Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 22:59, 16 December 2019

Please note, there were 4 Delete votes and 1 Keep vote before anyone was guided here via social media. Snoog's count is purposely off (is there even 7 delete votes currently?) Also note, that Snoog argues Kyle is not relevant enough WHILE labeling Secular Talk Reddit & Feel The Bern Reddit as "Fringe Left". There is clearly political biased involved here.

Current Keep: 30

Current Delete: 5 '

• Keep Kyle has over 700,000 subscribers and millions of views on the largest online

video platform(YouTube). He started a political organization(Justice Democrats) that helped people get elected to the United States congress. He's appeared on Joe Rogan multiple times. If an obscure congressional candidate from 2008 named Mike Montagano(who lost his race) gets to still have a Misplaced Pages page, then Kyle is more than qualified to have his own.

Andy: Show me on the doll where Kyle touched you, Snooganssnoogans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:7860:5D00:4CDE:E79D:13B9:E0D5 (talk) 22:25, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Damian: Kyle is a real person with an important voice in the political world regardless of your political view. He has been a part of many reputable pages, videos, podcasts, events, and more for many years. His page should be kept.

I agree to the commentator below. It absolutely makes no sense whatsoever to delete this page. He is under political assault. Misplaced Pages should show up, stand by, and protect a courageous young independent journalist like him, who stands for universal healthcare, living wage, ending wars, green new deal and more.

It would not make sense to delete Kyle’s wiki page. He is hugely relevant.

Why is it that the people for deleting his wiki seem to be politically biased against Kulinski? One of these people even linked Kulinski's Twitter (which shows his large following, notability). Why does this wiki editor suddenly delete the opinions of people coming here to discuss if it should be deleted or not? ...biased. That's not what wiki is supposed to be. Shouldn't everyone be counted?

Keep. The Hill, a mainstream media source, does articles on him and interviews him all the time. For instance; https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/454611-progressive-activist-sanders-at-his-best-when-hes-an-angry-old-man

The people suggesting this for deletion are doing it simply because they disagree with his politics. You can’t dispute his relevance. His YouTube shows get hundreds of thousands of views daily. More people are watching him than are watching Anderson Cooper. Gonna delete his page too?

Jakob: By the way, he is the founder of Justice Democrats, a massively influental political movement within the democratic party which recruited AOC to run for congress, and it's just gaining steam.

Matthew: Kyle is real, relevant, and legitimate. There is no reason to delete his page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.211.7.29 (talk) 21:41, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Steven: Kyle has hosted Secular tTalk for years and has been a constant source of unbiased, fact based, policy driven news. This is an attack by corporate media in hopes of silencing true progressive views. Deleting this page would be a terrible judgement call.

Tony: Kyle is a lot better than what you see in today's MSM. Not only that, some of the people sitting in Congress today (AOC, Ilham Omar etc.) are partly because of him. Disagree with him all you want but you can't deny the influence he's had.

Joe: He has over 500K subscribers and was a co-founder of Justice Democrats, the organization that got AOC, Ilhan Omar, and Rashida Tlaib elected. Deleting his page makes no sense.

Sam: This request to delete Kyle Kulinsky’s Wiki is a politically motivated attack and an affront to free speech. I emphatically urge Misplaced Pages to keep his page!

Keep. He is important as a founder of Justice Democrats, and as a notable progressive voice. References to his being part of the "Fringe Left" are obviously biased, as has been noted above.

Would be absolutely ridiculous to delete Kyle Kulinski's page, he is fairly well known with over 700,000 subs on Youtube, over 200,000 followers on Twitter, and he is the co-founder of Justice Democrats (who sent Alexandria Ocasio Cortez to Congress). Keep him on.

Kyle’s perspective a welcome relief from the corporate drivel on TV. I don’t agree with him on everything, but he puts his money where his mouth is by logically debating his position in the marketplace of ideas which both liberals and conservatives claim to love. The fact that some want to turn one of the biggest progressive voices on Youtube into an un-person on wikipedia is testimony to people being unwilling or scared to debate his ideas. It’s truly sad.—PandaDog

Keep, Kyle is very honest and up front with his opinions and while not everyone agrees, he is very willing to debate and hurts no one. The only people who want this wiki to be deleted is someone who is too scared to face an opinion that is not their own, and should just be ashamed of themselves. As long as it doesn’t promote violence, everyone’s voice should be heard. -Dms903

Please keep Kyle's wiki. He is a very honest and relevant commentator on political issues. He has a very wide viewer base. I see this campaign to delete his wiki as nothing more than a partisan effort to effect his popularity.

Kyle Kulinski

• Articles for deletion/Kyle Kulinski
• Articles for deletion/Kyle Kulinski (2nd nomination)
• Articles for deletion/Kyle Kulinski (3rd nomination)
• Articles for deletion/Kyle Kulinski (4th nomination)

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Kyle Kulinski (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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There is very simply no RS coverage of this person. We cannot write a Misplaced Pages article about a subject if all the sources are non-RS and primary sources. There are currently three RS in the article... none of them even mentions Kulinski once. In previous AfD discussions in 2017 (which concluded as 'no consensus', there was a sense among some 'keep' votes that this individual was 'about to hit it big'. However, there is no RS coverage either before or after 2017 to substantiate that this individual is notable. His main claim to fame appears to be that he runs a YouTube channel and co-founded Justice Democrats, but even RS who cover the Justice Democrats don't mention Kulinski. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 14:06, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Journalism-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 14:16, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 14:16, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

• Update (16 Dec): The subject of the article is directing his followers to this AfD page, and is literally instructing them on how to object to the deletion. Fringe-left subreddits are also directing people here. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 21:21, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

• Before Reddit and the subject directed people here, the tally was 7 delete votes, 0 keep votes. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 21:27, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Response to Above Comment It's not clear why this is relevant. The subject of the article is under no obligation to not report on the fact that his Misplaced Pages page is being considered for deletion. Furthermore, supporters of said subject have every right to make their opinion heard in this discussion, especially if they are established Misplaced Pages editors who did not make their accounts today. If your concern is "bias", well, to be frank, everyone here is "biased". We all have an opinion. The point is whose opinion is backed by the most sound argument, and in this case it's obviously the Keep side. CompactSpacez (talk) 22:46, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

 Comment: If deleted this would be a red link on a draft talk page, some Super Progressives merchandise featured this journalist together with Jimmy Dore, Iversen, Gabbard, Williamson, Sanders, AOC, et al. (clearly no RS). –84.46.52.75 (talk) 14:24, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

• Delete a non-notable political commentator.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:34, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
• Delete and flush. There must be substantial, independent, RS coverage. There is not. Notability is not established. End of story. -- BullRangifer (talk) 23:16, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

The linking of that video is unprofessional and rude. CompactSpacez (talk) 22:47, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

• FWIW, I've added 1.5 RS. –84.46.53.86 (talk) 11:11, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

• Merge/Redirect to The Young Turks#TYT_Network (and cite a primary or secondary source next to the sentence on said article which mentions Kulinski) if notability cannot be established. Otherwise, if and only if reliable, secondary sources are added to establish notability, then obviously I'd switch to keep.  Vanilla  Wizard  💙 13:47, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
• Delete When there are too few secondary sources to write an informative article, it is a disservice to both readers and the subject to have one. TFD (talk) 03:57, 14 December 2019 (UTC)
• Keep Of course keep he literately spoke to Bernie Sanders and had multiple interviews on fox news. He is also one of the founders of Justice Democrats. User:11S117 (talk) 7:30, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

• Speaking to one presidential candidate and appearing on Fox News does not make someone notable. Or at least not in the eyes of any RS who have not deemed him worthy of any coverage. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 19:51, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

There's a number of issues here. First, what is an RS? You seem to have this idea that only corporate, for-profit, billionaire-owned media is "reliable". Naturally, the corporate media does not report on anti-corporate, anti-establishment folks who fight for the people, like Kyle. That's by design, and to be expected. Second, Kyle has been reported on by RS media, even using your own definition of "RS". For instance, see this or this or this. Lastly, if appearing on Fox doesn't make one notable, nor does having a major presidential candidate do an interview on your show and having the press secretary of said candidate call you the most popular YouTube host on the left, what does? What standard do you have? Is Fox News also not a reliable source? Well, I'm not the biggest fan of Fox News, certainly, but I would love to see the official Misplaced Pages edict that Fox is unreliable. CompactSpacez (talk) 22:59, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

• Delete - run of the mill podcaster/YouTuber/political activist, whose connections to famous people does not confer notability on him. I'm friends with over a dozen people with articles on Misplaced Pages, but that doesn't make me notable. I tried to shake hands once with a presidential candidate, yoohoo! Getting interviewed, or interviewing someone on Fox News -- a self-named "entertainment" channel -- does not make one a news-maker. I was a Democratic committee person in New York state, so what? Go ahead, Google me! I'm not (yet) notable, and neither is this guy. Bearian (talk) 19:24, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
• Keep Kulinski co founded Justice Democrats - the organization responsible for getting Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Ilhan Omar, among others, elected to congress. He's also one of the largest and most influential progressive voices across social media. Deleting his Misplaced Pages page would be indicative of a bias against New Media. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrpengo88 (talk • contribs) 21:20, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

• This editor had not edited in 6 years before making this edit^ shortly after Reddit directed people here. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 21:23, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Snoog this was a "Keep" before Kyle posted on Twitter... You're not doing your job correctly. Keep, he has nearly 1 million subscribers to his channel, defeats major news networks in key demographics, founded the political group that helped get one of the most influential Congress people in America elected

Why is he up for deletion? He is much more legitimate than Dave Rubin or any other right-wing host. If Hannity and O'Reilly have a wiki page, Kyle should definitely have one because he's been wrong very little compared to these guys who lie or say inaccurate things all the time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:9001:F08:A800:C0D4:FB22:85B2:88E5 (talk) 21:17, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Please do not remove Kyle.

Do not remove this page. Kyle has hundreds of thousands of followers and he has millions of views on YT alone. I reapeat: do not remove. Also, worth noting is that if somebody's standard for an RS source is an organization like CNN or Fox News, it's a complete joke.

Kyle is relevant enough to deserve a Misplaced Pages page

DONT REMOVE THIS PAGE

The subject meets Misplaced Pages’s notability guidelines. Should not be removed. Kyle is an active journalist and political commentator with thousands of viewers/listeners daily. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:A601:A1B6:F000:E9B7:2632:B029:6CBB (talk) 21:02, 16 December 2019 (UTC) Don’t delete Kyle’s page. He’s very much active and one of the most prominent online political voices — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.207.201.190 (talk) 21:04, 16 December 2019 (UTC) Why would you delete this icon and pillar of progressive policies and objective goodness in this world.

Strong should not be removed. Kyle is a cofounder of Justice Democrats and one of the most influential voices in independent media.

Do not delete Kyle.

Keep the page, delete unnecessary/informal information or comments such as "Kyle is a bad ass. Citation not needed". Besides that, Kyle is a notable and credible political commentor and deserves a Misplaced Pages page.

There is no rational reason to delete Kyle Kulinski’s page. He is still prominent as a radio host and YouTube personality. Unless that changes, he belongs here for those who seek more information about him, to better understand his commentary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1017:B820:2802:317F:4EC1:D687:C696 (talk) 21:07, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

I agree with all the above. Do not delete!

Hundreds of thousands of people look to Kyle for news and political commentary. He is an expert and knows what he's talking about. This should not be removed by any logic.

Do not delete, Kyle is a journalist youtube show host.

Kyle has over 500 thousand YouTube subscribers and has had guest appearances on major cable networks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:8D80:4E0:5AE5:998C:C7D0:A0D:CBC4 (talk) 21:11, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Absolutely do not delete this page. This political commentator is as relevant as any other political commentator on any social media platform. He's literally the co-creator of Justice Democrats which spawned political progressive newcomers such as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. In no way should this page be deleted.

Do not delete. This is a valid page as is Kyle. This page does not fit into the deletion policies advocated by your site, and instead might be a targeted front based on his anti establishment views that has riled some people in mainstream politics.

please don't delete this. this person had made many contributions just by being on YouTube.The canoe l value doesn't come just from the people he knows. he recognized for his accomplishments on the left.That makes him notable. if Tucker Clarkson Carlson is notable them so is he. any YouTuber over 100,000 subscribers should be considered a notable achievement. YouTube recognizes this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.245.9.142 (talk) 21:24, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Please do not remove this page. Kyle has a lot of fans and we would like to be able to recommend his channel to others. This page helps others be able to quickly find out who he is and what he’s done in his career.

Do not remove this page. For all of the reasons everyone has mentioned here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.104.229.79 (talk) 21:26, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

• Delete. Kulinsky is not covered in significant detail by reliable sources. The closest he comes is getting mentioned in passing by sources talking about the founding of Justice Democrats. If a redirect is chosen instead of deletion, the redirect should point to Justice Democrats. Binksternet (talk) 21:28, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

The fact that deletion is even considered is weird and oddly suspicious with respect to the current news involving his reveal of a dishonest #nytimes article. Kyle Kulinski is a political figure on social media. He is regularly invited for his analyses in various media outlets and online channels. His YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/SecularTalk has 766k subscribers.

• Keep. When you consider how many trivial actors/actresses, vapid models, third-rate rappers, silly wrestlers etc. have long, detailed articles, it seems rather odd that this one should be nominated for deletion. WQUlrich (talk) 21:46, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

• Keep: Kyle has over half a billion views on youtube, over 700K subscribers and is the co-founder of Justice Democrats the progressive group that helped to get many influential members of congress elected such as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Rashida Talib, and Ilhan Omar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Matthew.Esco (talk • contribs) 21:56, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

• Keep: I'm curious as to what the standards of notability are for a Misplaced Pages article to be kept up. He is a rather large component of left-wing new media with a large following through his Youtube channel with over 750,000 subscribers, has been a commentator on various mainstream news outlets such as Fox News, CNN and The Hill, and as has been mentioned before, founded Justice Democrats along with Cenk Uygur. If Kulinski, arguably the most popular left-wing commentator on new media, isn't notable, then by the same token, are similar commentators such as Ben Shapiro, Steven Crowder and David Pakman not of notability? Or if they are of the notability requisite of a wikipedia article, what facets of their careers make them notable enough? It seems a bit off to me that a pundit of Kulinski's notoriety would not be of enough notability to have a wikipedia article. Additionally, I find the criticism of the lack of RS moreso a result of figures in New Media often having a lack of RS and Kulinski's lack of history on traditional news outlets resulting in a lack of RS rather than a supporting claim for the article's deletion through the aforementioned argument for a lack of notability.

I don't intend this as a polemic, but I find that the arguments for deletion are overly pedantic (specifically in regards to the "lack of notability" arguments) and come from a lack of understanding of New Media, especially in regards to pundits that don't have previous employment in more traditional media. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Theogonybyamillionstrokes (talk • contribs) 22:02, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

• Keep First of all: Kulinski even has articles in other languages. Deleting it here, while it is still up in other languages (where he arguably has much less influence) would be strange at the very least. Furthermore as others mentioned he is a founder of the Justice Democrats, interviewed Bernie Sanders, had several appearences on the Joe Rogan show, was a speaker during Politicon for multiple years and has one of the largest youtube channels amongst the (progressive) political commentators in the US. The channel is large enough so someone like me who is not from the US, with english as a second language and until recently not too much interest in US politics at some point found the channel. While you could argue, that these things by themselves don't have too much weight, I would say their combination certainly make up for it. I'm not really familiar with Misplaced Pages's deletion guidelines and precendences, but to me it doesn't look like he is "irrelevant" enough to be deleted. Tobias Xy (talk) 22:11, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

• Keep This is an obvious attempt to delegitimize independent media. Many YouTubers have their own Misplaced Pages pages. Cenk Uygur, for instance, had his own Misplaced Pages page at a time when his YouTube channel had far fewer subscribers than Kyle currently does. There is no "notability" issue here. I can scour through Misplaced Pages and find hundreds of articles on people far less notable than Kyle. Here's a simple example: Malabika Pramanik, a mathematics professor at my University. She has no "reliable" (TM) sources reporting on her, beyond one broken link and a single mention on an awards list on the Association for Women in Mathematics website. She doesn't have glowing NYT or WPost articles written about her. Yet she was still deemed (in my view, rightly) as deserving of a Misplaced Pages page. You can find many such articles throughout Misplaced Pages. Kyle's YouTube channel is huge, and he's personally had on numerous guests who no one would dispute are notable. Frankly, I think many editors here are likely older in age (40+) and have an antiquated view of "notability". These are not the 90s anymore. You do not need to be Wolf Blitzer for your political commentary to be relevant. This is 2019. People under 30 listen to men like Kyle, or Cenk, or Joe Rogan, or (on the other side of the spectrum) folks like Ben Shapiro or Nick Fuentes. The so-called "notable" corporate media shills (Rachel Maddows, Jack Tapper et al.) are irrelevant to them. CompactSpacez (talk) 22:22, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

• Keep Kyle has 750k subscribers and is pretty important so he does deserve an article of his own. He has co founded the Justice Democrats PAC which has helped get Alexandria Ocasio Cortez and many other congresspeople elected. He has also been on many legitimate news outlets and is quite influential on YouTube and Twitter, and for that reason, I vote to keep this article, it is absolutely ridiculous someone would say that this article should be deleted. Arthurcurrie (talk) 22:46, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

• Delete A Youtube personality inciting his fanboys to advocate for his wiki page to be saved warrant an immediate deletion. KeisezrG (talk) 22:57, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

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