich source of vitamin B₁₂ (31% DV) and riboflavin (23% DV), with moderate content of protein, phosphorus and selenium (14 to 19% DV; table).

Although yogurt is often associated with probiotics having positive effects on immune, cardiovascular or metabolic health, as of 2011 there was insufficient high-quality clinical evidence to conclude that consuming yogurt lowers risk of diseases or improves health. Research published in 2014 studying Swedes over a 20-year period found that women who ate lots of cheese and yoghurt had lower death rates and lower rates of bone fractures than those who consumed low amounts of dairy products, but those who drank three glasses of milk a day had higher rates. The paper also cites other research showing an association between high intake of fermented milk products and lowered cardiovascular risk, but an increased risk of cardiovascular disease and diabetes among those with a high intake of unfermented milk.

I added the last two sentences. I also added this paragraph:

Yoghurt has been found to decrease or eliminate symptoms of lactose intolerance. The 1982 study mentioned earlier found that lactose-intolerant subjects had abdominal distress and diarrhea after consuming 500 mL of milk but had no symptoms after consuming the same volume of yoghurt.

and I added a table of nutritional data for normal yoghurt, in addition to the table that was already there for Greek-style yoghurt.

Zefr claims in his edit comment that "Previous nutrition version was accurate; rv content per WP:NOTTEXTBOOK; addition to health effects section not based on WP:MEDRS."

I don't contest that the previous nutrition version was accurate (if he means the nutrition data on Greek yoghurt), and I left it (even though I don't think we should have a table on Greek yoghurt). I strongly disagree that the information I added was "textbook" information which should not be mentioned! These are exactly the issues that people want to know about — to what extent the lactose is converted into lactic acid, and what the effects of health are. I did all this research yesterday because I came to Misplaced Pages to find out the answers to these questions, and the information was not here. And why does Zefr think he knows that all my references are unreliable? The Journal of Dairy Science and the British Medical Journal are reputable sources after all. Eric Kvaalen (talk) 05:55, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

References

1. ^ "NUTTAB 2010 Online Searchable Database". Food Standards Australia and New Zealand. Click on "Search for a food", then type in "yoghurt", then click on "Yoghurt, natural, regular fat (~4%)".
2. "How much lactose is in yogurt?". Quora.
3. ^ Livia Alm (Mar 1982). "Effect of Fermentation on Lactose, Glucose, and Galactose Content in Milk and Suitability of Fermented Milk Products for Lactose Intolerant Individuals". Journal of Dairy Science. doi:10.3168/jds.S0022-0302(82)82198-X.
4. El-Abbadi, Naglaa Hani; Dao, Maria Carlota; Meydani, Simin Nikbin (2014-05-01). "Yogurt: role in healthy and active aging". Am J Clin Nutr. 99 (5 Suppl): 1263S – 70S. doi:10.3945/ajcn.113.073957. ISSN 1938-3207. PMID 24695886.
5. Astrup A (2014). "Yogurt and dairy product consumption to prevent cardiometabolic diseases: epidemiologic and experimental studies" (PDF). Am J Clin Nutr. 99 (Suppl 5): 1235S – 42S. doi:10.3945/ajcn.113.073015. PMID 24695891. {{cite journal}}: External link in |format= (help)
6. Gijsbers L, Ding EL, Malik VS, de Goede J, Geleijnse JM, Soedamah-Muthu SS (2016). "Consumption of dairy foods and diabetes incidence: a dose-response meta-analysis of observational studies". Am J Clin Nutr. 103 (4): 1111–24. doi:10.3945/ajcn.115.123216. PMID 26912494.
7. Rijkers GT, de Vos WM, Brummer RJ, Morelli L, Corthier G, Marteau P; De Vos; Brummer; Morelli; Corthier; Marteau (2011). "Health benefits and health claims of probiotics: Bridging science and marketing". British Journal of Nutrition. 106 (9): 1291–6. doi:10.1017/S000711451100287X. PMID 21861940.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
8. Karl Michaëlsson; et al. (Oct 2014). "Milk intake and risk of mortality and fractures in women and men: cohort studies". British Medical Journal. doi:10.1136/bmj.g6015. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |last1= (help)
9. Andy Coghlan (Oct 28, 2014). "Guzzling milk might boost your risk of breaking bones". New Scientist.

Briefly, the two main objections to your edit were: 1) the discussion about lactic acid and its metabolism having food energy, and the discussion that followed about galactose, fermentation, etc., were over-detailed (WP:NOTTEXTBOOK) and an example of undue weight for a sideline topic having no precedence in nutrition, WP:WEIGHT; 2) your other additions about a) consumption of dairy products affecting death rate and bone fractures, b) disease risk in people consuming unfermented milk, and c) lactose intolerance, are not generally accepted as scientifically established facts, and there are no MEDRS-quality reviews supporting such claims. Regarding your statement that Misplaced Pages should provide answers to all questions, refer to the topics under WP:NOTEVERYTHING. --Zefr (talk) 15:29, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

E - Not a question of the quality of an individual clinical trial, nor the journal it was published in. The Misplaced Pages policy on medical & health issues is to not cite these at all. Instead, use reviews, systemic reviews, meta-analyses and government or organization position papers. Hence Z's mention of a desire for MEDRS-quality reviews. David notMD (talk) 19:05, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Added lactose intolerance back in, by copying from the lactose intolerance article including ref. --Ne0 (talk) 10:32, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Comparison of Milk and Yogurt nutrition

The article states "The above shows little difference exists between whole milk and yogurt made from whole milk with respect to the listed nutritional constituents. The differences may be explained as a result of testing the product after draining liquid whey from the yogurt thereby changing the percentage of that constituent in the final product." However, this does not seem to apply to cholesterol which is more than halved in the yoghurt. is this correct and if so, what is the explanation as cholesterol levels in food are of significance. Stub Mandrel (talk) 18:23, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Good eye to catch this, Stub Mandrel. The entry for cholesterol content in the table cell for yogurt is in error. The editor entered the 11% DV, not the cholesterol mg amount which is 32 mg per cup (24 mg per cup of whole milk with 3.25% milk fat). Checking the two references from the Conde Nast Nutritiondata.com tables (select 1 cup from pick list for amount) will show you the actual reports. Thanks. --Zefr (talk) 22:07, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, I see you have amended the table. Stub Mandrel (talk) 19:03, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Commercial Yogurt

Two types of Yogurt are supported by Codex Alimentarius for import and export.

1. Pasteurized Yogurt (officially Heat Treated Fermented Milk), is Yogurt pasteurized to kill all bacterias(including Probiotics).
2. Probiotic Yogurt (labeled as Live Yogurt or Active Yogurt), is Yogurt pasteurized to kill all bacterias, and Lactobacillus added in measured units before packaging.
   • Yogurt probiotic drink (categorized as Probiotics), is Yogurt pasteurized to kill all bacterias, and Lactobacillus added in large quantity before packaging. Example: Yakult

Research suggests Homemade Yogurt and Live Yogurt are much more beneficial than 'Heat Treated Fermented Milk' (Pasteurized Yogurt).

So User:Zefr, which sections are poorly referenced ? --Ne0 (talk) 05:16, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

References

1. ^ Codex Alimentarius Yogurt rules, FAO
2. AboutYogurt.com
3. Comparison of yoghurt, heat treated yoghurt, milk and lactose effects on plasmid dissemination in gnotobiotic mice
4. Assessment of the Benefits of Live Yogurt: Methods and Markers for in vivo Studies of the Physiological Effects of Yogurt Cultures

Hello Ne0Freedom. The FAO downloaded PDF is from 1999 and is not useful for an online encyclopedia. A more recent web version is preferred, but I was unable to find a suitable WP:RS source. The About Yogurt website is not really a WP:SECONDARY source and has promotional, non-NPOV content. The other two refs are from animal research which is not WP:MEDRS-quality for a food article. --Zefr (talk) 13:52, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

yes, apparently the original UN decision for this was made in 1999, but it is still relevant today. We can cite more recent books( p159) or individual government regulations, as secondary sources.

AboutYogurt.com is a website from the National Yogurt Association, referred to by many books( p159) for Yogurt purchase decisions. Many websites refer to "Live & Active Cultures", promoted by National Yogurt Association, and mentioned in AboutYogurt.com. We can cite those books or websites as tertiary sources.

For WP:MEDRS, we can cite secondary sources (because they are usually pay-walled). --Ne0 (talk) 05:45, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Infobox

@Akocsg: There is no need to give an WP:UNDUE weight to Turkey in the infobox. According to the history section, yogurt originated in Mesopotamia 7000 years ago. If i'm not mistaken, you're the same user who tried to claim that Azerbaijanis are of Turkish origin while numerous reliable sources support the fact that they're of Iranian origin. I would suggest you to desist from irredentist editing. Thanks.---Wikaviani 23:36, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://lbbulgaricum.bg/en/history-of-the-bulgarian-yoghurt/. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)

For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Misplaced Pages takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Sam Sailor 11:25, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Trolls vandalizing this page

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Yogurt&diff=prev&oldid=918280143 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.242.95.229 (talk) 17:40, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

• All unassessed articles
• B-Class Food and drink articles
• Top-importance Food and drink articles
• WikiProject Food and drink articles
• Misplaced Pages articles that use American English